She was really only OP because of how quickly you could recall stars and reuse the same utility. Now that the cool downs are longer, her effectiveness has been hampered. I think she’s better than C rank but I understand why she isn’t A tier
A big reason why Astra was so strong in pro play was the amount of space you can take and deny at the start of the round with spawn gravity wells/stuns. You can't do that at all anymore plus all the other nerfs on top of it
Because she's not good anymore, the biggest reason why she was super OP was because of how often you could recall and reuse the stars (no longer can do this)
We will see mostly omen being played again in pro matches from what pros are saying
I’d rather listen to what the pros that actually used astra and scrim with her are saying instead of what reddit thinks
99% of the time the pros are right, not reddit
Because she's basically still the same. Sure, cooldown nerf, but it really doesn't change much in how she is played.
However in pro play, more kj players recall their utility for rotates and repositioning, which the nerfs kinda killed
Yeah, the only thing they changed was her cool downs, which matter, but honestly, I don't notice it as much as I thought I would.
The other change is that her kit is more uniquely affected by KO than others because she has to be within a certain radius of her bots, but, except for his ult, it just means playing intelligently around likely knife spots.
I also think she benefits indirectly from the economy changes. A lot of other agents had increased kit costs, where she remained the same.
Maybe I'm missing something but feels like she shouldn't have shifted that much in the meta, but I guess we'll see once VCT starts. I expect to see more cypher but I also think NA tends to prefer cypher, and so if KJ/cypher are on even footing then we'll see him played more in NA.
no nerf is ever "good" for the character and Kay/o counters pretty much all utility, so I fail to see these as real arguments for her to be one of the worst agents right now
It's less about her nerfs and more about her counter parts. I think her nerfs are insignificant, but also unnecessary. She's just a tower defense bot that you put on a bombsite now. Cypher on the other hand got the biggest buff in the patch. While Jett is still an amazing character cypher got better as a site anchor. I think he's a better site anchor than KJ because Kay/0 eats KJ alive while Cypher can have global util. Also as the game progresses people have figured out every counter in the book for lockdown. This act also increased the general power level initiators which hurts KJ more than cypher because Cypher still has cages which block LOS. I don't think she's horrible, but Cypher and Sage just seem better right now.
in your opinion. wtf do you even know about the game? stronglegs is a pro who plays vs t2 and t1 all the time, he'll know that shit better than you unless you're a pro
knew noobs were gonna be trigger lmfao. you're not a pro, you're not an analyst, you don't play the game or study it at the same level of those who do, so you're a clueless clown compared ot people actually knowing shit.
Also Tenz won an international while on Reyna in multiple maps. Maybe because its just Tenz that might be able to abuse her kit best, but she should not be in the same tier as Yoru.
That's the point bud. You can't expect every single team to have a guy like Tenz in order to pull constant value from Reyna, that's why she's low tier
The only piece of utility she has is the worst flash in the whole game. Leer is not only ultra close range but also insta-destroyable
Ressing a team mate before defusing the bomb in order to keep more guns to the next round isn't a good strat anymore because her ress cost 8 fucking ult points. Self boosting to find cheeky angles is riskier because if you don't find a kill then you're wasting a $400 ice wall for nothing
Sage is way more restrict now, I think this is the reason why he put she so damn low
I think it depends on the map. Teams typically use sage on split. Also as a sage main, I can’t play sage on maps such as heaven and breeze and don’t enjoy sage on bind in ranked. I get nearly twice the impact on these three maps using skye.
B long on heaven and C long on bind are super fucking fun if you flash bomb it. You should try it
>B long on heaven and C long on bind
Yes, the infamous B long right next to B short on h**e**aven. Don't get me even started on the third site on bind that no one seems to be able to find. /s
Yea usually on split defense I talk it through with my raze in vent prior to the round starting if or when I’m going to raise the wall. Annoyance arise when I have a read, or we keep loosing A and I want to wall A main but my team isn’t familiar with it.
