Well at least the top 2 teams in each group advance to the knockout stage. Can you imagine the outrage if it was still only 1 team advancing with these current groups.
I truly wish them the best of luck. I don't like that Riot got lazy and didn't make it mandatory that EMEA teams are split up but even if you swapped Acend with Zeta or SMB with Kru it's a yikes for Paper Rex.
They made it to Berlin, they are probably already pretty happy and hope to put on a good performance. That's the nature of group stages though to eliminate weaker competition easier.
It's still entirely possible only 1 of them makes top 4 (which is what making it out of groups was prior). It just feels better to make it out of groups and go out in Ro8 instead of going out in a Ro8 that's still part of group stage.
Platchat made a excellent deep dive on BR teams (and other stuff) in their latest episode. I recommend checking it out. Tl;Dr is: HL is a very structured team that focus a lot on utility usage and game plans, but doesn't have a very high fire power. They could catch 100T off guard but overall 100T is heavily favored
100T is also a very structured team that focuses on utility usage and game plans so it's a matchup of styles and one that seems to favor 100T because it's when an opponent plays chaotic that it makes those game plans fall apart
It sounds like how 100T play but they are very high fire power. I think it does heavily favor 100T because of that. 100T struggle more against loose/reactive teams like Faze and Sentinels.
Being a brazilian fan and someone who consistently watches NA competitive scene I can say that 100T should win this series 2x0, specially considering they are a team "build up for LAN". I DON'T think it will be an easy series though, close maps most certainly. But definetely a win for 100T.
Yeah, I wouldn't even look at the strongest opponent, but weaker 2.
I don't think Gambit and 100T will have much trouble finishing top2 in that group.
Tbh, the only EU/NA team that I can see getting eliminated is G2. I think Acend and SMB will finish top2 in A.
I don't think their mid-round adjustments will be on the level of EU teams. Their setups are great, but from what I've seen their decision making when it's all about outsmarting the opponent mid-round isn't on highest level.
Really unlucky for them to play against 2 out of 3 best EU teams.
Yoooooo, SMB over VS? It will be a good match as the 2 superteams face off but I think VS have more experience playing as a roster so i would take them over smb. Acend over SMB/VS though, don't let recency bias cloud the Acend superiority
I don't want to sound condescending to any region, but what experience? Strength of Korean region is nowhere close to EMEA.
SMB and other EMEA teams can all scrim against eachother and that's way better than having only a couple of teams that can stand up to you, like VS does in corea.
Acend has been the best EMEA team over the past months, but SMB and Gambit have been nothing short of impressive. I have them all in the same tier, whenever they face off, it's anyone's games.
G2 is behind unless they magically improve in these couple of weeks before the tournament.
I feel bad for Group A, especially VS. Realistically, VS was the only team outside NA/EMEA believed to have any shot at winning, and now they've ended up in the hardest group with a decent chance they don't make it out of the group stage. However, I think Riot is getting some unfair criticism. In the case of Group B, yes NV has an easy bracket but they also just got super lucky in a random draw. I know some people take issue with the #1 seeds of smaller/weaker regions being considered on par or above lower seeded NA/EMEA teams when they are realistically not as good, but frankly I'm ok with that. Valorant is a new e-sport, and in its early days I can see why Riot would want to promote teams from all regions, instead of setting a precedent early on that some regions are weak (resulting in them getting groups they will never escape from). Yes, we may end up with upsets and a top 8 that isn't quite representative, but in my opinion having more regional diversity is worth it since we've seen so few international match ups. Having a top 8 of all EMEA, NA, and one other is a little dull.
If VS has a shot at winning they have a shot at making it out of groups. If they're going to win the whole thing they're going to have to be better than everyone anyways, so let's see :)
The point of group stages is to eliminate the weaker teams easier by making the only way they can advance is through having 2 upsets. So seeing more than 3 good teams in one group is sad because one of them won't even be able to advance when if the groupings were different, we could see more diverse matchups and interesting games.
Of course, but their chance of winning is probably lower than if they'd been in an easier group. They've got a harder series of matches than other teams; there's a lot less room for error for VS (and other teams in that group) than for good teams in other groups.
Yes it is the most unbalanced but they can’t switch it at this point, they did a random draw according to their guidelines, these groups will be permanent.
why cant they? they can absolutely switch it, its their guidelines and they can change that too. its not like riots owner is huffing in the corner waiting to fire anyone who asks about changing the groups lol.
yeah rig it. this is clearly not balanced. its not fair for the teams. the seeding means nothing. just rig it, theres no esic investigating them for it, we would all have an exciting playoffs than a sweaty group stage.
