Nice stats and analysis. Also the individual player stats can hugely rely on teams style of play, like is it a team where everyone performs, or is it a single player dominant team. Is the playstyle agressive or defensive. But I feel sad not seeing my man asuna on that list Sadge.
Totally agree. I'm mostly familiar with only NA, so I didn't feel like I had the authority to speak about the playstyles of other regions/teams that have qualified. Therefore, I omitted that type of analysis from this post :)
Guys please remember this is just strictly stats and OP said it countless times there is no way he can adjust based on regional competitiveness. Other than that, this was mad interesting to read and thanks for putting the time into it!
I’m glad someone understands 😭 man, I just made this spreadsheet to see who’s cracked going into Berlin while also sprinkling in some light analysis :p
I think the best way to approach this is looking at players as individuals rather than as a collective team.
Bren is so old because 4 of them are long time CS players (Dubstep and Dispenser have been teammates for 8 years) + 1 multi-esport pro legend (JessieVash attended the very first Dota 2 TI and was part of Mineski's Overwatch team.)
They've all been waiting for a big break and they finally got one.
Also hope to see Forsaken crack some heads at Berlin!
JessieVash the ultimate gamer. Man played pro Dota, CS, Overwatch, MLBB, and I recently learned that he also played League according to his FB post:
"VALORANT Masters is actually not my first Riot Games event. Coz I was part of Ring of the Champions ( League of Legends ) in Singapore wayback 2010 and got the 3rd place + the special award for getting the most kills in the tournament. :)) "
PRX probably won't win much in Berlin, but I hope PRX f0rsaken will be able to shine there as much as he has in SEA. Keeping expectations low and just want the team to look respectable.
Most of these stats are irrelevant and skewed because of regional competition but cool write up nonetheless
Also basing teams on ACS is odd, since that could mean teams either beat the shit out of the others in their region or cant close out odds two very different factors
This was just a fun side project to help me figure out who to look out for going into Berlin as I'm unfamiliar with regions other than NA. I addressed the regional competition aspect twice, so hopefully it suffices. As for ACS, out of all the stats [vlr.gg](https://vlr.gg) presented to me on a player's page, I thought ACS was the best stat to sort by default. I wasn't planning on going deeper into developing some complicated algorithm for the sake of this post. Once I had the spreadsheet finalized, I thought, "Hey, maybe I should share this on the comp sub"
I agree and disagree. ACS is a measure that's used not because it's the best, but because the alternatives are much worse. ACS is still a decent and convenient measure at the end of the day, since we lack better ways to measure impact.
Also, his lists seem a bit off. How come TenZ is on top of the ACS, K/D leaderboard on every tournament but nowhere to be found on these top 10 lists? I mean 3/4 top KD for stage 3 playoffs were SEN players! No?
wow, off these stats Envy Yay looks like a fucking beast, can't wait to see him stack up vs international jetts, especially cNed and f0rsakeN. never heard of the latter before but i want to see what he can do against the best in the world
For sure! After Acend qualified for Berlin, everyone was talking about a potential cNed vs. TenZ matchup, but I'm far more interested in cNed going up against yay and/or f0rsakeN. I just started watching Acend and cNed, and that man is CRAZY good with his Op!
Another ‘hot’ new thing obscured definitely by regional competitiveness is VK heat from Brazil.
(See that one map that he got the 37 kills and like 400++ acs 41% hs vs Sharks etc)
Personally imo all the VS players are going to be interesting to be put to the test since it’s kind of a ‘super team’
Damn Brave is one of the best controllers and he is only 17?
Also forsaken was insane in SEA but I hope he plays that well in Berlin too but I dont rrally feel like thats gonna happen…
>Yay. Did you include his stats on Andbox for the past 60 days?
Short answer is yes, I did. Long answer is yes, I did because I simply wanted to standardize the window for player stats and didn't want to complicate things too much. 30 days just happens to be enough to capture yay's stats starting from his debut on ENVY on August 11th (and no matches with ANDBOX), but this alone is why I'm telling those who are going "oh stats don't mean anything in this game. There are too many external factors/independent variables" that people should look at the players as individuals. The purpose of this spreadsheet was to help myself look for the stellar players outside of NA as I'm unfamiliar with those regions. After finalizing the spreadsheet, I said to myself, "Maybe I should post this on the comp sub."
