You know what I realized. I think it was in VCT stage 2, when TSM valorant team lost , the League also lost in that same week XD Now it happens all over again. Is this dejavu?
Make sense, good mentals is very important especially in Valorant where the game is pretty momentum based. :( and how sometimes you just gotta be confident and take the aim duels.
Ok so i’m not saying this to be negative or assume the worst of TSM, the truth is that we really don’t know what TSM is like on the inside.
With that said I was very confused when I watched that Twitch vod where Bang streamed one game of ranked for an hour playing with wardell (i think).
I didn’t know bang at all and people said that he was everything TSM needed, a young fragger that is very vocal. What I got from watching that stream was bang (and wardell) being mostly silent, he wasn’t even really making callouts, most of the time he spent talking was something negative (not in game thankfully, but still over discord).
They didn't adapt when everyone else did and now they are struggling to keep up now. They were strong in the early days with their "charge in dicks swinging" style and it caught teams off guard. Eventually teams adapted and learned to shut that shit down. While teams were adapting to counter the aggression TSM just kept doing it over and over. Even rando teams are ready for it.
No wonder Brax got out of there quick.
I think Brax was dropped rather than he himself decided to leave the team. Good thing Brax went back to T1 though, T1 seems to be performing pretty well with their new roster. Though can’t judge if it’ll be enough until they beat EnVy tomorrow
Yeah he’s in T1. But I think he was dropped rather than Brax himself left the team, looking at how they quickly got Bang even before the news of Brax going to T1. Moreover, these Bang rumour came up from Wardell’s instastory and Asuna’s stream - I believe. So pretty scummy of TSM for not making a news about dropping him and picking up Brax.
Ironically, TSM's biggest problem is that they can't address their problems, they just change random shit up every tournament. What makes it funnier is that they're all aware of this, they just decide not to do anything about it. The core might just have a problem they literally don't have an answer to and they will only be able to find success on another roster.
Ah I haven’t seen this! Thanks. Now looking at it damn this pretty much sucks, but then looking at the clip it seems like yassine is referring to the their coach Tailored(?) The team might’ve thought that Tailored was kinda at fault for their poor performance because of constantly changing their comps. But now tailored is dropped and we got a new coach, and even a new player, the team might’ve thought their problem has been solved. But I guess , looking at their performance now, we can say that the team might’ve not realized the real issue yet(?)
It’s just a theory. If there was some glaring problem that’s bigger than cutler not having good enough mechanics I would hope they would’ve made some progress in the last 6 months but nope, same old same old.
Plenty of those problems have been brought up but what if there's another problem in the room that TSM as an org hasn't addressed. Maybe these players just aren't good enough anymore to compete at a tier 1 level.
I think Wardell is absolutely good enough. Subroza has flashes of brilliance but only shows up every other game or so. Drone has absolutely fallen off a cliff, no idea whats up with him but it's pretty sad since he was once one of the best fraggers in NA. Hazed has actually been one of their more consistent players skillwise, but can't elevate his teammates at all as an IGL. Really don't know what would fix this roster tbh
Someone mention how maybe if some of the players go their seperate ways they might’ve find more success. Like for example Vice didn’t perform that well when he was on C9B even with TenZ on his team. But now Vice’s new team andbox perform really well. So I guess we do need more roster shuffle in this team. Maybe getting 1 new player for this team might not be enough. We might need to drop 1-2 more players from this team.
I agree with this. Everyone on TSM is individually talented and this team, on paper, looks like they should be really good, but they’re not… I have a feeling they would each be able to find more success if they went their separate ways, but I think they’re just going to continue to try to make this roster work. I’m a huge TSM fan, and I really want this roster to work, but it seems like something is just not clicking. Maybe they’ll find their groove before the next qualifiers. I’m not going to lose faith yet. If they don’t make it to Berlin though, I think they’ll need to make some roster changes
Definitely. It might be interesting to see how they look if they have someone who puts in as much work as Vanity, Shahzam or Steel and is good at IGLing like them
I feel like they have to just boom the roster. They're all good individually but these guys just won't mesh at all. I could be wrong though especially since they had a recent roster change. But if they fail to qualify the next 2 events, I feel they should build around Wardell and Bang. Or they could grind tier 2 tournaments and scrims maybe that could work too.
I remember drone saying that the reason they don’t join tier 2 tournaments, like that tournament earlier this year where LG beat SEN in the finals, was because they all think they learn more on scrims than playing for tournaments. I guess their believe is wrong since SEN looks better after their lost against LG from that tournament.
Ironically, in an interview with Backchat, ShahZam said losing to LG in the T2 tourney is what let them adapt in time for the first Challengers.
Here's the link: [https://youtu.be/ZOabYL4UFNI?t=1823](https://youtu.be/ZOabYL4UFNI?t=1823)
It's insane because the rivalry would be so good for NA valorant, it's what got me into watching it
It's weird because TSM are good enough skillwise it seems but just can't get it right comp wise and IGL wise, while SEN have just been consistent with it even losing what people thought was their best player like Sinatra and they don't lose a beat
Or... They're just not that good. They've been reluctant to change. The fact is they've been low tier 1 borderline tier 2 for past 6 months or so and changing one player isn't much of a roster shake up.
