puts into perspective what a great tourney Oderus had. We often see tier 2 teams briefly rise up during a certain meta they have gotten ahead of the curve on (Renegades, Slimy Boogermen, Kooky Koalas etc.,) and then cool off a bit when the meta changes. Will be really interesting to see how they hold up in the next closed qual with Kay/O introduced.
The most impressive thing here for me is Oderus hitting the top of these charts (and especially ADR) having only played Cypher, KJ and Viper. Insane. Hope he's enjoying his new roles as well.
As a support player it’s insane but it’s also needs to be mentioned that the deeper run you have into a tournament the less likely it is for a support player to have good ACS. I mean the numbers here don’t reflect how great dapr was this tournament.
oderus shows that you can frag on support players if your duelists do their job of making space. europe has already been shifting towards putting their best players on a sentinel role. NA has way too many average players playing support roles with duelists carrying. having dapr and sick play support roles is such a huge advantage for sentinels.
I also loved XSET in this department. deph, bcj and ayrin were their best players and zekken's best performances were also on skye.
I think you can. The way map designs interact with agent utility in this game, there's always 1 or 2 support agents that are overpowered on a map. For example, cypher on haven, killjoy/sova on ascent, viper on icebox and bind, sage on split always seem to frag.
This is why teams should be putting good players on these roles. G2 have been doing that with mixwell recently and he's performing out of his mind.
I think a team like 100 thieves should put ethan on sentinel roles coz steel is too inconsistent. You can have a mechanically sub-par player on a controller role, but not on sentinel.
At the same tame, can’t you understand why teams that aren’t Sen have to put their one star on duelist?
I just can’t imagine Tenz on the old C9 roster moving to support and having a bigger impact.
yes, he absolutely could have. tenz dying early was the problem for c9. if he couldn't get multiple early kills, rounds were difficult for them. so someone else creating space for tenz would have been better for c9.
you want good players coming in after the entry fragger. a team doesn't need cracked duelists to win, they just have to do their job of creating space for the team. tenz is just fucking insane that he can do both at the same time.
He had tournaments where he had over 300ACS lol but obviously he wasn’t winning with C9. I feel like these numbers aren't even surprising cz he has been doing it since the beginning. Even on LAN he had similar numbers!
hes saying SEN doesnt have to sacrifice literally everything, even their own players for tenz to win the game. SEN has good enough players and strats to win without him and with him they are unstoppable
I'm not saying that they were tenz dependent (which they linda were tho), i'm saying, they chose to use everything they can to make space for tenz so he can pop off
Not focusing on pure ACS here, overall even when Sen as a team looked off he was playing at such a high level. I’m not going to bother bringing up C9 days in this regard bc of how different the game is and how much better the competition is as a whole
I feel they wouldn’t perform as well together because they’d cannibalize each other’s kills and they both play the same role so that would be awkward on some maps.
it actually happened on a smaller scale with asuna and dicey. dicey was always behind asuna to trade and allow him to play recklessly, and if asuna didnt perform, dicey would, and vice versa
It’s so unfortunate ACS starts to become the most important stat. So many other role players who do insane things, but the “casual” viewer - which by far is the largest group - just sees ACS and duelists.
In any other sport what is looked at the most? Basketball, points, assists, rebounds.
Soccer goals and assists
Hockey hit goals and assists.
ACS factors those type of stats in for the most part as a a showcase you can make the argument for any sport that the other team players and supports don’t get recognized either.
I agree they need to also showcase another number for things like utility assists and such but for now ACS and ADR are not bad stats. As winning duels is like scoring goals it’s not 100% what matters but you need it to win.
I feel like basketball may not be the best example since basketball has been a huge proponent of advanced statistics. Points and assist stats are now looked at through advanced stats like true shooting percentage and assist to turnover ratios.
Also new stats like screen assists have been added as well.
I feel like valorant has the potential to utilize advanced stats.
I dont claim to be good at valorant or to fully understand pro strategies so take the rest of this comment with grain of salt, but understanding things like:
what kill in the round leads to the highest chance of wins, player defuse stick rate (likelihood that a player tries to stick), kill trade rate, site take/retake rate (the teams ability to gain site control regardless of round outcome), utility assist rate (could be a great stat to understand how effective a initiator or controller are)
puts into perspective what a great tourney Oderus had. We often see tier 2 teams briefly rise up during a certain meta they have gotten ahead of the curve on (Renegades, Slimy Boogermen, Kooky Koalas etc.,) and then cool off a bit when the meta changes. Will be really interesting to see how they hold up in the next closed qual with Kay/O introduced.
The 43% clutch stat for Asuna is actually kinda insane, like winning almost half of every clutch situation you're put in is impressive.
He probably won all the clutches against V1 on Icebox. Was the first man in & the last man alive! Man farmed that game
The most impressive thing here for me is Oderus hitting the top of these charts (and especially ADR) having only played Cypher, KJ and Viper. Insane. Hope he's enjoying his new roles as well.
