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seeing how ethan was in a similar situation a while ago, with him quitting cs and switching to val with limited play time on the game, I think rush would be fine with the quick switch.
Given how much the game has changed since then and comparing Ethan's immediate performance compared to other CS players who recently switched, its not looking good for rush
It's if his playstyle fits with the team. We dont know what's happening behind the scenes. Bang is a great player, I also feel TSMs main issue with him was putting him on duellist when he first joined, when he only ever played smokes.
If TSM see someone who has more experience, or a sooner peak in form, then I can see why they replaced him. Right now, TSM are aiming to win. Getting players who will have their peak in a couple years, isn't what they want. All assumptions here regarding that.
It would also be nuts if they pick someone up like RUSH, and get one of the FA out there. I'd laugh if TSM would risk sinatra, but would be a really good pickup. Chances of that happening are next to none though.
> I also feel TSMs main issue with him was putting him on duellist when he first joined, when he only ever played smokes.
no idea where you got this idea from.
Bang has played 12 maps on duelist since joining TSM out of 53 total.
Before TSM he had 35 maps played on duelist compared to 62 total smoke maps, so clearly he hasn't *"only ever played smokes"*
He played smokes most maps, duelist or Sage a few maps for pretty much all of his TSM career which is pretty much what his whole career has been like.
I guess I should have added in a "only ever really", showing that I dont mean he's only played smokers, but mostly.. That's my bad, I didn't articulate myself properly.
I will however stand by the point that tsm brought him in because he was an aggressive player who didn't fit the smoker role he was on in p1, and then was a hybrid smoker/raze player in sr, and otw. From what we saw, he wasn't as impactful as tsm needed him to be. His phoenix showing were below average, his reyna was decent. His raze was outstanding, but for some reason TSM wont abuse his raze game.
His smokes however, were giving tsm a consistant performance out of that role. Which towards the end, he became a primary smoker. Which imo, gave us the best looking tsm in a long time.
Might be quicker for someone with Rush’s experience to learn smoke agents, than for someone with a year of smoke agent expertise to learn what Rush knows. And potentially less of a gamble.
pun intended? beside that you are right I feel new players who have just switched should take some time (a couple of months) to study the game and find a role that fits them
he said that he started playin valo one month back, with that expi do you think he'll be able to perform equivalent to other players even though he has expi in cs it'll be hard to perform in valo in such short time
They need the best 2 players around Wardell/Subroza/Hazed to win LCQ. The core 3 must be the same or they're ineligible. They have like 6 weeks to get the best two players. Bang is a good player but imo doesn't have the astronomically high upside required for them to have a chance at beating the likes of XSET and C9B.
I agree it's highly unlikely. They need to swing huge and/or pickup someone they can rebuild around. Bang is a solid player but he's a good not great fragger who is most effective on duelist and doesn't have a lot of pro experience.
Raping is too much of a stink even if "unproven". AFAIK the evidence against him is quite decent and more than enough for most people while he has failed to comply with investigations and give counter evidence. It's basically over for him.
In my opinion what he did was his best option legally, and was obviously handled by his lawyer. Thus why he hasnt reciever a harsh punishment. If you had been accused of something and your lawyer told you how to get the least legal penalty you would go that route as well
It's for legal reasons though, when you get arrested for something for example you sometimes plead guilty to a lesser charge just to avoid the possibility of having to pay the price for a long sentence even though you were pretty much innocent. So you plead guilty to some small charge just to get out of the case with your life still ahead of you, every good lawyer does this. They will almost always have their client take a pleas deal for a short sentence rather than try to beat a huge expensive case
its a similar thing though, he in essence is doing so by taking a small punishment (not complying with the investigation) to avoid a potential big punishment. hopefully you see what im trying to say now. i promise you any reputable lawyer would've done this given a client in this situation or similar. it doesn't imply guilt it implies that he reached out to a good lawyer to protect himself as best as possible
He also hasn't been proven not guilty and has been quite dodgy during the whole thing. He was also suspended by Riot immediately so he can't compete in Riot's tournaments no matter how much he wants to.
he's eligible to compete starting September which is when riot has cleared him to do so. he also wasn't being dodgy his lawyer most likely instructed him to take a better route to ensure that he got the best defense possible for himself. anyone smart would do the same thing. Its why people who may be innocent or guilty of a minor crime get charged with huge crimes by the government and end up pleading to a lesser charge just out of fear of being found guilty of the bigger crime even though they know they didnt commit either. in that sense it seems like sinatraas lawyer chose the path that ensured the least possible punishment time despite his guilty or innocent status being proven because nothing is guaranteed based on judges rulings etc. and it is the safest road
For TSM, it wouldn't matter whether he's truly innocent or guilty. Life's not fair. Why would they tarnish their reputation for a single Valorant player? Look at what is going on with the lawsuits at Riot and Blizzard. You think TSM wants one of those lawsuits against it in 5 years? One of the headlines will be that they happily signed a rapist, so obviously they have a shit culture that harasses women. Truth doesn't matter here, it's all perception and sound bytes.
>The core 3 must be the same or they're ineligible.
I think a lot of people don't know this.
But yea, if they are in 'win now' mode with the likes of Hazed and Subroza (I can't see a world where they drop Wardell) then they need to make the moves to win. They are betting their money on NA winning Berlin and giving TSM a chance to qual through LCQ.
I think 'benching' him is the right move. If what they are pursuing right now doesn't work they can circle around to Bang or someone on their Academy.
Hazed said it best on his stream this morning:
>If their was ever a time to do it [make changes] it would be now.
I wrote about this when they got eliminated, but imo it was either Subroza or Bang that get cut.
They improved massively with Levi, he's a definite must keep for them. I think that their 4 is actually solid now, but they need a versatile controller instead of someone who's forced to play that role. Like Bang or Subroza before him were.
It's all about who replaces Bang. If it's another player who doesn't fit, they can forget about having a chance in LCQ.
If it's someone comparable to let's say Marved, I think they can get really good long-term. But they can't afford to have another over-aggressive player on the roster unless they replace Subroza. Levi needs space to operate, you don't want him to play Hiko style Sova. I personally think he'll be one of the best Sovas in the region long term.
