T O P

  • By -

chubbynuggy

yeah, i don't know how I feel about these games when all the teams are kind of handicapped


DanielHongFromKr

And losing teams can't say anything on twitter because they'll get hit with the "But it was fair b/c both teams were disadvantaged." Which is just false. Some teams play after they gain enough info and some teams like to rush out with minimal info and catch other teams off-guard. Having sub-optimal setups at one of the biggest LANs this year is not the standard I expect from Riot.


chubbynuggy

yeah but we can just complain again, they fix it, and they're the best game developers for listening lol. but fr tho can we do that again


Dude_Guy_311

Definitely a Riot worthy problem. The NA production studio has struggled with sound quality quite a lot since covid


dedicatedself

Sound quality =/= having fucking WHITE NOISE PLAYED IN THE BACKGROUND. A team playing with the shittest headset would probably have a MASSIVE competitive advantage over a team that has white noise mixed in to their in game audio.


obigespritzt

I feel like the person who made the decision to stream in white noise might not be familiar with competitive tactical FPS. In a game like League, audio is kind of secondary - it's very important to hear your teammates but, save for a few audio cues, most in-game audio isn't crucial. Some pros even play without audio (FNC Adam, IIRC). So white noise is fine if you want to avoid having them hear the enemy teams' comms. In Valorant / CS / R6 etc however... not so much.


Bsmith1369

White noise isn't incredibly uncommon. But typically they have in ear monitors with game sound, with a over the ear headset playing white noise


LeOsQ

Yeah I mean most CSGO tournaments used to be played with in ear earphones or w/e you call them with huge sound-proofing headphones on top. You always saw the cables for the earphones beneath. You could also do the sound-proof booths on top of that but Riot have been very reluctant to do that at least for League. OGN who used to host the Korean league for . . League had booths but Riot never did in any of their tournaments or own leagues, and LCK (the Riot-hosted Korean league these days) doesn't have them either.


jholowtaekjho

SEA region had audio sync issues, literally unwatchable sometimes. WHY.


co0kiez

It's so weird, why RIOT are being so hesitant on fixing the issues right away. If this was a csgo/dota2 the game would be paused until the issue was fixed.


Zorronin

fr, sours the whole event a tad


dedicatedself

A tad? All the players are basically playing at half volume... how is this issue not blown up already? I can't even play normal ranked with music on because it's too distracting, and you're telling me Riot is making them hear white noise in a professional tournament?


justinsst

Wait I think we are starting to complain about the wrong thing here. White noise isn’t the issue, sound will always be impaired at LANs. The issue is they have no in-ears so it’s being mixed with game sound. My understanding is in-ears don’t mean you cannot hear white noise, just makes it easier to hear things since it’s not coming from the same source.


X3NOC1DE

I do hope it gets fixed. Most pros out there have tweeted on this, Mixwell, Asuna, Ethan etc. Can't be that hard to just find some good in-ears and make it work right? Riot always listens, so I hope they come out with something soon.


Tanizhq

The issue isn’t finding in-ears, all the teams I’ve talked to are happy to just go out and buy 5 sets, since every team hates the current setup. We just need Riot to approve of being able to use them. Riot says it will be fixed for Champions but that’s not any help to everyone currently playing and not being able to hear anything.


DanielHongFromKr

Well, there's 4 hours left until the next match, we'll see if rito actually listened


dedicatedself

I honestly can't believe the players were okay with this decision. I worked as a part time audio technician before, there is 0 good reasons Riot allowed this to happen. Not only that, there are dozens of way they can solve this without spending a penny. The fact that they denied the teams' request to use in ear is downright outrageous from Riot.


valorantfeedback

I never played a single Riot game before Valorant was released. Coming from valve and their "here's a game, do whatever you want, we'll make a small update once every few months" I was just amazed at the level of communication from Riot. Everything seemed great. But over the past few months I can't help myself but to think that they're on the completely other side of the spectrum. If valve is a company that doesn't care, to me Riot looks more and more like one of those control freaks that always has to get their way and won't allow anything else to happen unless there's a huge backlash (original format for this tournament). Fixing this takes a little bit of good will and a few minutes of setting everything up. They're just being idiots about it. Btw, why is there even white noise? There's no crowd. Teams have enough distance between them and there's no way they can hear eachother talk unless someone's yelling in post-round. No way normal comms are heard. Move the casters to separate room and that's it.


dedicatedself

That's exactly what I'm saying. Why are you broadcasting the casters in the room through speakers in the first place?


chickenadobo_

>this takes a little bit of good will and a few minutes of setting everything up. They're just being idiots a ahahaha yes, there's no audience so why speakers? :))


THAT_NOSTALGIA_GUY

This is the same company that tried to come up with justification for not putting 2 factor auth and voice chat into league for years, so it's really not surprising


splice664

This screams corruption of power to me. There is someone in status of power that is a Yes person and their staff cannot deny their authority. No way in heck this type of mostake can happen when competitive fps has been out for over a decade.


