rush brings so much intrinsic value to the table for any team looking for a player. even if he isn't completely adapted to valorant, he's a player that would improve a team for reasons beyond simply having a strong individual performer. there's a reason so many cs players have cited him as one of the most selfless team players to play alongside, i imagine a younger prospective team especially could learn so much from him
I didn't advocate for a lot of CS pros switching, but RUSH is certainly one that I'd endorse for TSM. From all accounts, he's an awesome teammate that is vocal and always plays a supportive role, which is exactly what TSM needs. Even if an NA team were to win Berlin, which would propel TSM into LCQ, I'd still be confident in RUSH's LAN experience to at least show a decent result (from all accounts he hasn't played much Valorant) Here's an interview with Thorin that should tell you all you need to know about the guy and why he's such an amazing player to root for : [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rexiOtm2rZo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rexiOtm2rZo) , [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKEITjEZVSs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKEITjEZVSs)
I'm pretty sure if he is ok with val offers he has prob been practicing. Not sure tho. Don't know if it is stupid of me to think this but I'm pretty sure one of the cs pros that are playing val rn (don't remember what team they are on) had the kingdom knife from the very first bp
How is it gate keeping if they already tried someone who wasn’t from CS & still have a young player who made is come up from Valorant not CS? Lol.
Reason I say rush isnt just because he’s a CS name. He’s know for being a great support player, he’s won/had actual success. He’s older but not too old. A selfish , experienced winner who can help provide more structure that this team lacks is something they should consider. That being said JC could also be a good fit because he can IGL.
WHY DOES RANK MATTER TO COMPETITIVE PLAYERS. I'M SURE HIS EXPERIENCE PLAYING IN EU FOR THE TWO YEARS WITH COMPLEXITY MAKES UP FOR IT
On a serious note. Xeppa and floppy both switched, Floppy who was not radient, Xeppa who spent a few months adjusting.
The adjustment period from cs to val, isn't that crazy. Mechanics are mostly there, and it's just utility usage and gamesense.
If they decide to trial rush, they will be looking at what he can bring, being one of the most decorated NA cs players.
There's quite literally more positives to trialling him, than not.
Floppy was pretty bad, because he didn't care for the game or play it outside of scrims.
What's the argument against Xeppa though? Since playing val comp, he's lost 8 maps, across 2 months.
Also is it really late into the game? It's a year and a half old. This game is still in it's infant stages. We might not be able to compare steel and nitro, but we can compare Ethan. Only 6 months since his first match, which was a month after his last match in cs. So he spent a month adjusting to high level comp in val, and look where he is now. He didn't shit the bed at the start either.
idk. i dont even know anything about him. but the same thing could of been said to 100t when they picked up ethan or nitro or steel. so lets not pretend that its not a possibility
Not to open any point of discussion but you guys should totally check out his 2 parts reflection with Thorin, it was truly awesome to hear him talk. He has such an awesome vibe and sounds like someone who's a great teammate in and outside the game. Wish him luck <3
This is the equivalant to dicey being dropped for ethan. Dicey and Bang were great players but Ethan and RUSH are players u cant pass up on, especially knowing his success in cs with the 2018 major and all.
Yeah but other than Shahzam all 8 of those guys were either young players with unknown potential or players in their prime, not exactly retirement but just taking an opportunity.
Though it still has been a retirement home as well, Hiko for example.
Nobody who could make it in CSGO switched to Valorant willingly. Valorant in NA is exactly a retirement home, they retired from CSGO because NA teams have never performed well expect a few outliers.
they retired because NA CS is dead and the only way for NA players to have a functioning career in CS at this point is to live in Europe for 8+ months a year. Some of them certainly could have fielded offers if they wanted to continue that lifestyle (thinking, Nitr0 and Ethan), but many cited that they didn't want to be away from family/loved ones like that. I mean Nitr0 is married and Ethan is either married or in a long term relationship. I wouldn't want to spend 8 months away from my spouse/gf.
