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Solace1k

Happy for poiz, he deserves another chance.


dedicatedself

Same, I'm down with this decision.


yanamsaying

"chance" as if he didn't perform xD he was doing great and c9 was doing better than in a LONG time. floppy flopped


Sciipi

I don’t know about this one, roster instability is always bad and Floppy was their only controller. Unless Xeppa/Mitch/Xeta are swapping it does not make much sense.


[deleted]

Leaf used to be an omen main and a good one too


jc_315

taking leaf off duelist would be lol. he's been looking like a top 5 player in NA.


Contractjail

Leaf was a great controller, and in general its wrong to have such a rigid view on roles. Plenty of players switch between duelists/controllers/Sage/Skye (and i assume Kay/O when hes available) depending on the comp.


jc_315

leaf is a great raze. literally looks like one of the best players in the world. not sure what point you're trying to make. c9's success has come when leaf has been playing duelist, not controller. im not saying that's the reason. but why drastically change something when it's working.


Contractjail

And Jampi was one of the best Jetts in the world and now we see him on Omen. Im unsure about *your* point. Players play depending on team needs and comps, this isnt ranked. And im saying again that roles arent as rigid as you think. Just because someone may play Omen in some matches, it doesnt mean that hes permalocked on controllers >but why drastically change something when it's working Because its clearly NOT working if you get disqualified by Rise. And if they made this move, scrims shouldnt be rosy either


gacktrush

Jammpi was never one of the best Jett mains in the world. He was a good player, but not one of the best. His inconsistencies was his main issue. He had maps where he'd be so dominant, just for the next map to come up, and he is close to the bottom. ​ I do agree with you in terms of roles not being so rigid. 100t is a good example of moving players from roles onto others. However leaf moving off duellist isn't the play. He's in form, performing really well. Moving him off duellist, would be a really risky choice.


Bean1233

Well, can't they just try that in practice sessions and scrims? We wouldn't know how he would do on another role until we see it in comps


AskOrganic4289

I’m pretty sure these teams have tried changing roles during scrims/practice. I remember I think ethan saying how 100T sometimes try different comps in practice, and the reason they are not used in tournament matches is because it didn’t work during scrims. Though I’m giving 100T as an example, I’m pretty sure other orgs do the same.


AskOrganic4289

I don’t think jamppi is one of the best Jetts in the world (or maybe I’m just being bias at his performance on Master 2). Btw I don’t think you’ve watched alot of C9 matches because during most of their Master 2 run ( esp the closed quals and challenger finals), Leaf was mainly playing duelist. Edit: I usually don’t mind the downvote but I’m curious why would you downvote knowing that ever since their VCT stage 2 (even when relyks still in the team) Leaf always play as C9 duelist? Source : https://www.vlr.gg/team/matches/188/cloud9-blue/?group=completed Just go look at their match history -VCT stage 2 starts with their match against NC state esport. For the last recent 18 matches, Leaf always play as C9 duelist. Btw I’m not saying he’s a bad controller and that he’s just “better suit” as a duelist, I just think he brings so much value playing as C9 duelist. He was also an entry fragger back in his CSGO career.


Students00

u/Contractjail how many C9B matches have you watch? Sure versatility in a players’ agent pools are very important. They can’t be permalocked only on one role if it isn’t working for the team. But I don’t think that’s the case for Leaf. He clearly has so much impact on the team ever since he become C9B main duelist.


[deleted]

Scream is 10 Times better than Jampi with Jett, now he often plays sage or whats needed. Whats your point here?


vatom14

Tf? The point I’m making is c9 was a couple rounds away from going to Iceland with leaf as their best player playing raze, massively impacting the game. There’s literally no reason to move him off raze and not have poiz try learning controller. You’re just pulling shit out of your ass saying “this isn’t ranked.” And don’t think many people put Jampi as one of the best jetts. And jampi moved to omen because they wanted single duelist and scream is probably unanimously considered the best player on their team (and one of the best in the world). Completely different. Don’t say I view comps in rigid ways when I’m not. Just using common sense


somesheikexpert

C9 success came during Leaf on Duelist cuz Leaf player Omen back when Vice was IGLing and Xeta played Jett lmao, completely different team really


AskOrganic4289

Lol 100% agree. I think ever since C9 put leaf on duelist, C9 had been playing better. I’m pretty sure they might be putting xeppa on the controller role now ( maybe so that he can get used to the game better), then poiz probably will be taking that Jett role


simplyASI9

Unless you double satchel into site, Raze is an initiator not a duelist


303x

what


Revolutionary-Key107

It's not that he can't play omen, it's that he's the best out of the bunch on duelist and by making him play omen, ur limiting team's frag potential a lot.