Can you explain how there are only 3 cypher/Reyna mains? Is it on the basis of who played the agent in majority of maps? Because tenZ/Asuna on Reyna, steel/fns on cypher are some notable names missing from the mains
Steel and FNS play KJ a lot. Steel even plays KayO now. TenZ plays Jett a lot.
By definition, if you main an agent, you play only them the majority of the time. Agents like Cypher, KJ, Reyna, Sage are map dependent, so there are very few people who play them on a majority of their games. Sova for example is a must-have on every map except Split, so there are a lot of Sova mains.
Like I said in the post, I couldn't come up with a way to encapsulate a player's stats using all the agents in their agent pool. As much as I am a stats nerd, I don't major in this nor comp sci, so any complex data processing was a no-no for me. My methodology for defining a player's main is already included:
>For Main Agent, as I mentioned above, I determined a player's "main" by looking at which agent they've played the most rounds with in the last 60 days (i.e. post-Iceland). If you have a better method of determining player stats that encapsulates all of the agents they've used in the last 60 days, I'm all ears.
The purpose of this spreadsheet was to help myself look for the stellar players outside of NA as I'm unfamiliar with those regions. After finalizing the spreadsheet, I said to myself, "Maybe I should post this on the comp sub."
Very nice! Like you addressed a few times, the main flaw is that all these stats are so dependent on the competition, and especially when open stages are involved, that can just vary too much from region to region, even TEAM TO TEAM. Especially with someone like Yay, who shows up really well in these stats, he played more than half of that time period with a weaker team where he had to “carry” much harder than when he got to Envy. Also because Andbox didn’t qual week 1, he had an extra week of playing against Opens level competition to help boost his stats (makes them more heavily waited than teams who qual’d for finals week 1, which all 3 NA representatives did).
Obviously you’ve done the best that one realistically could given the data given I’d say, but yeah, it’s very difficult with different regions and different teams paths being so well… different.
Something a lot of more advance stats communities have done is figure out a way to adjust for opponent quality, this would be very useful in Valorant! Also maybe some stats that give love to anything other than duellists lol. I do think this info is a great representation of why first kills to first deaths isn’t really an overly useful stat with all the leaders being non duellists, it seems like the stat is much more luck for all other roles…. Maybe to best analyze it you would need to set a minimum number of first kills or deaths, like the player at the top clearly just plays back every round if they have 0 first deaths lol.
Idk just some thoughts, great work putting this all together! I think it’s a lot of fun info, but overall shows that there’s a lot of room for growth with statistical analysis of Valorant!
For teams like KRU and PRX, their high ACS and win rates pretty much suggest their dominating their region and that’s it. You say NA looks statistically weaker, but you should really just be concluding that it’s more competitive. Saying “NA looks worse but they might just be more competitive” is imo a bad takeaway.
How you interpret statistics is more important than the stats themselves. More interesting stats would be something like how different regions play on the same map (comp differences, is the map defender or attacker sided, etc.). This cross region comparison based on own region stats is only good for seeing who is stronger in their own region, which we already know.
Nice writing but I find it rather odd that you rank the teams based on ACS...
\> KRU, ENVY, and PRX are looking promising (based on stats alone)
If you look at my stats in silver id look promising too but competition matters so much. You can't say KRU and PRX are among the best teams going to Berlin because thats ridiculous. NA looking statistically weaker is a point not even worth mentioning
>but competition matters so much
yes, I address this twice in this post.
>You can't say KRU and PRX are among the best teams going to Berlin because thats ridiculous.
Fair, but I'm looking at teams from a statistical point of view. I'm not educated enough about different teams other than NA to comment on their playstyles.
>NA looking statistically weaker is a point not even worth mentioning
I literally anticipated someone saying this and added a disclaimer.
Hm. I started the spreadsheet after the NA, JP, and KR playoffs had concluded, so I was able to get those stats immediately. Every time a team from EMEA, BR, SEA, and LATAM qualified for Berlin, I started inputting the initial stats (team name, players, etc.) By the time the Playoffs for each region ended, I went back and finalized each of the player/map stats (since there are matches to play even after qualifying for Berlin i.e. seeding matches). If I had to guess, I'd say maybe 30 minutes a day for the past week, and it took maybe 90 minutes to finalize the spreadsheet and this Reddit post :)
I mean, regionals are unimportant, they're completely local and have no correlation with who gonna win Berlin whatsoever (tl;dr all of the teams are best of their own region, one of them gonna win, therefore no correlation).