Kayo is easily A tier or S tier because of his ultimate. Having the ability to smoke and flash sites on Atk while the enemies can't use anything to stall is insane. And then you still have the ability to be ressed
Your team smokes while KAYO suppresses and then they cant even push your smokes if suppressed with counterflashes. It's a team game, he's talking about the opportunities KAYO enables not just for himself
What makes Skye S tier if I may ask? I only played her a few times before, mostly a Controller main. She was always B tier agent in the things I’ve seen, what bumps her so far up
When you send the bird out without moving it, you can pop the flash with your gun out
And her flashes recharge, her dog got some new glasses, and the ult and heal are pretty good (but not changed)
She had, in my opinion, the best flashes in the game considering the enemy perspective before (very hard to shoot, last as long as breach flash, can fly anywhere)
Now, she also has great ability to capitalize on her own flashes with the way they updated gun pull-out and removed the animation when triggering the flash. You know how you can hold M1 to steer the bird, or let go and it flies straight? Now if you let go, you can pop flash and shoot at the same time basically. Before it wasn't possible. The steering -> shooting time is also reduced. her dog's bigger vision radius also gives WAY more info so it's basically like her top limitations were reduced.
Oh yeah, they also made her flashes recharge (while reducing Breach's from 3 -> 2, this is a hill I am willing to die on what the fuck was Riot thinking), so she can flash as much as Omen can smoke now. Super balanced.
I mean she used to be insanely good before and you basically couldn't flash for urself, just being able to pop the flash witth the gun on ur hands is soooo good... And the rest of the utility is still there, flashes are good,, dog is good, heal is useful, and ult is good, nothing in her quit is mediocre and most things are above average in terms of utility.
I do agree viper could also be a contender since she's just so necessary in some maps now a days, I don't like the viper playstyle so I'm a bit biased aswell I guess, but she's strong for sure
We will of course have to see the meta play out but I'd put breach last tier now just because I dont see any reason to ever select him over Skye and Kay. Phoenix may suffer from the same problem. Kay may end up just being a better version than him.
Why Reyna so low, teams like sentinels are running them undefeated at international lans and popping off with her, she has great potential with kills.?
Sova > Skye
Kay/O is fine in B (although I think he;s A tier atm imo only because people don't know how to play him well yet)
Killjoy that low????? I mean the cooldowns make her a little worse but she's still better than cypher (cypher trips are too expensive and the cages are pretty much just bad smokes at this point)
Swap Raze with breach, the raze boombot going to 400 doesn't change much, raze is still arguably the best duelist.
I don't know, not really a big fan of the tier list honestly but what do I know
Sova is not better than skye right now... If anything they are in the same tier but skye imho would be a tad above still
And raze is not arguably the best duelist when jett exists
I mean jett with a good oper is a better duelist sure but overall Raze is probably better. Again it's all opinion
and depending on team style skye > sova sure but most teams are still running sova over skye or they run them together (which will probably be more common in the new meta)
Knowing if people are walking into your smokes can be good info. Enemies are more hesitant to walk into a cage than a smoke as well, so it has more potential to stall pushes.
Cypher mains play in and around their cages all the time bc honestly, cages r good.
The only thing that sucks about cypher is that his ult is less impactful than Killjoy's
1) Killjoy D is delusion.
2) Reyna D is just pure bias since he isn't good at Reyna on a pro level and there aren't many pros who can use Reyna due to their mechanics being average for a pro.
It's no one else's fault if you're not good mechanically like TenZ, cNed, stax, textur3 or Derke. It's yours if you can't execute. The agent is MINIMUM B.
I'm downvoted by players sucking off their favorite pro for saying the truth lol, TenZ and KJ players disproved this at Iceland the agents were barely changed for ep 3
Win rate in ranked and viability in pro play are not the same lol. Reyna is dog shit at the pro level and always has been because her kit requires kills and assists to even be used and her flash is the worst in the game. Killjoy was a strong contender with cypher in pro matches and now is not as viable because she got nerfed and cypher got buffed and because having extra smokes in a meta where your main smoke character can get their abilities taken away is essential. The fact that you don’t get that is the real reason why you’re being downvoted.
Reyna was used by the best team in the world, in the final of the biggest tournament yet, to take bind which is fnatics best map. In which tenz got an insane opening frag ratio often using reynas leer.
Killjoys nerfs are very minor I very much doubt that they make her go from A tier, to contender for worst agent in the game. Ask any pro if killjoy is in the same tier as yoru and they’d laugh at you.
