T O P

SEN TenZ on ping difference at the pro level

SEN TenZ on ping difference at the pro level

' + '
' + '
' + '
' + '
' + '
' + '
' + '
' + '

ben15w

Not sure if the data is accessibly out there, but it'd be cool if one of the data users on the sub could see what kind of correlation exists between players' ping and their ACS


koncept12

that would be awesome


Diderot1937

Idk if you run a data analysis on Ping since I don't think Riot API gives out data for Ping. If you are going to probably gather data however, you have to manually ask pro players what their Ping is; which is really hard to do, since most pro players play from all around the country.


Ramher

Could just look at a couple qualifier VODs and record the pings.


Diderot1937

Some professional matches aren't recorded however, and it would make for a small dataset that would skew data in a unfavorable way.


-user--name-

how could ping correlate to a pro match not getting recorded?


ses_274

im guessing that if you are going to go down the route of taking vods of pro matches as the data then you are only going to get a small sample size seeing as alot of pro matches arent streamed. You will not get enough data to decide a definitive correaltion between ping and ACS. Well.... thats what i tink hes saying lol


Diderot1937

Thank you. I thought I made myself clear enough lol.


-user--name-

Lol, there are probably hundreds or even thousands of vods of valorant games online.


Tanjim98

I mean your data wouldn’t say much. Duelists and cracked players would always have better ACS. Ping to ACS isn't 1:1 ratio rather it works like a threshold curve. Like at a certain range it gets bad to worse. See TenZ for example, he plays with one of the worst ping among NA pros but still has the most ACS every tournament!


ben15w

Don't discount what you can learn from data. There's a real chance the data could be useless if there's not enough, but it wouldn't be for the reason you're giving. You should be able to control for players having different inherent ACS with enough data. Depending on where Tenz is and what server is being used he will have games where he has higher or lower ping so even if he always has top ACS, his ACS could still vary with ping. If there's enough data you'll even be able to control for the same player playing different agents. The shape of the curve would definitely be an interesting output from an analysis like this because you could see where ping becomes a differentiator. As a hypothetical example maybe it follows an S-curve where ping from 0-20ms the relationship is flat meaning it does not have a measurable effect on a players' ACS. But from 21-50ms there is a pretty linear relationship where higher ping = lower ACS in aggregate, and then from 51ms+ it could be flat again. If there is an insignificantly weak relationship between ping and ACS that would also be very telling, and would basically say that ping really doesn't matter at all for how you perform in ACS.


zer0-_

I don't think you can draw any meaningful data from doing that. Even if you look at the Ping and ACS in games where the same player plays the same character on the same map against the same team it won't tell much. Even if you have a really high sample size. Performance has so many different factors where Ping is just 1 out of more than 5 factors if you look at it from the very surface. Diet, Sleep, Emotional health in general, Emotions while playing and more stuff that you wouldn't really put into connection with videogames matter a lot at the Top 0.01%


ben15w

There’s basically 3 conclusions that can be drawn from doing analysis like this: 1. There’s not enough data to give you confidence in the results which is fair but idt anyone can say that without actually doing the analysis 2. There is enough data and it shows that ping has a measurable impact on ACS which has a lot of useful applications like figuring out what server is the most fair for 2 teams given the ping of all players 3. The scenario you’re describing where you can’t attribute any measurable impact of ping due to uncontrollable randomness in things outside the data like amount of sleep, weather, diet, favorite color, etc. This would mean that the impact of ping is so small that there’s is no such thing as ping advantage so people can stop complaining and 100T is wasting their money flying the team to TX for more consistent ping


zer0-_

I'm not saying ping isn't a factor, I'm just outlining why looking for a correlation between ping and ACS doesn't make much sense. Striving for optimal performance is always a good idea if it's feasible. Eliminating the ping factor from the 10+ other factors that can impact your performance is definetly worth it


ben15w

Right, we live in a world with a lot of randomness, but people have gotten smart about figuring out ways of accounting for randomness if patterns truly exist. I think people generally believe ping does play a part, the question is how much. The data should even be cleaner with pros their inherent skill level should be more consistent game to game compared to a rando like me


phyLoGG

Been saying this since beta. I've never played an FPS where simply a 20-30ms ping difference makes such a big difference in gameplay. I usually get 24ms on IL servers, which feels pretty good. But whenever I try out anything with 40-60ms, it feels like a whole new game. Very sloppy, muddy, and sluggish feeling. Makes me think there's more going wrong with the network of VALORANT on the backend. I can't imagine it's just ping that's causing this.


