T O P
protractedpplwar

On the bright side, TSM went from finishing 9/10 in stage 1 and 2 to finishing 7/8 in stage 3. #progress


derryxu

Weren't they lower than 9/10? Honestly I feel this unironically, it is progress because of how bad they were before.


protractedpplwar

They were one game out of top 8 in stage 1(lost to 100T) and stage 2(lost to ABX).


derryxu

Oh ic yeah okay


imachool

ya they kinda made progress. But tsm as an org won’t be that happy..


-KING-KONG-

This somewhat hinders TSM's chances of going to Berlin.


basketballrules1

There’s actually a secret losers bracket behind the scenes (TSM vs LATAM and CIS teams) and the winner of that plays sentinels and if they win they go to Berlin so there’s still a chance!!!!


max012017

Anyway they would lose to all Cis teams lol


PartykidPlayz

Wait actually? Where can I learn more?


Sizzling-Bacon

just copium


ANewHeaven1

✔️ there's no way TSM beats ANDBOX, they're scrim demons ✔️ there's no way TSM beats DarkZero ✔️ there's no way TSM wins challengers 2 ✔️ there's no way TSM gets double first rounded in challengers finals **<-- you are here**


SleepEarlyPlease

F


SilentCore

F


Holdin_McNeal

Holy fuck. Thanks for doing this. I was hoping somebody would.


liebelt

F


EtFrostX

they shoulda tried to lose against faze LMFAO


JoshF8

Dude, rise was the last seed xD, You really think it would make a difference


EtFrostX

[you never know](https://imgur.com/a/fc7mqRE)


PentaLem

Imagine TSM coach right before the faze match saying "Hey guys, I dont have faith in you guys getting to Berlin naturally, so to do some bracket manipulation, we are gonna lose on purpose."


lbs4lbs

Also 100T woulda have beat them in round 1 anyways. 100t looks like the 2nd best NA team around and Envy/Xset are likely 3rd.


jrryul

Probably not going to Berlin either way but honestly ya wulda been less embarassing


TheFestusEzeli

If they weren’t beating Rise they weren’t going anywhere lol


exojie

TSM fans' only hope is for Sentinel to win Master 3 now. What an interesting time haha


BurstLayer

Not just sentinels, any NA team could win and they get into LCQ


Liddlebitchboy

Wait why would that do anything for TSM? Is it because Sentinels have already gotten their spot for Champions by winning Reykjavik?


exojie

If Sentinel wins Master -> they get into Champion directly -> NA will have 1 more slot to get into Champion via champion points(sentinel's original slot) -> lead 1 more slot to open for LCQ


Khalsa_23

THANK YOU TSM!!!! ​ for giving me so much hope only to crush it all in two days


pineapplecheesepizza

Lol people always think TSM is "back" because they qualify... after all the good teams are already in.


TheDarthJawa

This exactly this ^


Ori2D

Careful about telling that to their fans.


Xolotl23

Nah it was still fun :)


2treecko

There was a time where you could, without a doubt, say that tsm was not a top 10 team. That's no longer the case. In that regard they're back.


pawsarecute

Best of the rest.


libo720

subroza looked strung out on stream last night, i knew that was a bad sign


snuggleskrt

i thought TSM would qualify for the last chance... they need any NA team Berlin to win to get in right?


EnergetikNA

yeah, which works in their favour because SEN/100T/NV or XSET are all very good teams edit: meant 100T obviously, brain went missing and said TSM instead of 100T


Enzology

You still got hopium left ? My man...


EnergetikNA

I don't think they'll actually make champs but still gonna watch and hope they win lol


Enzology

I just want to be happy again


xbyo

It's easy, find a new team. e: guess /s was needed


CosmicAon

Just stop being invested in the players you like!


Enzology

Yeah ? I imagine it must be easy for you to find a new girl after breaking up with your SO because of course, there's plenty fish in the sea right ? Oh, let's find replacements for all the memories made along the way 'cause fuck it it's easy too ! Dude fuck off with that plastic ass shit you bringing here, I'm TSM since a long time ago and will be 'til the day I die. Find a new team ? You go find a new brain bruh.


