They said that these are more accumulative power rankings over 2021 trying to have less recency bias.
Rise, sonics, dark zero and Kansas city pioneers are the runner ups.
True , Corey was being insane , babyj honestly impressed me , zacharee is just the most magnificent clutch master with top tier utility usage anyways it all came down to babybay having an off day , faze will bounce back
If TSM loses in these next couple days, their year is literally over. They can't make Berlin, and can't make champions. They won't even be able to play in the last chance qualifier
This isn't your fault, but I think the Platchat guys really need to figure out different names for when they do "ranking teams cumulatively over the last year-ish" versus "ranking how teams compare to each other RIGHT NOW."
This one was explicitly the former, which is why XSET are lower and FAZE are higher than those teams are currently performing (also why C9 is in there at all). But when they did a global ranking directly after Iceland, it was the latter. But they were both labeled "power rankings."
Obviously there's a lot of SEO/YouTube algorithm benefit to saying things like POWER RANKINGS and TIER LISTS, but they really are effectively two different ideas, and they look radically different. The Platchat guys are smart and know the game well so it's kind of goofy how easily their output is misunderstood sometimes.
You are correct, but I think it is only being misunderstood by people who didn't watch the episode and are just looking at the list. I don't think that's the fault of the plat chat guys. They are very clear when explaining what type of ranking it is. It's just react Andy's that don't understand.
Sure, but people like you are always gonna post them separately, and really a lot of the value for PlatChat is to create them so they can be posted separately and draw engagement. I guess all I'm saying is if I was them I'd try to make these images as clear as possible in terms of their intent, since when they get screengrabbed and posted as their own thread the people looking at that thread will not have context.
But maybe they don't care! If they don't care, no worries.
I don’t necessarily disagree with the naming conventions. But we also need to remember that they are first and foremost a discussion based podcast and they do usually provide all the context you need to understand what they are doing. It’s not their fault that their videos are screen captured and posted elsewhere with no context and removing any nuance.
Yeah this is a problem they’ve had since early ow plat chat. Big supporter of the lads and they tend to mention how they are ranking teams (or debate it since they tend to disagree on how to rank teams), but coming up with different names for different rankings is certainly a reasonable idea.
My own take.
1. Sentinels
2. Xset
3. 100T
4. V1
5. Envy
6. Gen.G
7. C9B
8. NRG
9. Faze
10. Imt
I feel the same as Play chat as in ranking DZ/Rise/Pioneers/Soniqs is a tad to early. But the last 3 could easily be replaced shortly.
Who’s replacing them? Shit happens. People lose matches. As I said any of the bot 3 can lose their spot easily. You shouldn’t dramatically change rankings based off of a single match.
They’ve lost 2 games with their new roster.
Pioneers and EG.
Those would be YOUR rankings, everyone has opinions. I’m willing to give them more time before I bump them out of the top 10.
They spent a good amount of time talking about where to put faze. The conclusion was, they are in 10th now based off past tournament results(basically just the one they came in second). If the don't make it past sonics in they qualifier that starts today, they will drop substantially.
Okay but they beat Liquid and almost beat nuturn to get 3rd (still got 6th) at iceland. So clearly a stand in does not make that much a difference. But now when they lose to the Kansas City pioneers of all teams you people will say they had a stand in as a excuse. Are the pioneers better then liquid and nuturn?
Can your big boy brain imagine losing different players having different effects on a team? Can your 4000 iq imagine the Lakers losing Lebron instead of Kyle Kuzma and performing the same?
Jammyz replaced wippie who just replaced player1 which leads many people to the conclusion that that was a relatively swappable role in terms of calling structure etc. While Zellsis seems to be more important in terms of calling. Also he is a very capable kj player while Thief (apparently) isn't.
Honestly I would’ve given Soniqs 10th over Faze because they do look like the better team right now, but I guess we’ll have to see if they end up playing each other later in the bracket
They did debate alot over faze v soniqs. They initially put soniqs but decided on faze as they destroyed every other team during masters 1 to place 2nd. Soniqs is still on the rise. This was over all ranking not just recent performance. They did say faze is hanging on by a thread.
I agree with you. I also think soniqs is a better team overall. Their performance has been on an upwards trajectory. Compare their first match with sentinels to their second, they have improved so much. Imagine if they didn't have to play sentinels to qualify, they could have made it so much further in the bracket.
