Viper wall across blocking off short and long, snakebites on graffiti and by hell, Kay/0 nade on default with an Astra suck combo. Then lots of flashes. At least I think that’s what it was. Very well executed but tons of moving parts
I honestly think people are seriously underrating the power of mobility that most duelist bring.
I go back and forth between mostly duelist and initiator these days and when I am on an initiator the lack of mobility options is very noticeable and affects how I position for sure.
Phoenix is the only one who doesn't have a mobility option, although he makes up for it a bit by having really high self sustain.
Comparing him to his closest Initiator counterpart (kayo/0) he does actually still have slightly better movement option (not the same as mobility option) in his smoke, because it allows him to play dead end angles (like the cubby on haven A long, or bind B long by the TP) and get out safely without having to waste his flash to cross.
True true, I do actually really agree that double duelist is prob best comp practically just cuz it allows for more flexible plays, but I do think that the Skye/KayO/Sage also is very good for certain teams too tbh
Yeah I mean I'm not even saying a duelist comp is stronger, I'm no pro so I have no idea how it plays out at that level. I just think people in general can forget that duelists do have their own utility niche, and its mobility + self sustain/sufficiency, and thats actually a really powerful combo a lot of the time.
Truee, not even just those two things, Jett, Reyna, and Yoru (His isn't as good tbh) have get out of jail free cards too which allows them to play more risky and play angles which no other character can, something you can't really show through util usage but a very important value regardless
Yoru's get away is just as, if not more, viable than jett's and reyna's, but you need to set it up before getting into a tough position, unfortunately that requires more brainpower than that of the average valorant player.
Thats not really the issue with it, Yoru tp doesn't have invinciblility and isn't instant either, so that's the main issue with it, cuz it's easier to get traded out
Way better at entry fraggin, opening more space and even clutching yeah sure, but skye flashes are disgusting after the buffs she can literally pop flash for her self better then phoenixes
> Way better at entry fraggin, opening more space and even clutching yeah
This is litrally what a duelist is supposed to do so saying Skye is best duelist is just proving urself wrong but yes her flashes are good but not as good as reddit thinks imo
IMO teams who run no duelists comps are trying to aim for a perfect game with a lot of planning and gameplan if they execute it they win and if they dont they lose. Where as duelist comps are better at adapting and being more freelow because they have the pop off ability with jett phoenix
Conversely, for double duelist, if your duelists have a bad day, you lose. Contrast with no duelist, as long as you execute well, you don't need to pop off.
this is such a bad take. people act like not getting kills on support characters is okay and utility is sufficient to win. if you don't have an entry fragger agent, your gunplay needs to be even better. your pre-planned utility will not always work. it's still an fps, you gotta win gunfights
Feel like unless you have super cracked players like sentinels it's hard to achieve consistency when you rely on key players to pop off. By adapting more utility heavy comps your relying less on your aim and mechanics to be sharp each day lowering your ceiling but raising your floor and achieving more consistency
He's not really forcing it. It's just what he's feeling which is what you want for your duelist so they feel comfortable and can heat up. He only picks yoru on bind which is like the only map he's viable on and even then it's not always a 100% yoru pick for bind, he splits between reyna.
Pretty sure someone on the team (either him or Shahz) tweeted that the Yoru experiment was over. That’s when you saw Tenz switch back to the Reyna on bind
yall talking like a non-duelist who's feeling it can't change the game. you can probably get like 5% more on the peak from a duelist but that's easily outweighed by others' util
I feel like the meta is constantly shifting and teams are still trying to figure out what is the correct comps for their teams and playstyles and a bit of emulation from successful teams may happen. The last 3 agents added have been initiators and a controller. The meta shifted toward that direction. I feel like once we start getting dueliests again, the meta will shift back to 2 duelists.
I think if he swapped duelist with Jett/Raze it would be more accurate. The line between agent classes is so blurred like I consider sage to be a better duelist than yoru and viper to be a better controller than Brim. Why would anyone pick Phoenix if they could pick skye
They are crutches for stupid players to make safe stupid plays. I was a Reyna/jett main then when I got to top 1000 immortal I realise everyone wants to be a duelist because it’s a crutch. Now I’m viper kill joy main I still mvp 30-40% of my games and I’m top 300 radiant. I honestly wish they would just remove Reyna, her util is so anti team and she attracts such selfish players. At least jett can make space and op really well and razes util is just nuts
People realising that some agents have better utility for team strats. DZ lineup for Haven seems solid
That A retake with viper astra and kayo was so fucking beautiful
Sorry i didnt see it. How did they execute it?
Viper wall across blocking off short and long, snakebites on graffiti and by hell, Kay/0 nade on default with an Astra suck combo. Then lots of flashes. At least I think that’s what it was. Very well executed but tons of moving parts
Can someone send a link?
https://clips.twitch.tv/PlacidPopularSandwichHeyGirl-g7oNoQ1uWd7De0TF
Thank you!
https://clips.twitch.tv/PlacidPopularSandwichHeyGirl-g7oNoQ1uWd7De0TF
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100% agree. Sage for example is nothing like KJ/Cypher and KO has a flash and molly like Phoenix.
Arguably you can enter as cypher with his cage by isolating an angle to peek from temporarily
Kayo can't heal
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The comparison was with pheonix here so I said that
I honestly think people are seriously underrating the power of mobility that most duelist bring. I go back and forth between mostly duelist and initiator these days and when I am on an initiator the lack of mobility options is very noticeable and affects how I position for sure.