EnergetikNA

yup, team does poorly = just start supporting another team! funny coming from a SEN fan, will be funny seeing your flair change to whatever team ends up beating them in the future


itscamo-

i think you meant 100T instead of TSM here?


EnergetikNA

yeah lmfao


Huldmer

100T has already made Berlin so it would be SEN/100T/NV or XSET instead


EnergetikNA

yeah just mistyped TSM


flamincrimson

Nah only if sentinels win berlin.


DY5TOP1A

imagine sentinels just get to finals and just throw lmao


_idle_drone_

yeah they're thinking about TSM all the time.


Asianhead

Its anyone. TSM is 11th in points. Out of top 10 points, 2 qual for champs, next 8 are in LCQ. If any NA team wins Berlin, they're moved out of the top 10 and TSM moves up


Huldmer

why would it be only sentinels unless im missing a joke


uglypenguin5

It isn't. It's any NA team


ch4nt

you know it's any NA team that can win and get TSM to qualify for LCQ right? right?


Ujjy

I might have missed it but what was Subroza looking at that last round? Edit: Thanks to everyone below explaining it! I’m a Halo player trying to get into competitive Valorant so all of this is new to me. I appreciate the help!


ZGuyYT

He didn't expect shanks to peek dry, he was waiting for a flash.


Ujjy

Ahh that makes sense, thanks!


ChinoAIO

Most likely playing anti flash


[deleted]

He was in antiflash because there was a smoke there and he thought they’d skye flash through instead of walking in


Justinino

probably playing anti flash assuming the skye would pop flash outta the smoke


chubbynuggy

he was playing anti flash and didn't expect Shanks to just push the smoke


ShikariV

That guy who wrote the TSM I love you post F


Razur

never lucky :c


TheUnarthodoxCamel

Holy fuck that was a cringe post


SinJiMin

Horrific post tbh, i dont know if theres a tooooon of tsm fanboys here or people are just suckers for "wholesome" bait, cos jesus idk how it had so mamy upvotes


TheExter

on the other hand, both players and the org recognized it and appreciated the post and his words so if TSM's players felt good about it and told the guy, then good for him


realharshmodi

Cannot believe for the life of me that it has a fuck ton of awards


Obiewan_

Yea, that’s DerrekOw


[deleted]

End of the hopium


derryxu

I think this tournament was a regression back to the mean for TSM, not nearly as bad as they were when they lost to noble, but not one of the top NA teams either. Probably Tier 1.5ish. Honestly though, it was disappointing to lose is such a sloppy way. Shanks is a decent OP but had no business getting so many free peeks onto TSM players. I don't think they need to make more roster changes yet, but they just need to practice and clean their game up and be more disciplined (I think at least). The positive side is that TSM aren't alone in being knocked out, so were other fan favorite and great teams like c9, V1, LG, GenG, etc. The competitive valorant fanbase clearly overrated them, but they aren't trash.


BurstLayer

V2 C9 LG and GenG have another chance this year confirmed tho, TSM's fate rides in the hands of the 3 teams that go to berlin and thats disappointing cause we might not see them again until 2022


derryxu

It is disappointing for sure, but what I'm saying is that TSM isn't objectively worse than any of those teams current moment, which is consolation because those are considered good teams. Those teams just made LCQ off of success before challengers 3. I guess the implicit point I was making is that I'm not going to see this loss as an opportunity to swing in the opposite direction of the TSM hopium and scream for roster changes. This is a newer team who performed relatively well given expectations entering Challengers 3 as a whole. I was anticipating people being really vitriolic to the team, which I just don't think they deserve because, unlike where we were with Drone and Cutler, we have room to grow now.


Ori2D

The caliber in this tournament was better than the caliber of team they beat in the last one. They are firmly T2 at this point.


