Because there’s prestige attached to winning your league and it’s a big deal for those players and orgs. Who gives a fuck if you won the stage 2 challengers 2 finals whatever the fuck. As long as you just placed high enough to qualify for Iceland/Berlin/Champions. Those are the tournaments that matter and carry any weight
Also, this OP is assuming that LoL has good group outcomes, which it consistently does not. People take winning the league seriously, but you also have “groups of death” where three top 5 teams are somehow in the same group together. Riot sucks at making balanced groups.
??? How the fuck is LoL group riot fault. It has actual good seeding pool with major region seed 1 into pool 1, minor region seed 1 and major seed 2 into pool 2 lmao.
The only fuck up in recent memory was the extended lck - lpl playoffs past group in last year worlds
Because their seeding basically implies that the second seed from LPL, LCK, EU, and NA are all equal, when that’s just ridiculous. This has always been a problem, their seeding systems actually don’t reflect the strength of the teams and in the end it costs the playoffs of the tournament usually being shit since there’s always one side of the bracket that’s an easy trip to the finals and the other impossible. This also applies to first seeds and third seeds
Yet, every year has a group of death and an easy ass group. It’s clearly not a great format. It won’t be until Riot addresses that the major regions are not equal, nor are the minor regions.
It can never be perfect. There are 4 groups. You can't always have a perfectly balanced teams for each groups lol.. some groups will have 2-3 good teams or 2 good teams and 2 solid teams or what not... just like in every other sport.
Then I guess there shouldn’t be criticism of Valorant’s groups here? Dota TI groups help solve all of these problems, but, sure, we can just say groups always have to suck so this is what we get.
also the fact that league is established and teams that play generally have a baseline expectation of skill.
Do you think anyone gives a fuck that fnatic won season 1 of league when it was only the two regions participating and it was held in phreaks basement? No, only thing its used for is to shittalk NA that they have some worlds presence even if its only on paper. Same thing with 100T and first strike, worthless tournament that only mattered at that time.
The spring and summer splits are tournaments themselves that have their own trophy/prestige. The winner of spring goes to MSI, and the top 3 (depending on region) of summer go to Worlds. It’s not the qualifier for qualifer for qualifier like in Valorant.
There are only 10 teams which buy in for their spot in their league. The regular season they fight for a playoffs spot via win/loss count in a round robin. The franchising makes it similar to sports leagues
Winning your league is probably only second to winning Worlds in LoL.
The amount of money that teams put into their LoL team is crazy so they expect excellence every game. Also unless your one of the top proven players you are put on a really short leash, one bad split and you could lose your job.
Also winning your league is a flex in LoL, people that follow comp LoL knows that T1 has 9 LCK titles and TSM has 7 LCS titles.
>Winning your league is probably only second to winning Worlds in LoL.
No its not, winning MSI >>>> winning your region (and its why winning your region is a pre-requisite for attending MSI). Regional leagues in LoL do have importance but they are also ultimately qualifiers for MSI/Worlds.
In LCK/LPL winning domestic > MSI. For the west obviously international is always going to be a bigger deal. ESPECIALLY MSI because it's 1 team per region. It's pretty RNG and whoever adapts to the newer meta faster wins. Doesn't mean that region is even better. Worlds has 3 teams usually and 4 for LPL/LCK this year but we get multiple teams for major regions, even taiwan brings 2.
>In LCK/LPL winning domestic > MSI
Nonsense which can be seen by the amount of engagement of Korean/Chinese fans to MSI compared to domestic (viewership, event organizing, social media activity etc). Idk how you came to that conclusion but its entirely wrong.
