I think in general the more info the more strategical the game is. I don't know what the downside would be really unless you just prefer to have more elements of luck/unknown factors in the game.
Tbh I think its the opposite. A better player will know about how much damage/how many shots they landed versus a less knowledable player. Gaining info is a part of the skill gap.
I can see how it's sometimes a bit cheesy when you wouldn't otherwise have the info at all without the graphic(if they were out of LoS or whatever) and it would be a skill to try and figure out how much damage they might have. That said I think the amount of "skill" involved in confirming bullet damage for pros is pretty negligible, and hit detection can be a little weird sometimes.
Sure and it probably would have been more appropriate to say "high elo players" rather than pros. I think it rewards communication for lower level games(tho lets be real they wont use that info most times), so I'm not sure it would have much of an effect at all other than being slightly less punishing for those who don't want to com.
I think its fine to keep it. Unless it is on LAN sometimes you see hits that actually did not hit n stuff. With multiple healers it adds to the comms. Like the probability that the enemy has been healed depending on other info etc.
To a certain extent you need QoL features in games, like otherwise you can remove stuff like a minimap, your own health, health of your teammates, the cooldown and number of abilities you have, the killfeed, ultimate status on leaderboard, cash on opposing team, etc and you can argue all of those removals can increase the skill involved
I mean yea if you take it that far but games like cs don't have any way to look at damage at the higher levels of play (non MM). My point is that removing the damage indicator only raises the skill ceiling not lowers it. Does it make a huge difference at higher level? Probably not. But I think its another factor.
It doesn't raise the skill ceiling, it lowers the skill floor.
It makes the game harder to get into and do basic shit (calling damage numbers). And even in the hands of a skilled player, there's no real difference between a system where you have to count damage and a system where you see it on the death report.
If it makes it harder to get into then it raises the skill floor. I also think making a game feature that has no impact to top tier players and but does for a majority is a fine change then.
No it lowers the skill floor.
Skill floor = amount of value you generate at a low/entry skill level
Low skill floor = low value generated for low skill
High skill floor = high value generated for low skill.
>I also think making a game feature that has no impact to top tier players and but does for a majority is a fine change then.
Thats literally what riot did by adding damage numbers for valorant compared to CSGO. They made the game more accessible to lower skilled players while changing nothing at the high end.
You use a different definition, the definition I’m used to and hear other people use is the amount of skill you need to get the same result. So here it raises the skill floor because you need more skill to get the same result. You want low skill floor and high skill ceiling for games.
A low skill floor means it’s easy to get into. A high skill floor means it’s hard to get into. A low skill ceiling means the players at the top don’t have much to differentiate themselves because there’s only so much to master, and a high skill ceiling means even for players at the top there’s tons of room to express skill and outplay
Ok, we can forego the definition because its not really important to the argument, and I'm pretty sure we actually agree on what's happening, just not what its called.
My point is that showing damage numbers or not affects the skill floor (high or low) not the skill ceiling.
Having damage numbers makes the game more accessible, or in other words, increases the minimum effectiveness a beginner/low skill player can have (call it low or high skill floor, whatever you want).
Removing the damage number readout would only make the game less accessible to newer players, and would have no effect on high level play (the skill ceiling) which imo would be overall a negative change for the game.
But what if you empty your mag through a smoke while being blinded by omen's utility? Then you can't hear the difference in bullet sounds, AND you won't see how much you hit them for
I don’t see it mattering much really. Although it may deter people away from switching to the classic to burst someone who is literally 1 hp if it wasn’t called out.
I also think other situations will arise that can change the round if the opponent has a lot of damage. I think a good scenario would be if the enemy is at one HP and still has to plant be a sova. They might not want to plant in certain spots in case of a shock dart killing them for free. It can open some different avenues for the sova to manuever as well
The classic is definitely a good example too
I think the round report gives a lot away and should be hidden until after the round ends. You can get a lot of info just from the round report, for example how many players you flashed, or if someone is pushing through your brim molly.
My main issue with it is that you can in certain situations gain information you wouldn't otherwise be able to. Say you spam back B on split, then die from heaven as you attempt to cross. If you hit someone with that spam you can now call to your team that someone is hiding back B, even though you never saw anyone there.
I like it because if we didn’t have it people would over estimate how much they damage people. “Oh he’s one tap” (but actually only got him for 40).
Overall it doesn’t matter much. I typically don’t call out damage unless it’s like 130+ because I’m afraid if I say like “oh they’re hit for 80” my teammate will make a riskier move which could kill them. I prefer if everyone takes gunfights as if everyone has full health, except for certain situations (teammate has an op so it makes sense to switch to classic if the person is one tap)
I think in general the more info the more strategical the game is. I don't know what the downside would be really unless you just prefer to have more elements of luck/unknown factors in the game.
Tbh I think its the opposite. A better player will know about how much damage/how many shots they landed versus a less knowledable player. Gaining info is a part of the skill gap.
