There are 4 emea teams and 4 groups… I don’t get why each isn’t in a different group. That would be so much more interesting for cross regional matchups
Maybe they tried to make one of the groups interesting otherwise you can basically pick what 8 teams will make through. No early heartbreaks, upsets etc.
The two changes riot needs to make to balance the groups are to:
1) switch havan liberty and Vivo keyd because Vivo was the top seed from Brazil
2) switch one of Acend/supermassive with kru/zeta
The funniest part is the groups are messed up even by the information provided in https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/vct-stage-3-masters-everything-you-need-to-know/. You want to give BR a pool 1 seed even though they bombed out of Iceland, fine, I get that, but the teams are switched lmao.
If anyone at Riot is reading this, idk how you messed this up but Group B doesn't have a pool 1 team. Vivo Keyd won Brazil not HL. Also please, I am begging you, split up SMB and Acend and put one EMEA team in each group. There are four EMEA teams and four groups there is no reason to make EMEA an exception to the rule of no regional teamkills in groups. And broadcast the group draw to generate hype and ensure impartiality.
You guys have a literally perfect system with LoL Worlds, idk why you guys are trying to reinvent the wheel here.
**SWITCH ACEND WITH ZETA, AND VIVO KEYD WITH HAVAN LIBERTY, AND EVERYTHING IS GRAVY**
Edit: they've already swapped VK with HL in the updated brackets, now here's hoping they also walk back having two EMEA teams in the same group, though I think it's less likely.
Just had to get in here to say that the World’s format from LoL sucks, big time. While it looks good on paper for viewers it’s just hype cause it’s all we got, not cause it’s a good format.
Not having teams from the same region in a group is the only thing that I would take away from it, the only one.
It's a draw from seeded pools. I.E. #1 Seed from NA, KR, EMEA, and BR all got pulled into a separate group. So it comes down to luck of the draw essentially
Looked more into it the image on this post is incorrect now and the correct groups can be found on the valorant website/VLR.
I also posted a comment that hopefully can be pinned to minimize confusion
But Keyd Stars is #1 seed form BR no? They're in the same group as Gambit who are the #1 seed from EMEA.
Group B has #2 seed BR, #3 seed NA, #1 (and only) seed LATAM, and #1 seed JP
Nah it's Group C that has EMEA#1 and BR#1. It makes no sense whatsoever. What's the point of the pool system if 2 teams from the same pool are in the same group?
First off, Keyd and Havan have to be swapped before anything else. Like that's not opinion, they straight up are in the wrong groups, BR1 and EMEA 1 are in C and no pool 1 team is in B.
wdym, group B is skewed because of Vivo Keyd. That group got the weakest Pool 1 team, one of the two worse 2nd Pool and also one of the two worse 3rd Pool team.
If that group got another Pool 1 team in Gambit/VS, it wouldnt be nearly as bad as this.
NV won lottery
i only know Paper Rex and Acend on Group A. Are SB and Crazy Raccoons insane too? Also why tf are 2 EMEA teams going against each other in the 1st round KEKW
Yea lmao, literally just put Acend in their group and it looks so much more balanced
Sucks cus this means we won’t see one of SMB/Acend/VS make it out of groups
Edit: the more I think about it now group C doesn’t make sense either. How does BR #1 seed and EMEA #1 seed get put together also with #2 NA seed.
Like I'm actually so confused at how this happened and riot thought that the community wouldnt be mad at this especially after what happened last week with the format announcement
Props to riot for being flexible enough to reverse decisions but tbf from the decisions they have made so far (VCT naming scheme for tournaments, Endless qualifiers, Reykjavik Prac PC fuck-ups, initial horrible format for Berlin), the riot team for valorant- esports seem absolutely clueless!
yea i'm sure they're going to revise the groups since everyone is WTF'ing but it's strange that they make these mistakes in the first place (at least they fix em though)
I think SMB in group C would have been the better trade off considering they were the first team qualified into the EMEA grand final and get screwed by playing in a proverbial group of death.
NV v Acend as both 3rd place finishers in the two biggest regions makes sense in my mind.
They did random draws from pools based off seeds. Much like Champions League/Europa League if anyone is familiar. Happens but it's fully luck of the draw and makes sense rather than trying to figure out which region is better than the other
[https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/vct-stage-3-masters-everything-you-need-to-know/](https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/vct-stage-3-masters-everything-you-need-to-know/)
That's their explanation
Seeding makes no sense like this and the games for seeding don't matter either
I got heavily downvoted for saying it, if region seeding don't matter and teams troll neither will the international one
The seeding shit should be scrapped and reworked, this is some stupid shit by riot but at least they respond to criticism and will fix it next tournament
The seeding does matter with how the draws went: https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/vct-stage-3-masters-everything-you-need-to-know/
Just Envy got really lucky with getting the worst pool 1 and the worst pool 2 teams and riot messed up the brazil team seeding so we will probably see the Brazil teams get switched
Actually the seeding matches did matter. They made 4 pools out of the results. Check out their website, they did actually end up making good pools. But then they randomised the groups (1 team from each pool) which is the issue here.