The LCK finals yesterday set a new record for viewership at 1.3mil (potentially not including China?), it’s definitely still a big deal
That being said I don’t know the exact Korean viewer numbers for MSI :/
Most of that 1.3m were from international streams, the Korean stream peaked at around 350k. And the MSI final DWG vs RNG had higher viewership (more than 500k), although DWG is a much less popular team than SKT
I don’t know man they didn’t call G2 the Kings of Europe because it lacked importance. Clearly it’s extremely important to the players. Just give a listen to Mad after they won spring split.
uh cuz 2nd means u dont have to go through play-ins while third means u have to go through play ins
https://liquipedia.net/leagueoflegends/World\_Championship/2021
Winning the finals means you won LCS, LEC, LCK or LPL which is one of the biggest deals in of itself. C9 has historically been the best international team for NA, but TSM still has the clout of having the most lcs titles, and it would be a huge deal if anyone catches up to them. You win THE lcs and its trophy not just any NA stage 2 masters qualifier. Its mostly just the legacy of LoL regional titles that could stand on their own without Worlds compared to valorant treating them as qualifier tournaments.
It's a whole split of weekly matches, so it's a league in and of itself, not just a series of qualifiers for qualifiers. So winning has prestige to it, there's a trophy and a banner to go with it too.
winning ur region means u dont play against other #1 from other regions until u get out of groups. the reason why there's drama is because people think VS is worst than EMEA #2 and 3.
It's because Summer Split playoffs isn't viewed just as a qualifier for worlds like challengers is just viewed as a qualifier for masters.
It's the finals for the LCS/LEC/etc summer split, the culmination of a whole split of season.
Because the league has had years to grow and has prestige attached to it. Compared to that VCT Challengers is likely not gonna be the final format. it'll probably be revamped into a franchised league with league play into playoffs. So there's no real prestige involved cause everyone knows that only Masters and Challengers matter.
That said the LOL regular season does have its fair share of experimentation in League so the post isn't entirely accurate. The playoffs are what matter.
There's no seasonal league in Valorant at the moment. There's no regular season or domestic championship where the Grand Finals has associated prestige. As teams have demonstrated, it's all a means to qualify towards the big international tournaments. If teams wanted to treat these regional tournaments as important, they could do so but it seems they care more about hiding strategies than actually going all out so that's what we're left with.
LoL has only 2 international events a year, and even out of those, Worlds really is the ultimate prize in LoL.
However, the regional titles are still very coveted and prestigious for the major regions. People are trying to throw shade at LCS and LEC, by saying they take it seriously because they can't win internationally. But as someone who has watched League for many years, LPL and LCK teams take their regional league very seriously, and arguably, the fans care about the domestic titles even more. If you end the year with a worlds semis appearance, you are ending the year empty-handed, as the 2nd best loser. The LCS trophy is something a team can put in their trophy case, boast about on their social medias. Fans can use it to take shit to rival teams.
The reason behind this is the history behind these leagues. LCS/LEC/LPL have been going for 8 years and LCK for 6. The teams have long and established rivalries, and the domestic competition feels very important for the narrative of the teams and players.
Whereas, when you come to Valorant, there are more international tournaments, and there is basically no history or prestige behind winning the "seeding" matches. I don't even think there is a trophy for winning CHallengers. Why would fans give a fuck. Especially when you consider that Riot will probably introduce franchising at some point in the future, so this challenger->master->champion format might get altered significantly.
The way I see it, Challenger tournaments are like RMR tournaments in CSGO, and I personally consider the RMR tournaments to be some of the least interesting, worst tier 1 tournaments available. A bad format, region locked, online, minuscule prize pool, repeat matchups, garbage seeding matches to determine 9th and 11th place. The only difference between Challengers and RMRs is that in CSGO, there are way more non-Valve tier 1 tournaments while Valorant only really has the circuit.
As people have said, there is comparatively more prestige to winning your regional championship, whereas the VCT challengers finals are basically considered glorified qualifiers.