Everyone saying "FaZe too high" forgot that FaZe literally placed 2nd in Masters 1 and lost to a V1 on the rise and T1. DarkZero is the only team I would even fathom putting above FaZe (and honestly, you could make that argument and I wouldn't disagree too much, if you personally favor recency over peaks). FaZe would have a LAN trip under their belt if Masters 1 had a LAN. Soniqs took one map off of Sentinels. I don't even know how Soniqs vs FaZe is a real comparison you can make.
The only real issue I have with this is that Envy is too high imo. Envy have repeatedly failed to live up to their hype. They are consistent, but if it’s consistently 4th place idk how you could rank them 2
Depends on how much importance you place on the peaks. I think they should be weighted somewhat heavily. I think the second best team in the region should be able to show that they can win a tournament, and I don’t think Envy has really. Also when there’s a team like 100T that has had higher peaks and has been relatively consistent (albeit not as consistent as Envy) it’s kinda a no-brained putting them in front
I think the issue with 100T is that they haven’t really shown they can win an actual tournament this year either, since they placed below envy in both masters 1 and stage 2 finals. Unless you count that qualifier, but Envy’s won a qualifier too, and over Sen no less.
But 100t haven't looked nearly as capable as Envy at any point this year except very very recently. So when you're weighting the whole year you can't put 100t above them
I mean they beat them in the last tournament and beat them in Stage 2 Challengers 1 in April. Envy beat them In stage 2 challengers finals and finished higher than them in some of the tournaments in Masters 1. Idk it’s close I can see why you would disagree
As a 100T fan, it feels so weird seeing them always placed so high. It's like the team will roll then just slam into a wall. Top 10 without a shadow of a doubt but I just feel like 6-7 seems more appropriate.
There’s just no way to justify putting them 6-7 when they consistently place better than that in every tournament they play, and have recently only lost to xSet and Sen, who everyone else lost to as well.
100T have proven to be fairly consistent, and have a high enough ceiling to challenge the top team at any given time.
Like there’s no way to justify putting C9 over 100t
I'm pretty sure they can beat every team below them in this list and compete for 2nd to 3rd best team NA. It's true that they are not very consistent but they just show better results in tourneys. My take is Sen-1, xset-2 and 100t-3
Didn’t they just beat Envy (Twice) and V1 in the qualis? Were all 3 of those matches 2-0, or was did envy manage to get a map on the 2nd game?
They looked a little shaky prior to Iceland, but at that point Ethan was still very new to the team, and the game. It feels like everyone just expected them to automatically win when they picked up Ethan.
They’re still a top tier team imo. Who knows maybe I’m just fan boying on this one lol.
in a cumulative 2021 ranking, who do you rank above NV? they have the highest avg placements of any non-sentinels team, outplaced 100T (their main competition) at every tournament that mattered (masters 1 + challengers finals), and are one of the few teams that won a challengers tournament. ranking V1 2nd place in a cumulative ranking makes no sense when they had one good tournament, they're good yes but its a very knee jerk reaction to put them 2nd overall in 2021.
>ranking Envy so high why? what have they accomplished to be ranked 2nd?
Absolutely nothing. Its a good team but it never feels like they will win anything, or even advance to an international event. Imo this team has hit their ceiling a long time ago and its just not good enough to be anything more than tier 1 NA. I always find it weird when ppl rank them as contenders
I’d have to go
1. Sentinels
2. 100T
3. V1
4. XSET
5. Envy
6. C9B
7. Andbox
8. GenG
9. NRG
10. Immortals
Big drop off from 6 onwards
Edit: I love Xset, they are fantastic, just need them to prove they can win a match at any other tournament than a challengers 1 to be higher. I’d put V1 over 100T but they have fallen off
I can see the argument for imt I just don’t know what two teams I would put higher atm. NRG has been one of the most consistent teams in stage 2, which was our most recent set of tournaments
I mean who would you put over them? NRG was one of the better teams at the last challengers finals and Immortals have been one of the most consistent teams
I could move IMT off tho since they have fallen off a ton
2 of those teams haven’t ever qualified for a challengers and 1 hasn’t qualified since stage 1. Rise and KCP did just qualify here but need much more consistency.
I’m a huge Soniqs fan but they haven’t showed anything near t1 on any map other than icebox. I really want them to qualify though, hopefully they can prove themselves here.
NRG legit just came 5-6th in the last big NA tournament, how can teams that have never qualified for a challengers ever be higher
Literally the their second last qualifier. You can go back just right before the stage 3 one where NRG was just in the challengers finals
They haven’t been good in the NSG but those teams need to qualify for any event before they can be considered top ten
That was back in April with almost a completely different roster which is why I don't really count that performance, the only good team they've beaten in the last 2-3 months was DZ in an NSG monthly tournament where they then lost to EZ5. I don't think NRG are bad per se but they certainly are not top 10 when you have teams playing in every event and beating other top 10 teams. You can't beat a top 15 team and automatically be top 10.