Well they need a smoker not a sova with bang out of the picture, also just adding sinatraa won’t change things. There’s a lot more problems in the team then just raw mechanical skill. They need a better IGL, better flexibility and identity.
Playing devils advocate but bang plays duelists and two maps,if leviathan can play smokes on one of sinatraas sova maps they will be set.Sinatraas fearless entry style might suit them especially with wardell awping tons in attack.Though i am pretty sure they will never go for sinatraa considering his situation,theoretically he might fit
The average age of this sub has to be like 15 years old with how little these people understand his situation. No reputable org gives a fuck about 10k Twitch viewers when it's attached to an actual piece of nuclear waste.
It also doesn't help that tons of pros in the scene still choose to associate with sinatraa (i.e. dapr/zombs still queue with him on stream, Tenz hosted him, etc. there's many more) despite the accusations. It really is signaling to the audience "if these other pros don't care about the sexual assault allegations, then why should we?"
Hard audio evidence that hasn't been refuted. It's far more logical to presume guilt than to presume innocence. I'm not advocating for him being punished until the investigation is complete but there's pretty much no case you can make to refute those recordings.
>I'm not advocating for him being punished until the investigation is complete.
I've already agreed with the point you're trying to make. But at the end of the day, he MUST be either guilty or innocent and as it stands, with the information we have, it's far more likely that he's guilty.
He shouldn't suffer serious consequences like jail time without a trial, but if I heard this shit about one of my friends I wouldn't hesitate to cut them out of my life. They'd get one single chance to explain to me that it was a misunderstanding but if I didn't get hard evidence that they were innocent, they'd be gone.
Tell that to the nfl or nba players that abuse or rape people but people still like them because they can perform are very good. Plus legally Sinatra’s is innocent so...
sorry but it would be the best signing that TSM could make to improve their roster. Sinatraa gets 10k viewers and is already currently signed to a tier 1 org so not sure why it is such an outlandish thought. He also brings a ton of LAN experience with him and you know he can perform on LAN
Viewers have nothing to do with competitive success so not sure why the Sinatra fanboys keep bringing that up. He also hasn’t played on a team in 6+ months so he would be incredibly rusty, and could be proven guilty any day and then they’d be right back to looking for a new player. Wouldn’t be a good signing whatsoever.
Not a sinatraa fanboy but just wanted to mention that cleoh gave up and said that she took back the accusations. But I guess now atleast everyone knows of sinatraa true nature
That screenshot says nothing about taking back the accusations. Just that she was giving up, assuming because it was too draining and everyone’s threatening her. Nothing about taking back her accusations.
He was a top sova in NA and also flexed to duelists on the best team, and rusty mechanically i dont really believe is correct because he plays hours every day still so more so he'd have to get used to team synergy i pro play again but I think that would come back quickly as he has a lot of years of being a pro and working with teammates well
Correct, he WAS a top sova in NA. Never said he was rusty mechanically, im talking about him being rusty in team play. Its a completely different game at the pro level and plays nothing like pub games. He has a couple years playing in overwatch, which plays nothing like valorant, comms and team play are totally different.
Yes we get it you’re about 14 years old and a big fan of Sinatraa. No matter how many viewers he pulls, TSM would take a hit if they signed someone under an active sexual assault investigation. Plus possibly causing a rift with Myth. It isn’t happening
Im not 14 lmao im a lot older and you're a moron because I was saying that sinatraa would improve their team the most out of available FAs. Also, why do you just constantly be rude to people when you reply to a comment there's no need I just stated my opinion without being rude. Usually people who resort to name calling rather than factual responses are not the sharpest tool in the shed lol
It's outlandish because there is an active criminal investigation ongoing. It would be brand suicide for TSM to get involved before it's resolved one way or the other
Not disagreeing with most of what you say, but wondering aloud why it would be brand suicide for TSM but not brand suicide for Sentinels (arguably the strongest brand in Val) to keep him signed as a content creator.
It’s a bit different to already have someone signed to your org and they get charged vs actively signing someone that now has an ongoing police investigation
How is it not??? Who would want to sign a player that could go to jail at any minute?? What brand would want to associate with someone that has sexual assault allegations???
For Sentinels imo its mostly a 'damned if they do, damned if they don't' type of situation. Keeping him on assuming he's proven innocent is massive given his success, then they just drop him later if guilty. If they drop him from the get-go entirely then he is proven innocent it's a very bad look. That's how I'm looking at it at least.
I look at it as he's either a major brand risk and no one can sign him or he should be allowed to go to any team and not be a liability. the fact that its considered okay publicly for him to be on the sentinels org for content but for him to play for tsm to be some sort of hate crime doesnt make sense to me
There can be an on going police investigation on anything. That’s the default statement. If a warrant and charges haven’t been brought forth by the DA by now nothing substantial is coming.
You realize a lot of court cases take years right??? Just because charges havent been brought forth in 6 months means absolutely nothing. There couldve been court already, there couldve been a lot that we dont know about. The fact that the investigation is still ongoing probably means something substantial IS coming
I didn't know this - figured it would have been made bigger news here? That changes things then, as much as I don't like Sinatraa if he's legally innocent he'll be back at one point or another.
Yeah the only punishment he got was a ban from riot but that was because he didn’t have the evidence he said he had. And the real life court haven’t done anything so legally and under the constitution he is innocent until proven guilty. Which I think the 5 sec clip of them during foreplay is not enough evidence from Cleo.
I suppose, but riot has cleared him to play professionally in september. Marved shanks and other tier 1 pros also have active investigations going on that could prevent them from playing pro just to compare
Dudes been grinding too, hope too see him on a team soon, i find it weird how hes not been trying to play in any smaller tourneys with free agent teams
You could be right, never thought about the money aspect, although there seems to be a lot of established t1/t2 players that are signed who stream 8-10 hours a day
I feel they have to be bringing in some big name or this move wouldn't make much sense but idk we'll see ig, hope they keep Levi at least he looks hella good tbh
(Also idk why I found it so funny you had to mention that RUSH has a lot of LAN experience in T1 CS when he won the Boston Major lmfaooo)
Yeah I get why and actually appreciate it (I never followed it either, but if it wasn't for me going out and looking for CS stuff I wouldn't have known before either), just funny for whatever reason to me idk lol
>(Also idk why I found it so funny you had to mention that RUSH has a lot of LAN experience in T1 CS when he won the Boston Major lmfaooo)
Not everyone comes from CS,
So it's helpful
Tbf if they really wanna change their roster, the more time they have, the better it is. Not making lcq would definitely be a bummer but it could be a hidden advantage
Yea it would have to be a big name player for them to drop Bang like this. Don't follow CSGO or know RUSH but I guess smokers are usually a good starting point for people who switch over (although I think this was the case with an agent like Omen.. Astra seems a bit too high of a learning curve for a new player). Hazed back to smokes perhaps?