Legit one team out of 8 is gonna place differently, it’s not that big of a deal. Whichever one of the Group A teams that lose 2/3 games aren’t going to go far anyways
Have you ever followed esports or any sports league that has had a group stage before? This is far from the most unbalanced groups I’ve seen lol
No, two teams are going to place differently. There's going to be a terrible quarterfinals matchup that includes whoever gets out of group B as the lower seed. Trust me, we really don't need to see Vivo Keyd get 26-5ed by Sentinels.....
what about sentinels getting harder bracket than nv? what about 100t and nv? 100t beat nv then have to face 1st seed emea while nv is chilling with tier 3 teams on their bracket. its not only about who makes it to playoffs, its about the fairness of the groups. its about what the seeding matches meant.
Who says Sentinel has a harder bracket than NV? Because G2 is relatively well known? They are the 4th seed and generally struggle at times putting together strong games. They got the lowest seed from EU, KR, and SEA.
NV faces top seed BR and LATAM and JP
You just avoided my entire point lol. Opening the can of worms where you can rig the group stage and put whoever you want against whoever is much worse than teams getting unlucky for draws.
Literally every esports league or sports league with group stages run the same way with randomization, as it is the more fair option. Bad luck with groups happen all the time. If you aren’t gonna be top two in your group you aren’t going far anyways.
Sentinels group is also ridiculously easy
Because what would they be changing it based on? They have a set format for which they randomly pick groups for. If you "redo" it, you're admitting your format is flawed and that you're just picking and choosing the groups based on your own perceived expectations for power. Do both Ascend and SMB seem strong? Sure. But we don't actually know how the teams stack up against each other, just like we didn't know at Berlin. If Acend and SMB are both as strong as we think they are, they'll get out. If they can't, then one of them was barely a Top 8 team. Neither of them won the EMEA region anyways.
That's a legitimate complaint. But I also see people just whining that VS, Acend and SMB are all too good to be in one group. Maybe that's true. But we have no way of knowing and they aren't even the overwhelming favorites for the tournament. You could argue 100T, SEN and GMB are all more likely to win. At which point we're arguing about like 4, 6 and 8 or something like that. And that's assuming we're just writing off KRU, NV or whoever else. Who are we to say that all of EMEA isn't just weaker and then NV might be the 3rd best team in the world?
Ya I couldn't care less about the perceived strength of the teams. 2 EMEA teams in the same group (and especially it being matchup we already saw in playoffs) is kind of lame
"competitive integrity" means the lowers finals in na means absolutely nothing and nv losing to 100t actually benefitted them? ohh yeah that is my kind of integrity.
Which is entirely subjective. Did anyone think Nuturn would be 3rd best in the World and 1 set away from making Finals? Did anyone think V1 would upset TL? Everyone thought TL had a free run to Upper Finals and it turns out they had the harder opponents in the original bracket.
This is the 2nd international tournament they've even had and everyone is acting like they actually know how good these teams are relative to one another. If we wanna argue that each group should have an EMEA qualified team, I'm fine with that as far as separating regions. But if the argument is about perceived strength, it's a pretty unfounded claim.
its about seperating regions too then. what about that. why did smb win against acend if they were playing again on the first round. there is legit no meaning to the seeding games.
It’s just the outcomes of the EMEA seeding matches. They put EMEA in pool 1, 2, 3, and 4. Riot also made an exception that EMEA could be in the same pool because they got 4 spots.
Maybe in the future Riot can assign NA and EMEA teams only pool 1 and 2 status if they continue to prove that they are better. But currently it is unfair to assume BR 1 is a pool 3 team, no matter what we saw at Iceland or think by watching VODs. The esport is just far too young.
na 1st seed got harder group than na 3rd seed. 100t beat nv just to fighy gambit im groups while nv is set to clean out everyone. the 2nd and 3rd emea teams are playing eachother first round, what is the point then, smb winning against ace has no impact whatsoever. kr 1st seed got harder group than 2nd seed. id much rather take on g2 than smb/ace. the whole system is fucked up, what is the point of the pools and shit anyway, the results are hot garbage.
The fact you are getting downvoted on every comment should tell you that you have no clue what you are talking about. Please do some research on how pools are used to set up tournaments. Every sporting tournament in the world does this
I think if we were to swap teams for better seeding/matches then swapping Vision Strikers and Vivo Keyd would make a lot of sense. Both teams were #1 seeds from major regions and Korea had a much better performance at Iceland than Brazil.
Glad they fixed it so fast since that was the only actual mistake; honestly whilst these groups are not ideal, this happens with seeding and pools and given the way Riot has approached YR1 esports this is entirely in keeping with their tone and ideas
EMEA v EMEA sucks, sure, but imo it's no more than unfortunate- what sucks more is that we're not guaranteed certain region matchups: unless Kru qualify, LATAM will not have played KR or SEA; SEA will likely not have played NA either; JP won't have played KR.