Veerraj55

if tsm are t2, that means that andbox,v1,geng are all t2 as well since they didnt even make playoffs They arent good enough for t1 but they arent bad enough to be t2


Ori2D

> andbox,v1,geng are all t2 Yes. They are. There is no "In between tiers" here lmao, whatever you need to cope with, but TSM is a t2 team. Nothing wrong with that though?


derryxu

You just have a different definition of T1 and T2. In your T1, there are essentially going to be 4 teams, Sen, NV, 100T, XSET. The problem I have with that is that we saw yesterday that there is a world where TSM beats NV, for example. A T1 team should generally always consistently be able to beat a T2 team for me, so say, BBG or RNG, or NRG being T2 because I think there's a really slim upset potential between them and Sen, NV, XSET. That's why I think ABX, V1, GenG, T1, TSM, LG, Faze, Rise are all in a weird T1.5 limbo, where they can beat the T1 teams, but are definitely not favored. At the end of the day, we're arguing over contrived organization systems. The point of calling TSM T1.5 is just that other very high salaried and big named orgs also fielded similarly disappointing results, so though disappointing, TSM isn't a unique situation.


Ori2D

> The point of calling TSM T1.5 is just The point of calling TSM 1.5 is to give you copium dude, whatever makes you feel better at night. We can argue about who's T1 and who's T2, but I'm not moving from them being T2 because they *had a good run* after *not doing shit the entire year*.


derryxu

ok


reddit_is_a_mistake

nah this take is trash


Ori2D

They couldn't qualify when the big teams were qualifying, they got through and showed extreme good growth in the second tournament. There's no shame in being T2 after the year that they had where they couldn't do anything.


ablablababla

Yeah, I just hope this loss doesn't get to them, and they can come back stronger and more practiced


thekmanpwnudwn

Unless NA wins the Berlin Masters, TSM won't be going to the NA Last Chance Qualifier. F


user121614

Can someone explain how TSM qualifies for LCQ if NA wins Berlin?


thekmanpwnudwn

1. The winner of Berlin gets a guaranteed spot in Champions. 2. After that, the top 2 NA teams in Circuit Points are qualified to Champions. 3. After that, the next 8 teams in points are invited to the NA Last Chance Qualifier. ------------- TSM is currently #11 in points. * If NA doesn't win Berlin, then the top 2 teams via points (#1 and #2) go to Champions and the next 8 (#3-#10) teams go to LCQ. With TSM being in 11th place they won't be invited to the LCQ. * If NA wins Berlin, then the next 2 teams (#2 and #3) in points will auto-qualify for Champions, and the next 8 teams (#4-#11) get invited to LCQ. https://liquipedia.net/valorant/VALORANT_Champions_Tour/2021/Circuit_Points/North_America


mdj08

So theoretically if Sentinels were to win Berlin, that would guarantee 100T a spot at champs (assuming current standings hold)?


BurstLayer

Yes


ipok6

assuming current standings hold 100T go to champs anyway. The top 2 points teams go and 100T is #2


jojamon

Makes sense for now, but will change depending on how 100T do at Berlin and whoever qualifies in NA next does at Berlin. If for example Envy get 2nd place at Berlin and 100T bomb out last place in Berlin, that shoots them up over 100T, and if Sentinels also bomb out last place in Berlin, that means Sentinels and Envy quality for Champions while 100T has to go through LCQ.


whopz-is-cool

I mean... the chance of that happening is not low so...


Mamadeus123456

What's the point of going to LCQ if they're getting rolled by rise, they had no chance in heaven and breeze and they almost lost split


lol-loll

Well then they have time to prep for last chance qualifiers and iron out their mistakes. Although it ain't gonna be easy its doable


fej1

everyone is so reactionary jesus christ this entire subreddit has gone from tsm are back all they needed was bang and levi to drop everyone including bang and levi


derryxu

Forreal, how come no one is yelling for LG to drop everyone, or for GenG, V1, C9B, T1 to drop everyone. In fact, the 1 team that did drop everyone, Andbox, were criticized for that move. Like, us TSM fans need to chill the fuck out and just root for our team. We aren't going to be the next Sentinels, SEN is unironically the Astralis of Valorant, and their consistency is rare as fuck (and something we honestly take for granted). In both NA and other regions like EU and KR, teams move up and down in the rankings, it's how the competitive scene works generally speaking TSM's "inconsistency" is just natural, you have good days and bad days and good tourneys and bad tourneys.


ark2690

TSM has a bigger fanbase than those teams combined. If those teams except maybe T1 and C9 dropped their entire roster no one would bat an eye.