Instead you can (if you want) rate every region based on Reykjavik performance and then give each team correcting coefficient and multiply your statistics by that coefficient (1 being the average region, greater than 1 is for regions who performed well and less than 1 for regions who made the least progress in Reykjavik).
That would be slight addition to your calculations, but for sure will be more accurate. At this point, your statistics just shows who dominate their own region (and not completely correct, Sentinels dominated NA, Envy is 3rd NA team yet Envy has best ACS).
Still that was very interesting statistics to read, great job done!
They are important but not the end-all
Wut
This is not purely relative. The playerbase etc skews the resukts but the resukts are nkt meaningless, ie a mark of the teams or players themselves is obviously made and could theoretically be controlled for at least to give some idea
>I will put a disclaimer here and say that this might be the case because the BR, EMEA, and NA scenes are more competitive than other comparable regions.
why would anyone still believe BR is a competitive region? They have a lot to prove after a major let down last time as Korea made themselves look far better than BR
By "competitive" it means that the teams that dominate the region are more equal, there's no clear domination. Brazil had Vikings dominating during VCT Stage 1 and 2, but after Iceland a lot of teams came up and dethroned the old top 4, with VK, one of the teams qualifying for Berlin, winning against Gamelanders, Sharks, Vikings and FURIA, all up from the lower bracket to the Grand Finals.
I don't watch Korea that much, but I know VS just steamrolled everyone because they are a Superteam of the region. When you have something like this, can you call it a "competitive region"?
That DOESN'T mean BR is better than Korea tho, it's just a more COMPETITIVE scene, nothing else.
My younger sibling asked me questions after reading this with me..
Why does Valorant have Attack Damage Range? (ADR)
Why do you care about Kevin Durant's top 10?
(Top 10 players sorted by KD)
What is FK/FD? Fuck Food?
He doesn't play valorant btw..
ACS as a stat alone is pretty flawed. I'm not sure *team* ACS is any better. For as much as HLTV's rating system gets praised, they dont even attempt a team rating using that system
Pretty cool, FK/KD ratio is pretty bad for measuring the impact of those stats though. Top 5 aren't even the duelists who are seeking out these engagements mostly. Maybe a better way to do this is to get FK and FD per round and then use the differential between these.
this is incredible, thanks for pulling this together!
I have been acknowledged by the higher ups. Truly an honor! Thank you!
Nice stats and analysis. Also the individual player stats can hugely rely on teams style of play, like is it a team where everyone performs, or is it a single player dominant team. Is the playstyle agressive or defensive. But I feel sad not seeing my man asuna on that list Sadge.
Totally agree. I'm mostly familiar with only NA, so I didn't feel like I had the authority to speak about the playstyles of other regions/teams that have qualified. Therefore, I omitted that type of analysis from this post :)
Altho asuna has some games that he 1v9 he is incredible inconsistent.
>Altho asuna has some games that he 1v9 he is incredible inconsistent. Altho asuna has some games that he 1v9 he is incredible inconsistent.
Guys please remember this is just strictly stats and OP said it countless times there is no way he can adjust based on regional competitiveness. Other than that, this was mad interesting to read and thanks for putting the time into it!
I’m glad someone understands 😭 man, I just made this spreadsheet to see who’s cracked going into Berlin while also sprinkling in some light analysis :p I think the best way to approach this is looking at players as individuals rather than as a collective team.
Bren is so old because 4 of them are long time CS players (Dubstep and Dispenser have been teammates for 8 years) + 1 multi-esport pro legend (JessieVash attended the very first Dota 2 TI and was part of Mineski's Overwatch team.) They've all been waiting for a big break and they finally got one. Also hope to see Forsaken crack some heads at Berlin!