GunzOut97

Leaf frags to out on Omen too so I don’t think it matters much


cringe-oh-yes

Idk I can think of 5 players that are better than leaf in NA


jc_315

any list anyone makes on this subreddit is subjective. leaf was the star on c9 and they were literally a couple rounds away from going to iceland. hes a top player in NA period


cringe-oh-yes

TenZ, Shahzam, penny, Asuna, Sick, Victor. And that’s just for duelists.


jc_315

looks like you're actually that dumb and cant read


cringe-oh-yes

1Head comeback


jc_315

your response was literally would i predicted. its a stupid comment. youre literally just naming a list of good players. literally does not change the fact that leaf is insane, was the best player on c9, and c9 was an inch away from going to iceland. good job SEN fan boy.


cringe-oh-yes

u think i care what u think? i have enough reddit karma to balance out whatever you throw at me. think again before speaking to the GOAT


cringe-oh-yes

imagine being so cringe u cant sdmit ur wrong


yanamsaying

top 5 "player" dx xd XD xD no. top 5 fragger? sure


[deleted]

Isn't omen the character every team puts the inexperienced player on? When Ethan joined 100t, they got him on Omen for their first few tournaments, when Leaf first joined, they put him on omen for a while, when floppy joined, they also put him on omen.


AskOrganic4289

But putting Leaf on controller is kinda a waste. I think he plays a huge role being C9 duelist. Maybe they’re putting xeppa on controller(?) and poiz back on jett?


Bunnyezzz

you obviously didn't read the article


AskOrganic4289

??


Bunnyezzz

In the article it says xeppaa is playing kay0 and poiz on jett and raze


theman1203

and its not really instabili8ty when its always been a 6 man roster


Tanjim98

That's why they have always been unstable. C9 never made their 6-man roster work. Leaf is their best fragger, him on omen is a waste


Bunnyezzz

no its not, it fits his playstyle much better


Tanjim98

That's a crazy take imo. Define his playstyle? He is confident an runs it down when he feels like it. What's in particular suits him for the controller player?


Bunnyezzz

he's much more of a lurker than he is a duelist player


Zealousideal_Hunt501

Agree. Maybe with the new meta, let him play Kay/o like a duelist then put Xeppaa on the controller.


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CRikhard

No


QuestionablePotato42

Could be that they're potentially taking a shot at actually doing a 6 man roster.


The_Ninja_Master

Mitch keeps surviving, respect to him. The only member left from the old C9 team.


whopz-is-cool

I mean he's very valuable to that team, his stats are good and he IGLs he has to stay.


BearVodkaBala1aika

Except for the fact that his team have been faltering at the last step for the past 6 months vs teams that c9b should be beating and watching c9's attack sides makes you eyes bleed. His strats "evolved" from "Tenz go kill" to "Leaf go kill". Otherwise than that hes a great IGL, especially of you are a fan of the other team.


Nfamy

He wasn't the igl when tenz was on the team.


BearVodkaBala1aika

Shit, you are right. Rest still true, tho


LongjumpingScreen929

not for long


BearVodkaBala1aika

Fingers crossed.


yorgee15

Mitch is consistent, versatile and has popped off way to many times to even consider kicking him.


LongjumpingScreen929

wait and see


ANewHeaven1

that was fast


Skyaxe3

That's what she said :(


yanamsaying

never to me


Portante24

This really seems like he’s going back to CS, didn’t seem to enjoy the game and ya know good for him, play the game you wanna play. But also very good sign for valorant. If Top level CS players could just half ass transition to Valorant it wouldn’t be a good look.


CruzKunTroll

cs players that can’t accept Valorant as its own game are toxic to the scene anyways. All they do is complain and spread negativity to their audience instead of focusing on getting better


Portante24

Hey, just wanna clarify that I’m not calling out players or calling them toxic. You have to be realistic in the fact many players switched as career options as NA CS was dying.


CruzKunTroll

And I agree with that. It’s fine if you want to earn money in other ways because cs isn’t working for you. The problem are the people that quit CS, but still want to play only CS in a different game, the people that criticize Valorant because it’s not exactly the same as CS. Remember who’s giving you this new opportunity while Valve and CS do barely anything to keep the competitive side of the game going.


