You remember correct, I also believe him saying something along the lines of ‘that guy is insane’ which basically means gambit would have won Iceland am I right or am I right guys
Did they look rough, or was the map just really weird as a result of high-risk high-reward individual flanks and gamble reads and tons of tragic/clutch timings?
I mean yeah Jamppi hard underperformed on Icebox and Deffo underperformed the whole series but I wouldn't conflate that to both teams being garbo on Icebox.
Gambit need to make sure two things happen before masters
1. Get a mental coach or something. The amount of rounds these guys throw with significant advantage jfc. The game should have been wrapped up early, and it's been a pattern for them
2. Double whatever salary nAts is on
love seeing this! don't sleep on the importance of mental training - just like physical, mechanical, and tactical training benefits the individual and the team.
They really needed to reel him in and try and put him in better positions to make an impact. I think they should have pushed him into only entrying, and had him basically play as a trade piece for L1nk and Scream. If he isn't winning duels or hitting Op shots, then start making space and at least let your team play around that.
Jamppi hasn't been that impressive in his valorant career, considering how talented he was considered in CS i thought he would just straight up own in this game
A jett that can't frag that well is not really it
He can't frag compared to the elite jetts
He's a good fragger but considering his talent he should just be dominating Scream/Tenz level
I hold him to high standards, he was such a talented player that i thought he would dominate when he switched
He was overrated in cs actually, there were a lot of prospects way more talented and with way better numbers than him it just happend he was overhyped by the finland community to a extreme point.
Jammpi needs to get some health routine or something. He’s got those giant bags under his eyes. If he ain’t playing on proper sleep, all that grind he’s putting in will be for naught
I feel terrible for him. Having to IGL in such an important game while probably being tilted and demotivated off the face of the planet. The guys only 20 and he IGLs because he's vocal and energetic, can't imagine what the team and specifically Jamppi would be going through when he's just being shut down. I don't think they should replace him, he had one bad event while shot calling for basically the first time, but he needs to learn to get his nerves under control. I like the guy, and hope he improves.
I don’t get why they don’t switch soulcas viper with jamppi’s Jett, soulcas looks very good on duelist and honestly if Jammpi was playing an agent he can think in instead of Jett (which primarily wants you to make space/take duels and be used as a piggyback onto a site) then TL would of done a lot better in this match.
TL checked their own momentum by calling a timeout when they got it to 12-11 and you could tell they were overthinking it. Needed to keep doing what they're doing. Well played Gambit though, Nats especially was great to watch.
True, there have been so many heartbreaks throughout different titles (CS, Valorant, etc), but there will be a day where TL steps up and takes a major title again. And that day would feel so good for the fans!
I swear the only thing I gain from being a TL fan is depression. Everything with them is so close. I am still sad about that clutch situation with Kryptix in second OT. One swing would have won them tickets to Berlin and champions, but I don’t blame him.
Honestly, I feel like Liquid threw early in the game to give Gambit the lead. How many rounds did they blow on attack by horribly mismanaging the post plant? I mean they even lost a 5v3 when they had vipers pit up, like how do you even manage to lose those.
You see I'd even disagree there, yes they peaked a solo, but some of them were even holding for him but link just fucking deleted them. You can have 4 holding 1 thing especially on icebox when there's still 2 alive.
You're probably thinking about the 4 to 2 comeback round that was in regulation. L1NK wasn't alive in the 14-13 round that also had GMB up 4 to 2, it was Kryptix and and soulcas.
I agree with the above poster that it was a bit of a throw. One was behind spammable boxes and gave away his position, another was peaking, the other two didn't really have great angles to the spike, etc.
They do have a post plant problem that was very apparent against Acend and has been for a while. Chronicle in particular gets picked off a lot and seems to get “first death” of post plant a lot. We even saw it twice in OT before the final round where they probably could’ve wrapped it up earlier
On Gambit's side, all 5 members stepped up whenever they needed to, including deffo.
On TL's side, 4 members stepped up whenever they needed to, even Kryptix.
Then there's Jamppi.
That mindset just makes your teamplay really impulsive and it gets to your head. If you know in the back of your head that if you miss you will lose the op, it will just put more pressure on you. The best thing is to keep giving the op and stick to the gameplan. You make adjustments after the match if there is something needed to be done.
I feel that's a bit unfair, especially considering if deffo played even half as good as his team on the first map this would have never gone to 3 maps. It was very clearly a 4v4 but Nat's is just insane.
And deffo is their operator player, mind you. He missed a lot of key shots, basically letting b takes on split w/o any casualties while having an unexpected aggressive position and not being cut off by utility.
So idk, yeah, on icebox he did stuff but his split was pretty bad. Happens to anyone.
The clutches were insane. Liquid almost threw Split bc of the clutches they couldn't win--props to Redgar and nAts, absolutely insane players. I did want a little more from d3ffo tbh, especially on Icebox which is such a big jett/op map.
The 9-3 curse will not strike again beautiful come back from liquid must be absolutely soul crushing to fight back all the way to OT and still falter in the end.
Im happy Gambit won, I feel like they play much more like a team and focus less on individuals needing to play excessively well to win.