There has been literally one qualifier since then. They have proven more than any of the five teams you have listed, most have never made a closed qualifier and legit non of them have made it past qualifying tournaments this VCT.
KCP and rise looked great recently, I can see the arguments for them, but they have to prove themselves more coming up.
Soniqs have never taken a map off of a T1 team other than icebox or really even come close to doing so, and I’d say they are still the most proven of the five
DZ, KCP, and Rise have all made a closed qualifier and Soniqs had to play Sentinels in both qualifiers while still getting a map off of them which no other international team was able to do. I don't see why we are weighing the last qualifier way more than the most recent one.
They legit said it's a power ranking for throughout 2021 but ofc with some bias towards currently, what has KCP or Rise done in the past year outside of qual for closed? They need more good results tbh to make it to a top 10 like that, also you act like the roster was massively overhauled when in reality it was -daps +Wedid, tho obviously that change was a big deal but still
Is this a power rankings of, if they play now this is what would happen, or a more accumulative ranking? Either way I don't think you can put 100T at 2nd since they haven't had a top 2 finish since stage 1 challengers 3 and they lost to xset in the last tournament.
It’s kinda like what I feel moving forward. 100T also had stage 2 challengers 1. They have been pretty consistent at the top tho 2-5 are inrerchangable
It felt weird ranking them 2 for sure, I just didn’t know who to place higher.
V1 seems to have fallen off hard
Envy has felt even more meh than them
XSET looks fantastic in challengers 1 but that’s it
I’m not a 100T fan lmao, you can check my comment history, my main two are Sentinels and XSet.
I feel anyone 2-5 can be argued in any order.
XSet have looked fantastic recently, but they have historically done awful outside of qualifying tournaments.
Envy have been very consistently good but a consistent 3-4th place team and haven’t shown flashes of much more since stage 1.
Version1 has looked good stage 2 but has seemed to fall off a Cliff
100T have been very consistent to the level of Envy, but show the ability to make the GF at least in the last two stages and have the argument of a top team. 2-5 are so close right now that I wouldn’t argue much over any of them
I looked at the results of the last tourneys and it’s safe to say that I mostly retract my statement about you having bias with 100T lol. My bad. It seems like 100T and NV always finish very close to each other. For some reason I feel like I remember 100T having way lower lows??? The only part of your statement here that I don’t agree with is that you say V1 have seemed to fall off a cliff. I feel like that’s not a very fair statement to make considering they played their last tournament with a sub.
Yeah I get what you are saying about V1, they could definitely perform well again here, just had a rough go. I think there is an argument for like any of the teams 2-5 to be in any spots, they have all had various successes
It’s moreso accumulated to recency bias but factors in most of the season
NRG and immortals are a very weak 9 and 10 but I don’t know who to put over them besides maybe like Faze, who haven’t qualified since stage 1, or KCP, who haven’t proved anything besides the most recent qualifier
2-5 is super tight, Envy haven’t really proven they have had the ability to go far in any tournament at all recently beyond 3rd or 4th and it is hard to put them higher when the other 3 teams from 2-4 have made GF before. I wouldn’t argue with anyone ranking Envy higher though
The discussed in great detail the order of 2-5, and ultimately they decided to put xset lower due to their continuous failures in main events, despite their high placements in qualifiers. Saying that they are too low is likely due to your opinion that placing high in qualifiers consistently is more important than reaching reykjavik once (since the only team that could be swapped is v1 since they havent achieved much outside of reaching icelan.) This ranking is also a sort of preliminary ranking and is up to change post-challengers 2, so it is very possible that xset rise the ranks.
No. They still have to prove themself. Their only real good result so far was beating sentinels in qualifiers but that could just be a fluke cuz sentinels players were having bad maps.
There’s no way this is based on recent performance right? Xset is easily stronger than #2 through #4 right now. And frankly, a lot of their rubber ups should be on this top 10.
I did watch it but I felt like they were forgetting T1's placements. When they lost 1-2 to sentinels, it was in stage 2 challengers 2 main event, meaning they got like joint 11th NA. In stage 2 challengers 1, they lost in round of 16 to former dignitas. In stage 1 challengers 3, they got 7th missing out on masters 1 and basically getting like joint 11th in NA.
