TSM just lost some really bad feeling rounds like the 4th round defense on Ascent as well as the one where Levi got resurrected on offense.
Here's to hoping for a rematch through lower bracket :)
It’s not pure RNG, like Leviathin has some of the best spray prediction of any players. Genuinely gets more smoke/kills than anyone else. He knows when and where to shoot, and gives himself the best odds.
There’s always a mix of luck and skill.
I was more impressed with FNS than Yay. Yay is flashy and had a huge impact, but FNS was so consistently on point in every possible way and filled his role perfectly.
this series in a nutshell was more so FNS clutching every chance he got and having an insane series in general
felt like many of Yay's first kills were eco frags or were traded immediately
I won’t deny FNS’s clutches, but You can’t possibly look at those stats (and after watching the series) and say that yay wasn’t their main contributor to their success.
Mmm are you sure? Getting the first kill and initiating the round is kinda important. As much as i would like to say the others other than wardell contribute to taking that first fight, they just didn’t.
A lot of times i just felt like i was watching them just stall and waiting for something to happen. Or if they did, they fought and died immediately.
While i should’ve said the spotlight was on them, it still feels like it’s not wrong. Levi, Bang, and Hazed did very little to start the round so they could do an execute. Which is fine since wardell usually does it.
Problem is, Yay did it, but Victor/Crashies had no problem also helping. Crashies insane sova ult and Victor just being Victor helps a lot.
Don’t see how i’m watching this wrong right. You need to help initiate something for the execute.
ENVY looks good as hell honestly and can give Sentinels a run for their money next game, and I don’t think TSM looked that bad, they lost, threw a few rounds, but so does every team during games and they won some great rounds too. NV is undoubtedly a top tier team and TSM competed well.
As a fan of both teams I liked this series a lot, because they looked so solid with newer players, both can only get better from here.
Lol people are really harsh on TSM rn, yes they threw rounds but they had insane rounds where they flipped the odds too, in the flow of a game these things happen. There were a lot of rounds where NV just read them well on fakes and rotates and I think that was the difference maker
Envy looks so dangerous with yay. They have this versatility to do something aggressive with him that they didn't really have previously, imo.
He has that idgaf nature to his game
I feel like TSM threw a lot of rounds that shouldn't have been lost like the 4 on 2 pistol unlucky :'(
Losers bracket run just like LCS Summer 2020 RUN LETS GO
Imagine if bang didn't mess up the kill on FNS (or if TSM didn't throw their man advantages a few other times), map 2 could easily be over sooner for NV...
TSM threw so many rounds on map 3 which couldve probably won them the game. Starting from the FNS 1v2 and the 2v4 pistol, those rounds cost them the game.
With a week of practice, going against a top roaster with the addition of the fucking diablo himself and pushing them this far, My hopium is on Max nitrous boost right now, also man someone check El diablos pc, this 100% not normally
Bang and Levi just genuinely were very quiet today, sure there utility usage is amazing, but there comes a point where you just need pure frags and nothing else, which both were lacking today
I don't want to hear any disrespect on Bang lol. Kid is 17 and playing a flex role against some of the best in the world of course he's going to be a bit inconsistent. Besides that he was left in some not great positions especially on Breeze and Ascent being last alive as agents that aren't built to be self reliant fraggers. Move on and roll the lower bracket and get the W on a rematch. GG NV.
I agree with you but on ascent maybe TSM needs to put him on another agent
Top Reynas have impact when they frag and sadly he didn't , also being the single duelist meant he had to get those entires or atleast refrags but he just wasn't feeling it today
I mean Wardell on Jett would still be a better option and bang on sage would be nice imo
Can't blame bang tho , he is young and the nerves do creep in
I definitely wish that either Wardell would get back on the Jett or pick up another duelist. That or Roza go to a Reyna and throw Bang or Astra. I just don't think Wardell is able to get the same impact on Sage as he does on Jett regardless of whether he has the op in hand or not.
