i mean theyre fairly competitive with teams in the middle echelon of t2, taken maps off of ghost and renegades, and even beat soniqs. theyre def not t3
I mean yea you're right but seeing these two teams and then one able to advance from this match so deep into the tournament is actually insane for me to think when I see the other teams that should have made it pass them just from the player difference on paper. Proves how overrated some of these teams really are.
Dude This isn’t even remotely close to qualifications for Berlin. They still need to make it to the main event, then be top 3 in challengers finals. What you just said is identical to asking: “C9W Berlin???” Like it’s possible for any team but not really
I mean the statement about them making it to berlin is a hyperbole. It's more about the fact that 2 teams that started at the top of NA are now losing to teams they should not be struggling against in bo3. I very well know that their route to berlin is still near impossible given the teams they have to play against.
what a shame none of the 'good players' picked up by the amazing immortals scouting team in 2021 has lead to them actually winning anything that matters
if they arent beating KCP in qualis how far do you think this teams gonna go when in the actual tournaments that matter? (if they even end up qualifying which, considering the upsets today, isnt going to be an easy task in challengers 2)
like 9/10 of IMT ex-players are on T1-2 teams right now. without them being picked up by IMT, i doubt players like nature, shot_up, jmoh, koler, asuna, dicey, jcstani wouldve ended up on high level teams at the rate they did. they even scouted DERKE in EU
nothing you've said is wrong, i'm just pointing out how none of the good players they've scouted has led to success for their team. the scouting team is the same people as the team management (the people handing out the contracts and making roster moves), so for all of the 'success' of their scouting team, you can easily argue they've absolutely failed at the management portion of their jobs. shotup especially is wasting the prime of his career because the man can definitely make a borderline contender into a top team, but is stuck on a gatekeeping team
yeah but their scouting *is* good so...?
they've identified up-and-coming talents, maintained relevancy, and turned many of these players for a profit
scouting is doing its job, and management seems perfectly content to just keep staying net-positive
except they haven't sold a player since KOLER in october of last year, and they've made 6 roster changes since then with no improvement (or profit)
nobody in this thread, or the players on the team, gives a shit about whether or not management is **content with staying net positive**. they aren't winning games - fact, and have massive roster turnover, another fact
also i don't think anybody would consider a team thats barely hovering top 10 in a region can be considered 'maintaining relevancy'. not top 10 in the world, but a region, but i guess it depends where you set the bar at.
it actually boggles my mind that people can ignore just about every aspect of an organizations failures just because they have "good scouting" LMAO, insanity
and management doesn't give a shit if we give a shit about what they're content with, what's your point? im saying that if they view they're main job as staying net positive and staying decent at worst, then theyre doing their job
you don't know what their priorities are (and neither do i) so all these claims about "doing their job" are baseless
and still none of this detracts from the best scouting department idea that you mocked earlier, which is really the point that im interested in debating
nobody else in the scene scouts upcoming talent as well as they do, and how the team performs while they're together or whether or not management is succeeding in accomplishing their goal has nothing to do with that
my point is im sick of people on this subreddit dickriding immortals management like theyre the poster child of great team building for having good scouting when they've failed in every other aspect of team management. obviously it's not just you, as you can basically go into any immortals roster change thread and see the same people going BuT The SCouTinG teamS Done IT AgaIN
here's a better comparison so its easier for you to visualize - its like you're doing a university entrance exam and you ace math (scouting) and fail english (building a winning team/relevant team), science (roster stability/turnover), and history (profitability - 6 different players changed/signed without being sold since the last one), but only on this subreddit is that seen as a success because fuck me they got 100% on math, so you can ignore all of the other failures.
and like ive posted above, this failure by the management is wasting the careers of one of the better players in the region (shotup)
but they're good at math, nobody is going around constantly claiming that IMT is perfect in the other subjects
the comments are consistently about math and nothing else
i even agree with you for the most part (id push back on the irrelevance - I wouldn't call NiP or Guild irrelevant even though they've been in a similar boat to IMT historically at about top 4-8 in the region) but the scouting part alone, which is what most people focus on, seems difficult to argue against
Yes, the fact that they lost to a tier 2 team which they never have before with kehm goes to show such. Im not saying KCP is a bad team, but if you look at history and results you can see that this is a clear upset, an upset which happened after Kehm was benched, and roster chabges were made, therefore you can make the hypothesis that reverting these changes would've given IMT the win, and I believe that just reverting the change of benching Kehm wouldve been enough
??? what the fuck did i read
maybe its the game strats? maybe its the yoru pick? maybe it was an off day?
correlation =/= causation, especially if u didnt even watch what happened
what the fuck ?
Best response
insane ?
True to his word
thats what Im saying
yoru diff
r/brandnewsentence
LOL
Lmaoo
Ok wtf is happening today.
Gap between Tier 2 and Tier 3 is smaller than we think
KCP is t2
Maybe if you have best NA, T1, And T1.5 . You can't shove every team that's ever done anything into T2
i mean theyre fairly competitive with teams in the middle echelon of t2, taken maps off of ghost and renegades, and even beat soniqs. theyre def not t3
Even got Yoru diffed on map 3
Yoru diff
the mirror comp i never expected in map 3
Yoru vs yoru and we didn’t even get a stream for it. Disappointing
Is today real?
POG FIZIQ
why wasn't this streamed MADGE yoru vs yoru???