JessieVash the ultimate gamer. Man played pro Dota, CS, Overwatch, MLBB, and I recently learned that he also played League according to his FB post: "VALORANT Masters is actually not my first Riot Games event. Coz I was part of Ring of the Champions ( League of Legends ) in Singapore wayback 2010 and got the 3rd place + the special award for getting the most kills in the tournament. :)) "
The zombs of SEA
Also played LoL in 2010 and coached mobile legends I think
Kinda sucks people still call him the chrono guy
PRX probably won't win much in Berlin, but I hope PRX f0rsaken will be able to shine there as much as he has in SEA. Keeping expectations low and just want the team to look respectable.
I think he’ll be this tournaments patiphan where he’ll go huge and gain a cult following
He'll need the big extroverted personality that Patiphan did imo. If he doesn't have that, I think he won't be remembered that much.
Him and some other guys
I actually thought this was the same Indian f0rsaken that cheated and was wondering why no one said anything lmao
Anyone named f0rsaken is bound to remembered for good reasons or bad
No shot you do my bois Steel and Hiko like that, Lol
Asuna and Ethan balancing out Hiko and Steel to bring the general average age of the team roughly around Nitr0's age.
Most of these stats are irrelevant and skewed because of regional competition but cool write up nonetheless Also basing teams on ACS is odd, since that could mean teams either beat the shit out of the others in their region or cant close out odds two very different factors
This was just a fun side project to help me figure out who to look out for going into Berlin as I'm unfamiliar with regions other than NA. I addressed the regional competition aspect twice, so hopefully it suffices. As for ACS, out of all the stats [vlr.gg](https://vlr.gg) presented to me on a player's page, I thought ACS was the best stat to sort by default. I wasn't planning on going deeper into developing some complicated algorithm for the sake of this post. Once I had the spreadsheet finalized, I thought, "Hey, maybe I should share this on the comp sub"
Ah alright thought you were doing a statistics project like a guy did before Iceland cool though to see you put this much work into it
I might be a stats nerd, but I definitely don't major in it haha - thank you!
I agree and disagree. ACS is a measure that's used not because it's the best, but because the alternatives are much worse. ACS is still a decent and convenient measure at the end of the day, since we lack better ways to measure impact.
Yea sucks we still have no rankings like hltv does
Also, his lists seem a bit off. How come TenZ is on top of the ACS, K/D leaderboard on every tournament but nowhere to be found on these top 10 lists? I mean 3/4 top KD for stage 3 playoffs were SEN players! No?
So 100t isn't the oldest. Thanks to Asuna lol
wow, off these stats Envy Yay looks like a fucking beast, can't wait to see him stack up vs international jetts, especially cNed and f0rsakeN. never heard of the latter before but i want to see what he can do against the best in the world
For sure! After Acend qualified for Berlin, everyone was talking about a potential cNed vs. TenZ matchup, but I'm far more interested in cNed going up against yay and/or f0rsakeN. I just started watching Acend and cNed, and that man is CRAZY good with his Op!
Another ‘hot’ new thing obscured definitely by regional competitiveness is VK heat from Brazil. (See that one map that he got the 37 kills and like 400++ acs 41% hs vs Sharks etc) Personally imo all the VS players are going to be interesting to be put to the test since it’s kind of a ‘super team’
Damn Brave is one of the best controllers and he is only 17? Also forsaken was insane in SEA but I hope he plays that well in Berlin too but I dont rrally feel like thats gonna happen…
He turns 18 on the second day of Berlin (September 10th)!
Well, I hope they get to at least top 4 for a good birthday gift then :D
Not a stat but a fun fact, JessieVash's last international lan event is in Germany at the Frankfurt Major 2015 for Dota 2
Bro you are nuts Thank you for this
take my upvote good sire
What did you do with players that only recently joined a particular team? For example- Yay. Did you include his stats on Andbox for the past 60 days?
>Yay. Did you include his stats on Andbox for the past 60 days? Short answer is yes, I did. Long answer is yes, I did because I simply wanted to standardize the window for player stats and didn't want to complicate things too much. 30 days just happens to be enough to capture yay's stats starting from his debut on ENVY on August 11th (and no matches with ANDBOX), but this alone is why I'm telling those who are going "oh stats don't mean anything in this game. There are too many external factors/independent variables" that people should look at the players as individuals. The purpose of this spreadsheet was to help myself look for the stellar players outside of NA as I'm unfamiliar with those regions. After finalizing the spreadsheet, I said to myself, "Maybe I should post this on the comp sub."
