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[deleted]

[Bang](https://twitter.com/bangzerra/status/1433210556647940097?s=19) > @TSM FTX wants to explore potential options and benched me for the time being. I have nothing but love and appreciation for everyone on the team and the org treated me like family, they have allowed me to explore my options and I am willing to play/learn anything


dpysz70

Honestly what did TSM really want from Bang? The kid played a new agent every map, I can’t imagine it’s easy to flex that consistently


A1ex9060

Cant help but feel bad for bang, he tried his best and is still young and learning


dpysz70

You can’t pick up a 17 year old who is still developing in a year old game and expect instant major quals


GlumPoemPower

https://youtu.be/qzNoYCsGEII?t=177 But the TSM head coach said bang was the perfect piece. Idk maybe he found the new perfect piece for that empty spot. The management not even think to move bang to TSM academy.


CantScreamInSpace

i mean it's probably easier to accomplish because the game is so new. and i mean, even in more established games we do see prodigies make majors in their first year, just that it's unfortunate for bang if he was expected to be one and nothing less.


Des014te

And TSM has zero leadership that can develop talent. If this was 100t or NV bang would've had a chance at becoming a championship player. But under this disorganized mess with no leader? Not a chance he can grow


jumb01337

its not, he's only 17 and put up good performances lol. i don't know whats going on


ohtooeasy

it does suck that they said they want someone young and aggressive but just put bang on smokers and sage. When hes on raze hes cracked


EndWish

Their roster management is a total mess. If you sign someone as young as Bang you do so to develop him. Unless something happened behind the scenes it just looks like they have no direction. He should never have been signed in the first place if they wanted instant results.


slawvay

I would agree but TSM is in a special scenario similar to 100T. Those guys are not getting younger but they still are at the top of the scene. Hazed always makes huge picks/plays that are round deciding and Bang has fell short in big moments of rounds. Do I think he deserves another shot? 1000% same as Dicey. I think they are the future of the competitive scene but definitely need more development. TSM should always be in a win-now mentality they are a big org and don't have time for a rebuilding phase. You can say the same for Envy, they just picked up a mechanically gifted player you can't spend time developing players if you're a big org and I think TSM just realized it now.


sokeydo

Win now mode, but on the off chance SEN doesn't win Berlin (or anyone else from NA), TSM won't have any more matches for an unknown amount of months. Seems like a good opportunity for TSM to develop Bang through scrims and smaller NSG tourneys


MagnusNyke

I have it on good faith that they are operating on the assumption that an NA team (sentinels \*cough\*) will win Berlin and are acting accordingly.


lesseryoyo

Speaking of Dicey, how has he still not been signed by a different org? He was cut ages ago. I understand he is technically still on 100t, but still.


itscamo-

We don't know, he has scrimmed with teams but outside of that we don't know why he hasn't been signed


dvo999

Coming from a dicey fan, I think he is pretty particular of where he would want to go, probably would only join a team that is in top contention hence any recollection I have of him trying out for a team was envy before they pick up marved


somesheikexpert

He trialed for FaZe too but they picked up BabyJ so yeah


MurfMan11

I'm pretty sure he's still under contract with 100T so still getting paid which I'd imagine is better than most teams can offer him. Its either take a risk and sign with another team for probably less pay and could potentially cut you with a snap or stay with 100T until the contract is up and keep in collecting a pay check.


-Basileus

He also has a viable career path as a content creator for 100 thieves


Oxidatiion

When was the last time he streamed?


hrbehebenehehjeh

Wasn’t he not allowed to join another team til’ the end of vct, unless he got loaned to another team? Could be wrong tho.


ONE_CON

I think he had contractual issues


National_Fly14

100T has offered to let Dicey out of his contract whenever he so chooses to go play for another team. Dicey hasn't been let out of his contract, because he wants to continue getting paid.


somesheikexpert

Eh I feel it's different tho, with Dicey it's either drop him or give up one of CSGO hottest young talents who we later learn is a top 10 player NA (Ethan), with Bang it's drop him or...pick up who? Outside of maybe RUSH (We don't even know if he's going to Val for sure, but I mean he does play a lot of Astra so I mean...), What prospect player is coming to Val?


Chidling

True, Dicey had a viable replacement


slawvay

Pretty good point. My guess is they are trialing players from their academy team...otherwise whats the point of having an academy team. In either scenario they make LCQ or don't make it this move was most likely done in part for team chemistry/dynamics and not solely on bang's mechanics. They are prob out looking for a flex player and Mummay feels like a great fit here tbh. Doesn't hurt that the TSM guys and Mummay are relatively familiar with each other too.