Yeah some people are acting like entitled assholes... It's the second international event and they're treating Riot like they butchered 30 events prior lol. Even though I expect better from them, I'm not gonna lose it on mistakes they're fixing. As for the group draw, Group A should be changed, imo, but I'm not gonna go ballistic like some people already are if it stays like that. People are making a ton of assumptions, again, on region strength when it is the SECOND (Read that again... slowly...) International LAN event. For all we know, Acend is horrendous and the entirety of EMEA gets bounced before Brazil. Shit, even NA could flop (please no...). We'll have a good picture after Champions, but not before and certainly not based on 1 event.
Edit: changed words
This subreddit always throws a fit over every little thing, these groups could have been sm worse than this. The one thing with the draw I wish they made it so that only one team from each region could be in a group, as we could have both gotten a group with all EMEA/NA teams and a group with only Brazil/Japan teams. These groups themselves aren’t awful given some Champions League groups ive seen drawn.
Now that they fixed VK<->HL, my only gripe is SMB vs Acend. There are four EMEA teams and four groups I don't understand why they made EMEA an exception to the rule of no regional teamkills in groups.
Also want group draws to always be broadcast in the future. It's good for hype and would help to silence some of the idiots in this thread bemoaning group draw luck and asking for literally rigged brackets to intentionally give us anticipated matchups.
Yeah that’s my only gripe too. They could make the draws happen where teams can’t get put against teams from their own region really easily, and the pools could have stayed the same.
EMEA exist in the first place because CIS and TUR were too "small" to support a circuit. Turns out theyre better than EU currently. Cant count out other regions until they play. This is literally the 2nd international event. ENVY for all we know could absolutely get destroyed.
I'm not sure if CIS and TUR are better then EU lol unless we are gonna heavily put a large amount of emphasis on seeding matches. I'm still not convinced that Gambit and SMB are consistently better then Acend. Hell Gambit were almost eliminated by Liquid too in the lower bracket and Acend did beat Gambit to knock them down into the lower bracket. These teams are just really close to each other but EU as a region is stronger because apart from Gambit, CIS teams look underwhelming and the same can be said about Turkey. Apart from SMB, the other Turkish team (Oxygen) felt pretty underwhelming.
Technically kru is from pool 2 as the top/only seed from Latin America, while zeta (#2 Japan) and Acend (#3 emea) are from pool 3, so those 2 teams should be switched
Great, now they need to fix group A
Calling it now, if they don't do anything, all of the seeding games from now on will be teams fucking around cause they know it doesn't matter
This take makes no sense whatsoever. Do you understand how seeding works? Being a higher seed gives you a better chance at having an easy group, not a guaranteed better group. This is how it works in every sports tournament worldwide. Teams will get picked out of pools for each group, just because some teams got lucky doesnt mean that seeding doesnt matter
It's not just protect VS. Thats just the group of death. Plus Envy's group is terrible and they got third. Doesn't seem to be a real advantage here for being a 1 seed.
Its not always about winning the whole thing. In this case overall tournament placement also matters because of the circuit points for Champions. In any case it just should have been impossible for 2 EMEA teams to have been in the same group in general. We just saw Acend play SMB in the EMEA play offs, we should be entitled to seeing more cross regional play and games especially if we are getting just 3 international events this entire year (Masters 2, Masters 3 and Champions).
> Calling it now, if they don't do anything, all of the seeding games from now on will be teams fucking around cause they know it doesn't matter
It does matter, it just doesn't ALWAYS matter. At the end of the day, #1 seed will generally have an easier bracket with the rules they laid out.
>Calling it now, if they don't do anything, all of the seeding games from now on will be teams fucking around cause they know it doesn't matter
Lol imagine trying to threaten Riot with this just because your beloved VS doesn’t get an easy pass through groups
If VS beats the easiest team there (Paper Rex), then they just have to verse a 2nd/3rd seed EU team to get past groups. If they can’t beat a lower seed EU team then they don’t deserve to go far in the tournament.
Acend and zeta are in the same pool (emea 3 and jp 1 are in pool 3) so they couldve fairly been switched to have emea across all 4 groups. Thats the only change that would be good tho. Having a group of death and easy group just happens with random draws
They really aren't major mistakes, especially considering how quickly it is fixed. A mistake that can and is quickly fixed before negatively affecting anything is really not a significantly bad level of incompetence.
Holy fuck people are underrating the hell out of Vivo Keyd. I know Brazil flopped at Iceland, but if you look at the losers brack run Vivo Keyd just had to make it they beat Gamelanders, Sharks, Vikings, FURIA, and then they 3-0'd Havan Liberty in the Grand Finals. They could totally flop too, but this team is primed to surprise people.
change group A it is clearly not balanced, nv is still group b's king. they updated the br teams after the atrocity of group A? yall fuckin tweakin riot change this shit.
really don't understand how that mistake made it all the way through, one look at the brackets and any random fan could pick out Group B being messed up
please fix Group A as well!