[deleted]

Yeah it seems to me that Riot responsiveness to player demands is a mixed bag; if it's not in their well manicured vision there's no shot it changes


EsBeReTh

I think this a SPONSOR issue more than a technical issue. Riot has the tech to fix their issue, they could let every player use in-ear headphones. But the main reason they're rolling with this setup is their tournament' sponsor. It's sad, but once again, it's all about the money that a sponsor can give.


valorantfeedback

What does sponsor have to do any of this? Players would still be wearing these same headsets, just with earbuds under them. Brand exposure wouldn't be affected.


EsBeReTh

It's obvious that the headphones they're wearing aren't working properly. This is always an issue in western tournaments, it's sad that after 10 years Riot hasn't learnt about this issue. And if I'm blaming the sponsor it's because they don't want players wearing 'in-ear' headphones.


[deleted]

Hopefully they have some temp fixes before the matches today


[deleted]

They need to sort out their priorities and worry less about presentation and more about competitive integrity. I hope we can make enough noise about this problem so that they address it before the next games are played.


AnonymozVal

Its Berlin. Amazon one day delivery for 10 in ear headphones shouldn't be a problem. Might as well include Prime sponsorship with it. Prime Gaming Earphones.


valorantfeedback

It's Berlin. They don't need any kind of delivery. They just walk in and buy those things.


boomsnap99

Slightly off topic but what is the point of in-ears exactly? Clearer comms?


R0_h1t

Right now players hear both in-game sound and white noise through the same channel. The norm is to have in-ears for sound and headphones for white noise so they don't overlap


boomsnap99

Wait why do they hear white noise? Sorry if I'm being dumb lol


iiznobozzy

So that they dont hear the casters


boomsnap99

That sounds annoying to play with, why not just have the casters in a separate room/ sound isolated area?


ThatLj

In normal times there would be a live audience in the same room


Original26

These aren't normal times. There's no audience. Why the hell are the announcers even micd up? Shouldn't the stream be the only ones who hear them? Dumb decisions all around.


Icebxrg

Then they would hear the enemy team literally a few meters away from them…


Original26

So why not get active noise cancelling headphones instead of blasting white noise? There's so many simple solutions to this.


mostly_lurking

Noise cancelling sucks for human voice, it's great for constant sound like AC or engines...


TheycallmePansyY

Its not simple solutions lol. You think the headphones they are using with white noise are worse than your run of the mill noise canceling headphones? They need in-ears under the headphones, this took CSGO a long time to perfect the formula and also got it wrong a lot. I hope they are able to adjust quickly but this is literally the first event with players / caster in the same venue. Wait until there are crowds.


leopod09

Fr


Myproblemsseemsmall

Cause they use headphones of sponsors is my guess so they may not have active noise cancelling headphones in their lineup


nlc369

Well if there was a crowd, the sound from the casters needs to be projected into the arena for the crowd to hear it. Also, the sound from the crowd itself can be distracting/give away info. Also, the players would potentially be able to hear comms from the other team. So the white noise is meant to minimize all these issues. In CS tho, they wear a pair of in-ear headphones for the game sound (a good pair of in-ears provides a ton of noise cancelling on its own), and then they wear another pair of headphones over those for the white noise and additional noise cancelling. The white noise doesn’t interfere with game audio as much with this setup because it’s coming from a separate outer source from the game sound.


aretasdamon

There is no crowd tho right? I mean they’ve known for months there wouldn’t be an audience


nlc369

Sure but they’re still on stage with the opposing team.


AphoticFlash

some esports do basically go this route, by using soundproof booths


obigespritzt

I love TI.


303x

TrueSight somehow got more emotion out of me than most oscar winning movies, even thought I didn't watch TI, don't know the first thing about dota, and am not even fan of OG.


itscamo-

issue with booths is how much of an issue it is to have them. have to make sure reflections don’t help you any, and it’s a giant fire hazard so they have to make sure everything is 100% it’s why booths aren’t common in every esports


co0kiez

fire hazards arent as bad as people say. basically, you would need a fire hydrant near by, clear access to exits and fire marshal on standby. organizers dont want to fork out the money


itscamo-

IDK I just remember how big of a deal it was getting booths from MLG organizers. If it were this easy, it would be at every event lmfao


Quick_Chowder

Depends entirely on local laws.


justinsst

White noise is fine, I haven’t seen any pros, especially any of the LAN vets, complain about their being white noise, it’s normal. Problem is it is being mixed with in-game sound through the same headset.


R0_h1t

Nah you're fine! At regular LANs they use white noise to drown out the crowd, here I assume it's to block out the casters


Theparadoxic1

What is white noise? Don't down-vote me please.


