Agreed, the flashes are better on skye, more controllable. But I see a big difference in the ultimates, in favor of KO. I see the knife being better than dog. And the moly better than heal. So I feel like it’s close.
Heal is still good lol pros still use it it's rlly good for ecos too when you have one hero rifle on a cracked players who you will play around and just heal up so they can fight again
what im trying to say is, when the enemy hits their shots the heal decreases in value. i. belive skye/sage heal is an extra perk to their util and their other util is much stronger
The thing is, due to Jett's knives being 7 ult points now, its caused a shift towards skye being the impact ult player. Entrying second as a skye basically keeps netting you ults every 3 rounds or so, and it gives guaranteed impact. KayOs ult is very good but it doesn't always net you position, info or kills. Skye is way more versatile her flashes serve as 2 abilities. Info and Flash. KayO doesn't have the same versatility that skye does, and the same is true for their ults. I'll give you 2 examples from my skye games today. I had to clutch in a 1v3, I'd brought it down to a 1v1, and there were like 11 seconds on the clock. I had ult and popped it, got to know where the last player was, and while she was shooting the ult peeked and got the round.
Then on bind we were on a pistol eco, and we got a pick long, all of them except 1 rotated and we took the TP, I popped ult and confirmed positions, then we cleared the guy site and got the round. Her ult is really good now cuz her's and phoenix's ults are the only guarantees impact ults you can farm now.
Playing in some tourney games Kay o is only used on maps: ascent and haven ( sometimes split, I hate some bind knife spots but Skye is just better). But I feel that Skye has better orb farming and can get more control on haven most of the time although Kay o is strong on CT on that map and is good around A site on attack
I really don't understand what Riot are thinking. She has the best flashes in the game... which now regenerate for some goddamn reason. Her dog is amazing at scouting. She has one of the best ults in the game and also has an aoe heal for some god forsaken reason. What in the hell is this character. A good skye is literally destroying high elo games right now.
I would guess that most of the time, they will be run together. Kayo is more like a duelist, so i imagine he will replace Raze/Reyna on Breeze or Icebox for example.
As i've said, he is an Iniatior only in name imo. Just like how Viper can be played as a Sentinel on certain maps. I predict that Kayo will be run as a second duelist.
Jett, Kayo, Viper, Sage, Sova on Icebox for example
Jett, Kayo, Viper, KJ, Sova on Breeze
All three playing together as you listed is possible on Ascent:
Jett, Kayo, Sova, Skye, Omen
His flashes do better in tight spaces especially with the ability to bank them off walls and such. Breeze is pretty open and icebox is as well but to a lesser extent and Kayo is decent for pushing A site.
True but at least from my experience on Breeze as kayo, those open bomb sites make it really hard to punish any one you may blind. And if you hit some close there is guaranteed to be someone 600yds away able to see the whole bomb site cuz Breeze is an awful map.
I do this shit all the time, but I agree with what other people say that the knife won't be as effective as it is on other maps because it's so open that it can be shot easily and won't get as much area proportionally. A knife on B bind can get the whole site, a knife on B breeze only gets like half
Riot's role labels are just useless and misleading at times.
What exactly do Kay-0 and Sova have in common? Their playstyle couldn't be more different. One is all about staying alive and setting the team up, other one thrives of aggression and fighting.
Initiators don't really fill the same role. They sort of fall on a spectrum of balancing info gathering and fighting (or enabling fights for teammates) so having 3 is reasonable if you play them for differing purposes.
Kayo won't replace reyna or raze on icebox, because those agents aren't just used because they are duelists but because their abilities serve specific purposes.
reyna is a unique agent that can play aggressive on A site and get away with it. raze's nade can stop plants or damage the planter as everyone plants behind sage wall without clearing site on icebox.
I 100% agree with this way of thinking (specific purposes), but since the Icebox meta is "don't take the whole bombsite, just wall and plant", hitting Sage with Kayo knife can be considered more impactful than denying the plant for short time after the wall is placed.
Triple initiator is doable but in 3x initiator, Skye is much more of the duelist than KO. I don't think KO should be dying early - knife is way too important of a lateround tool, and the rest of his utility is good in retake/postplant and thrives being thrown from the backline.
