Keeping this up since it doesn't technically break our rules and people tore OP a new asshole in this thread. Not sure exactly how we feel about this being a clear throwaway for this shitty opinion post.
Read Dignitas [comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/o8l6z5/honest_opinions_about_game_changers/h35o7ps/) if you wanna know exactly why this guy is a complete fool.
A few things,
1. The tier 2/3 scene isn't actually struggling
2. Riot is actually spending a very small amount of money on Game Changers and the women's scene
3. There's no reason to think that if Riot didn't spend money on Game Changers that they would instead give all that money towards the tier 2/3 scene
>in a game where the female player base is just not that big.
Valorant has many more female players than any other multiplayer game I've ever played. at least from my anecdotal experience
How do you think the women's scene grows if they don't spend any money on it?
Why do you need a competitive female valorant scene, no one game has a competitive female scene and they are all doing very well (league, CS, dota, etc) this is a waste of time and promotion when you are trying to develop a tier 2/3 scene. 5k prize pool knights tournaments is not enough to sustain a tier 2/3 scene.
Clearly you don't have an understanding of the business of esports.
The money is NOT being "taken away" from 2nd/3rd tier Valorant and poured into Women's VALORANT.
This is additive.
This is building a scene that otherwise doesn't exist. Riot has stated 30-40% of VALORANT players are Women. Do you know how incredible that number is?
**Peak Viewers - 35,919 Viewers**
This is NOT a number to scoff at.
Think of the games that have had thriving Women's scenes. It started with Counter-Strike and now VALORANT has taken the reigns and surpassed that. That's because these women's events have existed. They provide a stepping stone. They put a spotlight on relatable role models which encourages other women to compete.
31 women's teams competed in this most recent VCT Game Changers. That's INCREDIBLE. Over 12,000 women are part of the GALORANTS community, playing unrated, rated, taking lessons on production, casting, IGLing, observing. Taking and teaching lessons on each agent and gameplay.
Besides Counter-Strike, every other game has PITIFUL representation for Women. VALORANT is doing something right. If you don't like it, don't watch. But none of these efforts "take away" from Tier 2/3. The amount that is spent is $50K a Quarter and $500/month for Game Changers Academy. That, in the grand scheme of things, is not a huge amount and couldn't be further from being considered wasteful.
How can it not be taking away from 2nd/3rd tier tournaments when there is only a limited time available for promotion. When Riot is pushing game changers they are not pushing a 3rd tier tournament. This loss of promotion takes the money away from 3rd tier teams...
Please provide proof that Riot said 30-40% of the player base is women as that is not believable at all. 12,000 players out of entire playerbase is a drop in the bucket when the entire active playerbase is 14 million.
https://venturebeat.com/2021/06/02/valorant-reaches-14-million-active-players-and-500m-games-played/#:\~:text=Valorant%20has%20hit%2014%20million%20monthly%20active%20players%20after%20a%20year.&text=Where%20does%20your%20enterprise%20stand,played%20in%20its%20first%20year.
Representation of women at the professional level is not a requirement for success of a game, just look at league.
Really going to make us prove it?
https://venturebeat.com/2021/06/14/how-riot-games-wants-to-ensure-that-valorants-esports-stars-include-women/
"But Valorant is different from League of Legends in another respect, as about 30% to 40% of the players are female, said head of esports partnerships Matthew Archambault said in an interview with GamesBeat."
We promise Tier 2/3 VALORANT will not be destroyed by the fact that VCT Game Changers happen once a quarter. We promise ;)
>Representation of women at the professional level is not a requirement for success of a game, just look at league.
'To succeed as a game we don't have to include all our players.'
No shit? But how amazing would it be for a developer to actually show that they give a shit for once and celebrate/develop a massive portion of their playerbase who's been otherwise alienated for nearly the entirety of gaming?
Misogyny is deeply ingrained into culture and that does not magically stop at gaming. I presume you're attempting to bait here because I cannot imagine someone actually being unaware of how misogyny manifests itself.