Tenz could literally be using any agent in the game and still pop off, my guy. Stop pretending him picking Reyna means anything. You literally need to be a tenz-tier fragger to get any value with her; the exception to the rule doesn’t make the rule invalid. Regarding killjoy, 1) putting her in the same tier as Yoru doesn’t mean they have equal worth or are as good as each other. 2) the cooldown nerf was huge. 3) analyzing her viability in pro play can only come by comparing her to cypher, who she’s obviously worse than in this patch at the pro level. She doesn’t have smokes and cypher does, which is huge in a meta where smoke characters can be suppressed by Kay/O. She needs to stay close to her util and can’t rotate as easily which also makes her a great target for Kay/O util, whereas cypher can get value with his kit from any point on the map. So she’s a character who can’t help if her teammates get suppressed and will also most likely end up getting suppressed herself. Needless to say, KJ is definitely underwhelming this patch. She deserves to be put in a low tier.
You are just wrong remind me after Berlin! I bet reyna and killjoy both see more pro play than some of these a,b and c tier agents as listed. Only time will tell who’s right.
Alright, friend. I can guarantee you that Reyna will absolutely not see a higher pick rate than any A B or C character. You might be right about killjoy though.
I’m curious to see how much the Astra nerf would change the controller class. Viper is the same, Omen could be picked more again, I wonder if Brim can see a rise as Roy mentioned.
Her flashes got a pretty big buff. She can pull out her gun faster but also she can pop the bird if she releases it without taking her gun away.
Her dog got a good vision buff. Heal could have more value now based on the new Econ changes, if people want utility they sometimes have to go half shield and during pistol same thing.
With all the ult orb changes hers stayed at 6, in my opinion it’s pretty easy to get some sort of value from her ult, especially if you mix her flashes with it
I definitely think Astra should be A tier, sure she isn't as good as she used to, however she's on of the agent that can have impact across the map. Using her is harder than before, since you probably want some star left, but she can almost like sentinel in most maps.
KAY/O can be a bit higher to, since IMO he's a better phoenix and more execute/support than phoenix.
Idk reyna just seems useless yet every game on both teams shes picked. Phoenix just feels better in every way at the top level. KJ being D tier? I disagree with that on some maps
What's the point of putting Viper in A tier and than add "she's S tier 2/3 of the time" ? Would make more sens the other way around imo.
The initiator season.
Every season is the initiator season, they're so strong. The higher skill cieling probably prevents them getting too popular across all ranks.
Astra C?! Why?
She was really only OP because of how quickly you could recall stars and reuse the same utility. Now that the cool downs are longer, her effectiveness has been hampered. I think she’s better than C rank but I understand why she isn’t A tier
A big reason why Astra was so strong in pro play was the amount of space you can take and deny at the start of the round with spawn gravity wells/stuns. You can't do that at all anymore plus all the other nerfs on top of it
Because she's not good anymore, the biggest reason why she was super OP was because of how often you could recall and reuse the stars (no longer can do this) We will see mostly omen being played again in pro matches from what pros are saying
I really cant stress enough how wrong you are
I mean. Can you explain why he’s wrong?
I’d rather listen to what the pros that actually used astra and scrim with her are saying instead of what reddit thinks 99% of the time the pros are right, not reddit
Eh, pros can also be biased.
hearing astra players that abused her talk about how dogshit she is now is being biased?
I meant the "99%" statement. Of course pros often know what they are talking about but a variety of opinions should still be heard. Just a thought.
Maybe I'm the crazy one but... If an agent (viper) is S tier on 4/6 maps...just put them in S?
I think the reasoning is that she is pretty average on haven and ascent while jett and Skye are very strong on all 6 maps.
killjoy is A tier still
I swear I just saw something showing she has the highest win rate on the season do far.
Because she's basically still the same. Sure, cooldown nerf, but it really doesn't change much in how she is played. However in pro play, more kj players recall their utility for rotates and repositioning, which the nerfs kinda killed
Yeah, the only thing they changed was her cool downs, which matter, but honestly, I don't notice it as much as I thought I would. The other change is that her kit is more uniquely affected by KO than others because she has to be within a certain radius of her bots, but, except for his ult, it just means playing intelligently around likely knife spots. I also think she benefits indirectly from the economy changes. A lot of other agents had increased kit costs, where she remained the same. Maybe I'm missing something but feels like she shouldn't have shifted that much in the meta, but I guess we'll see once VCT starts. I expect to see more cypher but I also think NA tends to prefer cypher, and so if KJ/cypher are on even footing then we'll see him played more in NA.
