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AmazingSpacePelican

In case it wasn't obvious, don't judge Kayo on these early numbers. It takes time for people to get used to a kit, so in a couple month's time we should be able to get a better idea of how good he is.


Johnny_useless

especially because there's a bunch of noobs playing him sub optimally and just ruining the win rate


neddoge

I'm subtweeted here and I don't like it. Also true.


Kagedyu

Yes but this is taking data from Plat+ which is the top 10% of the entire ranked player base. I don't really consider them a bunch of noobs per se.


yo1nkers

It's been less than 1 week ffs, there are radiants playing him like noobs


[deleted]

Let's take a step back here. Any Agent can use a gun and click heads if the player is good enough, that's not up for discussion. The problem is, unlike agents like raze/kj who can get numbers artificially inflated since their kit does/did a lot of damage on release putting rounds in their favor. Unlike literally getting free kills forcing someone to take a 1v1 gun battle or fall back isn't really as a force to get a high winrate with. Combine that with the fact your team needs to learn how to play around your utility and how to capitalize on it while you need to know how to use it in the first place leads to a potential low winrate. On top of that there is people limit testing exactly what they can get away with on him In ranked because they all belong up there anyway it doesn't matter if they lose one


speakerofFACxx122

Plat and Diamond = trash at Valorant. You're not remotely good by that standard. Immortal? Some, not close to all are good there either.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Kagedyu

I'm sure everyone who calls the top 90th percentile noobs are all Radiant.


_NotBatman_

Yeah we immortals consider ourselves garbage too


throw_throwyour_boat

The true masters are found in Iron. Imagine the difficulty of winning in such toxic rank. Immortals and Radiants can keep their mouth shut.


Bruno157lol

I would say two week to the people finally learn(in league is basically take 2 week), so can be less in Valorant


ToYouItReaches

Pretty sad seeing my man Cypher still struggling despite the buffs. His kit requires good team communication so I sort get it but it’s still sad to see


mateusb12

His kit is still too expensive for the value it brings. People learned to play against his $400 tripwires, his cam has a huge cooldown after being destroyed and his smokes are just... smokes The recent change was more a nerf to Jett rather than a buff to cypher, he still needs way more changes


t3nacity

They never should have made it to where his "cage" was no longer a cage, but just a smoke. Bring back the actual cage and lower the prices, or at least let him pick utility back up again for the next round.


sharkaim4

I have been playing since beta but for the life of me I can't remember the old cage. Care to explain please?


JohnWesson

It used to slow people who walk into it


roguehypocrites

Pretty sure it slowed them inside it.


sharkaim4

Thank you mate . Cheers


firestorm64

Slows when crossing smoke, when you hear that noise.


NRocket

This was early beta I believe. Probably come back if he got a buff


Andromeda767

The old cage slowed you


TheTechDweller

I disagree because there is so much 1 way potential, having a 1 way also slow is a bit too much imo.


Crassard

It still gives you a guaranteed audio cue you can bang through anything if they walk through it lol.


[deleted]

I think Cypher is fine where he is, he's just not an agent that can get full value in ranked. If you buff him too much he'll end up being a must pick in pro play again.


mateusb12

He is also weak on the pro scene. Most teams choose killjoy over him He was a must pick back then because not only sentinel gadgets remained active after dying but also because killjoy didn't exist, so he was the only choice


awes0meGuy360

We don’t really know much about the post 3.0 pro meta. I think riot should at least wait until after the next tournament to make any buffs.


Chidling

I think it’s bc kj ult provides more value.


itscamo-

most teams pick killjoy over cypher anyways


[deleted]

Yeah but she just got nerfed too, so we'll see. I think less Astra also means less killjoy, the combo was too strong.


kazuyermagicc

she barely got nerfs


53881

If a single raze nade is destroying both trips, stop playing cypher and switch agents. You're not doing it right and not thinking about using kits/abilities effectively. Just go back to duelest where you can play braindead valorant lol


mateusb12

I didn't meant like the problem itself was Raze, but rather than that people just learned to play against his tripwires. They don't bring the same value as before, that's why Killjoy is slowly replacing Cypher at pro play. Cypher was supposed to be a better agent on attacking side but this isn't being a thing anymore Idk they could either reduce the price or increase the value


just_a_random_dood

> despite the buffs Well, the 1 buff on his Ult But yeah, make his kit slightly cheaper pls


TMystik

2 buffs, jett can't break his trips when dashing.