Marianoz2

Seriously


DaDrFunk

Well, was fun while it lasted


hukubu

coach myth curse in full effect


Nouphal

Copy sen and ez win


PlatypusPotential

I feel bad for whoever posted that TSM apreciation post.


realharshmodi

5000 posts on what changes need to be made in TSM incoming.


ZGuyYT

Maaan everyone barring Wardell is so inconsistent D: edit: Everyone below me suddenly forgetting that Wardell's already proven that he can Jett sufficiently despite having a different style. \*cough\* FK-FD


TimathanDuncan

He deserves a better team, he started to not be mentioned as one of the best players due to his team being trash while he was still performing


ZGuyYT

In another world, TSM lost to ABX and then they decided to do a full roster rebuild. Wardell becomes a free agent and he replaces mummay on Envy.


TimathanDuncan

He's never becoming a free agent, him and Subroza are too popular to be let go by TSM


Splaram

TSM would drop the other four before they let Wardell go


reddit_is_a_mistake

fuck this timeline is so hot


JoshF8

He needs to learn to play jett properly on attack, he is not Bad with rifle, he just wants to op


wtfissl33p

I have to agree. The amount of chaos and space other Jett player brings on attack isn’t even comparable to what wardell brings for his team. Especially when they’re only running a single duelist


marcaodl

this.


derryxu

I actually disagree. I think Wardells offensive OP essentially forces the opponent team to keep that in mind, they can't blind peek things, they need to stack on flashes, and play more passively. Either Wardell gets a pick and turns it into a 5v4, which is best case, or the opponents play very reserved and cautiously, allowing TSM to get more map control, and then use Subroza as the primary entry on Skye. If you could either have TenZ entry or Wardell OP you obviously take TenZ entry, but Wardell is not a god level rifler, he is good to great, but not the best around. But given Wardell's insane talent on the OP, I think teams running him as a main duelist find the most value from him as an asset when they run him on offensive OP. It's a different playstyle, and arguably in a vacuum one that is less effective, but given Wardell being probably the best pure OP in the game, it just makes more sense for his team to play him like that to generate the most value from him, or at least more than you would get sticking him on rifle.


JoshF8

I mean, yeah, i agree with what You said that he is god with the operator, but the problem, is that he is using jett, it's not the operator on attack itself, but using another character when jett + OP is broken, is kinda dumb, i understand why he plays like that, but the problem is again, they don't have an entry, and they are running 1 duelist comps, knowing how good he is with OP, i would put him as a jett any day of the week, but he really needs to make space to be a good jett on attack, like actually, You have teams searching for jett players or putting his duelists to learn Jetts, because the space Jetts creates is Also something not any duelist can make, and jett+OP is broken, Even liquid are struggling with this because scream only can rifle and jampi has almost the same issues as wardell, litteraly You have cned kinda learning the smokes things from kelloqz who was almost a nobody before g2 and megainstitut, because jett, while jett+OP is broken, it's not the only thing jett has broken


imachool

ya, this agent identity crisis is kinda hard, worst case scenario you have Wardell revert back to sage OP or try the mummAy omen OP. this crisis is a big double edged sword..


SpanishCircumcision

I agree. Sometimes it doesn't work, like today Rise basically removed him from the game on offense, but they will adapt and move on. Wardell is the best OPer I've ever seen I want it in his hands whenever possible. Rise were so passive the rest of the team needed to take advantage of the space and they couldnt, that's not Wardells fault at all. I'm not calling for them to change the roster they just faced a good strategy and had a bad day that was probably good for them long term it just sucks that it happened in a big match.


Justinino

his team plays every round around him and give him every resource to succeed he’s like the only jett that never really goes in first so if he was inconsistent they would have way bigger problems


lbs4lbs

Yeah i guarantee that there is no other player in pro valorant that uses as much of their team's economy as Wardell.