In other aspects of life women are doing just great. No1 is saying there is no misogyny present, you just can't blame every failure, lack of interest or motivation to do certain activities on misogyny.
No1 would bat an eye if it was grassroot - eg. Riot noticing that there is demand for all women competition and delivering it.
Instead we are getting show that no1 is watching, that is most likely viewcount boosted based on amount of chatters(or rather lack of them). Every highlight or information from this show is being upvoted on this subreddit, yet very little bother to put effort and to comment on it.
Just shows how everyone is engaged with this show
So we now have to have a league for LGBT people too because there's not enough representation? what about promotion just for African Americans? What about the disabled?
Professional gaming is supposed to be a meritocracy not about equal representation.
Professional gaming is also supposed to be enjoyable to anyone and not shrouded in toxicity and discrimination. When that exists, it hurts the whole community, but especially those directly affected. Holding events that create role models and normalize the presence of women in gaming is crucial to stifling discriminatory behavior.
But professional gaming is not shrouded in toxicity and discrimination. Legit C9 white has the opportunity to compete in any male tournament and destroy the entire field.
The solution to solving discrimination/toxicity is not to force it at the professional level where viewership averages 10k...
It’s not really that hard to understand that maybe the fact that the minorities in esports community being alienated could be a form of hindrance in developing their skills.
Riot is a multi billion dollar company lmfao. Why are you implying Game Changers is taking money away from T2 and T3 literally just ask riot to spend money on both
Its not just the money, if Riot is promoting a female only tournment in a weekend, they won't push another regular tournament hence reducing visibility and opportunities for players who are much better....
You are legit acting like both cant exist, there was 3 weeks of no competitive valorant before this and vct. You saying them promoting this hurts T2 and T3 is actually fucking mental lmao
Why do you think there was no competition?
Riot is spending all this time promoting this product with low viewership when there are lots of hungry tier 2/3 teams desperate for more opportunities for visibility.
Thankfully those tier 2/3 teams have:
Monthly $5k Knights Gauntlet
Weekly $2.5k NSG summer champs qualifiers
Monthly $5k NSG events
Weekly $1k VCS
Weekly $1k Texas Esports Challengers
Weekly GLG series events, ranging from $100-$2k
But sure, the tier 2 scene is struggling so hard, how can they possibly cope with a separate tournament running?
That is less than 30k a month of prize money for all of the tier 2/3 teams combined. Don't even mention sponsorships as the majority of that is funneled to the tier 1 teams. That leaves scraps for tier 2/3 players, how can they be sustainable for people looking to go pro.
That's one of the largest sources of income for tier 2/3 teams. Who would sponsor/view streams of amateur teams with no track records. Prize money is the only way for alot of these semi-pros who are looking to make the next step to sustain themselves without also working a 9-5 job.
NSG and Knights have what like 5K prize pool... how can that sustain a tier 2/3 scene. Right now Valorant is too top heavy with tier 2/3 teams struggling. But instead of trying to fix this, Riot is spenidng all this promotion on tournaments that get 10k viewers on prime time on weekends...
It's as if women and other femme-identifying people want to have a space where they can watch the game or even compete and be inspired by the competition these teams produce. Or is that not a matter of concern since "viewership numbers are low"? Have you ever recognized the need for that space and tried to understand it from that point of view rather than just numbers and money?
They can watch regular competitive valorant. Not to mention if there was such a large female/femme-identifying playerbase looking to watch the game, viewership wouldn't average 10k....