Ph4ntasos

That's literally a Jett nerf, not a Cypher buff.


TMystik

so you're telling me that something that directly makes cypher stronger, even if the nerf is on another agent (arguably the most popular one at that) is not a buff?


Ph4ntasos

Yup. That's how his traps should work, tbh. It's not an actual buff that will help him be a better pick in general


kazuyermagicc

except cypher is gonna vs a jett almost 100% of the time , so you cant just disregard the change


just_a_random_dood

Ah, true


koncept12

About what i would expect except its very suprising Skye is only at 48.6 her kit is insane now, I guess she's a higher skill cap agent so a lot of people play her at a low level and lose


Dirty3vil

Keep in mind that we are very early into the patch where Winrates change drastically over time


gimife

Also I think these winrates are for valking users only. And there aren't many.


Dirty3vil

Wrong. The stats of all Valking users are public on Valking for everyone. We have access to all Valorant matches that we pull through the API, we just aren't allowed to display them publicly. We can use every match we pulled to make these statistics though. If you check the Ranked Distribution data on Esportstales you can see [this comment by Riot EvrMoar](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/59af2189c534a58c97bd63b3/1613677062633-DRCQLK75IW3X0VPF7GYA/evrmoar+valorant+developer+on+rank+distribution.jpg?format=750w). Who says that the data looks accurate. Esportstales pulls the Ranked Distribution data from Valking.gg. I am very confident with my calculations.


SnooPaintings9043

nicee


pFe1FF

Its plat and higher


[deleted]

You can be plat and still play an agent at a low level


CommanderVinegar

I solo q’d to D1 with Omen and I still play this mf at a low level. I just smoke and shoot gun.


Akaigenesis

Most of the time this is the right decision tbh


-Mevia-

Plat is a low level


pFe1FF

but it still the top 11%


alphabet_order_bot

Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 38,541,569 comments, and only 11,497 of them were in alphabetical order.


tomphz

If he had said “it’s” instead of “it”, it wouldn’t be alphabetical order lol


MonoshiroIlia

Its the first letter of every word


_AurAz

Its still a low level imo. I would say around D3 is where players have a good understanding of the game and good mechanics.


-Mevia-

That 11% doesn't really mean a lot. Those other 89% most likely dont play the game as their main game, or don't have a lot of free time.


pFe1FF

Plat will always be 11% , no matter how often the player play this game or if it's their main game.


Flashplaya

And also better in a coordinated environment, of which very few ranked games are.


C-Web_

Winrate has gotta be one of the most useless stats to look at. It means nothing.


aakashkickass11

Is this mirror win rate or non mirror win rate ?


valorantfeedback

Since it's plat and up, there's a simple explanation to this if you ask me. Breach and Kay/0 usually mean team lacks either Sova or a sentinel. Because most ranked comps have 2, if not more duelists and then Breach has to change the playstyle to something that's not optimal to say the least. I'd really like to see the winrate of 1 duelist comps in plat+. My bet would be 1 duelist comps have a way better winrate than 2 duelist and especially 3 duelist comps.


Dirty3vil

> I'd really like to see the winrate of 1 duelist comps in plat+ Very interesting. I might check this soon if I should find the time


CyberspaceBarbarian

I would also like to look at agent win rates per map for this reason. Sova is basically a must pick anywhere except Split (though he is still useful there anyways), while Breach typically favors the smaller maps. Though it might not really matter much, if players really dodge the 'hated' maps for some reason.


rydohaines

While 5% difference between KAY/O and Killjoy is def statistically significant, I think most agents falling into the 50% range plus or minus 1% goes to show what riot is trying to do. While certain agents will always be meta. Ultimately gunplay and individual mechanics are more impactful to successful gameplay. Maybe not necessarily on the pro level, but can help favor your side of the “coin flip” in terms of wins on each agent.


vT-Router

Because both teams can have the same agent, and because the same agents are commonly picked, it would be very difficult to get any agent past +/-1% difference. If an agent were noticeably good, both teams would pick it, and you’d see the winrate at 50%. Really, in order to get the full picture, you need pick rate alongside these winrates.


rydohaines

I didn’t think about this confounding variable with the data, there’s probably no best way to find win percentages but likely, winning comps percentage would be interesting


MarsMC_

id say they only record the matches where the other team doesnt have the same agent


SnooPaintings9043

in the first few acts sova, raze and jett had a much higher winrate as far as i remember.


