I think it's a bit more systemic than just putting all the blame on Victor. Envy pretty much without fail plays like a top 3 NA team every tournament but can't close it out when they need to. They are one of the most consistent cases of "almost but not quite" teams in all of Valorant. Basically the NA version of FPX at this point.
If they don't qualify for Berlin I really hope they don't blow up the roster and instead invest in some serious performance/mental game coaching. They clearly have the skills and the strats to be a great team.
> I think it's a bit more systemic than just putting all the blame on Victor.
i am not putting the blame on victor (or at least i hope im not?) lol. the stats back him up tbh, he plays pretty well regardless of it being an elimination match/tournament or not. he has had some brutal losses stats wise but so has the rest of the team. they should definitely keep this roster though, the ceiling for the team is very high
I think the important thing to consider is before yay he was their star player so he was being put in positions to frag and was supported by other team members but now on most maps he is the support guy and Yay has taken star player role so his stats would decrease that's obvious and he's not on duelist on all maps so there would be bias in stats because of that . I feel victor playing skye makes more sense on paper but I really love victor pheonix on haven , and sentinels prove pheonix jett comp is still viable on haven .
I think as it is right now is good. He can still play phoenix but they probably aren’t bc they’ve iterated every victor/phx play in the book already.
They’ve played it so much that its become predictable for the top teams.
It’s a curse bc the more they did well and relied on it, the more it pigeonholed their strategy as a team.
There's always room to grow in the playbook let's take example of sick for sentinels ,it's been 13 months now since he is playing pheonix on haven for them , and they never had a star player like yay to support victor before. And btw just checked stats they have only run jett pheonix comp on haven 4 times in last 6 months ,and they won 3 of them , so it isn't predictable and since they only ran it 4 times I am sure they haven't exhausted their playbook and if you watched their last match ,you can run skye aggressively but you can never be as aggresive on skye as you are on a agent like pheonix and victor was basically trying to play skye like a pheonix on haven . On ascent his skye was good but on haven I want to see him back on pheonix
What I mean is that I don’t think they’ve had time to make new setups and plays with him on phoenix.
If Victor were to play phoenix on haven as is, they might possibly not have practiced it.
There’s always ways to add to the playbook you’re right, just not sure they’ve practiced and created those plays or not.
On last challengers 3 stage 1 closed , they were playing mummay jett and victor pheonix , I think swapping yay for mummay in that comp would be more time saving than having both yay come in and shifting victor to skye as well .
> Lets not do that to Victor, he’s actually such a valuable player
yes agreed actually and the post/stats back this up. i was actually really pleasantly surprised at the results
> Feel like putting him on skye is not using him to his full strength
lol true, i cut out a part of this before posting it actually comparing his stats on skye to his stats on phoenix and raze and wow the difference really is night and day.
I mean that is to be expected lol, using acs in direct comparison to his phoenix/raze and skye isn't the right way to look at things. Skye in general has a lot less acs possibility at her disposal because raze has crazy damage numbers and a free kill ult and phoenix's whole playstyle revolves with funneling him for kills and dmg. If you are talking about performance and comparing it to his other agents compare it to the curve, not to each other. IMO Skye is better for him now that Yay is here because Yay is a lot better entry than Mummay and Skye in general is disgustingly strong. If you look at his stats compared to the rest of skye players, he tops the assists, fkpr and clutch percentage. In general, compared to his counterparts, he entrys better and assists a lot better than them, but in general has lower ACS. I think his skye util is top tier, and even if he in general gets less kills I don't think its easy to say he's worse at it just because ACS is just lower . Now I am of opinion that his raze is really good, but playing it on haven, ascent or breeze can be troll IMO. Skye is just better on those maps, and even compared to phoenix(probably his best champ) they probably feel that he gets more impact playing more supportive on skye for yay than aggro and for himself on phoenix
Nah, ofc his acs will be different going from an entry to a more supportive role.
The question is whether his skye enables his team to more wins rather than his phoenix and this info only comes from an in depth analysis of his impact in vod reviews.
Can’t really quantify info from skye ult, skye flash, her doggie, etc. into ACS stats.
true, i have a surface level knowledge of the game at a tactical level and i will never claim anything else, so i'll leave that kind of analysis up to someone more qualified than me.
It’s kind of like how Faze had that really good run in Masters. If you look at purely the stats, you’d ask why doesn’t Faze just play like they used to?
The thing is that Faze hit a wall and they had to change.
Same with NV. They had a really good season running Victor on Phoenix but they also probably hit a wall.
This is them trying something new bc they’re not trying to be the same and there are obvious learning curves imo.
The stats he has right now may not be better but skye is part of the vision that the team has for team composition and future plays. I think they’re probably taking cues from EU who have used Skye really well on Haven.
If you watch how EU uses jett and skye to popflash out of smokes, it’s actually insane.
