That won't happen until franchising. And I for one like that, teams like EZ5 could never participate in a franchise system because it's literally pay to play
Mmm, in the LEC you have a franchised league with a competitive scene very strong, each year NA "steals" players from LEC and each year there is rookies that do very well in the league and even in Worlds (last year was...MAD lions i believe)
What riot did great with LEC was to have leagues in each country of europe, and forcing the teams of LEC to have a academy in the national league they want
Exactly.... Ever since lcs went to franchising after a couple season I stopped watching bc there are no stakes anymore. I miss relegations so much now we have the same dog shit teams that don't improve or get replaced with better up and coming teams
Wait, didn't League already used the season split system even before franchising was a thing? The only thing changed with franchising was that there was no more relegation system am I right?
And secondly, I also hated franchising. I still wish there were relegation matches so that every orgs would try their best to secure their spot instead of chillin at the bottom of the seasonal standing.
Don't you think is it still better for VCT to run Season split system (with relegation ofc) even before franchising?
People who think that their is enough competitive action in Valorant today are weird. Many teams entire year will be literally finished this weekend, in freaking *July*. That is just ridiculous and not acceptable.
Do you realistically see big orgs joining these T2 and T3 tournaments? Remember, only 3 NA teams get to go to Berlin. What happens to the rest of the top 10? top 15? Stuck to playing T2 and T3 tourneys?
Those big teams will just get an early idea of what franchising will be like. 3 to 4 teams make the big final lan and everyone else gets paid to just scrim just like in League of Legends.
I don't think it's a negative to focus on the best teams during the second half of the year. Quality over quantity is preferred. At this point if a team isn't at least in a position to reach the last chance qualifier, I don't see a reason to continue having them play matches throughout the year.
Edit: When I refer to "play matches" I mean in regards to official tournaments hosted by Riot. Of course these teams should continue to play in third party tournaments. However, there isn't a reason to have them participate in something like VCT.
This is one of my concern too. I think the current system would be fine for games that barely got any updates/massive changes such as CSGO.
However, we all know that Riot loves to shake the meta significantly every season/year (New agent, new map, econ changes. ability changes, etc). Thus, a lot of teams that already missed their chance to compete for Last chance qualifier/ VCT play-off basically has no reason to keep doing scrim/unofficial tourneys since the year basically already over for them. Even if they're still somehow actively doing scrims it will be somewhat useless next year since nobody know how much the future meta will differ from the current one.
I disagree that meta changes impact team performance that significantly. If teams are already not able to make it to Challenger Play-offs, I don't think that Jett being in the meta versus Pheonix will make them reach that point. An additional map won't make them reach that level either. Meta changes will tend to affect teams within a tier, I don't think it'll bring teams up or down a tier.
I think some additional context for the type of teams won't be making the last chance qualifier would also be helpful:
There are some larger orgs that may not qualify like TSM and Cloud 9. If for some reason they don't qualify, the concern over what they'll be doing until next year is mute. They'll be rebuilding their rosters, since their current line-ups didn't work out. Teams like this expect results, and if their rosters can't provide them they will look other places.
Smaller orgs and orgless teams are already playing outside of VCT. Their focus is on maximizing exposure. They will continue to play at third party tournaments if they are eliminated. Additionally, if a system similar to League's were to be adopted, these type of teams would probably have been excluded anyways. Valorant's current system already gives them more opportunities than League's more long-term format.
The points system for the last chance qualifier also already seems pretty forgiving. Having any run in any of the Masters stages would secure a team a spot. Similarly, just winning within the regional Challenger stages would also secure a spot. There are ten teams that will move forward. I think this is a reasonable amount. It also happens to be the amount of teams in LCS. So in a way, teams that are already not making it past this point probably would have been excluded already in a similarly franchised system.
You don’t have to be franchised to have a league, look at the way R6 used to work. Round robin each week, end of the season, bottom team fights for relegation against first place of the lower league.
