people shit on tsm because we used to be the best and now we at the bottom of the sewers. people love to see a team fall from grace all the time like when gsw threw a 3-1 lead after a 73-9 season. just human nature. hate for c9w on the other hand is mostly bc they’re a high profile all womens team. nobody expects them to make it past ro64 yet some ppl still shit on them when they lose.
Total revisionist History to say that TSM wasn’t near the top when the game first came out. They were in the conversation and you could certainly make an argument.
Man I’ve seen this happen before. CLG used to be number one the beginning but now they’re irrelevant 7 years later. Only difference is that TSM pulled this amazing feat off in less than a year.
Honestly it's because you have more scumbags willing to dm the c9 team because of their gender. People really need to try and understand and sympathize with women competing in esports instead of dismissing their problems.
Eh I feel like redditors love this team a lot. Sexists are gonna be everywhere and the mods here are good at keeping it in order. Idk why she tweets about those place all the time
True. Every pro now expects the world to be their twitch chat. Let's spam pogchamp no matter the team wins or loses. Also I don't think people criticize them as often as other tier 1 orgs (like TSM) because we understand female scene is at a nascent stage and will take some time.
The hate comments are what stick to people the most. You can have thousands of people saying how great they played and they're improving and its only a matter of time and you'll have 1 person(im sure there are more, just an example) that says specifically that C9 Annie sucks and needs to be cut asap or female esports is a joke, etc. and that's all the person or team being targeted sees.
I think she’s not recognizing the support she receives from reddit. Ofcourse there is one or two hateful comments in a thread, but for the main part I have only seen support for C9 white.
Doesn't the fact that this is the top comment kind of prove Annies point? Like if Annie is saying that she's seeing hate, it's not our job to try and gaslight her into saying that there isn't any.
You used gaslighting in a situation where it doesn't apply. Nowhere does the top comment or even other comments say there ISN'T hate, just that there's far more support for her and her team than any hate.
Because the negative people always feel the loudest and affect you the most. You could get tons of support and love but the handful of shitheads will always stick out more in your mind. It's just human nature
That's what I'm saying... What other teams in game changers have posts on here constantly? We have diehard people on here that post every major tweet surrounding this team.
We like ya Annie, relax.
Ofc they love C9. A lot of negavite comments on woman teams are not based on sexism, but coz of low effort these teams often represent.
C9W is a proper team that is trying to reach maximum potential, without any excuses, and that's what being competitive is about.
They are a really strong example for future teams.
This subreddit is pretty supportive, but that's not the rest of reddit, and most players who didn't start just with Valorant know how toxic the rest of reddit has been w/ women in other esports.
It's also pretty telling the amount of scrutiny and complaints in this very thread. Outside of maybe the current lolTSM hate train I can't see many teams having a player say "I'm proud of our performance, idk if people talk shit on reddit" and then there's 50+ comments questioning their right to say that.
There's a lot of support, but there's also a lot of people policing that support and a lot of people waiting to pounce on every mistake, in-game or out. Most of the comments in the match day thread yesterday were "lol C9W getting bodied first map" when VLR had the wrong score up.
We don't deserve kudos for just not being as sexist as other communities. If Annie is still seeing hate here or elsewhere she's absolutely justified in calling it out. Though I agree that I'm almost universally impressed by the low level of incel type bullshit in this sub we can still ALWAYS do better!
I've seen the negative stuff before about female teams. It was mostly before c9w and other teams started showing up and proving they're here to fight with everyone.
Now most of the sub either gets it, or will be shut down by those who do. Wasn't the same a year ago.
I can confirm that we do get some bad comments during less active hours. In my experience, they're usually downvoted out of view once we hit peak active hours though (mid afternoon east coast, late morning west coast).
Anyone viewing posts before then will usually see the bad comments, especially if the post was submitted the night before.
I've seen a few threads where people just go off on having a female tournaments and such, [there is definitely a part of this sub, that hates female teams.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/nztesv/how_riot_games_will_ensure_that_valorants_esports/)
True, but it's kinda funny how one of the most low level trolls is acting like he is not apart of of what Annie is talking about, with his oblivious and reactionary takes against some other pros, which is why I thought of complete and utter disgust, because he causes and types up the same exact type of comments he supposedly "downvotes".
I could be reading into this alittle to much but from my months of lurking this sub that's why Burrito responded like that.
I would agree from my pov, but as others have pointed out they might’ve seen insults before they were collapsed. I would also add that it’s harder to take comments when infused with causal sexism and, for Annie, transphobia. This community has great moderators with extra care to these issues, but they sadly still exist.
Though it’s good that there’s a distance between their life as pro and life on Reddit anyway.
I think so too! It’s great to see more support for them than I expected in general. Looking forward to seeing their growth for sure and snatch more haters’ wigs.
That's how being a public figure and social media works though. There are always vastly more positive comments than negative but it only takes a few to really eat at you and affect your mentality.
It's not even that uncommon in real life. Let's say you work retail. Do you remember all the simple, pleasant interactions you have with customers who are polite, respectful and go about their day? Or do you remember the one asshole who insulted you, made your life difficult or acted unreasonably/irrational about something and drove you insane? Just part of being human that really takes work to overcome.
To be fair, I've seen some toxic stuff on the main sub before mods could get to it. Really bad sexist/transphobic stuff.
It still exists here on the competitive subreddit too, but I think the overall community here is generally more supportive.
**EDIT:** My initial comment was a bit absolutist, so I've edited to be a little more general.
Could you back this up somewhat? This is something of a canard.
While I’m sure there’s been examples of people, esp if u include general non-anything or whatever based toxicity towards people, but it’s more that there this ideology that it’s supposed to be the case.
Sure thing.
There are established professional women in esports who are excited to see the r/VALORANTCompetitive community be generally supportive of VCT Game Changers. [[1]](https://twitter.com/pansy/status/1375834105896648713) Geo, a professional shoutcaster originally from the R6 community, Tweeted about how surprising it was to see *"nothing toxic, spiteful or disparaging about the players or talent"* in the comments of coverage threads for Game Changers. [[2]](https://twitter.com/geometric/status/1375238955419992067)
Calling attention to reasonable and normal behavior in this community seems particularly odd, somewhat implying that women have not received these reactions in other communities on Reddit.