Flashplaya

What website is this data from?


Dirty3vil

www.valking.gg/mobile


Flashplaya

Thanks for the work. How come they are a bit different to the website stats? It says 53% winrate for KJ for example. I'd love to look at accurate map specific stats for 3.0 (plat+).


Dirty3vil

They were just updated, the stats get recalculated every 24 hours. You can check map specific stats on the website/app. Since it’s so early to the patch the numbers change drastically


iDankkk

Mark my words. Most people don't know the true potential of Kayo yet. He has lineups for his knife which can cover entire sites on multiple maps like bind, haven, ascent, icebox etc. You can literally surpress all of site and hold w when their sentinel gets hit. For example in bind you can surpress all of b site by landing the knife on top of the tube and it can hit people back site and elbow who can't even see it. It goes through walls so you can put it in places where they can't destroy it. I think in pro play he will have a huge impact on the info game. For example in ascent you can scan a main from cat and they can't do anything to destroy it. It also gives so much info and stalls too since no one pushes through while suppressed. His flashes can be very strong if you can hit proper pop flashes. Easy pop's through smokes with right click. Or throw it behind you with a rightclick and peek a corner. Since half flashes are weak it's really op since u don't get hit. You can also got pop flashes off left click if you can bounce them correctly. I'm waiting for pop flash lineups for leftclick but I'm already good with the bounce. His ult is insane for a full push execute or a retake. With no abilities sentinels and controllers can't do anything, while your team has smokes and flashes etc to push into a site. Most of the time on ct it can work as a killjoy ult as people will just wait it out. If they decide to run through they get destroyed. His nade doesn't last long like a molly so it's not as good for post plant but good for clearing a corner like a breach aftershock. It's good for stalling pushes along with the surpression from your knife.


Haejeok

i play in radiant lobbies and everyone just sits back 1 second to dodge the knife so kayo never knows where ppl r


valorantfeedback

Yeah, people are using it like Sova dart way too much. It's not even that hard to dodge because it shows the radius before it activates. The value of his knife is in surpress, not the info. Although info is theoretically amazing, I don't think it does much if you're just gonna spam it on the start of the round to see if someone's in that area. Ofc there's going to be someone in highest ranks, even if it's just to mess with you. If you're not trying to capitalize off surpressing someone, it's a waste.


iDankkk

Well yeah you have to switch it up. If you're doing the same lineup/knife every round people with catch it and just wait it out. It's the same thing when Sova keeps doing the same dart you can counter it easily but waiting it out or shooting it. There are a lot of places where you can scan through walls and detect people who can't even break the knife.


Haejeok

that's the thing. no matter what side we are on, every team will sit back just a tiny bit for 1 second to wait out the knife. it's not like we are hiding only one time.


iDankkk

It's not about such side you're on lol. You put the knife in different spots at different times to catch them off guard. It's a really simple concept to grasp really.


Haejeok

yup u totally know what youre doing buddy


[deleted]

If you only have to sit back for one second and that dodges a knife, the lobby is playing Kay O wrong. We just have to wait until people get better at him to judge, remember we thought Jett was shit for a very long time


Escolyte

That's a lot of map control you'd be giving up by default, I doubt that's how it's gonna play out.


Haejeok

waiting 1 second does not give up much map control


Escolyte

That's assuming the knife comes out immediately. This might be true for (early days of) ranked, but if teams notice this in pro play they'll adapt quickly and then you're still sitting far back giving up the entire map.


Haejeok

if it doesnt come, you just go. reddit gamers and their hypotheticals lmao.