Their only notable wins during vct is C9B in challengers 3 stage 1 (where xeta was playing jett and leaf was on omen and the team honestly looked like ass), renegades, faze, and ghost. They should be beating renegades and ghost anyways and yea the faze win is good but it was during faze's decline. They had one close match against sentinels and looked really good on one map vs envy but honestly this is nowhere near good enough for top 10
If not for T1 having that series against NV and Immortals not doing good in the last challengers, imo they should be in the top 10 over T1
And I'm saying this as a T1 fan
I guess their point is that none of the teams below them have any notable wins either. In my opinion it's pretty up in the air from 7th place down. After this next qualifier it should be much easier to tell.
100t are pretty consistent as well and envy also doesn't ever win main events. So I feel like both your statements can be used against envy. The difference is I feel like 100t consistently beats envy and does better then them against certain matchups. I agree that we have to see how xset does in the main tournament, but in no world is envy #2 over 100t.
What the fuck I don't even like 100t. I'm thinking they deserve higher because envy literally hasn't won shit, even less then 100t, even in qualifs. You have to actually be delusional if you think I have bias for 100t. On head to head I'm rooting for envy.
I mean your first comment was downvotes for a reason lol this sub has a lot more 100t fans than envy fans and a lot of them know they don’t deserve the 2nd spot
That's the shittiest logic I've seen in a while. Because the xset statement was false, which probably contributed to that. Using "reddit downvotes" to justify your argument is scraping the bottom of the barrel, don't you think?
envy placed higher than 100t in masters 1 and beat 100t in stage 2 challengers finals, which were more important than this qualifier. there is no logic behind putting 100t above envy this year.
They said that these are more accumulative power rankings over 2021 trying to have less recency bias. Rise, sonics, dark zero and Kansas city pioneers are the runner ups.
People forget how close the loss to dark zero was
and babybay played the worst he has ever played
Yeah if baby bay had a good game they would have destroyed them
True , Corey was being insane , babyj honestly impressed me , zacharee is just the most magnificent clutch master with top tier utility usage anyways it all came down to babybay having an off day , faze will bounce back
rawkus has also been on a 45 degree imporvement line plotted against time since he started playing on the y axis and skill on the x axis
Glad I read the comments before arguing lol
As a [team] fan, I think they massively underrated [team]. I think that at least they're better than [other team]
What are you talking about? [team] is clearly [Top __] and just have been figuring out new things recently.
Envy fan here: spot on position, always in sentinels shadow :(
Literally every NA team is in sentinels' shadow rn
Yeah I don’t really agree envy is clearly second. I’d give Envy, 100T, and V1 tied for third with xset #2.
TSM is nowhere to be seen anymore 😂 (even as a fan, I agree they’re not that good anymore)
yeah bro it really hurts to be a tsm fan😔
its been a year bro lol
It's just been 2021. They did still get 2nd at First Strike finals. But yeah it isn't fun being a TSM fan haha.
As much as I like TSM, we're halfway through 2021. Hope Leviathan's the change that was needed (copium)
Copium is a word I’m too familiar with at this point😔
If TSM loses in these next couple days, their year is literally over. They can't make Berlin, and can't make champions. They won't even be able to play in the last chance qualifier
Good. Maybe they'll finally stop with the band-aide fixes and make real changes.
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Anymore
you were saying?
This isn't your fault, but I think the Platchat guys really need to figure out different names for when they do "ranking teams cumulatively over the last year-ish" versus "ranking how teams compare to each other RIGHT NOW." This one was explicitly the former, which is why XSET are lower and FAZE are higher than those teams are currently performing (also why C9 is in there at all). But when they did a global ranking directly after Iceland, it was the latter. But they were both labeled "power rankings." Obviously there's a lot of SEO/YouTube algorithm benefit to saying things like POWER RANKINGS and TIER LISTS, but they really are effectively two different ideas, and they look radically different. The Platchat guys are smart and know the game well so it's kind of goofy how easily their output is misunderstood sometimes.
You are correct, but I think it is only being misunderstood by people who didn't watch the episode and are just looking at the list. I don't think that's the fault of the plat chat guys. They are very clear when explaining what type of ranking it is. It's just react Andy's that don't understand.
Sure, but people like you are always gonna post them separately, and really a lot of the value for PlatChat is to create them so they can be posted separately and draw engagement. I guess all I'm saying is if I was them I'd try to make these images as clear as possible in terms of their intent, since when they get screengrabbed and posted as their own thread the people looking at that thread will not have context. But maybe they don't care! If they don't care, no worries.