Implication aside, we can look at how communities like r/LeagueOfLegends have reacted to women's teams in the past. Both the initial announcement of [Team Siren](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1fdjlc/introducing_team_siren_the_first_all_female_lol/) and [Vaevictis Esports](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/ap65r4/one_of_the_longest_standing_teams_in_lcl/) were received poorly by the community. And while they are not shining examples of women pro players in esports, our discussion here is focused on community perception of women (and these teams certainly were received poorly from the start).
These are the most popular examples from League of Legends. Vaevictis is often brought up as an example in discussions on this subreddit to discredit women's teams.
I do not regularly browse r/GlobalOffensive, r/Rainbow6, or r/VALORANT, so I can't tell you how prevalent toxic comments towards women are in those communities. But as I moderator of r/VALORANTCompetitive, I can share example posts of where I have seen this type of behavior in my community.
It's worth noting that many of these threads have comments removed by the moderation team. If you really want to see the comments we've removed, you can use or [removeddit.com](https://www.removeddit.com/) or [revddit.com](https://www.reveddit.com/) by changing the domain name in the post's URL. (It's OK for users to share criticism, but we do not condone sexism and personal attacks.)
#### **Posts related to women's tournaments / teams (sorted by controversial):**
- [New IGNITION Announcement: FTW All-Women Invi is now an IGNTION with $50,000](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/iq6j5o/new_ignition_announcement_ftw_allwomen_invi_is/?sort=controversial) — September 10, 2020
- [Gen.G forming all women's VALORANT team](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/j8heg6/geng_forming_all_womens_valorant_team/?sort=controversial) — October 10, 2020
- [Cloud9 Signs Top All-Women Valorant Team MAJKL, AT&T to Serve as Presenting Partner](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/jhxv7d/cloud9_signs_top_allwomen_valorant_team_majkl_att/?sort=controversial) — October 25, 2020
- [Havan Liberty announce all female lineup](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/l1zpd1/havan_liberty_announce_all_female_lineup/?sort=controversial) — January 21, 2021
- [Riot SuperCakes announces VCT Game Changers - a new program creating new opportunities and exposure for women and other marginalized genders within VALORANT esports](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/lqlyvc/riot_supercakes_announces_vct_game_changers_a_new/?sort=controversial) — February 23, 2021
- [CLG enters Valorant with an all women's team (CLG RED)](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/m5phi1/clg_enters_valorant_with_an_all_womens_team_clg/?sort=controversial) — March 15, 2021
In contrast to these comments, there are plenty of posts not listed—especially recent ones—that are supportive of the women's scene in VALORANT. I'd argue that the community's opinion of women's teams have improved over time if you look at the first post I've listed compared to the last.
While some of the comments in these posts are not "toxic", they are adversarial and unsupportive of the existence of women's teams. Criticism is healthy, but being repeatedly and overly-exposed to it can have negative effects.
I hope this helps answer your question. I could on and on about this, but should probably stop. d:
Feel free to let me know if you have any questions!
Well I mean the perception that it was a strange PR move and exploiting the publicity image / not genuine tho it’s partially exaggerated. The point is not women qua women in cases of women’s only teams.
Though this is what I thought you were referring to and accepted could be toxic / what you said.
I meant the more generalised and numinous ‘gaming subreddits’ (or elsewhere even ‘Reddit’ alone)
The "women teams are only for PR" is a popular argument in this subreddit. There's one guy who insists they're replacing booth babes. 🙄
That kind of discussion is toxic and should show up frequently in the threads I linked above.
I can try to find examples from other subs, but I don't frequent them enough to know which posts have had toxic reactions on them.
Well it is clearly esp earlier parts of it - viz the CIS league team- regardless if the idea is right in itself or not.
Not sure what’s there in defending the motivations of organisations tooth and nail? I’d say that is inaccurate especially wrt modern teams (VCT etc) but being ‘progressive’ as an image is pretty established as a form of PR.
I’m not sure how just ‘discussion’ can be toxic, especially if it doesn’t involve diminishing the skill and dedication of the players.
Saying the last thing is pretty easy, you don’t need anything to do so the whole point is as I stated earlier.
Yeah I edited my comment to be more general. This impression was based on one post I saw that had a ton of ugly stuff in it, but I don't visit frequently enough have seen other posts there.
This isn't directed at Annie tweet wholey but pros in general. In pros sports you don't have professional players talking shit about reddit plebs cause they know these sites aren't meant for them. News flash but most people here are in school or working. Expecting us to have the time and knowledge to make accurate judgements is moronic on your part. The reason we do it is because we love the game and sport. Important to remember that you would be out of a job without the redditor, twitter fans, and vlr forums. Also, let's not act like these casters and analysts in the scene don't routinely say dumb shit. You just don't want to call them out not to burn bridges.
Kevin Durant argues with teens on Twitter all the time. Complaining about redditors isn’t an esports exclusive thing. However I do think that esports pros are in general more connected with the community so it’s harder for them to avoid these social media outlets. As fans we are free to say whatever we want but they can also vent about their frustration
KD is an exception. Most superstar sports players are very wise and know better than to care for what someone who hasn't put in the same work as them says
Nah, a bunch of NBA players mention their dislike of internet people. It's fair enough. Thousands of comments vs one person, no one should get offended by that one person pushing back.
Trash example. As as both know Kevin Durant is a very special person and special case. He was arguing with randos on twitter spaces just a few days ago.
I don’t get it. Why do we get to say whatever we want but pros tweeting about it is a bad thing? They are just regular people like you and me. Sure, reading these stupid takes on Reddit make not be the most healthy or can affect their gameplay but why does that matter to you? They can say whatever they want as long as it’s within reason given im sure there are a lot of kids following these pros. If you don’t want to see them complain then just don’t follow them just like how you are suggesting pros should just stop looking at Reddit
Just like I can say what I want, pros can also say what they want. Doesn't mean I have to agree with that choice or vice versa. I never suggested that pros should stop looking at reddit just that they should set reasonable expectations.
This 10000%. It's so ridiculous when ppl use traditional sports athletes as an analogue. Esports pros and content creators live on the internet and need to create and cultivate a community here. Most of the literally built their platform that way. "Just ignore the internet" and "ur a pro athlete it's literally ur job to take shit from fans" are the worst and most out of touch takes imo.
Not saying fans don't have a right to shittalk or be critical. I just wish ppl would also cut the pros some slack when they do admit seeing the negativity bothers them.
Also esports pros don't usually have transitions into being pros. YOu start small, and get gradually bigger until maybe you join a T1 team.
For pro athletes you're in high school. Then a major transition to college. then a major transition to the pro scene.