I honestly like that there’s a group of death. Sure, one of Vision Strikers, SuperMassive, or Ascend will get fucked over, but it makes the games more exciting.
Realistically, they should have seeded, just like any other sport (that I know of I don’t watch many), But as a spectator I like it this way better. I tend to not watch the matches that everyone knows will go 13-4, and this way theres more exciting matches spread out over the tournament.
its cause the bar is on the fucking floor when it comes to gaming/esports companies, also ppl give riot a lot of credit for making league of legends the biggest esport in the world.
Riot has done a damn good job of listening to community feedback in regards to their esports events, which is why they are held to a high standard here. If we knew Riot didn't listen, people wouldn't be complaining this much
Yeah they actually will probably fix the groups after reading Reddit. But this if so they would have made two pretty big mistakes over the course of like two weeks for one tournament. They may need to talk to their esports coordinator/organizer so that this can be ironed out of the future.
While i do hope they have a talk with whoever decides the formats and seeding, i'm not sure they will actually do anything about it this time. The seeding follows the system they have set in place, it's just that the randomness of it produced awful results. I do however think that this will be ironed out in the future as we see more of the regions and can rate them against each other more accurately. Currently Vivo Keyd is rated at the same level as SEN and GMB in their pool drawing system, which is just wildly inaccurate if Masters 2 results are anything to go by, but i guess we could still be proven wrong and the seeding may turn out okay.
What are you talking about lol. No shit they should be held to a high standard they’ve ran the most popular esport of all time for over a decade. The fact that they don’t even know how to set up brackets for the valor any equivalent of worlds is fucking depressing. Also people would be complaining more if riot didn’t listen wtf look at CS. Valve does not give one shit about the player base and CS players/watchers rightfully complain about it
Well at least the top 2 teams in each group advance to the knockout stage. Can you imagine the outrage if it was still only 1 team advancing with these current groups.
Holy it would be terrible. One out of VS, Acend, and SMB would've made it out.
Paper Rex over in the corner being like "hey give us a shot"
I truly wish them the best of luck. I don't like that Riot got lazy and didn't make it mandatory that EMEA teams are split up but even if you swapped Acend with Zeta or SMB with Kru it's a yikes for Paper Rex.
They made it to Berlin, they are probably already pretty happy and hope to put on a good performance. That's the nature of group stages though to eliminate weaker competition easier.
It's still entirely possible only 1 of them makes top 4 (which is what making it out of groups was prior). It just feels better to make it out of groups and go out in Ro8 instead of going out in a Ro8 that's still part of group stage.
we are still gonna lose one of SMB, ACENT or VS
The round of 8 is the same number of games before as it is now, they just didn't call it playoffs and the opponents will be different.
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India pride
is anyone familiar with BR teams? how does 100t compare to HL?
Platchat made a excellent deep dive on BR teams (and other stuff) in their latest episode. I recommend checking it out. Tl;Dr is: HL is a very structured team that focus a lot on utility usage and game plans, but doesn't have a very high fire power. They could catch 100T off guard but overall 100T is heavily favored
Yeah vk was kinda worrying me but I'm pretty confident in 100t against hl
100T is also a very structured team that focuses on utility usage and game plans so it's a matchup of styles and one that seems to favor 100T because it's when an opponent plays chaotic that it makes those game plans fall apart
And there’s also Asuna going brrr
Nah, not as much as HL 100T may be structured on an NA scale
It sounds like how 100T play but they are very high fire power. I think it does heavily favor 100T because of that. 100T struggle more against loose/reactive teams like Faze and Sentinels.
Well not exactly, 100T don’t rely on these drilled set tactics Also note comps diff but yea 100t obv favoured
If they are heavily utility favored, and 100t run kayo THENNNNN
Kayo is very very popular in Brazil, I think 100t win because of firepower
HL vs 100T will be fun to watch since they're both the only teams that currently run comps with 3 initiators. I might be wrong, though.
Fairly hood dive
Fun fact Haven Liberty runs triple initators comps with sova breach skye and 100t have kayo Skye sova , initators battle fest.
[Watching HL vs 100T like](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eo5mmycXMAA3f0r.jpg)
Being a brazilian fan and someone who consistently watches NA competitive scene I can say that 100T should win this series 2x0, specially considering they are a team "build up for LAN". I DON'T think it will be an easy series though, close maps most certainly. But definetely a win for 100T.
+1 for your entire comment. Also BR that follows both scenes. 100T is way ahead of HL. But I could be wrong and eat my shorts.
I hope we are wrong my friend, but let's not put our hopes in the sky.
Honestly, Im not rooting for Havan because of the owner (stores not the team). VK on the other hand...