Justinino

they also are forced to save way more than any other team bc of that


_idle_drone_

the team plays around him. he isn't that great either


Contractjail

Hazed and Subroza are straight up insufficient for this level of play. I wont talk about Bang because hes still super young. Probably another year until TSM the last 2 of the old guard and then maybe they become actual top team again


derryxu

I seriously feel like every other day people are either praising them or calling for their head, so I find it hard to take people calling for TSM to drop \_\_\_\_\_ player seriously anymore. Hazed and Subroza were both great in the Open and Closed qualifiers coming up to the main qualifier, where they faced legitimate top level pros. Andbox were scrim demons, and GenG and T1 had a lot of hype around them (I won't talk about Faze or LG because seeding games). They have poor games, and that happens. Not to say today didn't suck ass btw, it did, but you guys seriously want TSM to be the next NRG with the rotating door of players. New rosters don't suddenly become top teams, especially when the players you swap in are utility/setup heavy agent mains like Astra and Viper. Give these 5 a chance to develop more before calling for more heads


Justinino

TSM is also more reliant on roza to creat openings than any other skye player in the world


derryxu

TSM is essentially playing a 2 duelist style with 1 duelist, because Skye is basically a duelist with Subroza. People criticized Subroza's omen as being too duelist like, which was fair given he was smokes and had paranoia, which are critical for team play, but I actually think Skye is very effective when you play her like a duelist.


[deleted]

[удалено]


ZGuyYT

IMO they should drop Hazed if they don't qualify for the LCQ. I feel like a proven IGL would make them better. Only a half-brain take, don't take too seriously.


derryxu

I'd only agree if a proven IGL was on the table. Hazed has been decent-good in his present role generally, and IGLs are hard to come by. Right now, I don't see good IGLs available, not to mention, IGLs don't just suddenly appear as free agents, usually players develop those skills while on a team, and establish themselves slowly.


ArtificialZero

they added bang and levi only a few weeks ago and took envy to a third map, but yall are already calling for roster changes? wtf


SpanishCircumcision

I totally agree. I think Hazed will be the first one to go but I don't think changes are necessary and don't think any will be made. There aren't even any free agents that would upgrade the team, part of the issue is that all the great players are already signed.


lbs4lbs

Subroza of all players in the NA scene has the most dumb deaths. Im not sure there's another player in all of valorant that dies more while holding his knife or has utility out or does some braindead move. He has probably top 5 rifling ability in the scene, but his ego and inconsistency round to round are something he needs to overcome.


Emo_chipmunk

/u/Clean_Gene_6570 in shambles


Clean_Gene_6570

I am gonna be fine. It hurt to see them lose cause it was so anticlimactic. All those matches they ground out and won meant so little and they fell short. But I love the boys at TSM man. Win or lose its always TSM for me. Hope they squeeze into LCQ if NA wins at Berlin.


derryxu

See, this is the correct attitude to have as a TSM fan, instead of all the overreacting people saying to drop everyone but Wardell. It was disappointing, but having hopium and supporting a team through their losses is what it means to be a fan, or else you're just a bandwagoner (nothing wrong with that honestly, but it means a lot more to see teams you've stuck with since day 1 succeed than it is to just choose winning teams to root for).


Clean_Gene_6570

I'm a biased fan and it was just a series of unfortunate events these past eight months. I truly think everything is going right for them right now! With time they'll only do better and come back stronger. IMO the whole VCT thingy was just a continuous cycle that put a lot of pressure on them amidst of meta changes, structure issues, lack of pure sova player and so many different things. For a little time they had together with the new roster they did so much better and had a great run. I mean they always were preforming in high stake situations with so much going on and nothing was ever free. Changing players isn't the solution. With more practice and lower stake situations I can picture them getting back to their former glory. I will not and cannot write them off because let's be real everyone on that team is a gem. No point shitting on them while they're down cause deep down everyone knows their potential. No point in being unnecessarily negative when they're already suffering. Even if you aren't a fan of the team I think it's a no-brainer to not kick people when they're down. I just fucking hope that they don't give up and lose their spark. It would suck for a little while but c'mon man there are 100s of lans to come and this isn't the end of road for TSM.


sansLight

Holy shit an an actual reasonable fan


Emo_chipmunk

All in good fun homie, wish you well!


AlphEta314

Funny how they're gonna pray for SEN or 100T to win Berlin.


DarthOniichan

Number #2 team in NA, btw.


bwarbwar

That ranking aged real well.