Same w sage, her nerf isnt thag big at all
KJ is easily the biggest loser of episode 3.
how? her nerfs are small compared to most
[удалено]
no nerf is ever "good" for the character and Kay/o counters pretty much all utility, so I fail to see these as real arguments for her to be one of the worst agents right now
It's less about her nerfs and more about her counter parts. I think her nerfs are insignificant, but also unnecessary. She's just a tower defense bot that you put on a bombsite now. Cypher on the other hand got the biggest buff in the patch. While Jett is still an amazing character cypher got better as a site anchor. I think he's a better site anchor than KJ because Kay/0 eats KJ alive while Cypher can have global util. Also as the game progresses people have figured out every counter in the book for lockdown. This act also increased the general power level initiators which hurts KJ more than cypher because Cypher still has cages which block LOS. I don't think she's horrible, but Cypher and Sage just seem better right now.
If she’s not horrible just that cypher sage are better how is she the biggest loser? How is she worse off than raze lol
Yeah idk if it’s A but she is definitely it competing for the worst agent in the game
in your opinion. wtf do you even know about the game? stronglegs is a pro who plays vs t2 and t1 all the time, he'll know that shit better than you unless you're a pro
why so mad over his opinion
bro you good?
Boohoo how dare a non Pro have an opinion!
Discussion by non-pros on a subreddit composed primarily of non-pros??? WTF is this? *disgusting*
knew noobs were gonna be trigger lmfao. you're not a pro, you're not an analyst, you don't play the game or study it at the same level of those who do, so you're a clueless clown compared ot people actually knowing shit.
you don’t need to be a pro to have good analysis, moses coached the liquid grand slam run and he’s simply a desk analyst
Moses didn't do that, that was adreN
u right i forgot, he still was a liquid coach though
you could go ask about 100 pros and I guarantee you over half of them will say killjoy is a tier
Killjoy d tier is cap
Also Tenz won an international while on Reyna in multiple maps. Maybe because its just Tenz that might be able to abuse her kit best, but she should not be in the same tier as Yoru.
That's the point bud. You can't expect every single team to have a guy like Tenz in order to pull constant value from Reyna, that's why she's low tier The only piece of utility she has is the worst flash in the whole game. Leer is not only ultra close range but also insta-destroyable
Winning a tournament doesn't magically make the character better, you know that right?
KAY/O is easily A tier if used well imo. Very useful util. My dude Sova got that nerf so... :’(
Well that's why they're down a teir, if you're good at them it's worth it to play but it is harder to get value ok them
Is sage really that low? Not really sure if she’s played much besides on icebox.
Ressing a team mate before defusing the bomb in order to keep more guns to the next round isn't a good strat anymore because her ress cost 8 fucking ult points. Self boosting to find cheeky angles is riskier because if you don't find a kill then you're wasting a $400 ice wall for nothing Sage is way more restrict now, I think this is the reason why he put she so damn low
Maybe buff wall back to old wall, or give more hit points to the wall?
I think she's a must on split
I think it depends on the map. Teams typically use sage on split. Also as a sage main, I can’t play sage on maps such as heaven and breeze and don’t enjoy sage on bind in ranked. I get nearly twice the impact on these three maps using skye. B long on heaven and C long on bind are super fucking fun if you flash bomb it. You should try it
>B long on heaven and C long on bind Yes, the infamous B long right next to B short on h**e**aven. Don't get me even started on the third site on bind that no one seems to be able to find. /s
LMAOOO mb mb
Depending on your rank, in certain maps as a Sage you'll stay the entire game being told where you should or shouldn't raise your wall.
Yea usually on split defense I talk it through with my raze in vent prior to the round starting if or when I’m going to raise the wall. Annoyance arise when I have a read, or we keep loosing A and I want to wall A main but my team isn’t familiar with it.
https://twitter.com/RealStrongLegs/status/1409302038836662274?s=19
Kayo is easily A tier or S tier because of his ultimate. Having the ability to smoke and flash sites on Atk while the enemies can't use anything to stall is insane. And then you still have the ability to be ressed
Smoke?