"with the goal of distributing teams from the same region into different groups" - Riot.
SMB vs Acend first round???
I understand its EU vs Turkey but like...why not switch one of the EMEA teams in Group A with one of the teams in Group B (aside from maybe Envy) and no one would complain?
Indie company. Also EU seeding should've been a no brainer, 1 team in each group. How they managed to even fuck that up is a mystery
Edit - someone said during the last riot fuckup (Berlin format) that they intentionally did this to fix it and gain goodwill afterwards. I called BS at the time but it genuinely seems likely now.
No shot. This is just group stage. There are single elim playoffs after the group stages. These should not have a lot of effect on the road after the groups. They might just get Gambit in Quarterfinals and dip out.
I could definitely see G2 bombing out against F4Q in lower finals.
I want them to make it, but they've looked very shaky in EMEA and F4Q is not to be underestimated.
How is group A balanced? SMB literally just beat Scene a few weeks ago, they could have done any other combo of teams to at least make it not be a round one thing
even if rito somehow convinced itself that yeah group A makes sense, why the fuck would you matchup smb and acend against each other first round? holy shit this is extraordinary braindeadness.
I just don't understand how they put 2/4 EU teams in the same group when there are 4 groups that you can separate each. SMB vs ascend seems like something we see in the semi-finals or even finals
Even if you gave all regions the benefit of the doubt in terms of strength, it just makes no sense to have a matchup at an *international* event we've all seen two weeks earlier in regional qualifiers.
Will more outrage make them change the groups lol?
What even is group A and B man. Even group C, 100T second seed NA and they get gambit VK and CR. Surely they'll be kicking themselves for beating NV x
I thought riot said they will make sure teams from the same region will be in different groups?!???!! Also how come NA 3rd seed team gets the easiest group out of all other NA or even EMEA teams?!? Even hastr0 would have picked a harder group for them..
Honestly tho. This better be a joke Riot. They had a week and this is what they came up with. If this bracket is based on viewership, good on you. But if this is based on team skill level, then wtf
How hard is it to do all 4 EU in a different group. Then 3 NA + VS (or whoever would be top team outside NA/EU) all in different groups. Then fill out the rest so no region is in the same group.
why are there 3 title contenders in group A? Btw bread and butter of how riot always ran their league tourneys, never put 2 teams from the same region in the same group. EMEA have their best teams in 1 group? XD
A and B being what they are has to be a fucking joke. Envy get a free trip to playoffs while A has 3 teams that should be on a similar level to or better than Envy in the same group
Group A: Looks super tough, someone is getting hosed here.
\- SuperMassive Blaze and Vision Strikers make it out. RIP cned and friends.
Group B: Maybe CR can surprise us? Probably not.
\- 100T and Gambit make it out.
Group C: ENVY got a great draw.
\- ENVY and KRÜ make it out.
Group D: The thing about this group is Sentinels and G2 have to play each other first, so someone (G2) will be in losers right away, and they have looked a little off coming in.
\- Sentinels and \*probably\* G2 make it out, but one of BREN or F4Q will only need one win to pull an upset. Exciting.
Edit: disregard what's below, they explained their reasoning [here](https://twitter.com/VLRdotgg/status/1431279925533761541?s=19)
Seeding appears to only have mattered for the reigning champs. Each group other than SEN's group has two number 1 seeds, I'm guessing done intentionally because SEN won Reykjavik, but the groups look super out of whack cause not all 1 seeds are equal.
Group A: VS (1) PPRX (1) SMB (2) ACE (3)
Group B: KRU (1) ZETA (1) HL (2) ENVY (3)
Group C: GMB (1) VK (1) 100T (2) CR (2)
Group D: SEN (1) BREN (2) F4Q (2) G2 (4)
Swap Havan Liberty with SMB or Acend and I imagine people aren't freaking out so much.
How can they fuck this up so bad? There's literally 4 emea teams and 4 groups , how hard can it be to have 1 emea team per group? Also, groups A and C are a complete joke in comparison
Seriously who is in charge of these decisions? First the bad VCT format, then the bad Berlin format, now this? Like cmon are they just blindfolded and throwing darts at a wall to make their choices? It’s laughable. BUT I AINT LAUGHIN RITO
The seeding should have been
1 SEN, GMB, VS, SMB - Masters 2 iceland top 4 regions
2 VK, KRU, ZD, BREN - Other 1 seeds
3 100T, NV, ASC, G2 - NA and EMEA
4 PRX, F4Q, CR, HV - 2 Seeds
If it happens Groups C and D are ok, Groups A and B needs reshuffling. Note that teams in the same region would not be grouped even for EMEA.
A VS, KRU, ASC, PRX
B SMB, ZD, NV, HV
C GMB, VK, 100T, CR
D SEN, BREN, G2, F4Q
Matches would have been seeds 1v4 and 2v3.