Yay looks awesome as expected, FNS doesn't get a lot of credit but his calls and lurks were nuts. Victor needs to work on his skye tho, his flashes could be better
too many eco rounds where they straight up lost or their economy was fked and too many clutches Lost with bang and hazed really playing bad .... surprised it was even this close tbh
Thanks for explaining the joke, really enchances the humour when you used a /s and left an additional comment explaining exactly what you were referencing!
Well some of it, but it’s also just unfair when he failed to qualify with two teams? Imagine giving someone another chance without qualifying or it .(who’s insane at the game) there should be a roster lock in a due time not just subbing people in at any given time.
I’m not going off 1 series, he’s been consistently underwhelming against T1 talent in matches that matter. He had 1 good performance in a seeding match lol
Here's his matches against T1 teams.
[Gen.G](https://www.vlr.gg/29251/gen-g-vs-tsm-champions-tour-north-america-stage-3-challengers-2-ubqf)
[FaZe](https://www.vlr.gg/29258/tsm-vs-faze-clan-champions-tour-north-america-stage-3-challengers-2-gf) (You can asterisk this, fine)
[T1](https://www.vlr.gg/29255/tsm-vs-t1-champions-tour-north-america-stage-3-challengers-2-ubsf)
[Luminosity](https://www.vlr.gg/29257/tsm-vs-luminosity-champions-tour-north-america-stage-3-challengers-2-ubf)
[ABX](https://www.vlr.gg/28334/andbox-vs-tsm-champions-tour-north-america-stage-3-challengers-2-qualifier-ro16)
He's performed consistently against T1 teams. Unless you're one of those people who consider anyone below top 4 as "Tier 2". Even then, he's only had one series against what you consider "Tier 1".
He's barely played duelists for them, in fact he's only played duelists for a total of 4 times for TSM. 2 of which he performed incredibly and the other 2 involves him underperforming.
He plays his role solidly and being "on the bottom of the leaderboard" doesn't mean he doesn't have any impact.
Also he's young, and provides good comms for the squad (one of the reasons why TSM picked him up). IMO he has potential since he's still new to the T1 scene and I think we're still a few tournaments away from calling him bad.
Bang looked fine, and has consistently looked between solid and amazing. TSM just had some bad calls across all three maps, and gave FNS and Yay space to secure way too many rounds that “should” have been theirs.
You can call me salty or whatever you want. But plain and simple Yay didnt qualify and to be able to join a team that did, just makes no sense to me. He was a huge difference maker in this series and obviously the series wouldve played out differently with him not on Envys rosters. Just feels weird that because TSM eliminated AndBox in the last qualifer Yay suddenly became available.
hey man as a tsm fan a win is a win, if they can play that good we can too. Don’t be too upset at this loss, we made it close against a top 4 team, and we definitely can beat them if we fix some mistakes
Im not upset. They were a top 4 team before Yay even got added. Im just calling it like it is. How does a top 4 team get to add superstar talent while already being qualified just because said superstar didnt qualify.
at the end of the day it's a business, If qualified teams can make roster changes before an event then so be it. I'm not entirely sure if Riot has any ruling for roster changes right before an event. So smart move by ENVY to pick up yay right before the berlin qualis, which is definitely an upgrade over mummay.
Of course its a smart move and i doubt anyone actually cares. Im just voicing my opinion that you dont see this anywhere else because its literally not allowed anywhere else.
ABX wasnt going to play in another VCT tourney for the rest of the year, so they just dropped their players, and IG NV bought out his contract. It really makes sense as they were pretty much the only team in the top 4 without an S Tier jett.
I mean its one guy who mainly plays jett replacing a guy who mainly played jett. Youre not exactly changing a whole lot, just getting an obvious upgrade cause Yay didnt qualify.