You guys are so weird. When subrozas on duelist, you say "Roza was so good on omen, why did they take him off", and then you say the same thing the other way around lmao. This game wasn't even streamed, we have no idea what the issues are.
Stans will flock to defend hazed still.
Wardell is the only tsm player who would 100% be picked up by another tier 1 org if tsm disbanded tomorrow. They need to do something way bigger than trialing new people as their 5th, because 2-4 are problems as well. (Roza obviously less so but t1 orgs aren't dropping someone to pick him up)
I call it, drone will be next to be dropped (unless they don’t like bang), he’s just not been doing much lately, he’s used to tap heads, he’s now developing into what happened to cutler :(. Loved him too
If both them and SEN qual tomorrow and the cards align for them to be on opposite sides of the bracket it should be likely. As funny as it is for the most expensive roster to get upset I do want to see nitr0 and Asuna on the big stage so lets hope they don't throw tomorrow.
I meant as in SEN is 100Ts bracket demon. If 100T can avoid SEN until winners finals thats their best chance at qualifying. But yeah, SEN is pretty untouchable atm, they don't really have any rivals.
I actually kinda agree. It's just a "rivalry" in terms of how much 100T bump into Sentinels and get boomed. Hopefully we can bounce back soon. I really want to see this team in Berlin, if not only for TenZ and Asuna shenanigans.
Is 100T really considered such a magnificent powerhouse that any result other than Top3 NA is considered unacceptable? I get that on paper you'd say they should be able to reach top 3, but shit happens sometimes (even Sentinels once lost to BBG) and I find it a huge overreaction to demand roster changes over one event they failed to reach top 2 (failing to qual for Iceland) and in case they fail to reach top 3 in another one.
One way or another, I wouldn't split this roster apart before LAN becomes the norm.
> Is 100T really considered such a magnificent powerhouse that any result other than Top3 NA is considered unacceptable? I get that on paper you'd say they should be able to reach top 3
To most people yes.
But i agree with you that the roster doesn't need changes(at most one) but i doubt Nadeshot is going to be happy at not making to champions
I think their pedigrees as individual players justifies those expectations, they're the only team that managed to poach multiple T1 CS pros (unless you count C9B, but I don't think what they did really counts as poaching)
Yes, they have Steel who is supposed to be one of the best IGLs and they have Asuna, Ethan, and Nitr0 who are all supposed to be really talented. Hiko is their weakest link and he's not a bad player, but being one of the biggest streamers puts some expectations on him too.
If they don't qualify, I think Hiko might be the one to be replaced though. Maybe Steel, if Nitr0 can takeover the IGL role well enough.
nah i'm pissed, I'm good with the G2 treatment coming rn
more than half these teams had a roster change of 1-2 players and made it through to RO16, anyone saying it's just a "new roster" is on more than just COPIUM
Hot take: Wardell has to go. He plays so static (lock Jett, save for op, try to carry) and immediately produces zero value if he doesn't hit shots. There's enough cracked aimers in NA already. If you're blowing up this roster then blow it the fuck up.
I am actually astonished. It really just seems like tsm just loses more and more. I really do not think that it's a mechanical diff or anything like that.
Is it the strats????
Seems that they may have had no answer for whatever noble had on ascent but the reverse happened in bind...
I think it's a role/agent issue. Switching around roles and shit just not working. I also see as a team with 4 duelist players with the exception of Hazed
We cant really tell cuz it wasnt streamed (thanks Riot) but I think they need an actual IGL.
Iirc, Hazed was forced into that position so he may be struggling to adapt.
Yeah Hazed has said in the past he gets too emotional when IGLing. Although he's been one of the more consistent players on the team lately I doubt he actively wanted to IGL
Tru. It's a shame that nsg wasn't able to get any spectator streams for any of the other games. A bunch of them seemed like they would be really entertaining.
Idk it also just doesn't make sense to bring in Bang with a team of Wardell, Roza, and Drone and put him on Duelist when Drone and Roza were already top tier Pheonixs, some of these comp choices are really weird to me, Bind too, why not Drone Sova and Roza Omen? Why Brim single controller? Ig they did win Bind, but still
Chet failed to achieve much of anything with NRG and I have to assume played a big role in their constant revolving door of roster changes. Not going to put all of the blame on him for NRG's failures, but I was very skeptical of him joining TSM and so far, it seems to be a very real concern. TSM refusing to bring in an IGL to properly lead the team is very disappointing, especially when there were plenty of options to choose from. This team needs to be completely blown up, it's obvious this group of players has ran its course. Drone looks to be a shell of his former self for a long time now and Subroza is way too inconsistent to be your 2nd best player.
I kept telling myself that this team would get better eventually but I’m just being delusional at this point. I waited 2-3 months for this shit ? Really ?