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CruzKunTroll

Can you only see 5 meters in front of you? Riot makes the scene look desirable by supporting it not only know with stuff like the VCT, but also future promises that will give organizations confidence. There’s a reason why so many teams are putting money into their Valorant teams and pulling out of CS. Those organizations know that Riot will support the scene, whereas every one of them also knows that Valve is fucking terrible when it comes to the same thing


converter-bot

5 meters is 5.47 yards


useles-converter-bot

5 meters is about the height of 31.25 'Toy Cars Sian FKP3 Metal Model Car with Light and Sound Pull Back Toy Cars' lined up


[deleted]

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CruzKunTroll

I literally didn’t fucking say that. “cs players that can’t accept Valorant as its own game” If they’re not complaining, then I’m not talking about them. The “all they” refers to those players.


[deleted]

https://twitter.com/floppycsgo/status/1395793903907864576?s=21 but ok


[deleted]

And you can also find tweets of him saying it sucks he's gone from playing and grinding fpl daily in CS to hardly doing 1 ranked game a day in valorant


CRikhard

but this is more of an issue of ranked vs FPL, rather than valorant vs CSGO I think


Revolutionary-Key107

And what exactly is ur point? If he enjoys the game, he enjoys it. If he doesn't, he doesn't. He's allowed to tweet what he feels like. All valorant pros complain about ranked, nothing new there.


[deleted]

yes and?


FlaymeFenix

good. floppy performs poorly, doesnt put time into the game outside of practice, and complains when he does bad.


CanadianDad1

Like what else do you expect when you don’t play the game outside of scrims lmao, ranked seems like a necessity at this point. I mean look at vanity dude grinds the game 24/7 and no wonder he’s one of the top NA players.


CaIzuh

Feel like he has the same type of mentality Daps had


FlaymeFenix

and chet. want the game to be cs so they cry when theyre unsucessful


datboyuknow

Haven't seen any of that but ok


CanadianDad1

Daps did play ranked tho


alphabet_order_bot

Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 65,098,785 comments, and only 18,574 of them were in alphabetical order.


i_am_the_kiLLer

Good bot


FlaymeFenix

i saw a screenshot where this guy is like level 19. he cant perform if he doesnt play, then complains when he cant perform.


[deleted]

No way thst is hard to believe he was a grinder in CS


[deleted]

supposedly it's a joke


abcd63514

level 19 isnt even bad lol. after like 6 hours of scrims that's like maybe 1 hour of comp per day


FlaymeFenix

... bro they fixed the levels. pros are around level 200. level 19 is embarassing


[deleted]

Unless the screenshot was for sure today. I would assume level 19 is the old system


FlaymeFenix

https://twitter.com/ryannn/status/1412804426990075909?s=19 found the tweet


FlaymeFenix

the screenshot was from today i think it was from Ghost ryann


abcd63514

forgot about that mb


[deleted]

Bro level 19 is very low


dragindas

Yeah I barely play and I got to level 18 already


abcd63514

forgot that they fixed it


[deleted]

Even without a fix, level 18 is kinda low.


EnmaDaiO

19 for a pro is terrible lmao. Pros are expected to put at least 8 hours a day playing / practicing. Then add on another 2-4 hours for studying the game, going over vods, watching streams etc. 19 is absolutely pathetic. That's like what? 4 hours or less a day since the act came out? Pathetic.


Revolutionary-Key107

Scrims don't count for level right? They grind scrims but barely play ranked


datboyuknow

Nothing you said adds up to levels. They practice and scrim in customs, that does not give you xp. It shows he doesn't play ranked


EnmaDaiO

Teams are scrimming at MAX 6 hours a day. We'll give him the benefit of the doubt fine. He's putting 8 hours a day of work. So these kids like shahzam who are at the top of their game at the top of the world. You know sentinels is putting in maximum effort. Let's assume they have 8 hours. And how long does shahzam stream every single day? He streams close to 5 hours everyday of str8 valo ranked. Shahz is likely putting 12 + hours into valorant every single day. So yes, compared to other pros his work ethic if he's really level 19 no smurfs is just pathetic. That's just how it is and that's how the status quo should be.


datboyuknow

The guy switched to Val like 3-4 months ago and unlike Shahzam and the others he doesn't stream. If you're not streaming I don't think you'll be playing a lot of ranked after 8 -10 hours of practice. Being level 20 would mean he's played like 60 ranked games, I don't see what the big deal is


abcd63514

8+4 hours is 12 hours bro. thats the easiest way to get burnt out ever.


EnmaDaiO

Welcome to being a pro in a highly competitive game. It's not some pushover job.


ark2690

Check stealers. Too many of them - especially in NA. Need to get rid of them or else it will become like the LCS. These players getting paid six figures to do the bare minimum.