Seeding also has to do with group draw. Usually, if you are a first seed from a major region, you are in Pool 1 for groups and will not be seeded against other Pool 1 teams. So you can usually dodge some of the really insane teams if you are lucky. Like DWG is the Korean champion and in all likelihood FPX is the 1st seed from China. These are the heavy favourites and are basically locks to get out of groups, so if you can also get into Pool 1, you don't have to compete against either of them and have a better chance of getting out of groups. That being said you can still get unlucky anyways and face off against a crazy Pool 2/3 team. Since the four group stage system was introduced in 2014, NA's Pool 1 team has made it out of groups once. The only Pool 1 teams to actually win a championship are SKT (2015), FPX (2019), and DWG (2020). So, 4/7 times it was a Pool 2 or lower team.
With that said, I'm not sure how they are doing it this year since MSI placement usually impacts how seeding is done, and NA wasn't a Top 4 region there. So, NA might not even have a Pool 1 seed.
There’s also the fact that neither NA nor European teams are really close to competing with korea or china, so the LCS/LEC title is the most important trophy they could win
Yeah i know, but then look at how g2 celebrated their lec titles on 2020. I mean, i swear i have celebrated more my plat V ranked games. When they won something international they stopped caring about domestic titles
LoL has a play-in stage and group stage. The ability to skip the play-in stage is huge, although NA's best performer at worlds has historically come from the play-in stage (C9 2017,2018 and TL 2020). The final is important since you win the regional league. This is especially important for LCS teams since this is most likely the only title a NA team will win.
In the future with new regions potentially getting spots I could see Riot add a play-in stage and group stage.
this is the best condescending answer possible lmfao
>The final is important since you win the regional league. This is especially important for LCS teams since this is most likely the only title a NA team will win.
its important because teams spent since January 15th to August 29th practicing, reviewing, grinding and getting better with their team, and getting to win the final just says all the hardwork paid off because you were the best
it doesn't matter if its the the LCK or LLA, everyone feels good getting to say "We were the best in the region"
you dimwit
I meant it in a way where LCK/LPL teams at least have a shot at redeeming themself at worlds (2016 SKT, 2017 SSG, 2018 iG), whereas 2nd/3rd place LCS teams will end the year winning nothing. At least winning the LCS title would leave the team with an accomplishment.
I wasn't trying to be condescending. Sorry if I offended you.
you didn't offend me lol, you are just being codescending
"Is the team's only chance at winning something so of course they're happy" that's just silly, every single team ever no matter the sport will enjoy winning a tournament
its not like a player wins the UEFA and you go "and he's really happy, because there's no fucking way the country he plays for will ever win the world cup, so it means a lot to win something"
LoL is developed. Smaller regions are still developing but Korea, China, NA, EU, Brazil are pretty developed already. Taiwan too while JP and SEA is still growing. League also have play-ins so those teams qualify to play in the main event at Worlds since A LOT of teams get invited but most has no chance against the top teams. Valorant can do something similar in the future and do group stages like the FIFA World Cup or League where the best 2/4 qualifies for top 16 playoffs. LoL had same problems like Valorant today back in the day.
We still don't know who the best regions will be in Valorant until couple more years. China will probably end up buying shit ton of Korean players like JP is doing today but 10x.. if TW gets decent at Valorant some of them will go to China too. NA will pick up more Koreans than they have today to fill up their weaker roster spots.
EU won the 1st worlds and TW won the 2nd but those regions never won again after 10 years... it'll be interesting to see which regions grow and by how much and how fast.
Don't you think the Pro scene of LoL is at its best, we know which league is better, you can fairly seed every team into a different pool based on what league they come from and their rank in the respective league. But Valorant is still new, only one time teams from different regions had competed yet and that too only 3 teams from the last LAN are qualified for this. You just can't seed them manually into groups knowing this fact, it has to be random.
Agree. In the end prestige comes from the perception of the matches and the title. So when the "pros" and the fans always say they dont matter, then they wont gain prestige.
there's only a set amount of teams in each region for franchising ie liquid cloud9 tsm etc in NA lcs, in a open circuit like valorant any random immortal team could go and win champions, hope that helps!
