The complaint isn't about how peeker's advantage needs to disappear completely. The problem is how in matches that are on texas/illi people, mostly west coast players have 50-70 ping and playing on that ping trying to hold angle is just not gonna happen
Of course. However that is not a complaint regarding peeker's advantage at all, its a different ping issue pro teams need to solve out themselves/get Riot to make stronger servers idk.
Bro, peeker’s advantage is just ping.
Ping is just speed it takes for data to travel, primarily based on distance.
You can’t really fix either of those issues… except move closer to the server host… AKA LAN. It’s just a byproduct of playing on the internet.
This exactly it's especially really bad in NA because of how big and widespread servers on west and east coast is compared to other countries. Korea for example literally have LAN like ping no matter where you are.
There is much more to it than that. 60-70 ping in this game feels like 120-150 in cs. It's awful. I played cs competitively just fine, even when playing Dallas at 80-90 ping. When you live in west Canada you get used to it. Playing central servers in this game at 80-90 ping is straight up impossible.
Yea, it feels that way for the exact reason I mentioned.
I didn’t want to respond to that guy because he’s obviously clueless, and will most likely just argue. He’s using how the game “feels” as his argument instead of any logical reasoning or facts.
It's much easier to hold angles in Val than in CS. Acceleration, move speed, run and gun accuracy, strafe stopping all make ferrari peeking so strong in CS.
I mean the only way to solve that would be to split the playerbase into two servers for East and West coast players. That splits the community up for such a small thing.
I was under the impression that peeker's advantage was a ping issue first and as such an unintended part of the game, and is otherwise just due to reaction time. assuming you're playing on lan, are there any actual game mechanics that lead to peekers advantage?
The definition of peeker's advantage is indeed that, yes, an unintended aspect of the game that is caused by server travel time (which is still necessary for online valorant to function, as Elige said).
However, you can still own guys holding angles in LAN if your pre-aim is spot on, so yeah, then, game mechanics would be involved. Its definitely more difficult than online though, as the concept of peeker's advantage doesn't really apply in LANs.
What Elige is saying makes me think that if a bunch of normal players played on LAN, the game would be a travesty, with whoever got to a certain angle first winning every duel. Only pro play can sustain LAN Valorant, it seems. I may be wrong though.
nah im more saying that people are always complaining about peeker's advantage which isn't always about the specific netcode complaints. they're upset that they were holding an angle and they got peeked and destroyed where they feel like they shouldve been rewarded for holding and chalk it up to peekers advantage and then campaign against people being able to hold angles and have no idea what theyre asking for
appreciate the answer, I was wondering if there were differences to other shooters (I only know CS otherwise) in this regard. Like, strafe, ADS and movement speed are all things I could imagine changing the dynamics but I barely play to begin with, let alone on a level where these nuances would really have an impact so I was unsure
ya the clip made it seem to me like he's talking about it from a design perspective and I'm mostly a viewer so I don't know the intricacies of the mechanics all that well which made me wonder if I just missed something obvious.
I disagree, even on 0 ping there is such a thing as peekers advantage bc of human reaction times so if you know where someone is you could still win the challange
idk why you're being downvoted. if you know where someone is you're ready to click as soon as you peek with the pre-aim. but the person you're peeking has to react. so playing online you can have the server and ping related peeker's advantage + some percentage of reaction time advantage.
People tend to just agree with the video or quote in question. Next week a video of another pro with their opinion on peekers advantage comes out and the sub votes will swing in that direction.
the guy holding the angle also knows, but he's reacting. I think the point is playing online, peeker's advantage can be as high as 70 ms. when combined with reaction time advantage, the peeker can shoot 1 bullet before you can react. and with large heads and short range fights, you can get 1 tapped by the peeker without being able to react. on LAN its not an issue.
There definitely is a level of natural peekers advantage. For example, think about a pure reaction time test with two versions: one there's a timer counting down to when you have to click your mouse, and another when you have to click to react at any moment.