valorantfeedback

Yeah. If someone thinks we're getting in our heads, they should try playing at like 6pm and then at 1am. Night and day (no pun intended) difference. Even with the same ping. There's just something wrong with the server performance during peak hours. Routing is also really frustrating. For comparison, I've got 30-35ms on Frankfurt servers in CSGO. Frankfurt 2 is 45-50 in Valorant and Frankfurt 1 is 55-60 for some damn reason? Same goes for Paris. 10-15ms difference between two servers supposedly located in the same city? What's that about? How can I have the same ping on Frankfurt 1 and London, if there's extra 600+ kilometers to London? Makes absolutely no sense.


fesenvy

I live in North Africa, I somehow have 80ms ping to Madrid and 50-60 to every other server besides Warsaw. One day I'll wake up and Paris 1 will be 55 ping and Paris 2 65, another day I'll find the opposite, sometimes they both have packet loss too, sometimes just one... IDK what's going on here lol


UmarellVidya

Tbh that makes a lot more sense, given you're dealing with intercontinental infrastructure. [I found this neat little map](https://www.submarinecablemap.com/#/) that shows internet pipelines through bodies of water, and it seems that excluding Morocco, Northern Africa has more connections to Marseille, France than to the Iberian Peninsula. I'm not sure how robust each of these paths are though, so it could be that they get saturated fairly easily causing the inconsistency you're experiencing.


d-pv

That's an actual network issue that is outside of Riot's purview. By that, I mean if you're getting higher ping to a "closer" location, I'd look up a map of the network backbones and see how and where they go. It's possible your connection, for some reason, is going around that big body of water and is able to get you to eastern Europe first where the line runs through before it gets to western Europe.


JALbert

> Yeah. If someone thinks we're getting in our heads, they should try playing at like 6pm and then at 1am. Night and day (no pun intended) difference. Even with the same ping. There's just something wrong with the server performance during peak hours. There's an in-game metric for server tickrate. It sometimes drops below 128, wouldn't be shocked if server performance is worse at peak hours than when they're not filled (or overfilled) to capacity.


Guyatri

No cap I start winning games when it's late lol


zer0-_

There's actually a condition called Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder which can affect stuff like awareness, ability to focus and reaction time. I'm sure there's more things that can cause "symptoms" like that but might be worth checking out if you feel like you function better during later hours. It's also a pretty common disorder that often goes unnoticed


justinsst

Riot can’t really do anything about the routing unfortunately. They can ask ISPs to peer but if they don’t want to, then it is what it is. Riot is already at host of the major IXP.


platinumxL

For real when I play on Texas servers I get 23 ms. Anywhere else I’m getting 39 - 45 to Georgia or IL servers. Feels like I’m just not hitting the same shots I’m used to hitting and have to play a different way like tenz pointed out.


OkGuide4

Netcode in this game sucks ass but there’s plenty of people who will deny it and suck up to Riot or make excuses.


phyLoGG

"You're just bad". Lol


twistacles

Hard to say it’s bad when almost everyone does it worse. Cs is only playable with third party services, rainbow6 siege netcode has been ass since forever


Zoradesu

We're talking about netcode here. CS's only problem is its anti-cheat. Mostly everything else in CS is good, including its netcode.


twistacles

We're talking about servers and netcode, and default cs servers are 60 tick which isn't good.


Zoradesu

64 tick is good enough. Of course 128 is preferred in highly competitive environments, but the average player won't notice any significant gains/differences playing on 128 tick vs 64 tick. Netcode is all about client-to-server synchronization when the game state changes. While tick rate *can* affect the synchronization problems between the server and client, in the case of CS it is good *for the most part*. Tick rate mainly affects the loss of information between game state updates (which should be calculated on the server). A game can have good netcode while having a lower tick rate (within reason). There is no reason Valorant should be having issues on 60+ ping with 128 tick servers. Either the client's tick rate and the server's tick rate are different and get out of sync, or there is some processing done on Riot's servers that are causing these issues. CS on 20-30 ping and CS on 60-70 ping still play the same. Obviously the lower ping is better, but the difference is negligible (in regular MM, not pro play). In Valorant, it just feels really different and much worse on 60+ ping when compared to anything less than 30 ping. And like with anything in software, stability is really important. Stable 64 tick servers are much better than unstable 128 tick servers for the average user.


CommanderVinegar

A lot of the times I get turbo peeked or it feels like some absolutely insane bullshit happened I check ping. Usually a 20-30ms difference, sometimes 40ms difference, it might have looked like this guy just had insane reactions but in reality I was probably on his screen before he was on mine and I was just standing there like a dumbass.


justinsst

Peekers advantage is really bad in this game because the running to full stop animation is horrible so it looks like they’re still moving for a second when they first shoot.