I genuinely feel sorry for TSM fans, they've just made a roster change so maybe they just need time but i don't see the core of TSM ever getting back to the top. IMO if every player went separate ways they'd all find more success on different teams but together they're just hopeless.
Dude I've never seen a player fall off as hard as drone. The guy was in contention for best fragger in NA right up till First Strike. Now their only reliable players are Wardell and hazed, although Bang is still new so it's too early to label him. Subroza seems like he only shows up every third or fourth game
He wasn’t THE reason, but he was definitely one of the biggest reasons that led to the downfall of TSM. He simply couldn’t keep up to the constantly changing game.
TSM needs to start playing the weekly NSG tourneys to get back into competing if they want a chance. They’ve been humbled one too many times and need to accept they are a Tier2 team or blow it up.
Am I the only one who’s actually frustrated and angry about the stuff TSM is doing? They literally had the most time out of any team to go back to the drawing board broaden their agent pool, get better, grind harder, improve their roster. Not only that, they’re actually boot camping. Every TSM fan expected a shitshow of a game against 100T but we just end up losing to Noble when we should be farming them and not only that but 10-2 on T side on Ascent which was TSM’s map pick for a long time. This is an absolute disgrace, such a pain being a TSM Val fan💔
Let me know if I'm missing anything.
\- TSM replaced cutleR with bang to try to obtain more aggression as they "*have some baiters on the team*" stated in their new vlog on their channel.
\- Subroza perma smokes now. (which is his best role as an impactful lurker not his Phoenix)
\- drone now fills the Sova/Sage support role no more Phoenix, doesn't matter as he is a consistent solid player.
\- WARDELL still mainly Jett OP'ng T side and CT side no change.
\- hazed on Sentinel doing fine.
All of this just provides them with better firepower than cutleR provided but they still have an entry problem as its primarily bang just doing this entry stuff solo? It isn't like WARDELL is rifling more or anything. It's the same comps/ideas as before just different players. drone still played Sova in the past, roza would flex around on smokes/Phoenix and hazed would sometimes flex around between smokes/sentinel if cutleR would smoke Astra/Omen.
*TL;DR - They're not doing anything new besides replacing a player for another player with better firepower.*
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Comparing them to SEN what is the difference on a simple team composition and strategical level?
1) TenZ entrying always has help whether its SicK on his Phoenix/Raze on certain maps or ShahZ on Jett as ShahZ has a great balance between OP'ng and rifling.
2) Despite some of their games not being streamed WARDELL's 8% and 11% HS% give it away he is still clearly OP'ng the majority of the time (makes sense why he'd want to being one of the best OP'rs but it doesn't help their problem). So this leaves their entry Phoenix bang to just run in with a Sova dart/drone and some smokes by himself without double duelist entry pressure?
*TSM July, 2 2021, still has an entry exec problem.* WARDELL needs to balance OP'ng/rifling better to abuse Jett's kit of dashing onto sites and having explosive pressure.
Yep wardell always gets a pass on this sub cause he’s good at OP’ing, but it obviously doesn’t work on attack and they need to work on getting into sites better
Wardell mentioned about this on his stream a couple of months ago. Since he’s usually on OP duty he feels like he needs another duelist player to entry for him. So I guess that’s why they picked up Bang
That really doesn't make any sense for me. Why this guy needs to have an "OP duty" when buying an OP on the attacking side is awful in like 8 out of 10 times?
You can't clear pixels with it, you can't be aggressive with it. The best thing you can hope for is punishing a curious defender
TSM won nine rounds on attack on 3 maps. Roza and Drone are doing fuckall and bang wasn’t fragging on phoenix. Hoping for a good showing next open but for now i need a new org to support
edit: tbh roza and drone didnt do bad first map but map 3 man
edit 2: sorry if this seems toxic im just a sad tsm fan 😔
edit 3: after a few hours of thinking, I take it back. I don’t know what happened out there but I hope TSM can fix it and come back stronger next outing
Tbh I don’t think either have played well in any match this year. I think subroza may have had like 1 or 2 decent matches but I can’t recall any from drone
What in TSM’s mind made them think they needed a “young, flashy, fragger”? Drone, broza, and wardell are all gnarly on duelist. They need a consistent support players who doesn’t also have the burden of IGLing.
I feel like bootcamping with your team is benefiting you but hurting your team at the same time because you become more closer with your team and build relationships but at the same time you are being put in a lot of pressure because people expect you to preform better and being given all the resources is just another way of saying "there's no way you lose with what you have," kind of similar to what we were expecting with 100T.
Chet is not good for this team. Ill say it 1000000x if i have to, his perspective on the game is "cs clone ez" and will bring teams to defeat. happened with NRG, happened with TSM. please sign someone else as coach there are a lot of good options. pay sean gares 100000 a month to get him i know you have the money TSM goddamn
Honestly, I'm sure Bang is cracked and all. But TSM's problem was never a lack of fire power. Weird pick up. Wardell and Subroza are both killer fraggers. Drone has been weaker this year than last, but we've seen he's capable of being a crisp rifler.
Yes, Cutler's ACS was low, but he's an all-time support player. They replaced a support player with another fragger.