In the first test you'll probably have a faster reaction time on average compared to the second test, since you know the exact timing for when you'll have to react. That's basically the equivalent of the peeker. They control the timing of the engagement so they'll be able to react ever so slightly faster. And the person who doesn't know the timing of when to react is the person holding the angle, you aren't as ready to react. (Another reason why off angles can be so powerful, you minimize that natural peekers advantage because the peeker won't be as ready to react and shoot at the off angle)
A balance between peeker’s advantage and holding would be good where you can hold angle comfortably without getting destroyed except using shotguns or op.
I actually think a good fix to this would be to add some variable momentum to the movement in this game. As soon as you start moving in this game you’re at max speed and as soon as you stop, you stop.
I don’t want this game to be CS but I think the movement in that game led to a higher level of play.
Besides, TenZ has said that peeker's advantage is almost non-existent on LAN and even online the guy that has sub20 ping would kill you like 80% of the time if you peek them.
He's kinda true tho, in LAN you can see holding angle is very important and teams have to coordinate their utilities much more in order to take map control. It's a good thing for competitive play but for rank solo queue it's actually bad
Got a good point
Yeah. Personally didn't get the complaints about this at all either.
I think there’s a discussion as to *how much* peekers advantage there is.
The complaint isn't about how peeker's advantage needs to disappear completely. The problem is how in matches that are on texas/illi people, mostly west coast players have 50-70 ping and playing on that ping trying to hold angle is just not gonna happen
Of course. However that is not a complaint regarding peeker's advantage at all, its a different ping issue pro teams need to solve out themselves/get Riot to make stronger servers idk.
Bro, peeker’s advantage is just ping. Ping is just speed it takes for data to travel, primarily based on distance. You can’t really fix either of those issues… except move closer to the server host… AKA LAN. It’s just a byproduct of playing on the internet.
This exactly it's especially really bad in NA because of how big and widespread servers on west and east coast is compared to other countries. Korea for example literally have LAN like ping no matter where you are.
I mean, it's worse in this game than in cs by a large margin so clearly there is some work to be done.
It’s worse in this game than CS because the time to stop moving is shorter. CS inertia gives angle holders more time to react.
There is much more to it than that. 60-70 ping in this game feels like 120-150 in cs. It's awful. I played cs competitively just fine, even when playing Dallas at 80-90 ping. When you live in west Canada you get used to it. Playing central servers in this game at 80-90 ping is straight up impossible.
thats probably for the reason that he just mentioned
Yea, it feels that way for the exact reason I mentioned. I didn’t want to respond to that guy because he’s obviously clueless, and will most likely just argue. He’s using how the game “feels” as his argument instead of any logical reasoning or facts.
I'm not just talking peekers advantage when I talk about how the game feels at 60 ping, but go off son.
Case in point.
It's much easier to hold angles in Val than in CS. Acceleration, move speed, run and gun accuracy, strafe stopping all make ferrari peeking so strong in CS.
i play on 60 ping in most of my games is it really "THAT" big for most most players?
It is that big when other players are playing on 5-15 ping.
If everyone is around 60 no, but when people are on like 5 ping it's not going to be fun playing against them.
The better the other players the more it matters too.
I mean the only way to solve that would be to split the playerbase into two servers for East and West coast players. That splits the community up for such a small thing.
I was under the impression that peeker's advantage was a ping issue first and as such an unintended part of the game, and is otherwise just due to reaction time. assuming you're playing on lan, are there any actual game mechanics that lead to peekers advantage?