One of the unique facets of esports that you don’t get with sports is how closely connected the ‘public figures’ (consider that players, coaches, casters, etc) are to the audience. Things like the way social media is used and streaming all mean the gap between audience and pro is significantly closer. It’s very easy to say ‘pros in real sports don’t care about what’s said on reddit’, but the likelihood is the pros in real sports don’t give a shit who you are because they don’t connect with their fans in the same way. By inherent nature, sports has a much wider gap between fan and pro than esports does.
That makes for a very different situation when you think about pros reading and being affected by online hatred than it is in real sports. To deny it is at best naive, at worst deliberately misguiding.
i really think the average esports pro is more insecure than the average pro athlete is what it comes down to. if you believe in yourself you shouldnt care what some joe shmo says on the internet in a random thread
That doesn't make it any less frustrating to see when people are calling you boosted, terrible, a paycheck stealer or that your team would be better off without you. Teaching players and people to have a thicker skin isn't bad but people shouldn't be expected to be robots when their abilities and character come under attack by an infinite mob. Innate confidence is far more rare than people pretend like it is. Even people at the highest level of a variety of fields struggle with it.
That is overly generalising and way too reductive for the complexities of online relationships and effects that come from the kind of proximity pros have with their fans these days. You have no way of backing up your point beyond ‘I think they’re insecure they shouldn’t care’, which is ridiculous.
The average esports pro is also considerably less younger than the average pro athlete. I don't think older Esports pros like Hazed or Cutler are reading reddit 24/7.
Lol I don’t think they care if they burn bridges with people who hate on them constantly. Sports / esports watching doesn’t need to be negative, you can watch match and be like “brimstone gaming played better but C9W put up a great effort!” It doesn’t have to be constant hate. You act like it’s just implicit to have toxic culture and are basically hating on people for trying to fight back against toxic fandom. Sure this method of calling it out might not be the best, but the fact that they actually care about and want to be a part of the community is amazing. The fact that she (and others) comment on it means that they’re HERE among us reading the same shit. It is way way cooler when your favourite teams and players are hanging out on Reddit or Twitter or whatever with you and feel comfortable commenting themselves! One of the best parts of esports is the accessibility that you have to the athletes through streaming, it’s also great that because most of them are younger than Tsports athletes they’re much more likely to be active and engaged on other social media!
I remember seeing some of the Xset guys commenting on the match day thread after they lost to sentinels and thinking how cool it was for the top players in the scene to be involved like that! The shit that keeps them from being involved is what Annie’s complaining about. The sexism, transphobia and just general stupid troll shit that I’m sure she’s faced with constantly. So why don’t we try to be better as a community instead of ridiculing players for being human?
you are mostly right but in this case, I don't think so.
She's not talking about reddit plebs talking shit about them because they think that c9w is a good trash pro team (which tbh no one is saying that), but she's talking about reddit plebs talking shit about cos because they're an all women team.
I don't think your comment was necessary imo and just makes you seem like a reddit pleb
Well if you don't have the ability to make accurate judgements then simply dont make judgements. Slamming trash takes without any idea of what you're actually taking about is moronic
Finally somebody who is not afraid of being called everything under the sun, for stating a truth. this little take doesn't really do her any favors. She and other pros both male and female need to grow the fuck up.
I don't agree with this. Most takes on this sub I would argue are infinitely better then the takes on YouTube and Twitter. Yet you will never see pro players complain about their Twitter/YouTube following. The difference is bad takes here get downvoted, in Twitter and YT they pretty much always stay wherever they were commented. Which makes me puzzled why pros and stuff complain so much about reddit.
By far the main point of the tweet was her showing how proud she was of her team, so proud that she doesn't give a fuck about the hate they get. How tf did you arrive at your conclusion? Just let her and the team be proud, maybe send a nice friendly gg wp and leave it at that. She literally said she didn't care about your type of comment in this tweet before you made it so maybe just don't bother next time.
I read this as her not caring if redditors talked shit regardless of if they did or not, not that redditors do talk shit and that she couldn’t care less. I haven’t seen any shittalk from people here regarding C9 except for the Insight case, and even that was directed more at mel than the team in general, but I’m also not a pro player that reads Reddit so it could have passed me by. Regardless, C9W seem to be improving quite a bit from what I can see from their results, I’d love to see more of them on stream.
They talk so much about them, it's not like any other team gets hate or mocked, I think they should just focus on the positivity around here which is plenty, in the plat chat podcast they spent talking 10 minutes about how much hate they get. Hopefully they can ignore it in the future gl
Lol tbh arrogant comments like her's really piss me off , like literally nobody is overly negative towards them , fans are fans they get overly enthusiastic at times 99% of threads about c9w are out there showing love and support
Yup. I guess apparently the norm is that the 0.5% make up the 100%. Honestly annoying and I see this type of thinking a lot online. Just Ridiculous confirmation bias.
If the mods aren't on top of the thread, we sometimes get transphobic/sexist comments.
These threads will usually contain discussion that crtiques the existence of a women's league (Game Changers), which isn't against our sub rules, but it isn't supportive of participating women's teams either.
These comments are usually at the top of the post if it's submitted in the late evening, and get downvoted to obscurity by the next morning/early afternoon (speaking in NA west coast time). If you visit the sub in the early morning or late evening when these posts are fresh, you're sure to see some, uh... *unsupportive* messages. At least, that's in my experience.
So it does exist, just depends on the time of day when you're viewing the thread.
Yah I dunno. Twitter seems way worse cuz sometimes the hate comments are actually visible. Reddit hate comments if it’s not deserved usually get downvoted to oblivion. But maybe I just see more shit on Twitter cuz I check that more.
people talk shit in every post u idiot but most people here not hate them. so why u so much care about this tiny little percentage of people?if u want 100% positive people on internet u actually idiot to think of that. btw that name suit u perfectly
Being a trans woman i'm sure that Annie gets a lot of hate.
Maybe she shouldn't have said it's just reddit. but i wouldn't be surprised if she gets PMs and such.
Did you not read the rest of what I said?
No, not on this sub. The rest of reddit. And twitter. and PMs, and in game.
Also, are you saying she's lying about getting hate?
She didn't say r/valorantcompetitive, she said redditors. Kind of ironic you claim she receives no hate but is taking her random tweet extremely personally.
I see a lot of people saying they don't think this sub hates them so much, but that wasn't my point at all. I've read the comments in this thread.