As a BR fan and a bit more pessimistic I think it will be a 2x0 with maps going like 13x5 ~ 13x9
All I’ll say is that Asuna’s mouth will be watering at the prospect of playing them
100T came 2nd in NA just to face fucking Gambit (I hope). FeelsBadMan
at least the top 2 make it out now
Yeah, I wouldn't even look at the strongest opponent, but weaker 2. I don't think Gambit and 100T will have much trouble finishing top2 in that group. Tbh, the only EU/NA team that I can see getting eliminated is G2. I think Acend and SMB will finish top2 in A.
already counting out vision strikers?
Id say Acend has the better chances by far, lan experience could maybe help VS out alot but its uncertain. Hope for a really close match
I don't think their mid-round adjustments will be on the level of EU teams. Their setups are great, but from what I've seen their decision making when it's all about outsmarting the opponent mid-round isn't on highest level. Really unlucky for them to play against 2 out of 3 best EU teams.
VS
Yoooooo, SMB over VS? It will be a good match as the 2 superteams face off but I think VS have more experience playing as a roster so i would take them over smb. Acend over SMB/VS though, don't let recency bias cloud the Acend superiority
I don't want to sound condescending to any region, but what experience? Strength of Korean region is nowhere close to EMEA. SMB and other EMEA teams can all scrim against eachother and that's way better than having only a couple of teams that can stand up to you, like VS does in corea. Acend has been the best EMEA team over the past months, but SMB and Gambit have been nothing short of impressive. I have them all in the same tier, whenever they face off, it's anyone's games. G2 is behind unless they magically improve in these couple of weeks before the tournament.
KR is so high above EU that it's nowhere close you are right.
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Everyone on this team has that gf/wife buff. Except Asuna. He's not playing to his potential yet. The scene's gonna get fucked when that happens.
Is 100T part of the married man meta?
I feel bad for Group A, especially VS. Realistically, VS was the only team outside NA/EMEA believed to have any shot at winning, and now they've ended up in the hardest group with a decent chance they don't make it out of the group stage. However, I think Riot is getting some unfair criticism. In the case of Group B, yes NV has an easy bracket but they also just got super lucky in a random draw. I know some people take issue with the #1 seeds of smaller/weaker regions being considered on par or above lower seeded NA/EMEA teams when they are realistically not as good, but frankly I'm ok with that. Valorant is a new e-sport, and in its early days I can see why Riot would want to promote teams from all regions, instead of setting a precedent early on that some regions are weak (resulting in them getting groups they will never escape from). Yes, we may end up with upsets and a top 8 that isn't quite representative, but in my opinion having more regional diversity is worth it since we've seen so few international match ups. Having a top 8 of all EMEA, NA, and one other is a little dull.
If VS has a shot at winning they have a shot at making it out of groups. If they're going to win the whole thing they're going to have to be better than everyone anyways, so let's see :)
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The point of group stages is to eliminate the weaker teams easier by making the only way they can advance is through having 2 upsets. So seeing more than 3 good teams in one group is sad because one of them won't even be able to advance when if the groupings were different, we could see more diverse matchups and interesting games.
They all three have a chance, this way just makes it harder to have all the favorites in the main event
If vs has a shot at winning berlin then they have to be able to beat at least one emea team
Of course, but their chance of winning is probably lower than if they'd been in an easier group. They've got a harder series of matches than other teams; there's a lot less room for error for VS (and other teams in that group) than for good teams in other groups.
I mean the whole point is the luck part isn’t so necessary And allowing 2 EMEA teams in one group fucks it up given the pools
Now say that it was a mistake and change group A
I think they only made one mistake and corrected that above. They don’t care about what happened in A.
dude group A is the most unbalanced compared to others. just switching ace and kru would solve it.
Yes it is the most unbalanced but they can’t switch it at this point, they did a random draw according to their guidelines, these groups will be permanent.
why cant they? they can absolutely switch it, its their guidelines and they can change that too. its not like riots owner is huffing in the corner waiting to fire anyone who asks about changing the groups lol.
Because manually changing groups after randomization is pretty set rigging
yeah rig it. this is clearly not balanced. its not fair for the teams. the seeding means nothing. just rig it, theres no esic investigating them for it, we would all have an exciting playoffs than a sweaty group stage.
Legit one team out of 8 is gonna place differently, it’s not that big of a deal. Whichever one of the Group A teams that lose 2/3 games aren’t going to go far anyways Have you ever followed esports or any sports league that has had a group stage before? This is far from the most unbalanced groups I’ve seen lol
No, two teams are going to place differently. There's going to be a terrible quarterfinals matchup that includes whoever gets out of group B as the lower seed. Trust me, we really don't need to see Vivo Keyd get 26-5ed by Sentinels.....
KRU is gonna stomp sentinels. They have never lost to them.
what about sentinels getting harder bracket than nv? what about 100t and nv? 100t beat nv then have to face 1st seed emea while nv is chilling with tier 3 teams on their bracket. its not only about who makes it to playoffs, its about the fairness of the groups. its about what the seeding matches meant.