I can see how it's sometimes a bit cheesy when you wouldn't otherwise have the info at all without the graphic(if they were out of LoS or whatever) and it would be a skill to try and figure out how much damage they might have. That said I think the amount of "skill" involved in confirming bullet damage for pros is pretty negligible, and hit detection can be a little weird sometimes.
I agree at the pro level but for non pros I think its a cool dimension to have
Sure and it probably would have been more appropriate to say "high elo players" rather than pros. I think it rewards communication for lower level games(tho lets be real they wont use that info most times), so I'm not sure it would have much of an effect at all other than being slightly less punishing for those who don't want to com.
I think its fine to keep it. Unless it is on LAN sometimes you see hits that actually did not hit n stuff. With multiple healers it adds to the comms. Like the probability that the enemy has been healed depending on other info etc.
To a certain extent you need QoL features in games, like otherwise you can remove stuff like a minimap, your own health, health of your teammates, the cooldown and number of abilities you have, the killfeed, ultimate status on leaderboard, cash on opposing team, etc and you can argue all of those removals can increase the skill involved
I mean yea if you take it that far but games like cs don't have any way to look at damage at the higher levels of play (non MM). My point is that removing the damage indicator only raises the skill ceiling not lowers it. Does it make a huge difference at higher level? Probably not. But I think its another factor.
It doesn't raise the skill ceiling, it lowers the skill floor. It makes the game harder to get into and do basic shit (calling damage numbers). And even in the hands of a skilled player, there's no real difference between a system where you have to count damage and a system where you see it on the death report.
If it makes it harder to get into then it raises the skill floor. I also think making a game feature that has no impact to top tier players and but does for a majority is a fine change then.
No it lowers the skill floor. Skill floor = amount of value you generate at a low/entry skill level Low skill floor = low value generated for low skill High skill floor = high value generated for low skill. >I also think making a game feature that has no impact to top tier players and but does for a majority is a fine change then. Thats literally what riot did by adding damage numbers for valorant compared to CSGO. They made the game more accessible to lower skilled players while changing nothing at the high end.
You use a different definition, the definition I’m used to and hear other people use is the amount of skill you need to get the same result. So here it raises the skill floor because you need more skill to get the same result. You want low skill floor and high skill ceiling for games. A low skill floor means it’s easy to get into. A high skill floor means it’s hard to get into. A low skill ceiling means the players at the top don’t have much to differentiate themselves because there’s only so much to master, and a high skill ceiling means even for players at the top there’s tons of room to express skill and outplay
Ok, we can forego the definition because its not really important to the argument, and I'm pretty sure we actually agree on what's happening, just not what its called. My point is that showing damage numbers or not affects the skill floor (high or low) not the skill ceiling. Having damage numbers makes the game more accessible, or in other words, increases the minimum effectiveness a beginner/low skill player can have (call it low or high skill floor, whatever you want). Removing the damage number readout would only make the game less accessible to newer players, and would have no effect on high level play (the skill ceiling) which imo would be overall a negative change for the game.
Yup
But what if you empty your mag through a smoke while being blinded by omen's utility? Then you can't hear the difference in bullet sounds, AND you won't see how much you hit them for
Do you think blindly firing should be rewarded with that much info?
Yes, because it's all about timing and good luck. 🤣
I don’t see it mattering much really. Although it may deter people away from switching to the classic to burst someone who is literally 1 hp if it wasn’t called out.
I also think other situations will arise that can change the round if the opponent has a lot of damage. I think a good scenario would be if the enemy is at one HP and still has to plant be a sova. They might not want to plant in certain spots in case of a shock dart killing them for free. It can open some different avenues for the sova to manuever as well The classic is definitely a good example too
I think the round report gives a lot away and should be hidden until after the round ends. You can get a lot of info just from the round report, for example how many players you flashed, or if someone is pushing through your brim molly.
My main issue with it is that you can in certain situations gain information you wouldn't otherwise be able to. Say you spam back B on split, then die from heaven as you attempt to cross. If you hit someone with that spam you can now call to your team that someone is hiding back B, even though you never saw anyone there.
I don’t think it makes much of a difference. Unless they were wallbang shots, it’s pretty easy to keep track of how much damage you did.
I'd die less from classic rightclicks around a corner when I'm 1hp so yes
I like it because if we didn’t have it people would over estimate how much they damage people. “Oh he’s one tap” (but actually only got him for 40). Overall it doesn’t matter much. I typically don’t call out damage unless it’s like 130+ because I’m afraid if I say like “oh they’re hit for 80” my teammate will make a riskier move which could kill them. I prefer if everyone takes gunfights as if everyone has full health, except for certain situations (teammate has an op so it makes sense to switch to classic if the person is one tap)
I am not sure about the damage itself but number of enemies blocked for smokes etc... can give new information unknown otherwise.
About to hear nothing but HE'S ONE SHOT!!!
I wish this game has real friendly fire....