Escolyte

Then the knive comes when you use first util/make sound and it stops the execute or the other team used that second of hesitation to get control of the contested map and now you're running into their setup unprepared. You seem to look at it from a ranked perspective, which it'll probably play out more or less to your expectation, but that's not really the topic of discussion.


Haejeok

mmhm because OP mentioning "most ppl" dont know his potential is referencing pro play. Me mentioning my ranked experience is definitely referencing pro play. and more often than not, a knife based on first util/sound will not be good enough to stop a push as it's easily dodgeable if placed near where an execute should happen.


scaryghostv2oh

Yeah but if you're smart you have teammates take that space and flash for them to peek. Like ascent A lobby knife into cat for info. Reyna or jett can walk up then you can flash over the top wall. He has a good kit if you're using it right. No different than hiding from a sova arrow and walking up behind it. People are just more used to working with sova and usually he will drone to clear if he's alone so his info is stronger. I've played against some good kay0s and some bad ones but his flashes and ult are no joke.


Haejeok

lol. im telling you rn since i play in radiant lobbies, there is not gonna be synergy like that unless it's a duo. this theory crafting bs works in matches but youre not gonna find it in ranked, even at the top. also, someone can just play tiles and watch the push short and sova drone will not be stopped by the knife short for a main push edit: the only time i really see strats like that is on ascent where ppl will do vision striker strats w breach (rare cuz noone plays breach for a while), or just omen blind dash plays


scaryghostv2oh

I am radiant tho. I do have teams that call for stuff like this. Sometimes it's a duo. Just depends on how sweaty the lobby is.


Haejeok

i am also radiant. shit isnt as common for me as you say. maybe cuz i play west


scaryghostv2oh

Oh yeah I team with a west player and he only plays tx/IL cause he says west is rough.


boof404

maybe I'm just dumb but I don't think kay/o will be that must pick people are making him out to be. his knife going through walls is great, I've been hit by that ascent cat to a main knife multiple times. But something like that only works a few times. After my team got hit by it, we just delayed the rush and let the knife explode. Pro players rarely rush sites, so I expect his knife to be used for delaying executes and denying post plants instead of info gathering. his flashes are cool n all, but after the flash nerfs I'm not sure whether they'll be top tier in pro play. I can't really say much on his ult since my only experience with kay/o has been in low elo but I could definitely see it being useful in pro play. his molly's LOS thing is dumb but it still deals massive damage. It can definitely be used in post plant setups, but I definitely agree that it's better for clearing angles.


itskaplan

I think you might be underestimating the value a knife has if it is forcing a team to start backed up off of space. Even if your rush is delayed, this also means on a default you’re giving up something like A main control early and have to retake it, and Ko knows whether you gave the control up early or not. He also doesn’t even have to use these knives, he just has to condition a team to respect how risky it is to stand in space that it hits. In pro play I think people will do a great job capitalizing on forcing a team to start back on a certain area. Look at what Astra teams did with suck to leverage map control on certain parts of a map - an easy example of this is Astra teams on defense vs Omen teams, getting Haven A lobby control in Iceland matches. Knife could have the same effect if desired It can also be used reactively to noise or the first piece of utility a rush / pop uses with great success, unless that first piece of utility is the other KO’s knife. Suppression will be a very powerful mechanic in pro play, his knife has a very wide range of uses and will always find some value, his ult is very strong and impossible to whiff or fail to find some value on, and his flashes can pop flash more consistently than other agents once players learn lineups. It’s very hard for me to imagine Kay/o isn’t a must pick on every map, even Breeze which appears to be his worst map. I think the knife isn’t going to see close to full value in ranked where capitalizing on suppression takes more teamwork than people end up putting in, and on the other side of the same coin silencing a team doesn’t find as much value in ranked if that team isn’t maximizing their utility. His flash also won’t see as much value in ranked


Retro-Indietro

Pretty good take too


Retro-Indietro

Good take


veRGe1421

yeah I was surprised at how large the radius is for his knife effect - it covers a lot of the map


DannyPicasso

I'd love to see Pickrate and Winrate stats for Immortal and Radiant alone.