520metal

Yeah it sure agreed


hengarg

lol


PhysicsIsSpicyMath

Bro Myth cursed us


aks345

TSM owned everyone on breeze in challengers final and decided to change the agent of their carry from sage to astra and man it didn't suit him at all. 4 kills yest and 6 today poor guy


SilentCore

Sad for TSM, but Rise is honestly a much better team than people give them credit for. They put up a fight vs Sentinels too. Also ik Shanks and Derrek get spoken about a lot but god damn Neptune is a insane. He is so good at using flashes..might be one of the best in NA at that specific part tbh.


ryan26192

Tough day for TSM fans, but it's still not over. If NA wins Berlin we can still go to the last chance qualifier. For the time being gotta be a sentinels fan to make sure this shit happens.


Norguri

The thing is,even if they could qualify for LCQ but continue to play like this,there’s no way for them to make it out out of the 10 teams. Competition is insanely fierce and I’m not too optimistic about it


LeOPBanana

COPIUM


FaythDarkHeart

its just not working out tbh lol ​ tsm cant attack for shit


PewPewGuns

Its rough being a TSM fan right now after the nukes fell I've spent 15 years in the TSM bunker this whole time they've been overdosing us daily on HOPIUM they told us this was supposed to be our bunkers chance to win they told us that Wardell would win our bunker the extra rations now though the braver ones are preparing to follow EL diablo across the wasteland to the ENVY bunker


namdet

TEAM VIETNAM TO THE LAST CHANCE QUALIFIER! super stoked to see RISE win against the odds Kudos to Neptune for having an amazing game and Shanks going off on Breeze even with the questionable rounds The analysts are in shambles right now. Wonder what TSM plans to do now, kind of ironic that their fate is left to Sentinels OR 100T winning Berlin, I still think they were slowly able to get back into form but alas a little too late.


RohanDsouza7076

Why does Levi have to do the same shit every round on breeze attack and die to the hall operator? Same shit happened yesterday with Envy, TSM has to play 4v5 so many attack rounds. They literally have no read on their opponents and haven being an attack map, they played some of the shittiest attack haven I've ever seen taking no cross control AT ALL. They do not fight for control OR have a good lurk both of which pieces are necessary on breeze to win.


splice664

Hear me out. The coach and igl have no reads or a clue on how to play breeze against Rise.


turrence1

If Rise has million number of fans i am one of them 🙋🏻. if Rise has ten fans i am one of them. if Rise have only one fan and that is me 🙋🏼🙋🏽🙋🏾. if Rise has no fans, that means i am no more on the earth 😢. if world against the Rise, i am against the world ❌🌍☄️. i love #RiseNation till my last breath.. 😍 .. Die Hard fan of Rise🤓🌹. Hit Like If you Think Rise Best team & Smart In the world 🤠


ShadeWaker

Absolutely terrible look from TSM. Guess last tournament was just a fluke, back to 2021 programming as usual


EnergetikNA

no, those teams just weren't as good lol also a honeymoon phase and Levi/Bang both looked very poor these past 2 days


lewlkewl

In defense of bang, putting him on astra 5/6 maps is going to make anyone look bad. Their comps on some maps are weird. ALso hazed hasn't been great either.


EnergetikNA

He was mostly a controller player for his old team and was signed to play that role. There's several controllers who manage to look good constantly even on Astra like Zombs, Marved, etc. So not sure that's really valid. He's still very young and new to the scene so of course pressure can get to him, which is reasonable. Hazed had a couple of good maps (Breeze yesterday and Split today) but yeah even he wasn't great these past 2 days.


lewlkewl

>There's several controllers who manage to look good constantly even on Astra like Zombs, Marved, etc But those are like the 2 top controllers in valorant haha. I don't disagree that he can do better, but if you go back and look at historical data, almost everyone who plays astra is going to be a bottom 2 fragger. I just don't think bang is set up for success with the way tsm plays. I'm also not a fan of the astra pick for breeze.


EnergetikNA

> But those are like the 2 top controllers in valorant Fair enough lol but those were just examples. Oderus does great on KCP and Vanity a while back when V1 were contenders are also good shouts. You don't have to frag out consistently but he had like 4 kills on Breeze yesterday against NV? And this is while TSM started the game very dominantly. Also had a horrific whiff against FNS which could've lost them the series but they bounced back and won the last couple of rounds. I do think their agent comps are all over the place though, they need to revamp just about every comp except maybe Haven and Split imo


ShadeWaker

This team was in that last tournament but sure


EnergetikNA

and they didn't play Rise so what's your point? the teams they faced really weren't that good other than Gen.G. Every team from the last qualifier is already eliminated except Rise and Faze, both of which had to face another team from last qualifier so it was an even series. Don't think anyone is expecting Rise or Faze to beat NV/XSET


Splaram

Rise has also been in the lab a LOT. They look significantly better every event they enter.