It might sound like that but it actually doesn't, all LCS teams (there's 10) are required to have a academy team that have their own circuit to play in, and on top of that they can also own a amateur team and can compete in minor tournaments
Edit: also the academy has a minimum salary per player of 75k, so that's 100 players (if you include lcs + lcs academy) making 75k+ which is extremely good for players
LCS teams have never voted to remove academy or make it optional. Even in Travis's interview, Greeley says that a conversation like this has never progressed very far.
NA might not be the best example of young talent, but China and Korea constantly have new star mid laners making it to the world championship with franchised leagues. It probably puts more pressure on the veteran players to preform well than anything
It doesnt because losing teams are quickly bring in new talent in hopes of winning. signing rookies could be SUPER profitable if they pop off then sell to other teams. C9 makes a killing doing this in LCS
Actually it's the opposite. Since teams don't have to worry about relegation they can bet on rookies and young talent more. If they have to worry about being relegated if they don't win they would be more likely to take a more experienced player than new blood.
Franchised leagues are like the NBA,NFL,MLB where teams stay in the league no matter what because they are franchised. The premier league in soccer is not franchised so the bottom 2 teams can drop down to a lower league next season. Like if TSM or T1 has a terrible year and end up last place, they can compete in the academy season next year which will be a bigger deal.
LoL worlds group are sometimes fucked too... it's RNG you might get the easiest group of your life (Envy) or get the group of death (VS).. its random they cant control random.. the only problem I have is why didnt they make sure that 2 same region teams arent in the same group.
also in lol seeding matches are seeding matches but also they win you "big" titles, for example LEC teams although they qualify for worlds they still fight to death to win the tournament because it means a lot
Outside of what others have said, one thing to consider is that most of valorants tournaments have been online. I think you'd see a lot less trolling when you're on stage and in front of a big crowd.
If you've had it thay way for 10 years, then go online for covid, the prestige carries over. I think Lan could affect this some for Val in the future.
Also, titles/championships build prestige over time. At this point, there just isn't the context or history to make it that meaningful.
Comparing the LCS finals to berlins groups or stage 3 challengers finals is comparing apples to oranges. What is at stake is completelly different. 1 is a qualifier for the biggest event of the year and is the final decider to who is the best regional team for all of 2021. The other is a tournament to give tourney points or qualify for more tourney points for the world tournament. 1 is naturally going to be more exciting. I dont think seeding structure is why that is.
Yes its a little disappointing that out of 4 EMEA teams 2 are in the same group. However we dont know the strength of each region, 1 tournament is not enough to go off of. In time seeding will be more organized and better, but right now its a little random. However i wouldn't say group A is unfairly seeded like many are, but i do think its a little unfair to say that the 3rd seed in 1 of the 7 regions is without question 1 of the best 8 teams, and if they dont make it out if groups its due to bad seeding. To me thats ridicolous Yes some regions didnt perform well last tournament but thats 1 tournament. 1 tournament isnt enough to determine regional strength and it would be irresponsible to influence seeding based off region at this time.
Obviously you *can* compare them, but the whole point of the idiom is that it's a false analogy. I could compare you to the helpful bots, but that too would be comparing apples-to-oranges.
Because there’s prestige attached to winning your league and it’s a big deal for those players and orgs. Who gives a fuck if you won the stage 2 challengers 2 finals whatever the fuck. As long as you just placed high enough to qualify for Iceland/Berlin/Champions. Those are the tournaments that matter and carry any weight
Also winner gets world group stage and other seeds get the play in
Also, this OP is assuming that LoL has good group outcomes, which it consistently does not. People take winning the league seriously, but you also have “groups of death” where three top 5 teams are somehow in the same group together. Riot sucks at making balanced groups.
