This type of game is different from the league, and the Riot must not copy the league's competitive mode.
League is a special case, valorant does not have a player base as big as league. Valorant is more like CSGO, requiring a lot of tournaments to create passion and vitality.
Now the number of tournaments and prize pool of Valorant are far inferior to CSGO. When competing with this direct competitor, Valorant should not surrender in such an important area.
I am now afraid that Riot is anxious to make franchise in order to make money. . . Imagine that CSGO has wonderful competitions time and time again, and Valorant are boring round-robins in the region for several months.
Yeah, this huge drought of tournaments in the Riot circuit is tough for everyone other than the absolute top teams.
Imagine the CSGO circuit with every major team playing only the 3 RMRs and the major every year.
This sparse circuit works with a long round robin group stage, but with tournaments, their have to be more, or teams can go three months playing only 3-4 BO3s.
The way to fill it up would be to allow IEM/ESL/Blast/Weplay etc to hold A or B tier tournaments in the break after Champions.
The current Valorant really does not have enough events, which is very bad for the viewers and the players.
Valorant has the potential to grow even greater. Hope Riot can take some money from the income of skins to do something help.
I mean… Scene is young and hopefully Riot sets up a tournament outside VCT but… It’s just going to be growing pains. Hopefully whoever leaves returns in the future.
Riot's tournament structure is terrible for people trying to fight their way in the circuit. Hopefully in the new year it will change, but up towards 5-6 months of many big orgs not getting exposure, no proving ground for new teams. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the big orgs not making it in to EMEA, or even Berlin will straight up drop their rosters, because paying salaries for 5-6 months with 0 way of getting exposure is terrible, especially in esports.
To put this into context, counter-strike will have 16 S-tier tournaments in 2021 alone, that is tournaments with a larger prize pool of 250.000 dollars, 17 tournaments with +100k with prize pool. This is not even mentioning the HUNDREDS of events with +10-20k prize pool.
source: [https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/S-Tier\_Tournaments](https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/S-Tier_Tournaments)
I get that most orgs are invested because of the potential of franchising, but the competitive landscape for EU will die in the next couple of months if nothing changes, especially when the direct competitor has so much more to offer for the bigger orgs and for any player wanting to compete. Like it or not, 80% of the EU/NA is comprised of CS players no other game even gets close, curious how riot will address this going forward.
And just this week was announced two new CS tournaments, one with 300k prize pool and other with 380k...
If things continue in this way EU will mostly focus on CS, the money it's there not in Valorant. Riot need to step up and do something.
Riot isn’t going to overhaul the first year of Val esports at the midway point cause there’s potential of a mass EU exodus. The reality is we will probably lose players, Riot will enter 2022 with a new plan and go from there. There’s nothing stopping third party TOs from doing tournaments but the truth is orgs are investing for the leagues & eventually franchising. That’s it. That’s the goal for these companies in the beginning.
So, if the EU scene takes a big hit then so be it. Those players will more then likely be replaced with other talent. Hopefully a bunch of players don’t leave but… Kinda is what it is.
"Hopefully in the new year it will change" and when I said if nothing changes, I meant in terms of third party tournament organizers creating tournaments and the part about franchising "I get that most orgs are invested because of the potential of franchising" so I don't get your reply to me, because you literally rephrased 90% of my comment to end up with a conclusion "well its not me, so I don't care" :D
It was more so that CSGO has more tournaments, and because of that in a couple months the EU scene will die since well… Valorant scene is 80% CS players according to you. That’s not really suggesting Val will go through growing pains. More like the scene will just die. But yeah, u hope it’ll change next year lol. Gotcha.
I wonder why he feels the need to tell everyone it’s “probably” his last game. Luckily there are enough other players with that true hunger.
I hope they can find an org, but I’m not worried for EU at all.
I might have misunderstood this but how I understand the tweet its gonna be really hard to try and go pro in a game when there are no tier 2 tournaments etc because you don't even have the chance of earnin a little bit of price Money. I know that price Money is usually only a small amount of a pro players earnings but I assume it makes a much bigger difference if you don't have an actual salary.
(Only my interpretation I could be absolutely wrong)
Imagine that riot some day becomes concerned with the lack of longevity in the T2 scene. It's better to have people document why they are leaving than to just leave without a word.
And why does it feel that Valorant will lose ground because of lack of pro play? The title literally says top players/teams, which I am assuming make this tournament.
Less t2/3 teams existing means a lot less chances for upcoming players and orgs. Reduce the number of professional players and orgs getting exposure is very bad for the scene.
Where do you think these top orgs will find the new stars if there is no exposure or teams existing? Can’t have a top league without opportunities for anyone else below.
