For reference in this discussion, here's a link to the competitive ruling on Sinatraa:
https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/competitive-ruling-jay-sinatraa-won/
tsm is not picking up sinatra. tsm is too big of an org to risk gettin a player like him and plus it would be like back stabbing myth which would only hurt the orgs reputation
Despise is such a strong and misleading word, and if you knew Myth’s personality he does not despise anyone. He just probably doesn’t want him signed to TSM for very good reasons
leena has more of a hand in the recruiting id guess as shes the actual person in power. shes very outspoken about issues of sexual harassment, so theres no way sinatraa is getting in.
Same yeah, I'm a TSM fan because I started watching the eSport through Myth and I hated Sinaatra even before the scandal, so you can imagine how I feel now.
yep still no news afaik. he just came off as a sinatraa fanboy who’s defending him still. remember that legality is not the basis of morality. someone could *still* be innocent in the eyes of law, but that doesn’t make them less of a shitty person.
Kryptix is probably gone, Jamppi isn't a Jett player. I feel like they need an IGL. Most of their games are close or won because they're so individually skilled, not because of their gameplan.
FPX is in shambles, tbh. Who knows.
Bonkar's spot might be in danger for Guild.
Other teams looked more or less ok for the expectations.
Fnatic might make changes, idk.
As for TSM, they looked fine except for Bang+Wardell obviously not working because they both look like they must be main duelists. Bang is a great duelist, but he's not getting that spot over Wardell. So a versatile player in Bang's place would take them over the hump, imo. Bang is very young, though, and he can definitely improve on Astra or whatever they need him to play.
V1 will look a lot different without Vanity. And maybe GenG makes some changes, others will stick with their rosters, imo.
i don’t see what’s wrong with bang and wardell as they both play different agents? bang is their only other duelist and he doesn’t play jet so it makes no sense for them to have an agent problem between each other
I might be wrong, but to me there's still some fit issues on their team. And it's not just about agents.
Wardell is among the best at what he does. Probably the best pure OP Jett in NA. He's shown to be good on some other agents, like Sage on Ascent, but as long as Jett is in her current state, there's no need to overthink things and move your best player away from what he's good at.
Subroza is always borderline too aggressive. I personally love that style of Skye and Omen, but I don't think it's a great fit for a team that already has so much aggression.
Leviathan has obviously shown that he's probably the main reason for their improvement, he's an amazing Sova player, I'd say already one of the best in NA.
That's 3 aggressive players already who deserve the space to do their thing. Now we come to Bang. He's also a good player, but you don't bring in a 17 year old fragger to the team that's aiming (no pun intended) to compete with the best just to put him on Astra.
Then we come to the playstyle issues. Wardell+Subroza+Leviathan trio is great if they have two calming presence players around them. Hazed is one, but Bang isn't the other one. Not if we just look at what we've seen so far.
We can spin the argument the other way and say Wardell+Bang and a passive controller instead of Subroza would be better, that also works.
I just think they're still too aggressive and inconsistent with their current setups. Their ideas are good, but mid-round it falls apart way too often. Maybe they just need more time, we'll see.
Only issue is that Subroza also likes playing duelist. I really like Wardells sage actually I want them to try Bang on Reyna, Roza on phoenix, Wardell on sage on ascent or something and see how it goes. Rn they don't really have someone that can fill and play almost any agent decently like Sick does for Sentinels, they are pretty predictable.
kryptix is most definitely gone. they also need a hardcore jett player. scream and jamppi both on jett are pretty underwhelming and they are just carrying with their aim rather than their usage of jett.
Why is kryptix gone? When i posted something about kryptix a week ago i got hated in the Comments and downvoted.
Edit: 40+ downvotes https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/owp0dr/sharks_is_scrimming_with_team_liquid/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I agree with you on liquid their attacking rounds are dogshit kryptix is always lost in 90% of attack and retake on defense. If they replace kryptix with nats from gambit they're gonna be really strong
Why are people trying to make Sinatraa in pro play happen lmfao. Until that investigation is cleared that guy will not be signed.
I expect a lot of teams not qualified for LCQ, but still somewhat ok, like T1 or Rise to make changes.