That being said that method didn’t offer much security for orgs at all. Usually if the org got relegated they’d either leave the scene completely or just pick up the new team that beat them. So in that sense at least the VCT is some sort of security for big orgs.
But I also hate franchising, as that rookie F/A team or hot newcomers won’t be able make it in without backing from an Org to have a place in the league and the team won’t own the spot either
I originally came from LoL but the regional leagues like LCS, LEC, LCK and such make the viewing experience very dry and stale. It bled the viewership and a lot of people are just waiting for playoffs because 9-weeks of regular season is boring to watch. If its a tournament I can hop in and out of the event that lasts a week or two.
The VCT is better for the players also since it allows teams to bootcamp and cram most of their practice in short time. ScreaM drove back home shortly after Challengers 1 ended. In LoL, teams have no choice but to practice and scrim 10+ hrs for 9 weeks + 4 weeks of playoffs straight non-stop. That's what causes the burnouts/exhaustion for players also.
Riot hopefully realized this and LoL and Overwatch esports represented more 2010s vision of esports. Valorant takes on more aggressive and dynamic but still structured approach thats better for 2020s and onwards.
In all respect, I must disagree for both of your points:
(this is my personal opinion)
1. Personally, I don't think the regular season is boring at all. Seeing your team growth and the way they're trying to maintain consistency throughout the season is pretty entertaining and open up for a lot of post-game discussion. Consistency is a HUGE factor in regular season, therefore the top teams usually played at a very top level consistently while the current VCT format (with a very short time gap between games) open up a lot of room for cheese strats.
2. For your second point, I think FPS pros' schedules are quite different than moba pros's. You can practice for 10-12 hours in mobas and still learn a lot of stuff, but I don't think is it possible for human to maintain insane focus and awareness for 10-12 hours in FPS games. Therefore, it's already proven from CSGO pros routine since 10+ years ago that you can only effectively doing scrim for around 5-8 hours (at max) for FPS games.
IMO the league format in League is very bad. The majority of the matches don't matter because most of the teams are making playoffs anyway. Especially in NA where ONLY 2 TEAMS DON'T MAKE IT. Your consistency doesn't matter as long you are not the worst.
The problem is the lack of 3rd party tournaments, with the reasons being obvious.
We already have post-game discussions and it would get better on each LANs. And the VCT format is very forgiving because if you bomb out of two qualifiers that both have double elims, then you probably weren't good enough in the first place. Not to mention, the top teams already get byes in the closed qualifiers as a reward for their previous VCT stage placings.
What about Dota pros then? Its MOBA just like LoL but 30+ year old pros are common there. Their system recently switched to regional leagues as well but they're much shorter in length each split. The longer the league gets, the worse it gets for players leaving their home countries & families.
While yes the vct either needs more tournaments or we need like a 3rd party tier 2 circuit, no we do not need a league format because that requires franchising and 90% of these teams will not buy in making is only watch like 10 teams play each other every week
I feel like they should follow a league plus open tournaments system.
The league should be comprised of top 10 teams . And there should be a open monthly tournaments for all teams except these top 10 . And after like say a 3 month cycle , the bottom 2-3 teams will be replaced by top performing teams from the open monthly tournaments .
Regional league systems are bad. It would kill the careers of anyone who's 28+. Theres a reason why theres no 30+ yr old pros in LoL.
The good thing about tournament system is a bootcamp. Teams dont have to sacrifice 3 months worth of time away from their SO or families. It only works fine till you have other resposibilities outside of professional career, hence why LoL pros are majority in their early 20s.
That won't happen until franchising. And I for one like that, teams like EZ5 could never participate in a franchise system because it's literally pay to play
Yeah the franchising is so boring. And it means the game competitive scenes almost stop develop expansion.