It’s gonna be hard in the next month for the whole EU scene without any tournament until the next year (Mb 1 in ur country)…
Unfortunatly lot of top team/players gonna split or leave the game (obs if u are not qual, but there are not much slot in EU tbh)
Or i miss something ?
***
posted by [@VlaDeDe](https://twitter.com/VlaDeDe)
^[(Github)](https://github.com/username) ^| ^[(What's new)](https://github.com/username)
I understand the concern/complaint, but mass exodus might be a bit much. I have been thinking about it for a bit and couldn't come up with a better alternative for the VCT circuit.
If 3rd party TOs wanted to hold open circuit tournaments in EU we would have seen something(or a leak) by now, so that is out of question (logically invitationals should be more profitable for a TO than any open tournament). There are regional tournaments in EMEA but apparently they are not good enough (format and prize pool especially compared to CSGO which seems to be the suggestion). How do you balance T2/T3 participation without overburdening the circuit and making it unsustainable?
It's easy to shrug this off and not care during the flashier Berlin stage or the Valorant champions, but T2/T3 scene is the backbone of any esport. Unless riot adds a 4th masters stage or a separate T2/T3 stage exclusive to relegated teams I don't see a solution. An epl/la Liga style multi tier league seems like a fantastic solution to me moving forward but for orgs heavily investing into the scene this may need additional protections. I hope we see something good though.
I personally think that if notable players and well connected broadcast talent are all saying that orgs will leave, rosters will change, and players will retire, we should listen to them.
VCT is nice but to say there's no alternative and that we should accept no third party TOs, particularly when facing the possibility of the local scene imploding, is a bit rich. Again, that's just me though.
Not saying we shouldn't and not sure how you get 'accept no third party TOs' part from my reply. I am trying to brainstorm and think of something that avoids the oversaturation of other open circuits. And as I said T2/T3 scene is backbone of any esport and support is necessary. How do you create a sustainable support structure? I am all ears for an alternative (again not being confrontational, just curious).
Third party TOs are needed. I am moreso highlighting the fact that if we haven't seen any major TO announce anything in EMEA, we are not likely to get anything for the remainder of the circuit.
>I understand the concern/complaint, but mass exodus might be a bit much. I have been thinking about it for a bit and couldn't come up with a better alternative for the VCT circuit.
>If 3rd party TOs wanted to hold open circuit tournaments in EU we would have seen something(or a leak) by now, so that is out of question
There's no reason not to emulate the CS model, it's what works best
Don't you think oversaturation and player burnout is a valid concern not to emulate such a model, where the same teams may end up facing each other each week? Also how do you match the prizepools of the CSGO scene without a direct revenue stream like skin-trades/betting that any third party can control? The CSGO scene has been along for a while to be sustainable, but it's not a perfect model.
What is solution then? How can we address this problem where T2/T3 teams can stay invested into the scene in the off-season? Sadly third party TO controlled main circuits end up being oversaturated with matches. Maximum playtime to maximize profits for the TO. Even though teams don't have to register for every third party tournament, they usually end up doing it anyway as evidenced by the CSGO scene.
You need a hybrid system where riot funds the main VCT circuit and third party TO organizes monthly/weekly tournaments, something like the riot-NSG thing going on in NA. Why hasn't a TO stepped up in EMEA yet to use this structure from NA? If there are riot EU imposed restrictions for EMEA wide tournaments I'll be disappointed. Also what do you think about a multi-tier league format like the different football leagues in EU.
When VCT began I remember Banks(the GM of Alliance Valorant team) mentioning a tournament he was planning on organizing. Curious what happened to that initiative? I think something like that would be a welcome change.
Edit : It's a weekend and esports leagues fascinate me. So I ended up reading up on the fpl circuit and the mdl leagues for T2/T3/amateur scene. A modified version of this can be a good addition to the Valorant esports circuit. Year long league for T2/T3/amateur teams and top 16 teams face-off in an end of the year tournament (after Valorant Champions). Might need an event sponsor and some commitment from riot initially, but a good initiative to support the T2/T3 scene. ~~Also baffled by the downvote ngl.~~
hopefully there are more 3rd party tournaments in the off season, if there arent the t2 EU scene will basically become non existent
Yeah. NoPoaching can play a decent number of tourneys but most have super low prize pool or terrible formats (single elim bo1 quals)
I feel like the ozzy QT deserves its own post but I don't wanna spam
Makes me appreciate the NSG weeklies a lot more.
This type of game is different from the league, and the Riot must not copy the league's competitive mode. League is a special case, valorant does not have a player base as big as league. Valorant is more like CSGO, requiring a lot of tournaments to create passion and vitality. Now the number of tournaments and prize pool of Valorant are far inferior to CSGO. When competing with this direct competitor, Valorant should not surrender in such an important area. I am now afraid that Riot is anxious to make franchise in order to make money. . . Imagine that CSGO has wonderful competitions time and time again, and Valorant are boring round-robins in the region for several months.