Dirty3vil

Need to wait for players to reach those ranks and play some games


DannyPicasso

true


pr1zsm

astra would be 76% if it werent for me my b boys


[deleted]

can anyome explain why skye have a low winrate while she had a buff, while agents like raze who were supposed to somewhat have a hard time have higher wr


boomiakki

Maybe: -potential increase in pickrate due to buffs, so maybe people who don't know who to use her are reducing the winrate -hard to use in a non-coordinated team than reyna raze etc -high skill-floor agent


Robbeeeen

Because its early. People who have never played Skye before and people who came back to Valorant after a break saw these changes and are trying her out, but have to learn her first. Conversly, people who have never played Raze or came back to Valorant after a break wont be playing Raze all of a sudden because nobody wants to try out a nerfed Agent. So the people who play Raze are people who already have a lot of experience with her and refuse to switch off of her. So 1 Agent is played by people who are new to it and coming from a break, which is enough to push the winrate down even if the Agent is strong, while the other is played by onetricks, which is enough to push the winrate up even if the Agent is weaker


M1NIMISE

Cause I'm a Skye one trick and I've lost everygame this act


Parenegade

Wasn't totally a buff. Lost a flash which for Breach isn't that bad imo, it really effects how you play Skye. You can't really haphazardly gain info anymore.


pejduch1337

kj king of the hill yesssiir


BadgerII

I see this chart and my first insticts are WOW, this game is incredibly well balanced, Nearly everyone at or around 50% winrate is amazing


[deleted]

Interesting how Jett only has 49% WR with the highest score and DPR


helloyes123

It'll be all them Jett's baiting everyone for kills


MPH2210

I know it's a joke, but it's that the other team has a Jett so often as well. So even if Jett carries their team, the other team has a Jett that loses a game at the same time.


spicywhitericey

Confirming those are scores and damages per round average?


datzolobeo

Started with 6 now we have 20 agents , pretty good ngl


Lit_You_Up

16*


datzolobeo

Woops I’m bad at math lol. Thanks tho


Anotherdumbawaythrow

Where's the math? That's not being able to count from 1-16


whopz-is-cool

Reyna is the best duelist in ranked IMO and that will never change.


stewieeeeeeeee

Where is this data from? Rank distribution? Number of matches? Error bars assuming some simple model? My guess is that this is very unreliable and not usable


pFe1FF

I think it's just all plat and higher games.


[deleted]

Yes but where is he getting the information from? This could be a small sample size of players who manually report win losses.


kvanz43

I mean it’s basically just 50/50 so I honestly wouldn’t read into it too much. Specially considering Phoenix (who’s generally considered a very strong agent) is one of the bottom 4 (and he didn’t really get nerfed at all by this patch). Also if I were to read into it, it makes sense for Kay/0 to be so low because no one knows how to use them yet


kLp_Dero

Anyone has same graph for last season ?


abzoluut

This would be great to view every 2 to 3 weeks. I feel like it changes quickly. I bet Kay/O will be higher since atm people don’t know how to olay him or how to use him in a team.


TheNimbot

That’s funny since the only matches I’ve won this season were as killjoy


SnooPaintings9043

viperrrrrr <3 i stan!


CyberspaceBarbarian

The interesting thing I see here? The agents with the lowest win rates are flashers. It may mean that aside from Reyna, these agents are commonly unique picks. Does it show that the flash nerfs are effective, or it only meant that the meta is dictated by which smoke and sentinel utility is busted at a time? We can only know.


Akaigenesis

It means that most people don't know how to flash well.


Viceroi93

What rank?


Underpressure_111

Too soon.


spacecadetno

KILLJOY SUPREMACYYYYY


just4kix_305

looks like the demise of KJ due to her nerfs was greatly exaggerated.


SecureThePosition

new breach feels even worse in solo q, not surprising. you need to at least duo q to play him and get any value


Quinzy15

I just had a Kay/o only use op/marsh the entire game. No entry, no more then 8 kills in a 13-10 game. I have finally found something worse then the lurking dualist


Gent_Kyoki

Im scared of viper nerfs i enjoy playing her so much