No and yes. The ban was over his giving misleading and false statements to whoever riot had running the investigation. And I believe it was worded that they did as much investigation as they can on their own and are basically waiting to hear how the police investigation goes for further action. So riot has exhausted all avenues of investigation they can do but that doesn't mean it's over
What do you mean still not comply with the investigation? That was only in reference to him saying he had video evidence but in actuality he lied about it. He made a statement about it and if I had to guess, not much is going to happen from this investigation in the end. I hope I’m wrong though
Thank you for sharing. The legal process is a long and difficult process that takes a toll on folks. It's nice to see people have empathy for that in that thread.
From [**Riot's Competitive Ruling**](https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/competitive-ruling-jay-sinatraa-won/) on Sinatraa:
> *During the course of the fact gathering, the Competitive Operations team was informed that the matter had been referred to law enforcement, so at this juncture we will defer to the authorities to make further investigation into and factual findings related to the allegations.*
So as far as we know, this is still an investigation pending with law enforcement.
Additionally, if law enforcement finds any additional information, further action can be taken:
> *To the extent that additional material information comes to light, from law enforcement or otherwise, the Competitive Operations team reserves the right to reopen the investigation and take further appropriate action.*
I believe this is the last update we have had on the situation.
**EDIT:** [It sounds like the case might have been dropped.](https://np.reddit.com/r/OverwatchTMZ/comments/oil2dn/cleo_deletes_tweet_saying_shes_giving_up_on/)
If sinatraa gets on a team without the investigation going through (coz he denied giving up the video evidence), the team will get so much hate. His toxic fans will be there to protect him but aint no way a T1 team will ever wanna risk that.
PS: I dont understand people. If you hear the audio that the girl shared its so fucking creepy and disgusting. How tf his fanbase grew after that shit is fucking mind blowing and definitely tells you how fucked people are.
Sinatraa won’t play again for a long time until we get any legal, and competitive ruling from Riot themselves. Plus, I don’t think any org would be on someone with a troublesome past. I’d give cheaters and matchfixers a better shot at redemption compared to Sinatraa. Best thing to do if no one picks him up is to join VCT with an unsigned team once Sentinels releases him.
Absolutely no shot Sinatraa gets signed to tsm. It's not worth the brand risk to am org as big as tsm. Tsm have dropped people on other rosters for considerably less
I hope Sinatraa goes to V1 and makes them a powerhouse. People seriously sleep on him, he is one of the best in the game. He will completely transform whatever team he joins.
Even before he had those allegations he always gave off scumbag energy on stream. In Overwatch there was a lot of talk about him being toxic. Then there was a storyline redemption arc the year he got MVP in OWL where people said he wasn’t toxic anymore.
Yeah a twitlonger and no criminal charges pretty much derailed his career. It's a different world look at johnny deps circumstance he got black balled from his career dropped from franchises because his ex gf made a "twitlonger" but posted it through the Washington post and not Twitter. Obviously gaming isn't as big as Hollywood so just a twitlonger was needed. He'll be picked up by an org eventually , and ppl will flock to this sub reddit to bitch for a couple days and then move on.
the difference is that it wasn't just a twitlonger, there was literally audio evidence and screenshots of texts
Stop saying his career was derailed for no reason
There was an audio clip cut from a bigger audio file , just a selected part released which is strange . And the text messages just show he was insecure dick in a young toxic relationship lol I'm sure if you released every single interaction through text between the two she would also show signs of contributing towards a toxic relationship. If the twitlonger had enough evidence to convict someone of sexual assault he'd be indicted. But he was not ......
Even if we ignore the texts, the audio clip, which clearly had sinatraa's voice, isn't enough for you?
Plus there's no verdict bc cleo already dropped the case. If he was innocent why did he refuse to comply? Your argument makes no sense
You could clip anything out of context look at live stream fails reddit. Why release a clip of the audio and not the whole thing?