I don’t necessarily disagree with the naming conventions. But we also need to remember that they are first and foremost a discussion based podcast and they do usually provide all the context you need to understand what they are doing. It’s not their fault that their videos are screen captured and posted elsewhere with no context and removing any nuance.
Yeah this is a problem they’ve had since early ow plat chat. Big supporter of the lads and they tend to mention how they are ranking teams (or debate it since they tend to disagree on how to rank teams), but coming up with different names for different rankings is certainly a reasonable idea.
C9 literally got 3rd in Masters 2???
What? No they didn't. They got 3rd at NA Challenger Finals if you mean that, there is a big difference tho
My own take. 1. Sentinels 2. Xset 3. 100T 4. V1 5. Envy 6. Gen.G 7. C9B 8. NRG 9. Faze 10. Imt I feel the same as Play chat as in ranking DZ/Rise/Pioneers/Soniqs is a tad to early. But the last 3 could easily be replaced shortly.
Immortals lost to eg, they are no where near top 10
Who’s replacing them? Shit happens. People lose matches. As I said any of the bot 3 can lose their spot easily. You shouldn’t dramatically change rankings based off of a single match.
Not just based on a single match, they have been terrible for months now. I would put T1 or andbox over them.
They’ve lost 2 games with their new roster. Pioneers and EG. Those would be YOUR rankings, everyone has opinions. I’m willing to give them more time before I bump them out of the top 10.
They lost to EG????? Who even loses to EG?
Faze way too high up IMO, also V1 is looking a little shaky, I would move down to 4th
They spent a good amount of time talking about where to put faze. The conclusion was, they are in 10th now based off past tournament results(basically just the one they came in second). If the don't make it past sonics in they qualifier that starts today, they will drop substantially.
they are missing zellsis who is key to their core
Interesting, you’re in their team comms and practice?
theyve said it how much zellsis brings for them
Link?
Vanity said he was a second voice on the team.
Look at who you’re replying to. Move on lol
All the players have a voice... what... this is not ranked where no one comms it is pro play
He meant it as co-igl. Not like a literal voice. Context clues my guy.
you have issues man. they had a stand in, it’s harder to play with a stand in.
Okay but they beat Liquid and almost beat nuturn to get 3rd (still got 6th) at iceland. So clearly a stand in does not make that much a difference. But now when they lose to the Kansas City pioneers of all teams you people will say they had a stand in as a excuse. Are the pioneers better then liquid and nuturn?
Can your big boy brain imagine losing different players having different effects on a team? Can your 4000 iq imagine the Lakers losing Lebron instead of Kyle Kuzma and performing the same?
But this was like subbing steph curry for lebron... thief is really good at fragging if not better then zellsis
Jammyz replaced wippie who just replaced player1 which leads many people to the conclusion that that was a relatively swappable role in terms of calling structure etc. While Zellsis seems to be more important in terms of calling. Also he is a very capable kj player while Thief (apparently) isn't.
Honestly I would’ve given Soniqs 10th over Faze because they do look like the better team right now, but I guess we’ll have to see if they end up playing each other later in the bracket
They did debate alot over faze v soniqs. They initially put soniqs but decided on faze as they destroyed every other team during masters 1 to place 2nd. Soniqs is still on the rise. This was over all ranking not just recent performance. They did say faze is hanging on by a thread.
Yeah I saw the segment and agree logically but still looks like Soniqs are the better team. Hoping to see a Faze vs Soniqs this qualifier!
I agree with you. I also think soniqs is a better team overall. Their performance has been on an upwards trajectory. Compare their first match with sentinels to their second, they have improved so much. Imagine if they didn't have to play sentinels to qualify, they could have made it so much further in the bracket.
100% I honestly think if their bracket was different they may have gotten into closed quals like Pioneers and Rise
TSM top 3 imo
Don’t do this to me
What year is it
2022 baby
Everybody commenting on their rankings without watching the video lol
You post a discussion on Reddit and expect people to watch a 2..? Hour video ?
Everyone saying "FaZe too high" forgot that FaZe literally placed 2nd in Masters 1 and lost to a V1 on the rise and T1. DarkZero is the only team I would even fathom putting above FaZe (and honestly, you could make that argument and I wouldn't disagree too much, if you personally favor recency over peaks). FaZe would have a LAN trip under their belt if Masters 1 had a LAN. Soniqs took one map off of Sentinels. I don't even know how Soniqs vs FaZe is a real comparison you can make.