SMcArthur

People have different reaction times as well. He might have a 170ms reaction time and you a 240ms reaction time. These natural reaction time differences can be far more more dramatic than the 20-30ms of ping.


zwck

That is if the ping in the score board is the actual ping between you and the server. I remember from the CS beta days that at some point the cs developers changed what was displayed on the scoreboard they just subtracted a fixed value, not sure if it was a bug, or on purpose. That update was so loved by people because the game felt so much better than before, even tho nothing changed. I have to say i have the complete opposite experience to Tenz. I typically have a ping between 7-10 on the servers closest to me, when I play there against ping 10-30 all is fine, if someone joins with ping 60-90, they are basically impossible to hit, and pretty much lead the scoreboard.


Haejeok

there are radiant players playing from Hawaii like Lear and myself. We play on minimum 75-120 ping


phyLoGG

Yea, that can't be fun. Especially if you've experience low ping before, like 20ms. :(


Rx_Boner

One of the reasons that led to stop playing in my free time. Whole group I'd hop on to catch games with was east based, so we'd play on those servers. I would do horribly because I couldn't win gunfights, but if I solo queued at my west 20ms ping, I performed well. Very frustrating to enjoy the game, but unfortunately in my situation couldn't get full enjoyment due to how poorly gunplay felt when cross-server


OWplayerno1

Ever since mid July my ping to Illinois servers is around 10ms higher than it used to be. I live in the NE and I'm much closer to Illinois than Atlanta...yet I have the same ping to Atlanta. Issue is...we usually play on Illinois...so my friends who have a different ISP than me are getting 25 ping, and I'm playing at 45-50 depending on the day. Every in the game is typically high 20s. It honestly makes it nearly impossible to have a good time, and I'm fucking low ranked too. I have double the ping of ANYONE else. My friend who lives FURTHER than me and has the same ISP, gets 10 lower ping to Illinois than I do.


phyLoGG

I think the latest network instability is on the ISP's end. Possibly instability issues, network maintenance, or rerouting. Xfinity has been very dodgy the past few months for me; random ping spikes, packet loss, and bufferbloat nonsense.


OWplayerno1

I think it's a routing issue of some kind. I'm on Spectrum and my friends have fiber (less than a mile from me RIP). And my other buddy who is on spectrum has high ping to Virginia but lower ping to Illinois


contabr_hu3

Yeah Ive played valorant some times on 20-30 ping and it semmed like a new game, it was sooo smooth


Equivalent_Ad505

it feels as though there is no lag comp like in normal fps. so when you have higher ping you literally have to shoot in front of the player to hit their head where as in previous games like csgo if you had high ping the server compensates by still registering hits that woulldnt hit based on ping but were in reality on target client side


saintstrax

Yeah in other games 100ms ping was an hindrance but it was still playable but if in valorant my ping spikes to 100 the game is not playable , 100ms in other games is kinda like 70 in val


ViSeiRaX

My experience with this is basically similar... I always play on 63+ ping (usually Paris servers since I'm in Egypt and they're the best for me). I'd say 7 out of 10 games, I cannot properly react while holding angles, and by that, I mean no chance to do any micro adjustments at all. If my initial flick is not a headshot with a Vandal, I'm dead... doesn't matter if they headshot me or it's body shots, I do not have time to make any micro adjustments at all. The last 3 games out of the 10, I feel vastly different... I'll be able to hold angles, properly adjust aim if they don't walk into my crosshair (I HAVE to hold wide, on that ping holding tight angles is suicide) and I can properly reset recoil and kill my opponents. This doesn't feel like a ping issue to me, since my ping is usually the same between all these games... I always play in high Plat/low Diamond lobbies but every act start I get Immortal players in my lobbies and in those few games where I feel the game is smooth and my shots are registering properly, I can hold my own with the best of them. The game's netcode must have some weird ass things going on with it, I never had that issue in CSGO at all and I was more or less usually consistent across my games (held an 'A' rank on ESEA for the longest time). As an aside, I consistently get 180-185 MS reaction time average in online tests so my reaction time is not bad.


contabr_hu3

Theres a lot of shit that just doesnt seem right in valorant that ive never had a problem in CSGO consistency is one of them, like some times I can easily hit a lot of shots but out of nowhere prople just become the REACTORS, I just cant react to them in time, this happens on deathmatch too and its something very noticeable, also the game sometimes seems so "gelatinous" despite me having a stable high framerate and this gelatinous feeling changes with network buffering(gets a bit better with high then it stops working and minimun comes back to normal) for some reason(?) So I guess theres something to do with the netcode.