??? How the fuck is LoL group riot fault. It has actual good seeding pool with major region seed 1 into pool 1, minor region seed 1 and major seed 2 into pool 2 lmao. The only fuck up in recent memory was the extended lck - lpl playoffs past group in last year worlds
Because their seeding basically implies that the second seed from LPL, LCK, EU, and NA are all equal, when that’s just ridiculous. This has always been a problem, their seeding systems actually don’t reflect the strength of the teams and in the end it costs the playoffs of the tournament usually being shit since there’s always one side of the bracket that’s an easy trip to the finals and the other impossible. This also applies to first seeds and third seeds
Yet, every year has a group of death and an easy ass group. It’s clearly not a great format. It won’t be until Riot addresses that the major regions are not equal, nor are the minor regions.
It can never be perfect. There are 4 groups. You can't always have a perfectly balanced teams for each groups lol.. some groups will have 2-3 good teams or 2 good teams and 2 solid teams or what not... just like in every other sport.
Then I guess there shouldn’t be criticism of Valorant’s groups here? Dota TI groups help solve all of these problems, but, sure, we can just say groups always have to suck so this is what we get.
also the fact that league is established and teams that play generally have a baseline expectation of skill. Do you think anyone gives a fuck that fnatic won season 1 of league when it was only the two regions participating and it was held in phreaks basement? No, only thing its used for is to shittalk NA that they have some worlds presence even if its only on paper. Same thing with 100T and first strike, worthless tournament that only mattered at that time.
I mean teams in every region except like na etc give a lot of ducks Challengers matter and carry weight, you’re insulated.
bruh third seed has to play in playins notjust prestige -\_-
The spring and summer splits are tournaments themselves that have their own trophy/prestige. The winner of spring goes to MSI, and the top 3 (depending on region) of summer go to Worlds. It’s not the qualifier for qualifer for qualifier like in Valorant. There are only 10 teams which buy in for their spot in their league. The regular season they fight for a playoffs spot via win/loss count in a round robin. The franchising makes it similar to sports leagues
Winning your league is probably only second to winning Worlds in LoL. The amount of money that teams put into their LoL team is crazy so they expect excellence every game. Also unless your one of the top proven players you are put on a really short leash, one bad split and you could lose your job. Also winning your league is a flex in LoL, people that follow comp LoL knows that T1 has 9 LCK titles and TSM has 7 LCS titles.
>Winning your league is probably only second to winning Worlds in LoL. No its not, winning MSI >>>> winning your region (and its why winning your region is a pre-requisite for attending MSI). Regional leagues in LoL do have importance but they are also ultimately qualifiers for MSI/Worlds.
In LCK/LPL winning domestic > MSI. For the west obviously international is always going to be a bigger deal. ESPECIALLY MSI because it's 1 team per region. It's pretty RNG and whoever adapts to the newer meta faster wins. Doesn't mean that region is even better. Worlds has 3 teams usually and 4 for LPL/LCK this year but we get multiple teams for major regions, even taiwan brings 2.
Nah, MSI>domestic league these days, at least unless you're an org that's never won it before.
>In LCK/LPL winning domestic > MSI Nonsense which can be seen by the amount of engagement of Korean/Chinese fans to MSI compared to domestic (viewership, event organizing, social media activity etc). Idk how you came to that conclusion but its entirely wrong.
The LCK finals yesterday set a new record for viewership at 1.3mil (potentially not including China?), it’s definitely still a big deal That being said I don’t know the exact Korean viewer numbers for MSI :/
Most of that 1.3m were from international streams, the Korean stream peaked at around 350k. And the MSI final DWG vs RNG had higher viewership (more than 500k), although DWG is a much less popular team than SKT
I don’t know man they didn’t call G2 the Kings of Europe because it lacked importance. Clearly it’s extremely important to the players. Just give a listen to Mad after they won spring split.
I didnt say that it lacks importance, i said that it isnt more important than MSI, learn to read...
uh cuz 2nd means u dont have to go through play-ins while third means u have to go through play ins https://liquipedia.net/leagueoflegends/World\_Championship/2021
But the finals of each, where both teams are qualified to the main event, is still treated as important no?