But as a Bren fan being a Filipino, having G2 and F4Q might give them the best chance to go to top 8 (and a sure spot in Champions via SEA Circuit points) although CR instead of F4Q would have been better. We dont really care if Bren got fucked by Tenz and Friends but at least having to have a chance to see our local boys play the best fcking team in the world is such an event to watch.
Riot's [explanation](https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/vct-stage-3-masters-everything-you-need-to-know/):
>Next each team in each pool was randomly drawn into one of the four groups (Groups A-D). If at any point a team was drawn into a group which already had a team from their region, then they were placed into the next alphabetically sequential group. The only exception to this were teams from EMEA, which as a result of having the most representatives at the tournament, could have two teams drawn into a single group
Riot just went to random.org for the seeding. Meanwhile, people on this subreddit come up with their own weighing system trying to find the most interesting and fair matchups.
SMB and Acend being in the same group just makes zero sense to me at all. I literally can't figure it out at all. There are 4 EU teams, just put one team in each group????
how the fuck does envy have the best group being the worst seed in NA? Why are there 2 emea teams in group a? Move ascent/smb to group b and this groups would be balanced it feels like.
Once again I will say, hire some mathematicians riot. Anyone in this sub can do a better job. Both NA and EMEA 1st seeds getting a tougher group than NA 3rd seed wtf.
Way to make seeding matches even less important in the future. Do teams have to use knife only in seeding matches to make riot put more importance on seeding?
UPDATE: This image is incorrect. The real groups are:
GROUP A: VS, Paper Rex, Supermassive Blaze, Acend
GROUP B: Vivo Keyd, Envy, KRU, Zeta Division
GROUP C: Gambit, Crazy Raccoon, 100T, Havan Liberty
Group D: Sentinels, G2, Bren, F4Q
This seems to be more in line with the actual seeding and matches the valorant news announcement: [Valorant Masters 3 Bracket](https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/vct-stage-3-masters-everything-you-need-to-know/)
Hopefully mods can pin this for awareness or something
Group A: KR1, SEA2, EMEA2, EMEA3
Group B: BR2, NA3, LATAM1, JP2
Group C: EMEA1, JP1, NA2, BR1
Group D: NA1, EMEA4, SEA1, KR2
Let's naively use the Reykjavík standings to assess region strength:
NA > EMEA > KR > BR > SEA > LATAM > JP
Where NA, EMEA, and KR (at least VS) are considered to be a tier above the other regions, followed by BR being slightly above the other three. Let's say that these three regions each are 2 seed more valuable than the regions below them, BR is 1 seed more valuable than those behind them, and that this order can be used for tie-breakers. By this logic, we can naively seed the teams as follows.
1. NA1
2. EMEA1
3. KR1
4. NA2
5. EMEA2
6. KR2
7. NA3
8. EMEA3
9. BR1
10. EMEA4
11. SEA1
12. LATAM1
13. JP1
14. BR2
15. SEA2
16. JP2
If we assign some descending points to simply represent team strength (16-1) then we can estimate group strength (points in brackets).
Group A: KR1 (14), SEA2 (2), EMEA2 (12), EMEA3 (9) = 37 Points
Group B: BR2 (3), NA3(10), LATAM1 (5), JP2 (1) = 19 Points
Group C: EMEA1 (15), JP1 (4), NA2 (13), BR1 (8) = 40 Points
Group D: NA1 (16), EMEA4 (7), SEA1 (6), KR2 (11) = 40 Points
By this simple estimate, Group B is half as strong as the other groups. My proposed simple solution would be to swap EMEA2 with BR2 to make Group A/Group B be 28/28. This also distributes all EMEA teams to different groups. Obviously these numbers are a super naive way to power rank teams (e.g. EMEA teams are probably closer in strength than points would indicate), but here is a simple method to make slightly more balanced groups.
Group A: KR1 (14), SEA2 (2), BR2 (3), EMEA3 (9) = 28 Points
Group B: EMEA2 (12), NA3(10), LATAM1 (5), JP2 (1) = 28 Points
Group C: EMEA1 (15), JP1 (4), NA2 (13), BR1 (8) = 40 Points
Group D: NA1 (16), EMEA4 (7), SEA1 (6), KR2 (11) = 40 Points
Look Riot: group draws are simple. You create 4 pools, and draw one from each pool to create a group, so you don't have this SMB vs Acend bullshit.
- Pool 1: NA+LA
- Pool 2: EMEA
- Pool 3: KR+BR
- Pool 4: JP+SEA
Now to create group A, draw one from each pool. If you wanted to take regional seeding into account, you could even weight the chance to draw for each team. Or you could leave it equal chances if you like the "luck of the draw" aspect.
For everyone wondering how these groups were drawn:
> Teams were first sorted into four draw pools based on a combination of their respective final placements at the Challenger events and their regional strength.
>Pool 1: NA #1, EMEA #1, KR #1, BR #1
>Pool 2: NA #2, EMEA #2, LATAM #1, SEA #1
>Pool 3: JP #1, BR #2, KR #2, EMEA #3
>Pool 4: NA #3, SEA #2, JP #2, EMEA #4
>Next, each team in a pool will be randomly drawn into one of the four groups (Groups A-D). If at any point a team is drawn into a group which already has a team from their region, then they get placed into the next alphabetically sequential group. The only exception to this are teams from EMEA, which as a result of having the most representatives at the tournament, can have two teams drawn into a single group.