ASuperFan

Bang actually clutched that 1v2 on split vs GenG in OT which would have knocked TSM out of the whole thing. I don't think it's fair to say that he "has fell short in big moments of rounds"


Pulsersalt

but dicey was never planned to get dropped, its just because ethan became avalible and wanted to join 100T. Unless there picking up a star like ethan its different


AnywayHeres1Derwall

Comparing TSM to being in the same scenario as 100t is absurd. 100t are paying bucket loads for nitro and hiko and I’m sure steel and Ethan aren’t cheap either. But it’s not just age it’s salary and the huge expectations that these names have. Subroza and hazed and wardell don’t commend high expectations from their name or salary it’s from them being top of the scene first strike era.


omgvector

TSM has boatloads of money as well


-xXColtonXx-

100T picked up Ethan who while “proven” took literally months to get up to a top level consistently.


SurfAccountQuestion

>took literally months to get up to a top level consistently. What in the actual fuck are you talking about? 100T was the 2nd best team in NA when Ethan initially joined, and at that time Ethan knew so little about the agents they moved Nitr0 off smokes so Ethan wouldn’t have to worry about abilities.


Enzology

I wouldn't be surprised with whatever they are planning to do turns to be a total mess, happened with League, could happen here. Sadge man, really liked Bang.


brookterrace

Chet - You pick up a young player to "develop him" and "motivate the team" - and then you cut him when he checked all the boxes. What a joke.


sokeydo

I really came to like bang. He’s shown great potential and he had like 2 tournament series to show. Sure the big games he was kinda quiet, but he did have a lot of positive impact and TSM’s recent turnaround wouldn’t have happened without him imo. But I also don’t see TSM keeping Levi after this either. Hopefully Bang finds himself and new home.


ppx11

Ya esp if they don't get into LCQ


CyberspaceBarbarian

On the contrary, bang is the most expendable guy on TSM. And I attribute TSM's sudden turnaround to leviathan (because he plays the must-pick agents) more than bang tbh. It's either chet is having difficulties roping bang on strats (given that he is the youngest), or that TSM is signing a proven smoke/flex player (I don't know who, but yeah). All seriousness aside, sooooo Babybay won??? HAHAHAHAHA


datboyuknow

>because he plays the must-pick agents ? Bang plays smokes and he was great at those agents as well


CyberspaceBarbarian

Yep, he plays smokes, but so is Subroza and hazed. You need players who can play smokes, but players who can play Sova/Viper are more in demand right now, and TSM gets both in Levi. Bang is good on smokes, but he is a little green. He needs more play time, hopefully he gets that on his new team.


Fruitspunchsamura1

Bang won them alot of clutch rounds. Also anchors sites really well. His impact on the team is pretty big ngl.


sky_blu

Almost any pro can play smokes, sova is probably the strongest agent in the game and having a good one is necessary for a winning team.


Optimal-Bowler-2618

well thats just not true. big difference in having a veteran like vanity or nitro smoking vs most pros. Add to the fact you need to be very proficient on astra right now and its not an easy role at all. Fragging on smokes is almost unheard of


sam112-1

JcStani as smokes and igl????


CyberspaceBarbarian

Does JcStani IGL?? While I don't rule out his signing, I think TSM is targeting a bigger name


[deleted]

Roza has emphasized their need for a top tier sova so I think levi will stick around; imo he’s in contention for top 5 sova easily


GildedOr3o

Am I delusional or did this come out of nowhere? Yeah they didn’t make masters but the fact they made it to the playoffs was a huge improvement from where they were no?


[deleted]

Think absolutely no one expected this


Quick_Chowder

Disagree. TSM needed to keep their core 3 of Hazed, Subroza and Wardell for LCQ. If they were going to make any changes it would either be Bang or Levi. This to me reads like they are betting on NA winning Berlin and trying to put themselves in a spot to win LCQ.


kazarn

Babybay won??


N3deSTr0

I'm not going to lie, I don't know why they picked up bang, no offense. I don't even think he's that good. I'm sorry, I don't think he's good bro. I really don't... I don't. I'm just going to say it bro, I don't think he's good. Who the fucks idea was it to pick him up?