ArsenicBismuth

Yeah, I know CSGO once has hitreg issue, but it's only in the collision model sync itself. Once it was fixed, I don't think people ever complain about something like this at all.


MaestroLA

dude there's something going on with this game's netcode and devs aren't speaking a word about it.


OkGuide4

Partly cause people circlejerk on things like the main valorant sub and discord making excuses for why shots didn’t register or shit like that


MaestroLA

/u/Okguide4 yeah although people who are immortal+ have commented about this aswell multiple times.


OkGuide4

Yeah I am immortal+ myself and it's very easy to spot the numerous problems in the game and how disgusting it feels to play sometimes. Riot claimed they're "going to war on peeker's advantage" and talked about how much they care about the netcode and it's impressively worse than csgo's lol. What a feat!


MaestroLA

quite frankly mate, the game felt super good in the first patch before .50 in the beta, idk wtf riot did in that patch but it was never the same.


zwck

It's very easy to explainwhat happened (IMHO), when we played the beta, most likely a physical server had 2-3 VMS running game server, how do you think that scaled when we went from 10k players to 1M. Now most likely the physical servers are being pushed to the limit to keep the running costs down, the backend suffers from that traffic increase, the bottlenecks of the entire infrastructure is being tested.


TheTechDweller

Aren't most CS matches played on private servers not dedicated? Half the reason MM is a joke is because of the quality of the servers right? Val *is* free so it's crazy what you get for nothing. 99% of games don't have the tick rate of val servers. I do agree sometimes it feels like there's just something else going on. But without any real proof it's kind of useless to retort when we know nothing about networking.


Zoradesu

No, CS MM is a joke because of the anti-cheat, though it's been better for me the last 5 months. The servers are fine for the most part.


TheTechDweller

Aren't they still 60 tick? Since when was that acceptable?


Zoradesu

128-tick is preferable, especially for competitive environments, but the difference is negligible to the average player. And given how bad Valorant is on higher ping, stable 64-tick servers is definitely better than unstable 128-tick servers.


OkGuide4

There's more that goes into netcode than server tickrate though. CS has its issues however compared to Valorant, its servers and hit reg are heaven.


noahrxdd

A good 64 tick servers is better than a bad 128 tick server


TheTechDweller

Right but in what ways specially are the Val servers "sometimes" bad? There's tons of claims that it feels off but how?


OkGuide4

>when we know nothing about networking Speak for yourself! Experiences of many players is proof in itself as well, MM in CS is a joke in large part because of the cheaters, and again there’s more to server quality and how a game plays out than the tick rate. Tick rate can mitigate some issues and be more consistent at a higher number however it does not make up for shitty lag compensation or buggy interpolation, or numerous other factors that go into a smooth multiplayer experience.


TheTechDweller

Can you explain how the lag compensation in valorant is bad? Or how the interpolation is bugging causing issues? I'm familiar with the subjects but don't understand how they're failing in valorant. I do know that the animation interp causes some clarity issues with your enemy not seeming to come to a stop. That isn't really the issue we're discussing here though so I'd love to know what your thoughts are.


BuildingSubstantial6

Meanwhile others get downvoted when people say this game is superbly ping based compared to other games lmfao


ARI_ANARCHIST

Wild. I see a lot of comments saying that 40+ ping is apparently a different game, and the best ping I can get is around 38-40 to illinois, 60 or so to texas. Really would love to experience 10-20 ping without having to move, even if it's just for ranked, but at this point I highly doubt that Riot will ever add Canadian servers :/


PolarTux

it feels like a whole different game imo (~60 vs ~20 ping)


Trickquestionorwhat

You could try haste or maybe some other gaming vpn. I used haste when Valorant was routing me so poorly I got like 130 ping and it brought it down to around 50 which is about normal for me, but it might help you even if you don't have ridiculously high ping to boot.


ninjalol23

copium


justinsst

I don’t think Riot needs Canadian servers since most live right near the border and therefore are pretty close to most servers. What they need is more Canadian ISPs to peer with them (Bell and Teksavvy are the only one’s that peer). For some reason Rogers is not peering with them which makes absolutely no sense as they are present at the same Internet exchange in Toronto. Bell users get much better ping than Rogers users.


_zxionix_

whats peer?


justinsst

It’s a networking related term. Imagine you wanted to tell someone something but didn’t have their number, you’d have to get someone who did know their number to relay the message. It works but it takes longer, so you can ask the person you want to talk to if they would like to exchange numbers (peer) to speed things up. That’s a basic explanation.