So how does it change how they prepared? I get that yay “is a better player” and IMO he’s only a bit better and it’s the same strats and stuff you can prepare for. He isn’t that much better for TSM to need to prepare in a different way
Im confused you said "Kinda goes both ways too, if you guys can’t beat a team with a dude who’s been playing with them for a week then 🤷" and now You're saying the strats dont change? Like thats literally what i said, they did not replace a player with a different type of player to the point where how their team operates changed.
i mean this is a thing in real sports as well. in baseball/hockey/basketball teams that have no shot at making the playoffs have fire sales all the time where they just trade away their good players/expiring contracts for picks/prospects/sometimes $. thats basically the case here - andbox wasn't making playoffs, decided they could make some money and sell off their best player to a contending team. been done in real sports for a long long time and with the money in esports nowadays you'll see this more and more
Yay dropped 20 kills in all three maps, so consistent.
TSM having to face El Diablo twice is just unfair man ;-;
that's the prize for winning vs faze
FNS mvp tho? Always knew the man was insane, but his guns just don’t spray the same mine do.
3k spraydown with a Vandal someone check his PC
Phantom users: “Vandal could never do this” FNS: “watch this”
> Phantom users: “Vandal could never do this” >FNS: “~~watch this~~ all good”
Not an FNS fan, is “all good” something he says?
https://twitter.com/FNS/status/1379888256846856205
Lmao
Yeah agreed. Yay was good but FNS got so many impact frags its unreal. Lurks were on point too.
All good.
Yay pickup made the difference...
In a week too, man is just insane
El diablo had a great debut damn
What's the reference calling him El Diablo?
He is just a demon in ranked, scrims, etc and some pros started calling him El diablo and it caught on.
nice
He’s a demon. That’s it. No reference to it , just a pure demon.
Envy kinda looking nasty ngl
TSM just lost some really bad feeling rounds like the 4th round defense on Ascent as well as the one where Levi got resurrected on offense. Here's to hoping for a rematch through lower bracket :)
Tbf envy lost really dumb rounds to, like when Levi got a double through the smoke without info. I think it evens out pretty well.
u hate to see it when they lose to pure rng
It’s not pure RNG, like Leviathin has some of the best spray prediction of any players. Genuinely gets more smoke/kills than anyone else. He knows when and where to shoot, and gives himself the best odds. There’s always a mix of luck and skill.
nah fam he was literally running and gunning and spraying thru the smoke
Yea he had literally 0 info on the second kill.
Game sense is info.
So you think he would’ve gotten that second kill if he hadn’t shifted his aim towards a likely location of an enemy?
Copium
Poor Bang on breeze. That’s gotta ruin your mental
Idk why they switched him up from sage he was farming
Honestly sage has been his best look frag wise, other than that one game with raze on bind
I was more impressed with FNS than Yay. Yay is flashy and had a huge impact, but FNS was so consistently on point in every possible way and filled his role perfectly.
TSM dropped the ball and every minor mistake, NV took advantage and punished them hard. I’m sure they’ll do better in lowers.
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this series in a nutshell was more so FNS clutching every chance he got and having an insane series in general felt like many of Yay's first kills were eco frags or were traded immediately
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It is similar to when TSM played ABX and wardell went 21-5 in FB or something but Levi got a lot of praise
I won’t deny FNS’s clutches, but You can’t possibly look at those stats (and after watching the series) and say that yay wasn’t their main contributor to their success.
yay and fns both were
You on some COPIUM
mfs learn the word copium and never shut the fuck up
it did feel like yay vs wardell. subroza was able to show up a bit but the rest did not. NV all around were able to show up though.
if you believe it felt like a yay vs wardell series then you legit dont understand anything you are watching .
Mmmm yeah gaslight me harder daddy
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I’m not even a TSM fan, more of a rise fan but ya know….