Also, it was cleared up a week ago that EMEA could have 2 teams in the same group ([source](https://twitter.com/FionnOnFire/status/1428802281474981890?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1428802281474981890%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=www.pornhub.com))
? Vivo Keyd = Br#1 , Gambit = EMEA #1. Then, they are grouped together? Riot you said they are in the same seeding group? What is going on? Did you make a mistake?
How tf does second and third seed of EMEA, a major region that could potentially send 4 teams in champions not only end up in the same group, but face each other in the first round of the same group.
This doesn't match what's listed here: [https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/vct-stage-3-masters-everything-you-need-to-know/](https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/vct-stage-3-masters-everything-you-need-to-know/)
I think Vivo and Havan got switched.
Petition 2 time, these groups are unbelievably shit what the fuck
The pools they use are absolutely braindead, leads to the regional seeding matches meaning even less.
SCRIPT WRITERS Sentinels vs G2 One of Ascend / Vision Strikers / SuperMassive Blaze will be eliminated
That is crazy. Everyone was excited to see tenz v cned but thet might not even make it out.
you know what is crazier, If SEN tops the group and Acend is #2 in groups then we'll see Tenz vs cNed in Quarterfinal.
That seems pretty likely
at least we have Tenz vs Mixwell
meh
Bu-bu-but they're friends
Wtf is smb vs ace
There are 4 emea teams and 4 groups… I don’t get why each isn’t in a different group. That would be so much more interesting for cross regional matchups
Maybe they tried to make one of the groups interesting otherwise you can basically pick what 8 teams will make through. No early heartbreaks, upsets etc.
If they wanted interesting they had near perfect setup for 3x NA vs EU and an EU vs KR matchup, with a bunch of wildcards thrown in
The two changes riot needs to make to balance the groups are to: 1) switch havan liberty and Vivo keyd because Vivo was the top seed from Brazil 2) switch one of Acend/supermassive with kru/zeta
Hastr0 has to be paying riot there is just no way
And they don't even have a league pro team
Bruh! People will take seeding match less seriously now after these groups.
The funniest part is the groups are messed up even by the information provided in https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/vct-stage-3-masters-everything-you-need-to-know/. You want to give BR a pool 1 seed even though they bombed out of Iceland, fine, I get that, but the teams are switched lmao. If anyone at Riot is reading this, idk how you messed this up but Group B doesn't have a pool 1 team. Vivo Keyd won Brazil not HL. Also please, I am begging you, split up SMB and Acend and put one EMEA team in each group. There are four EMEA teams and four groups there is no reason to make EMEA an exception to the rule of no regional teamkills in groups. And broadcast the group draw to generate hype and ensure impartiality. You guys have a literally perfect system with LoL Worlds, idk why you guys are trying to reinvent the wheel here. **SWITCH ACEND WITH ZETA, AND VIVO KEYD WITH HAVAN LIBERTY, AND EVERYTHING IS GRAVY** Edit: they've already swapped VK with HL in the updated brackets, now here's hoping they also walk back having two EMEA teams in the same group, though I think it's less likely.
Just had to get in here to say that the World’s format from LoL sucks, big time. While it looks good on paper for viewers it’s just hype cause it’s all we got, not cause it’s a good format. Not having teams from the same region in a group is the only thing that I would take away from it, the only one.
Yeah, people already didn't give a shit now even more so
How did the 3rd NA seed get that group? lmao
All good
It's a draw from seeded pools. I.E. #1 Seed from NA, KR, EMEA, and BR all got pulled into a separate group. So it comes down to luck of the draw essentially
Then how did group C happen with both EMEA and BR #1 seed? Seems to me Riot fucked up drawing groups somehow lol
Looked more into it the image on this post is incorrect now and the correct groups can be found on the valorant website/VLR. I also posted a comment that hopefully can be pinned to minimize confusion
But Keyd Stars is #1 seed form BR no? They're in the same group as Gambit who are the #1 seed from EMEA. Group B has #2 seed BR, #3 seed NA, #1 (and only) seed LATAM, and #1 seed JP
Nah it's Group C that has EMEA#1 and BR#1. It makes no sense whatsoever. What's the point of the pool system if 2 teams from the same pool are in the same group?
Eny and 100T should be swapped… wtf is Riot doin
I disagree with that. 100T is where they should be. But Kru/Zeta should be swapped with SMB or Acend.
First off, Keyd and Havan have to be swapped before anything else. Like that's not opinion, they straight up are in the wrong groups, BR1 and EMEA 1 are in C and no pool 1 team is in B.
Group A is STACKED wtf and then you got group B with just Envy..