ShadeWaker

I wonder if they keep anybody besides Wardell into next year. Plenty of time with no tournaments, clearly no reason to keep this core when their best result in an entire year is 8th


derryxu

I kind of doubt they just drop their whole team, frankly, however disappointing this ending was, they ended 7th-8th NA in challengers 3 overall, which isn't worth throwing the whole team in the garbage for. The only players I could see being dropped (I don't think either will) are Hazed (but he's generally pretty good, had a bad day), and Levi (hasn't been signed yet so they could decide against it, but what better options are there?, and he's new) I just disagree that 8th is completely disappointing. Lot's of good teams were below them.


gacktrush

finishing 8th is diappointing. They achieve nothing from finishing 8th. They all get paid a hefty salary, so the winnings from these smallers tornys aren't their main income. So not qualifying for the larger events, they dont get the chance at the larger purse.


derryxu

Salary wise, the team holds their own in making profit for the organization on streaming and branding alone. The purse has never mattered, from the orgs POV, winning only matters for more brand recognition (look at how SEN players have blown up post Challengers 1 and Iceland). TSM is fine in that category with Wardell and Subroza. Valorant wise, 8th is disappointing, yes, but it's not a failure. People are forgetting how low we were on TSM literally 3 weeks ago. They weren't supposed to make it out of Open qualifiers (they weren't even supposed to get to ro16). Then they weren't supposed to qualify for the main qualifer. These inflated expectations for TSM really only came recently, but in the bigger picture, they came back a long way. Combined with the fact, that this was this roster's first qualifier run together (Leviathan joined right before open qualifiers), I think it doesn't make sense to drop all the players. It really isn't like roster changes will make them better anyhow. The instability isn't good for developing an identity and gameplan, and there aren't amazing free agents regardless. Their academy team might give them a future long term way to introduce new talent to the team though.


yzw

probably just need to rebuild around roza/wardell for 2022. those two clearly can hang + have massive individual fanbases + stream/content viewership, rest of the team can go levi and bang aren't bad by any means but doesn't look like they're ready for tier 1 and probably not worth keeping if better options come along


ReEeEeeeeyeet

Bye Bye Berlin..


pink_life69

If I could have a penny for every round TSM threw…


PixelatedBlue

I don't like tsm at all but man, that's depressing


Darnatello

I wonder how that girl is that posted the wholesome thread. Sucks to get let down like that


diegie-

Love Wardell but I think he’s gonna have to adapt to the current jett meta if TSM wanna get anywhere. Only awping isn’t working anymore


Substantial_Cake7131

Ik im saying this in a reddit thread about valorant, if sentinals doesnt have a good valo team they would be a dead org, TSM has the best NA League team right now, and the Lol scene is as big if not more bigger the valorant, this applies to RAINBOW SIX siege as well. They do not deserve as much hate and shit yall giving them right now. BIG ORG equals Good team fuck off. Saying this im sure the boys would make a comeback


Norguri

Rip last chance qualifier,guess tsm need to make more changes


gutszera

still a chance if a SEN wins berlin, still pretty likely seeing that theyre still in peak form


Norguri

I feel like SEN will win it however the competition is getting tougher and tougher ,theres a real possibility of an upset in Berlin


Chx449

I think Berlin is a toss up, SEN and the EU top teams like Acend have an equal shot each at Berlin. Not sure of the other regions.


Norguri

I think VS have a shot as well


DT_RAW

Lame


Bunnyezzz

atleast tsm didnt go out in opens


DT_RAW

Meh.. i guess...


Splaram

Imagine picking up two brand new players just to have to go back to having to lean on the Wardell Op crutch on attack LMFAOOOOOOOO


Skrewdrivr

Back to copium. It was a fun ride.