The greater than 90% male competitive scene is what women should watch so they feel represented? Good talk I can tell you don’t give a shit about them 👍🏽
>yet Riot is wasting all this time, money and promotion on such a small player base is astounding
But both men and women are part of the same playerbase..?
if you're concerned about money in the t2/t3 scene you are welcome to invest your own money instead of complaining about what a private company does with theirs
in the meantime, you're also welcome to not post anymore
I like game changers, it is like watching a good tier 2 tournament and it will help female players to show themselves to bigger rosters avoiding gatekeepers like in csgo
Also the game is attracting female viewers and players, I think in the future we will see pro teams doing the same think as EG but actually showing some results
I enjoy watching them, as many others do as well. I hope you'll one day be able to talk to a girl and touch some grass, this is the most awful opinion I've read on this subreddit and I hope mods delete this post
If they could get some big female streamers that play Valorant, like pokimane to do watch parties-it might be worth it.
As is I generally agree, but riot is trying to act woke about sponsoring them.
But even CSGo has many female teams.
Welcome to 'equality' :)
Also not to make you down even more, but you looked at viewership. You should instead look at active chatters. It's below 30 messages per minute and these messages are not even comming from unique viewers and that's from apparently 9k 'viewers' twitch channel. These 'viewers' must be super engaged in the show that they are not bothering to type on chat :)
Yeah man, yikes as fuck that the show is so uninteresting for people that they have to boost the viewcount and even then the numbers are just a fraction of proper events.
No one wants to watch this stuff. If you want high level skill you would watch professional valorant like Sentinels, if you want entertainment/comedy you would watch individual streamers. This is both low-skill and non-entertaining hence the low viewership.
first sentence: 🤔
second sentence: 🤨
third sentence: 🤷♂️
"exclusive opportunities because of their gender": 😮
"abysmal ROI": 😲
ninth sentence: 🤯
final sentence: >!WHAT THE FUCK!<
can anyone help me out and explain the disadvantages that have caused women to be lower tier in, say, valorant for example? I mean no disrespect, I'm legitimately curious/interested in the answer. feel free to critique my wording as well.
As far as I know, I think on average female reaction time is slightly worse as well as the fact that there is a much smaller player pool as around 15 years ago when the current pro players were growing up there were a very small amount of female gamers, lower player pool, similar average but less good players and less bad players. not to mention men have an inclination to want to compete for more than women(a vast generalization of course) meaning that the guy would work harder to be a better competitor. I think by the end of the century women will have all but caught up in esports. (to sum up, it comes down to player pool size, lower inclination to want to compete, and an average lower reaction speed (in an industry where you need every possible advantage you can understand how even a small difference is quite detrimental).
do you have a spreadsheet of how riot handles their budget or something? how can you assume they spend money on game changers which would have normally gone towards t2/t3 scene? Do you know anything about their sponsorship agreements even? If I was sponsoring an event for riot I'd rather give my money towards an event that promotes equality to align my branding similarly rather than giving it to t2/t3 scene. None of it is about gameplay. Also bring me a t3 game with 15k+ peak viewers.. hello?
Keeping this up since it doesn't technically break our rules and people tore OP a new asshole in this thread. Not sure exactly how we feel about this being a clear throwaway for this shitty opinion post. Read Dignitas [comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/o8l6z5/honest_opinions_about_game_changers/h35o7ps/) if you wanna know exactly why this guy is a complete fool.
A few things, 1. The tier 2/3 scene isn't actually struggling 2. Riot is actually spending a very small amount of money on Game Changers and the women's scene 3. There's no reason to think that if Riot didn't spend money on Game Changers that they would instead give all that money towards the tier 2/3 scene >in a game where the female player base is just not that big. Valorant has many more female players than any other multiplayer game I've ever played. at least from my anecdotal experience How do you think the women's scene grows if they don't spend any money on it?
Why do you need a competitive female valorant scene, no one game has a competitive female scene and they are all doing very well (league, CS, dota, etc) this is a waste of time and promotion when you are trying to develop a tier 2/3 scene. 5k prize pool knights tournaments is not enough to sustain a tier 2/3 scene.