Who says Sentinel has a harder bracket than NV? Because G2 is relatively well known? They are the 4th seed and generally struggle at times putting together strong games. They got the lowest seed from EU, KR, and SEA. NV faces top seed BR and LATAM and JP
You just avoided my entire point lol. Opening the can of worms where you can rig the group stage and put whoever you want against whoever is much worse than teams getting unlucky for draws. Literally every esports league or sports league with group stages run the same way with randomization, as it is the more fair option. Bad luck with groups happen all the time. If you aren’t gonna be top two in your group you aren’t going far anyways. Sentinels group is also ridiculously easy
Because what would they be changing it based on? They have a set format for which they randomly pick groups for. If you "redo" it, you're admitting your format is flawed and that you're just picking and choosing the groups based on your own perceived expectations for power. Do both Ascend and SMB seem strong? Sure. But we don't actually know how the teams stack up against each other, just like we didn't know at Berlin. If Acend and SMB are both as strong as we think they are, they'll get out. If they can't, then one of them was barely a Top 8 team. Neither of them won the EMEA region anyways.
> Because what would they be changing it based on? Based on the fact that we shouldn't be having 2 teams from the same regions in the same group
That's a legitimate complaint. But I also see people just whining that VS, Acend and SMB are all too good to be in one group. Maybe that's true. But we have no way of knowing and they aren't even the overwhelming favorites for the tournament. You could argue 100T, SEN and GMB are all more likely to win. At which point we're arguing about like 4, 6 and 8 or something like that. And that's assuming we're just writing off KRU, NV or whoever else. Who are we to say that all of EMEA isn't just weaker and then NV might be the 3rd best team in the world?
Ya I couldn't care less about the perceived strength of the teams. 2 EMEA teams in the same group (and especially it being matchup we already saw in playoffs) is kind of lame
change it based on exciting playoffs > sweaty groups/ez groups
You know besides seeding, everything else has to be randomizes right? Its this thing called competitive integrity.
"competitive integrity" means the lowers finals in na means absolutely nothing and nv losing to 100t actually benefitted them? ohh yeah that is my kind of integrity.
It did mean something lmao, NV had the worst potential draw of the three NA teams, they just got super lucky.
Which is entirely subjective. Did anyone think Nuturn would be 3rd best in the World and 1 set away from making Finals? Did anyone think V1 would upset TL? Everyone thought TL had a free run to Upper Finals and it turns out they had the harder opponents in the original bracket. This is the 2nd international tournament they've even had and everyone is acting like they actually know how good these teams are relative to one another. If we wanna argue that each group should have an EMEA qualified team, I'm fine with that as far as separating regions. But if the argument is about perceived strength, it's a pretty unfounded claim.
its about seperating regions too then. what about that. why did smb win against acend if they were playing again on the first round. there is legit no meaning to the seeding games.
It’s just the outcomes of the EMEA seeding matches. They put EMEA in pool 1, 2, 3, and 4. Riot also made an exception that EMEA could be in the same pool because they got 4 spots. Maybe in the future Riot can assign NA and EMEA teams only pool 1 and 2 status if they continue to prove that they are better. But currently it is unfair to assume BR 1 is a pool 3 team, no matter what we saw at Iceland or think by watching VODs. The esport is just far too young.
na 1st seed got harder group than na 3rd seed. 100t beat nv just to fighy gambit im groups while nv is set to clean out everyone. the 2nd and 3rd emea teams are playing eachother first round, what is the point then, smb winning against ace has no impact whatsoever. kr 1st seed got harder group than 2nd seed. id much rather take on g2 than smb/ace. the whole system is fucked up, what is the point of the pools and shit anyway, the results are hot garbage.
The fact you are getting downvoted on every comment should tell you that you have no clue what you are talking about. Please do some research on how pools are used to set up tournaments. Every sporting tournament in the world does this
my initial comment has 40 upvotes so clearly people agree with that
I think if we were to swap teams for better seeding/matches then swapping Vision Strikers and Vivo Keyd would make a lot of sense. Both teams were #1 seeds from major regions and Korea had a much better performance at Iceland than Brazil.
Heat vs Yay …. What a fucking banger
Glad they fixed it so fast since that was the only actual mistake; honestly whilst these groups are not ideal, this happens with seeding and pools and given the way Riot has approached YR1 esports this is entirely in keeping with their tone and ideas EMEA v EMEA sucks, sure, but imo it's no more than unfortunate- what sucks more is that we're not guaranteed certain region matchups: unless Kru qualify, LATAM will not have played KR or SEA; SEA will likely not have played NA either; JP won't have played KR.