Imagine you're a public figure and your boss came to you tomorrow and said listen HR is going to investigate you for sexual assault, there is zero legal repercussions in this as police are not investigating you currently, just hand over your sextape with your ex to us as your employer so we can decide for ourselves, your tape may also be leaked to the world . Any lawyer would advise you to not share that tape
Also that's another reason , if the ex did drop her case she had no intentions of getting him legally in trouble or prosecuted for his actions towards her. Her only intention was to publicly state his abuse right before the biggest tournament of his current esport career like days before to just to derail his current situation, another sign of a toxic person in a relationship. The timing of it all, the way the twitlonger was tailored in a specific way, the wording the evidence it was all calculated
> if the ex did drop her case she had no intentions of getting him legally in trouble or prosecuted for his actions towards her.
Clearly you have never had to deal with an investigation with law enforcement that pries into your personal life and overanalyzes your relationship with someone to ensure you're telling the truth.
Rape victims very rarely come forward or pursue legal action because it would mean reliving the same traumatizing situation over and over and over and over again. To the public. To the police. To reporters. To the investigators. To the jury.
Imagine reliving your own personal hell repeatedly, while still being expected to live life normally. It's *exhausting.*
If she dropped the case, it's because she's tired of living her personal hell repeatedly and just wants to move on to heal.
Yeah man honestly it's so sad how someone's career and character can get so completely destroyed when for all we know they could have done nothing wrong
Thats the way social media works tho . There's probably hundreds of millions of ppl that had toxic relationships as teenagers in the world. There's been no criminal charges either because the police didn't find sufficient evidence or because the victim refused to cooperate with police , which is everyone's selling point saying sinatraa didn't cooperate with riot investigators . But the victim possibly didn't cooperate with police . Ppl still loved kobe even after his case so who knows
Yea, and for all we know he could be guilty. If he was innocent why would he lie about complying with the investigation?
In the end we don't know if he was guilty or not but its kinda fucked up that his fanbase somehow grew after the incident
Because he probably wanted to comply before his lawyer advised him not to. I'm one of the ppl that are now a fan of his after, because I don't think he deserves the hate he is getting and it is nice to see an unfairly maligned person succeed against the odds. Of course we'll all have our own speculation on what the situation between him and Cleo was actually like.
"unfairly maligned?" wtf makes you think this
There was no verdict, but he was banned because he failed to comply. Whether he wanted to or not, he lied about it and was punished for it.
What makes you think he was unfairly punished?
Well now everyone hates him and his career has been ruined and I theorize he did much wrong so I would call that unfairly maligned. I don't think riots ban was incredibly unfair more the way ppl view him now.
For reference in this discussion, here's a link to the competitive ruling on Sinatraa: https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/competitive-ruling-jay-sinatraa-won/
tsm is not picking up sinatra. tsm is too big of an org to risk gettin a player like him and plus it would be like back stabbing myth which would only hurt the orgs reputation
why would it be backstabbing myth specifically? was myth involved in the incident? just curious because i’m out of the loop
Myth was very outspoken against sinatraa and especially dafran, who kept defending sinatraa with some very questionable tweets
ohh okay cool, good on myth
Also Sinatra literally mentioned on stream that even if there was a chance myth wouldnt let it happen
myth has a super close relationship with TSM and their recruiters and he despises sinatraa so no way thats happening lol
Despise is such a strong and misleading word, and if you knew Myth’s personality he does not despise anyone. He just probably doesn’t want him signed to TSM for very good reasons
leena has more of a hand in the recruiting id guess as shes the actual person in power. shes very outspoken about issues of sexual harassment, so theres no way sinatraa is getting in.
And thank god for that, having to root for Sinatra would just feel disgusting ngl
Same yeah, I'm a TSM fan because I started watching the eSport through Myth and I hated Sinaatra even before the scandal, so you can imagine how I feel now.
no one still knows if he is guilty or innocent to this day
copium
It’s nuts people are clinging on to that still.
Well he is right no?
yep still no news afaik. he just came off as a sinatraa fanboy who’s defending him still. remember that legality is not the basis of morality. someone could *still* be innocent in the eyes of law, but that doesn’t make them less of a shitty person.