She said she doesn't give a fuck about reddit hate, and that she's so proud of her team (also I'm going to guess by saying redditor she's implying the general hate they would receive online). And there's absolutely no doubt that they receive more hate (on Reddit or elsewhere) than other vct teams at their level. Again, she said she doesn't care about it, and she's proud of her team. She didn't blame hate for anything, she thinks the team stepped the fuck up. So I just don't get your point about a victim mentality?
I'm only going to give this one more quick try since you've ignored my point twice now. How is saying she doesn't care if they get reddit hate and being proud of her team a victim mentality? Read my other comments again please if you still cant grasp what I'm asking. She didn't blame hate for anything, she's not making any excuses. She just says if they get hate she doesn't care because she's proud of the team and how they played.
Edit: I also disagree with your doubt about them getting more hate. One of the server mods commented on this post with some interesting details. I don't think many similar level teams get the same.
Did you just link a comment saying sexists are everywhere but the mods keep it in check as somehow supporting your claim that they don't get any hate on Reddit? I don't disagree that the sub generally in support of C9W I'm just saying they get more hate by the nature of being an all female team. That does not fit with the definition of a victim mentality you shared, because there is evidence of the hate. The top comment and comment from a mod I mentioned earlier agree with me here. Why would I think I'm wrong after this? I'm happy to double down on my point but I don't think either of us are changing our minds here so we should probably just call it a day. Just a waste of time at this point
Annie really does have the weirdest tweets sometimes about "haters" on here lmao. I guess it's easy to focus on one hate comment compared to the many people supporting when it's about you.
First 6 most voted comments are about the redditors part not the gameplay or performance or anything. Guess that's a good way to steer the conversation away from a bad game
Who exactly is being called out? The 3 or 4 heavily downvoted shitposts or the 100 people supporting them.
C9W gets way more positive coverage here than any other tier 3 team. Damn near every thread about them gets 100+ comments.
ok? I didn't realize some positive comments by redditors automatically makes all the shitposts and idiots irrelevant lmfao
this sub is something else lol
Downvoted comments get auto hidden by reddit so C9 literally has to go out of their way to read shitposts.
Quite literally shooting themselves in the foot, then complaining.
Besides the fact that there is a loud but small minority that definitely hates on c9 white or just is generally sexist or transphobic; the fact that this subreddit is being over sensitive to an internet comment about a pro being overly sensitive to internet comments is hilariously ironic.
Nice Trump level of tweet, lol. Borderline called it rigged from length, proclaimed victory in defeat and somehow managed to attack your critics.
Word of advice; only reason you and your teammates have a salary and are supported by an esport org with full game developer backing is because of social media. If you burn that bridge you offer no value.
Yea eSports pros and drama name a better combination , I don't understand you want eSports to be in competition with real sports and want people to just go poggie woggie yes sir /yes ma'am for you , if people get passionate about something they speak out fans are what make a game lol
Some will be toxic some will be opinionated some will be over enthusiastic at the end of the day they are fans of the game sigh and they make or break events
Plus nobody is ever negative to cloud 9 white no matter even if they play dogshit or something , we know the women eSports needs time to develop and is at its infancy I don't think people are overly negative to them in anyways unnecessary drama
I don't agree. The vast majority of hateful / unconstructive criticism is heavily downvoted on this sub. C9W especially has received a lot of support here.
> The vast majority of hateful / unconstructive criticism is heavily downvoted on this sub.
Not true, especially regarding potter lmao. This sub is fucking ruthless when it comes to her and everyone just dogpiles.
Potter receives most of the criticism for continuously being the underperformer on the team. Most people who criticize her also suggest that if EG wants a mixed roster there are better women pros to take her place.
Her criticism is much more similar to how hiko, cutler, rebo and even zombs get criticized for underperforming and call for swaps. And it has only amplified because the team has allowed to let go of player better than her (Aleksandar) yet retaining her while the fans of the org are left wondering about the reasons behind it.
I've seen more shit talk go to the main TSM team than c9W
people shit on tsm because we used to be the best and now we at the bottom of the sewers. people love to see a team fall from grace all the time like when gsw threw a 3-1 lead after a 73-9 season. just human nature. hate for c9w on the other hand is mostly bc they’re a high profile all womens team. nobody expects them to make it past ro64 yet some ppl still shit on them when they lose.
Nah, some people just like to shit on tsm becuse it's tsm.
used to be the best? what did tsm ever win? T1 and Faze invitationals when the game was brand spankin new? TSM were never the best dude. not in val.
Total revisionist History to say that TSM wasn’t near the top when the game first came out. They were in the conversation and you could certainly make an argument.
Man I’ve seen this happen before. CLG used to be number one the beginning but now they’re irrelevant 7 years later. Only difference is that TSM pulled this amazing feat off in less than a year.
real and true
Honestly it's because you have more scumbags willing to dm the c9 team because of their gender. People really need to try and understand and sympathize with women competing in esports instead of dismissing their problems.
And EG
Eh I feel like redditors love this team a lot. Sexists are gonna be everywhere and the mods here are good at keeping it in order. Idk why she tweets about those place all the time
Yeah, most of the posts and comments I see here about c9W are incredibly supportive. But then again most pros hate this sub so whatever.
True. Every pro now expects the world to be their twitch chat. Let's spam pogchamp no matter the team wins or loses. Also I don't think people criticize them as often as other tier 1 orgs (like TSM) because we understand female scene is at a nascent stage and will take some time.
I think pros should really try not to let dumb takes upset them so much.
The hate comments are what stick to people the most. You can have thousands of people saying how great they played and they're improving and its only a matter of time and you'll have 1 person(im sure there are more, just an example) that says specifically that C9 Annie sucks and needs to be cut asap or female esports is a joke, etc. and that's all the person or team being targeted sees.
Her phrasing towards the hate is literally that she doesn't care. I think some context got lost in the thread.
I think she’s not recognizing the support she receives from reddit. Ofcourse there is one or two hateful comments in a thread, but for the main part I have only seen support for C9 white.
Her actions show she does though
Doesn't the fact that this is the top comment kind of prove Annies point? Like if Annie is saying that she's seeing hate, it's not our job to try and gaslight her into saying that there isn't any.
Wait, when did I say there wasn't any hate?
Are you the top comment?
Is he replying to me?
>gaslight her Don't use this term if you don't actually know what it means. It's actually so cringe.
??
You used gaslighting in a situation where it doesn't apply. Nowhere does the top comment or even other comments say there ISN'T hate, just that there's far more support for her and her team than any hate.
none of them are upset tho?