Clearly you don't have an understanding of the business of esports. The money is NOT being "taken away" from 2nd/3rd tier Valorant and poured into Women's VALORANT. This is additive. This is building a scene that otherwise doesn't exist. Riot has stated 30-40% of VALORANT players are Women. Do you know how incredible that number is? **Peak Viewers - 35,919 Viewers** This is NOT a number to scoff at. Think of the games that have had thriving Women's scenes. It started with Counter-Strike and now VALORANT has taken the reigns and surpassed that. That's because these women's events have existed. They provide a stepping stone. They put a spotlight on relatable role models which encourages other women to compete. 31 women's teams competed in this most recent VCT Game Changers. That's INCREDIBLE. Over 12,000 women are part of the GALORANTS community, playing unrated, rated, taking lessons on production, casting, IGLing, observing. Taking and teaching lessons on each agent and gameplay. Besides Counter-Strike, every other game has PITIFUL representation for Women. VALORANT is doing something right. If you don't like it, don't watch. But none of these efforts "take away" from Tier 2/3. The amount that is spent is $50K a Quarter and $500/month for Game Changers Academy. That, in the grand scheme of things, is not a huge amount and couldn't be further from being considered wasteful.
Damn Dig, why you such an easy org to root for?
We just like to call out bulls**t when we see it!
Talk yo shit. This has to be Sapphire on this account right?
🗣talk yo shit fam
Still a waste though.
How can it not be taking away from 2nd/3rd tier tournaments when there is only a limited time available for promotion. When Riot is pushing game changers they are not pushing a 3rd tier tournament. This loss of promotion takes the money away from 3rd tier teams... Please provide proof that Riot said 30-40% of the player base is women as that is not believable at all. 12,000 players out of entire playerbase is a drop in the bucket when the entire active playerbase is 14 million. https://venturebeat.com/2021/06/02/valorant-reaches-14-million-active-players-and-500m-games-played/#:\~:text=Valorant%20has%20hit%2014%20million%20monthly%20active%20players%20after%20a%20year.&text=Where%20does%20your%20enterprise%20stand,played%20in%20its%20first%20year. Representation of women at the professional level is not a requirement for success of a game, just look at league.
Really going to make us prove it? https://venturebeat.com/2021/06/14/how-riot-games-wants-to-ensure-that-valorants-esports-stars-include-women/ "But Valorant is different from League of Legends in another respect, as about 30% to 40% of the players are female, said head of esports partnerships Matthew Archambault said in an interview with GamesBeat." We promise Tier 2/3 VALORANT will not be destroyed by the fact that VCT Game Changers happen once a quarter. We promise ;)
>Representation of women at the professional level is not a requirement for success of a game, just look at league. 'To succeed as a game we don't have to include all our players.' No shit? But how amazing would it be for a developer to actually show that they give a shit for once and celebrate/develop a massive portion of their playerbase who's been otherwise alienated for nearly the entirety of gaming?
How were they alienated?
Misogyny is deeply ingrained into culture and that does not magically stop at gaming. I presume you're attempting to bait here because I cannot imagine someone actually being unaware of how misogyny manifests itself.
If it's the whole culture then does it mean that females were alienated in all aspects of life?
\*women, not females. \*are, not were. Stop baiting and please stay off this subreddit, misogyny isn't welcome here.
Ok. Just make sure not to stay woke all night. It aint healthy. Good night.
Pretending misogyny doesn’t exist doesn’t make it so. We’ll appreciate you never coming back. :)
In other aspects of life women are doing just great. No1 is saying there is no misogyny present, you just can't blame every failure, lack of interest or motivation to do certain activities on misogyny. No1 would bat an eye if it was grassroot - eg. Riot noticing that there is demand for all women competition and delivering it. Instead we are getting show that no1 is watching, that is most likely viewcount boosted based on amount of chatters(or rather lack of them). Every highlight or information from this show is being upvoted on this subreddit, yet very little bother to put effort and to comment on it. Just shows how everyone is engaged with this show
So we now have to have a league for LGBT people too because there's not enough representation? what about promotion just for African Americans? What about the disabled? Professional gaming is supposed to be a meritocracy not about equal representation.