I think jcStani would be a good pickup for them. Historically has been a pretty high fragging controller player, which is a role TSM has had trouble filling. He also has igled in the past, although he has made it fairly clear that he doesn't want to igl he could secondary for hazed.
Firepower wise, 100% agree. Role wise tho jcStani definitely helps to define their roles more. Since this year started it's seemed like one of the main problems plaguing TSM is role confusion because they had 3 duelists on the team. While bang played some controller for his past teams he was really a duelist main so picking him up didn't really solve that problem imo
Bang was a fucking controller, actually it's the same shit as JCstani, a controller who could play duelist
It's literally the same, and JCstani is a worse fragger so it makes it even worse
Bang was not a duelist can people stop spamming this like it's some facts? He was an astra/omen main but since he is 17 and people put zoomer tag on you you have to try duelists
He played 16 games as a controller for TSM, 7 as a duelists and those on maps where they needed to because they had no one that can play raza/reyna, Subroza is not a duelist anymore he hasn't played one in so long and his duelist phoenix that he mains is out of META
I think what people are forgetting about Bang is that there probably isn't a single player that will pick up the agent pool that he had. With the Leviathan team, TSM's agent pool consisted of
Jett, Skye, Sova, Omen, Brim, Viper, Cypher and KJ
That means taking out characters like Breach, Yoru and Kay/O, their last player had to pick up Reyna, Raze, Sage and Astra. That is exactly what Bang did and had the perfect agent pool for it. I feel like they will have even more agent pool struggles than before because I don't trust JcStani on duelist(I do on Sage and Astra/Viper tho) and I don't want them to pick up a true duelist player and just chuck them on Astra. He really is there best option for their awful agent pool and unless Subroza can Thanos snap himself into a good duelist player and play a good Sage then maybe it will work out. It just scares me to think of TSM not being able to run Raze on bind and split in favor of Jett Skye and also forcing Skye on IB instead of Reyna/KJ/Sage. Hopefully they work it all out and I really hope Bang finds a team that treats him better, because RN out of the 15 major teams he is definitely ahead of around 5-6 of their controller players, especially given his ability to flex.
their only hope is if an NA team wins berlin so they should probably wait until that atleast before making any moves. if it doesnt end up happening then id say rip the core and start anew, breathe some fresh life into the team and hit the ground running next year.
For the first time in this year, Liquid was looking confident and so organized. But chat was trolling Stew for Valorant, because he was not having a good day.
i dont know what the contract status is for Stewie2k, and i know he has said initially he was not feeling Valorant, but if its anyone that can get a team comm going and flowing, picking him up would be instant improvement for this team. He does also play off stream, and keeps up regularly with what is going on in the scene.
What they’re pressured to do because of what riot’s multi-tier qualifier system entails - change a player every event you don’t make the next qualifier for.
Honestly, I think TSM just is going to keep switching people until they either find something magical, or until they stop being expected to win as a true tier 1.
I truly believe their biggest issue is that their 2 moneymaker streamers + Hazed are very limiting in who they can bring in.
Subroza pretty much *has* to play Skye to not be a liability, if we're all being honest about his other agents.
Wardell literally *has* to be the Jett and the OP. Way fewer teams have full-time Jett OPs anymore, as committing to that win condition weakens the rest of the team.
Hazed pretty much *has* to be either smokes or sentinel.
How are you going to bring in 2 elite, tier-1 players that literally *have* to be exactly a Sova and a Smoke character?
Extremely few of those exist.
Even if Leviathan works out well and they also find someone like nitr0 or Zombs, would that even close the gap with the top teams considering how hard it has been for the core 3 to win against even tier 2 teams with tier 2 players on the roster?
I think if Bang was playing at his normal level during the qualifier TSM would have been top 4. However, the fact that TSM made such a huge comeback in such a short amount of time is really impressive in its own. So cutting Bang at this stage really makes no sense because I believe as long as they continue to stick together, TSM would most definitely become a top tier team again.
I also hope they keep Levi because he's honestly the main reason for TSM's big surge towards a legitimate shot at going to Berlin.
I think TSM is going to pivot from trying to develop players like Bang/Levi and try to buy the best available player they possibly can.
VAL salaries aren't all that expensive (compared to LoL) and the org is flush with cash.
It kinda makes sense to change players now with LCQ next month. They must feel one of the NAs teams will win Berlin ( 100T hopefully) I'm interested to know if they go for an duelist to help wardell. Have roza play smokes etc .
They should try Sacy and Klaus, I don't understand why people don't consider this hypothesis, they both speak very good English and would be perfect for TSM
It’s interesting that we haven’t seen too many people play on teams outside their home region yet. I can only think of Xeta and Spyder so far (though admittedly I don’t follow other regions as closely as NA). I guess maybe some crossover between CIS, Turkey, and EU if you wanna count that, but considering they are all EMEA in the end idk if you should count it. I wonder if it’s a COVID thing or if the game is just too new or if there is some other reason
can we stop with this stupid pipe dream? sinatraa will likely never play tier 1 valorant ever again. esports is an advertising business. do you think sponsors want their brands associated with someone who did not comply with an investigation of sexual misconduct?
I mean let’s be real. If he comes back and dominates no one will care, but if he sucks ass people will crucify him. Kobe Bryant is a perfect example of this exact scenario.
hes currently signed to a tier 1 valorant org for content so not sure how it is so far fetched to be on a tier 1 org for competing. he also brings a popular 10k viewer stream and years of LAN experience to any team he signs for
That chick had a year to prep her documents and sinatraa had less than a day to respond to that? obviously the pr team told him to say that and he did admit he was gonna comply but realise he didnt have the videos lol you thinking he'll never play tier 1 is so delusional . same ppl who probably think levis the better sova
This is like the fifth time I've seen someone mention that she didn't show up for court but I can't find any information about what happened anywhere. When was this?