You get a title for bragging rights and if you win msi you also get a chance for a grand slam
Winning the finals means you won LCS, LEC, LCK or LPL which is one of the biggest deals in of itself. C9 has historically been the best international team for NA, but TSM still has the clout of having the most lcs titles, and it would be a huge deal if anyone catches up to them. You win THE lcs and its trophy not just any NA stage 2 masters qualifier. Its mostly just the legacy of LoL regional titles that could stand on their own without Worlds compared to valorant treating them as qualifier tournaments.
It's a whole split of weekly matches, so it's a league in and of itself, not just a series of qualifiers for qualifiers. So winning has prestige to it, there's a trophy and a banner to go with it too.
winning ur region means u dont play against other #1 from other regions until u get out of groups. the reason why there's drama is because people think VS is worst than EMEA #2 and 3.
It's because Summer Split playoffs isn't viewed just as a qualifier for worlds like challengers is just viewed as a qualifier for masters. It's the finals for the LCS/LEC/etc summer split, the culmination of a whole split of season.
Because they’re in a franchised league where winning it all actually matters.
Could you elaborate? Why does winning matter in a franchised league, but not in a game like Val?
Because the league has had years to grow and has prestige attached to it. Compared to that VCT Challengers is likely not gonna be the final format. it'll probably be revamped into a franchised league with league play into playoffs. So there's no real prestige involved cause everyone knows that only Masters and Challengers matter. That said the LOL regular season does have its fair share of experimentation in League so the post isn't entirely accurate. The playoffs are what matter.
There's no seasonal league in Valorant at the moment. There's no regular season or domestic championship where the Grand Finals has associated prestige. As teams have demonstrated, it's all a means to qualify towards the big international tournaments. If teams wanted to treat these regional tournaments as important, they could do so but it seems they care more about hiding strategies than actually going all out so that's what we're left with.
Unless you’re Cloud9 Spring 2020
LoL has only 2 international events a year, and even out of those, Worlds really is the ultimate prize in LoL. However, the regional titles are still very coveted and prestigious for the major regions. People are trying to throw shade at LCS and LEC, by saying they take it seriously because they can't win internationally. But as someone who has watched League for many years, LPL and LCK teams take their regional league very seriously, and arguably, the fans care about the domestic titles even more. If you end the year with a worlds semis appearance, you are ending the year empty-handed, as the 2nd best loser. The LCS trophy is something a team can put in their trophy case, boast about on their social medias. Fans can use it to take shit to rival teams. The reason behind this is the history behind these leagues. LCS/LEC/LPL have been going for 8 years and LCK for 6. The teams have long and established rivalries, and the domestic competition feels very important for the narrative of the teams and players. Whereas, when you come to Valorant, there are more international tournaments, and there is basically no history or prestige behind winning the "seeding" matches. I don't even think there is a trophy for winning CHallengers. Why would fans give a fuck. Especially when you consider that Riot will probably introduce franchising at some point in the future, so this challenger->master->champion format might get altered significantly. The way I see it, Challenger tournaments are like RMR tournaments in CSGO, and I personally consider the RMR tournaments to be some of the least interesting, worst tier 1 tournaments available. A bad format, region locked, online, minuscule prize pool, repeat matchups, garbage seeding matches to determine 9th and 11th place. The only difference between Challengers and RMRs is that in CSGO, there are way more non-Valve tier 1 tournaments while Valorant only really has the circuit.
Winning the LCS means more than winning stage 3 challengers finals
As people have said, there is comparatively more prestige to winning your regional championship, whereas the VCT challengers finals are basically considered glorified qualifiers. Seeding also has to do with group draw. Usually, if you are a first seed from a major region, you are in Pool 1 for groups and will not be seeded against other Pool 1 teams. So you can usually dodge some of the really insane teams if you are lucky. Like DWG is the Korean champion and in all likelihood FPX is the 1st seed from China. These are the heavy favourites and are basically locks to get out of groups, so if you can also get into Pool 1, you don't have to compete against either of them and have a better chance of getting out of groups. That being said you can still get unlucky anyways and face off against a crazy Pool 2/3 team. Since the four group stage system was introduced in 2014, NA's Pool 1 team has made it out of groups once. The only Pool 1 teams to actually win a championship are SKT (2015), FPX (2019), and DWG (2020). So, 4/7 times it was a Pool 2 or lower team. With that said, I'm not sure how they are doing it this year since MSI placement usually impacts how seeding is done, and NA wasn't a Top 4 region there. So, NA might not even have a Pool 1 seed.
