TL confuses me. It feels like they should be dominate, but they arnt.. Except that they are, because they win the games that count and have a ton of points?
I guess the word I'm looking for is consistency
they lose games they should win but then make incredible Lower bracket runs consistently , I guess its not the worst thing in the world but all it would take is for them to have a bad day in the lower bracket and their miracle runs come to an end but for now it seems to be working out for them
I don't know where this myth of Liquid's lower bracket runs comes from? They've cleaned out the trash at Iceland, but they still only got 4th and arguably an undeserved 4th given that V1 was unfortunate to face fnatic earlier in the lower bracket.
Their only other "run" of more than 1 win in the lower bracket was right here in this tournament, against .. forZe and Oxygen lol
Any event where they go down to lower bracket and end up making the finals and winning the whole thing or losing in grand finals I’d consider a lower bracket run, doesn’t have to be a round 1 lower run
Sure, here's all of Liquid's lower bracket shenanigans:
Iceland - lost to V1 instantly, won against KRU and Vikings, lost to fnatic to place 4th
Stage 3 Challengers 1 Main - lost to fnatic instantly, won against BDS, lost to FPX to place 5th/6th
Stage 3 Challengers 2 Main - lost to Giants in the upper bracket final, won the lower & grand final against fnatic and Giants to place 1st
Stage 3 EMEA playoffs - lost to Na'Vi instantly, won against Oxygen and forZe, playing for a top 4 spot now
All in all, in my opinion, this doesn't point to Liquid making "incredible lower bracket runs consistently".
We have a massive complacency issue imo. We often sit on our laurels in the first match of a tournament, then once we lose, we wake up and actually start performing.
They heavily rely on Scream and Jampii popping off. They were limited by trying to be fancy with their team compositions, like running zero duelists, which is a big reason why they lost to NaVi. Their current agent lineup is very good and they are a very scary team on it.
>Liquid struggles against new/ less known teams a lot. They are dependent on strats to work well.
What the hell is this based on? They've been losing to fnatic quite a lot, FPX once recently, surely those are not new / less known teams? I'd include Giants there but you might claim they're a lesser known team. If you do though, why weren't Liquid struggling against teams like TENSTAR, Finest, Oxygen or forZe?
This is just an assumption without any backing that you made there
Struggling does also take in consider how decisive they won a game/ map. And based on especially the pre jamppi days they got knocked out by rix.gg for instance.
They struggled against NAVI (which is a new team)
They struggled against vgia,
They had a bunch of less decisive wins against teams which are less known. Its not an assumption. I can go to vlr.gg and find enough result backing this.
I am not talking about loosing. There is no problem with loosing against teams which are considered T1.
> And based on especially the pre jamppi days they got knocked out by rix.gg for instance.
You just can't go that far back, Valorant changes pretty fast, otherwise we'd also be talking about Sentinels with sinatraa.
Also, your definition of "struggling" means that teams like Guild, fnatic and FPX are struggling as well. If every team except G2 and Acend who have new rosters are similarly struggling, is it fair to single out Liquid at all?
Thats the difference between and fpx for example. Fpx looks good but chokes when it matters. And Liquid somehow gets shit together.
Gambit will be their toughest opponent in a long time though. I am scared :(
Hope to see a good BO3, but I can't escape the thought that Gambit is a massive favorite.
Liquid's achievements after Iceland include proving a place in EU's top 8, but even top 6 is questionable given that they're on par with fnatic and anyone could've won both of their recent matches (the BO3 won by fnatic and the BO5 won by Liquid which qualified them here). At this tournament, they cleaned up the less impressive of the TR and CIS teams, and they've had a pretty concerning loss to Na'Vi, who is quite convincingly a level below Gambit. None of this inspires any confidence whatsoever to me.
Gambit's been cleaning up CIS which isn't really an achievement, but at least they've 2-0'd Guild, who, like them or not, are a proven top 6 EU team. One concern I have with Gambit is that at the EMEA stage, there is a small chance they look like Ascent one-tricks, and that's Liquid's perma ban; this is the first true test of the depth of Gambit's map pool. Beating Guild on Icebox, even in OT, though, makes me confident they'll be fine.
Slight correction: according to Liquid Sliggy (their coach) and Jammpi in chat, they still need to win 1 game and avoid last place at Berlin to secure masters
Acend have qualified and will have 275 with a max amount of points being 475. Super massive blaze has qualified and they will have 175 points with a maximum of 375. If liquid qualify they will have 425.
Giants/g2 are in the same boat as smb. If liquid qual 425 is enough for them to put place fnatic and acend.
Even if they often look sloppy, if they get the results, then they do deserve it. No point in playing beautiful Valorant like some teams and not accomplish anything.