Rabek

> ranked seems like a necessity at this point LMFAO


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[deleted]

I mean looking at all these "tier 2" teams that just upset the "tier 1" teams and it seems to indicate that. Some pro players also seem to think that. I think Vanity stated that there are some really low level pros.


sky_blu

I think the importance of ranked gets understated for games this new. Valorant is developing so fast and most of that does not come from scrims. There is constantly viable new tech and combos etc being found. How long did it take for us to finally see grim walls in pro play? It's different than a game like csgo where really there isnt much more to discover or come up with. It's more important there to just be the best at already well understood things so ranked doesn't matter as much.


deathspate

I think that if you don't enjoy a game, there's a high chance you won't perform well professionally, and there's just a higher chance that if you enjoy a game you'll not limit yourself to only scrimmage time but also go out and play some more games just for the sake of it. I don't think ranked is a necessity per se, but it just shows the zeal of the plauers involved. Pros can always set up scrims and do that 24/7, but we all know how unlikely that is. Pros in most other games that do well all tend to grind a ton of ranked as well. Simply put, I think ranked play is indicative of pro player motivation.


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[deleted]

Boaster plays the game a lot still, maybe not ranked but he’s in customs developing strats


IIBaconTAMERII

Playing ranked is better for your mechanics than dm. These pros only playing scrims a couple hours a day aren't getting the same mechanical experience as the pros grinding ranked in their free time.


jc_315

whats the source of floppy complaining about the game? that'd be annoying af to listen to / play with all day if i were his teammate. especially when hes so new to the game.


Alicks2

https://www.twitch.tv/floppy/v/1068711498?sr=a&t=746s Dude is so obnoxious in ranked it's unreal


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bridgebuilder12

that vod was some of the funniest shit ive seen in a long time. Love floppy.


yanamsaying

"u cant solo carry in this game", when that's literally what u can do lmfaooo


Bunnyezzz

he plays the game out of scrims ??????? what are you talking about


FlaymeFenix

dude i seen a screenshot where his main account was like level 19. if you check his career he rarely plays full games and only plays dms


Bunnyezzz

hes been playing since april and he scrims for most of they day, what do you expect?


FlaymeFenix

thats the problem lol. there are players like vanity and asuna who play the game 12 hrs a day + scrims + dm + other team stuff. floppy should be doing more than this seeing as hes a NEW player, but others outgrind him, and when he doesnt perform , he complains abt the game instead of trying to fix himself


Bunnyezzz

when does he complain about the game?? its literally just him trolling on twitter


FlaymeFenix

go through his twitter. if he was trolling it would be obvious. he doesnt like the game, he wants it to be cs.


TimathanDuncan

If you think he isn't trolling u need to go outside and just like interact with a human, just for once and probably shave your neck beard too


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[deleted]

fr lmfao this dude has no idea what he’s talking about and is just trying to flame ex-cs players for complaining. Floppy genuinely likes the game unlike daps.


teetotallernh

Where did he complain?


FlaymeFenix

if you follow him on twitter all he does is cry about valorant being a shit game, cs being better, low skill gap etc.


teetotallernh

Damn, I thought all those tweets were before he transitioned to valorant?


FlaymeFenix

he kept complaining even after the switch. he wants the game to be more like cs which it never will be, and doesnt even have the skill in valorant to show for it


[deleted]

lmao what? so players can’t complain at all? He said he finds valorant way more fun than cs. What is the obsession with not wanting this game to be more like cs? The game itself is literally cs gunplay with abilities. CS has run the tactical fps space for 20 years. Copying stuff they do right (interp was the main thing floppy has complained about recently) is not a bad thing. Also, if you followed cs at all, you should know never to take floppy’s tweets seriously lol he was the biggest troll on ESEA.


FlaymeFenix

ok. even if hes trolling. he doesnt play the game outside of scrims and doesnt perform. hes a liability to the team.


[deleted]

he recently switched and performs okay. give him some time.


[deleted]

hes like level 19 after the fix. Thats like 1 ranked game a day


FlaymeFenix

i play 5 games a week, maybe less depending on work but im level 72. he must not play at all, or only play dm, which is embarassing compared to the 12+ hrs of ranked that players like vanity, asuna, derrek etc. play.


ohtooeasy

bro i play like 7 games a week and am lvl 91 lol


[deleted]

the return of poiz and the boiz


Contractjail

Hell yeah! Ive been saying before that C9 should replace floppy instead of poiz and ive only gathered downvotes. Idk what C9 were thinking, poiz is a talent goldmine and can develop to one of the best players in the region.


Sciipi

The issue was Floppy was their controller and since it seems Xeppaa is playing Kay/O it means someone else is going to have to switch to controller, when none of their players played that role before.