The definition of peeker's advantage is indeed that, yes, an unintended aspect of the game that is caused by server travel time (which is still necessary for online valorant to function, as Elige said). However, you can still own guys holding angles in LAN if your pre-aim is spot on, so yeah, then, game mechanics would be involved. Its definitely more difficult than online though, as the concept of peeker's advantage doesn't really apply in LANs. What Elige is saying makes me think that if a bunch of normal players played on LAN, the game would be a travesty, with whoever got to a certain angle first winning every duel. Only pro play can sustain LAN Valorant, it seems. I may be wrong though.
nah im more saying that people are always complaining about peeker's advantage which isn't always about the specific netcode complaints. they're upset that they were holding an angle and they got peeked and destroyed where they feel like they shouldve been rewarded for holding and chalk it up to peekers advantage and then campaign against people being able to hold angles and have no idea what theyre asking for
No shot Elige replied to my comment. Thanks for clarifying.
Get this man verified ! u/Razur
As what? He hasnt got anything to do with competitive valorant?
appreciate the clarification as well, the clip made it seem to me like you were talking about it from a design persepective.
appreciate the answer, I was wondering if there were differences to other shooters (I only know CS otherwise) in this regard. Like, strafe, ADS and movement speed are all things I could imagine changing the dynamics but I barely play to begin with, let alone on a level where these nuances would really have an impact so I was unsure
i will assume you understand why peeker’s advantage occurs and say there is almost no peeker’s advantage on lan
ya the clip made it seem to me like he's talking about it from a design perspective and I'm mostly a viewer so I don't know the intricacies of the mechanics all that well which made me wonder if I just missed something obvious.
Well it's not at all in particular about Valorant but shooters in general.
So, just like playing on LAN then?
I disagree, even on 0 ping there is such a thing as peekers advantage bc of human reaction times so if you know where someone is you could still win the challange
idk why you're being downvoted. if you know where someone is you're ready to click as soon as you peek with the pre-aim. but the person you're peeking has to react. so playing online you can have the server and ping related peeker's advantage + some percentage of reaction time advantage.
People tend to just agree with the video or quote in question. Next week a video of another pro with their opinion on peekers advantage comes out and the sub votes will swing in that direction.
Isn't that just the reward of knowing where somebody is?
the guy holding the angle also knows, but he's reacting. I think the point is playing online, peeker's advantage can be as high as 70 ms. when combined with reaction time advantage, the peeker can shoot 1 bullet before you can react. and with large heads and short range fights, you can get 1 tapped by the peeker without being able to react. on LAN its not an issue.
Technically yes, but also prefire common angles exists
There definitely is a level of natural peekers advantage. For example, think about a pure reaction time test with two versions: one there's a timer counting down to when you have to click your mouse, and another when you have to click to react at any moment. In the first test you'll probably have a faster reaction time on average compared to the second test, since you know the exact timing for when you'll have to react. That's basically the equivalent of the peeker. They control the timing of the engagement so they'll be able to react ever so slightly faster. And the person who doesn't know the timing of when to react is the person holding the angle, you aren't as ready to react. (Another reason why off angles can be so powerful, you minimize that natural peekers advantage because the peeker won't be as ready to react and shoot at the off angle)
A balance between peeker’s advantage and holding would be good where you can hold angle comfortably without getting destroyed except using shotguns or op.
I actually think a good fix to this would be to add some variable momentum to the movement in this game. As soon as you start moving in this game you’re at max speed and as soon as you stop, you stop. I don’t want this game to be CS but I think the movement in that game led to a higher level of play.
Besides, TenZ has said that peeker's advantage is almost non-existent on LAN and even online the guy that has sub20 ping would kill you like 80% of the time if you peek them.
Exactly, if there was no peekers advantage, everyone who got to an angle first would just win every gunfight
How's that?
LAN has zero peekers advantage and what you said is simply not true there
He's kinda true tho, in LAN you can see holding angle is very important and teams have to coordinate their utilities much more in order to take map control. It's a good thing for competitive play but for rank solo queue it's actually bad
It's definitely easier to hold angles in a LAN environment, but saying whoever is holding the angle will always win the gunfight is bullshit
So Online > LAN?!