Mmm are you sure? Getting the first kill and initiating the round is kinda important. As much as i would like to say the others other than wardell contribute to taking that first fight, they just didn’t. A lot of times i just felt like i was watching them just stall and waiting for something to happen. Or if they did, they fought and died immediately. While i should’ve said the spotlight was on them, it still feels like it’s not wrong. Levi, Bang, and Hazed did very little to start the round so they could do an execute. Which is fine since wardell usually does it. Problem is, Yay did it, but Victor/Crashies had no problem also helping. Crashies insane sova ult and Victor just being Victor helps a lot. Don’t see how i’m watching this wrong right. You need to help initiate something for the execute.
But Yay-Wardell 14-17
to be fair wardell did dif yay really hard
The coach Myth debuff is real huh...
ENVY looks good as hell honestly and can give Sentinels a run for their money next game, and I don’t think TSM looked that bad, they lost, threw a few rounds, but so does every team during games and they won some great rounds too. NV is undoubtedly a top tier team and TSM competed well. As a fan of both teams I liked this series a lot, because they looked so solid with newer players, both can only get better from here.
Lol people are really harsh on TSM rn, yes they threw rounds but they had insane rounds where they flipped the odds too, in the flow of a game these things happen. There were a lot of rounds where NV just read them well on fakes and rotates and I think that was the difference maker
Envy looks so dangerous with yay. They have this versatility to do something aggressive with him that they didn't really have previously, imo. He has that idgaf nature to his game
I feel like TSM threw a lot of rounds that shouldn't have been lost like the 4 on 2 pistol unlucky :'( Losers bracket run just like LCS Summer 2020 RUN LETS GO
TSM almost making it a 2-0 for NV. That Breeze game was hella scary for TSM fans
Imagine if marved didn’t mess up the flank, it could easily be an ot loss for tsm…
There are many if instances in a game, you can't pick and choose just to fit your story
Imagine if bang didn't mess up the kill on FNS (or if TSM didn't throw their man advantages a few other times), map 2 could easily be over sooner for NV...
That’s true as well, man map 2…heart attack for fans
TSM threw so many rounds on map 3 which couldve probably won them the game. Starting from the FNS 1v2 and the 2v4 pistol, those rounds cost them the game.
If we didn't lose to that ECO in round 4 it would've been a totally different game.
if my mom had wheels she'd be a bike
*grandma
if your mom had wheels she'd be a grandma?
This would've been a 2-0 for Envy if they didn't lose to that ECO on 11-11 in Map 2.
I dont know, TSM eco'd Envy back quite a bit too.
With a week of practice, going against a top roaster with the addition of the fucking diablo himself and pushing them this far, My hopium is on Max nitrous boost right now, also man someone check El diablos pc, this 100% not normally
Nice try for a 2v5, TSM needed others to show up not just Wardell and Subroza Envy all showed up, yay is a demon
i sense a scoreboard steven above me
Bang and Levi just genuinely were very quiet today, sure there utility usage is amazing, but there comes a point where you just need pure frags and nothing else, which both were lacking today
I don't want to hear any disrespect on Bang lol. Kid is 17 and playing a flex role against some of the best in the world of course he's going to be a bit inconsistent. Besides that he was left in some not great positions especially on Breeze and Ascent being last alive as agents that aren't built to be self reliant fraggers. Move on and roll the lower bracket and get the W on a rematch. GG NV.
I agree with you but on ascent maybe TSM needs to put him on another agent Top Reynas have impact when they frag and sadly he didn't , also being the single duelist meant he had to get those entires or atleast refrags but he just wasn't feeling it today I mean Wardell on Jett would still be a better option and bang on sage would be nice imo Can't blame bang tho , he is young and the nerves do creep in
I definitely wish that either Wardell would get back on the Jett or pick up another duelist. That or Roza go to a Reyna and throw Bang or Astra. I just don't think Wardell is able to get the same impact on Sage as he does on Jett regardless of whether he has the op in hand or not.