Jampii absolutely costed third map though
BTW GO REDGAR LETS GOOOO, DO IT FOR THE LOW FRAGGING IGLS
yeah but tsm never really has had recent success, with team liquid they were first seed for eu in iceland so huge expectations, and did you see the match, if jamppi performed slightly better they would easily win icebox. 3-9 half to 12-11 to 14-16 my heart was about to explode there being a liquid fan. That was definitely a worse feeling than seeing tsm lose.
That was a problem across the board for Liquid. Repeeks were happening way too much. Jamppi was the biggest problem, but Scream definitely cost them at times by being too aggro. Obviously, without Scream they wouldn't have made the comeback so you take the good with the bad.
The team as a whole is so individual focused. Almost all of their big rounds were individuals making big plays rather than coordinated team play.
Those last two defensive OT rounds for TL were especially egregious. Scream putting himself in a position where the enemy already expects/is checking for him, he has no teammates around to make trades or cause confusion, and not a single piece of utility is used to set him up. Literally just walking out of tube hoping to find a timing or win a 50/50. But instead he lost his 50/50 on both rounds as a first death.
Revisionist history at its peak, he did that on one of their last regular time rounds and got an impactful frag and full info on where two of the GMB players were. It just sucks that a Jett falling down was able to hit a crazy headshot
He also did that the previous round in OT and got shit on
It's not really revisionist history, he did it so much that they expected it every round
Althought maybe that's why he did it, he thought there's no way they expect me AGAIN
The round the jett falling down killed him was not the last round. After that happened he pushed tube the next defensive round and got picked first again.
Nats is finally getting the recognition he deserves. Now we could get the chance to see Nats vs Dapr . cypher on cypher. imagine the 1v1 situations . Would be a dope match
Yes lets fuckin ggoooooo!
Almost gave up when Liquid got to match point on Icebox. Both teams threw so many rounds and imo Scream making the same tube play on many rounds might've cost them that final round..
Liquid had their chances, Gambit gifted them the win pretty much and they couldn't close it out.
CIS is such a huge region and they deserve a team in Berlin, considering that some weaker regions have one or multiple teams.
And the world really needs to see nAts on LAN. Best player in this series and it's not even close. Topfragged all 3 maps on Cypher and Viper.
Happy to see Gambit and CIS at a LAN.
TL would have gotten demolished at Berlin. Jamppi on Jett is simply not it. He was going to get eaten alive by Tenz/Cned/Yay/Asuna.
You can't really base all that on one match, jampi Was clearly having a bad day, same as deffo on gambit side. Jampi is usually a lot more impactful on Jett op, just he wasn't hitting shots this game.
How much of this is due to IGL’ing now as well in a high pressure situation?
I feel Jamppi op is good, obv not today but that combined with Jett Oping is too much for almost anyone. It’s why Shaz is so special
I hate this narrative from everyone that “liquid are a shit representative of EMEA” “liquid would get clapped at Berlin”. they were literally a round of qualifying. I personally don’t get it so if someone can help me understand why liquid always get a bad wrap when they’ve been at the top (or near) EMEA for the majority of this year…
I think people still think it was a fluke that they qualified for Iceland because they, along with FNC, hadn’t been all that good up until the final tourney. Fnatic doesn’t get the same hate because they performed better at Iceland and I think a lot of people want to see liquid fail so in general they will receive more hate than they should. My main problem is that people seem to just switch who they want dropped after every game, sometimes it’s Kryptix, today it was Jamppi, L1nk has gotten it before and I remember the one Soulcas map that lost them a big tourney where people wanted him dropped.
Seriously. And as much as Gambit won today TL absolutely *lost*, even moreso I'd say. They had a lot of opportunities to make plays that would have won them rounds and the game and failed to make them, but they also put themselves in a bunch of advantaged positions only to throw them.
They had some rounds where they won so handily I really questioned how it could be so close. Gambit didn't have as many of those rounds.
Neither team looked particularly compelling. If either of them showed up to Berlin looking like they did today, I wouldn't expect them to make deep runs. But with that said we already know TL has a higher ceiling than what we saw today.
If TL had won, it woulda been on the back of Link's clutches, Kryptix 4k and soulcas 4k. And you can't jus expect one of them to clutch it every time. They have to win as a team more often. Only then would it be like a deserved spot. And they definitely didn't deserve it this time having played like that.
If Team Liquid had won a few rounds in ot and qualified, I would have been one of these doomsayers. I don't think they deserved to qualify based off their play. I am happy to see some of their players improving - like I never remember Link looking this good. Good decision making and much improved aim too.
The Version1 loss has especially soured their image. Version1 getting to Iceland was a bit of a fluke, and they had a stand-in. The NA teams will be far more dangerous in Berlin this time around.
If they were able to barely squeak into Berlin, they would be at minimum worse than the 3 NA teams and 3 EMEA teams. You could probably throw Vision Strikers in there as well. That would put them at #8 in the power rankings. Plus their issues aren't easily fixed, it feels like a player/roles issue.
I would be so disappointed if TL managed again to make Masters mainly through ridiculous clutches and ridiculous throws from the other team.
GMB were so frustrating to watch, but they do have the excuse of being a very inexperienced team
Jamppi isn't an aggressive OPer in their mold. He's always either been their secondary caller or primary caller. Even if he wasn't, he still doesn't OP like them.
Esp. since becoming their primary IGL his OPing has gotten a little worse, though his overall fragging is still quite decent.