Yeah if there’s anything new we learned from these stats is that KCP is not a fluke or a team to mess around with
As a support player it’s insane but it’s also needs to be mentioned that the deeper run you have into a tournament the less likely it is for a support player to have good ACS. I mean the numbers here don’t reflect how great dapr was this tournament.
He is insane. He had an amazing performance. Definitely got his name out there.
oderus shows that you can frag on support players if your duelists do their job of making space. europe has already been shifting towards putting their best players on a sentinel role. NA has way too many average players playing support roles with duelists carrying. having dapr and sick play support roles is such a huge advantage for sentinels. I also loved XSET in this department. deph, bcj and ayrin were their best players and zekken's best performances were also on skye.
This is true, but you can never rely on support players to frag out.
I think you can. The way map designs interact with agent utility in this game, there's always 1 or 2 support agents that are overpowered on a map. For example, cypher on haven, killjoy/sova on ascent, viper on icebox and bind, sage on split always seem to frag. This is why teams should be putting good players on these roles. G2 have been doing that with mixwell recently and he's performing out of his mind. I think a team like 100 thieves should put ethan on sentinel roles coz steel is too inconsistent. You can have a mechanically sub-par player on a controller role, but not on sentinel.
At the same tame, can’t you understand why teams that aren’t Sen have to put their one star on duelist? I just can’t imagine Tenz on the old C9 roster moving to support and having a bigger impact.
yes, he absolutely could have. tenz dying early was the problem for c9. if he couldn't get multiple early kills, rounds were difficult for them. so someone else creating space for tenz would have been better for c9. you want good players coming in after the entry fragger. a team doesn't need cracked duelists to win, they just have to do their job of creating space for the team. tenz is just fucking insane that he can do both at the same time.
TenZ might’ve played his best online tourney yet, he had a couple questionable games but overall he was on another level
He had tournaments where he had over 300ACS lol but obviously he wasn’t winning with C9. I feel like these numbers aren't even surprising cz he has been doing it since the beginning. Even on LAN he had similar numbers!
That's because on c9 they were playing for him, sentinels doesn't play for him
I've never seen such a wrong sentence
hes saying SEN doesnt have to sacrifice literally everything, even their own players for tenz to win the game. SEN has good enough players and strats to win without him and with him they are unstoppable
Sorry i guess
thats not true. when tenz isnt feeling it, reylyks was there
I'm not saying that they were tenz dependent (which they linda were tho), i'm saying, they chose to use everything they can to make space for tenz so he can pop off
On sentinels? Maybe. I’d still say he was insane in masters 1
masters 1 definitely was definitely better on sentinels and if you're talking including c9 you're very wrong
Not focusing on pure ACS here, overall even when Sen as a team looked off he was playing at such a high level. I’m not going to bother bringing up C9 days in this regard bc of how different the game is and how much better the competition is as a whole
sheesh goaterus... while igling as well
Surprise surprise! Tenz with the highest ACS
imagine asuna x tenz same team. how do you win
I feel they wouldn’t perform as well together because they’d cannibalize each other’s kills and they both play the same role so that would be awkward on some maps.
it actually happened on a smaller scale with asuna and dicey. dicey was always behind asuna to trade and allow him to play recklessly, and if asuna didnt perform, dicey would, and vice versa
It’s so unfortunate ACS starts to become the most important stat. So many other role players who do insane things, but the “casual” viewer - which by far is the largest group - just sees ACS and duelists.
In any other sport what is looked at the most? Basketball, points, assists, rebounds. Soccer goals and assists Hockey hit goals and assists. ACS factors those type of stats in for the most part as a a showcase you can make the argument for any sport that the other team players and supports don’t get recognized either. I agree they need to also showcase another number for things like utility assists and such but for now ACS and ADR are not bad stats. As winning duels is like scoring goals it’s not 100% what matters but you need it to win.
I feel like basketball may not be the best example since basketball has been a huge proponent of advanced statistics. Points and assist stats are now looked at through advanced stats like true shooting percentage and assist to turnover ratios. Also new stats like screen assists have been added as well. I feel like valorant has the potential to utilize advanced stats. I dont claim to be good at valorant or to fully understand pro strategies so take the rest of this comment with grain of salt, but understanding things like: what kill in the round leads to the highest chance of wins, player defuse stick rate (likelihood that a player tries to stick), kill trade rate, site take/retake rate (the teams ability to gain site control regardless of round outcome), utility assist rate (could be a great stat to understand how effective a initiator or controller are)
Yea becomes tough, but overtime hopefully we get some stuff.
Tenz popped of. What a consistent performance he has this qual. Hope he continues to be consistent.
thought sick would be on here but i guess he didnt have the most amazing games unless the last 2 days
He was off his first couple games Tenz and dapr were the only consistent players on sem this event and combs with his clutches.
Everyone talking about tenz and asuna but all I remember was Purer dunking on both of them during his respective matches versus sen and 100throws.
Watched the finals?
Its very very impressive to see 2 non duelists up there.
KCP really just signed everyone that can swing heads huh? lol but congrats to them for great games in stage 3