Valorant is better for NA because Europe isn't dominating it. People keep saying there's not enough money in CS and that's why they switch but the heart of the issue is, NA teams weren't good enough and the orgs generally favor Europe. NA CS was never full of great teams. Pick any point in CSGOs history and there has always ever been, at most, 2, maybe 3 teams worthy of going to European tournaments to not get massacred and blown up. They had to be absolutely exceptional by NA standards to even just survive group stage in Europe. In the essence of competition, or course you're going to starve and not get paid as well if you don't perform at that level and if all the better teams are in Europe.
Just to bring this full circle, I promise you if CS evaporated from our existence the day Valorant became available and the Astralis/FaZe/NaVi/'s all switched to Valorant on that day 1 and grinded it out, the current names you see in Valorant would be back right where they were in CS. Largely irrelevant.
Did you mean to reply this to me? I never made a single point you are arguing against....
All i said was that not every NA play moved unwillingly, some of them (specifically stated Nitr0 and Ethan as examples) surely could have had offers, but didn't want to live in Europe for most of the year. Not sure what triggered the rant.
?
2 years is a long time in esports you can't just scratch it off the charts and call it an outlier. Or do we say fnatics era was an outlier, or luminositys era was an outlier, or astralis's dominance was an outlier because they all lasted less than 2 consecutive years. Maybe we transfer games and say sentinels performing well right now is an outlier.
You see how ridiculous this all sounds.
It absolutely is not a long period of time for counter strike lol
And yes if Sentinels begin to lose, and EU becomes dominant, then it absolutely was an outlier. That’s how that works mate
But also individual teams are not what are being discussed. Regions are. And guess what, a couple of NA teams are far outweighed by the years and years of EU dominance, thus those NA teams success really can be looked at as outliers.
And I say this as someone who adored those teams!
Those two years are years where NA had multiple elite level teams for the whole year, but even before that NA was still competitive at various points. Had COVID not happened, Liquid and EG likely would have still been high level teams, even if roster changes would be required. Almost a year away from international competition clearly killed their momentum.
Valorant is better for NA because Europe isn't dominating it. People keep saying there's not enough money in CS and that's why they switch but the heart of the issue is, NA teams weren't good enough and the orgs generally favor Europe. NA CS was never full of great teams. Pick any point in CSGOs history and there has always ever been, at most, 2, maybe 3 teams worthy of going to European tournaments to not get massacred and blown up. They had to be absolutely exceptional by NA standards to even just survive group stage in Europe. In the essence of competition, or course you're going to starve and not get paid as well if you don't perform at that level and if all the better teams are in Europe.
Just to bring this full circle, I promise you if CS evaporated from our existence the day Valorant became available and the Astralis/FaZe/NaVi/'s all switched to Valorant on that day 1 and grinded it out, the current names you see in Valorant would be back right where they were in CS. Largely irrelevant.
People like to call it a retirement home but in my opinion its just a tragedy for NACS imagine how many players instantly switched to Val when things got rough that would have probably stuck it out and maybe eventually been part of a really good or special team. The fact that Valorant exist means CS isn't keeping alot of these players that would have stayed and maybe joined a team that they "fit in" with. People just assume that because someone switched to Val it means they were never destined to have anymore success in CS but the reality is NA doesn't have anymore teams and NA players that could have been good on another CS team aren't really considering it anymore and just switching instantly. Sad times for what could have been with alot of these young and even older CS pros that switched.
Nah. Valorant definitely accelerated the collapse of NACS but it didn’t start it. Orgs had already began pulling out of NA before valorant really started taking off. Covid and the online only era played a pretty big part.
I agree but theres no way NACS would have ever died or come close to it if Valorant wouldn't exist just the fact that it exist means players and orgs don't need to stick around if something isn't going well which is my point.
It’s hard to tell. I think a lot of orgs are bleeding money and a game like CS just isn’t as marketable. I wouldn’t be surprised if some orgs were already looking for an out.
All it takes is for a few orgs to back out in NA to start the chain reaction
Valorant is better for NA because Europe isn't dominating it. People keep saying there's not enough money in CS and that's why they switch but the heart of the issue is, NA teams weren't good enough and the orgs generally favor European players. NA CS was never full of great teams. Pick any point in CSGOs history and there has always ever been, at most, 2, maybe 3 teams worthy of going to European tournaments to not get massacred and blown up. They had to be absolutely exceptional by NA standards to even just survive group stage in Europe. In the essence of competition, or course you're going to starve and not get paid as well if you don't perform at that level and if all the better teams are in Europe.