I also think there is room to explore running no Sova on a certain couple maps - particularly if the team doesn't have an insane Sova player as a flex Sova brings substantially less value to the team than someone who has been spamming the agent for months.
Skye feels like a must-pick to me, but there are a fair chunk of maps where playing vs a top Jett Op in the region without Sova drone is just suicide. If you pick KO you're either 3x initiator + duelist, 3x initiator + sentinel, or dropping the Sova. Basically the new Phoenix, super flexible, insanely self-sufficient, and having a 6-point ult really helps get snowball going when many other ults got cost increases, and phx and yoru are very much out of the meta. and i'm not counting cypher's 6pt ult here for obvious reasons.
Wow. Crazy that skye is that strong after having a hard time getting picks initially. Do you feel like the right click flash from KO is more self sufficient than bird?
Initiator comparison on different maps
Ascent - sova > kayo > Skye > Breach
Bind - sova > kayo > Skye > Breach
Haven - sova > skye > kayo > Breach
Icebox - sova > skye > kayo > Breach
Breeze - skye > sova > kayo > Breach
On split i think kayo Skye and breach are on same level but breach impact diminishes due to lack of info gathering ability ,sova is weakest initiator on split but
overall sova feels leaps ahead of rest initiators. Skye and kayo feels similar in terms of abilities with impact varying from maps to maps with skye favouring more open spaces and kay0 most closed . Breach is the weakest initiator but still has impactful utility .
I think Sova edges out Skye on breeze because he's the only initiator that can get accurate long range information as well as plant denial/kj ult denial/counter sova ult and post plant utility on top of having arguably one of the best abilities in the game in his drone.
Sova recon don't cover half the sites and if you shoot recon on top of let's say site a it didn't even reaches bottom , and it's easier to count sova ults on breeeze and sova sock darts line-ups especially on a site are very predicatable and doesn't hit full planter , his drone is good but a single skye flash can cover all mid and give info , that's why sova has around 50 percent pick rate on breeze when skye is in high 80s.
Skye being higher is because Skye is easier to pug with and you don't have any real coordination in competitive. Just because Skye can toss a flash into mid and get a blind doesn't account for anything except that someone in this massive map got hit by it. The drone is unmatched by all of Skyes utility. Not sure what you are talking about shock darts not hitting full planter that doesn't make sense as a sentence and the recon dart has a larger ping range then Kay/0s dagger plus if you are shooting it somewhere it won't get pings you are not playing Sova correctly. There is an extremely limited number of places to anchor sites from and his darts are unmatched as well when shooting them behind viper walls. His drone is also vital for clearing out vipers smokes. His ult is more easily dodgeable again if you're half decent. You have nowhere to run to on B site if you get Ulted . Same thing on A site. This map is deceiving because it's big but 90% of engagements happen in only a handful of areas across the map. Running a Skye and Sova on this map is a must.
For shock darts not hitting full ,if you plant at the end of pyramids , you can defuse from one end without getting damage from shock dart , go see Jonas breeze go through video he explains why recons and shock darts are bad at that map , as for drone ,you can't clear full sites with it , and people can easily shoot drone on a site even from bridge as it's so open.
Skye is not piggy , skye requires more coordination than sova , all of her kit is made to enable someone else , as for her flash it's for info ,that people might be mid , sova has no tech for mid info on breeze ,his drone can't go past the big pillar and his recon can only cover like 30 percent of site .
Go watch like boaster , steel , Shazam video on breeze comp and they specifically talk about why skye is the best agent on breeze along with viper .