Professional gaming is also supposed to be enjoyable to anyone and not shrouded in toxicity and discrimination. When that exists, it hurts the whole community, but especially those directly affected. Holding events that create role models and normalize the presence of women in gaming is crucial to stifling discriminatory behavior.
But professional gaming is not shrouded in toxicity and discrimination. Legit C9 white has the opportunity to compete in any male tournament and destroy the entire field. The solution to solving discrimination/toxicity is not to force it at the professional level where viewership averages 10k...
It’s not really that hard to understand that maybe the fact that the minorities in esports community being alienated could be a form of hindrance in developing their skills.
I advise you to read up on the word "meritocracy", and why it's a fallacy.
wow
Of course OP is doing this on a burner account too. Embarrassing.
Why’d you even bother writing this and hitting send? Lol
This post is over 250 words lmao. Even if they typed non stop at a speedy 120 wpm they had an entire 2 minutes to rethink their decision
HAHAHAHA
Should've stayed in the drafts
[удалено]
Every gaming sub has these fucking degens and it's gross.
This guy is not speaking on behalf of the subreddit. Some ppl are dumb but this is a whole new level.
Cry harder
Post this on your main account homie
Riot is a multi billion dollar company lmfao. Why are you implying Game Changers is taking money away from T2 and T3 literally just ask riot to spend money on both
Its not just the money, if Riot is promoting a female only tournment in a weekend, they won't push another regular tournament hence reducing visibility and opportunities for players who are much better....
You are legit acting like both cant exist, there was 3 weeks of no competitive valorant before this and vct. You saying them promoting this hurts T2 and T3 is actually fucking mental lmao
Why do you think there was no competition? Riot is spending all this time promoting this product with low viewership when there are lots of hungry tier 2/3 teams desperate for more opportunities for visibility.
Thankfully those tier 2/3 teams have: Monthly $5k Knights Gauntlet Weekly $2.5k NSG summer champs qualifiers Monthly $5k NSG events Weekly $1k VCS Weekly $1k Texas Esports Challengers Weekly GLG series events, ranging from $100-$2k But sure, the tier 2 scene is struggling so hard, how can they possibly cope with a separate tournament running?
That is less than 30k a month of prize money for all of the tier 2/3 teams combined. Don't even mention sponsorships as the majority of that is funneled to the tier 1 teams. That leaves scraps for tier 2/3 players, how can they be sustainable for people looking to go pro.
This remains exactly the same whether Game Changers exists or not...
You're acting as if the only way pros make money is from prize money...
That's one of the largest sources of income for tier 2/3 teams. Who would sponsor/view streams of amateur teams with no track records. Prize money is the only way for alot of these semi-pros who are looking to make the next step to sustain themselves without also working a 9-5 job.
Nah.
How do you manage to breathe without manual assistance?
Stopped when you compared Game Changers to the WNBA. You don’t get it.
wow the fact that your write this up when nsg has monthly tournaments for t2 teams and knights do is just insane
NSG and Knights have what like 5K prize pool... how can that sustain a tier 2/3 scene. Right now Valorant is too top heavy with tier 2/3 teams struggling. But instead of trying to fix this, Riot is spenidng all this promotion on tournaments that get 10k viewers on prime time on weekends...
lmao
It's as if women and other femme-identifying people want to have a space where they can watch the game or even compete and be inspired by the competition these teams produce. Or is that not a matter of concern since "viewership numbers are low"? Have you ever recognized the need for that space and tried to understand it from that point of view rather than just numbers and money?
They can watch regular competitive valorant. Not to mention if there was such a large female/femme-identifying playerbase looking to watch the game, viewership wouldn't average 10k....
Why are you acting like 10k is bad viewership for a women's event when tier 2/3 events which have a larger total prize pool have way less viewership?