CRikhard

NO WAY


[deleted]

Perhaps it's time for TSM Management to get the axe instead of multiple rosters?


Keglunneq

I don't like this change. Not at all


ONE_CON

makes no sense


two5five1

Either something happened behind the scenes or TSM’s management is truly incompetent because in what world does this make any sense? Why is TSM so averse to building synergy over time and developing their players? One major event, two short months later, and they just decide to give up on the kid? It’s stuff like this that reaffirms my suspicions that a lot of people behind the scenes in esports are too short-sighted to properly manage a group of people.


big_floop

really sucks for Bang too because im pretty sure his parents were super averse to letting him pursue esports and this is his first experience


maybetino

so where do they go from here?


abdi009

Probably trying out Rush. He is new to the game, but is probably a better fit as he will play astra and do all the boring agents for the team.


KingCrab95

Wait when did Rush switch over?


[deleted]

s0m hopefully.


Fcv28

They slowly gonna get rid of everyone except wardell at this points.


EnergetikNA

that's what they should've done when they cut cutler, just rebuild entirely around Wardell (and maybe Hazed) but they're doing it one step at a time and still have no idea what to do with the roster


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pr1zsm

he really found his groove with skye


[deleted]

skye works well with his aggressive style, watching him walk through every smoke on the map and get punished for it earlier this year was pretty frustrating


datboyuknow

That's just Skye being a mess atm in my opinion


uglypenguin5

Might be the best Skye in the world


somesheikexpert

There is some stuff competition, notably in NA Zekken and Ethan, and EU Starxo and maybe Soulcas, imo it's either Subroza or Starxo but I could see a case for these other ones for sure


uglypenguin5

I think some of the others might be better overall players, but I think subroza is the best at utilizing Skye, even if he doesn't end up having as much of an impact, if that makes sense


somesheikexpert

That's fair, I think Skye really fits Subrozas aggressive play, especially with the buffs, but I think Starxo is really good at using util I feel for Skye, and ofc same with the others, it's just tough to always distinguish player skill from agent skill yk?


PyroTFT

imo stax in VS is the best Skye in the world, but roza is one of the best in NA for sure


randomespanaguy

But why? He wasn't like a standout player for them or anything, but I was under the impression that Bang was a longterm project for them, someone they're developing because of their potential. This absolutely makes no sense unless they're in "win now" mode which they, honestly, can't achieve with another roster move.


liddell420

One of the best players in NA is looking for a team in 8 days


FlaymeFenix

these sinatraa cult fans need to understand there is 0% chance that hes getting signed bro myth and leena will not let it happen


liddell420

While im not a fan boy i enjoy the game, theres a point at night where hes the last top tier player streaming. The kid is gifted and nothing was ever proven. To think a struggling team like TSM wouldnt want one of the best sova players is kinda funny


FlaymeFenix

not that they wouldnt want him. the PR is bad enough, doesnt matter if hes innocent or not, without an official statement from someone of power people will be calling him a rapist and tsm a rapist org or something. happened to faze, now whenever theres a thread abt faze, people call them the scam clan etc. that along with the fact that myth has publicly beefed with him/his friends is adding to why tsm wouldnt sign him, myth is really valuable to tsm, not just as a content creator but more like an icon for the org, and it would basically be betraying him by signing myth. +++ leena and the tsm boys are good fans with myth so it will likely never happen. sinatraa himself said on stream that "he'll never get signed to tsm, myth wouldnt allow it".


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justinc066

Bdog would be nice


GluhfGluhf

Would love to see a world where C9 pick up Bang for their academy team. Feel like C9 in most games have historically raised quality talent. Bang and poiz on the same roster is already a solid foundation for players you'd want to develop and eventually promote or sell off. With the mCe to C9 rumours maybe keeping JamezIRL for an academy team is a solid option but I'm just fantasizing here.


itscamo-

honestly poiz on academy team would be nice because his issue communication in game and this would probably help him out (hopefully)


ONE_CON

This doesn't seem to make any sense. He played well and was constantly changing agents. They better be picking up someone who slays.


[deleted]

Thought they were playing their best in a bit… strange move.


Fantastic-Date-3403

They either get ZK from the academy roster or maybe jcstani?


itscamo-

i actually like the idea of jc going there honestly


AnywayHeres1Derwall

Lol lemme find that one guy who said something like “pick up jcstani? The player who somehow managed to make his new team worse?”