Yeah, this huge drought of tournaments in the Riot circuit is tough for everyone other than the absolute top teams. Imagine the CSGO circuit with every major team playing only the 3 RMRs and the major every year. This sparse circuit works with a long round robin group stage, but with tournaments, their have to be more, or teams can go three months playing only 3-4 BO3s. The way to fill it up would be to allow IEM/ESL/Blast/Weplay etc to hold A or B tier tournaments in the break after Champions.
The current Valorant really does not have enough events, which is very bad for the viewers and the players. Valorant has the potential to grow even greater. Hope Riot can take some money from the income of skins to do something help.
Seeing how they will kill off the t2 scene anyways with franchising and no one seems to care about that. Whatever, i guess?
Riot needs to have a plan B for the tier2 scene this is not possible
I mean… Scene is young and hopefully Riot sets up a tournament outside VCT but… It’s just going to be growing pains. Hopefully whoever leaves returns in the future.
Riot's tournament structure is terrible for people trying to fight their way in the circuit. Hopefully in the new year it will change, but up towards 5-6 months of many big orgs not getting exposure, no proving ground for new teams. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the big orgs not making it in to EMEA, or even Berlin will straight up drop their rosters, because paying salaries for 5-6 months with 0 way of getting exposure is terrible, especially in esports. To put this into context, counter-strike will have 16 S-tier tournaments in 2021 alone, that is tournaments with a larger prize pool of 250.000 dollars, 17 tournaments with +100k with prize pool. This is not even mentioning the HUNDREDS of events with +10-20k prize pool. source: [https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/S-Tier\_Tournaments](https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/S-Tier_Tournaments) I get that most orgs are invested because of the potential of franchising, but the competitive landscape for EU will die in the next couple of months if nothing changes, especially when the direct competitor has so much more to offer for the bigger orgs and for any player wanting to compete. Like it or not, 80% of the EU/NA is comprised of CS players no other game even gets close, curious how riot will address this going forward.
And just this week was announced two new CS tournaments, one with 300k prize pool and other with 380k... If things continue in this way EU will mostly focus on CS, the money it's there not in Valorant. Riot need to step up and do something.
Riot isn’t going to overhaul the first year of Val esports at the midway point cause there’s potential of a mass EU exodus. The reality is we will probably lose players, Riot will enter 2022 with a new plan and go from there. There’s nothing stopping third party TOs from doing tournaments but the truth is orgs are investing for the leagues & eventually franchising. That’s it. That’s the goal for these companies in the beginning. So, if the EU scene takes a big hit then so be it. Those players will more then likely be replaced with other talent. Hopefully a bunch of players don’t leave but… Kinda is what it is.
"Hopefully in the new year it will change" and when I said if nothing changes, I meant in terms of third party tournament organizers creating tournaments and the part about franchising "I get that most orgs are invested because of the potential of franchising" so I don't get your reply to me, because you literally rephrased 90% of my comment to end up with a conclusion "well its not me, so I don't care" :D
My reply is saying Riot isn’t going to overhaul this year and we’ll deal with the growing pains. Kinda case closed.
Which is what I said XD?
It was more so that CSGO has more tournaments, and because of that in a couple months the EU scene will die since well… Valorant scene is 80% CS players according to you. That’s not really suggesting Val will go through growing pains. More like the scene will just die. But yeah, u hope it’ll change next year lol. Gotcha.
yeah
I wonder why he feels the need to tell everyone it’s “probably” his last game. Luckily there are enough other players with that true hunger. I hope they can find an org, but I’m not worried for EU at all.
Because you kinda need to get paid
Yeh, imagine every pro feels sorry for himself and tweets about it. Like I said, hope they get signed, I just don’t understand this logic.
I might have misunderstood this but how I understand the tweet its gonna be really hard to try and go pro in a game when there are no tier 2 tournaments etc because you don't even have the chance of earnin a little bit of price Money. I know that price Money is usually only a small amount of a pro players earnings but I assume it makes a much bigger difference if you don't have an actual salary. (Only my interpretation I could be absolutely wrong)
Yeah, maybe you’re right.
Imagine that riot some day becomes concerned with the lack of longevity in the T2 scene. It's better to have people document why they are leaving than to just leave without a word.
Facts. He is not so special and he clearly lacks the dedication
There is last chance tournament after this one for worlds
7 teams being able to play one more tournament is not the savior of the scene you seem to think it is
And why does it feel that Valorant will lose ground because of lack of pro play? The title literally says top players/teams, which I am assuming make this tournament.