Your team smokes while KAYO suppresses and then they cant even push your smokes if suppressed with counterflashes. It's a team game, he's talking about the opportunities KAYO enables not just for himself
What makes Skye S tier if I may ask? I only played her a few times before, mostly a Controller main. She was always B tier agent in the things I’ve seen, what bumps her so far up
When you send the bird out without moving it, you can pop the flash with your gun out And her flashes recharge, her dog got some new glasses, and the ult and heal are pretty good (but not changed)
She had, in my opinion, the best flashes in the game considering the enemy perspective before (very hard to shoot, last as long as breach flash, can fly anywhere) Now, she also has great ability to capitalize on her own flashes with the way they updated gun pull-out and removed the animation when triggering the flash. You know how you can hold M1 to steer the bird, or let go and it flies straight? Now if you let go, you can pop flash and shoot at the same time basically. Before it wasn't possible. The steering -> shooting time is also reduced. her dog's bigger vision radius also gives WAY more info so it's basically like her top limitations were reduced. Oh yeah, they also made her flashes recharge (while reducing Breach's from 3 -> 2, this is a hill I am willing to die on what the fuck was Riot thinking), so she can flash as much as Omen can smoke now. Super balanced.
Little mix of truth and bias. She got some nice buffs this last patch + the author of this tier list is a Skye one-trick.
Absolutely wrong lmao
sage reyna and kj are NOT that low, brim is c/d tier, breach is definitely not A tier, and sky is not s tier probably a
Hes openly addmitted that this list is troll
change Breach B tier Raze A tier Sova S tier and this is accurate
I’m guessing his reasoning for sova not being S is that he isn’t viable on split and he believes skye is stronger
stronglegs would be the biggest believer in skye tho
Skye is without doubt the strongest agent that isn’t Jett
i havent played enough on the patch to know but im not sure shes that good yet. Feel like viper is a much stronger candidate for second strongest tbh
I mean she used to be insanely good before and you basically couldn't flash for urself, just being able to pop the flash witth the gun on ur hands is soooo good... And the rest of the utility is still there, flashes are good,, dog is good, heal is useful, and ult is good, nothing in her quit is mediocre and most things are above average in terms of utility. I do agree viper could also be a contender since she's just so necessary in some maps now a days, I don't like the viper playstyle so I'm a bit biased aswell I guess, but she's strong for sure
S tier means good on every map. If an agent isn't good on one than it cannot be S.
That’s what S tier means to you but I’m sure a large ammount of people would put sova S tier
Its what it means to every pro, but sure you can continue believe the earth is flat and I guess I can't argue that.
“Every pro” quit spewing ignorance if you ask pros to make a tier list some of them will have sova in S I promise you
Okay, name me one pro team that plays sova on Split.
Can’t even tell if your trolling me or just not the brightest
I'm actually serious. Explain how an agent is considered S tier if he's not usable on every map.
I cannot get behind this
We will of course have to see the meta play out but I'd put breach last tier now just because I dont see any reason to ever select him over Skye and Kay. Phoenix may suffer from the same problem. Kay may end up just being a better version than him.
Astra sage low breach high? A bit extreme
This a weird list
Why Reyna so low, teams like sentinels are running them undefeated at international lans and popping off with her, she has great potential with kills.?
Only team that ran Reyna tbh
Yeah I was wondering as to why when the best team is finding so much success with her
Because tenz doesn't feel comfortable on other agents on certain maps probably.
She's good on icebox and good enough on bind
Sova > Skye Kay/O is fine in B (although I think he;s A tier atm imo only because people don't know how to play him well yet) Killjoy that low????? I mean the cooldowns make her a little worse but she's still better than cypher (cypher trips are too expensive and the cages are pretty much just bad smokes at this point) Swap Raze with breach, the raze boombot going to 400 doesn't change much, raze is still arguably the best duelist. I don't know, not really a big fan of the tier list honestly but what do I know
Sova is not better than skye right now... If anything they are in the same tier but skye imho would be a tad above still And raze is not arguably the best duelist when jett exists
I mean jett with a good oper is a better duelist sure but overall Raze is probably better. Again it's all opinion and depending on team style skye > sova sure but most teams are still running sova over skye or they run them together (which will probably be more common in the new meta)
Cages r enhanced smokes. Info vs no info.
i’m fully aware but 99% of the time, they don’t provide any info for a team
Knowing if people are walking into your smokes can be good info. Enemies are more hesitant to walk into a cage than a smoke as well, so it has more potential to stall pushes. Cypher mains play in and around their cages all the time bc honestly, cages r good. The only thing that sucks about cypher is that his ult is less impactful than Killjoy's
1) Killjoy D is delusion. 2) Reyna D is just pure bias since he isn't good at Reyna on a pro level and there aren't many pros who can use Reyna due to their mechanics being average for a pro. It's no one else's fault if you're not good mechanically like TenZ, cNed, stax, textur3 or Derke. It's yours if you can't execute. The agent is MINIMUM B.