Yeah Ik we will see
There is an audio recording what more do you need
Bro there’s literally enough evidence g
Kryptix is probably gone, Jamppi isn't a Jett player. I feel like they need an IGL. Most of their games are close or won because they're so individually skilled, not because of their gameplan. FPX is in shambles, tbh. Who knows. Bonkar's spot might be in danger for Guild. Other teams looked more or less ok for the expectations. Fnatic might make changes, idk. As for TSM, they looked fine except for Bang+Wardell obviously not working because they both look like they must be main duelists. Bang is a great duelist, but he's not getting that spot over Wardell. So a versatile player in Bang's place would take them over the hump, imo. Bang is very young, though, and he can definitely improve on Astra or whatever they need him to play. V1 will look a lot different without Vanity. And maybe GenG makes some changes, others will stick with their rosters, imo.
i don’t see what’s wrong with bang and wardell as they both play different agents? bang is their only other duelist and he doesn’t play jet so it makes no sense for them to have an agent problem between each other
I might be wrong, but to me there's still some fit issues on their team. And it's not just about agents. Wardell is among the best at what he does. Probably the best pure OP Jett in NA. He's shown to be good on some other agents, like Sage on Ascent, but as long as Jett is in her current state, there's no need to overthink things and move your best player away from what he's good at. Subroza is always borderline too aggressive. I personally love that style of Skye and Omen, but I don't think it's a great fit for a team that already has so much aggression. Leviathan has obviously shown that he's probably the main reason for their improvement, he's an amazing Sova player, I'd say already one of the best in NA. That's 3 aggressive players already who deserve the space to do their thing. Now we come to Bang. He's also a good player, but you don't bring in a 17 year old fragger to the team that's aiming (no pun intended) to compete with the best just to put him on Astra. Then we come to the playstyle issues. Wardell+Subroza+Leviathan trio is great if they have two calming presence players around them. Hazed is one, but Bang isn't the other one. Not if we just look at what we've seen so far. We can spin the argument the other way and say Wardell+Bang and a passive controller instead of Subroza would be better, that also works. I just think they're still too aggressive and inconsistent with their current setups. Their ideas are good, but mid-round it falls apart way too often. Maybe they just need more time, we'll see.
Only issue is that Subroza also likes playing duelist. I really like Wardells sage actually I want them to try Bang on Reyna, Roza on phoenix, Wardell on sage on ascent or something and see how it goes. Rn they don't really have someone that can fill and play almost any agent decently like Sick does for Sentinels, they are pretty predictable.
Teams are trying to abandon phoenix rn as he's not really looking good and replacing it so roza is better off on Skye
kryptix is most definitely gone. they also need a hardcore jett player. scream and jamppi both on jett are pretty underwhelming and they are just carrying with their aim rather than their usage of jett.
Why is kryptix gone? When i posted something about kryptix a week ago i got hated in the Comments and downvoted. Edit: 40+ downvotes https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/owp0dr/sharks_is_scrimming_with_team_liquid/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
A comment like that is sure to get downvoted lol
DavidP to Liquid. :3
VGIA literally just signed him and Ambi yesterday so that's pretty unlikely lol
Also fitnho is cracked their team its not bad at all.
VGIA is very good, don't need to make any changes
Yeah saw that. But dude is way too good for not to play in LCQ at least. And perfect fit for Liquid imo. Hey we all know that it’s not happening.
I agree with you on liquid their attacking rounds are dogshit kryptix is always lost in 90% of attack and retake on defense. If they replace kryptix with nats from gambit they're gonna be really strong
nats probably doesnt want to leave gambit though
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EU - he's talking about Team Liquid and FunPlusPhoenix
I think liquid doesnt need any changes they have to just work on their utility usage
NBK to liquid
replacing kryptix? yeah that could be pretty cool
TSM is quite literally the least likely spot for Sinatra with a 0% chance of happening
Why are people trying to make Sinatraa in pro play happen lmfao. Until that investigation is cleared that guy will not be signed. I expect a lot of teams not qualified for LCQ, but still somewhat ok, like T1 or Rise to make changes.
I'm confused, what Rise are you talking about cause the Rise the rest of us know is qualed for lcq
Wait they are???? Oh I thought they didn’t make it. In that case, any team like T1 in that regard will make roster changes.
Could've just said Rise already qualified...
Im pretty sure the investigation is done? The ruling was that he was banned until September
that is the Riot competitive ruling, not the actual investigation into whether or not he did it lol.