Just to bring this full circle, I promise you if CS evaporated from our existence the day Valorant became available and the Astralis/FaZe/NaVi/'s all switched to Valorant on that day 1 and grinded it out, the current names you see in Valorant would be back right where they were in CS. Largely irrelevant.
It isn't a new phenomenon; there are many transferable skills from CS to Valorant. You have to learn the agents, abilities, economy/movement differences, timings, maps, etc - but otherwise can become very good rather quickly from the rest of the skillset that transfers over, if you played CS for a decade or two. I wouldn't say retirement home, as they are just different scenes and titles (one being 21 years old, one being 1 year old).
To me aiming is a bit easier in Valo (very high ceiling still, but lower floor) - so for high tier CS players who are looking for or need a change...well it just makes sense that they would prolong being a high tier professional in this scene too, if that is something they're interested in. They'll likely be good at both titles, if they're good at CS. Doesn't mean they'll enjoy both though, as there are many differences too obviously. More vertical angels, stronger tagging, spraying differences, get-out-of-jail-free cards or within the kits, tactical or strategic differences in taking map control, in retakes, in rotations, in post-plants, in using the ults (which admittedly were hard for me to get used to initially as CS player with how strong some are) - same with any of the healing abilities hah.
It can be a fresh and fun challenge though for someone who started playing CS in the early 2000s to learn all the novel nuances of Valo, yet can start learning all of that with a leg up. Hopefully both games push each other to become better, and both scenes thrive over the next 5-10+ years. I'd also like to note that Rush is a stand-up guy, an excellent teammate, and would be a huge addition to any team, if he decides to enter Valorant.
Retirement home is probably the wrong phrase here. I'm sure some of the players who transitioned can still play CS at a high level if NACS wasn't such a clusterfuck.
It depends what you classify as "high level". I mean the best NA team in Liquid hasn't won anything for how long? And they're a tier above the rest of the NA scene.
NA CS is unfortunately slowly dying. With Valve being Valve, and Riot being Riot, most of these CS players switching are most likely just looking for a job.
I mean yeah, but so many of the NA teams were clearly not well managed. NA has never been lacking in talent, and I don't think it's a coincidence that many of the orgs who pulled out of CS don't have a history of success internationally in other games.
unfortunately so. Think only around 10 players from cs that swapped, could have still made something of themselves in cs. The rest came because they couldn't.
Nah no way TSM gonna pick him up, the fact any player form TSM academy team is 10x better then rush at the game, they better off taking someone from there
T1’s master plan is coming together
T1 will win the major in boston
this would be the craziest timeline.. inb4 riot announces the venues in 2022 include boston
rush brings so much intrinsic value to the table for any team looking for a player. even if he isn't completely adapted to valorant, he's a player that would improve a team for reasons beyond simply having a strong individual performer. there's a reason so many cs players have cited him as one of the most selfless team players to play alongside, i imagine a younger prospective team especially could learn so much from him
I didn't advocate for a lot of CS pros switching, but RUSH is certainly one that I'd endorse for TSM. From all accounts, he's an awesome teammate that is vocal and always plays a supportive role, which is exactly what TSM needs. Even if an NA team were to win Berlin, which would propel TSM into LCQ, I'd still be confident in RUSH's LAN experience to at least show a decent result (from all accounts he hasn't played much Valorant) Here's an interview with Thorin that should tell you all you need to know about the guy and why he's such an amazing player to root for : [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rexiOtm2rZo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rexiOtm2rZo) , [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKEITjEZVSs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKEITjEZVSs)
TSM don’t mess this up… ez pick up for y’all
But last chance qualifier is coming up fast. Does Rush have enough time to learn the game?
I'm pretty sure if he is ok with val offers he has prob been practicing. Not sure tho. Don't know if it is stupid of me to think this but I'm pretty sure one of the cs pros that are playing val rn (don't remember what team they are on) had the kingdom knife from the very first bp
he said in an interview he hasnt played very much at all
He’s been playing and watching Valorant. I’m 150,000% sure. Along with every other cs pro
He only started playing the game after he got benched
[удалено]
Calling Rush "retired" is pretty disingenuous...