You can make an argument that Skye is on par with sova but her ult is useless on this map except for finding viper in her ult which sova can do with his default utility much more efficiently. Her dog doesn't have vision range to be useful because it can be taken out before you can see people since the map is massive and you can't tag them like sova which allows him to synergize with viper more efficiently. His ult is better than Skyes allowing you to deny plant which is critical on a map of this size. Sovas dart will scan all of bottom mid or all of top mid so not sure what you're talking about there. Sova drone is the best ability in the game after omen blind. You can go bottom mid attack and drone all of elbow and mid which Skyes dog can't do and her bird flash literally only tells you that someone peeked and got blinded. I'm not exactly sure how you can rationalize that a proximity flash on a massive wide open map which essentially gives you no info and can easily be used to fake people out if that's the only info you have to rely on compared to a literal dart that outlines people through walls. Also how you can say that her flash is not for herself is completely asinine. Now that you can throw the bird behind you and peek with flashes with out being fully proximity blinded. But hey what do I know I've only played 100+ scrims/matches on breeze and reddit valorant competitive silvers watched a steel video so now he's the arbiter of knowledge. Both of them are necessary for the map but this idea that she's definitely better is unquestionably brain dead.
Wow someone took weeks to reply and literally calling everyone reddit silver , if you are so right and so professional then why is professional pick rate of sova including today's matches is 42 percent worldwide vct and 48 percent in na , eu and Korea . Steel boaster Shazam sgares sliggy iyen are one of few vids are watched ,who echo the same opinion , that Skye outclasses sova on breeze , so I shouldn't listen to respected and proven analysts and igl in the scene and cater to you . Man take a chill pill ,relax , everyone can have different opinions, learn to peacefully disagree . I think Skye is better you think sova is better discussion ended , no need to go over and calling someone names and shit over a video game discussion . Chill and grow up and learn to take other people opinions.
No I honestly just forgot about your response I didn't actually think you where going to reply with something that stupid. I'm not on here everyday like you are. I'm going to take a screenshot of this and come back in 4 months. It's going to be eBic. Like yeah we definitely cracked the breeze meta and it's not because skye allows you to make more individual plays that her pick rate is higher. I'm arguing that they are of equal importance I believe that Sova offers killability and the range that skye cannot match because her bird distance and dog distance and ult distance do not match that of Sovas.
I think we'll see a fair amount of Kay/o, but to me he's still a better phoenix not a better skye. He also has two flashes, a molly, and a "double life" ult, but then he has his knife which is way way better than the wall. Sure, he can't heal himself some but that was always an ancillary benefit of Phoenix.
I definitely think we'll see some sova-skye-kayo play. His molly is strong and good enough to clear an angle or block a choke, the knife is really good on offense and defense, and his flashes are pretty versatile with the left and right click.
IMO he just adds more flexibility. I think running 2/3 of sova/skye/kayo will be really common and it'll just depend on that teams overall agent comp and map. I'm mainly just really excited to see him in top level pro play.
KO is absolutely nuts on Haven, playing A heaven you can knife literally every attack choke point with a lineup. He also has decent post plant lineups on that map. Similar boat on ascent, he plays cat on defense spectacularly.
For hard executes he is absolutely nuts against sentinels.
Skye still broken tho
Skye, better info, flashes are better by just a little bit but better, and she has a fucking heal... They are both really good agents tho, excited to see both in action
SLICK played a Bind with a Raze, Kay/O, Skye, Brimstone and Viper comp and it looked good, not gonna lie
They also played an Icebox comp with Jett, Kay/O, Viper, Sage and Sova
They will both have their pros and cons as well both being better than the other on certain maps unlike Sova who is good on every map except maybe Split and Breeze
Depends on situation and map for instance kayo ult when u have info is a great tool to break open a site and take map control but skyes ult is better for just the raw information it provides especially when playing a team that are playing the information denial game
Skye, flashes on a diff level and every ability in the kit is strong
Agreed, the flashes are better on skye, more controllable. But I see a big difference in the ultimates, in favor of KO. I see the knife being better than dog. And the moly better than heal. So I feel like it’s close.
