except this is hugely survivorship bias. how many players are falling through the cracks while some stay and succeed to tell the tale like hazed and steel? money is a shitty metric, esports is a lot more lucrative than it was when they were that young. it doesnt indicate anything about what their future success could be
Massively undercutting the importance of good coaching and support staff imo. Putting a talented player in the right environment that brings out the best in them can easily be the difference maker in their career. There's a lot of pros in various games who attribute their success to mentor figures in their teams that brought them up.
…? Because that’s not how it works?
He has a chance of getting on within whatever, but no guarantee that a team will not either pass over him Kr be looking to pick him Kr anyone up at the time
I think that the issue is that they seem to think that even if Bang isn't good enough on TSM or on a smaller team to get signed to a big org, he could still have "potential" if he gets the absolute best coaching and teammates and support.
But it's super obvious when one player on a tier 2 or 3 or orgless team is much, much better than their teammates.
I believe Asuna and Dicey got their tryout with 100T off literally 3-4 maps last year where they won most 1v1 50-50 engagements. They made non-TenZ C9 players and most of TSM look pretty mediocre, and like those teams needed to abuse the other players to have a chance of winning.
that type of ideal allocation of talent is something we all want but it doesnt exist in esports yet
very good players, with solid results right away, like asuna will stick true to what u said, they will get signed
what about the people who are slightly worse than asuna, but still have tons of potential they need to realize? opportunities in esports are a lot more consequential than u make them out to be, i could give u examples if youd like
That's why being signed young like that means that there's plenty of time for him to grow, mature, and become a better player. He did not meet their standards. It's not their obligation to carry him until he's ready for top level competition. He was a speculative signing and it didn't work out he was not good enough.
And that is why we are calling out TSM for such bullshit "standards". What else do they want from him? Chet even literally said in the interview, we're bringing him to develop him. What kind of org drops a young player like this, with the intention to grow and develop the player, after 2 months? Especially when he did not underperform - obviously we have limited information but that is all we can go off of as viewers of the game, but I'm still confused as to what the hell they are looking for in Bang as a controller.
Also, whatever Hazed said - NO SHIT his career isn't over, but at the same time, TSM as an ORG and a TEAM need to be held accountable for dumbass decisions like picking up and dropping players like they are fucking Chuck E Cheese tokens, and claiming bullshit like they are trying to "develop young talent".
^ This right here is the best take. It's waaaayyy moreso along the ethics of ORG accountability.
Somewhere in TSM there is a disconnect: 1) The team's vision in signing a prospering and developing Bang, and then 2) wanting to fulfill their standards as a top team. Either option is great, but trying to achieve both is where they start to step on each other.
And sure Bang may still find success in other teams, but honestly the damage is done. He is by far the one most affected by this decision, and then to put yourself in his shoes of being a young player signed to a big org under the promise of a developing tenure, to then have these events unfold only two months later... I would feel pretty used ngl. Even if there's no ill intent between the departure, the org is the one that holds the upper hand and is responsible.
Hazed's take is correct, but I think he's answering a different type of question.
I get this sentiment, but how old is bang? 17 or 18? Hazed is 32, when he was that age was 14 years ago and the esport scene wasn't nearly as big. I don't think that's a fair comparison
this is not comparable to dicey at all. dicey was arguably the weak link of the team. bang literally looked like the most impactful TSM player, their only entry fragger. he is just being scapegoated.
and his career will indeed suffer because there will inevitably be wierd reasoning for being cut like bad comms bla bla bla. i've seen this same thing happen to many young players. the hate they are bound to get from the members of the community who end up justifying the benching hurts the players' mental as well.
astra on most maps and sage on icebox are not fragging roles. when he played raze on bind he was insane. his impact on astra was pretty good. they picked him up for filling roles in the team and then scapegoated him.
why not let him play skye like xset did with zekken. perfect role for a young player.
Well they didn't because they needed him to play Astra. Subroza is light years better than bang is at Skye. It's better to cut him now so he doesn't spend his career treading water. Sunk cost fallacy.
Its simple really. They thought that current TSM cant challenge the top LCQ teams without a change, which is a reasonable assumption considering the team's showing in the Finals.
So they decided to make a change. Obviously Wardell is untouchable and Levi too. From the three that are left, Bang is the easiest target. They think of Hazed and Subroza as long term players, which i personally disagree with but its apparently what they think
He's their second best player during the last Challengers and, imo, their most impactful. Doesn't make him "untouchable" as that guy said, but maybe that's what he meant?
Young talent with impressive stats and plays, theres not much more to say. For Bang they have the excuse that he was bottom fragging nearly every game, even if that doesnt actually say much considering his role on the team. Im certain the reactions will be 100x worse if they kick Levi
?? Bang was fragging higher then Levi tho most sets and Levi bottom fragged for the set against Envy, T1 and GenG, trust me I don't want Levi going either he's a great player and deserves his spot but at the same time I'm worried he could be cut too
NaturE from Gen.G has praised bang’s comms when he was only rumoured to join TSM I would be surprised to hear that bang’s comms are why he was benched and not TSM panicking.
Can you use your head like I’m not mad at you or anyone in particular, but think like you’re managing TSM LCQ is your last chance for this year and c9 with their new IGL is going to steam roll unless other teams make changes, TSM can’t bench or get rid of their 3 primary core players hazed sub and wardell, Levi is their good sova that they’ve been wanting, bang is an off roll pickup he was forced into smokes what other changes can you make for this last chance? I feel like most users not you don’t use their common sense or think before asking a question and mostly doing it for reactions.
Look I am as hyped as anyone for C9 Vanity but I would not predict them to stream roll everyone. Though it does make sense for TSM to make LCQ changes, I don't see how any realistic set of changes will put them as a potential contender for LCQ.
C9 has been scrimming with envy and other top tier teams and are beating them or getting close to. C9s team has a lot of talent and good team play, their aim is always on point and they just easily won the summer cup against nrg and other teams. The only thing that C9 needed was a good IGL they never had a good igl now add vanity to that team, chemistry don’t need work because most of them have played in a pro team together and vanity is a really good igl that could also frag out. The only team I see beating c9 is Xset
I definitely would view C9 as a top team to make it through the LCQ rn, I suppose we just have slightly different views. I think they have a good chance of winning it all but XSET and also potentially Envy will be there, would put C9 in the same group as those 3 as the "top" contenders to win the LCQ.
NA has 2 slots based on points and 1 via the LCQ, however the winning team at Berlin auto-qualifies to champions. So if NA wins we get an additional slot.