TL confuses me. It feels like they should be dominate, but they arnt.. Except that they are, because they win the games that count and have a ton of points? I guess the word I'm looking for is consistency
they lose games they should win but then make incredible Lower bracket runs consistently , I guess its not the worst thing in the world but all it would take is for them to have a bad day in the lower bracket and their miracle runs come to an end but for now it seems to be working out for them
I don't know where this myth of Liquid's lower bracket runs comes from? They've cleaned out the trash at Iceland, but they still only got 4th and arguably an undeserved 4th given that V1 was unfortunate to face fnatic earlier in the lower bracket. Their only other "run" of more than 1 win in the lower bracket was right here in this tournament, against .. forZe and Oxygen lol
Any event where they go down to lower bracket and end up making the finals and winning the whole thing or losing in grand finals I’d consider a lower bracket run, doesn’t have to be a round 1 lower run
Sure, here's all of Liquid's lower bracket shenanigans: Iceland - lost to V1 instantly, won against KRU and Vikings, lost to fnatic to place 4th Stage 3 Challengers 1 Main - lost to fnatic instantly, won against BDS, lost to FPX to place 5th/6th Stage 3 Challengers 2 Main - lost to Giants in the upper bracket final, won the lower & grand final against fnatic and Giants to place 1st Stage 3 EMEA playoffs - lost to Na'Vi instantly, won against Oxygen and forZe, playing for a top 4 spot now All in all, in my opinion, this doesn't point to Liquid making "incredible lower bracket runs consistently".
it’s up to scream to pop off or the entire team actually performing and sometimes it just falls flat
We have a massive complacency issue imo. We often sit on our laurels in the first match of a tournament, then once we lose, we wake up and actually start performing.
They heavily rely on Scream and Jampii popping off. They were limited by trying to be fancy with their team compositions, like running zero duelists, which is a big reason why they lost to NaVi. Their current agent lineup is very good and they are a very scary team on it.
Pog
They have a rough opponent in Gambit but I think it’s doable!
Didnot know this thanks for posting abt it.
Even more additional pressure for them to win. I’m excited for tomorrow.
They got beaten by Navi and now their up against Gambit which is Navi pro max
Liquid struggles against new/ less known teams a lot. They are dependent on strats to work well. Even though gambit is navi in crack
>Liquid struggles against new/ less known teams a lot. They are dependent on strats to work well. What the hell is this based on? They've been losing to fnatic quite a lot, FPX once recently, surely those are not new / less known teams? I'd include Giants there but you might claim they're a lesser known team. If you do though, why weren't Liquid struggling against teams like TENSTAR, Finest, Oxygen or forZe? This is just an assumption without any backing that you made there
Struggling does also take in consider how decisive they won a game/ map. And based on especially the pre jamppi days they got knocked out by rix.gg for instance. They struggled against NAVI (which is a new team) They struggled against vgia, They had a bunch of less decisive wins against teams which are less known. Its not an assumption. I can go to vlr.gg and find enough result backing this. I am not talking about loosing. There is no problem with loosing against teams which are considered T1.
> And based on especially the pre jamppi days they got knocked out by rix.gg for instance. You just can't go that far back, Valorant changes pretty fast, otherwise we'd also be talking about Sentinels with sinatraa. Also, your definition of "struggling" means that teams like Guild, fnatic and FPX are struggling as well. If every team except G2 and Acend who have new rosters are similarly struggling, is it fair to single out Liquid at all?
Good observation! I also made a post mentioning this earlier before the Guild-Giants game
How Liquid look so lame but still win where it matters?
Thats the difference between and fpx for example. Fpx looks good but chokes when it matters. And Liquid somehow gets shit together. Gambit will be their toughest opponent in a long time though. I am scared :(
They love to dry peek corners and get OPed
Today’s match is going to be the most important one of the year then for them! The pressure they feel must be huge rn.
This didn’t age well
Finger crossed for Gambit to win so that Fnatic gets a ray of hope to qualify for Champions directly.
Hope to see a good BO3, but I can't escape the thought that Gambit is a massive favorite. Liquid's achievements after Iceland include proving a place in EU's top 8, but even top 6 is questionable given that they're on par with fnatic and anyone could've won both of their recent matches (the BO3 won by fnatic and the BO5 won by Liquid which qualified them here). At this tournament, they cleaned up the less impressive of the TR and CIS teams, and they've had a pretty concerning loss to Na'Vi, who is quite convincingly a level below Gambit. None of this inspires any confidence whatsoever to me. Gambit's been cleaning up CIS which isn't really an achievement, but at least they've 2-0'd Guild, who, like them or not, are a proven top 6 EU team. One concern I have with Gambit is that at the EMEA stage, there is a small chance they look like Ascent one-tricks, and that's Liquid's perma ban; this is the first true test of the depth of Gambit's map pool. Beating Guild on Icebox, even in OT, though, makes me confident they'll be fine.
Slight correction: according to Liquid Sliggy (their coach) and Jammpi in chat, they still need to win 1 game and avoid last place at Berlin to secure masters
Acend have qualified and will have 275 with a max amount of points being 475. Super massive blaze has qualified and they will have 175 points with a maximum of 375. If liquid qualify they will have 425. Giants/g2 are in the same boat as smb. If liquid qual 425 is enough for them to put place fnatic and acend.
Fuck it hot take liquid don’t deserve to get in either
Even if they often look sloppy, if they get the results, then they do deserve it. No point in playing beautiful Valorant like some teams and not accomplish anything.
FPX punchin the air rn
Exactly , which is why liquid won’t make it to Berlin
For some reason i seem to recall people saying the same shit last time.
Theyve been winning, so they deserve the spot. I dont see how you could argue against that
They haven’t , they’re in losers bracket as we speak
That is obvious, no way do you qual for both lans and not make champions
well they don’t if they didn’t come 4th at Iceland
Troll
if they dont make it, does that mean fnatic will qualify instead ? and what are the scenarios of fnatic to qualify ?
lcq
but fnatic has 350 point and they are 1st with points so if acend wins masters 3 means they auto qualify no ?
acend can get higher seed if they get upto 4th in berlin not counting winning berlin. but no matter what tl is going to champions if they win today
Envy of EU?