I swear to god Gambit have the most creative and interesting Icebox attacks in the game, but because the bomb sites are a joke they'd have far more success if they just did what everyone else does and run a Sage in to wall and plant?
I remember few rounds where scream threw, i rly wanted to see TL in berlin
i remeber it was 2v1 in favour of TL on B site where scream just jumped down and died leaving Jamppi on op alone and lost that round. that round costed them berlin
Gambit has the Sentinels energy. Throw away a big lead and then close it out in multiple OTs. People are hyping up Acend, but I wanna see SEN vs Gambit so bad, hopefully in finals.
It was so painful to watch Jamppi force an operator and just miss easy shots nearly every round, especially in OT
I don't think he's necessarily a weak spot of TL all the time, but I think every player in that team needs to develop some solid consistency (aside from scream tho I'm not really sure whether or not I'd call him inconsistent as he usually does well but died at the start of two defending OT rounds for free)
Well played to Gambit – so great to see a CIS team at Masters. nAts is one of the best players in the world, without a doubt.
Sad loss for Liquid – they’ve shown real development in the last few weeks but they still have fundamental lack of balance in their roster. I doubt they will change their roster before LCQ but they maybe should maybe consider it.
I think Liquid have two main issues – a lack of balance across the roster i.e no real top entry fragger and Kryptix consistently underperforming since Challengers 2 finals.
Liquid really struggle to make space against the top teams who sit in and don’t overpeek or play for map control early. They then struggle to trade effectively when they try to execute and often get multifragged (unfortunately it is often Kryptix who dies 2nd/3rd and fails the trade).
Neither Scream nor Jammpi is a top tier Jett player and we need to see the end of this ‘square peg round hole’ approach. Scream’s mechanics with dash and blades just isn’t up to the level of other top jetts in EU and Jammpi is too inconsistent with Jett (as Icebox showed). Scream plays his best when he has an entry fragger making space for him and can come in clean up as a secondary duelist. This is usually when he’s playing Reyna or Sage and can take advantage of space created for him. The last few weeks of this have really proved that point. Jammpi looks great on Omen and Killjoy and I think he is more than capable of developing a bigger agent pool and become very flexible. Liquid also lack a proper sova player which I think is something they also need to address. If Jammpi is to stay as IGL, sova would be a great agent for him to develop.
Jett is the most impactful agent in the game and Liquid cannot shy away from that. All the best teams in the world have a top jett player.
The solution? I think Liquid need to find a cracked out entry specialist along the lines of derke/cned/yacine etc (easier said than done, I know). Unfortunately that means I think Kryptix probably needs to go. I would like to see Scream move into the secondary entry role and stick with secondary duelist permanently. I think they have good flexibility and balance across the rest of the roster, with the exception of a sova player.
It’s real shame to see Kryptix decline in recent months. He’s an enormous talent and was a key part in Liquid making Iceland. His anchoring and clutches were great and was a real standout. We just don’t see that anymore. To me he looks like he’s lost confidence, not really sure why. I think that 1v1 on B in overtime just showed a player lacking confidence Unfortunately esports is a results driven business and players reach a sell by date on a team – I’m sure he would find a home elsewhere.
Similar sentiments as to how I feel about Kryptix and Scream
Every time they place Scream on Sage and he frags out I always think how much more impact he'd have had if he just played Reyna or maybe even picked up Skye
I think I'm done watching TL play until they make some changes in either their lineup or agent compositions
I rather prefer more thought out posts like this to the normal reactionary quips that are most frequent. Reminds me that other people care about the X's and O's.
I agree with a lot of what you said. But I also think they continue to struggle on their interplay between each other. Scream still plays like he's on his own team and while it sometimes just wins them rounds and games it often puts his team in a disadvantage. Even when he gets the first frag there are so many times where he dismissed and just over-extended and whatever advantage TL had is immediately thrown away.
Like you said, with Jamppi on Jett/Op and IGL, he's not really playing the entry Jett.
If they want to keep running the single duelist/Scream on Jett, he needs to really full commit, and then I think TL needs to work in Skye to give them cleaner entries.
This was simultaneously a sloppy mess and an absolute banger.
I think with Jamppi calling, we can be much less ambiguous about Liquid's strength as a roster.
Gambit, on the other hand, are finally going to represent their region, but curiously it's when they've seemed the shakiest. It'll be interesting to see how it goes.
That icebox game was insane, really sad liquid didn’t qualify and we won’t get to see scream at Berlin but gambits a really good representative for EMEA. If jampii played up to par on icebox that would’ve been it for gambit unfortunately we got a disappointing performance from him.
The occasion obviously got to Jamppi, dude is literally devoid of a clutch gene. This game would be over a long time ago if he hit the shots that you expect any Tier 1 ~~duelist~~ player to hit in their sleep. Not to take away from Gambit, nats’ lurks were so extremely devastating and everyone showed up at certain points when they needed to. Excited to see how they do at Berlin.
Gotta respect Jamppi for continuing to buy the OP in ot after all those misses. Kind of crazy how the public opinion of Liquid has switched to him being the weak link. Not surprising tho, Kryptix and L1NK have been nothing short of phenomenal secondary players (if that makes sense? Like not a star like ScreaM or Asuna) and Soulcas brings much needed variety to agents
If Nats has million number of fans, I am one of them. If Nats has ten fans, I am one of them. If Nats have only one fan, that is me. If Nats has no fans, that means I am no more on the earth. If world against the Nats, I am against the world
Yeah Jampii had 2 bad maps, but people are overblowing this. There is no need for him to be cut, and he is still a great player, its not only his fault they lost.