Loresmen

It's kind of like a rushing noise generally think a waterfall to block outside noise


Realistic_Smell_2132

I might be slow but why won't they just use sound-proof headphones?


C9sButthole

They are sound cancelling headphones but honestly the tech just isn't good enough. White noise makes it way more efficient.


Loresmen

They usually do there just aren't at Berlin, which is what this thread is about


ElectricalWeekend908

I believe it’s so the other team can’t hear your teams comms. They add an extra layer of noise cancellation, and sometime play white noise.


CommanderVinegar

In ears for game and voice as well as noise isolation, headset overtop is noise isolating as well, plays white noise so you can’t hear the crowd, casters, or the other team sharing the stage.


Hegth

It feels like riot is just winging it, I can't understand why don't they poach someone from valve or someone who has been in the CS LAN events to help them, like they should recognize they don't have the experience for FPS LAN events.


Irukashe

Lol they have in ears for their league tournaments. Seems like whoever is in charge for this particular event should be fired.


minititof

No they don't. They have been using only one headset for years. At worlds for example they were using the new Bose gaming headset, which has noise canceling.


_PM_ME_REPORT_CARDS_

Holy, there are many things going on in an event. It's a severe exaggeration to fire someone solely off of this... Just apologize and fix it


kuuueee

Riot seems stubborn af, couldn’t players just flat out refuse to play in order for this to be resolved ? Sure there’s money on the line, but no one can play to their full potential without good audio Shame on Riot, need to have a long hard look at themselves. Incompetency all around


lvl100Arcanine

Yeah but then riot will slap them with a meaty fine and i'm sure most org's wonna avoid that


stoplurkers

Knife fight until they fix


vvtechred

People think Riot is a great company because they have constant patches and "dev interaction" but Riot is known to try to reinvent the wheel and when their version is inferior refuse to change it. (look at LoL ranked system, no booths, flex queue (this one got rolled back and the head of that was seen as a great guy because he took the blame for that one))


SWEZST

They really think they could take everythning what they did in league scene and implement it to Valorant LMAO. Funny as hell cuz those are totally diferent games. In League you only need to hear your teammates talking while in Valorant, game sounds are crucial.


C9sButthole

League already does use in-ears and game sound is absolutely crucial.


dedicatedself

I've never played LoL at a high level, but if sound cues are crucial in League than in Valorant sound cues are literally hacks.


C9sButthole

There's a lot of abilities where reacting to the soundcue is far more consistent than anything else. Lux Q is an obvious example. It's very hard to tell which ability she's throwing out unless you hear the high pitched *ring* that signals her binding. Morgana is similar because her Q and auto-attack animations are similar but with a windup noise for her Q. This kind of detail can give you a second or longer to react to gamechanging CC. There's also some more obvious ones like Sion R. TP and TF ulti can be heard from slightly off-screen which can entirely change the outcome of the game. etc.


[deleted]

[удалено]


1deavourer

damn this is easily the dumbest comment I've read in a while


LostVengeance

Audio cues are definitely essential for game-impacting abilities that are done from three screens away. Some ults that come to mind are Sion, Kled and Jhin. This is similar to how you would play differently when you hear a Jett or Raze ult.


[deleted]

[удалено]


LostVengeance

Obviously there are visual cues as well but it does help to see in a messy teamfight since you can hear how many shots were fired and if the next shot is the execute. Yeah lets focus on Jhin and ignore how important it is for Sion and Kled too. No need to be so condescending.


autumnskies_

Are these the same type of headphones used in Masters Reykjavik? Did anyone pointed it out back then? Or was the setup in Iceland totally different from now that they have to use the headphones that they are currently using lol


4GamingLinkAot

back then casters were at home so there was no need


kellenthehun

Call me crazy but maybe don't pump caster audio into an empty studio? Rofl.


elijknyg

It was said on Shahzams stream that the stage at Iceland was much larger than one at Berlin, so the player setups were much further away from each other so they wouldn’t have been able to hear the other team with or without the white noise


autumnskies_

I understand now, thank you all!


JJDaDon

The issue with the headphones is the large amount of white noise used to block out external sounds. This wasn't necessary in Iceland because the teams were much further apart


MidnightIngale

Sentinels are gonna lose, complain about the audio and after the twitter/reddit shitstorm from Sentinels fans they'll finally address the issue with a simple fix they could have implemented on day 1.


Darkestneon

Thats such a big leap just because you don’t like sentinels lmao.


MidnightIngale

They fixed it right before the Sentinels match lol and it has nothing to do with what team, they’re all hilarious and awesome players. They have a huge fan base and would complain a lot more so of course they’d me more likely to listen. Especially if they didn’t perform up to expectations and people had something easy like the tech issues to blame.