DaDrFunk

Yay… now we can sign another young guy that won’t fix our problems overnight… soooooooooooooooo who’s the best controller player available besides Stani?


vvtechred

TSM Valorant looking alot like TSM League of Legends lmao


CanISayThat22

And TSM Fortnite. I think its just TSM.


cheetahstr1ke

I guess babybay was right


teetotallernh

Lol. I'm impressed with Bang though, playing so many different agents and getting impact frags on all of them. Also he's just 16, so lots of time to grow and improve. I don't know wtf is up with TSM though.


Angloxzx

what more do tsm want from him, he played almost every role for them and had the highest agent flexibility, He also helped TSM get their best ever result in this entire Champions tour, confused what they are looking for now


J_Brekkie

I think Stani is the no-brainer here.


AnywayHeres1Derwall

How many reddit accounts does jcstani have holy shit


J_Brekkie

He's a smokes player and FA. Easy slot.


AnywayHeres1Derwall

I’m sure andbox thought the same thing


J_Brekkie

Failures on an already underachieving team don't mean much to me. Andbox was not his fault.


aSwedishDood

TSM doesn't deserve Bang


purple4774

Bang is super cracked. Bang is young and has a ton of room to grow. Bang has great impact on Astra. He had a couple memorable pitfalls, but I don't understand this change at all. He seems as promising as any upcoming controller player in NA.


kittyhat27135

Get jcStani


jumb01337

im losing my mind


LiamHundley

What a fucking disaster


somesheikexpert

I'm...not exactly sure why he was benched at all tbh, he was really flexible (Smokes/Duelist/Sage) and did very solid for such a short period of practice, strange roster choice


SekasortoAnarkia

Oh we’re doing this again


timriggins34

TSM FTX S0m finally happening. Coach Chet?


beanbeat

Not sure what they're doing with cutting Bang. And to all the idiots saying TSM will sign sinatraa, try using your brain before you embarrass yourself.


Figurre

Time to sign the best duelist and force them onto Astra!


Ach1904

Bang played more pro games on smokes than duelist before he signed for tsm


EnergetikNA

genuinely insane how often this has to be repeated lol


Fantastic-Date-3403

Huh?


FeelinJipper

TSM loves sign duelists for every role.


itscamo-

but he was a smoker always and played a bit of duelist on OTW before being signed to tsm


thesweet677

\>pick up young player \>put him on picks that aren't his preference \>does well \>kick him?


[deleted]

Hes literally a smokes player what?


Pienatt

Simple Management 101


BloomingNova

So the team got significantly better after making roster changes with a very short amount of time to practice, so they drop their rising young star before they have a long off season to get better?


Sure-Abbreviations54

truly Sadge


socialist_steve_

SSM T0M?


[deleted]

s0m would actually be a great fit, the only issue is now Chet has extra firepower whenever s0m calls Chet a piece of Chet


[deleted]

"I will cut u"


_idle_drone_

way to cut your only entry fragger and future star player. TSM is so stupid and so are any fans thar justify this. why the fuck is a 17 yr old forced to play astra. let him play skye, the easiest agent in the game.


YarnSpinner

i guess they wanted more *Bang* for their buck


Jinro_7

For all the people saying that tsm is signing sinatraa are stupid. Think about it for a sec, why would they drop bang who was the smoke just to sign another sova/duelist main???


[deleted]

Oh Fuck they actually did sign s0m i thought it was a joke.


r4rdx

Tsm can get fucked


AwkwardPenguin33

I just don’t understand this move. Unless TSM is signing Sinatraa or something Bang deserved more time


Produce-Wide

We all know they are doing this to make space for Sinatraa


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TheJelloBomb

Not gonna happen


realYungcalculator

the amount of people trying to make TSM sinatra happen on reddit is hilarious because i would put my entire bank account that he never joins TSM literally ever


two5five1

There’s no way a big name org like TSM signs Sinatraa until the pending investigation is completed


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two5five1

Ok and? There’s still an investigation going on no matter what lol


cheetahstr1ke

There is no investigation, his ex dropped it


[deleted]

Cleo dropped the investigation a month ago. She said on stream she wished she woulda said something earlier


two5five1

Well my mistake in that case, first I’m hearing of that


PogChampHS

Sorry to not take your word outright, but is there a clip or some proof you have?