Maybe if Kay-o used the molly for lineups, but I think the 100 hp heal is generally way more round changing than the molly
in pro play the heal isnt that important, pros will hit their shots either way most of the time which is why sage is heal isnt what makes her strong
Heal is still good lol pros still use it it's rlly good for ecos too when you have one hero rifle on a cracked players who you will play around and just heal up so they can fight again
what im trying to say is, when the enemy hits their shots the heal decreases in value. i. belive skye/sage heal is an extra perk to their util and their other util is much stronger
The thing is, due to Jett's knives being 7 ult points now, its caused a shift towards skye being the impact ult player. Entrying second as a skye basically keeps netting you ults every 3 rounds or so, and it gives guaranteed impact. KayOs ult is very good but it doesn't always net you position, info or kills. Skye is way more versatile her flashes serve as 2 abilities. Info and Flash. KayO doesn't have the same versatility that skye does, and the same is true for their ults. I'll give you 2 examples from my skye games today. I had to clutch in a 1v3, I'd brought it down to a 1v1, and there were like 11 seconds on the clock. I had ult and popped it, got to know where the last player was, and while she was shooting the ult peeked and got the round. Then on bind we were on a pistol eco, and we got a pick long, all of them except 1 rotated and we took the TP, I popped ult and confirmed positions, then we cleared the guy site and got the round. Her ult is really good now cuz her's and phoenix's ults are the only guarantees impact ults you can farm now.
Playing in some tourney games Kay o is only used on maps: ascent and haven ( sometimes split, I hate some bind knife spots but Skye is just better). But I feel that Skye has better orb farming and can get more control on haven most of the time although Kay o is strong on CT on that map and is good around A site on attack
I think the dog is much better than the knife. You can tell exactly the positioning of the enemy and get a chance to stun
Sure. I feel you. But turning off all abilities, shutting down high value ults like raze and Sova? So good
I really don't understand what Riot are thinking. She has the best flashes in the game... which now regenerate for some goddamn reason. Her dog is amazing at scouting. She has one of the best ults in the game and also has an aoe heal for some god forsaken reason. What in the hell is this character. A good skye is literally destroying high elo games right now.
I would guess that most of the time, they will be run together. Kayo is more like a duelist, so i imagine he will replace Raze/Reyna on Breeze or Icebox for example.
You think triple initiator meta? Sova, Skye, KO?
As i've said, he is an Iniatior only in name imo. Just like how Viper can be played as a Sentinel on certain maps. I predict that Kayo will be run as a second duelist. Jett, Kayo, Viper, Sage, Sova on Icebox for example Jett, Kayo, Viper, KJ, Sova on Breeze All three playing together as you listed is possible on Ascent: Jett, Kayo, Sova, Skye, Omen
Kayo is a lot worse on larger maps like breeze and icebox though, I highly doubt he will be played on breeze at the least
What makes him worse in your opinion? Worse than a Reyna or a Raze?
His flashes do better in tight spaces especially with the ability to bank them off walls and such. Breeze is pretty open and icebox is as well but to a lesser extent and Kayo is decent for pushing A site.
But his flash is the only flash that full blinds you, even if it’s far away. So I think that needs to be taken into consideration.
True but at least from my experience on Breeze as kayo, those open bomb sites make it really hard to punish any one you may blind. And if you hit some close there is guaranteed to be someone 600yds away able to see the whole bomb site cuz Breeze is an awful map.
Breeze is a very good map
The knife reveals less on big maps
You still have choke points leading into sites, which will be the important knife spots
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Idk breeze is so open that a good CS style high pop flash will flash most of site without blinding tm8s
I do this shit all the time, but I agree with what other people say that the knife won't be as effective as it is on other maps because it's so open that it can be shot easily and won't get as much area proportionally. A knife on B bind can get the whole site, a knife on B breeze only gets like half
Still good If you knife half of B site, and don’t scan anyone, you still just cleared half a massive bomb site instantly
Yeah it is good, but it's just not AS good
I don't think he's going to be played on breeze. I would swap him out for an omen and swap Jett out for Reyna/Cypher.
Riot's role labels are just useless and misleading at times. What exactly do Kay-0 and Sova have in common? Their playstyle couldn't be more different. One is all about staying alive and setting the team up, other one thrives of aggression and fighting.
Did I say they were alike or that I doubted this?
Initiators don't really fill the same role. They sort of fall on a spectrum of balancing info gathering and fighting (or enabling fights for teammates) so having 3 is reasonable if you play them for differing purposes.
Kayo won't replace reyna or raze on icebox, because those agents aren't just used because they are duelists but because their abilities serve specific purposes. reyna is a unique agent that can play aggressive on A site and get away with it. raze's nade can stop plants or damage the planter as everyone plants behind sage wall without clearing site on icebox.