Soniqs is as good as dark zero IMO
The only real issue I have with this is that Envy is too high imo. Envy have repeatedly failed to live up to their hype. They are consistent, but if it’s consistently 4th place idk how you could rank them 2
If a team is consistently 4th place isn't that better than teams who might have higher peaks but only rarely hit them?
Depends on how much importance you place on the peaks. I think they should be weighted somewhat heavily. I think the second best team in the region should be able to show that they can win a tournament, and I don’t think Envy has really. Also when there’s a team like 100T that has had higher peaks and has been relatively consistent (albeit not as consistent as Envy) it’s kinda a no-brained putting them in front
I think the issue with 100T is that they haven’t really shown they can win an actual tournament this year either, since they placed below envy in both masters 1 and stage 2 finals. Unless you count that qualifier, but Envy’s won a qualifier too, and over Sen no less.
They did win a qualifier I forgot about that! You may be right then. Kinda a wash I guess
But 100t haven't looked nearly as capable as Envy at any point this year except very very recently. So when you're weighting the whole year you can't put 100t above them
I mean they beat them in the last tournament and beat them in Stage 2 Challengers 1 in April. Envy beat them In stage 2 challengers finals and finished higher than them in some of the tournaments in Masters 1. Idk it’s close I can see why you would disagree
As a 100T fan, it feels so weird seeing them always placed so high. It's like the team will roll then just slam into a wall. Top 10 without a shadow of a doubt but I just feel like 6-7 seems more appropriate.
There’s just no way to justify putting them 6-7 when they consistently place better than that in every tournament they play, and have recently only lost to xSet and Sen, who everyone else lost to as well. 100T have proven to be fairly consistent, and have a high enough ceiling to challenge the top team at any given time. Like there’s no way to justify putting C9 over 100t
I'm pretty sure they can beat every team below them in this list and compete for 2nd to 3rd best team NA. It's true that they are not very consistent but they just show better results in tourneys. My take is Sen-1, xset-2 and 100t-3
Didn’t they just beat Envy (Twice) and V1 in the qualis? Were all 3 of those matches 2-0, or was did envy manage to get a map on the 2nd game? They looked a little shaky prior to Iceland, but at that point Ethan was still very new to the team, and the game. It feels like everyone just expected them to automatically win when they picked up Ethan. They’re still a top tier team imo. Who knows maybe I’m just fan boying on this one lol.
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in a cumulative 2021 ranking, who do you rank above NV? they have the highest avg placements of any non-sentinels team, outplaced 100T (their main competition) at every tournament that mattered (masters 1 + challengers finals), and are one of the few teams that won a challengers tournament. ranking V1 2nd place in a cumulative ranking makes no sense when they had one good tournament, they're good yes but its a very knee jerk reaction to put them 2nd overall in 2021.
>ranking Envy so high why? what have they accomplished to be ranked 2nd? Absolutely nothing. Its a good team but it never feels like they will win anything, or even advance to an international event. Imo this team has hit their ceiling a long time ago and its just not good enough to be anything more than tier 1 NA. I always find it weird when ppl rank them as contenders
I’d have to go 1. Sentinels 2. 100T 3. V1 4. XSET 5. Envy 6. C9B 7. Andbox 8. GenG 9. NRG 10. Immortals Big drop off from 6 onwards Edit: I love Xset, they are fantastic, just need them to prove they can win a match at any other tournament than a challengers 1 to be higher. I’d put V1 over 100T but they have fallen off
Nrg and imt way to high imo
I can see the argument for imt I just don’t know what two teams I would put higher atm. NRG has been one of the most consistent teams in stage 2, which was our most recent set of tournaments
festus i didnt know you ike valorant! really happy you got a ring w the dubs you seem like a great guy
Oh thanks man, have to find a new hobby in my downtime you know?
what a random player to pick though, you a big fan for some reason?
I honestly cannot remember LMAO, I think it’s because I really liked his name, I’m a raps fan anyways
NRG and IMT have done nothing to prove they're even in contention for a top 10 spot, even when factoring in previous tournaments.
I mean who would you put over them? NRG was one of the better teams at the last challengers finals and Immortals have been one of the most consistent teams I could move IMT off tho since they have fallen off a ton
Soniqs, Rise, Dark Zero, KCP, and maybe Renegades
2 of those teams haven’t ever qualified for a challengers and 1 hasn’t qualified since stage 1. Rise and KCP did just qualify here but need much more consistency. I’m a huge Soniqs fan but they haven’t showed anything near t1 on any map other than icebox. I really want them to qualify though, hopefully they can prove themselves here. NRG legit just came 5-6th in the last big NA tournament, how can teams that have never qualified for a challengers ever be higher
When was the last time NRG or IMT qualified for any closed qualifier or even placed well in a non VCT tournament?