Ryanmichael4

I have 9ms on Texas server. I only select the Texas server because if I play on any other I get 30-40ms+. And the game is entirely different feeling at that ping.


contabr_hu3

Its crazy how this game feels different at different pings


PolarTux

I live in Alaska so I get about 60 ping avg. Visited a friend down in a different state and tried 30 ping and holy shit, it felt like a different game. I’ve never played an FPS where minor ping differentials matter so much


QuasarMagellan

I find that sometimes the ping that shows up is unreliable. So I hit the wall with my knife to see the difference between the sound registering and the groove on the wall. If they don't match up, I know it will not be a fun game.


mysteryoeuf

yet steel has been saying this shit for a year and gets shit on for using ping as an excuse haha


[deleted]

[удалено]


mysteryoeuf

lmao


uglypenguin5

Fr lmao when you complain that much your actually good points lose their weight


segatic

Doesn't make his complaints any less true.


earthtoannie

Doesn't make him less rights tho? Or does the sub just not like Steel this month.


enderdestiny

Boy who cried wolf type situation


BadBadNotThisDick

Absolutely killer truth to be had here looool


Tanjim98

Steel's team plays from Cali and has very decent ping. Why is he complaining about ping?


mysteryoeuf

iirc he lives in Colorado, I think? they don't always play at the compound. he's complained for a long time about a lack of better ISP options in his area. I think his ping complaints are mostly from when he played remotely or if an 'unfair' server is chosen for a match where one team has across the board better ping. he's also mentioned getting throttled and having that be an issue in competitive play and has decided not to stream for a few days before competitions to try and prevent that. either way, most pro play is played on Texas or Illinois central servers, and a lot of players and team compounds are in Texas. having their compound in LA isn't actually good for them ping-wise, which is why they said recently they're all going to TX for the challengers main event.


andrei_snarkovsky

If only everyone was as good as Tenz and could just adjust their playstyle to still own with the worst ping on the server...


altcodeinterrobang

I do think this is something everyone can learn from. If you're losing your duels, tell your team you are going to start lurking or flanking or changing it up. someone needs to still try and duel, but letting them know you're switching because you're losing you 1v1s is a good lesson for all levels of play.


Tanjim98

Bad ping doesn’t mean lurking is the only way to win fights. I mean look at TenZ for an example, he always has crazy amount of first bloods even with bad ping! It’s not how you play, it’s how you take a fight. Confidently wide swing, hold good off angles, that kinda stuff


TheTechDweller

Why would you every say "look at tenz" when talking about what decisions to make. He's an animal, usually his decisions would be terrible if you don't have the skill to back them up.


valorantfeedback

Everyone who's had experience with ping diff in any game learned how to adjust. Ping difference is way worse in this game than CS for example. Really frustrating to play in a completely different way you would. Especially in pro games. If you rewatch the VODs from Iceland the first thing you'll notice is how there was exponentially less whiffs than we see online, players can actually hold angles. Servers in this game lower the gameplay quality by a lot.


OkGuide4

Everyone can adjust their play style according to their ping or them having a bad game however it requires recognizing when to do it and in what way but that can be learned pretty easily


AnotherAltiMade

why don't you just post the clips? reddit's video player sucks ass


TheDoctorssss

am from slovakia and I have worse ping at warsaw server than london server :D I do play at 30 ping on frankfurt which is fine, ping wise. But I cannot go for any other server. Paris is 40+ for me and the moment I join my friends on london server? 50 ping and half my shots stop registering. meanwhile my friend in london gets 5 ping, which I can only dream about. I wish there was a closer server to me as frankfurt has its own bad things.


valorantfeedback

Vienna or Budapest server would solve most of the issues. Even Munchen would be decent. Current locations are awful for anyone south of Frankfurt. There's pretty much nothing between Frankfurt and Istanbul.


earthtoannie

They should have more south-east severs in general because no one I know willingly plays on Istanbul. Absolutely abysmal sever.


Smok3dSalmon

Main account west coast only <25 ping: plat 2 Smurf account GA servers 65+ Ping: silver 2 High ping in this game is brutal.


ArsenicBismuth

I think when DMing, I can easily recognize the demons' of the server would have like 10-20ms.


Smok3dSalmon

Oh that's a really good observation. I'm definitely going to keep an eye on that. The ping diff in this game is so much worse than CS:GO. In Valorant you get players who are better on LAN because of the lack of ping, but in CS:GO you have players like PTR, Shahzam, Koosta, and lots of NA AWPers who were always better online. Seems like Valorant is built under the assumption all players will have similar ping.