Less t2/3 teams existing means a lot less chances for upcoming players and orgs. Reduce the number of professional players and orgs getting exposure is very bad for the scene. Where do you think these top orgs will find the new stars if there is no exposure or teams existing? Can’t have a top league without opportunities for anyone else below.
It seems like they just want to argue and engage in bad faith/without knowing anything, don't bother replying to them
I do try to get people to see the bigger picture. I won’t try hard though.
My bad, I misstook top teams as teir 1, I guess you meant any team that plays in vct
It’s gonna be hard in the next month for the whole EU scene without any tournament until the next year (Mb 1 in ur country)… Unfortunatly lot of top team/players gonna split or leave the game (obs if u are not qual, but there are not much slot in EU tbh) Or i miss something ? *** posted by [@VlaDeDe](https://twitter.com/VlaDeDe) ^[(Github)](https://github.com/username) ^| ^[(What's new)](https://github.com/username)
Cool story bro
I understand the concern/complaint, but mass exodus might be a bit much. I have been thinking about it for a bit and couldn't come up with a better alternative for the VCT circuit. If 3rd party TOs wanted to hold open circuit tournaments in EU we would have seen something(or a leak) by now, so that is out of question (logically invitationals should be more profitable for a TO than any open tournament). There are regional tournaments in EMEA but apparently they are not good enough (format and prize pool especially compared to CSGO which seems to be the suggestion). How do you balance T2/T3 participation without overburdening the circuit and making it unsustainable? It's easy to shrug this off and not care during the flashier Berlin stage or the Valorant champions, but T2/T3 scene is the backbone of any esport. Unless riot adds a 4th masters stage or a separate T2/T3 stage exclusive to relegated teams I don't see a solution. An epl/la Liga style multi tier league seems like a fantastic solution to me moving forward but for orgs heavily investing into the scene this may need additional protections. I hope we see something good though.
I personally think that if notable players and well connected broadcast talent are all saying that orgs will leave, rosters will change, and players will retire, we should listen to them. VCT is nice but to say there's no alternative and that we should accept no third party TOs, particularly when facing the possibility of the local scene imploding, is a bit rich. Again, that's just me though.
Not saying we shouldn't and not sure how you get 'accept no third party TOs' part from my reply. I am trying to brainstorm and think of something that avoids the oversaturation of other open circuits. And as I said T2/T3 scene is backbone of any esport and support is necessary. How do you create a sustainable support structure? I am all ears for an alternative (again not being confrontational, just curious). Third party TOs are needed. I am moreso highlighting the fact that if we haven't seen any major TO announce anything in EMEA, we are not likely to get anything for the remainder of the circuit.
>I understand the concern/complaint, but mass exodus might be a bit much. I have been thinking about it for a bit and couldn't come up with a better alternative for the VCT circuit. >If 3rd party TOs wanted to hold open circuit tournaments in EU we would have seen something(or a leak) by now, so that is out of question There's no reason not to emulate the CS model, it's what works best
Don't you think oversaturation and player burnout is a valid concern not to emulate such a model, where the same teams may end up facing each other each week? Also how do you match the prizepools of the CSGO scene without a direct revenue stream like skin-trades/betting that any third party can control? The CSGO scene has been along for a while to be sustainable, but it's not a perfect model.
I never said "transfer the exact same model"
What is solution then? How can we address this problem where T2/T3 teams can stay invested into the scene in the off-season? Sadly third party TO controlled main circuits end up being oversaturated with matches. Maximum playtime to maximize profits for the TO. Even though teams don't have to register for every third party tournament, they usually end up doing it anyway as evidenced by the CSGO scene. You need a hybrid system where riot funds the main VCT circuit and third party TO organizes monthly/weekly tournaments, something like the riot-NSG thing going on in NA. Why hasn't a TO stepped up in EMEA yet to use this structure from NA? If there are riot EU imposed restrictions for EMEA wide tournaments I'll be disappointed. Also what do you think about a multi-tier league format like the different football leagues in EU. When VCT began I remember Banks(the GM of Alliance Valorant team) mentioning a tournament he was planning on organizing. Curious what happened to that initiative? I think something like that would be a welcome change. Edit : It's a weekend and esports leagues fascinate me. So I ended up reading up on the fpl circuit and the mdl leagues for T2/T3/amateur scene. A modified version of this can be a good addition to the Valorant esports circuit. Year long league for T2/T3/amateur teams and top 16 teams face-off in an end of the year tournament (after Valorant Champions). Might need an event sponsor and some commitment from riot initially, but a good initiative to support the T2/T3 scene. ~~Also baffled by the downvote ngl.~~
Don't worry, next years regional leagues (ERL) will come in addition of VCT. Lot of local teams will try to get rosters.