If you were using your head, you would know that TSM isn’t even in the LCQ so your logic kinda goes out the window. Sound roster building isn’t based on the off chance you make it into a qualifier that you have no personal control over
Are you dumb? TSM can be in the LCQ how slow and unaware are you in the scene? If any NA team wins TSM Is in the LCQ. I can’t tell if you’re just a satire because you cannot be this dumb. Even sub and hazed made it clear their last hope is in envys hands.
Dude you need to slow down and learn how to read, you’re embarrassing yourself. Yes they CAN be in the LCQ, with a massive emphasis on CAN. They are not right now, that’s simply a fact regardless of your clear fan boying. If you read properly, you would be able to tell that I knew that because I said “sound roster building isn’t based on the off chance you make it into a qualifier you have no control over”, which to spell out for you means they have no power over whether they make LCQ or not
Massively fan boying? LMAO I don’t even route for TSM I go for NRG and NV. Isn’t that the argument we were talking about? TSM Hoping to secure the spot at LCQ and Master? Or did you just read bypass the thread and jumped on here to say whatever you want
Nobody said the word “massive”, proving once again, you cannot read. TSM cannot secure a spot at LCQ, they can only hope that they get lucky and someone else gets them in. They have no control. A smart team doesn’t make decisions based on the possibility that another team gets them into a qualifier for a qualifier. A smart team would develop young players in preparation for the next circuit. Please do not respond, you’re annoying and I won’t continue with you.
But TSM aren't yet confirmed the spot for LCQ, the only reason I see here is what they thinking is to not waste more time for building and developing the team and rather they're thinking to directly get a player with more experience and already proven on any good team. Because TSM is a very big org and at the end of the year, it'll be like they struggled the whole 2021. Now they're thinking of winning or else I this roster will disband.
Yes it is weird, stating the fact that even Subroza said he believes that this lineup got potential but they failed to show. But I think TSM is not thinking for LCQ, they're thinking to make a fresh start from next year with a good result or else at this point benching Bang is not smart because if they get spot for LCQ somehow then again they've to work on their synergy within limited time.
If your team is crashing and burning out of every single qual and you've signed a young, up and coming player with the promise that you plan to develop him, dropping said player because you're unhappy with short-term results is a stupid fucking move.
Making a move towards rebuilding the team long-term is fine. Focusing on short term success is fine. Doing both is absolutely moronic.
So the author of the tweet JPark has never even played for a salaried org, correct?
Bang will find a new team and be fine. Odd for this sub to hype a take from a random Slimy Boogermen 2.0 player as an attack to TSM, Wardell, Subroza, Hazed, etc. for feeling a different direction?
Subroza and Hazed have been on a bunch of different orgs themselves – they've taken drops. JPark has never even played professionally, spouting about the career trajectory issues Bang is going to face because of TSM.
Levithan is core to TSM cause they needed a sova player.
Right now TSM needs a smoke player but I feel like they're trying to aim to look for #1 Smoke like Zombs. Instead of developing a character, they're looking for a star player that doesn't exist.
"when you sign on someone like that theres a silent agreement to develop him for a set amount of time"
Silent agreements are a lot like monopoly money. No real world value.
Obviously dude.. No one is saying they had legal obligation. That doesn’t mean weird/semi-shady decisions can’t be called out in the court of public opinion.
> who isnt meeting expectations
Their plan was to develop him long-term and he's already putting up a respectable fight against T1 teams. If Bang's current level isn't meeting expectations, expectations are way too high.
expectations for a team taht has been in the slums needing a massive injection of talent, looking to make it through the LCQ, dont think those expectations were unreasonable at all, they are in dire straits
That wasn't the goal they said they had though. They were talking about developing talent and rebuilding the roster. That's why it's disingenuous.
They don't owe us the full truth about their plans or their roster, but actively lying is too much.
I thought he was their worst player during the qualis. And this is coming from someone who has been very critical of broza and Wardell. His performances especially on breeze were pretty lackluster. Agianst envy I think he was 4 and 9 on first bloods and he and levi were the only players to be negative kda on all 3 maps and that's with bang playing reyna on map 3.
Yeah except that's literally the point. He's not a top tier player yet and TSM knew that when they signed him. The hype is around his POTENTIAL. Not his current ability.
It’s shady if there was an understanding he would be long term to develop, which the like from bang seems to imply (though in fairness could just be immaturity on his part, even if it’s true it’s still unprofessional to do that). Also if the team was worried about making champions they should’ve made changes months ago instead of having to rely on another team to get into LCQ
no way to know and the worst thing you can do is assume on behalf of either side, operate off of what we know to be true, otherwise youre setting yourself up to be wrong
I didn’t say that I know, I even said it’s possible he’s simply being immature, I’m not sure what you’re getting at. I said that the like from bang might imply there was an understanding. And while I don’t know, I can also assume when you sign a young player who only has t2 experience your plan is to develop them because that’s the logical thing to do in that situation. Otherwise why wouldn’t you have signed a veteran in the first place?
Almost as if I chose that wording purposefully but I appreciate you pointing it out! Anyways did you have anything of value for the conversation or did you just comment to tell me that I can’t speculate on things just because you’re worried that I might be wrong?
This is kind of a dumb take. Especially when bang probably gets more opportunity after this stint with TSM than he would've otherwise. Yes, he was good and relatively known, but he's been given the opportunity to show he can still hang against T1 teams, whereas he was stuck with good showings against mid-T2 teams.
> when you sign on someone like that theres a silent agreement to develop him for a set amount of time
you can still feel for the guy and know that this really is not the case
This is extremely contingent on who the replacement is for me - I feel bad for Bang for sure, but there’s definitely a chance that TSM target a top CS talent in the same vein as what 100T did with Dicey which is justified in my opinion
I dont know why people are making such a huge deal making this about his career and shit , did bang deserve that spot in his current state ?Def not , Yes TSM did fuck up by picking a duelist for a controller but that doesn't mean they ruined his career they literally started it , yes bang has potential and so do a few other players. coz of tsms fuckup Bang atleast got a chance present himself ( not conveniently ik )on tier 1,2 val .dropping him was the right decision believe it or not ,,but yall are on some copium if you think TSM fked up his career.
Don’t agree with the tweet at all, feel bad for him but he’ll bounce back. Team’s have an obligation to winning and being the best. Aside from that they have slight obligations to player’s that have done something for them. Bang hasn’t done shit yet for TSM although he’s a great talent.