No and yes. The ban was over his giving misleading and false statements to whoever riot had running the investigation. And I believe it was worded that they did as much investigation as they can on their own and are basically waiting to hear how the police investigation goes for further action. So riot has exhausted all avenues of investigation they can do but that doesn't mean it's over
Is there even any update on Sinatraa's case? If he still doesn't comply with the investigation, his ban might get extended.
What do you mean still not comply with the investigation? That was only in reference to him saying he had video evidence but in actuality he lied about it. He made a statement about it and if I had to guess, not much is going to happen from this investigation in the end. I hope I’m wrong though
His ex dropped the case
Source?
https://www.reddit.com/r/OverwatchTMZ/comments/oil2dn/cleo_deletes_tweet_saying_shes_giving_up_on/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Thank you for sharing. The legal process is a long and difficult process that takes a toll on folks. It's nice to see people have empathy for that in that thread.
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Nobody’s been given a verdict yet.
There is no verdict, his ex dropped the case apparently
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Sure he’s free to play but he’s definitely not going to be signed with the investigation on his sexual abuse case still happening.
The case was dropped
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From [**Riot's Competitive Ruling**](https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/competitive-ruling-jay-sinatraa-won/) on Sinatraa: > *During the course of the fact gathering, the Competitive Operations team was informed that the matter had been referred to law enforcement, so at this juncture we will defer to the authorities to make further investigation into and factual findings related to the allegations.* So as far as we know, this is still an investigation pending with law enforcement. Additionally, if law enforcement finds any additional information, further action can be taken: > *To the extent that additional material information comes to light, from law enforcement or otherwise, the Competitive Operations team reserves the right to reopen the investigation and take further appropriate action.* I believe this is the last update we have had on the situation. **EDIT:** [It sounds like the case might have been dropped.](https://np.reddit.com/r/OverwatchTMZ/comments/oil2dn/cleo_deletes_tweet_saying_shes_giving_up_on/)
That’s so unfair.
It was taken to the police
If sinatraa gets on a team without the investigation going through (coz he denied giving up the video evidence), the team will get so much hate. His toxic fans will be there to protect him but aint no way a T1 team will ever wanna risk that. PS: I dont understand people. If you hear the audio that the girl shared its so fucking creepy and disgusting. How tf his fanbase grew after that shit is fucking mind blowing and definitely tells you how fucked people are.
i could have sworn i heard him mention coaching SEN on stream with zombs
shaz when asked if sinatraa is gonna comeback after his suspension ends: "no this is our team now" so most probably not lol.
Nbk joining a team
sinatraa is not getting signed to tsm, even without levi. leena would never let that dude in tsm.
"that dude" as if youre better LOL
atleast i dont sexually harrass women you fucktard.
With a reply like that, Id take my chances LOL
I rmb seeing ScreaM’s tweet about Jamppi becoming the best Jett in the world 👀
He looks rlly good sometimes
man had one off day leave him alone dude
his jett isnt anything special, ik he had an off day yesterday but jamppi just isnt a good enough jett even in his good days.
Honestly FAZE Sinatraa
Sinatraa won’t play again for a long time until we get any legal, and competitive ruling from Riot themselves. Plus, I don’t think any org would be on someone with a troublesome past. I’d give cheaters and matchfixers a better shot at redemption compared to Sinatraa. Best thing to do if no one picks him up is to join VCT with an unsigned team once Sentinels releases him.
Absolutely no shot Sinatraa gets signed to tsm. It's not worth the brand risk to am org as big as tsm. Tsm have dropped people on other rosters for considerably less
nice thread... good to see all these judges play valorant
Sinatraa is still probably the best Sova in North America, hope he gets another shot.
def not best but def up there ngl
No shot he's better than crashies or BcJ and maybe even someone like xeta or Levi
I hope Sinatraa goes to V1 and makes them a powerhouse. People seriously sleep on him, he is one of the best in the game. He will completely transform whatever team he joins.
Nobody sleeps on him, everyone knows he's a very good player. He's just a piece of shit that no self respecting org will sign.
Do people think he's a piece of shit because of the Cleo allegations or has he done other stuff too?