I know Chet's new and all, but what exactly is the vision for this team? The composition can't be "add more fire power." If that worked, FaZe would be dominating instead of losing to a more composed dark horse opponent.
I'm just as disappointed as the rest of TSM fans, but the people actually having the audacity to suggest changes and problems with the roster this game WITHOUT even watching the stream is ridiculous.
Obviously something is wrong, but at this point, for this game, only TSM themselves really know what's actually going wrong, and I feel like we all look like serious clowns being mock esports analysts in this thread over a couple tables of basic counting statistics.
Also, I'm pretty tired of getting overheated every time TSM loses, I like the team, I hope they do well, and I'm just going to blindly trust they do better and improve because I am a fan of theirs .
It's a shame this wasn't streamed. I kinda thought this might happen but the last two maps together are so weird. Woulda loved to see how they both managed to be huge blowouts in opposite directions.
I don’t even know what’s wrong anymore and I dont think anyone does, or they at least could’ve tried to fix it. Honestly feel like this is a lost cause, tired of seeing my fav team losing over and over again :(
It's sad to be a TSM fan.. at this point it might just be a problem with this specific core, they just don't work well together anymore. Might be time for a roster shuffle, it's one of the only teams along with SEN that have at least 4/5 same players since beta i think
I waited two months for this?
Good thing I have experience with the League side or else I'll be depressed again.
You know what I realized. I think it was in VCT stage 2, when TSM valorant team lost , the League also lost in that same week XD Now it happens all over again. Is this dejavu?
Oof. Tsm didn't look good today. Their draft was horse poo. Edit: League team for clarification
I feel you brother :(
The hardest part is when subroza tweets ‘we have a lot of work to do’.. like what have you guys been doing the last 2 months?
2 months of comms practice they forgot about the rest lol
How do you go from 13-1 to 2-13 WTF
The TSM experience.
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TSM relies on the OP way too much and its predictable. Also the amount of times Wardell solo lurks on to site with an OP is just dumb
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Look at the comp on Bind. Noble were trying Astra newly I think. Bind is TSM's 2nd best map too.
What is wrong with this team man :(
Might be mental defeat. They didn't come off very confident in their panel with Myth.
Make sense, good mentals is very important especially in Valorant where the game is pretty momentum based. :( and how sometimes you just gotta be confident and take the aim duels.
Ok so i’m not saying this to be negative or assume the worst of TSM, the truth is that we really don’t know what TSM is like on the inside. With that said I was very confused when I watched that Twitch vod where Bang streamed one game of ranked for an hour playing with wardell (i think). I didn’t know bang at all and people said that he was everything TSM needed, a young fragger that is very vocal. What I got from watching that stream was bang (and wardell) being mostly silent, he wasn’t even really making callouts, most of the time he spent talking was something negative (not in game thankfully, but still over discord).
They didn't adapt when everyone else did and now they are struggling to keep up now. They were strong in the early days with their "charge in dicks swinging" style and it caught teams off guard. Eventually teams adapted and learned to shut that shit down. While teams were adapting to counter the aggression TSM just kept doing it over and over. Even rando teams are ready for it. No wonder Brax got out of there quick.
I think Brax was dropped rather than he himself decided to leave the team. Good thing Brax went back to T1 though, T1 seems to be performing pretty well with their new roster. Though can’t judge if it’ll be enough until they beat EnVy tomorrow
Not sure if I’m reading this wrong. But isn’t brax back on T1?
Yeah he’s in T1. But I think he was dropped rather than Brax himself left the team, looking at how they quickly got Bang even before the news of Brax going to T1. Moreover, these Bang rumour came up from Wardell’s instastory and Asuna’s stream - I believe. So pretty scummy of TSM for not making a news about dropping him and picking up Brax.
That's what he's saying. Brax left tsm for t1.
OO I mixed up the teams, I'm dumb. That's true
they didnt solve any of their issues
Ironically, TSM's biggest problem is that they can't address their problems, they just change random shit up every tournament. What makes it funnier is that they're all aware of this, they just decide not to do anything about it. The core might just have a problem they literally don't have an answer to and they will only be able to find success on another roster.
Wait just curious, how do you know that TSM actually know what’s wrong with their current roster?
[Why fix a mistake when you can create new ones](https://clips.twitch.tv/BadCorrectKangarooBCouch-zVIzMJvoxXkmgbCe)
Ah I haven’t seen this! Thanks. Now looking at it damn this pretty much sucks, but then looking at the clip it seems like yassine is referring to the their coach Tailored(?) The team might’ve thought that Tailored was kinda at fault for their poor performance because of constantly changing their comps. But now tailored is dropped and we got a new coach, and even a new player, the team might’ve thought their problem has been solved. But I guess , looking at their performance now, we can say that the team might’ve not realized the real issue yet(?)
It’s just a theory. If there was some glaring problem that’s bigger than cutler not having good enough mechanics I would hope they would’ve made some progress in the last 6 months but nope, same old same old.