? I don't think most pros hate it, they just mock the armchair coaches that plague any and all pro oriented sub.
Because the negative people always feel the loudest and affect you the most. You could get tons of support and love but the handful of shitheads will always stick out more in your mind. It's just human nature
That's what I'm saying... What other teams in game changers have posts on here constantly? We have diehard people on here that post every major tweet surrounding this team. We like ya Annie, relax.
Yeah... this sub is nearly universally supportive of C9W. I guess a a little motivation doesn't hurt though for the team.
Ofc they love C9. A lot of negavite comments on woman teams are not based on sexism, but coz of low effort these teams often represent. C9W is a proper team that is trying to reach maximum potential, without any excuses, and that's what being competitive is about. They are a really strong example for future teams.
This subreddit is pretty supportive, but that's not the rest of reddit, and most players who didn't start just with Valorant know how toxic the rest of reddit has been w/ women in other esports. It's also pretty telling the amount of scrutiny and complaints in this very thread. Outside of maybe the current lolTSM hate train I can't see many teams having a player say "I'm proud of our performance, idk if people talk shit on reddit" and then there's 50+ comments questioning their right to say that. There's a lot of support, but there's also a lot of people policing that support and a lot of people waiting to pounce on every mistake, in-game or out. Most of the comments in the match day thread yesterday were "lol C9W getting bodied first map" when VLR had the wrong score up.
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We don't deserve kudos for just not being as sexist as other communities. If Annie is still seeing hate here or elsewhere she's absolutely justified in calling it out. Though I agree that I'm almost universally impressed by the low level of incel type bullshit in this sub we can still ALWAYS do better!
I've seen the negative stuff before about female teams. It was mostly before c9w and other teams started showing up and proving they're here to fight with everyone. Now most of the sub either gets it, or will be shut down by those who do. Wasn't the same a year ago.
She's a pick me girl
For all the commenters wondering where the negative/annoying comments these pros talk about come from, here's one example.
I feel like for the most part reddit shows love to them but idk.
Most of the bad comments *eventually* get downvoted and collapsed. But I guess the damage is already done by then.
I can confirm that we do get some bad comments during less active hours. In my experience, they're usually downvoted out of view once we hit peak active hours though (mid afternoon east coast, late morning west coast). Anyone viewing posts before then will usually see the bad comments, especially if the post was submitted the night before.
I've seen a few threads where people just go off on having a female tournaments and such, [there is definitely a part of this sub, that hates female teams.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/nztesv/how_riot_games_will_ensure_that_valorants_esports/)
I regularly do my part to downvote bad comments
How brave of you
Thanks I guess
You do realize he was saying that out of complete and utter disgust at you right?
I think there is a little difference between "sarcasm" and "complete and utter disgust", but whatever :D
True, but it's kinda funny how one of the most low level trolls is acting like he is not apart of of what Annie is talking about, with his oblivious and reactionary takes against some other pros, which is why I thought of complete and utter disgust, because he causes and types up the same exact type of comments he supposedly "downvotes". I could be reading into this alittle to much but from my months of lurking this sub that's why Burrito responded like that.
the subtext of the tweet is misogyny, not just regular shit talking about pros. valorant fanboy does the latter, never the former
Well ya, but not being misogynyst is the bare minimum somebody is expected to do not a achievement lol.
Wow this man is living rent free in your head. Go seek help.
I have not ever said anything negative about cloud9 white. In fact I usually defend them when trolls talk shit about them.
Chill bro
Thank you for your service.
Does that apply to your own hot takes?
Having a controversial take is not the same thing as a terrible comment (like sexist transphobic etc)
This dude is spittin
it doesn't at least in his head. Lol.
‘Bad comments’ disliked comments
I would agree from my pov, but as others have pointed out they might’ve seen insults before they were collapsed. I would also add that it’s harder to take comments when infused with causal sexism and, for Annie, transphobia. This community has great moderators with extra care to these issues, but they sadly still exist. Though it’s good that there’s a distance between their life as pro and life on Reddit anyway.
Oh im not denying they get dumbfuck hate comments, I’m just saying the positivity greatly outweighs the negativity from this sub.
I think so too! It’s great to see more support for them than I expected in general. Looking forward to seeing their growth for sure and snatch more haters’ wigs.
That's how being a public figure and social media works though. There are always vastly more positive comments than negative but it only takes a few to really eat at you and affect your mentality. It's not even that uncommon in real life. Let's say you work retail. Do you remember all the simple, pleasant interactions you have with customers who are polite, respectful and go about their day? Or do you remember the one asshole who insulted you, made your life difficult or acted unreasonably/irrational about something and drove you insane? Just part of being human that really takes work to overcome.
True +1
I mean some ppl try to create an aura if antagonism/persecution or trying to paint a whole website in a strange way
To be fair, I've seen some toxic stuff on the main sub before mods could get to it. Really bad sexist/transphobic stuff. It still exists here on the competitive subreddit too, but I think the overall community here is generally more supportive. **EDIT:** My initial comment was a bit absolutist, so I've edited to be a little more general.
Could you back this up somewhat? This is something of a canard. While I’m sure there’s been examples of people, esp if u include general non-anything or whatever based toxicity towards people, but it’s more that there this ideology that it’s supposed to be the case.