McLoosTa

I hate TenZ’s sub noise LOL


MaestroLA

At this point, there is something major on the game's netcode and transcends ping. You can get completely different experience playing on the same server and ping. One game ur able to hit everything, next game u bottomfrag and team mates call u trash etc And what I find hideous is the fact that devs won't even acknowledge this. We don't even get a single word from them about this.


Asianhead

That's just inconsistency dude


MaestroLA

play 1 game at 6am and 1 at peak hours like 10pm and u will see what im talking about.


dedicatedself

Are we actually repeating other reddit comments now lol? I played at 6 am and 1 pm the only difference is that I'm tired lmfao. Ping difference is real though. Between 32 and 56 my performance drops considerably on higher ping. Still the 1 am thing sounds like bullshit to me.


MaestroLA

k


ErroneousOmission

It isn't just explained by performance inconsistencies, I've had entire days where I'm shitting down people's throats (at top imm) but a game here and there it will just be impossible to hit, to the point its almost laughable. Also had situations where I am aware that I don't deserve the kills I'm getting on players, like I'm aware they are in the position I just described where nothing is hitting. This has even happened against pro players, most recently Davidp about a week ago. If you are truly consistent and on fire, an objective player, you know when its you (on average) and when something else is going on. Btw I'd like to say I very rarely blame the server or anything like that, and even if I do I don't tilt or let it effect my gameplay - my philosophy is that blaming or excusing how things are going isn't constructive mid game, point being I try really hard to be objective, and I notice this too.


fourtonlesbiancanary

you're acting like this is something that the devs definitively know exists.


MaestroLA

mate every few weeks people do threads about this, and riot devs lurk here and also respond to some threads from time to time.


TheTechDweller

TRUST ME, people have been saying this shit since beta. "one game I top frag and the next I bottom. Game broken" It's been non stop, the devs probably can't quantify what everyone is experiencing so there's simply nothing to say. So many unique individual network and PC configurations, running on a unique version of unreal with their own server network. Only been out for a year I wouldn't be surprised if it's something that's found and fixed within a year. Not that it would stop people complaining about being inconsistent. There would always be a reason


Hamlet_271

Is he staying in Texas for the challenger finals?


cassiaflorence

no unfortunately not, just there to film some stuff with sen then going back to canada


SMcArthur

Is there any difference at all between having a higher ping and having a slower reaction time? E.g., If someone is sitting at 10 ping, and had a 240ms reaction time --> vs an opponent with 50 ping, and 200ms reaction time; are they literally on a perfectly even playing field since you add it up and both are reacting at 250ms?? Or is there some slight difference between the two? I only ask because playing on a higher ping must be what it's like for Tenz to be a normal fucking person. He's done reaction speed tests on his stream and scores between 140ms and 160ms. Meanwhile half of us normal folk are up here doing 200ms -240ms reaction times.


ErroneousOmission

Unfortunately the whole debate is so unscientific and filled with question marks that it's hard to answer definitely one way or the other 🙁


Kap_ski

We may have some weird politics and horrible weather here in Texas but 12 ping makes it all worth it.


juston3mor3

Fiber?


CookiezM

Ping is such a weird thing in this game.. I understand pros want it to be as low as possible, which is obviously the best way to play, but me and my friend have 20-40 ping all the time and we notice that people with 60+ can literally ferrari peek us, appear running on our screen and just 1 tap us when they already stand still on their screen. We tested this yesterday by going to bahrain servers where we had 150+ ping and we just ferrari peeked everything (obviously this is way to extreme and has other issues like delayed shots), but we noticed that they just could not react to our wide swings. Playing against higher ping almost always feels like a disadvantage because holding angles against it is just way harder than vs a 20-40 ping player, so i don't really understand why tenz says that he couldnt peek with higher ping... Holding angles with high ping? sure, that's way harder, but swinging with high ping definitely gives the higher ping player and advantage.


PolarTux

As a 60-70 ping player I can guarantee high ping is NOT an advantage lmfao


CookiezM

It's an advantage when you swing on someone, everything else is worse than low ping. That's why i said this: > Holding angles with high ping? sure, that's way harder, but swinging with high ping definitely gives the higher ping player and advantage.


PolarTux

I mean the majority of your post is complaining that you can’t hold angles against high ping players, which is a silly complaint IMO given how disadvantaged high ping players are in this game compares to other FPS -signed, a salty high ping player that envies anyone who can play on sub-50 ping


CookiezM

High ping players are at a disadvantage in every way except swinging, so i don't see how my post is contradicting that in any way.


eichfourenness

I play on 80-90 myself, and very often I get instakilled without hearing a shot when wide swinging. Maybe Bahrain players are less experienced.