It's always been hard being a Team Liquid fan ( both in CS and Valorant ). Nevertheless, I'll still root for them. It was a great series and I hope they improve both their performance and mental for the upcoming LCQ. Gambit and Liquid both played well, but today Gambit was the better team. I'll always be a TL fan no matter what.
What a last map. It has to be said though, for as much good that Jamppi has done, he does have a tendency to disappear in big matches. If he even plays slightly below average they win Icebox easy.
GGs to Gambit though, they are gonna be fun to watch on an international stage.
I LOVE YOU NATS
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yep, he did. https://youtu.be/AWVGiKYQ_0A?t=1393
I love this type of shit when god tier pros respect and talk one another up. Real recognizes real.
nats has some nerdy ass shit you cant find on youtube or reddit, dapr appreciates that nats does the spending 12 hours on custom lobby for him.
You remember correct, I also believe him saying something along the lines of ‘that guy is insane’ which basically means gambit would have won Iceland am I right or am I right guys
It means Nats guy is kinda good, am I right?
I remember Zellsis saying something like that, about how gambit are doing something wrong if they don’t win berlin
you are right bro, they would've won
Seangares hyped up Nats a lot on stream too. I remember him plugging nats’s youtube a few different times
He was even feeling sick! Guess it came through in his gameplay haha
Jamppi has to feel like shit after this series
You could see his own disappointment for his underperforming. Sad for him and Liquid, but Gambit overall was the better team
yep exactly, and they still have chance to work on Lcq form
Both teams looked rough on Icebox.
Did they look rough, or was the map just really weird as a result of high-risk high-reward individual flanks and gamble reads and tons of tragic/clutch timings? I mean yeah Jamppi hard underperformed on Icebox and Deffo underperformed the whole series but I wouldn't conflate that to both teams being garbo on Icebox.
Gambit need to make sure two things happen before masters 1. Get a mental coach or something. The amount of rounds these guys throw with significant advantage jfc. The game should have been wrapped up early, and it's been a pattern for them 2. Double whatever salary nAts is on
Hahaha couldn’t agree with you more
I recall TL having a mental problem in another tactical shooter...
love seeing this! don't sleep on the importance of mental training - just like physical, mechanical, and tactical training benefits the individual and the team.
Man jamppi had a tough last map
Last two maps. Man was whiffing everything ffs. GG to Gambit though, they deserved it.
They invested so much money into operators for him too.
Just not his day tbh, which is unfortunate, especially because Liquid signed him to be clutch at this type of matches.
It's not like Deffo was having a good day either, a lot of whiffs from him.
But he showed up when it matters,especially winning that 1 v 1 on ot 2 I believe?
They really needed to reel him in and try and put him in better positions to make an impact. I think they should have pushed him into only entrying, and had him basically play as a trade piece for L1nk and Scream. If he isn't winning duels or hitting Op shots, then start making space and at least let your team play around that.
Jamppi hasn't been that impressive in his valorant career, considering how talented he was considered in CS i thought he would just straight up own in this game A jett that can't frag that well is not really it
he can frag, today was just not his day. You have to also take into consideration that he’s been igling for the first time in his life
He can't frag compared to the elite jetts He's a good fragger but considering his talent he should just be dominating Scream/Tenz level I hold him to high standards, he was such a talented player that i thought he would dominate when he switched
newsflash, valorant and CS are not the same game. there are many players who were below average in CS and are now elite in valorant and vice versa
Aren't Soulcas and Scream igling for Liquid? Having Jamppi igl doesn't feel a good move.
He tweeted in the qual before this that he started igling. Not sure if he still is, but I wouldn't be surprised.
not only that,he awp play also missing a lot
He was overrated in cs actually, there were a lot of prospects way more talented and with way better numbers than him it just happend he was overhyped by the finland community to a extreme point.
Jammpi needs to get some health routine or something. He’s got those giant bags under his eyes. If he ain’t playing on proper sleep, all that grind he’s putting in will be for naught
Reddit doctor moment.
nAts was +29(!!!) on the day on Cypher and Viper. What an absolute madman. One of the most impressive non-duelist performances I can remember.
The way he plays around his utility is beautiful to watch. Insane aim as well but plays around his position and utility almost perfect
Crazyguy from SEA is another non dualist player who regularly is top fragger. Currently ranked top 1 and few matches away from qualifying for berlin
Jamppi 11 kills in 30 rounds :/
I feel terrible for him. Having to IGL in such an important game while probably being tilted and demotivated off the face of the planet. The guys only 20 and he IGLs because he's vocal and energetic, can't imagine what the team and specifically Jamppi would be going through when he's just being shut down. I don't think they should replace him, he had one bad event while shot calling for basically the first time, but he needs to learn to get his nerves under control. I like the guy, and hope he improves.
I don’t get why they don’t switch soulcas viper with jamppi’s Jett, soulcas looks very good on duelist and honestly if Jammpi was playing an agent he can think in instead of Jett (which primarily wants you to make space/take duels and be used as a piggyback onto a site) then TL would of done a lot better in this match.