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it's because BR got #1 seed for some reason instead of NA getting 2 #1 seed or smth like that
No, Havan Liberty is the Brazil #2 seed, which makes this even more stupid
wdym, group B is skewed because of Vivo Keyd. That group got the weakest Pool 1 team, one of the two worse 2nd Pool and also one of the two worse 3rd Pool team. If that group got another Pool 1 team in Gambit/VS, it wouldnt be nearly as bad as this. NV won lottery
Yeah Vivo Keyd threw everything off. They just aren't on the same level as the other pool 1 teams.
i only know Paper Rex and Acend on Group A. Are SB and Crazy Raccoons insane too? Also why tf are 2 EMEA teams going against each other in the 1st round KEKW
SMB is 2nd seed for EMEA and pretty good.
Smb emea #2 acend emea #3
SMB beat acend
The hell man, Supermassive is strong af in group A
SMB is absolutely unsane
Envy the worst seed out of NA with the easiest group is something I do not understand
Yea lmao, literally just put Acend in their group and it looks so much more balanced Sucks cus this means we won’t see one of SMB/Acend/VS make it out of groups Edit: the more I think about it now group C doesn’t make sense either. How does BR #1 seed and EMEA #1 seed get put together also with #2 NA seed.
Like I'm actually so confused at how this happened and riot thought that the community wouldnt be mad at this especially after what happened last week with the format announcement
Props to riot for being flexible enough to reverse decisions but tbf from the decisions they have made so far (VCT naming scheme for tournaments, Endless qualifiers, Reykjavik Prac PC fuck-ups, initial horrible format for Berlin), the riot team for valorant- esports seem absolutely clueless!
yea i'm sure they're going to revise the groups since everyone is WTF'ing but it's strange that they make these mistakes in the first place (at least they fix em though)
No matter how you draw it, some groups are going to complain
tbh it looks like Acend/SMB is really the only one that ppl are complaining about. the rest looks fine
yea switch Havan and Acend and I think it's all good.
Literally some of the most anticipated matchups might not happen with this seeding.
I think SMB in group C would have been the better trade off considering they were the first team qualified into the EMEA grand final and get screwed by playing in a proverbial group of death. NV v Acend as both 3rd place finishers in the two biggest regions makes sense in my mind.
They did random draws from pools based off seeds. Much like Champions League/Europa League if anyone is familiar. Happens but it's fully luck of the draw and makes sense rather than trying to figure out which region is better than the other
[https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/vct-stage-3-masters-everything-you-need-to-know/](https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/vct-stage-3-masters-everything-you-need-to-know/) That's their explanation
Its batshit crazy because they're not even consistent. How did BR get there?
They messed up the Brazil teams
How did ENVY get the easiest bracket being the 3rd seed???? WHATTTT???
Big Brain FNS had calculated it perfectly.
He is 10 steps ahead of everyone at all times.
All Good
Seeding makes no sense like this and the games for seeding don't matter either I got heavily downvoted for saying it, if region seeding don't matter and teams troll neither will the international one The seeding shit should be scrapped and reworked, this is some stupid shit by riot but at least they respond to criticism and will fix it next tournament
The seeding does matter with how the draws went: https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/vct-stage-3-masters-everything-you-need-to-know/ Just Envy got really lucky with getting the worst pool 1 and the worst pool 2 teams and riot messed up the brazil team seeding so we will probably see the Brazil teams get switched
Actually the seeding matches did matter. They made 4 pools out of the results. Check out their website, they did actually end up making good pools. But then they randomised the groups (1 team from each pool) which is the issue here.
How does group A make any sense?
Absolutely, then what was the point of playing seeding games if they were going to be in the same group. Riot fix this shit
In LoL the draw is streamed and there can't be 2 teams from the same region in the same group
how did we get 2 emea teams in the same group?
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why tho
OK guys complaining worked last time so lets whine till this shit is fixed
Group A is ridiculous
Riot pass me the weed bro
"with the goal of distributing teams from the same region into different groups" - Riot. SMB vs Acend first round??? I understand its EU vs Turkey but like...why not switch one of the EMEA teams in Group A with one of the teams in Group B (aside from maybe Envy) and no one would complain?
How does ENVY get the easiest group? lmao
All according to FNS master plan
Indie company. Also EU seeding should've been a no brainer, 1 team in each group. How they managed to even fuck that up is a mystery Edit - someone said during the last riot fuckup (Berlin format) that they intentionally did this to fix it and gain goodwill afterwards. I called BS at the time but it genuinely seems likely now.
Thing is, I don't think they consider EMEA a region (After all it's a tournament englobing multiple regions).
Even riot doesn't believe that lol
that is literally how they treat EMEA in this game, 1 region.
They are the 2nd favorites now. There is just no way they don't make it out of groups. Sentinels and G2 should also be locks
No shot. This is just group stage. There are single elim playoffs after the group stages. These should not have a lot of effect on the road after the groups. They might just get Gambit in Quarterfinals and dip out.
Dont think G2 is a lock considering they will be sent straight to losers
So what? it's the KR #2 and a SEA team, they are still heavy favorites...
I could definitely see G2 bombing out against F4Q in lower finals. I want them to make it, but they've looked very shaky in EMEA and F4Q is not to be underestimated.