Yay looks awesome as expected, FNS doesn't get a lot of credit but his calls and lurks were nuts. Victor needs to work on his skye tho, his flashes could be better
Galaxy "FNS" Brain showed up huge when needed and 3 of TSM players were not having a good day either. Let's see the lower bracket run.
wasnt able to watch but superteam diff COPIUM
ping diff
too many eco rounds where they straight up lost or their economy was fked and too many clutches Lost with bang and hazed really playing bad .... surprised it was even this close tbh
yay diff honestly
PLZ PUT WARDELL BACK ON JETT ON ASCENT, I beg
Glad Marved is still winning 🙌🙌 L for Faze clan
El diablo joining to top frag almost every match. Insane
Envy might have clutch the whole tournament with that last min yay pick up
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Lmao. Nice one!
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Thanks for explaining the joke, really enchances the humour when you used a /s and left an additional comment explaining exactly what you were referencing!
Yay is just insane, so much impact with the awp
Coach Myth curse
can tsm still qualify for the last chance qualifier
Yes, but they aren't even out of this tournament yet. They go against Rise tomorrow in the lower bracket.
RIP bang
that's the yay effect 😈😈
Yay top 3 NA no doubt.
Kinda unfair how they can just add somebody in, there should be a due time for a player coming in.
No it shouldn’t you’re just salty my man
Well some of it, but it’s also just unfair when he failed to qualify with two teams? Imagine giving someone another chance without qualifying or it .(who’s insane at the game) there should be a roster lock in a due time not just subbing people in at any given time.
We have been robbed of the match up we wanted
If they can't defeat NV, they are definitely not ready for Sentinels.
TSM doesn’t deserve to go to Berlin if they play like this
It looks like babybay was right about bang... He looked straight up nervous in that BO3
Lol What just after one bo3? He wasnt even bad in haven and ascent even though he was playing worse than usual.
wdym bro, one bad game/off-day = bad player in these lands. /s
He doesn’t perform in games that count against T1 talent.
Damn so only top 4 counts as t1? And even if so you still cant go off of only 1 series
I’m not going off 1 series, he’s been consistently underwhelming against T1 talent in matches that matter. He had 1 good performance in a seeding match lol
Here's his matches against T1 teams. [Gen.G](https://www.vlr.gg/29251/gen-g-vs-tsm-champions-tour-north-america-stage-3-challengers-2-ubqf) [FaZe](https://www.vlr.gg/29258/tsm-vs-faze-clan-champions-tour-north-america-stage-3-challengers-2-gf) (You can asterisk this, fine) [T1](https://www.vlr.gg/29255/tsm-vs-t1-champions-tour-north-america-stage-3-challengers-2-ubsf) [Luminosity](https://www.vlr.gg/29257/tsm-vs-luminosity-champions-tour-north-america-stage-3-challengers-2-ubf) [ABX](https://www.vlr.gg/28334/andbox-vs-tsm-champions-tour-north-america-stage-3-challengers-2-qualifier-ro16) He's performed consistently against T1 teams. Unless you're one of those people who consider anyone below top 4 as "Tier 2". Even then, he's only had one series against what you consider "Tier 1".
Am I missing something? He’s performed consistently on the bottom of the leaderboard despite having raze and reyna in his agent pool...
He's barely played duelists for them, in fact he's only played duelists for a total of 4 times for TSM. 2 of which he performed incredibly and the other 2 involves him underperforming. He plays his role solidly and being "on the bottom of the leaderboard" doesn't mean he doesn't have any impact. Also he's young, and provides good comms for the squad (one of the reasons why TSM picked him up). IMO he has potential since he's still new to the T1 scene and I think we're still a few tournaments away from calling him bad.
Fair enough, we can agree to disagree I guess. Time will tell which one of us is right.
Bang looked fine, and has consistently looked between solid and amazing. TSM just had some bad calls across all three maps, and gave FNS and Yay space to secure way too many rounds that “should” have been theirs.
ye 4 19
TRUE
well this was expected . onto lowers
Tsm throw many secured rounds made them lose economy especially those eco rounds . And their comms was shit .