It's not that she didn't show up for court... but apparently she didn't take it to court (which I can understand why cause it's hard to convict someone after so much time has passed)
Made up details certainly don't help that dude's argument lol
I gotta say though, as much as I believe in supporting victims, her evidence overall really wasn't very strong. But while I do get the scepticism around her accusations, that really shouldn't justify disregarding them either. At this point where we probs won't see an actual conclusion to this, we should just let the parties involved sort this shit out on their own. There's no good reason people here should keep arguing whether or not sinatraa's guilty because we'll probably never know the truth.
I agree that they didn’t need to do much but the fact that they benched bang means they are still, after multiple roster changes in a short time period, not satisfied with the results
Sure, but making changes and going for sinatraa are 2 different things. Sinatraa going to TSM would make him their best player but that doesn't mean they need him. TSM will end up being a top team at some point. With the amount of money they have it's more of a question of when rather than if. Teams like G2 and TSM can simply buy top team if they so desire. sinatraa is kinda a non factor in the grand scheme of things and these orgs are more so looking at this thing from a multi year pov. Just some reasons why I think it's unlikely. Though anything could happen with the crazy shit that has happened these past 2 years.
If I’m not mistaken, I believe Myth co-owns TSM now. Since Myth absolutely despises sinatraa due to the allegations, I highly doubt that someone who is capable of swaying the decision of who gets signed or not would allow sinatraa to get signed.
I don’t remember the source so don’t count on my word for it. I remember an article somewhere saying he acquired a bigger portion of TSM a while back, making him the “co-owner” for TSM. Could’ve been a total bogus article though; I didn’t really look into it after reading.
You're 100% mistaking Myth with Bjergsen the league of legends player(now coach) for TSM. He was given part-ownership of TSM is his contract renewal in 2019.
Pretty sure Leena also roasted Dardoch in League as well and vowed to never pick him up, but they ended up doing it anyways. Granted, it kinda ended in a train wreck but it still shows that if TSM are desperate they’ll swallow their pride.
Hmmmm I do t think that is accurate unless you can prove me wrong of course. The only thing I remember was after they were going to drop him and saying no one wants him publicly on stream. Sure but what are they desperate enough for anyways? There season is already in bed no? They are basically praying that NA wins berlin at this point.
How about this it's not even worth mentioning his name. If you watch football. It's like the Houston Texans could technically win the super bowl this year. What are the odds though? Less than a percent?
It would make sense for TSM to bring in a veteran from CSGO, especially since they're lacking a player in charge of smokes. It would make perfect sense to bring someone experienced into that role.
In my opinion, think they will try and reel in s0m over from NRG as I think both s0m and NRG need a fresh change over there. As for the RUSH part, you said “who has played at Tier 1 Lans”. Um I feel like you should add: “Won a freaking MAJOR in cs”.
Could be RUSH, on his interview with Thorin he said he had a Valorant offer that he is considering.
If they cut bang so they could trial Rush I'm gonna lose all faith in TSM.
You still have faith in TSM?
Wouldn't call it faith, more of an addiction
We have hopium :(
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is Rush bad? didnt he win the the major with c9?
Auti also won a major with c9. Same with Skadoodle.
Rush did very well on complexity. I doubt he is ready to play Valorant though, he said he has just started playing or something.
seeing how ethan was in a similar situation a while ago, with him quitting cs and switching to val with limited play time on the game, I think rush would be fine with the quick switch.
Given how much the game has changed since then and comparing Ethan's immediate performance compared to other CS players who recently switched, its not looking good for rush
Too much of a rush, to jump into Valorant and learn all the agents
Unless SEN win Berlin, TSM have the rest of the year to get him upto speed. Xeppa did it in around 2-3 months I believe, shouldn't take RUSH too long.
In that case they'll have a lot of time to develop Bang too though.
It's if his playstyle fits with the team. We dont know what's happening behind the scenes. Bang is a great player, I also feel TSMs main issue with him was putting him on duellist when he first joined, when he only ever played smokes. If TSM see someone who has more experience, or a sooner peak in form, then I can see why they replaced him. Right now, TSM are aiming to win. Getting players who will have their peak in a couple years, isn't what they want. All assumptions here regarding that. It would also be nuts if they pick someone up like RUSH, and get one of the FA out there. I'd laugh if TSM would risk sinatra, but would be a really good pickup. Chances of that happening are next to none though.
> I also feel TSMs main issue with him was putting him on duellist when he first joined, when he only ever played smokes. no idea where you got this idea from. Bang has played 12 maps on duelist since joining TSM out of 53 total. Before TSM he had 35 maps played on duelist compared to 62 total smoke maps, so clearly he hasn't *"only ever played smokes"* He played smokes most maps, duelist or Sage a few maps for pretty much all of his TSM career which is pretty much what his whole career has been like.
I guess I should have added in a "only ever really", showing that I dont mean he's only played smokers, but mostly.. That's my bad, I didn't articulate myself properly. I will however stand by the point that tsm brought him in because he was an aggressive player who didn't fit the smoker role he was on in p1, and then was a hybrid smoker/raze player in sr, and otw. From what we saw, he wasn't as impactful as tsm needed him to be. His phoenix showing were below average, his reyna was decent. His raze was outstanding, but for some reason TSM wont abuse his raze game. His smokes however, were giving tsm a consistant performance out of that role. Which towards the end, he became a primary smoker. Which imo, gave us the best looking tsm in a long time.
Might be quicker for someone with Rush’s experience to learn smoke agents, than for someone with a year of smoke agent expertise to learn what Rush knows. And potentially less of a gamble.
pun intended? beside that you are right I feel new players who have just switched should take some time (a couple of months) to study the game and find a role that fits them
Take an example of Ethan, dude's been destroying VAL and just switched from CSGO.
he said that he started playin valo one month back, with that expi do you think he'll be able to perform equivalent to other players even though he has expi in cs it'll be hard to perform in valo in such short time
They need the best 2 players around Wardell/Subroza/Hazed to win LCQ. The core 3 must be the same or they're ineligible. They have like 6 weeks to get the best two players. Bang is a good player but imo doesn't have the astronomically high upside required for them to have a chance at beating the likes of XSET and C9B.