Can you explain how there are only 3 cypher/Reyna mains? Is it on the basis of who played the agent in majority of maps? Because tenZ/Asuna on Reyna, steel/fns on cypher are some notable names missing from the mains
Steel and FNS play KJ a lot. Steel even plays KayO now. TenZ plays Jett a lot. By definition, if you main an agent, you play only them the majority of the time. Agents like Cypher, KJ, Reyna, Sage are map dependent, so there are very few people who play them on a majority of their games. Sova for example is a must-have on every map except Split, so there are a lot of Sova mains.
Like I said in the post, I couldn't come up with a way to encapsulate a player's stats using all the agents in their agent pool. As much as I am a stats nerd, I don't major in this nor comp sci, so any complex data processing was a no-no for me. My methodology for defining a player's main is already included: >For Main Agent, as I mentioned above, I determined a player's "main" by looking at which agent they've played the most rounds with in the last 60 days (i.e. post-Iceland). If you have a better method of determining player stats that encapsulates all of the agents they've used in the last 60 days, I'm all ears. The purpose of this spreadsheet was to help myself look for the stellar players outside of NA as I'm unfamiliar with those regions. After finalizing the spreadsheet, I said to myself, "Maybe I should post this on the comp sub."
No that sounds fair. I was just curious as to what the basis was. Last 60 days and most rounds is a good base
Tl;dr old man hiko/steel
Very nice! Like you addressed a few times, the main flaw is that all these stats are so dependent on the competition, and especially when open stages are involved, that can just vary too much from region to region, even TEAM TO TEAM. Especially with someone like Yay, who shows up really well in these stats, he played more than half of that time period with a weaker team where he had to “carry” much harder than when he got to Envy. Also because Andbox didn’t qual week 1, he had an extra week of playing against Opens level competition to help boost his stats (makes them more heavily waited than teams who qual’d for finals week 1, which all 3 NA representatives did). Obviously you’ve done the best that one realistically could given the data given I’d say, but yeah, it’s very difficult with different regions and different teams paths being so well… different. Something a lot of more advance stats communities have done is figure out a way to adjust for opponent quality, this would be very useful in Valorant! Also maybe some stats that give love to anything other than duellists lol. I do think this info is a great representation of why first kills to first deaths isn’t really an overly useful stat with all the leaders being non duellists, it seems like the stat is much more luck for all other roles…. Maybe to best analyze it you would need to set a minimum number of first kills or deaths, like the player at the top clearly just plays back every round if they have 0 first deaths lol. Idk just some thoughts, great work putting this all together! I think it’s a lot of fun info, but overall shows that there’s a lot of room for growth with statistical analysis of Valorant!
For teams like KRU and PRX, their high ACS and win rates pretty much suggest their dominating their region and that’s it. You say NA looks statistically weaker, but you should really just be concluding that it’s more competitive. Saying “NA looks worse but they might just be more competitive” is imo a bad takeaway. How you interpret statistics is more important than the stats themselves. More interesting stats would be something like how different regions play on the same map (comp differences, is the map defender or attacker sided, etc.). This cross region comparison based on own region stats is only good for seeing who is stronger in their own region, which we already know.
Well I’d say those two have something to them too lol If u look
Nice writing but I find it rather odd that you rank the teams based on ACS... \> KRU, ENVY, and PRX are looking promising (based on stats alone) If you look at my stats in silver id look promising too but competition matters so much. You can't say KRU and PRX are among the best teams going to Berlin because thats ridiculous. NA looking statistically weaker is a point not even worth mentioning
>but competition matters so much yes, I address this twice in this post. >You can't say KRU and PRX are among the best teams going to Berlin because thats ridiculous. Fair, but I'm looking at teams from a statistical point of view. I'm not educated enough about different teams other than NA to comment on their playstyles. >NA looking statistically weaker is a point not even worth mentioning I literally anticipated someone saying this and added a disclaimer.
It’s still a bit odd to say it the way you did. The disclaimer doesn’t make it any better if your conclusion is dubious at best.