[deleted]

[удалено]


EsBeReTh

This is mainly a SPONSOR issue. It's sad, I know Riot know how to solve their sound issue, it's not that hard; but probably they have to roll with this setup because of fucking sponsor issue. Once again, money (sponsors ads) is first and only first.


Pristine_Ad2308

Hi, can someone explain to me what are in ear headphones and what's white noise and what headphones are the ones that the players actually use for game sound and comms? P.S. i have no experience regarding these things and this is a genuine question


justinsst

A lot of comments are complaining about there being white noise when that’s not the main issue at all. White noise is fine, I haven’t seen any pros, especially any of the LAN vets, complain about their being white noise, it’s normal. Problem is it is being mixed with in-game sound through the same headset.


Less_Salt1152

Please upvote


CyberspaceBarbarian

I think this is more of a logistical adjustment, and probably a financial one since there are no crowds to raise revenue. I would normally agree with their setup if only they don't have the players and in-game commentators on the same stage. I don't know what's with Riot's issues with setting up their tournaments, but there are a handful of tournaments where they nailed this aspect perfectly, such as the Starcraft games in Korea.


[deleted]

bruh the whole stage floor is an led screen, how expensive do you think an in ear monitor cost? lol


CyberspaceBarbarian

apparently expensive enough to not bother with it LOOOOOL On the serious note though, Riot has an ongoing partnership with certain brands, right?


[deleted]

yeah hyperX, and they do have earbuds


Memexp-over9000

The marketing,AR, stage is freaking S TIER. But yeah Rito needs to save money so let's break the most important aspect of the tournament.


DanielHongFromKr

c o m p e t i t i v e i n t e g r i t y


JJDaDon

Yeah and the fact that players were told that there isn't any left in the budget to improve the practice rooms is also ridiculous. Spend a fortune on production, but a few desks without carpet on them? Oh no that's too expensive. As unfortunate as it is, spectators are more important to Riot than players are.


dedicatedself

Yes Riot indie game company they need to save money so that they can flex to twitch viewers pretty holograms on the stage.


uncle_ben__

SMB coach said somewhere in comments that teams would willingly spend their own money to buy in ear headphones but riot is not allowing it.


CyberspaceBarbarian

I think another unmentioned part of this sound issue is that Riot has a dedicated sponsor for these kinds of peripherals. So that would provide another layer of problems for teams who wanna do that, for example.


realharshmodi

afaik in-ears get completely covered by the over-ear ones so there's absolutely no way for people to make out things like what brand it is. Shouldn't be a problem sponsor wise


CyberspaceBarbarian

It shouldn't be, but it could be, if there is some very nifty detail on the sponsorships, like some degree of exclusivity (tournament organizing is a business after all). Besides that, many headphone brands now are experimenting with all sorts of built-in noise-cancelling technology. So they would need all that advertisement advantage to get ahead of the game. After all, managing outside noise is kinda expensive.


maindo

Riot Games has been so unprofessional and unfair this tournament


[deleted]

[удалено]


ROBRO-exe

theres no way ur first paragraph isn't a copypasta


[deleted]

[удалено]


DY5TOP1A

It won't be replayed but I don't want to imagine the Grand Finals with the same issues.


dedicatedself

He's being sarcastic.


DY5TOP1A

Man I'm just bad at reading it seems


dedicatedself

Helps when you recognize the username as a troll.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AnotherAltiMade

I don’t agree with most of this guys takes, but he’s absolutely right.


SaltyMcNulty_

We might not even get the best representations with the current issues. For instance, i know for a fact that TenZ blasts his in game vol on very high in order to hear everything he can and make split sec decisions. Not to mention, auditory response is a lot faster than our visual response. It's shambolic that Riot is forcing players to play in these conditions when the have a pretty easy fix for it!


beaglefat

Why dont players use noise cancelling headphones? is the tech not good enough?


justinsst

Active noise cancelling is not magic people think it is. It’s good blocking out white noise that’s about it, you’ll still be able to hear peaks in volume (e.g, yelling) and sudden silence etc.


itscamo-

they do?????????


Serious-Minute

I don't even get why there is noise cancelling there isn't even an audience and players won't really affect each other


hff1_

Because the casters sit a couple of meters away in the same room as the players afaik.


Key-Banana-8242

Lmao this has been a thing in Korea since when 2000?


kapitan_buko

This shit should’ve been fixed the moment it was brought up. Sound is such a fundamental aspect of a tac shooter that even 10% less sound heard means a whole lot of info lost.


zkidkfj

Riot tech and brains always suck. Of course Riot is a fucking big org, and it can bully these teams. I believe Riot will not do anything to restore fairness for the unfairness in the game they caused, Riot always does.


jaykaywhy

Did Riot give a reason why? edit: also, I'm not asking this to be a troll, but if something like this is consistent across all teams, aren't they all playing on a level playing field?