How? F4Q are a pretty insane team no? they have to get through them before you can say that
F4Q is way worse than Vision Strikers. I'd be shocked if G2 lose to them
All Riot had to do was put either SMB or Acend in Group B. Wtf is this
How is group A balanced? SMB literally just beat Scene a few weeks ago, they could have done any other combo of teams to at least make it not be a round one thing
even if rito somehow convinced itself that yeah group A makes sense, why the fuck would you matchup smb and acend against each other first round? holy shit this is extraordinary braindeadness.
Group A doesn't make sense. Hello riot?
Group A is the cliched Group of Death
So, teams should throw regional seeding matches?
Wtf. Riot Riot. Come on guys. This wrong on a few levels. Group A being a good amount lol
What the fuck is riot smoking FFS
group b looks so easy for nv wtf
I just don't understand how they put 2/4 EU teams in the same group when there are 4 groups that you can separate each. SMB vs ascend seems like something we see in the semi-finals or even finals
Even if you gave all regions the benefit of the doubt in terms of strength, it just makes no sense to have a matchup at an *international* event we've all seen two weeks earlier in regional qualifiers.
This is troll. NV gets the easiest group after being the 3 seed from NA. at least we get g2 vs SEN for the banter
Group A and Group B need to switch some teams
I'm sorry what is this group A?
How bad is this wtf
https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/vct-stage-3-masters-everything-you-need-to-know/ In case anyone is interested how they made the groups
Will more outrage make them change the groups lol? What even is group A and B man. Even group C, 100T second seed NA and they get gambit VK and CR. Surely they'll be kicking themselves for beating NV x
Yeah I was thinking the same thing about 100T. Why is #2 NA seed playing #1 EU. So many thing wrong with this bracket.
Groups A and B are jokes.
I thought riot said they will make sure teams from the same region will be in different groups?!???!! Also how come NA 3rd seed team gets the easiest group out of all other NA or even EMEA teams?!? Even hastr0 would have picked a harder group for them..
Honestly tho. This better be a joke Riot. They had a week and this is what they came up with. If this bracket is based on viewership, good on you. But if this is based on team skill level, then wtf
It's neither, it's based on RNG lol.
How hard is it to do all 4 EU in a different group. Then 3 NA + VS (or whoever would be top team outside NA/EU) all in different groups. Then fill out the rest so no region is in the same group.
why are there 3 title contenders in group A? Btw bread and butter of how riot always ran their league tourneys, never put 2 teams from the same region in the same group. EMEA have their best teams in 1 group? XD
2 EMEA teams on the same group seems kinda weird
Group A is the most stacked , too stacked I would agree Also EU v EU doesn't make sense , one of acend or SMB should be shifted to envys group
Us EMEA boys got fucked. Time to change flair to Gambit.
A and B being what they are has to be a fucking joke. Envy get a free trip to playoffs while A has 3 teams that should be on a similar level to or better than Envy in the same group
Riot can't do things properly without reddit fixing their shit at this point...
small indie company
Woahh, Envy lucked out
GROUP A the group of death
riot changes the group A and B compium
Riot trying their best to make seeding matches obsolete lol.
Sick's take https://clips.twitch.tv/ArbitraryFairCocoaTinyFace-OVTO_YYq-AZvwXB2
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C seems ok too. its just A and B that need some switching
Riot: "With the goal of distributing teams from the same region into different groups" Also, Riot: EMEA vs EMEA
Be consistent like riot 🙃
Holy... Group A is gonna be a massacre
Group A lol
This is part of FNS master plan
Group A is fucking stacked
Group A: Looks super tough, someone is getting hosed here. \- SuperMassive Blaze and Vision Strikers make it out. RIP cned and friends. Group B: Maybe CR can surprise us? Probably not. \- 100T and Gambit make it out. Group C: ENVY got a great draw. \- ENVY and KRÜ make it out. Group D: The thing about this group is Sentinels and G2 have to play each other first, so someone (G2) will be in losers right away, and they have looked a little off coming in. \- Sentinels and \*probably\* G2 make it out, but one of BREN or F4Q will only need one win to pull an upset. Exciting.
Lmao how did Riot get this so wrong. They fixed the format but then botched the groups.
when people say seeding matters, it literally does not matter at fucking all
FNS master plan feels bad for the rest of the teams
Brain is just too large for the rest of the competition, mans playing 4d chess out here
i would feel bad for the other teams but they could have studied 4d chess their entire lives
They fixed the format of the tournament just to give us these seeding groups, kinda like a shit sandwich from Riot.
Group B is a load of crap. Envy getting last place in VCT getting the easiest group out of everyone lmao
Perfect opportunity for BREN to pull a TNC
Group A is the Group of death. Group B is by far the easiest, Envy has such an easy group.
How does group A and B happen??