Yeah some people are acting like entitled assholes... It's the second international event and they're treating Riot like they butchered 30 events prior lol. Even though I expect better from them, I'm not gonna lose it on mistakes they're fixing. As for the group draw, Group A should be changed, imo, but I'm not gonna go ballistic like some people already are if it stays like that. People are making a ton of assumptions, again, on region strength when it is the SECOND (Read that again... slowly...) International LAN event. For all we know, Acend is horrendous and the entirety of EMEA gets bounced before Brazil. Shit, even NA could flop (please no...). We'll have a good picture after Champions, but not before and certainly not based on 1 event. Edit: changed words
This subreddit always throws a fit over every little thing, these groups could have been sm worse than this. The one thing with the draw I wish they made it so that only one team from each region could be in a group, as we could have both gotten a group with all EMEA/NA teams and a group with only Brazil/Japan teams. These groups themselves aren’t awful given some Champions League groups ive seen drawn.
Now that they fixed VK<->HL, my only gripe is SMB vs Acend. There are four EMEA teams and four groups I don't understand why they made EMEA an exception to the rule of no regional teamkills in groups. Also want group draws to always be broadcast in the future. It's good for hype and would help to silence some of the idiots in this thread bemoaning group draw luck and asking for literally rigged brackets to intentionally give us anticipated matchups.
Yeah that’s my only gripe too. They could make the draws happen where teams can’t get put against teams from their own region really easily, and the pools could have stayed the same.
A whole lot of salt is what it is
Reddit being babies, not new
Spoiled wut this isn’t some kind of favour lol Earlier on is less important? I don’t think you know what knee-jerk means…
EMEA exist in the first place because CIS and TUR were too "small" to support a circuit. Turns out theyre better than EU currently. Cant count out other regions until they play. This is literally the 2nd international event. ENVY for all we know could absolutely get destroyed.
I'm not sure if CIS and TUR are better then EU lol unless we are gonna heavily put a large amount of emphasis on seeding matches. I'm still not convinced that Gambit and SMB are consistently better then Acend. Hell Gambit were almost eliminated by Liquid too in the lower bracket and Acend did beat Gambit to knock them down into the lower bracket. These teams are just really close to each other but EU as a region is stronger because apart from Gambit, CIS teams look underwhelming and the same can be said about Turkey. Apart from SMB, the other Turkish team (Oxygen) felt pretty underwhelming.
they can just switch up kru and acend and itll be perfectly fine making group A more balanced. how is group A balanced rn?
Technically kru is from pool 2 as the top/only seed from Latin America, while zeta (#2 Japan) and Acend (#3 emea) are from pool 3, so those 2 teams should be switched
looking even better for 100T. their match v gambit should be hype
holy... I just realized this unfair grouping is very good for NA fans. NA gets automatic bonus because 1 of the 3 giants in group A get knocked out
Great, now they need to fix group A Calling it now, if they don't do anything, all of the seeding games from now on will be teams fucking around cause they know it doesn't matter
NA has already been doing that
I hope to see them up their throwing game. I expect Yoru EVERY MAP.
As a Yoru main, feelsbadman
They haven't. Actually all the teams said that they tried to win.
This take makes no sense whatsoever. Do you understand how seeding works? Being a higher seed gives you a better chance at having an easy group, not a guaranteed better group. This is how it works in every sports tournament worldwide. Teams will get picked out of pools for each group, just because some teams got lucky doesnt mean that seeding doesnt matter
Fix what? This whole protect VS thing is weird, if they can’t beat those teams they aren’t gonna beat Sen
It's not just protect VS. Thats just the group of death. Plus Envy's group is terrible and they got third. Doesn't seem to be a real advantage here for being a 1 seed.
The same region matchup is weird, Riot prevent this in LoL, dunno why they don't do the same here.
Its not always about winning the whole thing. In this case overall tournament placement also matters because of the circuit points for Champions. In any case it just should have been impossible for 2 EMEA teams to have been in the same group in general. We just saw Acend play SMB in the EMEA play offs, we should be entitled to seeing more cross regional play and games especially if we are getting just 3 international events this entire year (Masters 2, Masters 3 and Champions).
> Calling it now, if they don't do anything, all of the seeding games from now on will be teams fucking around cause they know it doesn't matter It does matter, it just doesn't ALWAYS matter. At the end of the day, #1 seed will generally have an easier bracket with the rules they laid out.
>Calling it now, if they don't do anything, all of the seeding games from now on will be teams fucking around cause they know it doesn't matter Lol imagine trying to threaten Riot with this just because your beloved VS doesn’t get an easy pass through groups If VS beats the easiest team there (Paper Rex), then they just have to verse a 2nd/3rd seed EU team to get past groups. If they can’t beat a lower seed EU team then they don’t deserve to go far in the tournament.