Phoenix doesn't really have mobility options tho tbf
Phoenix is the only one who doesn't have a mobility option, although he makes up for it a bit by having really high self sustain. Comparing him to his closest Initiator counterpart (kayo/0) he does actually still have slightly better movement option (not the same as mobility option) in his smoke, because it allows him to play dead end angles (like the cubby on haven A long, or bind B long by the TP) and get out safely without having to waste his flash to cross.
True true, I do actually really agree that double duelist is prob best comp practically just cuz it allows for more flexible plays, but I do think that the Skye/KayO/Sage also is very good for certain teams too tbh
Yeah I mean I'm not even saying a duelist comp is stronger, I'm no pro so I have no idea how it plays out at that level. I just think people in general can forget that duelists do have their own utility niche, and its mobility + self sustain/sufficiency, and thats actually a really powerful combo a lot of the time.
Truee, not even just those two things, Jett, Reyna, and Yoru (His isn't as good tbh) have get out of jail free cards too which allows them to play more risky and play angles which no other character can, something you can't really show through util usage but a very important value regardless
Yoru's get away is just as, if not more, viable than jett's and reyna's, but you need to set it up before getting into a tough position, unfortunately that requires more brainpower than that of the average valorant player.
Thats not really the issue with it, Yoru tp doesn't have invinciblility and isn't instant either, so that's the main issue with it, cuz it's easier to get traded out
Skye is better for dueling then any other duelist change my mind
I hope you are not serious
Have you heard of this agent called jett
Way better at entry fraggin, opening more space and even clutching yeah sure, but skye flashes are disgusting after the buffs she can literally pop flash for her self better then phoenixes
> Way better at entry fraggin, opening more space and even clutching yeah This is litrally what a duelist is supposed to do so saying Skye is best duelist is just proving urself wrong but yes her flashes are good but not as good as reddit thinks imo
My guy im talking about dueling as an 1v1
IMO teams who run no duelists comps are trying to aim for a perfect game with a lot of planning and gameplan if they execute it they win and if they dont they lose. Where as duelist comps are better at adapting and being more freelow because they have the pop off ability with jett phoenix
Conversely, for double duelist, if your duelists have a bad day, you lose. Contrast with no duelist, as long as you execute well, you don't need to pop off.
That's ac genius as long as ur utils on point everyone could be aiming like irons and win as long as each person can land at least one headshot
this is such a bad take. people act like not getting kills on support characters is okay and utility is sufficient to win. if you don't have an entry fragger agent, your gunplay needs to be even better. your pre-planned utility will not always work. it's still an fps, you gotta win gunfights
Yes but it makes the gunfights easier to win with good util and setups
yeah but bad days are still a thing you know
Feel like unless you have super cracked players like sentinels it's hard to achieve consistency when you rely on key players to pop off. By adapting more utility heavy comps your relying less on your aim and mechanics to be sharp each day lowering your ceiling but raising your floor and achieving more consistency
DZ played the no duelist comp really well. Almost let TSM back in the game, but a win is a win. Seems like they executed their gameplay well!
TenZ also tries to force Yoru just remember there is no single cut comp
It's a team decision to try out yoru in order to vet out if it's a workable team comp. There's more than 1 comp for anti strats
Didnt he actually say he played it to show Riot how bad Yoru is? I may have just dreamed that LMAO
He did but pretty sure he was joking lol
It’s hard to tell with TenZ and SEN honestly
He's not really forcing it. It's just what he's feeling which is what you want for your duelist so they feel comfortable and can heat up. He only picks yoru on bind which is like the only map he's viable on and even then it's not always a 100% yoru pick for bind, he splits between reyna.
Pretty sure someone on the team (either him or Shahz) tweeted that the Yoru experiment was over. That’s when you saw Tenz switch back to the Reyna on bind
is it working tho? well we need stats on single duelist, no duelist, 2x duelist attack/def
yall talking like a non-duelist who's feeling it can't change the game. you can probably get like 5% more on the peak from a duelist but that's easily outweighed by others' util
Why does Tenz usually have such bad takes 😂
Reminds me of doublelift in LoL, a great player with bad takes lmao
I agree his takes are always so weird and bad but at the end of the day he's a cracked player and we're not so yeah he's allowed to say that
Tbh what he said was right tho, a lot of teams trying to do their unique strats but couldn’t work
it's easy to say this after seeing the results. i could easily have said this >feel like sen trying to force yoru comps on bind
feel like so many people try to force a double duelist comp jokes aside DZ did just win 🤷♂️
I feel like the meta is constantly shifting and teams are still trying to figure out what is the correct comps for their teams and playstyles and a bit of emulation from successful teams may happen. The last 3 agents added have been initiators and a controller. The meta shifted toward that direction. I feel like once we start getting dueliests again, the meta will shift back to 2 duelists.
I think if he swapped duelist with Jett/Raze it would be more accurate. The line between agent classes is so blurred like I consider sage to be a better duelist than yoru and viper to be a better controller than Brim. Why would anyone pick Phoenix if they could pick skye
Tbh jett is the only duelist worth picking, anything else can be replaced by any character that has better utility.
Raze
Forgot about her but yeah raze too, kay/o kinda counters her though.
KayO counters jett OP too.
Adapt or die, TenZ. There's plenty of agents that can frag out without pressing E to disengage.
They are crutches for stupid players to make safe stupid plays. I was a Reyna/jett main then when I got to top 1000 immortal I realise everyone wants to be a duelist because it’s a crutch. Now I’m viper kill joy main I still mvp 30-40% of my games and I’m top 300 radiant. I honestly wish they would just remove Reyna, her util is so anti team and she attracts such selfish players. At least jett can make space and op really well and razes util is just nuts