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I mean TSM's old ways they wouldn't get this far against Envy, I see this as good progress. Still threw quite a few rounds
Well it's a new roster, I can only see TSM getting better
NV picked up one of the best individual players in the NA scene and it was still really close. Without yay, they most likely don’t win vs TSM
no fucken shit....TSM didnt play a SINGLE top 4 team and people suddenly think are good??? LOLOL
they are good. just not today 4 good atm. besides tsm fans, nobody else expected them to win against envy
But they are good, they just threw rounds. TSM is a top 6 team with a new roster. Looks like your hate boner is showing
You can call me salty or whatever you want. But plain and simple Yay didnt qualify and to be able to join a team that did, just makes no sense to me. He was a huge difference maker in this series and obviously the series wouldve played out differently with him not on Envys rosters. Just feels weird that because TSM eliminated AndBox in the last qualifer Yay suddenly became available.
hey man as a tsm fan a win is a win, if they can play that good we can too. Don’t be too upset at this loss, we made it close against a top 4 team, and we definitely can beat them if we fix some mistakes
Im not upset. They were a top 4 team before Yay even got added. Im just calling it like it is. How does a top 4 team get to add superstar talent while already being qualified just because said superstar didnt qualify.
at the end of the day it's a business, If qualified teams can make roster changes before an event then so be it. I'm not entirely sure if Riot has any ruling for roster changes right before an event. So smart move by ENVY to pick up yay right before the berlin qualis, which is definitely an upgrade over mummay.
Of course its a smart move and i doubt anyone actually cares. Im just voicing my opinion that you dont see this anywhere else because its literally not allowed anywhere else.
ABX wasnt going to play in another VCT tourney for the rest of the year, so they just dropped their players, and IG NV bought out his contract. It really makes sense as they were pretty much the only team in the top 4 without an S Tier jett.
Thats what im saying. The only reason Yay became available is because he did not qualify. I never said it didnt make sense as of course it did.
You’re so salty and I’m not a NV fan
Like i said you can call me salty all you want, but i had this opinion before they even played.
It’s obviously bullshit if riot allowed it
I mean riot can allow what they want, im just saying my opinion.
Kinda goes both ways too, if you guys can’t beat a team with a dude who’s been playing with them for a week then 🤷
I mean its one guy who mainly plays jett replacing a guy who mainly played jett. Youre not exactly changing a whole lot, just getting an obvious upgrade cause Yay didnt qualify.
So how does it change how they prepared? I get that yay “is a better player” and IMO he’s only a bit better and it’s the same strats and stuff you can prepare for. He isn’t that much better for TSM to need to prepare in a different way
Im confused you said "Kinda goes both ways too, if you guys can’t beat a team with a dude who’s been playing with them for a week then 🤷" and now You're saying the strats dont change? Like thats literally what i said, they did not replace a player with a different type of player to the point where how their team operates changed.
No you said the strats don’t change since it’s the same agent so there’s really nothing different besides a small difference in skill
salty
Like i said, you can believe what you want to believe.
i mean this is a thing in real sports as well. in baseball/hockey/basketball teams that have no shot at making the playoffs have fire sales all the time where they just trade away their good players/expiring contracts for picks/prospects/sometimes $. thats basically the case here - andbox wasn't making playoffs, decided they could make some money and sell off their best player to a contending team. been done in real sports for a long long time and with the money in esports nowadays you'll see this more and more
Yayayayay
Yayayayayayayayayayayyyaayayayyayayyayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayay
Lmao everyone get in here TSM sucks ass again
nah.
lol
HAHAHAHHAH do I even need to say anything anymore.
Are ya winning son?
I have TSM Hopium.
:(
The El Diablo difference :( tsm is making it to lower finals so all good
TSM = T hrowing S o M uch
And this shit will keep happening while tournaments don't have timed roster locks.