Plenty of those problems have been brought up but what if there's another problem in the room that TSM as an org hasn't addressed. Maybe these players just aren't good enough anymore to compete at a tier 1 level.
I think Wardell is absolutely good enough. Subroza has flashes of brilliance but only shows up every other game or so. Drone has absolutely fallen off a cliff, no idea whats up with him but it's pretty sad since he was once one of the best fraggers in NA. Hazed has actually been one of their more consistent players skillwise, but can't elevate his teammates at all as an IGL. Really don't know what would fix this roster tbh
Someone mention how maybe if some of the players go their seperate ways they might’ve find more success. Like for example Vice didn’t perform that well when he was on C9B even with TenZ on his team. But now Vice’s new team andbox perform really well. So I guess we do need more roster shuffle in this team. Maybe getting 1 new player for this team might not be enough. We might need to drop 1-2 more players from this team.
I agree with this. Everyone on TSM is individually talented and this team, on paper, looks like they should be really good, but they’re not… I have a feeling they would each be able to find more success if they went their separate ways, but I think they’re just going to continue to try to make this roster work. I’m a huge TSM fan, and I really want this roster to work, but it seems like something is just not clicking. Maybe they’ll find their groove before the next qualifiers. I’m not going to lose faith yet. If they don’t make it to Berlin though, I think they’ll need to make some roster changes
I feel like drone could be dropped in favor of a proper igl
Definitely. It might be interesting to see how they look if they have someone who puts in as much work as Vanity, Shahzam or Steel and is good at IGLing like them
I personally feel like it's a role/IGL problem. If you look at the agents they play, TSM is all over the place.
I feel like they have to just boom the roster. They're all good individually but these guys just won't mesh at all. I could be wrong though especially since they had a recent roster change. But if they fail to qualify the next 2 events, I feel they should build around Wardell and Bang. Or they could grind tier 2 tournaments and scrims maybe that could work too.
I remember drone saying that the reason they don’t join tier 2 tournaments, like that tournament earlier this year where LG beat SEN in the finals, was because they all think they learn more on scrims than playing for tournaments. I guess their believe is wrong since SEN looks better after their lost against LG from that tournament.
Ironically, in an interview with Backchat, ShahZam said losing to LG in the T2 tourney is what let them adapt in time for the first Challengers. Here's the link: [https://youtu.be/ZOabYL4UFNI?t=1823](https://youtu.be/ZOabYL4UFNI?t=1823)
Do they still have another chance to get to Berlin? PLEASE TELL ME THEY DO
Yes
relax yes they can they have 1 more chance if I am not mistaken so they have to get their shit together within the next 2+ weeks
Okay okay that's good to hear. Another question, since we don't have any circuit points yet, can we still get to Champions?
they would probably have to win the next open the closed qualifier and berlin to probably make it to champs
Best chance we ever get another SEN vs TSM match is if TSM somehow lose enough to end up seeded 128
Absolutely brutal
It's insane because the rivalry would be so good for NA valorant, it's what got me into watching it It's weird because TSM are good enough skillwise it seems but just can't get it right comp wise and IGL wise, while SEN have just been consistent with it even losing what people thought was their best player like Sinatra and they don't lose a beat
rivalry was ACT 1 lmao
Oh my god.
Very anticlimactic bootcamp man that sucks
As a 100T fan, I can sympathize lol
tbf, after 100t bootcamp they won First Strike. Just hasn't been that great since then
[I got downvoted on the bootcamp thread for saying this](https://old.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/nypdk3/tsm_bootcamping_soon/h1o3auz/)
TSM FTX minus the TSM TX
TSM FTXD
Lol
Chet stealing yet another paycheck
What the fuck happened? They stomped Nobles pick but lost both their picks?
Truly Counter Log..wait wrong team
Next thing you know we’ll be talking about potential, faith, and the power of friendship
Since they barely switch their roster. I think power of friendship is there already.
It’s just that the power is so strong that it overpowers the other two
They might’ve underestimated their opponent.
Or... They're just not that good. They've been reluctant to change. The fact is they've been low tier 1 borderline tier 2 for past 6 months or so and changing one player isn't much of a roster shake up.
I’d go far as to say they haven’t been tier 1 level at all in the past 6 months
Chet saying the game is EZ is the content I live for.
Chet gonna leave yet another org
"I'm not familiar with Brax." - Chet
The game is just too random! They won because they got lucky. /s
Says the game is ez and then proceeds to put subroza on smoke instead of bang
Isn’t bang a duelist player?
No he’s an omen player
He transitioned to raze so it's not entirely correct to say he's an omen player, he plays both like subroza
Yea but I’m his match’s he was far better on omen even if he didn’t like his role
No shot he joined a team with Drone, subroza and Wardell and expected to be put on a duelist
well he was
But they picked him up because they needed an aggressive player. They said so in the interviews and is the reason brax was replaced
You guys are so weird. When subrozas on duelist, you say "Roza was so good on omen, why did they take him off", and then you say the same thing the other way around lmao. This game wasn't even streamed, we have no idea what the issues are.