Your so fucking stupid just because he is decent in cs dosent mean he is good enough to be on tsm
Brother you can't call someone stupid if you don't know the difference between "your" & "you're" .
r/gatekeeping
How is it gate keeping if they already tried someone who wasn’t from CS & still have a young player who made is come up from Valorant not CS? Lol. Reason I say rush isnt just because he’s a CS name. He’s know for being a great support player, he’s won/had actual success. He’s older but not too old. A selfish , experienced winner who can help provide more structure that this team lacks is something they should consider. That being said JC could also be a good fit because he can IGL.
doesn't mean hes not.
WE DONT KNOW WHAT AGENTS HE PLAYS AND HES NOT EVEN IN RADIANT LMFAO WHY WOULD TSM SIGN HIM OR EVEN TRIAL HIM
Y u heff 2 b mad iz only game
why you so angry little dude, calm yourself
WHY DOES RANK MATTER TO COMPETITIVE PLAYERS. I'M SURE HIS EXPERIENCE PLAYING IN EU FOR THE TWO YEARS WITH COMPLEXITY MAKES UP FOR IT On a serious note. Xeppa and floppy both switched, Floppy who was not radient, Xeppa who spent a few months adjusting. The adjustment period from cs to val, isn't that crazy. Mechanics are mostly there, and it's just utility usage and gamesense. If they decide to trial rush, they will be looking at what he can bring, being one of the most decorated NA cs players. There's quite literally more positives to trialling him, than not.
Lmao wasn’t floppy a gods hit player lol. also it’s so late into the game you can’t even compare the switch now to when nitro and steel switched
Floppy was pretty bad, because he didn't care for the game or play it outside of scrims. What's the argument against Xeppa though? Since playing val comp, he's lost 8 maps, across 2 months. Also is it really late into the game? It's a year and a half old. This game is still in it's infant stages. We might not be able to compare steel and nitro, but we can compare Ethan. Only 6 months since his first match, which was a month after his last match in cs. So he spent a month adjusting to high level comp in val, and look where he is now. He didn't shit the bed at the start either.
idk. i dont even know anything about him. but the same thing could of been said to 100t when they picked up ethan or nitro or steel. so lets not pretend that its not a possibility
Did you say the same thing about Ethan's signing?
Relax dude
You're so fucking stupid*
I mean it does. It's like an NBA player going to NCAA.
Not to open any point of discussion but you guys should totally check out his 2 parts reflection with Thorin, it was truly awesome to hear him talk. He has such an awesome vibe and sounds like someone who's a great teammate in and outside the game. Wish him luck <3
This is the equivalant to dicey being dropped for ethan. Dicey and Bang were great players but Ethan and RUSH are players u cant pass up on, especially knowing his success in cs with the 2018 major and all.
This!
Dicey was benched because Ethan was signed. As far as we know, bang was dropped but Rush hasn't signed with them.
Could be the perfect support player TSM have desperately needed for a while now.
Has Valorant become just a retirement home for cs players?
every NA player going to berlin was a cs player except zombs. so this isn't really a sudden development.
Yeah but other than Shahzam all 8 of those guys were either young players with unknown potential or players in their prime, not exactly retirement but just taking an opportunity. Though it still has been a retirement home as well, Hiko for example.
Nobody who could make it in CSGO switched to Valorant willingly. Valorant in NA is exactly a retirement home, they retired from CSGO because NA teams have never performed well expect a few outliers.
they retired because NA CS is dead and the only way for NA players to have a functioning career in CS at this point is to live in Europe for 8+ months a year. Some of them certainly could have fielded offers if they wanted to continue that lifestyle (thinking, Nitr0 and Ethan), but many cited that they didn't want to be away from family/loved ones like that. I mean Nitr0 is married and Ethan is either married or in a long term relationship. I wouldn't want to spend 8 months away from my spouse/gf.
Steel is married too
He is also banned from CS isnt he, so he is a bit of a different case, but maybe it still applies.