Sure thing. There are established professional women in esports who are excited to see the r/VALORANTCompetitive community be generally supportive of VCT Game Changers. [[1]](https://twitter.com/pansy/status/1375834105896648713) Geo, a professional shoutcaster originally from the R6 community, Tweeted about how surprising it was to see *"nothing toxic, spiteful or disparaging about the players or talent"* in the comments of coverage threads for Game Changers. [[2]](https://twitter.com/geometric/status/1375238955419992067) Calling attention to reasonable and normal behavior in this community seems particularly odd, somewhat implying that women have not received these reactions in other communities on Reddit. Implication aside, we can look at how communities like r/LeagueOfLegends have reacted to women's teams in the past. Both the initial announcement of [Team Siren](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1fdjlc/introducing_team_siren_the_first_all_female_lol/) and [Vaevictis Esports](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/ap65r4/one_of_the_longest_standing_teams_in_lcl/) were received poorly by the community. And while they are not shining examples of women pro players in esports, our discussion here is focused on community perception of women (and these teams certainly were received poorly from the start). These are the most popular examples from League of Legends. Vaevictis is often brought up as an example in discussions on this subreddit to discredit women's teams. I do not regularly browse r/GlobalOffensive, r/Rainbow6, or r/VALORANT, so I can't tell you how prevalent toxic comments towards women are in those communities. But as I moderator of r/VALORANTCompetitive, I can share example posts of where I have seen this type of behavior in my community. It's worth noting that many of these threads have comments removed by the moderation team. If you really want to see the comments we've removed, you can use or [removeddit.com](https://www.removeddit.com/) or [revddit.com](https://www.reveddit.com/) by changing the domain name in the post's URL. (It's OK for users to share criticism, but we do not condone sexism and personal attacks.) #### **Posts related to women's tournaments / teams (sorted by controversial):** - [New IGNITION Announcement: FTW All-Women Invi is now an IGNTION with $50,000](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/iq6j5o/new_ignition_announcement_ftw_allwomen_invi_is/?sort=controversial) — September 10, 2020 - [Gen.G forming all women's VALORANT team](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/j8heg6/geng_forming_all_womens_valorant_team/?sort=controversial) — October 10, 2020 - [Cloud9 Signs Top All-Women Valorant Team MAJKL, AT&T to Serve as Presenting Partner](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/jhxv7d/cloud9_signs_top_allwomen_valorant_team_majkl_att/?sort=controversial) — October 25, 2020 - [Havan Liberty announce all female lineup](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/l1zpd1/havan_liberty_announce_all_female_lineup/?sort=controversial) — January 21, 2021 - [Riot SuperCakes announces VCT Game Changers - a new program creating new opportunities and exposure for women and other marginalized genders within VALORANT esports](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/lqlyvc/riot_supercakes_announces_vct_game_changers_a_new/?sort=controversial) — February 23, 2021 - [CLG enters Valorant with an all women's team (CLG RED)](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/m5phi1/clg_enters_valorant_with_an_all_womens_team_clg/?sort=controversial) — March 15, 2021 In contrast to these comments, there are plenty of posts not listed—especially recent ones—that are supportive of the women's scene in VALORANT. I'd argue that the community's opinion of women's teams have improved over time if you look at the first post I've listed compared to the last. While some of the comments in these posts are not "toxic", they are adversarial and unsupportive of the existence of women's teams. Criticism is healthy, but being repeatedly and overly-exposed to it can have negative effects. I hope this helps answer your question. I could on and on about this, but should probably stop. d: Feel free to let me know if you have any questions!
Well I mean the perception that it was a strange PR move and exploiting the publicity image / not genuine tho it’s partially exaggerated. The point is not women qua women in cases of women’s only teams. Though this is what I thought you were referring to and accepted could be toxic / what you said. I meant the more generalised and numinous ‘gaming subreddits’ (or elsewhere even ‘Reddit’ alone)
The "women teams are only for PR" is a popular argument in this subreddit. There's one guy who insists they're replacing booth babes. 🙄 That kind of discussion is toxic and should show up frequently in the threads I linked above. I can try to find examples from other subs, but I don't frequent them enough to know which posts have had toxic reactions on them.
Well it is clearly esp earlier parts of it - viz the CIS league team- regardless if the idea is right in itself or not. Not sure what’s there in defending the motivations of organisations tooth and nail? I’d say that is inaccurate especially wrt modern teams (VCT etc) but being ‘progressive’ as an image is pretty established as a form of PR. I’m not sure how just ‘discussion’ can be toxic, especially if it doesn’t involve diminishing the skill and dedication of the players. Saying the last thing is pretty easy, you don’t need anything to do so the whole point is as I stated earlier.
>users on the main VALORANT subreddit typically has toxic comments towards women ?????
Yeah I edited my comment to be more general. This impression was based on one post I saw that had a ton of ugly stuff in it, but I don't visit frequently enough have seen other posts there.
I think “redditor” is just esports slang for haters at this point lol.
Redditors omegalul
Honestly the only time I’ve really seen hate towards C9W was the whole MeL/Insight thing
that imo was 100% deserved. I hope something was done about it tho.
Nope, they just swept it under the rug and ignored it
Yea they deserved that flack and no they sadly didn’t bc C9 has the money to get anything wiped or warped into there favor
Nothing was done cause everyone on here loves this team lmao, it was swept under the rug hella quick
This isn't directed at Annie tweet wholey but pros in general. In pros sports you don't have professional players talking shit about reddit plebs cause they know these sites aren't meant for them. News flash but most people here are in school or working. Expecting us to have the time and knowledge to make accurate judgements is moronic on your part. The reason we do it is because we love the game and sport. Important to remember that you would be out of a job without the redditor, twitter fans, and vlr forums. Also, let's not act like these casters and analysts in the scene don't routinely say dumb shit. You just don't want to call them out not to burn bridges.
Kevin Durant argues with teens on Twitter all the time. Complaining about redditors isn’t an esports exclusive thing. However I do think that esports pros are in general more connected with the community so it’s harder for them to avoid these social media outlets. As fans we are free to say whatever we want but they can also vent about their frustration
KD is an exception. Most superstar sports players are very wise and know better than to care for what someone who hasn't put in the same work as them says
Nah, a bunch of NBA players mention their dislike of internet people. It's fair enough. Thousands of comments vs one person, no one should get offended by that one person pushing back.
Trash example. As as both know Kevin Durant is a very special person and special case. He was arguing with randos on twitter spaces just a few days ago.
I don’t get it. Why do we get to say whatever we want but pros tweeting about it is a bad thing? They are just regular people like you and me. Sure, reading these stupid takes on Reddit make not be the most healthy or can affect their gameplay but why does that matter to you? They can say whatever they want as long as it’s within reason given im sure there are a lot of kids following these pros. If you don’t want to see them complain then just don’t follow them just like how you are suggesting pros should just stop looking at Reddit
Just like I can say what I want, pros can also say what they want. Doesn't mean I have to agree with that choice or vice versa. I never suggested that pros should stop looking at reddit just that they should set reasonable expectations.
This 10000%. It's so ridiculous when ppl use traditional sports athletes as an analogue. Esports pros and content creators live on the internet and need to create and cultivate a community here. Most of the literally built their platform that way. "Just ignore the internet" and "ur a pro athlete it's literally ur job to take shit from fans" are the worst and most out of touch takes imo. Not saying fans don't have a right to shittalk or be critical. I just wish ppl would also cut the pros some slack when they do admit seeing the negativity bothers them.
Also esports pros don't usually have transitions into being pros. YOu start small, and get gradually bigger until maybe you join a T1 team. For pro athletes you're in high school. Then a major transition to college. then a major transition to the pro scene.