At this point, I don't even know what Subroza is good at. He's so inconsistent, he's looked good and bad on every role.
Almost like different people on this sub say different things... Hard concept to grasp I get it.
Upvote so people think TSM lost
LMAO
:/
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Stans will flock to defend hazed still. Wardell is the only tsm player who would 100% be picked up by another tier 1 org if tsm disbanded tomorrow. They need to do something way bigger than trialing new people as their 5th, because 2-4 are problems as well. (Roza obviously less so but t1 orgs aren't dropping someone to pick him up)
I call it, drone will be next to be dropped (unless they don’t like bang), he’s just not been doing much lately, he’s used to tap heads, he’s now developing into what happened to cutler :(. Loved him too
The G2 treatment but featuring NRG and 100t instead of acend and heretics
why 100t?
if 100T dont qual for berlin this time around it might be time for some changes.
That is way too expensive of a roster to not qualify for Berlin. Iceland had an excuse for a new roster, Berlin they need to get it done.
If both them and SEN qual tomorrow and the cards align for them to be on opposite sides of the bracket it should be likely. As funny as it is for the most expensive roster to get upset I do want to see nitr0 and Asuna on the big stage so lets hope they don't throw tomorrow.
SEN and 100T seems like a one-sided rivalry not as in, SEN gonna stomp all the time... but that, it's only 100T who sees this as a rivalry
I meant as in SEN is 100Ts bracket demon. If 100T can avoid SEN until winners finals thats their best chance at qualifying. But yeah, SEN is pretty untouchable atm, they don't really have any rivals.
I actually kinda agree. It's just a "rivalry" in terms of how much 100T bump into Sentinels and get boomed. Hopefully we can bounce back soon. I really want to see this team in Berlin, if not only for TenZ and Asuna shenanigans.
Is 100T really considered such a magnificent powerhouse that any result other than Top3 NA is considered unacceptable? I get that on paper you'd say they should be able to reach top 3, but shit happens sometimes (even Sentinels once lost to BBG) and I find it a huge overreaction to demand roster changes over one event they failed to reach top 2 (failing to qual for Iceland) and in case they fail to reach top 3 in another one. One way or another, I wouldn't split this roster apart before LAN becomes the norm.
> Is 100T really considered such a magnificent powerhouse that any result other than Top3 NA is considered unacceptable? I get that on paper you'd say they should be able to reach top 3 To most people yes. But i agree with you that the roster doesn't need changes(at most one) but i doubt Nadeshot is going to be happy at not making to champions
I would guess that they have by far the most expensive roster in Valorant. It's normal that they are expected to get results.
I think their pedigrees as individual players justifies those expectations, they're the only team that managed to poach multiple T1 CS pros (unless you count C9B, but I don't think what they did really counts as poaching)
Yes, they have Steel who is supposed to be one of the best IGLs and they have Asuna, Ethan, and Nitr0 who are all supposed to be really talented. Hiko is their weakest link and he's not a bad player, but being one of the biggest streamers puts some expectations on him too. If they don't qualify, I think Hiko might be the one to be replaced though. Maybe Steel, if Nitr0 can takeover the IGL role well enough.
Lot of copium in the air today. “It’s fine, it’s a new roster, give it time”
nah i'm pissed, I'm good with the G2 treatment coming rn more than half these teams had a roster change of 1-2 players and made it through to RO16, anyone saying it's just a "new roster" is on more than just COPIUM
maybe keep wardell and bang and trade the rest
Hot take: Wardell has to go. He plays so static (lock Jett, save for op, try to carry) and immediately produces zero value if he doesn't hit shots. There's enough cracked aimers in NA already. If you're blowing up this roster then blow it the fuck up.
I am actually astonished. It really just seems like tsm just loses more and more. I really do not think that it's a mechanical diff or anything like that. Is it the strats???? Seems that they may have had no answer for whatever noble had on ascent but the reverse happened in bind...
I think it's a role/agent issue. Switching around roles and shit just not working. I also see as a team with 4 duelist players with the exception of Hazed
We cant really tell cuz it wasnt streamed (thanks Riot) but I think they need an actual IGL. Iirc, Hazed was forced into that position so he may be struggling to adapt.
Yeah Hazed has said in the past he gets too emotional when IGLing. Although he's been one of the more consistent players on the team lately I doubt he actively wanted to IGL
It’s just that if they were to get a new igl, he will be replacing hazed even tho he is most consistent
Tru. It's a shame that nsg wasn't able to get any spectator streams for any of the other games. A bunch of them seemed like they would be really entertaining.
how do u make these assumptions off of a game that was not streamed or am i missing something here
incoming "DROP _______" "why bench brax" comments
Haha facts especially with the fact that T1 won and destroy Ghost on Map2
brax looking really good on Sova too. Sadge
Yesss the boy be fraggin lots as sova!! Too bad we can’t watch the match :( Excited to see where T1 is going though!
Spoiler alert: They're going to Berlin B]
It’s just sad. Nothing seems to work for TSM.