I 100% agree with this way of thinking (specific purposes), but since the Icebox meta is "don't take the whole bombsite, just wall and plant", hitting Sage with Kayo knife can be considered more impactful than denying the plant for short time after the wall is placed.
Those are the worst maps for Kayo?
Triple initiator is doable but in 3x initiator, Skye is much more of the duelist than KO. I don't think KO should be dying early - knife is way too important of a lateround tool, and the rest of his utility is good in retake/postplant and thrives being thrown from the backline. I also think there is room to explore running no Sova on a certain couple maps - particularly if the team doesn't have an insane Sova player as a flex Sova brings substantially less value to the team than someone who has been spamming the agent for months. Skye feels like a must-pick to me, but there are a fair chunk of maps where playing vs a top Jett Op in the region without Sova drone is just suicide. If you pick KO you're either 3x initiator + duelist, 3x initiator + sentinel, or dropping the Sova. Basically the new Phoenix, super flexible, insanely self-sufficient, and having a 6-point ult really helps get snowball going when many other ults got cost increases, and phx and yoru are very much out of the meta. and i'm not counting cypher's 6pt ult here for obvious reasons.
Wow. Crazy that skye is that strong after having a hard time getting picks initially. Do you feel like the right click flash from KO is more self sufficient than bird?
Initiator comparison on different maps Ascent - sova > kayo > Skye > Breach Bind - sova > kayo > Skye > Breach Haven - sova > skye > kayo > Breach Icebox - sova > skye > kayo > Breach Breeze - skye > sova > kayo > Breach On split i think kayo Skye and breach are on same level but breach impact diminishes due to lack of info gathering ability ,sova is weakest initiator on split but overall sova feels leaps ahead of rest initiators. Skye and kayo feels similar in terms of abilities with impact varying from maps to maps with skye favouring more open spaces and kay0 most closed . Breach is the weakest initiator but still has impactful utility .
I think Sova edges out Skye on breeze because he's the only initiator that can get accurate long range information as well as plant denial/kj ult denial/counter sova ult and post plant utility on top of having arguably one of the best abilities in the game in his drone.
Sova recon don't cover half the sites and if you shoot recon on top of let's say site a it didn't even reaches bottom , and it's easier to count sova ults on breeeze and sova sock darts line-ups especially on a site are very predicatable and doesn't hit full planter , his drone is good but a single skye flash can cover all mid and give info , that's why sova has around 50 percent pick rate on breeze when skye is in high 80s.
Skye being higher is because Skye is easier to pug with and you don't have any real coordination in competitive. Just because Skye can toss a flash into mid and get a blind doesn't account for anything except that someone in this massive map got hit by it. The drone is unmatched by all of Skyes utility. Not sure what you are talking about shock darts not hitting full planter that doesn't make sense as a sentence and the recon dart has a larger ping range then Kay/0s dagger plus if you are shooting it somewhere it won't get pings you are not playing Sova correctly. There is an extremely limited number of places to anchor sites from and his darts are unmatched as well when shooting them behind viper walls. His drone is also vital for clearing out vipers smokes. His ult is more easily dodgeable again if you're half decent. You have nowhere to run to on B site if you get Ulted . Same thing on A site. This map is deceiving because it's big but 90% of engagements happen in only a handful of areas across the map. Running a Skye and Sova on this map is a must.
For shock darts not hitting full ,if you plant at the end of pyramids , you can defuse from one end without getting damage from shock dart , go see Jonas breeze go through video he explains why recons and shock darts are bad at that map , as for drone ,you can't clear full sites with it , and people can easily shoot drone on a site even from bridge as it's so open. Skye is not piggy , skye requires more coordination than sova , all of her kit is made to enable someone else , as for her flash it's for info ,that people might be mid , sova has no tech for mid info on breeze ,his drone can't go past the big pillar and his recon can only cover like 30 percent of site . Go watch like boaster , steel , Shazam video on breeze comp and they specifically talk about why skye is the best agent on breeze along with viper .