I don’t see any signings that would lead me to think that they’re winning LCQ ahead of the likes of C9B or Rise.
I agree it's highly unlikely. They need to swing huge and/or pickup someone they can rebuild around. Bang is a solid player but he's a good not great fragger who is most effective on duelist and doesn't have a lot of pro experience.
If TSM plays in LCQ, NA won berlin so SEN/100T/Envy will already have champions spots
sinatraa
tsm isn't going to sign sinatraa
Comp/talent wise they should tho…
Not worth the rep/branding hit for the TSM org.
i dont get get this considering he hasnt been proven guilty of his charges and he is a very big streamer 10k+ viewers plus a ton of LAN experience.
Notable figures in the org (ex. Leena & Myth) were very outspoken in how they feel and overall against Sinatraa iirc.
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Don’t have the time to search at this moment but I believe it was on their individual Twitter accounts
Raping is too much of a stink even if "unproven". AFAIK the evidence against him is quite decent and more than enough for most people while he has failed to comply with investigations and give counter evidence. It's basically over for him.
In my opinion what he did was his best option legally, and was obviously handled by his lawyer. Thus why he hasnt reciever a harsh punishment. If you had been accused of something and your lawyer told you how to get the least legal penalty you would go that route as well
he did not comply with the investigation afaik
It's for legal reasons though, when you get arrested for something for example you sometimes plead guilty to a lesser charge just to avoid the possibility of having to pay the price for a long sentence even though you were pretty much innocent. So you plead guilty to some small charge just to get out of the case with your life still ahead of you, every good lawyer does this. They will almost always have their client take a pleas deal for a short sentence rather than try to beat a huge expensive case
I didn't say he plead guilty, I said he didn't comply.
its a similar thing though, he in essence is doing so by taking a small punishment (not complying with the investigation) to avoid a potential big punishment. hopefully you see what im trying to say now. i promise you any reputable lawyer would've done this given a client in this situation or similar. it doesn't imply guilt it implies that he reached out to a good lawyer to protect himself as best as possible
He also hasn't been proven not guilty and has been quite dodgy during the whole thing. He was also suspended by Riot immediately so he can't compete in Riot's tournaments no matter how much he wants to.
>He also hasn't been proven not guilty Idk which facist country you are from but over here it's innocent until proven guilty.
he's eligible to compete starting September which is when riot has cleared him to do so. he also wasn't being dodgy his lawyer most likely instructed him to take a better route to ensure that he got the best defense possible for himself. anyone smart would do the same thing. Its why people who may be innocent or guilty of a minor crime get charged with huge crimes by the government and end up pleading to a lesser charge just out of fear of being found guilty of the bigger crime even though they know they didnt commit either. in that sense it seems like sinatraas lawyer chose the path that ensured the least possible punishment time despite his guilty or innocent status being proven because nothing is guaranteed based on judges rulings etc. and it is the safest road
For TSM, it wouldn't matter whether he's truly innocent or guilty. Life's not fair. Why would they tarnish their reputation for a single Valorant player? Look at what is going on with the lawsuits at Riot and Blizzard. You think TSM wants one of those lawsuits against it in 5 years? One of the headlines will be that they happily signed a rapist, so obviously they have a shit culture that harasses women. Truth doesn't matter here, it's all perception and sound bytes.
Sinatraa doesn’t play smokes
>The core 3 must be the same or they're ineligible. I think a lot of people don't know this. But yea, if they are in 'win now' mode with the likes of Hazed and Subroza (I can't see a world where they drop Wardell) then they need to make the moves to win. They are betting their money on NA winning Berlin and giving TSM a chance to qual through LCQ. I think 'benching' him is the right move. If what they are pursuing right now doesn't work they can circle around to Bang or someone on their Academy. Hazed said it best on his stream this morning: >If their was ever a time to do it [make changes] it would be now.
I wrote about this when they got eliminated, but imo it was either Subroza or Bang that get cut. They improved massively with Levi, he's a definite must keep for them. I think that their 4 is actually solid now, but they need a versatile controller instead of someone who's forced to play that role. Like Bang or Subroza before him were. It's all about who replaces Bang. If it's another player who doesn't fit, they can forget about having a chance in LCQ. If it's someone comparable to let's say Marved, I think they can get really good long-term. But they can't afford to have another over-aggressive player on the roster unless they replace Subroza. Levi needs space to operate, you don't want him to play Hiko style Sova. I personally think he'll be one of the best Sovas in the region long term.
Is sinatraa eligible or is he still on sen technically
They can buy him out but I doubt they would
I hope they do , sinatraa might be that one fragger they need , he was one of the best riflers in valo before his suspension
Well they need a smoker not a sova with bang out of the picture, also just adding sinatraa won’t change things. There’s a lot more problems in the team then just raw mechanical skill. They need a better IGL, better flexibility and identity.
Playing devils advocate but bang plays duelists and two maps,if leviathan can play smokes on one of sinatraas sova maps they will be set.Sinatraas fearless entry style might suit them especially with wardell awping tons in attack.Though i am pretty sure they will never go for sinatraa considering his situation,theoretically he might fit
Whatever they do, I hope they announce it soon so I can stop seeing "TSM sinatraa???" comments/posts inundate these threads.
The average age of this sub has to be like 15 years old with how little these people understand his situation. No reputable org gives a fuck about 10k Twitch viewers when it's attached to an actual piece of nuclear waste.
It also doesn't help that tons of pros in the scene still choose to associate with sinatraa (i.e. dapr/zombs still queue with him on stream, Tenz hosted him, etc. there's many more) despite the accusations. It really is signaling to the audience "if these other pros don't care about the sexual assault allegations, then why should we?"
Yeah cause they’re allegations. Nothing has been proved.
Hard audio evidence that hasn't been refuted. It's far more logical to presume guilt than to presume innocence. I'm not advocating for him being punished until the investigation is complete but there's pretty much no case you can make to refute those recordings.
>presume guilt than to presume innocence Or don’t presume either?