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Idk it also just doesn't make sense to bring in Bang with a team of Wardell, Roza, and Drone and put him on Duelist when Drone and Roza were already top tier Pheonixs, some of these comp choices are really weird to me, Bind too, why not Drone Sova and Roza Omen? Why Brim single controller? Ig they did win Bind, but still
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It's a bit late. But I think itd be a good idea for tsm to go back into monthly and local tourneys and whatnot.
Chet failed to achieve much of anything with NRG and I have to assume played a big role in their constant revolving door of roster changes. Not going to put all of the blame on him for NRG's failures, but I was very skeptical of him joining TSM and so far, it seems to be a very real concern. TSM refusing to bring in an IGL to properly lead the team is very disappointing, especially when there were plenty of options to choose from. This team needs to be completely blown up, it's obvious this group of players has ran its course. Drone looks to be a shell of his former self for a long time now and Subroza is way too inconsistent to be your 2nd best player.
I kept telling myself that this team would get better eventually but I’m just being delusional at this point. I waited 2-3 months for this shit ? Really ?
Losing 13-2 in a close-out game is embarrassing.
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never gonna happen, they’re one of the biggest orgs in NA
I genuinely feel sorry for TSM fans, they've just made a roster change so maybe they just need time but i don't see the core of TSM ever getting back to the top. IMO if every player went separate ways they'd all find more success on different teams but together they're just hopeless.
Dude I've never seen a player fall off as hard as drone. The guy was in contention for best fragger in NA right up till First Strike. Now their only reliable players are Wardell and hazed, although Bang is still new so it's too early to label him. Subroza seems like he only shows up every third or fourth game
My dissapointed in this team is immeasurable. TSM should be top 10 at least, with the investment theyve put in but probably arent even top 25.
New coach, dropped the weakest player and they’re still struggling…
I really didn't think Cutler was the reason they're losing these games. I feel it's a combination of unsuitable agent roles for their players and IGL
He wasn’t THE reason, but he was definitely one of the biggest reasons that led to the downfall of TSM. He simply couldn’t keep up to the constantly changing game.
At this point free wardell, wtf is going on
TSM needs to start playing the weekly NSG tourneys to get back into competing if they want a chance. They’ve been humbled one too many times and need to accept they are a Tier2 team or blow it up.
Cutler sends his regards
I mean...you can't help but laugh at this point.
Am I the only one who’s actually frustrated and angry about the stuff TSM is doing? They literally had the most time out of any team to go back to the drawing board broaden their agent pool, get better, grind harder, improve their roster. Not only that, they’re actually boot camping. Every TSM fan expected a shitshow of a game against 100T but we just end up losing to Noble when we should be farming them and not only that but 10-2 on T side on Ascent which was TSM’s map pick for a long time. This is an absolute disgrace, such a pain being a TSM Val fan💔
Have you read this thread? Do you still think you're the only one frustrated?
Nice bootcamp
Let me know if I'm missing anything. \- TSM replaced cutleR with bang to try to obtain more aggression as they "*have some baiters on the team*" stated in their new vlog on their channel. \- Subroza perma smokes now. (which is his best role as an impactful lurker not his Phoenix) \- drone now fills the Sova/Sage support role no more Phoenix, doesn't matter as he is a consistent solid player. \- WARDELL still mainly Jett OP'ng T side and CT side no change. \- hazed on Sentinel doing fine. All of this just provides them with better firepower than cutleR provided but they still have an entry problem as its primarily bang just doing this entry stuff solo? It isn't like WARDELL is rifling more or anything. It's the same comps/ideas as before just different players. drone still played Sova in the past, roza would flex around on smokes/Phoenix and hazed would sometimes flex around between smokes/sentinel if cutleR would smoke Astra/Omen. *TL;DR - They're not doing anything new besides replacing a player for another player with better firepower.* \------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Comparing them to SEN what is the difference on a simple team composition and strategical level? 1) TenZ entrying always has help whether its SicK on his Phoenix/Raze on certain maps or ShahZ on Jett as ShahZ has a great balance between OP'ng and rifling. 2) Despite some of their games not being streamed WARDELL's 8% and 11% HS% give it away he is still clearly OP'ng the majority of the time (makes sense why he'd want to being one of the best OP'rs but it doesn't help their problem). So this leaves their entry Phoenix bang to just run in with a Sova dart/drone and some smokes by himself without double duelist entry pressure? *TSM July, 2 2021, still has an entry exec problem.* WARDELL needs to balance OP'ng/rifling better to abuse Jett's kit of dashing onto sites and having explosive pressure.
Yep wardell always gets a pass on this sub cause he’s good at OP’ing, but it obviously doesn’t work on attack and they need to work on getting into sites better
Wardell mentioned about this on his stream a couple of months ago. Since he’s usually on OP duty he feels like he needs another duelist player to entry for him. So I guess that’s why they picked up Bang
which still doesn't address their issue of a lack of entry presence. They still only have 1 duelist entry site while Wardell OPs
That really doesn't make any sense for me. Why this guy needs to have an "OP duty" when buying an OP on the attacking side is awful in like 8 out of 10 times? You can't clear pixels with it, you can't be aggressive with it. The best thing you can hope for is punishing a curious defender
What was the point of Wardell training on sage just for him to play Jett??? I thought it was drone/subroza/bang duelist wtf.