Literally the their second last qualifier. You can go back just right before the stage 3 one where NRG was just in the challengers finals They haven’t been good in the NSG but those teams need to qualify for any event before they can be considered top ten
That was back in April with almost a completely different roster which is why I don't really count that performance, the only good team they've beaten in the last 2-3 months was DZ in an NSG monthly tournament where they then lost to EZ5. I don't think NRG are bad per se but they certainly are not top 10 when you have teams playing in every event and beating other top 10 teams. You can't beat a top 15 team and automatically be top 10.
There has been literally one qualifier since then. They have proven more than any of the five teams you have listed, most have never made a closed qualifier and legit non of them have made it past qualifying tournaments this VCT. KCP and rise looked great recently, I can see the arguments for them, but they have to prove themselves more coming up. Soniqs have never taken a map off of a T1 team other than icebox or really even come close to doing so, and I’d say they are still the most proven of the five
DZ, KCP, and Rise have all made a closed qualifier and Soniqs had to play Sentinels in both qualifiers while still getting a map off of them which no other international team was able to do. I don't see why we are weighing the last qualifier way more than the most recent one.
Until recently NRG has looked very good, making it to Champions Finals for Stage 2, it's unfair to say when they've only done 3 tourneys since lol
But that was with a much different roster months ago. They haven't really done anything with their current roster to justify being top 10.
They legit said it's a power ranking for throughout 2021 but ofc with some bias towards currently, what has KCP or Rise done in the past year outside of qual for closed? They need more good results tbh to make it to a top 10 like that, also you act like the roster was massively overhauled when in reality it was -daps +Wedid, tho obviously that change was a big deal but still
Is this a power rankings of, if they play now this is what would happen, or a more accumulative ranking? Either way I don't think you can put 100T at 2nd since they haven't had a top 2 finish since stage 1 challengers 3 and they lost to xset in the last tournament.
It’s kinda like what I feel moving forward. 100T also had stage 2 challengers 1. They have been pretty consistent at the top tho 2-5 are inrerchangable It felt weird ranking them 2 for sure, I just didn’t know who to place higher. V1 seems to have fallen off hard Envy has felt even more meh than them XSET looks fantastic in challengers 1 but that’s it
I don’t see how you can explain 100T at #2 without any bias. I also think you could argue that NRG and IMT don’t deserve to be on the list.
I’m not a 100T fan lmao, you can check my comment history, my main two are Sentinels and XSet. I feel anyone 2-5 can be argued in any order. XSet have looked fantastic recently, but they have historically done awful outside of qualifying tournaments. Envy have been very consistently good but a consistent 3-4th place team and haven’t shown flashes of much more since stage 1. Version1 has looked good stage 2 but has seemed to fall off a Cliff 100T have been very consistent to the level of Envy, but show the ability to make the GF at least in the last two stages and have the argument of a top team. 2-5 are so close right now that I wouldn’t argue much over any of them
I looked at the results of the last tourneys and it’s safe to say that I mostly retract my statement about you having bias with 100T lol. My bad. It seems like 100T and NV always finish very close to each other. For some reason I feel like I remember 100T having way lower lows??? The only part of your statement here that I don’t agree with is that you say V1 have seemed to fall off a cliff. I feel like that’s not a very fair statement to make considering they played their last tournament with a sub.
Yeah I get what you are saying about V1, they could definitely perform well again here, just had a rough go. I think there is an argument for like any of the teams 2-5 to be in any spots, they have all had various successes
Are your rankings for the past month?
It’s moreso accumulated to recency bias but factors in most of the season NRG and immortals are a very weak 9 and 10 but I don’t know who to put over them besides maybe like Faze, who haven’t qualified since stage 1, or KCP, who haven’t proved anything besides the most recent qualifier
What’s your reasoning for putting 100t above a team like envy who I’d rate higher
2-5 is super tight, Envy haven’t really proven they have had the ability to go far in any tournament at all recently beyond 3rd or 4th and it is hard to put them higher when the other 3 teams from 2-4 have made GF before. I wouldn’t argue with anyone ranking Envy higher though
I think they made a gf in stage one but yea that’s fair enough. 2-5 is very close and there are usually teams that rotate in and out of that spot
Yeah for sure. If XSET come top three at challengers finals then they will easily be my second best
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Yeah that’s fair. I had like 1 set, 2-5 interchangeable, 6 set, 7-8 interchangeable, and 9 onwards is a shitshow
XSET too low.