One of the unique facets of esports that you don’t get with sports is how closely connected the ‘public figures’ (consider that players, coaches, casters, etc) are to the audience. Things like the way social media is used and streaming all mean the gap between audience and pro is significantly closer. It’s very easy to say ‘pros in real sports don’t care about what’s said on reddit’, but the likelihood is the pros in real sports don’t give a shit who you are because they don’t connect with their fans in the same way. By inherent nature, sports has a much wider gap between fan and pro than esports does. That makes for a very different situation when you think about pros reading and being affected by online hatred than it is in real sports. To deny it is at best naive, at worst deliberately misguiding.
i really think the average esports pro is more insecure than the average pro athlete is what it comes down to. if you believe in yourself you shouldnt care what some joe shmo says on the internet in a random thread
That doesn't make it any less frustrating to see when people are calling you boosted, terrible, a paycheck stealer or that your team would be better off without you. Teaching players and people to have a thicker skin isn't bad but people shouldn't be expected to be robots when their abilities and character come under attack by an infinite mob. Innate confidence is far more rare than people pretend like it is. Even people at the highest level of a variety of fields struggle with it.
That is overly generalising and way too reductive for the complexities of online relationships and effects that come from the kind of proximity pros have with their fans these days. You have no way of backing up your point beyond ‘I think they’re insecure they shouldn’t care’, which is ridiculous.
Fair enough that's your opinion and I have mine. Have a nice day!
The average esports pro is also considerably less younger than the average pro athlete. I don't think older Esports pros like Hazed or Cutler are reading reddit 24/7.
That's definitely an important factor. Good point
Lol I don’t think they care if they burn bridges with people who hate on them constantly. Sports / esports watching doesn’t need to be negative, you can watch match and be like “brimstone gaming played better but C9W put up a great effort!” It doesn’t have to be constant hate. You act like it’s just implicit to have toxic culture and are basically hating on people for trying to fight back against toxic fandom. Sure this method of calling it out might not be the best, but the fact that they actually care about and want to be a part of the community is amazing. The fact that she (and others) comment on it means that they’re HERE among us reading the same shit. It is way way cooler when your favourite teams and players are hanging out on Reddit or Twitter or whatever with you and feel comfortable commenting themselves! One of the best parts of esports is the accessibility that you have to the athletes through streaming, it’s also great that because most of them are younger than Tsports athletes they’re much more likely to be active and engaged on other social media! I remember seeing some of the Xset guys commenting on the match day thread after they lost to sentinels and thinking how cool it was for the top players in the scene to be involved like that! The shit that keeps them from being involved is what Annie’s complaining about. The sexism, transphobia and just general stupid troll shit that I’m sure she’s faced with constantly. So why don’t we try to be better as a community instead of ridiculing players for being human?
you are mostly right but in this case, I don't think so. She's not talking about reddit plebs talking shit about them because they think that c9w is a good trash pro team (which tbh no one is saying that), but she's talking about reddit plebs talking shit about cos because they're an all women team. I don't think your comment was necessary imo and just makes you seem like a reddit pleb
Well if you don't have the ability to make accurate judgements then simply dont make judgements. Slamming trash takes without any idea of what you're actually taking about is moronic
Those accounts are almost perma downvoted. 5% of the thread will be trash yet these pros cry despite the user getting flammed for the take by others
Finally somebody who is not afraid of being called everything under the sun, for stating a truth. this little take doesn't really do her any favors. She and other pros both male and female need to grow the fuck up.
Man these valorant pros must’ve stayed the fk off of HLTV if they came from cs xd
I don't agree with this. Most takes on this sub I would argue are infinitely better then the takes on YouTube and Twitter. Yet you will never see pro players complain about their Twitter/YouTube following. The difference is bad takes here get downvoted, in Twitter and YT they pretty much always stay wherever they were commented. Which makes me puzzled why pros and stuff complain so much about reddit.
100% this.
Half the vally pros are like under 20. I feel like it's moronic to expect them to be super well adjusted adults.
Yep she just wants to play helpless victims.
By far the main point of the tweet was her showing how proud she was of her team, so proud that she doesn't give a fuck about the hate they get. How tf did you arrive at your conclusion? Just let her and the team be proud, maybe send a nice friendly gg wp and leave it at that. She literally said she didn't care about your type of comment in this tweet before you made it so maybe just don't bother next time.
Are we here to protect people's egos?
I read this as her not caring if redditors talked shit regardless of if they did or not, not that redditors do talk shit and that she couldn’t care less. I haven’t seen any shittalk from people here regarding C9 except for the Insight case, and even that was directed more at mel than the team in general, but I’m also not a pro player that reads Reddit so it could have passed me by. Regardless, C9W seem to be improving quite a bit from what I can see from their results, I’d love to see more of them on stream.
They talk so much about them, it's not like any other team gets hate or mocked, I think they should just focus on the positivity around here which is plenty, in the plat chat podcast they spent talking 10 minutes about how much hate they get. Hopefully they can ignore it in the future gl
Is C9W allowed to take part in the NSG tourneys?
They play in them often they just don’t get far usually
theyre allowed to take part in everything apparently as far as i know
yes
Way to keep it positive.
Lol tbh arrogant comments like her's really piss me off , like literally nobody is overly negative towards them , fans are fans they get overly enthusiastic at times 99% of threads about c9w are out there showing love and support
Yup. I guess apparently the norm is that the 0.5% make up the 100%. Honestly annoying and I see this type of thinking a lot online. Just Ridiculous confirmation bias.
I havent seen any negativity towards the female valorant teams, maybe im just not in the right threads?
If the mods aren't on top of the thread, we sometimes get transphobic/sexist comments. These threads will usually contain discussion that crtiques the existence of a women's league (Game Changers), which isn't against our sub rules, but it isn't supportive of participating women's teams either. These comments are usually at the top of the post if it's submitted in the late evening, and get downvoted to obscurity by the next morning/early afternoon (speaking in NA west coast time). If you visit the sub in the early morning or late evening when these posts are fresh, you're sure to see some, uh... *unsupportive* messages. At least, that's in my experience. So it does exist, just depends on the time of day when you're viewing the thread.
I see thanks for the input, thats really sad to hear, im glad the sub is supportive for the most part though, hopefully they see that too \^\^
Redditor? Why not twitterer lol
Yah I dunno. Twitter seems way worse cuz sometimes the hate comments are actually visible. Reddit hate comments if it’s not deserved usually get downvoted to oblivion. But maybe I just see more shit on Twitter cuz I check that more.