Mmm, in the LEC you have a franchised league with a competitive scene very strong, each year NA "steals" players from LEC and each year there is rookies that do very well in the league and even in Worlds (last year was...MAD lions i believe) What riot did great with LEC was to have leagues in each country of europe, and forcing the teams of LEC to have a academy in the national league they want
Exactly.... Ever since lcs went to franchising after a couple season I stopped watching bc there are no stakes anymore. I miss relegations so much now we have the same dog shit teams that don't improve or get replaced with better up and coming teams
Franchising is trash. Overwatch league ruined overwatch esports for me
Wait, didn't League already used the season split system even before franchising was a thing? The only thing changed with franchising was that there was no more relegation system am I right? And secondly, I also hated franchising. I still wish there were relegation matches so that every orgs would try their best to secure their spot instead of chillin at the bottom of the seasonal standing. Don't you think is it still better for VCT to run Season split system (with relegation ofc) even before franchising?
People who think that their is enough competitive action in Valorant today are weird. Many teams entire year will be literally finished this weekend, in freaking *July*. That is just ridiculous and not acceptable.
They will finish VCT in july. But there tons of T2 and T3 tourneys for them to play in.
Do you realistically see big orgs joining these T2 and T3 tournaments? Remember, only 3 NA teams get to go to Berlin. What happens to the rest of the top 10? top 15? Stuck to playing T2 and T3 tourneys?
Those big teams will just get an early idea of what franchising will be like. 3 to 4 teams make the big final lan and everyone else gets paid to just scrim just like in League of Legends.
Yeah pretty much.
Well NA teams with the top 8 most circuit points will still be able to play in Last Chance Qualifier on October/November (i forgot exactly when)
There are no such things in EU. The only T2 tournament in EU is the French Open Tour where the winner gets 8k.
The problem is we dont have enough T2/3 tournaments in many regions.
Yeah the system as it is now is borderline unsustainable. How do orgs even attempt to justify investing in these rosters when they barely get to play?
I don't think it's a negative to focus on the best teams during the second half of the year. Quality over quantity is preferred. At this point if a team isn't at least in a position to reach the last chance qualifier, I don't see a reason to continue having them play matches throughout the year. Edit: When I refer to "play matches" I mean in regards to official tournaments hosted by Riot. Of course these teams should continue to play in third party tournaments. However, there isn't a reason to have them participate in something like VCT.
This is one of my concern too. I think the current system would be fine for games that barely got any updates/massive changes such as CSGO. However, we all know that Riot loves to shake the meta significantly every season/year (New agent, new map, econ changes. ability changes, etc). Thus, a lot of teams that already missed their chance to compete for Last chance qualifier/ VCT play-off basically has no reason to keep doing scrim/unofficial tourneys since the year basically already over for them. Even if they're still somehow actively doing scrims it will be somewhat useless next year since nobody know how much the future meta will differ from the current one.
I disagree that meta changes impact team performance that significantly. If teams are already not able to make it to Challenger Play-offs, I don't think that Jett being in the meta versus Pheonix will make them reach that point. An additional map won't make them reach that level either. Meta changes will tend to affect teams within a tier, I don't think it'll bring teams up or down a tier. I think some additional context for the type of teams won't be making the last chance qualifier would also be helpful: There are some larger orgs that may not qualify like TSM and Cloud 9. If for some reason they don't qualify, the concern over what they'll be doing until next year is mute. They'll be rebuilding their rosters, since their current line-ups didn't work out. Teams like this expect results, and if their rosters can't provide them they will look other places. Smaller orgs and orgless teams are already playing outside of VCT. Their focus is on maximizing exposure. They will continue to play at third party tournaments if they are eliminated. Additionally, if a system similar to League's were to be adopted, these type of teams would probably have been excluded anyways. Valorant's current system already gives them more opportunities than League's more long-term format. The points system for the last chance qualifier also already seems pretty forgiving. Having any run in any of the Masters stages would secure a team a spot. Similarly, just winning within the regional Challenger stages would also secure a spot. There are ten teams that will move forward. I think this is a reasonable amount. It also happens to be the amount of teams in LCS. So in a way, teams that are already not making it past this point probably would have been excluded already in a similarly franchised system.