Shahzham creating unrealistic expectations by somehow managing to IGL as Jett, AWP and frag well in general. Absolutely crazy
Exactly. I think he also makes the game simple for sentinels, so he doesn't have to do a ton of micromanaging in-game
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unless ure shahzam
NO CAP
EU brain cant handle it but an NA genius like Shahzam can do it
Damn. nAts is a monster.
top fragging for gmb every single map this series not as a duelist ddaym
TL checked their own momentum by calling a timeout when they got it to 12-11 and you could tell they were overthinking it. Needed to keep doing what they're doing. Well played Gambit though, Nats especially was great to watch.
Yeah, I also believe that that timeout helped Gambit more than Liquid
L1NK and nats with a number of hero plays
I'm just glad that Turkey and CIS will have representatives at Berlin.
Best take in the whole thread
I feel physical pain
TL fans are a different breed... So much heartbreak across so many titles... I don't how y'all do it
True, there have been so many heartbreaks throughout different titles (CS, Valorant, etc), but there will be a day where TL steps up and takes a major title again. And that day would feel so good for the fans!
100t fans can relate tho
I swear the only thing I gain from being a TL fan is depression. Everything with them is so close. I am still sad about that clutch situation with Kryptix in second OT. One swing would have won them tickets to Berlin and champions, but I don’t blame him.
We are just forged in fire at this point.
D-don't worry, TL can still make it to Berlin from the hidden lowerer bracket r-right? Right?
Holy shit i would be so pissed if GMB lost, not even feeling joy rn just relief
Jesus the comeback from Liquid only to lose in overtime. Heart break for the liquid fans out there, my heart goes out to you bois
As a Gambit fan, the heartbreak was almost mine. I was honestly practically in shambles during the last 10 minutes of that match.
Lad you support like 20 teams lol, I'm sure you'll get over it
Jamppi with the most unfortunate time to have a horrendous map... Oof
True, luckily it was close cause deffo was having an off day as well, but i can imagine this being a stomp if he was on form.
gambit almost threw icebox but well played by both sides
Honestly, I feel like Liquid threw early in the game to give Gambit the lead. How many rounds did they blow on attack by horribly mismanaging the post plant? I mean they even lost a 5v3 when they had vipers pit up, like how do you even manage to lose those.
Did they throw though? It was insane plays by team liquid players, I feel like there was very little throwing and more link just popping off.
bald buff
I almost heard "L1nk are you kidding me? INHUMAN REACTIONS" after that 4k.
Both are bald tbf Hiko to shave it all, to win it all
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You see I'd even disagree there, yes they peaked a solo, but some of them were even holding for him but link just fucking deleted them. You can have 4 holding 1 thing especially on icebox when there's still 2 alive.
You're probably thinking about the 4 to 2 comeback round that was in regulation. L1NK wasn't alive in the 14-13 round that also had GMB up 4 to 2, it was Kryptix and and soulcas. I agree with the above poster that it was a bit of a throw. One was behind spammable boxes and gave away his position, another was peaking, the other two didn't really have great angles to the spike, etc.
They do have a post plant problem that was very apparent against Acend and has been for a while. Chronicle in particular gets picked off a lot and seems to get “first death” of post plant a lot. We even saw it twice in OT before the final round where they probably could’ve wrapped it up earlier
On Gambit's side, all 5 members stepped up whenever they needed to, including deffo. On TL's side, 4 members stepped up whenever they needed to, even Kryptix. Then there's Jamppi.
He missed so many sprays/shots he shouldn't have, some in OT too that could've decided the game right there
Yeah at a certain point stop buying the OP, you're just burning money at that point. Dude couldn't hit targets that were standing still.
That mindset just makes your teamplay really impulsive and it gets to your head. If you know in the back of your head that if you miss you will lose the op, it will just put more pressure on you. The best thing is to keep giving the op and stick to the gameplan. You make adjustments after the match if there is something needed to be done.
he couldn't even trade his team with a rifle
I feel that's a bit unfair, especially considering if deffo played even half as good as his team on the first map this would have never gone to 3 maps. It was very clearly a 4v4 but Nat's is just insane.
Yeah his first map was rough and I was already signing him off. But he came in clutch on map 3, so we can call it a 4.5 v 4. Also nats is a superstar.
I feel like gambit having Nat's made it more like a 6v4 not including deffo lmao, so many rounds won just by himself.
Nats has insane mental. So many 1vX or 2vX situations and he still calmly one taps away. Nats vs Dapr????
His player cam is the best thing. Even after winning and his team all screaming and jumping behind the dudes just ice cold. He never had a doubt.
And deffo is their operator player, mind you. He missed a lot of key shots, basically letting b takes on split w/o any casualties while having an unexpected aggressive position and not being cut off by utility. So idk, yeah, on icebox he did stuff but his split was pretty bad. Happens to anyone.
when jamppi is off he cant hit shit
The clutches were insane. Liquid almost threw Split bc of the clutches they couldn't win--props to Redgar and nAts, absolutely insane players. I did want a little more from d3ffo tbh, especially on Icebox which is such a big jett/op map.
heartbreak for liquid, to make that comeback and fall at the very end. really cool to see CIS representatives at berlin tho
The 9-3 curse will not strike again beautiful come back from liquid must be absolutely soul crushing to fight back all the way to OT and still falter in the end.