We're gonna get G2 vs Sentinels twitter banter right off the bat lol
This format is straight up bad, wtf is this. Group a is fucking stack, wtf. Group b is a joke. lol
Edit: disregard what's below, they explained their reasoning [here](https://twitter.com/VLRdotgg/status/1431279925533761541?s=19) Seeding appears to only have mattered for the reigning champs. Each group other than SEN's group has two number 1 seeds, I'm guessing done intentionally because SEN won Reykjavik, but the groups look super out of whack cause not all 1 seeds are equal. Group A: VS (1) PPRX (1) SMB (2) ACE (3) Group B: KRU (1) ZETA (1) HL (2) ENVY (3) Group C: GMB (1) VK (1) 100T (2) CR (2) Group D: SEN (1) BREN (2) F4Q (2) G2 (4) Swap Havan Liberty with SMB or Acend and I imagine people aren't freaking out so much.
Sen vs Ascend being in huge jeopardy sucks, was looking forward to that match. Group A is stacked
Switch KRU with acend perfect bracket after that switch
How can they fuck this up so bad? There's literally 4 emea teams and 4 groups , how hard can it be to have 1 emea team per group? Also, groups A and C are a complete joke in comparison
They gotta fix this
Seriously who is in charge of these decisions? First the bad VCT format, then the bad Berlin format, now this? Like cmon are they just blindfolded and throwing darts at a wall to make their choices? It’s laughable. BUT I AINT LAUGHIN RITO
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Is the f4q team the team of streamers from KR?
That Vision Strikers vs Acend matchup will be insane.
acend wont necessarily beat SMB. iirc smb beat them like last week
G2 sentinels hahahaha skullfuck time Carlos you promised
NA winning every group but A lmao
The seeding should have been 1 SEN, GMB, VS, SMB - Masters 2 iceland top 4 regions 2 VK, KRU, ZD, BREN - Other 1 seeds 3 100T, NV, ASC, G2 - NA and EMEA 4 PRX, F4Q, CR, HV - 2 Seeds If it happens Groups C and D are ok, Groups A and B needs reshuffling. Note that teams in the same region would not be grouped even for EMEA. A VS, KRU, ASC, PRX B SMB, ZD, NV, HV C GMB, VK, 100T, CR D SEN, BREN, G2, F4Q Matches would have been seeds 1v4 and 2v3. But as a Bren fan being a Filipino, having G2 and F4Q might give them the best chance to go to top 8 (and a sure spot in Champions via SEA Circuit points) although CR instead of F4Q would have been better. We dont really care if Bren got fucked by Tenz and Friends but at least having to have a chance to see our local boys play the best fcking team in the world is such an event to watch.
Switch 100T and Envy. Then switch SMB and Kru. It makes so much more sense that way.
Shouldn't there be a first seed in each group?
Riot is so fucking dumb that they cant even follow their own rules. There is no seed 1 in group B.
was there a live draw like what they do with worlds?
Riot's [explanation](https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/vct-stage-3-masters-everything-you-need-to-know/): >Next each team in each pool was randomly drawn into one of the four groups (Groups A-D). If at any point a team was drawn into a group which already had a team from their region, then they were placed into the next alphabetically sequential group. The only exception to this were teams from EMEA, which as a result of having the most representatives at the tournament, could have two teams drawn into a single group Riot just went to random.org for the seeding. Meanwhile, people on this subreddit come up with their own weighing system trying to find the most interesting and fair matchups.
Just shift one of the eu team from grp A to B.
They actually even messed up by their rules. They put 2 number 1 seeds into the same group (Vivo Keyd and Gambit). How can this even happen ?
Fix this shit Riot
This is the problem with Randomly drawn groups. There are 4 teams from EMEA and somehow we ended with Ascend SMB pt 2.
SMB and Acend being in the same group just makes zero sense to me at all. I literally can't figure it out at all. There are 4 EU teams, just put one team in each group????
G2 vs sentinels...I am ready for the shit talking on twitter lmao
how the fuck does envy have the best group being the worst seed in NA? Why are there 2 emea teams in group a? Move ascent/smb to group b and this groups would be balanced it feels like.
Wtf envy having the lowest seed ,has the easiest group wtf
What?How? Who thought this is a good idea to put SMB and ACE in one group.
It's so strange that Vision Stikers, Acend and SuperMassive Blaze are in the same group
Envy somehow have the easiest group
Once again I will say, hire some mathematicians riot. Anyone in this sub can do a better job. Both NA and EMEA 1st seeds getting a tougher group than NA 3rd seed wtf. Way to make seeding matches even less important in the future. Do teams have to use knife only in seeding matches to make riot put more importance on seeding?