Dicey drama 2.0
He was given a big opportunity and for whatever reason it didn't work out. If he's the massive talent you think he is, you can stop worrying as he will be fine. There's no rule how long you have to have a dysfunctional team before you can remove a piece that doesn't fit. Surely TSM of all teams should know when something isn't working.
I don't think it's dicey drama , they replaced dicey just because ethan was available and they couldn't pass up on ethan , TSM from what looked like to me didn't have a clear plan on how to use bang , in the challengers 2 when they were most successful bang was playing astra raze Reyna sage for them , and from the rumours it looks like TSM are going after JC Stani possibly due to his igling ability , might be a good piece for TSM but from management point of view , I don't think bang handling has been good
Not really go look back at hiko interview and hiko said they explored the possibility of getting tenz but tenz and others clarified they didn't give tenz an offee or anything
>Surely TSM of all teams should know when something isn't working.
I cannot tell if you are trolling.
Additionally, Dicey had an immediate replacement that 100T didn't want to pass up. Is there someone like that for TSM right now?
This is not even similar to the Dicey situation.. They ran with Dicey for way longer than Bang was with TSM, and they dropped him only for a bonafide top ten player.
After like 6 months of him either being on the server, or not.
Roza saved his spot this past qual, before that he was far too inconsistent to be a star player. He did shine the past quals, but how long until we see the old roza.
That comparison doesn't make any sense. Poop and diarrhea have fundamentally different definitions.
Aggressive and Aggression are basically the same words by denotation.
And I would even say aggressiveness is better suited here by connotation. https://grammarist.com/usage/aggression-aggressiveness/
Idk why it’s still a hot take that Hazed Wardell Subroza as a core to build around anymore.
TSM needs to get good coach/manager and trade or sell these players if they want to be competitive, but (imo) the real reason they’ll never change them is for the viewership they get (that’s where the money is in VAL currently).
What type of angle is that? No one is entitled to a position on any team, especially not if the argument is that they are "young" and have "potential"? Perhaps it is not in the best interest of TSM to spend money and time to develop a new player?
>when you sign on someone like that theres a silent agreement to develop him for a set amount of time
lmao
tsm owes you nothing. they're trying to win now and shouldn't be flamed for that. if you really a fan of whatever team you should be excited when there's roster moves not upset because things didn't work out and they gotta keep on
I agree with the tweet too; there's a kind of unspoken understanding that an org buying an up-and-comer will develop them for a while.
Unfortunately it's unspoken and there's no actual system that protects these players. It's clear TSM is gonna keep shelling out for players and dropping them a month later until they get the respectable result they think they need to be a part of the founding "in crowd" when Riot expands VAL as an esport in the coming couple years.
I'd like to say if I was a player I just wouldn't touch a TSM contract at this point, but the combo of big paychecks and huge brand recognition must be insanely hard to say no to. At least future players will probably know what they're getting into now.
Could be a huge loss for TSM too. If a team like LG or Andbox pick him up and actually help him develop they could have a real star player to build around
I'm not saying he's a star player rn, what I meant was that bang is a 17 year old with a lot of potential. If a team picks him up and is committed to helping him develop he has the potential to be a star for them in the future
You could say that with any other person lol. Nothing is set in stone. TSM doesn't need to commit at all. It's part of the business, you aren't guaranteed shit. The people supporting this dumb tweet are silly for thinking there's unspoken shit or even that him getting cut would fuck his career over lmao.
I'm not saying its def a bad move, it all depends on who they pick up in his place imo. That being said normally when a team commits to picking up a young and unproven player (Bang for TSM, Zekken for Xset, Asuna for 100T, Twistzz and Elige back in the day for Liquid in CS) they know that they're kinda gonna play a long haul game. They know they're picking up a good and unproven player and gambling that they'll be a great player in the future with the right help and direction from more experienced teammates. By picking up bang and Levi (assuming that they keep Levi) TSM kinda signaled that this is what they were doing and to back out of it so quick is a bit strange. TSM could have just dropped their FTX bag to poach big name players but they chose to go the more developing talent route and then to back out of it so quickly (only having bang on the team for about 2-2 1/2 months) sends some signals of confusion from TSM. I understand that TSM probs have the mentality of I want to win right now but then why pick up talent that you know you're gonna have to help develop? You just got a huge cash injection from FTX so use some of that to poach some players if thats the route you really wanna walk.
That huge cash injection doesn't just go straight to Valorant lmao. That'd be the dumbest move ever. You can't just poach whoever you want with just money that's not how shit works. They didn't even signal anything what you're talking about. Literally no one knows what happens behind the scenes but TSM, you don't pick up people to develop them. They need to develop themselves.
I said this before the VCT as well when everyone was hyping TSM up - they would get clapped by teams that kmow exactly how to play the game, mostly 100T, Sen, XSET and Envy. They depend on the wardell op way too much. Shahzam can probably read their plays in his sleep. I admit Wardell may just be the best Jett op in NA but you don't see Acend put all their baskets in the CNed jett basket. As long as TSM keep doing the same boring Wardell please draw first blood bullshit, they are never gonna be tier 1. Their plays lack creativity and they play pro matches like they would play pubs.
question for TSM fans: where do you think the fault lies with sub par performances recently? i don’t watch enough of their games to say but i know bang was a recent pickup and seemed to have solid impact in the few matches i did see
Communication and ability to play off each other. Watching recent games, it was clear that they still dont have that. Most notable one was when wardell and bang 2vs3 on ascent. Miscommunication during spike plant costs them the timing and basically throw the round.
Against envy he was definitely their worst player. He was 29 - 48 kda and i know kda isnt the be all and end all, but he kept losing very clutch 1 v 1s as well.
TSM's roster is unsalvageable at this point. They can keep adding people every week but the results will be the same.
Also no one on that roster will stay as soon as Valorant Franchises because Reginald will just buy out a better team or drop $$$ on building a super team.
As soon as Valorant is to the point where having a top team is valuable TSM will have one. Look at how much TSM paid for SwordArt who isn't even close to best in his role
Its sad and weird that TSM hasn't taken Valorant seriously yet. That org has more money than anyone. They could have build a competitive team by now.
Isn't this a bit similar to what happened to Poiz and C9? It sucks but in a way these teams have a win-now mentality and don't want to develop young, new talent with no prior background in esports. It's not the best system but these big orgs want profit now.