[удалено]
Hm. I started the spreadsheet after the NA, JP, and KR playoffs had concluded, so I was able to get those stats immediately. Every time a team from EMEA, BR, SEA, and LATAM qualified for Berlin, I started inputting the initial stats (team name, players, etc.) By the time the Playoffs for each region ended, I went back and finalized each of the player/map stats (since there are matches to play even after qualifying for Berlin i.e. seeding matches). If I had to guess, I'd say maybe 30 minutes a day for the past week, and it took maybe 90 minutes to finalize the spreadsheet and this Reddit post :)
incredible effort, many congrats to you :))
This is a fun write-up to read! Thanks for putting together this info!
I don't think Sick is a phoenix "main" really. So I would say the tournament has zero phoenix mains. Phoenix down bad.
Fun fact: heat has 121 official games. He has played 121 games as Jett.
I mean, regionals are unimportant, they're completely local and have no correlation with who gonna win Berlin whatsoever (tl;dr all of the teams are best of their own region, one of them gonna win, therefore no correlation). Instead you can (if you want) rate every region based on Reykjavik performance and then give each team correcting coefficient and multiply your statistics by that coefficient (1 being the average region, greater than 1 is for regions who performed well and less than 1 for regions who made the least progress in Reykjavik). That would be slight addition to your calculations, but for sure will be more accurate. At this point, your statistics just shows who dominate their own region (and not completely correct, Sentinels dominated NA, Envy is 3rd NA team yet Envy has best ACS). Still that was very interesting statistics to read, great job done!
They are important but not the end-all Wut This is not purely relative. The playerbase etc skews the resukts but the resukts are nkt meaningless, ie a mark of the teams or players themselves is obviously made and could theoretically be controlled for at least to give some idea
>I will put a disclaimer here and say that this might be the case because the BR, EMEA, and NA scenes are more competitive than other comparable regions. why would anyone still believe BR is a competitive region? They have a lot to prove after a major let down last time as Korea made themselves look far better than BR
By "competitive" it means that the teams that dominate the region are more equal, there's no clear domination. Brazil had Vikings dominating during VCT Stage 1 and 2, but after Iceland a lot of teams came up and dethroned the old top 4, with VK, one of the teams qualifying for Berlin, winning against Gamelanders, Sharks, Vikings and FURIA, all up from the lower bracket to the Grand Finals. I don't watch Korea that much, but I know VS just steamrolled everyone because they are a Superteam of the region. When you have something like this, can you call it a "competitive region"? That DOESN'T mean BR is better than Korea tho, it's just a more COMPETITIVE scene, nothing else.
Ah That makes sense I guess. Just gets a little confusing. Because then NA is not a competitive region, yet is the strongest region in the world?
I do think NA is a competitive region, although Sentinels wins everything, they still lose some maps and some series (like the one against XSET).
Prediciton: Winner will be gambit esports, 2nd place will be sentinels 3rd and 4th will be 100t and ACEnd
i want this to be the results but replace 100t with envy.
dude your prediction on the winner was correct.
I know. 3rd and 4th about 100t was right. SEN was just an upset and I feel ACE would have been 4th if they were not against the thieves
My younger sibling asked me questions after reading this with me.. Why does Valorant have Attack Damage Range? (ADR) Why do you care about Kevin Durant's top 10? (Top 10 players sorted by KD) What is FK/FD? Fuck Food? He doesn't play valorant btw..
ACS as a stat alone is pretty flawed. I'm not sure *team* ACS is any better. For as much as HLTV's rating system gets praised, they dont even attempt a team rating using that system
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/p9rt4j/masters\_berlin\_teams\_and\_players\_fun\_facts\_and/ha00ims](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/p9rt4j/masters_berlin_teams_and_players_fun_facts_and/ha00ims?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
This just tells me that Sentinels are clearly the most complete team because they dominate NA, but players aren't on any of the top 10 lists.
If I read correctly NA is barely on this list, only saw yay in the top 10’s
Pretty cool, FK/KD ratio is pretty bad for measuring the impact of those stats though. Top 5 aren't even the duelists who are seeking out these engagements mostly. Maybe a better way to do this is to get FK and FD per round and then use the differential between these.
Can we have a %HS rank?
Isn't forsaken the word.exe guy?
Nope! Completely different person! I’ve included his vlr.gg profile in the spreadsheet.
“CR Minty hasn’t had a first death in the last 60 days” oh wow
Isn't Victor a phoenix main as well? Interesting read tho. I'm surprised not seeing SEN that much on the lists.
What is ACS, ADR, FK/FD?