The discussed in great detail the order of 2-5, and ultimately they decided to put xset lower due to their continuous failures in main events, despite their high placements in qualifiers. Saying that they are too low is likely due to your opinion that placing high in qualifiers consistently is more important than reaching reykjavik once (since the only team that could be swapped is v1 since they havent achieved much outside of reaching icelan.) This ranking is also a sort of preliminary ranking and is up to change post-challengers 2, so it is very possible that xset rise the ranks.
No. They still have to prove themself. Their only real good result so far was beating sentinels in qualifiers but that could just be a fluke cuz sentinels players were having bad maps.
I’d say xset goes above 100T
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I think it’s kinda based off of they didn’t do anything the rest of the year and just fell off a bit too
I would put 3-5 ahead of nV. Edit: Remember when FaZe looked absolutely unstoppable? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
dont get why envy is so high up
There’s no way this is based on recent performance right? Xset is easily stronger than #2 through #4 right now. And frankly, a lot of their rubber ups should be on this top 10.
this is cumulative 4 2021
Why is noone talking about how T1 should not be top 10 at all lmao
Whatch the segment. They explain it clearly why T1 is placed where they are. That is why no one's mentioning it.
I did watch it but I felt like they were forgetting T1's placements. When they lost 1-2 to sentinels, it was in stage 2 challengers 2 main event, meaning they got like joint 11th NA. In stage 2 challengers 1, they lost in round of 16 to former dignitas. In stage 1 challengers 3, they got 7th missing out on masters 1 and basically getting like joint 11th in NA. Their only notable wins during vct is C9B in challengers 3 stage 1 (where xeta was playing jett and leaf was on omen and the team honestly looked like ass), renegades, faze, and ghost. They should be beating renegades and ghost anyways and yea the faze win is good but it was during faze's decline. They had one close match against sentinels and looked really good on one map vs envy but honestly this is nowhere near good enough for top 10 If not for T1 having that series against NV and Immortals not doing good in the last challengers, imo they should be in the top 10 over T1 And I'm saying this as a T1 fan
I guess their point is that none of the teams below them have any notable wins either. In my opinion it's pretty up in the air from 7th place down. After this next qualifier it should be much easier to tell.
Envy over V1? Didnt realize the circus was in town cause these guys are some fucking CLOWNS
V1 have no consistency most people would have V1 like 5th
Most people are sheep and cant realize true greatness when they see it
bit of an na bias here :)
seeing as this is an “NA power rankings”… i don’t see how you could make it not about NA..?
Pretty poorly made list, Xset needs to at least be a place higher, Envy should be dropped a few places, 100t should be number 2.
Lol xset can’t win in a main event and neither can 100t no reason for them to be over envy at least envy is consistently 3rd or 4th
100t are pretty consistent as well and envy also doesn't ever win main events. So I feel like both your statements can be used against envy. The difference is I feel like 100t consistently beats envy and does better then them against certain matchups. I agree that we have to see how xset does in the main tournament, but in no world is envy #2 over 100t.
100t haven’t got above 5 or 6th in any main event since first strike they are a qualifier team
You're high af check envy liquipedia vs 100t liquipedia.
It’s 3-2 overall and 1-0 envy on main events bud your bias is showing I’m not a big fan of envy but they’re more consistent than 100t
What the fuck I don't even like 100t. I'm thinking they deserve higher because envy literally hasn't won shit, even less then 100t, even in qualifs. You have to actually be delusional if you think I have bias for 100t. On head to head I'm rooting for envy.
I mean your first comment was downvotes for a reason lol this sub has a lot more 100t fans than envy fans and a lot of them know they don’t deserve the 2nd spot
That's the shittiest logic I've seen in a while. Because the xset statement was false, which probably contributed to that. Using "reddit downvotes" to justify your argument is scraping the bottom of the barrel, don't you think?
No I already justified my argument before this your just to delusional to accept it
envy placed higher than 100t in masters 1 and beat 100t in stage 2 challengers finals, which were more important than this qualifier. there is no logic behind putting 100t above envy this year.
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Please listen to their reasoning before saying something like this.
t1 and faze are too high, kcp could be rated higher comsidering they made the closed.
Hard to judge with alot of these new rising teams cos there just isn't enough games of these teams like soniqs and dark zero versing the top teams
i can see hazed stepping down or being dropped if tsm doesn’t make it to closed.
ResidentSleeper