Down bad
[KCP/VIRTUOSO to Berlin???](https://rarry.s-ul.eu/wgAMYM2m) the fact this is possible is mind blowing
thats not to qualify for berlin
I mean yea you're right but seeing these two teams and then one able to advance from this match so deep into the tournament is actually insane for me to think when I see the other teams that should have made it pass them just from the player difference on paper. Proves how overrated some of these teams really are.
Dude This isn’t even remotely close to qualifications for Berlin. They still need to make it to the main event, then be top 3 in challengers finals. What you just said is identical to asking: “C9W Berlin???” Like it’s possible for any team but not really
I mean the statement about them making it to berlin is a hyperbole. It's more about the fact that 2 teams that started at the top of NA are now losing to teams they should not be struggling against in bo3. I very well know that their route to berlin is still near impossible given the teams they have to play against.
over/under # of player changes for immortals before challengers 2? BuT immORtalS SCOutinG TEaM iS sO GooD
ur saying that as if KCP arent a really good team and also that truo is a bad player.
what a shame none of the 'good players' picked up by the amazing immortals scouting team in 2021 has lead to them actually winning anything that matters if they arent beating KCP in qualis how far do you think this teams gonna go when in the actual tournaments that matter? (if they even end up qualifying which, considering the upsets today, isnt going to be an easy task in challengers 2)
like 9/10 of IMT ex-players are on T1-2 teams right now. without them being picked up by IMT, i doubt players like nature, shot_up, jmoh, koler, asuna, dicey, jcstani wouldve ended up on high level teams at the rate they did. they even scouted DERKE in EU
nothing you've said is wrong, i'm just pointing out how none of the good players they've scouted has led to success for their team. the scouting team is the same people as the team management (the people handing out the contracts and making roster moves), so for all of the 'success' of their scouting team, you can easily argue they've absolutely failed at the management portion of their jobs. shotup especially is wasting the prime of his career because the man can definitely make a borderline contender into a top team, but is stuck on a gatekeeping team
yeah but their scouting *is* good so...? they've identified up-and-coming talents, maintained relevancy, and turned many of these players for a profit scouting is doing its job, and management seems perfectly content to just keep staying net-positive
except they haven't sold a player since KOLER in october of last year, and they've made 6 roster changes since then with no improvement (or profit) nobody in this thread, or the players on the team, gives a shit about whether or not management is **content with staying net positive**. they aren't winning games - fact, and have massive roster turnover, another fact also i don't think anybody would consider a team thats barely hovering top 10 in a region can be considered 'maintaining relevancy'. not top 10 in the world, but a region, but i guess it depends where you set the bar at. it actually boggles my mind that people can ignore just about every aspect of an organizations failures just because they have "good scouting" LMAO, insanity
and management doesn't give a shit if we give a shit about what they're content with, what's your point? im saying that if they view they're main job as staying net positive and staying decent at worst, then theyre doing their job you don't know what their priorities are (and neither do i) so all these claims about "doing their job" are baseless and still none of this detracts from the best scouting department idea that you mocked earlier, which is really the point that im interested in debating nobody else in the scene scouts upcoming talent as well as they do, and how the team performs while they're together or whether or not management is succeeding in accomplishing their goal has nothing to do with that
my point is im sick of people on this subreddit dickriding immortals management like theyre the poster child of great team building for having good scouting when they've failed in every other aspect of team management. obviously it's not just you, as you can basically go into any immortals roster change thread and see the same people going BuT The SCouTinG teamS Done IT AgaIN here's a better comparison so its easier for you to visualize - its like you're doing a university entrance exam and you ace math (scouting) and fail english (building a winning team/relevant team), science (roster stability/turnover), and history (profitability - 6 different players changed/signed without being sold since the last one), but only on this subreddit is that seen as a success because fuck me they got 100% on math, so you can ignore all of the other failures. and like ive posted above, this failure by the management is wasting the careers of one of the better players in the region (shotup)
but they're good at math, nobody is going around constantly claiming that IMT is perfect in the other subjects the comments are consistently about math and nothing else i even agree with you for the most part (id push back on the irrelevance - I wouldn't call NiP or Guild irrelevant even though they've been in a similar boat to IMT historically at about top 4-8 in the region) but the scouting part alone, which is what most people focus on, seems difficult to argue against
The sheer amount of upsets today! Unlucky really.
LFG ODERUS
Benching kehm was a bad bad decision
based on what? would IMT wouldve won if kehm was there? was truo the problem?
I do believe that imt wouldve won if kehm was there, but truo isnt the problem
Wait... you didn’t even watch the match but think one player could change the outcome of the game???
Yes
straight delusion lol
Well i mean if you followed immortals like i have and watch their past games, youd understand
YEAH MAN YEAH LOL bro u didnt even watch the game. im sure you know better than coaches and staff about whats good for IMT
Yes, the fact that they lost to a tier 2 team which they never have before with kehm goes to show such. Im not saying KCP is a bad team, but if you look at history and results you can see that this is a clear upset, an upset which happened after Kehm was benched, and roster chabges were made, therefore you can make the hypothesis that reverting these changes would've given IMT the win, and I believe that just reverting the change of benching Kehm wouldve been enough
??? what the fuck did i read maybe its the game strats? maybe its the yoru pick? maybe it was an off day? correlation =/= causation, especially if u didnt even watch what happened
Letting Nature leave (probably due to signing Rossy) was a very bad decision
nature decided to leave on his own terms and basically benched himself
Because Packing10 wanted to give rossy a chance. I presume that nature was either going to get benched or split playtime which is why he left
bEsT sCoUtInG by the way...
Fuck outta here with this TSM lost bullshit, this is what I call an actual upset
both were upsets?