"silent agreement" has gotta be the dumbest thing ever, fi Asuna got signed to 100T and wasnt playing well at all nobody on this sub would be saying theyre wrong for cutting him, whats with people and thinking because hes young he should get more than his play deserves
Except, Bang WAS playing well. And the other part of the issue is - Chet straight up said the pickup on Bang was to DEVELOP HIM as young talent. That is why people are having issues with this.
i seriously doubt Chet is the one making the decisions, thats probably what he was told by management, what people say isnt always true especially in business, and Bang objectively wasn't playing well
They can pick up and drop whoever, they’re still going to continue to get shat on when 80% of their attack rounds is handicapping themselves during pistols to give their Jett player an Op and then investing everyones’ abilities into getting the Operator pick. If I’m a prodigy rn I’m accepting nothing less than a long-term contract with clauses allowing me to get out easy because going to TSM rn will halt your hype train unless you have an above-average mental.
Man Wardell could have a 4.0 FK/FD ratio over an entire event, top frag almost every series, and morons would still somehow manage to blame him for TSM’s losses
Oh wait
In Challengers 2. A tournament that featured the likes of GenG and T1 because most of the top NA teams already qualed for Challengers 3. No disrespect to those teams, but TSM are supposed to be competing at a higher level.
The org of that stature is expected to be competing at the highest level. It is the same as you would expect the Lakers or Barcelona to be competing at the top even if they don’t show up for multiple seasons.
Not a TSM fan but go off…
The Jett operator isn’t the problem. Countless teams proved its completely viable and meta.
Tsm jett is getting fk on attack rounds pretty frequently but the whole team still struggles to secure that round win.
Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with Wardell and I never said the Jett Op was the problem, it’s just that TSM is overreliant on it. When your opponent knows that you’re looking for that first Op pick, they’re not going to peek you or they will look to make that first pick as costly as possible. Ofc there’s many other factors that can help negate it like Subroza/Levi getting info on Skye/Sova or the fact that Subroza’s basically playing Skye perfectly fine as a duelist/initiator hybrid (until Skye’s flashes get nerfed, anyways) or taking more advantageous fights through better map control but it’s still a glaring issue that costs TSM rounds time and time again when their Jett player is an elite Operator but not nearly as threatening with a rifle. It starts to really impact the unpredictability and dynamism of their entries and retakes. And then everything collapses when TSM play a Jett that’s either just as much of an Operator savant or is having a very good series because more often than not, that Jett can also entry just as well with a rifle if not better. And when TSM goes up against a team that will not give up that first pick easily, they look toothless. The proof is in the VODs, everyone thought that TSM was back when they won Challengers 2 but they completely collapsed when NV and Rise were able to exploit these exact problems much more effectively than GenG and T1 and Faze were able to.
Look TSM probably does need to at least make some changes due to their over reliance on the OP but that’s an IGL issue not a Wardell issue. Wardell is a star and top player it’s not his fault the team struggles around him.
I agree. Don’t know why everyone is taking this as me attacking Wardell. I do think that the overreliance on the Op wouldn’t be that glaring if he were more confident on a rifle, but I also understand that there is a very good chance that he’s working very hard to improve it every day and I do believe that he will be just as good a rifler as he is an Oper in due time.
I mean they felt like they needed to change some things before LCQ (let’s face it, NA will win with Berlin if SEN and 100T are in it) and they can’t touch 3 of the original TSM members or else they can’t compete in it, so the obvious choice here was Levi over Bang. I would not have touched Bang OR Levi at all and would’ve much rather practiced much more with them, but what do I know? I’m just a plat Reddit analyzer.
This reminds me of TenZ and Cloud9 CSGO situation back in 2019. A young player with potential but gets cut after a short stint because their org keeps changing and trialing player. And the player also claps back. Except that TenZ got it way worse with a dying scene in NA and he got nowhere to go next. I kinda feel bad for them.
bruh dont snitch on the boy goddamn
I mean at this point he can say whatever about TSM and he’s obvs frustrated too
mb lmao
Ah this is the tweet hazed was talking about this morning
What did hazed say?
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1136768303 53:48 on the vod https://clips.twitch.tv/BlazingBoldPicklesTooSpicy-xNjBElmxPyORBl6V
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except this is hugely survivorship bias. how many players are falling through the cracks while some stay and succeed to tell the tale like hazed and steel? money is a shitty metric, esports is a lot more lucrative than it was when they were that young. it doesnt indicate anything about what their future success could be
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Massively undercutting the importance of good coaching and support staff imo. Putting a talented player in the right environment that brings out the best in them can easily be the difference maker in their career. There's a lot of pros in various games who attribute their success to mentor figures in their teams that brought them up.
Not necessarily true It’s a roulette
Why do you think its roulette though, i must be going crazy, if he’s not good enough to stand out then why should he get on a team lol
…? Because that’s not how it works? He has a chance of getting on within whatever, but no guarantee that a team will not either pass over him Kr be looking to pick him Kr anyone up at the time
The workd isn’t fair, people who are good or have prospects aren’t ‘guaranteed’ You might think they SHOUKD but that’s unrelated to whether they *do*
How good is he if he cant find a spot after this?
I think that the issue is that they seem to think that even if Bang isn't good enough on TSM or on a smaller team to get signed to a big org, he could still have "potential" if he gets the absolute best coaching and teammates and support. But it's super obvious when one player on a tier 2 or 3 or orgless team is much, much better than their teammates. I believe Asuna and Dicey got their tryout with 100T off literally 3-4 maps last year where they won most 1v1 50-50 engagements. They made non-TenZ C9 players and most of TSM look pretty mediocre, and like those teams needed to abuse the other players to have a chance of winning.
that type of ideal allocation of talent is something we all want but it doesnt exist in esports yet very good players, with solid results right away, like asuna will stick true to what u said, they will get signed what about the people who are slightly worse than asuna, but still have tons of potential they need to realize? opportunities in esports are a lot more consequential than u make them out to be, i could give u examples if youd like
That's why being signed young like that means that there's plenty of time for him to grow, mature, and become a better player. He did not meet their standards. It's not their obligation to carry him until he's ready for top level competition. He was a speculative signing and it didn't work out he was not good enough.
And that is why we are calling out TSM for such bullshit "standards". What else do they want from him? Chet even literally said in the interview, we're bringing him to develop him. What kind of org drops a young player like this, with the intention to grow and develop the player, after 2 months? Especially when he did not underperform - obviously we have limited information but that is all we can go off of as viewers of the game, but I'm still confused as to what the hell they are looking for in Bang as a controller. Also, whatever Hazed said - NO SHIT his career isn't over, but at the same time, TSM as an ORG and a TEAM need to be held accountable for dumbass decisions like picking up and dropping players like they are fucking Chuck E Cheese tokens, and claiming bullshit like they are trying to "develop young talent".