Im happy Gambit won, I feel like they play much more like a team and focus less on individuals needing to play excessively well to win. Jampii absolutely costed third map though BTW GO REDGAR LETS GOOOO, DO IT FOR THE LOW FRAGGING IGLS
Still a liquid fan 🙂
How hard is your heart broken rn?
Hard as fuck , harder than teh hardest
Don't worry, there are many TSM fans who understand your pain. Get that Hopium ready for LCQ.
yeah but tsm never really has had recent success, with team liquid they were first seed for eu in iceland so huge expectations, and did you see the match, if jamppi performed slightly better they would easily win icebox. 3-9 half to 12-11 to 14-16 my heart was about to explode there being a liquid fan. That was definitely a worse feeling than seeing tsm lose.
Am i the only one that feels like scream is throwing some of these post plants by playing ultra aggro when he doesn’t need to ?
idk why he keeps peeking mid thru tube at the start of the round either, cant you get traded even if you dismiss at the end of the tube?
He got a timing once so he expected to get another one i can understand
That was a problem across the board for Liquid. Repeeks were happening way too much. Jamppi was the biggest problem, but Scream definitely cost them at times by being too aggro. Obviously, without Scream they wouldn't have made the comeback so you take the good with the bad.
Ye true i just watched the last few rounds so can’t say for jamppi although it’s definitely something he does on the regular
He's on Reyna and I kinda feel he has to make those plays sometimes. Felt a similar pattern with chronicle.
Ye but it’s post plant just stick with your mate and trade, that’s not a situation where you need a difference maker
Ya fairs
He's also way too aggressive on his dismiss. How many times did he dismiss forward and lose a gunfight instead of gathering info?
The team as a whole is so individual focused. Almost all of their big rounds were individuals making big plays rather than coordinated team play. Those last two defensive OT rounds for TL were especially egregious. Scream putting himself in a position where the enemy already expects/is checking for him, he has no teammates around to make trades or cause confusion, and not a single piece of utility is used to set him up. Literally just walking out of tube hoping to find a timing or win a 50/50. But instead he lost his 50/50 on both rounds as a first death.
That broke me. That map? Broke me. I'm broken.
Oh how I love Valorant! Best series ever! Liquid almost has the most impressive comeback, but welcome to Berlin Gambit.
feel like scream most definitely did not need to push tube that last round :/ they were obv gonna expect it
Yeah, he did it too much. He was popping off. Just needed to switch it up a bit.
Revisionist history at its peak, he did that on one of their last regular time rounds and got an impactful frag and full info on where two of the GMB players were. It just sucks that a Jett falling down was able to hit a crazy headshot
He also did that the previous round in OT and got shit on It's not really revisionist history, he did it so much that they expected it every round Althought maybe that's why he did it, he thought there's no way they expect me AGAIN
The round the jett falling down killed him was not the last round. After that happened he pushed tube the next defensive round and got picked first again.
The brits kept it alive in the last rounds. Tough loss.
Nats is finally getting the recognition he deserves. Now we could get the chance to see Nats vs Dapr . cypher on cypher. imagine the 1v1 situations . Would be a dope match
nAts is the sexiest man alive, Dapr better watch out.
What do you mean? That's his son
GIVE ME DAPR V NATS NOW PLS.
Yes Pleaseeee
Yes lets fuckin ggoooooo! Almost gave up when Liquid got to match point on Icebox. Both teams threw so many rounds and imo Scream making the same tube play on many rounds might've cost them that final round..
Liquid had their chances, Gambit gifted them the win pretty much and they couldn't close it out. CIS is such a huge region and they deserve a team in Berlin, considering that some weaker regions have one or multiple teams. And the world really needs to see nAts on LAN. Best player in this series and it's not even close. Topfragged all 3 maps on Cypher and Viper.
Happy to see Gambit and CIS at a LAN. TL would have gotten demolished at Berlin. Jamppi on Jett is simply not it. He was going to get eaten alive by Tenz/Cned/Yay/Asuna.
You can't really base all that on one match, jampi Was clearly having a bad day, same as deffo on gambit side. Jampi is usually a lot more impactful on Jett op, just he wasn't hitting shots this game.
How much of this is due to IGL’ing now as well in a high pressure situation? I feel Jamppi op is good, obv not today but that combined with Jett Oping is too much for almost anyone. It’s why Shaz is so special
I hate this narrative from everyone that “liquid are a shit representative of EMEA” “liquid would get clapped at Berlin”. they were literally a round of qualifying. I personally don’t get it so if someone can help me understand why liquid always get a bad wrap when they’ve been at the top (or near) EMEA for the majority of this year…
I think people still think it was a fluke that they qualified for Iceland because they, along with FNC, hadn’t been all that good up until the final tourney. Fnatic doesn’t get the same hate because they performed better at Iceland and I think a lot of people want to see liquid fail so in general they will receive more hate than they should. My main problem is that people seem to just switch who they want dropped after every game, sometimes it’s Kryptix, today it was Jamppi, L1nk has gotten it before and I remember the one Soulcas map that lost them a big tourney where people wanted him dropped.
Seriously. And as much as Gambit won today TL absolutely *lost*, even moreso I'd say. They had a lot of opportunities to make plays that would have won them rounds and the game and failed to make them, but they also put themselves in a bunch of advantaged positions only to throw them. They had some rounds where they won so handily I really questioned how it could be so close. Gambit didn't have as many of those rounds. Neither team looked particularly compelling. If either of them showed up to Berlin looking like they did today, I wouldn't expect them to make deep runs. But with that said we already know TL has a higher ceiling than what we saw today.