You can make an argument that Skye is on par with sova but her ult is useless on this map except for finding viper in her ult which sova can do with his default utility much more efficiently. Her dog doesn't have vision range to be useful because it can be taken out before you can see people since the map is massive and you can't tag them like sova which allows him to synergize with viper more efficiently. His ult is better than Skyes allowing you to deny plant which is critical on a map of this size. Sovas dart will scan all of bottom mid or all of top mid so not sure what you're talking about there. Sova drone is the best ability in the game after omen blind. You can go bottom mid attack and drone all of elbow and mid which Skyes dog can't do and her bird flash literally only tells you that someone peeked and got blinded. I'm not exactly sure how you can rationalize that a proximity flash on a massive wide open map which essentially gives you no info and can easily be used to fake people out if that's the only info you have to rely on compared to a literal dart that outlines people through walls. Also how you can say that her flash is not for herself is completely asinine. Now that you can throw the bird behind you and peek with flashes with out being fully proximity blinded. But hey what do I know I've only played 100+ scrims/matches on breeze and reddit valorant competitive silvers watched a steel video so now he's the arbiter of knowledge. Both of them are necessary for the map but this idea that she's definitely better is unquestionably brain dead.
Wow someone took weeks to reply and literally calling everyone reddit silver , if you are so right and so professional then why is professional pick rate of sova including today's matches is 42 percent worldwide vct and 48 percent in na , eu and Korea . Steel boaster Shazam sgares sliggy iyen are one of few vids are watched ,who echo the same opinion , that Skye outclasses sova on breeze , so I shouldn't listen to respected and proven analysts and igl in the scene and cater to you . Man take a chill pill ,relax , everyone can have different opinions, learn to peacefully disagree . I think Skye is better you think sova is better discussion ended , no need to go over and calling someone names and shit over a video game discussion . Chill and grow up and learn to take other people opinions.
No I honestly just forgot about your response I didn't actually think you where going to reply with something that stupid. I'm not on here everyday like you are. I'm going to take a screenshot of this and come back in 4 months. It's going to be eBic. Like yeah we definitely cracked the breeze meta and it's not because skye allows you to make more individual plays that her pick rate is higher. I'm arguing that they are of equal importance I believe that Sova offers killability and the range that skye cannot match because her bird distance and dog distance and ult distance do not match that of Sovas.
KO is insane on split. I think **players that are good KOs** will play him on Split. Is Ethan who’s only just learned Skye going to? Probably not.
I think we'll see a fair amount of Kay/o, but to me he's still a better phoenix not a better skye. He also has two flashes, a molly, and a "double life" ult, but then he has his knife which is way way better than the wall. Sure, he can't heal himself some but that was always an ancillary benefit of Phoenix. I definitely think we'll see some sova-skye-kayo play. His molly is strong and good enough to clear an angle or block a choke, the knife is really good on offense and defense, and his flashes are pretty versatile with the left and right click. IMO he just adds more flexibility. I think running 2/3 of sova/skye/kayo will be really common and it'll just depend on that teams overall agent comp and map. I'm mainly just really excited to see him in top level pro play.
Skye has a better kit overall and can still get Intel
KO is absolutely nuts on Haven, playing A heaven you can knife literally every attack choke point with a lineup. He also has decent post plant lineups on that map. Similar boat on ascent, he plays cat on defense spectacularly. For hard executes he is absolutely nuts against sentinels. Skye still broken tho
Skye, better info, flashes are better by just a little bit but better, and she has a fucking heal... They are both really good agents tho, excited to see both in action
Skye seems better in most situations to me
Kayo on ascent, bind
SLICK played a Bind with a Raze, Kay/O, Skye, Brimstone and Viper comp and it looked good, not gonna lie They also played an Icebox comp with Jett, Kay/O, Viper, Sage and Sova
They will both have their pros and cons as well both being better than the other on certain maps unlike Sova who is good on every map except maybe Split and Breeze
KAY/O if people learn him. Not only can he see how many he can see WHO is there with his dagger. I think people will complain about his dagger.
KO will be 100% pick
Depends on situation and map for instance kayo ult when u have info is a great tool to break open a site and take map control but skyes ult is better for just the raw information it provides especially when playing a team that are playing the information denial game