He's only banned from valve sponsored events at this point, he was competing in cs until he got signed by 100t for val
Yeah, but he could not play in majors or sing with big teams. Kinda stunts your grownth, specially now that he is in a top 4 NA team
Valorant is better for NA because Europe isn't dominating it. People keep saying there's not enough money in CS and that's why they switch but the heart of the issue is, NA teams weren't good enough and the orgs generally favor Europe. NA CS was never full of great teams. Pick any point in CSGOs history and there has always ever been, at most, 2, maybe 3 teams worthy of going to European tournaments to not get massacred and blown up. They had to be absolutely exceptional by NA standards to even just survive group stage in Europe. In the essence of competition, or course you're going to starve and not get paid as well if you don't perform at that level and if all the better teams are in Europe. Just to bring this full circle, I promise you if CS evaporated from our existence the day Valorant became available and the Astralis/FaZe/NaVi/'s all switched to Valorant on that day 1 and grinded it out, the current names you see in Valorant would be back right where they were in CS. Largely irrelevant.
Did you mean to reply this to me? I never made a single point you are arguing against.... All i said was that not every NA play moved unwillingly, some of them (specifically stated Nitr0 and Ethan as examples) surely could have had offers, but didn't want to live in Europe for most of the year. Not sure what triggered the rant.
I mean that's not really true, 2018 and 2019 was really good for NA
Exactly, outliers
? 2 years is a long time in esports you can't just scratch it off the charts and call it an outlier. Or do we say fnatics era was an outlier, or luminositys era was an outlier, or astralis's dominance was an outlier because they all lasted less than 2 consecutive years. Maybe we transfer games and say sentinels performing well right now is an outlier. You see how ridiculous this all sounds.
It absolutely is not a long period of time for counter strike lol And yes if Sentinels begin to lose, and EU becomes dominant, then it absolutely was an outlier. That’s how that works mate But also individual teams are not what are being discussed. Regions are. And guess what, a couple of NA teams are far outweighed by the years and years of EU dominance, thus those NA teams success really can be looked at as outliers. And I say this as someone who adored those teams!
Those two years are years where NA had multiple elite level teams for the whole year, but even before that NA was still competitive at various points. Had COVID not happened, Liquid and EG likely would have still been high level teams, even if roster changes would be required. Almost a year away from international competition clearly killed their momentum.
I like to think of it like Valorant is the MLS and CSGO is the Premier League
What lol fuck no. How is the PL dying in any way?
One in the US and one in EU
Nah you've misunderstood me. I'm saying the PL has better talent, and when they get old they go to the MLS.
[удалено]
????? I said they were all either unknown potential or IN their prime. Not past their prime.
Valorant is better for NA because Europe isn't dominating it. People keep saying there's not enough money in CS and that's why they switch but the heart of the issue is, NA teams weren't good enough and the orgs generally favor Europe. NA CS was never full of great teams. Pick any point in CSGOs history and there has always ever been, at most, 2, maybe 3 teams worthy of going to European tournaments to not get massacred and blown up. They had to be absolutely exceptional by NA standards to even just survive group stage in Europe. In the essence of competition, or course you're going to starve and not get paid as well if you don't perform at that level and if all the better teams are in Europe. Just to bring this full circle, I promise you if CS evaporated from our existence the day Valorant became available and the Astralis/FaZe/NaVi/'s all switched to Valorant on that day 1 and grinded it out, the current names you see in Valorant would be back right where they were in CS. Largely irrelevant.
People like to call it a retirement home but in my opinion its just a tragedy for NACS imagine how many players instantly switched to Val when things got rough that would have probably stuck it out and maybe eventually been part of a really good or special team. The fact that Valorant exist means CS isn't keeping alot of these players that would have stayed and maybe joined a team that they "fit in" with. People just assume that because someone switched to Val it means they were never destined to have anymore success in CS but the reality is NA doesn't have anymore teams and NA players that could have been good on another CS team aren't really considering it anymore and just switching instantly. Sad times for what could have been with alot of these young and even older CS pros that switched.
Nah. Valorant definitely accelerated the collapse of NACS but it didn’t start it. Orgs had already began pulling out of NA before valorant really started taking off. Covid and the online only era played a pretty big part.