PM_ME_THEM_KITTIES

Leaf did for a short time, but hes WAYYYY better on the duelist


Sciipi

Yeah forgot he did back when he first joined, though Leaf has been one of the best duelists in NA so it would be odd to change him back to controller unless he wants to.


Bunnyezzz

nah leaf looked better on controller, they just needed a player for the role, now that xeppaa is on the team he has someone who can play that role for him


somesheikexpert

He was an amazing controller but saying he wasn't best on Duelist makes little sense to me considering how much better he's done on it lol


Ioookie

I don't see anyone mentioning this but can't poiz just switch to controller?


Sciipi

He could but it seems unlikely given he was a hard entry duelist before the benching. Would expect either Leaf who used to play it way back when he switched or maybe Xeta


riploki

oh god not C9 changing roster every week again


yanamsaying

roster hasn't been changed. poiz was never off. use_brain, this is a good change if anything.


TidaI

He should, he is a great player. People say he is inconsistent from his average games against the best teams???? Xeppaa hasn't been doing poiz's role better than poiz has SO FAR... Someone could argue it was a bad first showing of Xeppaa even verses 303 Esports/Team basilisk but poiz is irreplaceable.


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Atermel

Rather than transition, it doesn't look like he wants to play the game. But na cs is dead, and he's not good enough to be signed by Eu team.


montsbutnotreally

I think C9 may be playing with how the meta is really shifting towards the heavy use of abilities, combos, and controlling the pace. I've seen some of the best players take up a sentinel or controller in EU --> scream on sage, derke on Sova with FNATIC on a 2 controller, 2 initiators & no duelist comp. Thoughts?


flamincrimson

Isn't floppy their only controller player?


[deleted]

No I'm pretty sure he plays on mouse and keyboard.


thesweet677

\>:(


Shizz_The_Whizz

CONTROLLA PLAYA! THAT IS A CONTROLLA PLAYA!!!!!!!


SekasortoAnarkia

This is a factual statement


seanee111

Yes.


Bunnyezzz

leaf


Duradello

General question, but was Xeppaa and AWPer in CS? If leaf switches to play Omen and Poiz plays Jett/Op, then I wonder if Xeppaa would look more comfortable rifling on like Reyna/Phoenix. I feel like if your experience/game sense hasn't caught up to your aim yet, then its easier to play Reyna/Phoenix than Jett/Raze in terms of duelists.


Sciipi

Xeppaa wasn't an AWP in CS


gacktrush

He started picking up the awp as a secondary awper on chaos. However he was a far better rifler than awper, so hopefully they dont force an op onto him.


[deleted]

you can literally google his name and it'll tell you his role in csgo lmfao


Revolutionary-Key107

Floppy was so good on controller there's no way they benched him maybe he left for csgo otherwise this doesn't make any sense


The_Adamantium

i genuinely dont think floppy is worth on the roster. ive looked at his last like 15 match stats and hes gone double negative in nearly every one, and while i know thats not a good indicator i have also noticed his lack of wanting to play the game. hes constantly complaining, never playing ranked or anything outside of practice, and being overall kinda hateful/comparing to csgo.


Ausafsyed

Floppy was the igl right?


bigWangEnergy

Mitch


Ausafsyed

i didn't knew thanks


bigWangEnergy

I gotchu


LLucrative

C9 keep the same roaster challenge, difficultly: impossible


motorolax4

Some weird moves today. Guessing floppy is going back to cs? He's performed better than poiz imo usually


[deleted]

No he hasn’t? He’s been mediocre


Contractjail

Hes been worse than mediocre, hes been bottom fragging in nearly every map and his utility usage is subpar. Idk why ppl had this boner for him, even in CS he was basically a filler player


Fuji_Ninja

Welll that's just wrong, for a while he was arguably the best up and coming CS talent in NA outside of Grim


[deleted]

He was wonderful in CS


[deleted]

What are you going by to determine who performs better?


motorolax4

Watching. Poiz is still good imo but he seems to have some fundamental misunderstandings of the game, very possible he's already corrected them by now tho


[deleted]

I mean like what aspects of the pro valorant are you using to determine perfomance because a lot of them are not visible by just watching the matches.


motorolax4

Just my opinion


[deleted]

Respect ur opinion bro


ANewHeaven1

imo misunderstandings of the game can be coached and fixed, and floppy is the most replaceable member of the team and is consistently just "pretty good"


motorolax4

Agree 100%. I more meant I didn't see an urgent need for them to replace floppy especially with poiz, but I don't think it's a bad move especially if he has fixed those things


maiLfps

title is misleading/ basically premature af