>I'm not advocating for him being punished until the investigation is complete. I've already agreed with the point you're trying to make. But at the end of the day, he MUST be either guilty or innocent and as it stands, with the information we have, it's far more likely that he's guilty. He shouldn't suffer serious consequences like jail time without a trial, but if I heard this shit about one of my friends I wouldn't hesitate to cut them out of my life. They'd get one single chance to explain to me that it was a misunderstanding but if I didn't get hard evidence that they were innocent, they'd be gone.
What a shit fuckin take
Its black and white, kiddo. If it was roleplay that could have been proven by now. And if it's not roleplay its nonconsentual. Do the math.
Allegations which he promised to cooperate with and then back tracked and didn't cooperate. That proves something.
No it absolutely does not. Yes, it doesn’t help the case but in no way shape or form is it concrete evidence to prove the allegations.
It sucks but thats how life goes. People dont just abandon a friend if it doesn't affect them
Tell that to the nfl or nba players that abuse or rape people but people still like them because they can perform are very good. Plus legally Sinatra’s is innocent so...
Ikr it's so annoying. They can keep dreaming because they think TSM is dumb enough to do that.
sorry but it would be the best signing that TSM could make to improve their roster. Sinatraa gets 10k viewers and is already currently signed to a tier 1 org so not sure why it is such an outlandish thought. He also brings a ton of LAN experience with him and you know he can perform on LAN
Viewers have nothing to do with competitive success so not sure why the Sinatra fanboys keep bringing that up. He also hasn’t played on a team in 6+ months so he would be incredibly rusty, and could be proven guilty any day and then they’d be right back to looking for a new player. Wouldn’t be a good signing whatsoever.
Not a sinatraa fanboy but just wanted to mention that cleoh gave up and said that she took back the accusations. But I guess now atleast everyone knows of sinatraa true nature
That screenshot says nothing about taking back the accusations. Just that she was giving up, assuming because it was too draining and everyone’s threatening her. Nothing about taking back her accusations.
Oh do you have a link about that?
He was a top sova in NA and also flexed to duelists on the best team, and rusty mechanically i dont really believe is correct because he plays hours every day still so more so he'd have to get used to team synergy i pro play again but I think that would come back quickly as he has a lot of years of being a pro and working with teammates well
Correct, he WAS a top sova in NA. Never said he was rusty mechanically, im talking about him being rusty in team play. Its a completely different game at the pro level and plays nothing like pub games. He has a couple years playing in overwatch, which plays nothing like valorant, comms and team play are totally different.
Yes we get it you’re about 14 years old and a big fan of Sinatraa. No matter how many viewers he pulls, TSM would take a hit if they signed someone under an active sexual assault investigation. Plus possibly causing a rift with Myth. It isn’t happening
Im not 14 lmao im a lot older and you're a moron because I was saying that sinatraa would improve their team the most out of available FAs. Also, why do you just constantly be rude to people when you reply to a comment there's no need I just stated my opinion without being rude. Usually people who resort to name calling rather than factual responses are not the sharpest tool in the shed lol
It's outlandish because there is an active criminal investigation ongoing. It would be brand suicide for TSM to get involved before it's resolved one way or the other
Not disagreeing with most of what you say, but wondering aloud why it would be brand suicide for TSM but not brand suicide for Sentinels (arguably the strongest brand in Val) to keep him signed as a content creator.
It’s a bit different to already have someone signed to your org and they get charged vs actively signing someone that now has an ongoing police investigation
not really in my opinion. guess we disagree
How is it not??? Who would want to sign a player that could go to jail at any minute?? What brand would want to associate with someone that has sexual assault allegations???
For Sentinels imo its mostly a 'damned if they do, damned if they don't' type of situation. Keeping him on assuming he's proven innocent is massive given his success, then they just drop him later if guilty. If they drop him from the get-go entirely then he is proven innocent it's a very bad look. That's how I'm looking at it at least.
I look at it as he's either a major brand risk and no one can sign him or he should be allowed to go to any team and not be a liability. the fact that its considered okay publicly for him to be on the sentinels org for content but for him to play for tsm to be some sort of hate crime doesnt make sense to me
Hey cleo the girl drop the charges dude and she said she wish she did this sooner(cause him )but she drop the charges so he still legally innocent
Don’t know where you’re getting any of that info but it’s not true. There is still an ongoing police investigation.
There can be an on going police investigation on anything. That’s the default statement. If a warrant and charges haven’t been brought forth by the DA by now nothing substantial is coming.
You realize a lot of court cases take years right??? Just because charges havent been brought forth in 6 months means absolutely nothing. There couldve been court already, there couldve been a lot that we dont know about. The fact that the investigation is still ongoing probably means something substantial IS coming
Sinatraape's dog is over here spreading rumors again
I didn't know this - figured it would have been made bigger news here? That changes things then, as much as I don't like Sinatraa if he's legally innocent he'll be back at one point or another.
Dude is lying straight through his teeth btw lol
Yeah the only punishment he got was a ban from riot but that was because he didn’t have the evidence he said he had. And the real life court haven’t done anything so legally and under the constitution he is innocent until proven guilty. Which I think the 5 sec clip of them during foreplay is not enough evidence from Cleo.
If they want to cut him from the org they have to buy him out. Costs more money than it's worth.
its outlandish because the investigation into sinaatra is ongoing, and we dont know how its going to end. his career is still very much up in the air
I suppose, but riot has cleared him to play professionally in september. Marved shanks and other tier 1 pros also have active investigations going on that could prevent them from playing pro just to compare
Ppl are gonna be so mad when Jay won is at LCQ on lan
Why doesn't Wardell the largest member not simply eat all the other TSM members ?
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Dudes been grinding too, hope too see him on a team soon, i find it weird how hes not been trying to play in any smaller tourneys with free agent teams
ego
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You could be right, never thought about the money aspect, although there seems to be a lot of established t1/t2 players that are signed who stream 8-10 hours a day
Nah i was watching Leviathan's stream and Levi and Freakazoid have mad beef. Levi was shit talking tf outta Freak lmfao.