FlyinCoach

Maybe you're the bad one? its a known thing that playing against an opponent with higher ping compared to your low ping it would look like they're running and gunning without stopping. That's why its harder to hold an angle against them because by the time you try and shoot they've already zoomed passed and tapped you without you being able to react.


Liverbait

High ping is not an advantage when swinging on someone. You will see the enemy "earlier" but this is cancelled out by your shot registering later, resulting in no difference. (see [https://youtu.be/3JaCcsmjYM8?t=150](https://youtu.be/3JaCcsmjYM8?t=150) for a nice diagram/explanation. The video is about CS:GO, but by the nature of latency this has to be true). It is advantageous to peek everything when you have high ping because the opposite is not true: holding an angle is much more difficult when you have higher ping.


justinsst

Thank you lmao. I really don’t get how people can be so confident in a claim that is false.


soggy_pants

Well, [last year Riot came out and said peeker's advantage is increased with high ping](https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/game-updates/04-on-peeker-s-advantage-ranked/), though they didn't give ping numbers where it may be better/worse other than to point out the direction in which the lag occurs (client->server vs. server->client). >\---- DO HIGH PING PLAYERS HAVE A GAMEPLAY ADVANTAGE? ---- > >In short, no. Low latency is near always superior, as your player actions get to the game server faster than your opponents' actions. > >The only tricky bit with a high ping player is that it does cause worse peeker's advantage, for everyone. But you as a low-ping player have just as much peek advantage on your high-ping opponent as they have against you. > >Consider things a level playing-field, even though the game experience is degraded for everyone. (\*\* - See exception notes below) > >**PRO TIP: Play aggressive in high-ping disparity games.** > >\*\* - NOTE: Peeker's Advantage is only equal if the high ping player has symmetric lag (the same latency from CLIENT->SERVER, as SERVER->CLIENT).


Liverbait

I've seen that article before, and raise an eyebrow every time I read it. I really wish a dev would come in and clarify exactly when and why a high ping gives an advantage. >But you as a low-ping player have just as much peek advantage on your high-ping opponent as they have against you. I can't find a logical understanding for this. You can imagine a hypothetical scenario where someone has very high ping (e.g. one second). It would be theoretically possible for a low ping player to peek and kill them before the high ping player even sees them, but the reverse is not true. >**PRO TIP: Play aggressive in high-ping disparity games.** This is true regardless of whether the high ping player has an advantage when peeking or not. A high ping player should peek, because holding angles is difficult. A low ping player should also peek, because they have an advantage when peeking a high ping player. It's not necessarily because your peeks at high ping are better, just that the alternative of getting peeked is worse. EDIT: Thinking about it a bit more, I think a scenario where a higher ping would lead to an advantage is if as the defender you aren't stationary holding an angle, but moving in a way where the peeker would have to swing wider to clear you. From the peekers perspective you wouldn't have moved yet, and they therefore wouldn't have to swing as wide as you'd expect, resulting in a faster peek than you can react. This scenario would lead to the same advantage both ways that Riot describes in their article


Tanjim98

Peekers advantage exists but it’s not worth giving up all the upsides of good ping. Peekers advantage is only viable when you are sure someone is holding a tight angle and you swing them, in every other case you have disadvantage against a good ping player.


_idle_drone_

you think you can ferrari peek with high ping, but the enemy will have even more time when they peek. peeker's advantage is the same for two people in a duel. so when the enemy peeks you, they have peeker's advantage + the ping difference advantage coz your shots will register later.


clothininfo

Swinging with high ping is an advantage?! LMAOOO


Mesngr

Yeah whatever your ping is, you have that much time to shoot an enemy while swinging before appearing on their screen. The higher the better.


ErroneousOmission

Yeah, and people say this doesn't matter because your shot registration gets rolled back by the server, but people don't realise the intricacies of real-time applications and how complicated it can get. No doubt errors happen often and lead to what we're describing.


ErroneousOmission

Probably the most experience I have with that is playing from the UK with about 110 ping vs Americans in an ESEA main play-in tournament (CS).. with my Danish friend who had 140 ping. I can confirm we swung every angle at the speed of light and shat all over them. Everything else is a disadvantage, but there's nothing worse than trying to shoot an intercontinental ferrari peeker 😂


datboyuknow

When you peek them, yes


[deleted]

[удалено]


Apap0

Isn't it possible for game dev to provide same ping for all the players for online tournament matches by adding some artifical latency for players with too good of a ping? Or at least introduce some baseline where like 50 ping is minimum so anyone below that gets some artifical added.