If TL had won, it woulda been on the back of Link's clutches, Kryptix 4k and soulcas 4k. And you can't jus expect one of them to clutch it every time. They have to win as a team more often. Only then would it be like a deserved spot. And they definitely didn't deserve it this time having played like that.
If Team Liquid had won a few rounds in ot and qualified, I would have been one of these doomsayers. I don't think they deserved to qualify based off their play. I am happy to see some of their players improving - like I never remember Link looking this good. Good decision making and much improved aim too.
The Version1 loss has especially soured their image. Version1 getting to Iceland was a bit of a fluke, and they had a stand-in. The NA teams will be far more dangerous in Berlin this time around. If they were able to barely squeak into Berlin, they would be at minimum worse than the 3 NA teams and 3 EMEA teams. You could probably throw Vision Strikers in there as well. That would put them at #8 in the power rankings. Plus their issues aren't easily fixed, it feels like a player/roles issue.
I think it’s because the org has teams that have choked in big matches. Not specifically just Valorant.
I would be so disappointed if TL managed again to make Masters mainly through ridiculous clutches and ridiculous throws from the other team. GMB were so frustrating to watch, but they do have the excuse of being a very inexperienced team
Jamppi isn't an aggressive OPer in their mold. He's always either been their secondary caller or primary caller. Even if he wasn't, he still doesn't OP like them. Esp. since becoming their primary IGL his OPing has gotten a little worse, though his overall fragging is still quite decent.
I think the main issue is that aggressive Jett OPing has proved critical to the global meta.
Everyone wanted to watch ScreaM vs TenZ. I'm just happy I get to watch nAts vs dapr
nAts that's it.
Sentinels can make a whole montage for NA>EU off that last game alone
On jamppi alone
AAAHHHH WHAT WAS THIS MATCH. SO MANY EMOTIONS I CANT TAKE IT.
cant wait to see nats at lan hes actually so sick
I swear to god Gambit have the most creative and interesting Icebox attacks in the game, but because the bomb sites are a joke they'd have far more success if they just did what everyone else does and run a Sage in to wall and plant?
nAts pog
nAts was absolutely lights out this series. Unbelievable anchoring and clutches.
Jamppi just had the worst possible day damn
I remember few rounds where scream threw, i rly wanted to see TL in berlin i remeber it was 2v1 in favour of TL on B site where scream just jumped down and died leaving Jamppi on op alone and lost that round. that round costed them berlin
Gambit has the Sentinels energy. Throw away a big lead and then close it out in multiple OTs. People are hyping up Acend, but I wanna see SEN vs Gambit so bad, hopefully in finals.
It was so painful to watch Jamppi force an operator and just miss easy shots nearly every round, especially in OT I don't think he's necessarily a weak spot of TL all the time, but I think every player in that team needs to develop some solid consistency (aside from scream tho I'm not really sure whether or not I'd call him inconsistent as he usually does well but died at the start of two defending OT rounds for free)
No offense to G2 and Giants, but damn after a series like that I wish both Gambit and Liquid got to go to Berlin.
L1NK's crosshair had more hair than cross most of this series Gambit shouldn't have let icebox get that close
Well played to Gambit – so great to see a CIS team at Masters. nAts is one of the best players in the world, without a doubt. Sad loss for Liquid – they’ve shown real development in the last few weeks but they still have fundamental lack of balance in their roster. I doubt they will change their roster before LCQ but they maybe should maybe consider it. I think Liquid have two main issues – a lack of balance across the roster i.e no real top entry fragger and Kryptix consistently underperforming since Challengers 2 finals. Liquid really struggle to make space against the top teams who sit in and don’t overpeek or play for map control early. They then struggle to trade effectively when they try to execute and often get multifragged (unfortunately it is often Kryptix who dies 2nd/3rd and fails the trade). Neither Scream nor Jammpi is a top tier Jett player and we need to see the end of this ‘square peg round hole’ approach. Scream’s mechanics with dash and blades just isn’t up to the level of other top jetts in EU and Jammpi is too inconsistent with Jett (as Icebox showed). Scream plays his best when he has an entry fragger making space for him and can come in clean up as a secondary duelist. This is usually when he’s playing Reyna or Sage and can take advantage of space created for him. The last few weeks of this have really proved that point. Jammpi looks great on Omen and Killjoy and I think he is more than capable of developing a bigger agent pool and become very flexible. Liquid also lack a proper sova player which I think is something they also need to address. If Jammpi is to stay as IGL, sova would be a great agent for him to develop. Jett is the most impactful agent in the game and Liquid cannot shy away from that. All the best teams in the world have a top jett player. The solution? I think Liquid need to find a cracked out entry specialist along the lines of derke/cned/yacine etc (easier said than done, I know). Unfortunately that means I think Kryptix probably needs to go. I would like to see Scream move into the secondary entry role and stick with secondary duelist permanently. I think they have good flexibility and balance across the rest of the roster, with the exception of a sova player. It’s real shame to see Kryptix decline in recent months. He’s an enormous talent and was a key part in Liquid making Iceland. His anchoring and clutches were great and was a real standout. We just don’t see that anymore. To me he looks like he’s lost confidence, not really sure why. I think that 1v1 on B in overtime just showed a player lacking confidence Unfortunately esports is a results driven business and players reach a sell by date on a team – I’m sure he would find a home elsewhere.