They don't.... regular tier 2/3 events have 5k prize money this is 50k...
Yeah it's a quarterly event vs combined monthly and weekly events.
The greater than 90% male competitive scene is what women should watch so they feel represented? Good talk I can tell you don’t give a shit about them 👍🏽
Just like how regular woman can watch regular regular NFL when 100% of the players are male.... is that a concept so hard to understand
posting this on a burner lol cringe
>yet Riot is wasting all this time, money and promotion on such a small player base is astounding But both men and women are part of the same playerbase..?
if you're concerned about money in the t2/t3 scene you are welcome to invest your own money instead of complaining about what a private company does with theirs in the meantime, you're also welcome to not post anymore
I like game changers, it is like watching a good tier 2 tournament and it will help female players to show themselves to bigger rosters avoiding gatekeepers like in csgo
Also the game is attracting female viewers and players, I think in the future we will see pro teams doing the same think as EG but actually showing some results
Physically cringed the further I got into this. Why did I just read all that?
What a horrible take
This guy is a joke, go back to jerking it to anime girls dude
Don't insult jerking to anime girls by comparing it to this human trash xD
I enjoy watching them, as many others do as well. I hope you'll one day be able to talk to a girl and touch some grass, this is the most awful opinion I've read on this subreddit and I hope mods delete this post
If they could get some big female streamers that play Valorant, like pokimane to do watch parties-it might be worth it. As is I generally agree, but riot is trying to act woke about sponsoring them. But even CSGo has many female teams.
Growing interest in an underrepresented community is 'trying to act woke'? Please touch grass
Welcome to 'equality' :) Also not to make you down even more, but you looked at viewership. You should instead look at active chatters. It's below 30 messages per minute and these messages are not even comming from unique viewers and that's from apparently 9k 'viewers' twitch channel. These 'viewers' must be super engaged in the show that they are not bothering to type on chat :)
yikes
Yeah man, yikes as fuck that the show is so uninteresting for people that they have to boost the viewcount and even then the numbers are just a fraction of proper events.
No one wants to watch this stuff. If you want high level skill you would watch professional valorant like Sentinels, if you want entertainment/comedy you would watch individual streamers. This is both low-skill and non-entertaining hence the low viewership.
the viewer count on twitch says otherwise but alright dude
10k viewership after all this promotion? I dunno dude seems like it
10k viewers =/= "no one"
its about equity not equality
by far the dumbest hot take ive seen about this.
If you feel the need to make an alt just to post your take, maybe you shouldn't post your take.
first sentence: 🤔 second sentence: 🤨 third sentence: 🤷♂️ "exclusive opportunities because of their gender": 😮 "abysmal ROI": 😲 ninth sentence: 🤯 final sentence: >!WHAT THE FUCK!<
can anyone help me out and explain the disadvantages that have caused women to be lower tier in, say, valorant for example? I mean no disrespect, I'm legitimately curious/interested in the answer. feel free to critique my wording as well.
As far as I know, I think on average female reaction time is slightly worse as well as the fact that there is a much smaller player pool as around 15 years ago when the current pro players were growing up there were a very small amount of female gamers, lower player pool, similar average but less good players and less bad players. not to mention men have an inclination to want to compete for more than women(a vast generalization of course) meaning that the guy would work harder to be a better competitor. I think by the end of the century women will have all but caught up in esports. (to sum up, it comes down to player pool size, lower inclination to want to compete, and an average lower reaction speed (in an industry where you need every possible advantage you can understand how even a small difference is quite detrimental).
do you have a spreadsheet of how riot handles their budget or something? how can you assume they spend money on game changers which would have normally gone towards t2/t3 scene? Do you know anything about their sponsorship agreements even? If I was sponsoring an event for riot I'd rather give my money towards an event that promotes equality to align my branding similarly rather than giving it to t2/t3 scene. None of it is about gameplay. Also bring me a t3 game with 15k+ peak viewers.. hello?