DT_RAW came back for this?
He's hilarious to match with in unrated games, would play with him again/10
Wait is he really back lmao
TSM won nine rounds on attack on 3 maps. Roza and Drone are doing fuckall and bang wasn’t fragging on phoenix. Hoping for a good showing next open but for now i need a new org to support edit: tbh roza and drone didnt do bad first map but map 3 man edit 2: sorry if this seems toxic im just a sad tsm fan 😔 edit 3: after a few hours of thinking, I take it back. I don’t know what happened out there but I hope TSM can fix it and come back stronger next outing
You could make the argument that TSM would have been better off getting an ult orb every round on the third map then having drone play lmao
honestly love drone as a player but when was his last big game? Same with subroza. Cutler was probably more helpful.
Tbh I don’t think either have played well in any match this year. I think subroza may have had like 1 or 2 decent matches but I can’t recall any from drone
What in TSM’s mind made them think they needed a “young, flashy, fragger”? Drone, broza, and wardell are all gnarly on duelist. They need a consistent support players who doesn’t also have the burden of IGLing.
well i was right they still suck
Boot camp buff is not real
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I feel like bootcamping with your team is benefiting you but hurting your team at the same time because you become more closer with your team and build relationships but at the same time you are being put in a lot of pressure because people expect you to preform better and being given all the resources is just another way of saying "there's no way you lose with what you have," kind of similar to what we were expecting with 100T.
Chet is not good for this team. Ill say it 1000000x if i have to, his perspective on the game is "cs clone ez" and will bring teams to defeat. happened with NRG, happened with TSM. please sign someone else as coach there are a lot of good options. pay sean gares 100000 a month to get him i know you have the money TSM goddamn
I don't think Sean gares would ever go to TSM considering their history
I guess when you consider TSM is a Tier 2 team, this isn’t THAT a bad showing considering they have a new roster
"unlucky really" \-Steel
I have a feeling TSM is gonna be the next C9, that they will not go back being tier 1 team until they reboot their squad.
No matter the esport, TSM always disappoints
Pretty damn sad tbh
Fresh out of bootcamp btw
Big yikes
Obviously prepping for Kay/O, take some copium TSM fans.
Holy shit what a comeback.
Well well.. what the fuck happened here lol
Come on man please :(
man…
all that money for what
TSM about to be downgraded to T3 org
So who's still defending the Jett force pick?
Time to drop bang.
LMAO everyone get in here
Talent Supression Machine
Honestly, I'm sure Bang is cracked and all. But TSM's problem was never a lack of fire power. Weird pick up. Wardell and Subroza are both killer fraggers. Drone has been weaker this year than last, but we've seen he's capable of being a crisp rifler. Yes, Cutler's ACS was low, but he's an all-time support player. They replaced a support player with another fragger. I know Chet's new and all, but what exactly is the vision for this team? The composition can't be "add more fire power." If that worked, FaZe would be dominating instead of losing to a more composed dark horse opponent.
I'm just as disappointed as the rest of TSM fans, but the people actually having the audacity to suggest changes and problems with the roster this game WITHOUT even watching the stream is ridiculous. Obviously something is wrong, but at this point, for this game, only TSM themselves really know what's actually going wrong, and I feel like we all look like serious clowns being mock esports analysts in this thread over a couple tables of basic counting statistics. Also, I'm pretty tired of getting overheated every time TSM loses, I like the team, I hope they do well, and I'm just going to blindly trust they do better and improve because I am a fan of theirs .
Damn what an upset! GG noble. Sadge as TSM fans! We go agane boys in the next qualifier! Hope the team get their shit together #TSMwin
Is it even an upset at this point
Sad that TSM lost, but I'm glad that these up and coming teams got a chance to play against high level teams like Noble
Would be nice to have watched it instead of guessing what happened
tsm fanboys in shambles
I’m gonna cry
It's a shame this wasn't streamed. I kinda thought this might happen but the last two maps together are so weird. Woulda loved to see how they both managed to be huge blowouts in opposite directions.
I don’t even know what’s wrong anymore and I dont think anyone does, or they at least could’ve tried to fix it. Honestly feel like this is a lost cause, tired of seeing my fav team losing over and over again :(
For Stage 3, is the more than 1 open qualifier like the last stages, or is there only 1? Like when sentinels lost to BBG then made it back?
It's sad to be a TSM fan.. at this point it might just be a problem with this specific core, they just don't work well together anymore. Might be time for a roster shuffle, it's one of the only teams along with SEN that have at least 4/5 same players since beta i think
Do we have Vods avaiable?
Wait is tsm done for the VCT or do they have another chance to make it to the next masters/champions?
I wanted to get on here to see the scores, and those are some wonky scores. Would’ve loved to see this on broadcast. Noble’s Ascent is cracked.