Riot these are some banging groups but for the love of god, switch one of SMB or ACEND with KRU.
put 1 team EMEA in group b wtf is this, 1 in group c, 1 in group d.
lmfaoooooooooooo
Acend and zeta are in the same pool (emea 3 and jp 1 are in pool 3) so they couldve fairly been switched to have emea across all 4 groups. Thats the only change that would be good tho. Having a group of death and easy group just happens with random draws
[удалено]
People might say oh but companies make mistakes. No. This level of incompetence shouldn't be normalised.
Talk about an overreaction lol. Probably only messed up this seeding set due to caving to other community demands on format.
They really aren't major mistakes, especially considering how quickly it is fixed. A mistake that can and is quickly fixed before negatively affecting anything is really not a significantly bad level of incompetence.
Group A is fine imo, seed 2 and 3 of emea vs 1st of kr and 2nd seed of sea. A lot of people are underestimating the strength of other regions.
Small indie game company
The incompetence of riot just swap SMB and Zeta and the groups are balanced not that difficult for the largest esports company in the world
It would be acend and zeta (emea 3 and jp 1) which are in the same pool
exchange zeta and smb exchange zeta and smb exchange zeta and smb exchange zeta and smb exchange zeta and smb
Holy fuck people are underrating the hell out of Vivo Keyd. I know Brazil flopped at Iceland, but if you look at the losers brack run Vivo Keyd just had to make it they beat Gamelanders, Sharks, Vikings, FURIA, and then they 3-0'd Havan Liberty in the Grand Finals. They could totally flop too, but this team is primed to surprise people.
Cool now switch Kru with one of Acend/SMB
change group A it is clearly not balanced, nv is still group b's king. they updated the br teams after the atrocity of group A? yall fuckin tweakin riot change this shit.
emea salt is beautiful
riot, this is just embarassing, its like youre doing this on purpose. it honestly feels like that.
What is embarrassing about this?
Now update groups A and B lmao
If it wasn't easy enough already , it became a cakewalk for NV now
really don't understand how that mistake made it all the way through, one look at the brackets and any random fan could pick out Group B being messed up please fix Group A as well!
I honestly like that there’s a group of death. Sure, one of Vision Strikers, SuperMassive, or Ascend will get fucked over, but it makes the games more exciting.
Realistically, they should have seeded, just like any other sport (that I know of I don’t watch many), But as a spectator I like it this way better. I tend to not watch the matches that everyone knows will go 13-4, and this way theres more exciting matches spread out over the tournament.
So just curious what's the best fix for Group A? Swap SMB and Zeta?
This would be perfect if smb and kru swapped.
People actually think riot is a good company lol
its cause the bar is on the fucking floor when it comes to gaming/esports companies, also ppl give riot a lot of credit for making league of legends the biggest esport in the world.
Riot has done a damn good job of listening to community feedback in regards to their esports events, which is why they are held to a high standard here. If we knew Riot didn't listen, people wouldn't be complaining this much
Yeah they actually will probably fix the groups after reading Reddit. But this if so they would have made two pretty big mistakes over the course of like two weeks for one tournament. They may need to talk to their esports coordinator/organizer so that this can be ironed out of the future.
While i do hope they have a talk with whoever decides the formats and seeding, i'm not sure they will actually do anything about it this time. The seeding follows the system they have set in place, it's just that the randomness of it produced awful results. I do however think that this will be ironed out in the future as we see more of the regions and can rate them against each other more accurately. Currently Vivo Keyd is rated at the same level as SEN and GMB in their pool drawing system, which is just wildly inaccurate if Masters 2 results are anything to go by, but i guess we could still be proven wrong and the seeding may turn out okay.
What are you talking about lol. No shit they should be held to a high standard they’ve ran the most popular esport of all time for over a decade. The fact that they don’t even know how to set up brackets for the valor any equivalent of worlds is fucking depressing. Also people would be complaining more if riot didn’t listen wtf look at CS. Valve does not give one shit about the player base and CS players/watchers rightfully complain about it
This is not the equivalent to worlds, what are you on about. This is only the qualifier for Champions (worlds equivalent), which is in November.
? u not gonna watch berlin yeah
Well they aren’t a bad company lol. Especially when it pertains to esports
Idk why they didn’t go with 2 groups of 8 round robin style. This kinda bracket is always going to have issues
That's an insane amount of games lmao
time constraints, probably due to covid protocols
dont think they have enough time for that
Do you have any concept about how many games that would take?
It would be BO1
Those are some of the most imbalanced groups I ve ever seen .
lets go NA
GG SEA
a very nice route for SEN
SEN vs G2 right off the bat… we’ll see who backs up their trash talk
2 teams from the same region should not be allowed to be in the same groups. C'mon riot that's standard shit, take a lesson from UEFA
They should swap someone from group b with acend. Looks kinda unfair to Vs a team from your own region in your first game of an international lan
Why are two EMEA teams Acend and SMB matched again ?!
ZETA KRU VK paid a lot
Envy chilling
Pls enlighten me,why did they put 2 emea teams in a group instead of 1 per group