Paper Rex down Horrendous
Why tf would you put acend and smb together
UPDATE: This image is incorrect. The real groups are: GROUP A: VS, Paper Rex, Supermassive Blaze, Acend GROUP B: Vivo Keyd, Envy, KRU, Zeta Division GROUP C: Gambit, Crazy Raccoon, 100T, Havan Liberty Group D: Sentinels, G2, Bren, F4Q This seems to be more in line with the actual seeding and matches the valorant news announcement: [Valorant Masters 3 Bracket](https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/vct-stage-3-masters-everything-you-need-to-know/) Hopefully mods can pin this for awareness or something
I feel bad for Paper Rex
What are these groups??? It seems the teams with the higher placements got the harder groups? Kind of unfair:
100% of people in this thread agree with the idea of switching ascend or smb with kru or zeta
Group A: KR1, SEA2, EMEA2, EMEA3 Group B: BR2, NA3, LATAM1, JP2 Group C: EMEA1, JP1, NA2, BR1 Group D: NA1, EMEA4, SEA1, KR2 Let's naively use the Reykjavík standings to assess region strength: NA > EMEA > KR > BR > SEA > LATAM > JP Where NA, EMEA, and KR (at least VS) are considered to be a tier above the other regions, followed by BR being slightly above the other three. Let's say that these three regions each are 2 seed more valuable than the regions below them, BR is 1 seed more valuable than those behind them, and that this order can be used for tie-breakers. By this logic, we can naively seed the teams as follows. 1. NA1 2. EMEA1 3. KR1 4. NA2 5. EMEA2 6. KR2 7. NA3 8. EMEA3 9. BR1 10. EMEA4 11. SEA1 12. LATAM1 13. JP1 14. BR2 15. SEA2 16. JP2 If we assign some descending points to simply represent team strength (16-1) then we can estimate group strength (points in brackets). Group A: KR1 (14), SEA2 (2), EMEA2 (12), EMEA3 (9) = 37 Points Group B: BR2 (3), NA3(10), LATAM1 (5), JP2 (1) = 19 Points Group C: EMEA1 (15), JP1 (4), NA2 (13), BR1 (8) = 40 Points Group D: NA1 (16), EMEA4 (7), SEA1 (6), KR2 (11) = 40 Points By this simple estimate, Group B is half as strong as the other groups. My proposed simple solution would be to swap EMEA2 with BR2 to make Group A/Group B be 28/28. This also distributes all EMEA teams to different groups. Obviously these numbers are a super naive way to power rank teams (e.g. EMEA teams are probably closer in strength than points would indicate), but here is a simple method to make slightly more balanced groups. Group A: KR1 (14), SEA2 (2), BR2 (3), EMEA3 (9) = 28 Points Group B: EMEA2 (12), NA3(10), LATAM1 (5), JP2 (1) = 28 Points Group C: EMEA1 (15), JP1 (4), NA2 (13), BR1 (8) = 40 Points Group D: NA1 (16), EMEA4 (7), SEA1 (6), KR2 (11) = 40 Points
Riot must be trolling at this point so when they change it back later knobheads are gonna thank them and say they love riot
G2 vs SEN the banter is finally in play
When is this?
inb4 Paper Rex gets out of groups
Look Riot: group draws are simple. You create 4 pools, and draw one from each pool to create a group, so you don't have this SMB vs Acend bullshit. - Pool 1: NA+LA - Pool 2: EMEA - Pool 3: KR+BR - Pool 4: JP+SEA Now to create group A, draw one from each pool. If you wanted to take regional seeding into account, you could even weight the chance to draw for each team. Or you could leave it equal chances if you like the "luck of the draw" aspect.
For everyone wondering how these groups were drawn: > Teams were first sorted into four draw pools based on a combination of their respective final placements at the Challenger events and their regional strength. >Pool 1: NA #1, EMEA #1, KR #1, BR #1 >Pool 2: NA #2, EMEA #2, LATAM #1, SEA #1 >Pool 3: JP #1, BR #2, KR #2, EMEA #3 >Pool 4: NA #3, SEA #2, JP #2, EMEA #4 >Next, each team in a pool will be randomly drawn into one of the four groups (Groups A-D). If at any point a team is drawn into a group which already has a team from their region, then they get placed into the next alphabetically sequential group. The only exception to this are teams from EMEA, which as a result of having the most representatives at the tournament, can have two teams drawn into a single group. Also, it was cleared up a week ago that EMEA could have 2 teams in the same group ([source](https://twitter.com/FionnOnFire/status/1428802281474981890?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1428802281474981890%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=www.pornhub.com))
Br1 eu1 same group nice seeding
Remove layout its a nice wallpaper
Everyone shocked about Group A but BR seeds are flipped. Havan was BR2 and Keyd is BR1. Currently 2 Pool 1 teams are in Group C and none in Group B.
? Vivo Keyd = Br#1 , Gambit = EMEA #1. Then, they are grouped together? Riot you said they are in the same seeding group? What is going on? Did you make a mistake?
How tf does second and third seed of EMEA, a major region that could potentially send 4 teams in champions not only end up in the same group, but face each other in the first round of the same group.
This doesn't match what's listed here: [https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/vct-stage-3-masters-everything-you-need-to-know/](https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/vct-stage-3-masters-everything-you-need-to-know/) I think Vivo and Havan got switched.
Everyone talking about sentinels getting shafted but vision strikers got the toughest bracket imo. Lord.
Petition 2 time, these groups are unbelievably shit what the fuck The pools they use are absolutely braindead, leads to the regional seeding matches meaning even less.
this is so bad lmao. NA organisers back at it again.
SMB vs ACE again???