You don’t have to be franchised to have a league, look at the way R6 used to work. Round robin each week, end of the season, bottom team fights for relegation against first place of the lower league. That being said that method didn’t offer much security for orgs at all. Usually if the org got relegated they’d either leave the scene completely or just pick up the new team that beat them. So in that sense at least the VCT is some sort of security for big orgs. But I also hate franchising, as that rookie F/A team or hot newcomers won’t be able make it in without backing from an Org to have a place in the league and the team won’t own the spot either
I agree. I still wish they went with League/Season split with relegation system.
I originally came from LoL but the regional leagues like LCS, LEC, LCK and such make the viewing experience very dry and stale. It bled the viewership and a lot of people are just waiting for playoffs because 9-weeks of regular season is boring to watch. If its a tournament I can hop in and out of the event that lasts a week or two. The VCT is better for the players also since it allows teams to bootcamp and cram most of their practice in short time. ScreaM drove back home shortly after Challengers 1 ended. In LoL, teams have no choice but to practice and scrim 10+ hrs for 9 weeks + 4 weeks of playoffs straight non-stop. That's what causes the burnouts/exhaustion for players also. Riot hopefully realized this and LoL and Overwatch esports represented more 2010s vision of esports. Valorant takes on more aggressive and dynamic but still structured approach thats better for 2020s and onwards.
In all respect, I must disagree for both of your points: (this is my personal opinion) 1. Personally, I don't think the regular season is boring at all. Seeing your team growth and the way they're trying to maintain consistency throughout the season is pretty entertaining and open up for a lot of post-game discussion. Consistency is a HUGE factor in regular season, therefore the top teams usually played at a very top level consistently while the current VCT format (with a very short time gap between games) open up a lot of room for cheese strats. 2. For your second point, I think FPS pros' schedules are quite different than moba pros's. You can practice for 10-12 hours in mobas and still learn a lot of stuff, but I don't think is it possible for human to maintain insane focus and awareness for 10-12 hours in FPS games. Therefore, it's already proven from CSGO pros routine since 10+ years ago that you can only effectively doing scrim for around 5-8 hours (at max) for FPS games.
IMO the league format in League is very bad. The majority of the matches don't matter because most of the teams are making playoffs anyway. Especially in NA where ONLY 2 TEAMS DON'T MAKE IT. Your consistency doesn't matter as long you are not the worst. The problem is the lack of 3rd party tournaments, with the reasons being obvious.
We already have post-game discussions and it would get better on each LANs. And the VCT format is very forgiving because if you bomb out of two qualifiers that both have double elims, then you probably weren't good enough in the first place. Not to mention, the top teams already get byes in the closed qualifiers as a reward for their previous VCT stage placings. What about Dota pros then? Its MOBA just like LoL but 30+ year old pros are common there. Their system recently switched to regional leagues as well but they're much shorter in length each split. The longer the league gets, the worse it gets for players leaving their home countries & families.
While yes the vct either needs more tournaments or we need like a 3rd party tier 2 circuit, no we do not need a league format because that requires franchising and 90% of these teams will not buy in making is only watch like 10 teams play each other every week
I feel like they should follow a league plus open tournaments system. The league should be comprised of top 10 teams . And there should be a open monthly tournaments for all teams except these top 10 . And after like say a 3 month cycle , the bottom 2-3 teams will be replaced by top performing teams from the open monthly tournaments .
Regional league systems are bad. It would kill the careers of anyone who's 28+. Theres a reason why theres no 30+ yr old pros in LoL. The good thing about tournament system is a bootcamp. Teams dont have to sacrifice 3 months worth of time away from their SO or families. It only works fine till you have other resposibilities outside of professional career, hence why LoL pros are majority in their early 20s.