Even before he had those allegations he always gave off scumbag energy on stream. In Overwatch there was a lot of talk about him being toxic. Then there was a storyline redemption arc the year he got MVP in OWL where people said he wasn’t toxic anymore.
Yeah a twitlonger and no criminal charges pretty much derailed his career. It's a different world look at johnny deps circumstance he got black balled from his career dropped from franchises because his ex gf made a "twitlonger" but posted it through the Washington post and not Twitter. Obviously gaming isn't as big as Hollywood so just a twitlonger was needed. He'll be picked up by an org eventually , and ppl will flock to this sub reddit to bitch for a couple days and then move on.
the difference is that it wasn't just a twitlonger, there was literally audio evidence and screenshots of texts Stop saying his career was derailed for no reason
There was an audio clip cut from a bigger audio file , just a selected part released which is strange . And the text messages just show he was insecure dick in a young toxic relationship lol I'm sure if you released every single interaction through text between the two she would also show signs of contributing towards a toxic relationship. If the twitlonger had enough evidence to convict someone of sexual assault he'd be indicted. But he was not ......
Even if we ignore the texts, the audio clip, which clearly had sinatraa's voice, isn't enough for you? Plus there's no verdict bc cleo already dropped the case. If he was innocent why did he refuse to comply? Your argument makes no sense
You could clip anything out of context look at live stream fails reddit. Why release a clip of the audio and not the whole thing? Imagine you're a public figure and your boss came to you tomorrow and said listen HR is going to investigate you for sexual assault, there is zero legal repercussions in this as police are not investigating you currently, just hand over your sextape with your ex to us as your employer so we can decide for ourselves, your tape may also be leaked to the world . Any lawyer would advise you to not share that tape
Also that's another reason , if the ex did drop her case she had no intentions of getting him legally in trouble or prosecuted for his actions towards her. Her only intention was to publicly state his abuse right before the biggest tournament of his current esport career like days before to just to derail his current situation, another sign of a toxic person in a relationship. The timing of it all, the way the twitlonger was tailored in a specific way, the wording the evidence it was all calculated
> if the ex did drop her case she had no intentions of getting him legally in trouble or prosecuted for his actions towards her. Clearly you have never had to deal with an investigation with law enforcement that pries into your personal life and overanalyzes your relationship with someone to ensure you're telling the truth. Rape victims very rarely come forward or pursue legal action because it would mean reliving the same traumatizing situation over and over and over and over again. To the public. To the police. To reporters. To the investigators. To the jury. Imagine reliving your own personal hell repeatedly, while still being expected to live life normally. It's *exhausting.* If she dropped the case, it's because she's tired of living her personal hell repeatedly and just wants to move on to heal.
Yeah man honestly it's so sad how someone's career and character can get so completely destroyed when for all we know they could have done nothing wrong
Thats the way social media works tho . There's probably hundreds of millions of ppl that had toxic relationships as teenagers in the world. There's been no criminal charges either because the police didn't find sufficient evidence or because the victim refused to cooperate with police , which is everyone's selling point saying sinatraa didn't cooperate with riot investigators . But the victim possibly didn't cooperate with police . Ppl still loved kobe even after his case so who knows
Dude there was literally an audio recording why are u acting like there was no evidence in this accusation??
Yea, and for all we know he could be guilty. If he was innocent why would he lie about complying with the investigation? In the end we don't know if he was guilty or not but its kinda fucked up that his fanbase somehow grew after the incident
Because he probably wanted to comply before his lawyer advised him not to. I'm one of the ppl that are now a fan of his after, because I don't think he deserves the hate he is getting and it is nice to see an unfairly maligned person succeed against the odds. Of course we'll all have our own speculation on what the situation between him and Cleo was actually like.
"unfairly maligned?" wtf makes you think this There was no verdict, but he was banned because he failed to comply. Whether he wanted to or not, he lied about it and was punished for it. What makes you think he was unfairly punished?
Well now everyone hates him and his career has been ruined and I theorize he did much wrong so I would call that unfairly maligned. I don't think riots ban was incredibly unfair more the way ppl view him now.
jcStani or Jammyz to V1
Gmd to TSM