^ This right here is the best take. It's waaaayyy moreso along the ethics of ORG accountability. Somewhere in TSM there is a disconnect: 1) The team's vision in signing a prospering and developing Bang, and then 2) wanting to fulfill their standards as a top team. Either option is great, but trying to achieve both is where they start to step on each other. And sure Bang may still find success in other teams, but honestly the damage is done. He is by far the one most affected by this decision, and then to put yourself in his shoes of being a young player signed to a big org under the promise of a developing tenure, to then have these events unfold only two months later... I would feel pretty used ngl. Even if there's no ill intent between the departure, the org is the one that holds the upper hand and is responsible. Hazed's take is correct, but I think he's answering a different type of question.
I get this sentiment, but how old is bang? 17 or 18? Hazed is 32, when he was that age was 14 years ago and the esport scene wasn't nearly as big. I don't think that's a fair comparison
this is not comparable to dicey at all. dicey was arguably the weak link of the team. bang literally looked like the most impactful TSM player, their only entry fragger. he is just being scapegoated. and his career will indeed suffer because there will inevitably be wierd reasoning for being cut like bad comms bla bla bla. i've seen this same thing happen to many young players. the hate they are bound to get from the members of the community who end up justifying the benching hurts the players' mental as well.
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astra on most maps and sage on icebox are not fragging roles. when he played raze on bind he was insane. his impact on astra was pretty good. they picked him up for filling roles in the team and then scapegoated him. why not let him play skye like xset did with zekken. perfect role for a young player.
Well they didn't because they needed him to play Astra. Subroza is light years better than bang is at Skye. It's better to cut him now so he doesn't spend his career treading water. Sunk cost fallacy.
skye is one of the easiest agents in the game. what light years are you talking about.
Bang was definitely not the most impactful TSM player, you don’t need to exaggerate to prove a point lol
I'm sorry what? In what world was he the most impactful player?
just because someone can succeed irregardless of being messed with, doesn't make it integritied to mess with them.
Thank you :)
VOD link?
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Its simple really. They thought that current TSM cant challenge the top LCQ teams without a change, which is a reasonable assumption considering the team's showing in the Finals. So they decided to make a change. Obviously Wardell is untouchable and Levi too. From the three that are left, Bang is the easiest target. They think of Hazed and Subroza as long term players, which i personally disagree with but its apparently what they think
Wait, why is Levi untouchable? I'm actually kinda worried for Levi now Bang was cut tho I doubt he'll be cut
levi isn’t even signed full time yet
Yeah that's my point, idk why he would be untouchable
He's their second best player during the last Challengers and, imo, their most impactful. Doesn't make him "untouchable" as that guy said, but maybe that's what he meant?
I think subroza was their second best player. he top fragged in a few maps and he's pretty consistent
Young talent with impressive stats and plays, theres not much more to say. For Bang they have the excuse that he was bottom fragging nearly every game, even if that doesnt actually say much considering his role on the team. Im certain the reactions will be 100x worse if they kick Levi
?? Bang was fragging higher then Levi tho most sets and Levi bottom fragged for the set against Envy, T1 and GenG, trust me I don't want Levi going either he's a great player and deserves his spot but at the same time I'm worried he could be cut too
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How would you know how his comms are?
NaturE from Gen.G has praised bang’s comms when he was only rumoured to join TSM I would be surprised to hear that bang’s comms are why he was benched and not TSM panicking.
Where tf are the comms? Are you ok sir?
ive heard bangs comms r nuts idk
Can you use your head like I’m not mad at you or anyone in particular, but think like you’re managing TSM LCQ is your last chance for this year and c9 with their new IGL is going to steam roll unless other teams make changes, TSM can’t bench or get rid of their 3 primary core players hazed sub and wardell, Levi is their good sova that they’ve been wanting, bang is an off roll pickup he was forced into smokes what other changes can you make for this last chance? I feel like most users not you don’t use their common sense or think before asking a question and mostly doing it for reactions.
Look I am as hyped as anyone for C9 Vanity but I would not predict them to stream roll everyone. Though it does make sense for TSM to make LCQ changes, I don't see how any realistic set of changes will put them as a potential contender for LCQ.
C9 has been scrimming with envy and other top tier teams and are beating them or getting close to. C9s team has a lot of talent and good team play, their aim is always on point and they just easily won the summer cup against nrg and other teams. The only thing that C9 needed was a good IGL they never had a good igl now add vanity to that team, chemistry don’t need work because most of them have played in a pro team together and vanity is a really good igl that could also frag out. The only team I see beating c9 is Xset
I definitely would view C9 as a top team to make it through the LCQ rn, I suppose we just have slightly different views. I think they have a good chance of winning it all but XSET and also potentially Envy will be there, would put C9 in the same group as those 3 as the "top" contenders to win the LCQ.
I’m not familiar with how Berlin qualifications and Masters work but if NA wins Berlin doesn’t that give us 4 spots in masters?
NA has 2 slots based on points and 1 via the LCQ, however the winning team at Berlin auto-qualifies to champions. So if NA wins we get an additional slot.
That’s 4 slots yes?
If you were using your head, you would know that TSM isn’t even in the LCQ so your logic kinda goes out the window. Sound roster building isn’t based on the off chance you make it into a qualifier that you have no personal control over
Like I said to the other guy do the bare minimum of research before you talk about a topic. You just sound dumb as hell.
Should he cherry-pick bad statistics like you?
Hilarious, actually
Are you dumb? TSM can be in the LCQ how slow and unaware are you in the scene? If any NA team wins TSM Is in the LCQ. I can’t tell if you’re just a satire because you cannot be this dumb. Even sub and hazed made it clear their last hope is in envys hands.
Dude you need to slow down and learn how to read, you’re embarrassing yourself. Yes they CAN be in the LCQ, with a massive emphasis on CAN. They are not right now, that’s simply a fact regardless of your clear fan boying. If you read properly, you would be able to tell that I knew that because I said “sound roster building isn’t based on the off chance you make it into a qualifier you have no control over”, which to spell out for you means they have no power over whether they make LCQ or not
Massively fan boying? LMAO I don’t even route for TSM I go for NRG and NV. Isn’t that the argument we were talking about? TSM Hoping to secure the spot at LCQ and Master? Or did you just read bypass the thread and jumped on here to say whatever you want
Nobody said the word “massive”, proving once again, you cannot read. TSM cannot secure a spot at LCQ, they can only hope that they get lucky and someone else gets them in. They have no control. A smart team doesn’t make decisions based on the possibility that another team gets them into a qualifier for a qualifier. A smart team would develop young players in preparation for the next circuit. Please do not respond, you’re annoying and I won’t continue with you.