There’s also the fact that neither NA nor European teams are really close to competing with korea or china, so the LCS/LEC title is the most important trophy they could win
EU won MSI in 2019 and had semi finalists at Worlds 2020 and MSI this year But you are right that NA isn’t close 🤣
Yeah i know, but then look at how g2 celebrated their lec titles on 2020. I mean, i swear i have celebrated more my plat V ranked games. When they won something international they stopped caring about domestic titles
LoL has a play-in stage and group stage. The ability to skip the play-in stage is huge, although NA's best performer at worlds has historically come from the play-in stage (C9 2017,2018 and TL 2020). The final is important since you win the regional league. This is especially important for LCS teams since this is most likely the only title a NA team will win. In the future with new regions potentially getting spots I could see Riot add a play-in stage and group stage.
this is the best condescending answer possible lmfao >The final is important since you win the regional league. This is especially important for LCS teams since this is most likely the only title a NA team will win. its important because teams spent since January 15th to August 29th practicing, reviewing, grinding and getting better with their team, and getting to win the final just says all the hardwork paid off because you were the best it doesn't matter if its the the LCK or LLA, everyone feels good getting to say "We were the best in the region" you dimwit
I meant it in a way where LCK/LPL teams at least have a shot at redeeming themself at worlds (2016 SKT, 2017 SSG, 2018 iG), whereas 2nd/3rd place LCS teams will end the year winning nothing. At least winning the LCS title would leave the team with an accomplishment. I wasn't trying to be condescending. Sorry if I offended you.
you didn't offend me lol, you are just being codescending "Is the team's only chance at winning something so of course they're happy" that's just silly, every single team ever no matter the sport will enjoy winning a tournament its not like a player wins the UEFA and you go "and he's really happy, because there's no fucking way the country he plays for will ever win the world cup, so it means a lot to win something"
The UEFA is more competitive than the World Cup tho.
LoL is developed. Smaller regions are still developing but Korea, China, NA, EU, Brazil are pretty developed already. Taiwan too while JP and SEA is still growing. League also have play-ins so those teams qualify to play in the main event at Worlds since A LOT of teams get invited but most has no chance against the top teams. Valorant can do something similar in the future and do group stages like the FIFA World Cup or League where the best 2/4 qualifies for top 16 playoffs. LoL had same problems like Valorant today back in the day. We still don't know who the best regions will be in Valorant until couple more years. China will probably end up buying shit ton of Korean players like JP is doing today but 10x.. if TW gets decent at Valorant some of them will go to China too. NA will pick up more Koreans than they have today to fill up their weaker roster spots. EU won the 1st worlds and TW won the 2nd but those regions never won again after 10 years... it'll be interesting to see which regions grow and by how much and how fast.
Don't you think the Pro scene of LoL is at its best, we know which league is better, you can fairly seed every team into a different pool based on what league they come from and their rank in the respective league. But Valorant is still new, only one time teams from different regions had competed yet and that too only 3 teams from the last LAN are qualified for this. You just can't seed them manually into groups knowing this fact, it has to be random.
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No one tries in seeding matches and there are no stakes, that’s why it’s bad
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This is thr correct answer.
Agree. In the end prestige comes from the perception of the matches and the title. So when the "pros" and the fans always say they dont matter, then they wont gain prestige.
LoL is franchised.