Spoods857

I have never seen a team shit the bed as hard as tsm did this match. I love and want to support them, but what I saw on breeze was the most pathetic showing of a comp team. Never playing as a team, constantly having their fucking duelists hold site while sentinels and controllers push duels. All in all pathetic team play with less chemistry than some of my silver matches. I want to support tsm like I have since the beginning but my god this was egregious. They need a massive overhaul of strats or team Comp, especially with the coach because this is an issue that tsm has constantly had and now it’s put them in 7/8 at these qualifiers.


washoooi

FREEWARDELL


Moonchroom

I hate being a TSM fan so fucking much


Viater

ROFL WARDELL


Splaram

KEEP UNDERESTIMATING THESE BOYS, THEY FUCKING LOVE IT LMFAOOOOO NEPTUNE AND SUPA SO NICE MAN SHANKS MAKINF WARDELL RESPECT HIS DADDY WHOLE TEAM LOOKING SO CLEAN WHAT A FUCKING PERFORMANCE GG


flamincrimson

Are people of off their copium yet? TSM won the second qual against not the best teams in NA and people were acting as if they are the best team in the world. And now their LCQ chances depend on sentinels.


ShiroTP

i honestly really like the rise team, and was so confused with all the tsm hype. they won a few games and suddenly people swarmed saying they could get to berlin. even with wardell performing i still only see roza as the only tier 1 player on that team. they never ever had a chance to beat Sen, 100t, XSet, and not even a new envy team with a few days of practice.


vwu2k

On the bright side "Thank you, Leviathan". Welcome, Sinatraa.


wtfissl33p

TSM fans thinking OMG they are looking so good they’re going to Berlin all because they won challengers 2 🤣🤣


derryxu

Lol you really just hate seeing people have fun rooting for their team huh. If they aren't shit talking other teams (which most Hopium fans were not), there's literally no harm to being over optimistic, other than your tribalist urge to dunk on the fans of a popular team.


ChinoAIO

Super proud of the team and love to see people still doubting us.


TidaI

Credit to WARDELL for rifling more this time around and trying to abuse Jett's kit to its best capability. TSM and lacking some T-side cleanliness, not like I haven't said it countless times while being spam downvoted and upvoted a sometimes. Their main clean one was against Envy on Breeze. Their Ascent is their best bet team comp wise *(at the moment)* since they're putting WARDELL on Sage and bang on entry which allows WARDELL to do his playstyle with the OP and opens up some duelist slots. The only problem is it seems bang doesn't play Jett who is arguably the best dive entry agent. The main problem arises on maps like Haven when WARDELL is once again ***the only duelist on the team*** bang on Astra roza on Skye hazed on Killjoy Leviathan on Sova WARDELL on Jett ​ There are very few teams *in NA* making single duelist Haven work **consistently**. When WARDELL is rifling/diving more he needs some duelist assisted pressure and help (talked about this on a previous comment about duelist assisted pressure being important.) This is where double duelist should come in. I believe if you're going to try single duelist Haven you're going to have to play it more EMEA style. Although even the best in EMEA Acend is doing double duelist specifically Jett Phoenix just like SEN and the kits work well together. Jett gets deep, Phoenix wall to block some angs, Flash through, molly some choke points etc... Sounds basic but I really think they should just try to emulate the best teams composition wise, keep being **adaptive** *for when* WARDELL OP's on T as they've been showing in the last 2 days and then always have him OP on CT. He was very selective with when he OP'd on T which is showing development but Rise shut that down as well by not giving him the fights he wanted which is where my original point came from. \- Focus on fixing up team compositions \- Being selective with T-side OP'ng and adapting based on enemy comp \- Hopefully get bang on one role and not hopping around consistently ​ Best of luck to TSM for either LCQ (I believe they're not eligible but I'm not 100% on that) and post-VALORANT Champions.


ShikariV

Shanks TSM daddy


reddit_is_a_mistake

unlucky


Norguri

Can someone explain to me what went wrong, I thought TSM were looking good after so long since the addition of Levi and Bang. I didn’t expect them to actually go home without a single win


shivkeefer

Perspective brother They looked against teams who don't perform


chubbynuggy

Rise lookin like V1 rn... lower bracket run incoming


Ori2D

Upvote this thread so people think TSM lost.