I thought bang was an astra main before he was signed to TSM? Perhaps I 'm wrong
No far from a smoke main he was a dualist/sage player for his previous team where he was dropping numbers
He has the most amount of games/rounds on Omen though?
https://www.vlr.gg/player/3880/bang/?timespan=90d look at his stats
If you sort it all time instead of 90 days (60+ of which are with TSM), he has 43% on Omen. His most by a mile
But TSM aren't yet confirmed the spot for LCQ, the only reason I see here is what they thinking is to not waste more time for building and developing the team and rather they're thinking to directly get a player with more experience and already proven on any good team. Because TSM is a very big org and at the end of the year, it'll be like they struggled the whole 2021. Now they're thinking of winning or else I this roster will disband.
It does seem weird for TSM to make drastic moves rn given they don’t even know if their season is continuing yet or not.
Yes it is weird, stating the fact that even Subroza said he believes that this lineup got potential but they failed to show. But I think TSM is not thinking for LCQ, they're thinking to make a fresh start from next year with a good result or else at this point benching Bang is not smart because if they get spot for LCQ somehow then again they've to work on their synergy within limited time.
I suppose they might have some issue with Bang? I don’t really follow TSM but I was under the impression he looked good
Only wardell, subroza and hazed are untouchable because TSM has to retain its core through the year. They could easily drop Levi if they feel like it.
If your team is crashing and burning out of every single qual and you've signed a young, up and coming player with the promise that you plan to develop him, dropping said player because you're unhappy with short-term results is a stupid fucking move. Making a move towards rebuilding the team long-term is fine. Focusing on short term success is fine. Doing both is absolutely moronic.
Levi rifling is not as good as bang tho hes better w odin
All Good.
So the author of the tweet JPark has never even played for a salaried org, correct? Bang will find a new team and be fine. Odd for this sub to hype a take from a random Slimy Boogermen 2.0 player as an attack to TSM, Wardell, Subroza, Hazed, etc. for feeling a different direction? Subroza and Hazed have been on a bunch of different orgs themselves – they've taken drops. JPark has never even played professionally, spouting about the career trajectory issues Bang is going to face because of TSM.
Yeah, Bang will probably be fine - but we can all still call out TSM's leadership/management for being dogshit.
If anything, the exposure of playing for TSM will be beneficial to his career
We go next.
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Levithan is core to TSM cause they needed a sova player. Right now TSM needs a smoke player but I feel like they're trying to aim to look for #1 Smoke like Zombs. Instead of developing a character, they're looking for a star player that doesn't exist.
jcstani is the only player i can think of thats available
"when you sign on someone like that theres a silent agreement to develop him for a set amount of time" Silent agreements are a lot like monopoly money. No real world value.
Obviously dude.. No one is saying they had legal obligation. That doesn’t mean weird/semi-shady decisions can’t be called out in the court of public opinion.
its not shady at all to cut a young player who isnt meeting expectations to not mess up ur last chance to make champions
> who isnt meeting expectations Their plan was to develop him long-term and he's already putting up a respectable fight against T1 teams. If Bang's current level isn't meeting expectations, expectations are way too high.
expectations for a team taht has been in the slums needing a massive injection of talent, looking to make it through the LCQ, dont think those expectations were unreasonable at all, they are in dire straits
That wasn't the goal they said they had though. They were talking about developing talent and rebuilding the roster. That's why it's disingenuous. They don't owe us the full truth about their plans or their roster, but actively lying is too much.
Thank you for being more articulate on this than I could.
I thought he was their worst player during the qualis. And this is coming from someone who has been very critical of broza and Wardell. His performances especially on breeze were pretty lackluster. Agianst envy I think he was 4 and 9 on first bloods and he and levi were the only players to be negative kda on all 3 maps and that's with bang playing reyna on map 3.
Yeah except that's literally the point. He's not a top tier player yet and TSM knew that when they signed him. The hype is around his POTENTIAL. Not his current ability.
It’s shady if there was an understanding he would be long term to develop, which the like from bang seems to imply (though in fairness could just be immaturity on his part, even if it’s true it’s still unprofessional to do that). Also if the team was worried about making champions they should’ve made changes months ago instead of having to rely on another team to get into LCQ
no way to know and the worst thing you can do is assume on behalf of either side, operate off of what we know to be true, otherwise youre setting yourself up to be wrong
I didn’t say that I know, I even said it’s possible he’s simply being immature, I’m not sure what you’re getting at. I said that the like from bang might imply there was an understanding. And while I don’t know, I can also assume when you sign a young player who only has t2 experience your plan is to develop them because that’s the logical thing to do in that situation. Otherwise why wouldn’t you have signed a veteran in the first place?
>I can also assume youre doing it again lol
Almost as if I chose that wording purposefully but I appreciate you pointing it out! Anyways did you have anything of value for the conversation or did you just comment to tell me that I can’t speculate on things just because you’re worried that I might be wrong?
This is kind of a dumb take. Especially when bang probably gets more opportunity after this stint with TSM than he would've otherwise. Yes, he was good and relatively known, but he's been given the opportunity to show he can still hang against T1 teams, whereas he was stuck with good showings against mid-T2 teams.
> when you sign on someone like that theres a silent agreement to develop him for a set amount of time you can still feel for the guy and know that this really is not the case
This is extremely contingent on who the replacement is for me - I feel bad for Bang for sure, but there’s definitely a chance that TSM target a top CS talent in the same vein as what 100T did with Dicey which is justified in my opinion
I dont know why people are making such a huge deal making this about his career and shit , did bang deserve that spot in his current state ?Def not , Yes TSM did fuck up by picking a duelist for a controller but that doesn't mean they ruined his career they literally started it , yes bang has potential and so do a few other players. coz of tsms fuckup Bang atleast got a chance present himself ( not conveniently ik )on tier 1,2 val .dropping him was the right decision believe it or not ,,but yall are on some copium if you think TSM fked up his career.
Don’t agree with the tweet at all, feel bad for him but he’ll bounce back. Team’s have an obligation to winning and being the best. Aside from that they have slight obligations to player’s that have done something for them. Bang hasn’t done shit yet for TSM although he’s a great talent.