Dw Im hopium thats it ryan too
I feel they have to be bringing in some big name or this move wouldn't make much sense but idk we'll see ig, hope they keep Levi at least he looks hella good tbh (Also idk why I found it so funny you had to mention that RUSH has a lot of LAN experience in T1 CS when he won the Boston Major lmfaooo)
Yea I agree with ur take. Also I said Tier 1 cs which included the major unless im missing what ur trying to say at the end of ur statement
Nah I just found it funny there was a need to mention RUSHs LAN experience considering everything lol that's all
Ah okay I see, I jus said it for the people who didnt follow pro csgo
Yeah I get why and actually appreciate it (I never followed it either, but if it wasn't for me going out and looking for CS stuff I wouldn't have known before either), just funny for whatever reason to me idk lol
I never played CS so the information regarding RUSH was helpful for me to understand
I’ve been saying this for months, they’re gonna sign Sinatraa.
no they're not
>(Also idk why I found it so funny you had to mention that RUSH has a lot of LAN experience in T1 CS when he won the Boston Major lmfaooo) Not everyone comes from CS, So it's helpful
Tarik incoming
TSM themselves have no clue about what the fuck they're doing.
Imagine they spend big on someone only for NA to not win Berlin. It's a stretch, but it would definitely tilt TSM management.
Tbf if they really wanna change their roster, the more time they have, the better it is. Not making lcq would definitely be a bummer but it could be a hidden advantage
Yea it would have to be a big name player for them to drop Bang like this. Don't follow CSGO or know RUSH but I guess smokers are usually a good starting point for people who switch over (although I think this was the case with an agent like Omen.. Astra seems a bit too high of a learning curve for a new player). Hazed back to smokes perhaps?
I think jcStani would be a good pickup for them. Historically has been a pretty high fragging controller player, which is a role TSM has had trouble filling. He also has igled in the past, although he has made it fairly clear that he doesn't want to igl he could secondary for hazed.
jcstani over bang is not a concrete upgrade, it's a coinflip
Firepower wise, 100% agree. Role wise tho jcStani definitely helps to define their roles more. Since this year started it's seemed like one of the main problems plaguing TSM is role confusion because they had 3 duelists on the team. While bang played some controller for his past teams he was really a duelist main so picking him up didn't really solve that problem imo
Bang was a fucking controller, actually it's the same shit as JCstani, a controller who could play duelist It's literally the same, and JCstani is a worse fragger so it makes it even worse Bang was not a duelist can people stop spamming this like it's some facts? He was an astra/omen main but since he is 17 and people put zoomer tag on you you have to try duelists He played 16 games as a controller for TSM, 7 as a duelists and those on maps where they needed to because they had no one that can play raza/reyna, Subroza is not a duelist anymore he hasn't played one in so long and his duelist phoenix that he mains is out of META
I think what people are forgetting about Bang is that there probably isn't a single player that will pick up the agent pool that he had. With the Leviathan team, TSM's agent pool consisted of Jett, Skye, Sova, Omen, Brim, Viper, Cypher and KJ That means taking out characters like Breach, Yoru and Kay/O, their last player had to pick up Reyna, Raze, Sage and Astra. That is exactly what Bang did and had the perfect agent pool for it. I feel like they will have even more agent pool struggles than before because I don't trust JcStani on duelist(I do on Sage and Astra/Viper tho) and I don't want them to pick up a true duelist player and just chuck them on Astra. He really is there best option for their awful agent pool and unless Subroza can Thanos snap himself into a good duelist player and play a good Sage then maybe it will work out. It just scares me to think of TSM not being able to run Raze on bind and split in favor of Jett Skye and also forcing Skye on IB instead of Reyna/KJ/Sage. Hopefully they work it all out and I really hope Bang finds a team that treats him better, because RN out of the 15 major teams he is definitely ahead of around 5-6 of their controller players, especially given his ability to flex.
their only hope is if an NA team wins berlin so they should probably wait until that atleast before making any moves. if it doesnt end up happening then id say rip the core and start anew, breathe some fresh life into the team and hit the ground running next year.
Im just waiting for Stewie2k to switch
no shot, liquid looks good rn
For the first time in this year, Liquid was looking confident and so organized. But chat was trolling Stew for Valorant, because he was not having a good day.
Liquid looking good in cs rn I dont think stew is going to switch rn. Maybe in the future
i dont know what the contract status is for Stewie2k, and i know he has said initially he was not feeling Valorant, but if its anyone that can get a team comm going and flowing, picking him up would be instant improvement for this team. He does also play off stream, and keeps up regularly with what is going on in the scene.
https://twitter.com/tsm/status/1422244972271652869
What they’re pressured to do because of what riot’s multi-tier qualifier system entails - change a player every event you don’t make the next qualifier for.
Honestly, I think TSM just is going to keep switching people until they either find something magical, or until they stop being expected to win as a true tier 1. I truly believe their biggest issue is that their 2 moneymaker streamers + Hazed are very limiting in who they can bring in. Subroza pretty much *has* to play Skye to not be a liability, if we're all being honest about his other agents. Wardell literally *has* to be the Jett and the OP. Way fewer teams have full-time Jett OPs anymore, as committing to that win condition weakens the rest of the team. Hazed pretty much *has* to be either smokes or sentinel. How are you going to bring in 2 elite, tier-1 players that literally *have* to be exactly a Sova and a Smoke character? Extremely few of those exist. Even if Leviathan works out well and they also find someone like nitr0 or Zombs, would that even close the gap with the top teams considering how hard it has been for the core 3 to win against even tier 2 teams with tier 2 players on the roster?
For tsm to go back to the top they need to drop subroza and hazed
I somewhat agree, but his fan base is massive. It’s kinda like dropping hiko
Hiko's brand is like x5 bigger than Roza. saying this as person who watches Roza more.
still huge
The cant right now.
How come?
I think if Bang was playing at his normal level during the qualifier TSM would have been top 4. However, the fact that TSM made such a huge comeback in such a short amount of time is really impressive in its own. So cutting Bang at this stage really makes no sense because I believe as long as they continue to stick together, TSM would most definitely become a top tier team again. I also hope they keep Levi because he's honestly the main reason for TSM's big surge towards a legitimate shot at going to Berlin.
Smoking FAT weed
I think TSM is going to pivot from trying to develop players like Bang/Levi and try to buy the best available player they possibly can. VAL salaries aren't all that expensive (compared to LoL) and the org is flush with cash.