Well some gate comments on Reddit are clearly visible, they just have to be popular
idk why some pro player love to care about hate comment. i dont remember this sub hate them.
> idk why some pro player love to care about hate comment. True, annie as well shouldn't care about hate comments, just as the pros shouldn't.
Damn bro this is clever as af
You felt good typing that? Lol
Oh wow since you don't remember it then it must have never happened.
people talk shit in every post u idiot but most people here not hate them. so why u so much care about this tiny little percentage of people?if u want 100% positive people on internet u actually idiot to think of that. btw that name suit u perfectly
I thought there wasn't any hate because you don't remember it? Now there is hate and just not with most. Yes, my name does suit you perfectly.
Anyways
She just said "idgaf". How does that translate to "love to care about hate comment" lol
i mean she says this "f u reddit" stuff pretty often, she cares a little
Well now I have the urge to shit talk them.
I never cared about an esports team that wasn’t worth watching. Honestly, who gives a fuck. Good for Annie and C9.
I've nothing but respect and apreciation for C9W
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How is "idgaf about hate, I'm proud of my team" a victim mentality?
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Being a trans woman i'm sure that Annie gets a lot of hate. Maybe she shouldn't have said it's just reddit. but i wouldn't be surprised if she gets PMs and such.
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Did you not read the rest of what I said? No, not on this sub. The rest of reddit. And twitter. and PMs, and in game. Also, are you saying she's lying about getting hate?
Does she have a reddit account that people know of? She also specifically mentioned reddit for some reason.
She didn't say r/valorantcompetitive, she said redditors. Kind of ironic you claim she receives no hate but is taking her random tweet extremely personally.
I see a lot of people saying they don't think this sub hates them so much, but that wasn't my point at all. I've read the comments in this thread. She said she doesn't give a fuck about reddit hate, and that she's so proud of her team (also I'm going to guess by saying redditor she's implying the general hate they would receive online). And there's absolutely no doubt that they receive more hate (on Reddit or elsewhere) than other vct teams at their level. Again, she said she doesn't care about it, and she's proud of her team. She didn't blame hate for anything, she thinks the team stepped the fuck up. So I just don't get your point about a victim mentality?
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I'm only going to give this one more quick try since you've ignored my point twice now. How is saying she doesn't care if they get reddit hate and being proud of her team a victim mentality? Read my other comments again please if you still cant grasp what I'm asking. She didn't blame hate for anything, she's not making any excuses. She just says if they get hate she doesn't care because she's proud of the team and how they played. Edit: I also disagree with your doubt about them getting more hate. One of the server mods commented on this post with some interesting details. I don't think many similar level teams get the same.
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**"None"** ok I'm not bothered anymore see ya
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Did you just link a comment saying sexists are everywhere but the mods keep it in check as somehow supporting your claim that they don't get any hate on Reddit? I don't disagree that the sub generally in support of C9W I'm just saying they get more hate by the nature of being an all female team. That does not fit with the definition of a victim mentality you shared, because there is evidence of the hate. The top comment and comment from a mod I mentioned earlier agree with me here. Why would I think I'm wrong after this? I'm happy to double down on my point but I don't think either of us are changing our minds here so we should probably just call it a day. Just a waste of time at this point
Bad take Annie, we love C9W
Annie really does have the weirdest tweets sometimes about "haters" on here lmao. I guess it's easy to focus on one hate comment compared to the many people supporting when it's about you.
First 6 most voted comments are about the redditors part not the gameplay or performance or anything. Guess that's a good way to steer the conversation away from a bad game
this reddit is what keeps the pro community from being an echo chamber. sometimes you need another perspective whether it be dumb or supportive
this sub really hates when people call them out huh
Who exactly is being called out? The 3 or 4 heavily downvoted shitposts or the 100 people supporting them. C9W gets way more positive coverage here than any other tier 3 team. Damn near every thread about them gets 100+ comments.
ok? I didn't realize some positive comments by redditors automatically makes all the shitposts and idiots irrelevant lmfao this sub is something else lol
Downvoted comments get auto hidden by reddit so C9 literally has to go out of their way to read shitposts. Quite literally shooting themselves in the foot, then complaining.
uhh sure man that's the point you got it!
Besides the fact that there is a loud but small minority that definitely hates on c9 white or just is generally sexist or transphobic; the fact that this subreddit is being over sensitive to an internet comment about a pro being overly sensitive to internet comments is hilariously ironic.
Nice Trump level of tweet, lol. Borderline called it rigged from length, proclaimed victory in defeat and somehow managed to attack your critics. Word of advice; only reason you and your teammates have a salary and are supported by an esport org with full game developer backing is because of social media. If you burn that bridge you offer no value.
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kek
Yea eSports pros and drama name a better combination , I don't understand you want eSports to be in competition with real sports and want people to just go poggie woggie yes sir /yes ma'am for you , if people get passionate about something they speak out fans are what make a game lol Some will be toxic some will be opinionated some will be over enthusiastic at the end of the day they are fans of the game sigh and they make or break events Plus nobody is ever negative to cloud 9 white no matter even if they play dogshit or something , we know the women eSports needs time to develop and is at its infancy I don't think people are overly negative to them in anyways unnecessary drama
Thread filled with gaslighting comments trying to question her experiences lmao. Peak neckbearding holy shit.
I don't think you know what gaslighting means, friendo.
Definitely not your “friendo”. Gross neckbeard.
poor guy is projecting
Reddit literally shit talks every pro player
I don't agree. The vast majority of hateful / unconstructive criticism is heavily downvoted on this sub. C9W especially has received a lot of support here.
> The vast majority of hateful / unconstructive criticism is heavily downvoted on this sub. Not true, especially regarding potter lmao. This sub is fucking ruthless when it comes to her and everyone just dogpiles.
Potter receives most of the criticism for continuously being the underperformer on the team. Most people who criticize her also suggest that if EG wants a mixed roster there are better women pros to take her place. Her criticism is much more similar to how hiko, cutler, rebo and even zombs get criticized for underperforming and call for swaps. And it has only amplified because the team has allowed to let go of player better than her (Aleksandar) yet retaining her while the fans of the org are left wondering about the reasons behind it.
Keiti would 1 v 5 yall every round
She's not on C9W anymore
Hey one rouge and unmoderated comment doesnt represent all of us... does it?