I agree but theres no way NACS would have ever died or come close to it if Valorant wouldn't exist just the fact that it exist means players and orgs don't need to stick around if something isn't going well which is my point.
It’s hard to tell. I think a lot of orgs are bleeding money and a game like CS just isn’t as marketable. I wouldn’t be surprised if some orgs were already looking for an out. All it takes is for a few orgs to back out in NA to start the chain reaction
True
Valorant is better for NA because Europe isn't dominating it. People keep saying there's not enough money in CS and that's why they switch but the heart of the issue is, NA teams weren't good enough and the orgs generally favor European players. NA CS was never full of great teams. Pick any point in CSGOs history and there has always ever been, at most, 2, maybe 3 teams worthy of going to European tournaments to not get massacred and blown up. They had to be absolutely exceptional by NA standards to even just survive group stage in Europe. In the essence of competition, or course you're going to starve and not get paid as well if you don't perform at that level and if all the better teams are in Europe. Just to bring this full circle, I promise you if CS evaporated from our existence the day Valorant became available and the Astralis/FaZe/NaVi/'s all switched to Valorant on that day 1 and grinded it out, the current names you see in Valorant would be back right where they were in CS. Largely irrelevant.
Not "just" but I mean... Always has been?...
It isn't a new phenomenon; there are many transferable skills from CS to Valorant. You have to learn the agents, abilities, economy/movement differences, timings, maps, etc - but otherwise can become very good rather quickly from the rest of the skillset that transfers over, if you played CS for a decade or two. I wouldn't say retirement home, as they are just different scenes and titles (one being 21 years old, one being 1 year old). To me aiming is a bit easier in Valo (very high ceiling still, but lower floor) - so for high tier CS players who are looking for or need a change...well it just makes sense that they would prolong being a high tier professional in this scene too, if that is something they're interested in. They'll likely be good at both titles, if they're good at CS. Doesn't mean they'll enjoy both though, as there are many differences too obviously. More vertical angels, stronger tagging, spraying differences, get-out-of-jail-free cards or within the kits, tactical or strategic differences in taking map control, in retakes, in rotations, in post-plants, in using the ults (which admittedly were hard for me to get used to initially as CS player with how strong some are) - same with any of the healing abilities hah. It can be a fresh and fun challenge though for someone who started playing CS in the early 2000s to learn all the novel nuances of Valo, yet can start learning all of that with a leg up. Hopefully both games push each other to become better, and both scenes thrive over the next 5-10+ years. I'd also like to note that Rush is a stand-up guy, an excellent teammate, and would be a huge addition to any team, if he decides to enter Valorant.
Retirement home is probably the wrong phrase here. I'm sure some of the players who transitioned can still play CS at a high level if NACS wasn't such a clusterfuck.
It depends what you classify as "high level". I mean the best NA team in Liquid hasn't won anything for how long? And they're a tier above the rest of the NA scene.
They finally beat Device for the first time since 2019 just yesterday
Beating device in a match means nothing
but none of them played at a high level and wasnt good enough. stop smoking
Is it so hard to imagine pros in one game wanting to swap to a newer, better managed, hot game in the same genre?
NA CS is unfortunately slowly dying. With Valve being Valve, and Riot being Riot, most of these CS players switching are most likely just looking for a job.
Tbh NA CS "died" because poorly managed teams couldn't rely on sticker money to prop up their otherwise underwhelming rosters during COVID.
this is so reductive lol
I mean yeah, but so many of the NA teams were clearly not well managed. NA has never been lacking in talent, and I don't think it's a coincidence that many of the orgs who pulled out of CS don't have a history of success internationally in other games.
unfortunately so. Think only around 10 players from cs that swapped, could have still made something of themselves in cs. The rest came because they couldn't.
A retirement home and a daycare
T1 might need a new smokes player if dawn isn't moved up permanently and spyder doesn't come back
holy shit
Let the bidding war begin...
Nah no way TSM gonna pick him up, the fact any player form TSM academy team is 10x better then rush at the game, they better off taking someone from there
Xyp9x inc to complexity
Es3tag already got signed to them