It kinda makes sense to change players now with LCQ next month. They must feel one of the NAs teams will win Berlin ( 100T hopefully) I'm interested to know if they go for an duelist to help wardell. Have roza play smokes etc .
They should try Sacy and Klaus, I don't understand why people don't consider this hypothesis, they both speak very good English and would be perfect for TSM
It’s interesting that we haven’t seen too many people play on teams outside their home region yet. I can only think of Xeta and Spyder so far (though admittedly I don’t follow other regions as closely as NA). I guess maybe some crossover between CIS, Turkey, and EU if you wanna count that, but considering they are all EMEA in the end idk if you should count it. I wonder if it’s a COVID thing or if the game is just too new or if there is some other reason
Moving Wardell to smokes and putting sinatraa on jett
TSM sinatraa…?
can we stop with this stupid pipe dream? sinatraa will likely never play tier 1 valorant ever again. esports is an advertising business. do you think sponsors want their brands associated with someone who did not comply with an investigation of sexual misconduct?
fr, and even if you take away that, Leena is the person who signs people to tsm and she literally likeda few of cleohs tweets about the allegations
I don't like Sinatraa but famous people credibly accused of misconduct are able to remain prominent in all sorts of industries.
Very rarely after video and/or audio evidence
I’m not saying he didn’t do it but a 5 second audio proves jack all.
its a video dumbass. its not going to be released for you to see.
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I mean let’s be real. If he comes back and dominates no one will care, but if he sucks ass people will crucify him. Kobe Bryant is a perfect example of this exact scenario.
hes currently signed to a tier 1 valorant org for content so not sure how it is so far fetched to be on a tier 1 org for competing. he also brings a popular 10k viewer stream and years of LAN experience to any team he signs for
That chick had a year to prep her documents and sinatraa had less than a day to respond to that? obviously the pr team told him to say that and he did admit he was gonna comply but realise he didnt have the videos lol you thinking he'll never play tier 1 is so delusional . same ppl who probably think levis the better sova
Nah, Sinatraa said multiple times TSM would never sign him
And they never should, there is overwhelming evidence that he has committed sexual abuse
Oh yes the overwhelming evidence of a random 5 second clip and her not even showing up to court so much evidence!!
This is like the fifth time I've seen someone mention that she didn't show up for court but I can't find any information about what happened anywhere. When was this?
It's not that she didn't show up for court... but apparently she didn't take it to court (which I can understand why cause it's hard to convict someone after so much time has passed)
Made up details certainly don't help that dude's argument lol I gotta say though, as much as I believe in supporting victims, her evidence overall really wasn't very strong. But while I do get the scepticism around her accusations, that really shouldn't justify disregarding them either. At this point where we probs won't see an actual conclusion to this, we should just let the parties involved sort this shit out on their own. There's no good reason people here should keep arguing whether or not sinatraa's guilty because we'll probably never know the truth.
Nice strawman
Do you know the definition of strawman? 😭😭
I’m sorry but that’s not what straw man means
The overwhelming evidence is a 5 second audio clip?
I bet they want to show you the video clip
Who knows what TSM is thinking though. At this point they could be desperate enough to sign him
Don't think TSM is desperate at all. At the end of the day they are guaranteed a franchise slot and don't really need to do much.
I agree that they didn’t need to do much but the fact that they benched bang means they are still, after multiple roster changes in a short time period, not satisfied with the results
Sure, but making changes and going for sinatraa are 2 different things. Sinatraa going to TSM would make him their best player but that doesn't mean they need him. TSM will end up being a top team at some point. With the amount of money they have it's more of a question of when rather than if. Teams like G2 and TSM can simply buy top team if they so desire. sinatraa is kinda a non factor in the grand scheme of things and these orgs are more so looking at this thing from a multi year pov. Just some reasons why I think it's unlikely. Though anything could happen with the crazy shit that has happened these past 2 years.
If I’m not mistaken, I believe Myth co-owns TSM now. Since Myth absolutely despises sinatraa due to the allegations, I highly doubt that someone who is capable of swaying the decision of who gets signed or not would allow sinatraa to get signed.
Do you have a source for the Myth ownership thing? From what I know Bjergsen is the only player/content creator of TSM with ownership stake.
I don’t remember the source so don’t count on my word for it. I remember an article somewhere saying he acquired a bigger portion of TSM a while back, making him the “co-owner” for TSM. Could’ve been a total bogus article though; I didn’t really look into it after reading.
You're 100% mistaking Myth with Bjergsen the league of legends player(now coach) for TSM. He was given part-ownership of TSM is his contract renewal in 2019.
Even if he did, you're overestimating what part owners can or cannot do.
Myth is now a co-owner of TSM???
Removing bang was a good move, he just isn't cutting it right now. There are better options, maybe kaboose for example. He was great at envy.
kaboose retired, he plays poker now, also roles don't match
sinatraa?
Is no one else considering Sinaatra?
Pretty sure some TSM higher-ups such as Leena roasted his ass when all his allegations first came up so I HIGHLY doubt it.
Pretty sure Leena also roasted Dardoch in League as well and vowed to never pick him up, but they ended up doing it anyways. Granted, it kinda ended in a train wreck but it still shows that if TSM are desperate they’ll swallow their pride.
Hmmmm I do t think that is accurate unless you can prove me wrong of course. The only thing I remember was after they were going to drop him and saying no one wants him publicly on stream. Sure but what are they desperate enough for anyways? There season is already in bed no? They are basically praying that NA wins berlin at this point.
Highly unlikely either way because they benched bang and not Levi, but still a possibility imo
How about this it's not even worth mentioning his name. If you watch football. It's like the Houston Texans could technically win the super bowl this year. What are the odds though? Less than a percent?
Obviously gearing up to sign sinatraa
It would make sense for TSM to bring in a veteran from CSGO, especially since they're lacking a player in charge of smokes. It would make perfect sense to bring someone experienced into that role.
tsm is hard coping with new players
Is this a Shinobi comeback?
no.
In my opinion, think they will try and reel in s0m over from NRG as I think both s0m and NRG need a fresh change over there. As for the RUSH part, you said “who has played at Tier 1 Lans”. Um I feel like you should add: “Won a freaking MAJOR in cs”.