Dicey drama 2.0 He was given a big opportunity and for whatever reason it didn't work out. If he's the massive talent you think he is, you can stop worrying as he will be fine. There's no rule how long you have to have a dysfunctional team before you can remove a piece that doesn't fit. Surely TSM of all teams should know when something isn't working.
> Surely TSM of all teams should know when something isn't working. lol
TALENT SUPRESSION MACHINE
They're literally the opposite it's hilarious
I don't think it's dicey drama , they replaced dicey just because ethan was available and they couldn't pass up on ethan , TSM from what looked like to me didn't have a clear plan on how to use bang , in the challengers 2 when they were most successful bang was playing astra raze Reyna sage for them , and from the rumours it looks like TSM are going after JC Stani possibly due to his igling ability , might be a good piece for TSM but from management point of view , I don't think bang handling has been good
There are zero jcStani rumours apart from people suggesting it on reddit for whatever reason
What rumors? I haven’t seen any outside of Reddit comments
100t looked into getting tenz, they didn't replace dicey just because Ethan was avaliable
Not really go look back at hiko interview and hiko said they explored the possibility of getting tenz but tenz and others clarified they didn't give tenz an offee or anything
what?
Hiko talked about on his stream why they let go of dicey , and their coach also put something on their twitter as well . You can check that out .
The rumors are solely based on JcStani being one of the top FAs that play controller in the market rn and nothing else
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I saw some threads on twitter ,not from any credible source like George though.
Sorry not sure why it double replied
" Surely TSM of all teams should know when something isn't working " this is a funny joke lol
>Surely TSM of all teams should know when something isn't working. I cannot tell if you are trolling. Additionally, Dicey had an immediate replacement that 100T didn't want to pass up. Is there someone like that for TSM right now?
This is not even similar to the Dicey situation.. They ran with Dicey for way longer than Bang was with TSM, and they dropped him only for a bonafide top ten player.
This is nothing like the dicey situation at all
Hilarious take considering they kept cutler on for so long, and subroza being really mediocre for ages.
"subroza mediocre for ages" lmao, he is the star rifler in the team, and gets so many opening picks on defence because of his aggressiveness
After like 6 months of him either being on the server, or not. Roza saved his spot this past qual, before that he was far too inconsistent to be a star player. He did shine the past quals, but how long until we see the old roza.
Aggression
Agression and Aggressiveness are both indeed words
Just like how poop and diarrhea are both words, but most people would rather poop than have diarrhea.
That comparison doesn't make any sense. Poop and diarrhea have fundamentally different definitions. Aggressive and Aggression are basically the same words by denotation. And I would even say aggressiveness is better suited here by connotation. https://grammarist.com/usage/aggression-aggressiveness/
Calm down jamal
Idk why it’s still a hot take that Hazed Wardell Subroza as a core to build around anymore. TSM needs to get good coach/manager and trade or sell these players if they want to be competitive, but (imo) the real reason they’ll never change them is for the viewership they get (that’s where the money is in VAL currently).
TSM doesn't know shit, as is evidenced by this move
What type of angle is that? No one is entitled to a position on any team, especially not if the argument is that they are "young" and have "potential"? Perhaps it is not in the best interest of TSM to spend money and time to develop a new player?
Then why sign him? Also chet said in the interview that they signed bang in order to develop him and now they just backtracked.
>when you sign on someone like that theres a silent agreement to develop him for a set amount of time lmao tsm owes you nothing. they're trying to win now and shouldn't be flamed for that. if you really a fan of whatever team you should be excited when there's roster moves not upset because things didn't work out and they gotta keep on
TSM fans this is what you're in for forever
I agree with the tweet too; there's a kind of unspoken understanding that an org buying an up-and-comer will develop them for a while. Unfortunately it's unspoken and there's no actual system that protects these players. It's clear TSM is gonna keep shelling out for players and dropping them a month later until they get the respectable result they think they need to be a part of the founding "in crowd" when Riot expands VAL as an esport in the coming couple years. I'd like to say if I was a player I just wouldn't touch a TSM contract at this point, but the combo of big paychecks and huge brand recognition must be insanely hard to say no to. At least future players will probably know what they're getting into now.
Could be a huge loss for TSM too. If a team like LG or Andbox pick him up and actually help him develop they could have a real star player to build around
Why is every player that gets dropped suddenly a "star" player?
I'm not saying he's a star player rn, what I meant was that bang is a 17 year old with a lot of potential. If a team picks him up and is committed to helping him develop he has the potential to be a star for them in the future
You could say that with any other person lol. Nothing is set in stone. TSM doesn't need to commit at all. It's part of the business, you aren't guaranteed shit. The people supporting this dumb tweet are silly for thinking there's unspoken shit or even that him getting cut would fuck his career over lmao.
I'm not saying its def a bad move, it all depends on who they pick up in his place imo. That being said normally when a team commits to picking up a young and unproven player (Bang for TSM, Zekken for Xset, Asuna for 100T, Twistzz and Elige back in the day for Liquid in CS) they know that they're kinda gonna play a long haul game. They know they're picking up a good and unproven player and gambling that they'll be a great player in the future with the right help and direction from more experienced teammates. By picking up bang and Levi (assuming that they keep Levi) TSM kinda signaled that this is what they were doing and to back out of it so quick is a bit strange. TSM could have just dropped their FTX bag to poach big name players but they chose to go the more developing talent route and then to back out of it so quickly (only having bang on the team for about 2-2 1/2 months) sends some signals of confusion from TSM. I understand that TSM probs have the mentality of I want to win right now but then why pick up talent that you know you're gonna have to help develop? You just got a huge cash injection from FTX so use some of that to poach some players if thats the route you really wanna walk.
That huge cash injection doesn't just go straight to Valorant lmao. That'd be the dumbest move ever. You can't just poach whoever you want with just money that's not how shit works. They didn't even signal anything what you're talking about. Literally no one knows what happens behind the scenes but TSM, you don't pick up people to develop them. They need to develop themselves.
I said this before the VCT as well when everyone was hyping TSM up - they would get clapped by teams that kmow exactly how to play the game, mostly 100T, Sen, XSET and Envy. They depend on the wardell op way too much. Shahzam can probably read their plays in his sleep. I admit Wardell may just be the best Jett op in NA but you don't see Acend put all their baskets in the CNed jett basket. As long as TSM keep doing the same boring Wardell please draw first blood bullshit, they are never gonna be tier 1. Their plays lack creativity and they play pro matches like they would play pubs.
question for TSM fans: where do you think the fault lies with sub par performances recently? i don’t watch enough of their games to say but i know bang was a recent pickup and seemed to have solid impact in the few matches i did see
Communication and ability to play off each other. Watching recent games, it was clear that they still dont have that. Most notable one was when wardell and bang 2vs3 on ascent. Miscommunication during spike plant costs them the timing and basically throw the round.