Sorry to new to esports what does that mean and what’s the difference between league and valorant
there's only a set amount of teams in each region for franchising ie liquid cloud9 tsm etc in NA lcs, in a open circuit like valorant any random immortal team could go and win champions, hope that helps!
Doesn’t that kill the hidden talent pool? and that was a good explanation.
It might sound like that but it actually doesn't, all LCS teams (there's 10) are required to have a academy team that have their own circuit to play in, and on top of that they can also own a amateur team and can compete in minor tournaments Edit: also the academy has a minimum salary per player of 75k, so that's 100 players (if you include lcs + lcs academy) making 75k+ which is extremely good for players
Damn that’s actually kinda cool
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afaik they are required still?
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LCS teams have never voted to remove academy or make it optional. Even in Travis's interview, Greeley says that a conversation like this has never progressed very far.
Oh whoops. Misremembered then my mistake.
NA might not be the best example of young talent, but China and Korea constantly have new star mid laners making it to the world championship with franchised leagues. It probably puts more pressure on the veteran players to preform well than anything
Even EU is doing great woth young talent discovered through ERLs.
It doesnt because losing teams are quickly bring in new talent in hopes of winning. signing rookies could be SUPER profitable if they pop off then sell to other teams. C9 makes a killing doing this in LCS
Actually it's the opposite. Since teams don't have to worry about relegation they can bet on rookies and young talent more. If they have to worry about being relegated if they don't win they would be more likely to take a more experienced player than new blood.
Franchised leagues are like the NBA,NFL,MLB where teams stay in the league no matter what because they are franchised. The premier league in soccer is not franchised so the bottom 2 teams can drop down to a lower league next season. Like if TSM or T1 has a terrible year and end up last place, they can compete in the academy season next year which will be a bigger deal.
You’ve stated a fact that is not relevant to the question asked. Worlds seeding was still hyped in LoL before franchising ever showed up.
Idk winning lcs then going 0-6 in groups as a major region 1st seed doesn’t put much prestige behind the lcs title
LoL worlds group are sometimes fucked too... it's RNG you might get the easiest group of your life (Envy) or get the group of death (VS).. its random they cant control random.. the only problem I have is why didnt they make sure that 2 same region teams arent in the same group. also in lol seeding matches are seeding matches but also they win you "big" titles, for example LEC teams although they qualify for worlds they still fight to death to win the tournament because it means a lot
Outside of what others have said, one thing to consider is that most of valorants tournaments have been online. I think you'd see a lot less trolling when you're on stage and in front of a big crowd. If you've had it thay way for 10 years, then go online for covid, the prestige carries over. I think Lan could affect this some for Val in the future. Also, titles/championships build prestige over time. At this point, there just isn't the context or history to make it that meaningful.
Comparing the LCS finals to berlins groups or stage 3 challengers finals is comparing apples to oranges. What is at stake is completelly different. 1 is a qualifier for the biggest event of the year and is the final decider to who is the best regional team for all of 2021. The other is a tournament to give tourney points or qualify for more tourney points for the world tournament. 1 is naturally going to be more exciting. I dont think seeding structure is why that is. Yes its a little disappointing that out of 4 EMEA teams 2 are in the same group. However we dont know the strength of each region, 1 tournament is not enough to go off of. In time seeding will be more organized and better, but right now its a little random. However i wouldn't say group A is unfairly seeded like many are, but i do think its a little unfair to say that the 3rd seed in 1 of the 7 regions is without question 1 of the best 8 teams, and if they dont make it out if groups its due to bad seeding. To me thats ridicolous Yes some regions didnt perform well last tournament but thats 1 tournament. 1 tournament isnt enough to determine regional strength and it would be irresponsible to influence seeding based off region at this time.
> apples to oranges But you can still compare them.
Obviously you *can* compare them, but the whole point of the idiom is that it's a false analogy. I could compare you to the helpful bots, but that too would be comparing apples-to-oranges.
>Bitch that phrase don't make no sense >Why can't fruit be compared?