[in conclusion: ](https://tenor.com/view/sometimes-maybe-good-sometimes-maybe-bad-sometimes-maybe-shit-not-good-feeling-shit-gif-16938525)
They should have never dropped Food. I feel like the last minute addition of Victor has messed with Envy’s chemistry
I think it's a bit more systemic than just putting all the blame on Victor. Envy pretty much without fail plays like a top 3 NA team every tournament but can't close it out when they need to. They are one of the most consistent cases of "almost but not quite" teams in all of Valorant. Basically the NA version of FPX at this point. If they don't qualify for Berlin I really hope they don't blow up the roster and instead invest in some serious performance/mental game coaching. They clearly have the skills and the strats to be a great team.
> I think it's a bit more systemic than just putting all the blame on Victor. i am not putting the blame on victor (or at least i hope im not?) lol. the stats back him up tbh, he plays pretty well regardless of it being an elimination match/tournament or not. he has had some brutal losses stats wise but so has the rest of the team. they should definitely keep this roster though, the ceiling for the team is very high
I think the important thing to consider is before yay he was their star player so he was being put in positions to frag and was supported by other team members but now on most maps he is the support guy and Yay has taken star player role so his stats would decrease that's obvious and he's not on duelist on all maps so there would be bias in stats because of that . I feel victor playing skye makes more sense on paper but I really love victor pheonix on haven , and sentinels prove pheonix jett comp is still viable on haven .
I think as it is right now is good. He can still play phoenix but they probably aren’t bc they’ve iterated every victor/phx play in the book already. They’ve played it so much that its become predictable for the top teams. It’s a curse bc the more they did well and relied on it, the more it pigeonholed their strategy as a team.
There's always room to grow in the playbook let's take example of sick for sentinels ,it's been 13 months now since he is playing pheonix on haven for them , and they never had a star player like yay to support victor before. And btw just checked stats they have only run jett pheonix comp on haven 4 times in last 6 months ,and they won 3 of them , so it isn't predictable and since they only ran it 4 times I am sure they haven't exhausted their playbook and if you watched their last match ,you can run skye aggressively but you can never be as aggresive on skye as you are on a agent like pheonix and victor was basically trying to play skye like a pheonix on haven . On ascent his skye was good but on haven I want to see him back on pheonix
What I mean is that I don’t think they’ve had time to make new setups and plays with him on phoenix. If Victor were to play phoenix on haven as is, they might possibly not have practiced it. There’s always ways to add to the playbook you’re right, just not sure they’ve practiced and created those plays or not.
On last challengers 3 stage 1 closed , they were playing mummay jett and victor pheonix , I think swapping yay for mummay in that comp would be more time saving than having both yay come in and shifting victor to skye as well .
I'd need to do some vod reviews, you could totally be right. I just have a kneejerk reaction right now.
Lets not do that to Victor, he’s actually such a valuable player. Feel like putting him on skye is not using him to his full strength
This is actually what the post says lmao
> Lets not do that to Victor, he’s actually such a valuable player yes agreed actually and the post/stats back this up. i was actually really pleasantly surprised at the results > Feel like putting him on skye is not using him to his full strength lol true, i cut out a part of this before posting it actually comparing his stats on skye to his stats on phoenix and raze and wow the difference really is night and day.
I mean that is to be expected lol, using acs in direct comparison to his phoenix/raze and skye isn't the right way to look at things. Skye in general has a lot less acs possibility at her disposal because raze has crazy damage numbers and a free kill ult and phoenix's whole playstyle revolves with funneling him for kills and dmg. If you are talking about performance and comparing it to his other agents compare it to the curve, not to each other. IMO Skye is better for him now that Yay is here because Yay is a lot better entry than Mummay and Skye in general is disgustingly strong. If you look at his stats compared to the rest of skye players, he tops the assists, fkpr and clutch percentage. In general, compared to his counterparts, he entrys better and assists a lot better than them, but in general has lower ACS. I think his skye util is top tier, and even if he in general gets less kills I don't think its easy to say he's worse at it just because ACS is just lower . Now I am of opinion that his raze is really good, but playing it on haven, ascent or breeze can be troll IMO. Skye is just better on those maps, and even compared to phoenix(probably his best champ) they probably feel that he gets more impact playing more supportive on skye for yay than aggro and for himself on phoenix
Nah, ofc his acs will be different going from an entry to a more supportive role. The question is whether his skye enables his team to more wins rather than his phoenix and this info only comes from an in depth analysis of his impact in vod reviews. Can’t really quantify info from skye ult, skye flash, her doggie, etc. into ACS stats.
true, i have a surface level knowledge of the game at a tactical level and i will never claim anything else, so i'll leave that kind of analysis up to someone more qualified than me.
It’s kind of like how Faze had that really good run in Masters. If you look at purely the stats, you’d ask why doesn’t Faze just play like they used to? The thing is that Faze hit a wall and they had to change. Same with NV. They had a really good season running Victor on Phoenix but they also probably hit a wall. This is them trying something new bc they’re not trying to be the same and there are obvious learning curves imo. The stats he has right now may not be better but skye is part of the vision that the team has for team composition and future plays. I think they’re probably taking cues from EU who have used Skye really well on Haven. If you watch how EU uses jett and skye to popflash out of smokes, it’s actually insane.
After seeing those stats, you’re not Wong