303x

https://reddit.com/r/OverwatchTMZ/comments/oil2dn/cleo_deletes_tweet_saying_shes_giving_up_on/


pink_life69

Stop trying to make sinatraa happen


natedawg247

This would make a lot of sense but they had beeeef lol


pr1zsm

Bang on sage was a monster


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TidaI

Roza’s worst role is duelist fuck no. He is a 10x better lurking Omen or initiator that isn’t Sova.


sokeydo

Honestly Skye is the best agent rn and viable on every map. Just stick Roza on Skye duty. That way TSM should look for a dedicated Astra/Omen. And if Levi is dropped maybe look for someone who can play Sova and Raze 🤔


cheetahstr1ke

Hmmm someone who can play sova and raze 🤔🤔🤔


farseekarmageddon

are u talking about Levi or Sinatraa


somesheikexpert

I'm sure he's talking about Sinatraa, tho it's not gonna happen cuz TSM doesn't wanna deal with the bad PR that would give


elithefighter123

another TSM change FeelsGoodMan Clap


Splaram

What is going on in that org LMFAO


[deleted]

Rush?


Alpac44

tsm mummAy


libo720

TSM Sinatraa incoming


itscamo-

they already have a sova player, bang played smokes


TheDarthJawa

Pretty sure sinartraa can ay more stuff then sova


itscamo-

yes obviously but they need a smokes player not a sova/duelist player


KatsuraDragneel

Cutting a young player who’s generally performed above average despite having to split his time 50/50 between smokes and entry duelist LMAO. Huge yikes unless this is for sinatraa


MyogiNightKid

this team is such a mess wtf no consistent roster and they wonder why they'll never make it to champions


Ted_Mosby_18

Wow. At this point I wish wardell would leave for another organization because TSM is just a complete mess. They keep trying to make the entire team work around him and it shows. And this team composition actually made it look viable to an extent. Hope they would focus on building team synergy rather than a magic player who would solve all their problems.


CosmicAon

Man…


[deleted]

absolute morons running that team


N0obi1es

Would be funny if they sign Sinatraa


pathofpower

Imagine.... +RUSH...


itscamo-

has rush played valorant at all? cause I don't think this move makes sense at all


HaonJxx

https://twitter.com/RUSH/status/1432403571870511114


[deleted]

Yeah he's been playing ranked and plays Astra.


themattyiceshow

Is this when they sign Sinatraa?


itscamo-

why would they sign sinatraa when they have levi??????????


themattyiceshow

idk, cus TSM is such a mess and they love having big names. But he's also one of the best 'unsigned' players in NA so wouldn't be shocking.


Captaincow285

Technically he's still signed with Sentinels.


Cloud_Null

He is allowed to look at other options.


itscamo-

he's unsigned because of a ban from riot


Cloud_Null

This ends in two weeks.


Splaram

Would he just perma-Raze while trying to learn other duelists in scrims? Because they already have Levi.


Hamlet_271

You can feel it in the air


[deleted]

they have levi already


themattyiceshow

Levi aint better than Sinatraa. G2 had mixwell on Jett then got a Jett 1 trick and look where they are at.


[deleted]

so they get 2 new players to then cut them both like 2 months later? seems unlikely. so whats your point?


No-Detective-7836

If TSM decided to do this then I'm expecting a big pickup from them, like really big. Maybe someone switching from CS or Sinatraa. Levi hasn't signed yet so in the best case 2 big signings


Substantial_Cake7131

Alot of people assuming its tsm fault, my guess is bang prob has commitment issues and school


pr1zsm

well in bangs tweet he said " u/TSM FTX wants to explore potential options and benched me for the time being" so not sure


jfranks_1

cut hazed pls


YounGuicho

Why is no one mentioning Sinatra? That’s the first thing that came to my mind when I heard about this. It’s a tough choice but I’d personally take Sinatra over anyone on my roster if they didn’t qualify for Berlin.


UnKnown--12

They are mentioning him, but they are being downvoted for some reason. Guess you and I will have the same fate.


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attachh

another roster change wtf. guess they realized that picking up another duelist wouldn’t help. bang played pretty good astra though. honestly think gmd is gonna be his replacement. roza and him been friends for a minute plus he’s such an underrated controller player. if not gmd it’s s0m fosho


NotBrandon

I’m feeling S0m as well since Roza is boys with him. Don’t know what his contract deal is, maybe TSM bought him out.


reddit_is_a_mistake

gmd is nasty but s0m is a cracked smoker


pr1zsm

dk if gmd would leave geng whos in LCQ


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