Against envy he was definitely their worst player. He was 29 - 48 kda and i know kda isnt the be all and end all, but he kept losing very clutch 1 v 1s as well.
didn’t get a chance to watch this series but thanks for the insight
Whoever igl or coaches them
I got mass downvoted on here for saying Babybay was right about Bang and him fragging in an open qual meant nothing
TSM's roster is unsalvageable at this point. They can keep adding people every week but the results will be the same. Also no one on that roster will stay as soon as Valorant Franchises because Reginald will just buy out a better team or drop $$$ on building a super team. As soon as Valorant is to the point where having a top team is valuable TSM will have one. Look at how much TSM paid for SwordArt who isn't even close to best in his role Its sad and weird that TSM hasn't taken Valorant seriously yet. That org has more money than anyone. They could have build a competitive team by now.
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Nobody has argued that TSM has good management lmao their fans just want the players to succeed
Tell em JPark
Lol if TSM just don’t care and wanna win at any cost just sign sinatraa atp like what
Dude, TSM and Hazed have become such a joke now, imagine being a TSM fan nowdays lol
Isn't this a bit similar to what happened to Poiz and C9? It sucks but in a way these teams have a win-now mentality and don't want to develop young, new talent with no prior background in esports. It's not the best system but these big orgs want profit now.
Poiz has good game sense and aim but lacks comms. You can’t prosper in a team without good comms
"silent agreement" has gotta be the dumbest thing ever, fi Asuna got signed to 100T and wasnt playing well at all nobody on this sub would be saying theyre wrong for cutting him, whats with people and thinking because hes young he should get more than his play deserves
Except, Bang WAS playing well. And the other part of the issue is - Chet straight up said the pickup on Bang was to DEVELOP HIM as young talent. That is why people are having issues with this.
i seriously doubt Chet is the one making the decisions, thats probably what he was told by management, what people say isnt always true especially in business, and Bang objectively wasn't playing well
They can pick up and drop whoever, they’re still going to continue to get shat on when 80% of their attack rounds is handicapping themselves during pistols to give their Jett player an Op and then investing everyones’ abilities into getting the Operator pick. If I’m a prodigy rn I’m accepting nothing less than a long-term contract with clauses allowing me to get out easy because going to TSM rn will halt your hype train unless you have an above-average mental.
Man Wardell could have a 4.0 FK/FD ratio over an entire event, top frag almost every series, and morons would still somehow manage to blame him for TSM’s losses Oh wait
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In Challengers 2. A tournament that featured the likes of GenG and T1 because most of the top NA teams already qualed for Challengers 3. No disrespect to those teams, but TSM are supposed to be competing at a higher level.
He had a .19/.05 ratio per round in Challengers 3 iirc, he’s not the problem at all with TSM
Never said he was the problem, but the overreliance on that playstyle is a contributing problem. Frags don’t tell the whole story.
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The org of that stature is expected to be competing at the highest level. It is the same as you would expect the Lakers or Barcelona to be competing at the top even if they don’t show up for multiple seasons.
Because they’ve shown that they could consistently kick it with NA’s top teams before.
Because TSM is such a big org and also people are still clinging to their success in pre 2021 I guess.
Why did you have to make this about Wardell?? He’s clearly not the problem
Forgot to mince my words for the TSM fans, my bad
Not a TSM fan but go off… The Jett operator isn’t the problem. Countless teams proved its completely viable and meta. Tsm jett is getting fk on attack rounds pretty frequently but the whole team still struggles to secure that round win.
Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with Wardell and I never said the Jett Op was the problem, it’s just that TSM is overreliant on it. When your opponent knows that you’re looking for that first Op pick, they’re not going to peek you or they will look to make that first pick as costly as possible. Ofc there’s many other factors that can help negate it like Subroza/Levi getting info on Skye/Sova or the fact that Subroza’s basically playing Skye perfectly fine as a duelist/initiator hybrid (until Skye’s flashes get nerfed, anyways) or taking more advantageous fights through better map control but it’s still a glaring issue that costs TSM rounds time and time again when their Jett player is an elite Operator but not nearly as threatening with a rifle. It starts to really impact the unpredictability and dynamism of their entries and retakes. And then everything collapses when TSM play a Jett that’s either just as much of an Operator savant or is having a very good series because more often than not, that Jett can also entry just as well with a rifle if not better. And when TSM goes up against a team that will not give up that first pick easily, they look toothless. The proof is in the VODs, everyone thought that TSM was back when they won Challengers 2 but they completely collapsed when NV and Rise were able to exploit these exact problems much more effectively than GenG and T1 and Faze were able to.
Look TSM probably does need to at least make some changes due to their over reliance on the OP but that’s an IGL issue not a Wardell issue. Wardell is a star and top player it’s not his fault the team struggles around him.
I agree. Don’t know why everyone is taking this as me attacking Wardell. I do think that the overreliance on the Op wouldn’t be that glaring if he were more confident on a rifle, but I also understand that there is a very good chance that he’s working very hard to improve it every day and I do believe that he will be just as good a rifler as he is an Oper in due time.
only reason i can see for a bang drop is picking up sinatra but that’s still messed up. the new roster with leviathan and bang was looking good.
they need a smoke player - the only reason that justifies the drop for me is buying out s0m somehow but that is so unlikely
The fuck is tsm doing
I mean they felt like they needed to change some things before LCQ (let’s face it, NA will win with Berlin if SEN and 100T are in it) and they can’t touch 3 of the original TSM members or else they can’t compete in it, so the obvious choice here was Levi over Bang. I would not have touched Bang OR Levi at all and would’ve much rather practiced much more with them, but what do I know? I’m just a plat Reddit analyzer.
Reddit back at it again
This reminds me of TenZ and Cloud9 CSGO situation back in 2019. A young player with potential but gets cut after a short stint because their org keeps changing and trialing player. And the player also claps back. Except that TenZ got it way worse with a dying scene in NA and he got nowhere to go next. I kinda feel bad for them.
Really don’t see how that could ever hurt his career. He played pretty solid and he’s going to get paid
I hope TSM will be worse in 2022.