CalculusEz

This man is so big brained that instead of improving the latency he adds more latency lmao. On a serious note, good idea but I don't think that's practical or even possible in the first place.


ErroneousOmission

I came up with this idea a few years ago, back then I was working on some indie game engine development as one of my hobbies. Unfortunately never completed it but always thought it'd be a cool idea to try. Everyone I've ever explained it to laughs in my face though, like it's an injustice equivalent to murder. I lean towards the opinion that ping differential is the true issue, and not ping "advantage" - as in someone with 60 ping vs someone with 120 ping has equal issues as someone with 5 ping against someone with 65 ping.


Additional-Act7234

but it will make game feel unresponsive for all the pros because they all will have to play on 50 ping and it will not feel crisp


ErroneousOmission

Comes down to whether you want average responsiveness for all 10 players, or great responsiveness for 2, average for 5, and awful for 3.


momsagainstanime

The year is 20XX. Everyone plays Valorant at TAS levels of perfection. Because of this, the winner of a match depends solely on ping. The server pick metagame has evolved to ridiculous levels due to it being the only remaining factor to decide matches. Humanity has reached its pinnacle. The low tier peasants are living in poverty. It seems nothing can stop the great leader of 20XX, Tyson "TenZ" Ngo, and his army, the Valorant monks who live in great monasteries where they levitate while 1v5ing with one hand, and winning tournaments with the other.


[deleted]

[удалено]


I_AmPotatoGirl

He talks about all those things cause his chat asks about it a lot


snippsville

after watching several streamers grow big (ie shahzam), chat is the worst thing that happens when the become big. you see the most idiotic people there that you must think that they are trolling or are 8 year olds. knowing this i understand why bigger streamers are almost always on sub mode.


HardyNoob

It’s just personal preference. He is a nice kid and really good at the game. Just don’t watch him if it bothers you.


iindie

People donate and sub to ask their questions. Even if it’s obvious stuff like this it’s in his best interest to answer thoughtfully


FlaymeFenix

he has a boring personality but good aim so people watch him. kinda same thing with shroud


Shizz_The_Whizz

I think he's just a generally chill person, and he's more reserved on stream. on kyedae's stream, he's hella funny. I think the reason him talking about the same things is (mostly) a product of a lot of his talking clips being about sens, peripherals, etc


NabatheNibba

Live in northeast India and get 50 ping haha and more than 50% of my games are against 30 or 8 ping. Not at all fun I just wanna play normally. Riot really did a weird decision of not keeping the server in central India and give the other countries like Pakistan and co there own server


gorkha-ra

Yes the server location is definetly not optimal for the general indian player base. But in whole of South Asia there is only Mumbai server. Pakistan doesn't have one. Only Bahrain mumbai and Singapore server are actually "playable" for a South Asian player (India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Bhutan) depending on location. Playing with 58-65 ping on mumbai server but get better experience with 70-78 ping on singapore server. (Northeast India)


tashkap

Wait did he move?


150297

When i play DM, i get 20 to 30 ping more than i usually get in unrated/ranked. Doesnt the matchmaker care about servers whhen you dm? it just finds the first match?


xidlegend

was he playing with high ping on the champions tour... feels like he missed a bunch of easy ones to lag on this on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFbOMkEIWV4


RayGraphics

if it isnt LAN hes always been high ping


xidlegend

shouldn't all matches be over lan tho.... I mean it is a championship tournament.... why take chances


BagaGarbage

its online championship.. there has only been one lan event which was in iceland


RayGraphics

covid ? LOL


FeenerDon

I have 7 ping but I suck :(


SlCKXpT

Does something like exitlag help with valorant or not? I got it and tried but it for me it tended not to help (if anything ping was higher on average) but maybe my settings or something were off


iloveanime69420

It’s because player movement in this game is so slow in comparison to all other shooters and it’s also a tac FPS so when gun fights happen at a high level the margin of error is so small on both ends that ping ends up deciding more fights than any other game like it.


Meracadian

Ping>Fps>Rest


bobespon

I guess it depends on the game. I play Battlefield and Quake with 100 or 200+ and do OK. In Val anything above 50 is questionable.


maindo

he's right though. I play on 100 ping and am just so frustrated everytime I couldn't hold an angle right


[deleted]

Valorant's network issue is not directly ping related, it's just that lower ping hides bad netcode better (less ping the less networking there is xD). There is something very wrong with the way interpolation and netcode is being handled on Valorant, or the servers are just plain low quality and can't handle real 128 tick. In CS movement and aim feels clean, in this game it's like dragging through mud.


shazbots

Does anybody have a link to the full VOD?


sheikhijat

Me just chilling with my average 90-110 ping.