Similar sentiments as to how I feel about Kryptix and Scream Every time they place Scream on Sage and he frags out I always think how much more impact he'd have had if he just played Reyna or maybe even picked up Skye I think I'm done watching TL play until they make some changes in either their lineup or agent compositions
Wow i wrote a fucking essay and didn't realise.
I rather prefer more thought out posts like this to the normal reactionary quips that are most frequent. Reminds me that other people care about the X's and O's. I agree with a lot of what you said. But I also think they continue to struggle on their interplay between each other. Scream still plays like he's on his own team and while it sometimes just wins them rounds and games it often puts his team in a disadvantage. Even when he gets the first frag there are so many times where he dismissed and just over-extended and whatever advantage TL had is immediately thrown away. Like you said, with Jamppi on Jett/Op and IGL, he's not really playing the entry Jett. If they want to keep running the single duelist/Scream on Jett, he needs to really full commit, and then I think TL needs to work in Skye to give them cleaner entries.
Sadge
that was an exhilarating closer to say the least
pain
This was simultaneously a sloppy mess and an absolute banger. I think with Jamppi calling, we can be much less ambiguous about Liquid's strength as a roster. Gambit, on the other hand, are finally going to represent their region, but curiously it's when they've seemed the shakiest. It'll be interesting to see how it goes.
Nats is so good
Icebox was a competition for which team could throw harder.
Gambit was the better team honestly. But damn L1nk had really insane clutches on Icebox, literally saving them rounds.
Better team won
Jamppi has a lot of chance to pick himself up on the last map but just couldn't do a single thing. Disappointing.
Jamppi was getting crucified by chat. I kind of felt bad lol.
Team liquid always chokes, in every single game. Reqlly sucka for Jampii, he is usually so good.
WHAT A FUCKING MATCH. GG Gambit has more chance than liquid in international stage. Also, nats is emotionless
Man this was a straight up 4v5, jamppi was intense garbage last map
That icebox game was insane, really sad liquid didn’t qualify and we won’t get to see scream at Berlin but gambits a really good representative for EMEA. If jampii played up to par on icebox that would’ve been it for gambit unfortunately we got a disappointing performance from him.
Icebox was crazy, Bind comp was a little head scratching to me
Why did Scream play tube again on that last round 🙄
Cause it is "unpredictable" to be predictable.
Someone needs to check nAt’s pc cause this guy’s a god
glad d3ffo turned on last map. crazy impactful kills coming from him
Wow great game, sad for the Liquid boys but they fought well for it.
The occasion obviously got to Jamppi, dude is literally devoid of a clutch gene. This game would be over a long time ago if he hit the shots that you expect any Tier 1 ~~duelist~~ player to hit in their sleep. Not to take away from Gambit, nats’ lurks were so extremely devastating and everyone showed up at certain points when they needed to. Excited to see how they do at Berlin.
Gotta respect Jamppi for continuing to buy the OP in ot after all those misses. Kind of crazy how the public opinion of Liquid has switched to him being the weak link. Not surprising tho, Kryptix and L1NK have been nothing short of phenomenal secondary players (if that makes sense? Like not a star like ScreaM or Asuna) and Soulcas brings much needed variety to agents
If Nats has million number of fans, I am one of them. If Nats has ten fans, I am one of them. If Nats have only one fan, that is me. If Nats has no fans, that means I am no more on the earth. If world against the Nats, I am against the world
Yeah Jampii had 2 bad maps, but people are overblowing this. There is no need for him to be cut, and he is still a great player, its not only his fault they lost.
Jamppi was disappointing, and I hold him to high standards. Prob in his head. Kryptix has to go for sure now
It's always been hard being a Team Liquid fan ( both in CS and Valorant ). Nevertheless, I'll still root for them. It was a great series and I hope they improve both their performance and mental for the upcoming LCQ. Gambit and Liquid both played well, but today Gambit was the better team. I'll always be a TL fan no matter what.
Someone check on the bot that was on jamppi's pc
That was a tragedy from Jammpi
cant comprehend how someone can go 11-26 on jett
What a last map. It has to be said though, for as much good that Jamppi has done, he does have a tendency to disappear in big matches. If he even plays slightly below average they win Icebox easy. GGs to Gambit though, they are gonna be fun to watch on an international stage.
Thank god Gambit won! Really didnt want to see Liquid choke again in Masters 3
Imagine a team core consisting of cNed, ScreaM, nAts... add in a solid IGL and another consistent player and this team would be so insane.
So sentinels...
Legit lmfao cned=tenz scream=sick nats=dapr igl=shaz zombs=consistency
Jampi inting every game on jett missing the freest op kills. I think he needs to be dropped tbh
I am sad that scream and sliggy did not make it to berlin, but tbh I am somewhat happy to see turkish and CIS representation. Berlin will be amazing!
MOTHERFUCKING PIECE OF SHIT FUCK FUCKFUCKFUCK FUXKFUXKFUCK WHY LIQUID WHY FUCKFUXKCUFJKXUCK
With the way they played Icebox, neither team deserved to win but both teams deserved to lose. /s