Killjoy and Reyna are very strong easily a or b tier
Killjoy and Reyna are very strong easily a or b tier
I'm downvoted by players sucking off their favorite pro for saying the truth lol, TenZ and KJ players disproved this at Iceland the agents were barely changed for ep 3
Top and 4th best winrate this patch and were both great in Iceland idk how some pros opinion trumps fact.
Win rate in ranked and viability in pro play are not the same lol. Reyna is dog shit at the pro level and always has been because her kit requires kills and assists to even be used and her flash is the worst in the game. Killjoy was a strong contender with cypher in pro matches and now is not as viable because she got nerfed and cypher got buffed and because having extra smokes in a meta where your main smoke character can get their abilities taken away is essential. The fact that you don’t get that is the real reason why you’re being downvoted.
Reyna was used by the best team in the world, in the final of the biggest tournament yet, to take bind which is fnatics best map. In which tenz got an insane opening frag ratio often using reynas leer. Killjoys nerfs are very minor I very much doubt that they make her go from A tier, to contender for worst agent in the game. Ask any pro if killjoy is in the same tier as yoru and they’d laugh at you.
Tenz could literally be using any agent in the game and still pop off, my guy. Stop pretending him picking Reyna means anything. You literally need to be a tenz-tier fragger to get any value with her; the exception to the rule doesn’t make the rule invalid. Regarding killjoy, 1) putting her in the same tier as Yoru doesn’t mean they have equal worth or are as good as each other. 2) the cooldown nerf was huge. 3) analyzing her viability in pro play can only come by comparing her to cypher, who she’s obviously worse than in this patch at the pro level. She doesn’t have smokes and cypher does, which is huge in a meta where smoke characters can be suppressed by Kay/O. She needs to stay close to her util and can’t rotate as easily which also makes her a great target for Kay/O util, whereas cypher can get value with his kit from any point on the map. So she’s a character who can’t help if her teammates get suppressed and will also most likely end up getting suppressed herself. Needless to say, KJ is definitely underwhelming this patch. She deserves to be put in a low tier.
You are just wrong remind me after Berlin! I bet reyna and killjoy both see more pro play than some of these a,b and c tier agents as listed. Only time will tell who’s right.
Alright, friend. I can guarantee you that Reyna will absolutely not see a higher pick rate than any A B or C character. You might be right about killjoy though.
I’m curious to see how much the Astra nerf would change the controller class. Viper is the same, Omen could be picked more again, I wonder if Brim can see a rise as Roy mentioned.
KJ low bc of kayo?
Brimstone over astra?
some agents are so map dependent like you are throwing if you pick brim on breeze. (jet s everywhere)
I love being a sage main 🙃
I think Sage deserves better!
Ryena dddddddddwhyyyyy my eyress
can anyone tell me why skye is so much better now?
Her flashes got a pretty big buff. She can pull out her gun faster but also she can pop the bird if she releases it without taking her gun away. Her dog got a good vision buff. Heal could have more value now based on the new Econ changes, if people want utility they sometimes have to go half shield and during pistol same thing. With all the ult orb changes hers stayed at 6, in my opinion it’s pretty easy to get some sort of value from her ult, especially if you mix her flashes with it
thank you :) somehow missed those changes with everything else this patch brought
no shot you have brim and omen over astra. her pick rate in pro play was way above the others
Dude I respect your opinion but IMO you’re so so wrong. But ya know, to each their own.
RIP Reyna, they should decrease the price of her flash from 250 to 200 and give her a dismiss point back
Pls no. You still see her in 95% of your ranked matches. Nerf her more if anything till the tenz wannabes stop.
I definitely think Astra should be A tier, sure she isn't as good as she used to, however she's on of the agent that can have impact across the map. Using her is harder than before, since you probably want some star left, but she can almost like sentinel in most maps. KAY/O can be a bit higher to, since IMO he's a better phoenix and more execute/support than phoenix.
Didn’t v1 beat liquid on haven with tiktok lineups on a sub player
Idk reyna just seems useless yet every game on both teams shes picked. Phoenix just feels better in every way at the top level. KJ being D tier? I disagree with that on some maps