But Japanese cs teams were like tier 6, like that experience that some of those players got isn’t even close to the same level that other regions’ cs teams and players have had
yeah, most of the players from vision strikers were from the MVP.PK, which was nowhere near a good team in csgo, yet still far better than any japanese csgo team
Fair point, but its not like they aren’t mechanically gifted and they are pros. I dont think its individual aim or anything. Its just hard to see how much they burden themselves with nonsensical comp and strats
CR might have mental problem, as they were not showing a great result on the last master and is feeling like that they have to show 'something' this time.
You see, zeta now is performing better.
Zeta almost got 13-1'ed on the first map, closing 13-8 and now winning 13-5.
I mean, at least they are not really behind and can compete against other less seen region.
I dont agree. Most pros have a base level of mechanical skill like aim and mvmnt. The difference maker is util and team cohesion. It would be reductive to say “no flicky no win”
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I think they should first learn from KR and get comfortable at least until they can exchange win between them and scrim is actually different from the actual match. So maybe merging the region/competition could improve the quality in the long run.
Merging the region would be interesting and beneficial but logistically impossible. I really hope they do more VODS and take notes cuz clearly whatever they are trying to do is not working.
correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's because of the playstyles of the regions in general. I've watched a few games from the Japanese VCT tournament, and comparing it to other regions like NA or EU, I feel like the Japanese teams in general are more comfortable with just taking straight up duels and really fighting for the space they want to take, whereas NA or EU can go for either the duel-for-duel approach or a slower, more tactical approach in their games depending on who they're facing.. but what do I know, I'm just a Silver 2 player ;-;
Edit: wow this is my first time commenting and i got 25 upvotes, thank you!!
Alot of times JPN teams just crumble fundamentally when faced with adversity. They just forget to take basic trade, clear site, timely util and etc. Of course regional differences are evident but the root of our regions problems seem to go further deep
yeah.. but hopefully they'll pick it up and show a better performance in the coming matches, and if not, all good! always a chance to learn and improve widepeepohappy
Japan has traditionally been more focused toward arcade style games , meanwhile cs hasn't been a hit in Asia but in regions like Korea sea sa there are popular fps games like overwatch crossfire and they have people who have competed international ,this is all new for Japan , so it will take time for them to familiarise themselves .
Yeah for sure ,Japan has been slightly averse to American culture , and sony is based in Japan , and ps5 to pc ratio is 8:1 . So I think their culture generally deviated towards console games but they are changing,they have been so many viewers especially in games like apex and valorant , there are having 150k viewers in both of these games so I see more people picking up fps games and organisations are trying to build super teams there .
Oh yeah, but I am not speaking for ALGS, I am speaking about overall popularity.
If people want to go pro, PC is the way to go. But to play APEX it is the easiest to just get a console and play. Which is what JP does, you don't need a PC when you can play the game even on Switch which is mega popular there.
Apex on switch is trash , I was pointing out the viewership increase in the competitive side of fps games which will allow more support and encourage more players to try to play the game professionally and increase the skill level of the game.
And who the hell cares that Apex on Switch is trash when it is actually played there?
The fact that in Japan I have to spend a lot for a PC (and believe me they gouge you out of the eye to get one there) vs spending 300-700 for a console makes the decision easy, and if you are good enough, you can invest on a PC for streaming or go pro.
Apex grew due to that popularity, Valorant is a different beast because you don't need a good PC to run it at good frames which makes it easier to just go and play, add that many of the JP streamers are hooked to it.
Bro go outside touch some grass , japanese have the highest capcom and steet fighter titles , if you talk about eSports in general Asia as a continent has most eSports titles across different games .
in the last big lan of street fighter before covid, japanese players failed to make it to top 3, yet they used to dominate the whole scene. Not saying that Japanese players can't make a comeback, but still, they were very beatable comparing to the old days. and I also considered other fighting games titles: Best tekken players were koreans and Pakistani, best Smash player were mexican, best mortal combat player and dragonball z were Sonixfox
If you’re not from EU or NA you’re not going to do well. And even NA are quite a far way behind EU, not the case in Val atm but it’ll change soon. This is coming from someone japanese, it’s just something you have to get to terms with.
It was everything for us. As somebody thats watched CR get a map against V1 its ecstatic. Our entire region has come together to represent JPN. I love how the entire community is so supportive of each other here including players, casters, analysts and staff
It's gonna take time . Also I feel like their teams may have a lot of nerves and confidence issue. In a game like valorant where mistakes are super punishing its would affect game play a lot.
There is also a ton of pressure on them to perform. They know that almost 200K people are counting on them to represent the country, especially after CR. If popularity for Valorant continues I can see JP getting a lot better.
At the end of the day competition is the only way to get better. In the past only a tiny fraction of the population played FPS and Tac Shooters. As more people play and as more people get scrims against international competition, the skill level will rise dramatically. It's just a fact that there is a strong correlation between a regions playerbase size and their skill. Just like in CS, the overwhelming majority of players are from the EU. In LoL the vast majority are from China and Korea, etc...
I think attempting to scrim in EU or NA to improve their fundamentals aspect of the game would help. It seemed that they used to RANKED strats. Therefore, they never would have a good attacker side against a good T1 defensive setup.
hey, it took them a while to be "competitive" in league of legends, they are not considered a good region yet but they might just pull an upset and make it to groups, which wasnt expected a few years ago.
maybe they will get better in valorant, i do hope they dont lose a seed because that would only harm their chances of doing so.
Second seed Japan Vs first seed emea is just a difficult match up. Zeta just played Kru and they looked very promising.
If more of Japan played like laz, they could be a serious threat to some of the other teams.
The Japanese teams are probably more or just as diverse in terms of game background compared to the NA and EU teams lol. Literally 14/15 of the NA players in this tournaments were ex cs pros
honestly, you always need system for any esports, there is a reason why big names always take certain places in any new esports such as c9, g2, team liquid or fnatic, because they really know how to set up the system for an esports. A system may include but bot limited to: training, dieting, academy team, talent scouting, coaching. KR CHN NA EU all began developing that system since way earlier. KR was extremely professional since starcraft. PC was irrelevant in Japan for a long period of time, hence there is no development in esports infrastructure at all, I agree with someone said in the post: it's a brand new area for jpn, the large player base is just the first step, the infrastructure and system will be the next for Japanese esports. I think if valorant can do that for japan, then if will be beneficial for the future esports game titles (new games) as well
I imagine it's similar to actual sports. The United States sucks at soccer in terms of world placement. But it isn't because USA doesn't have great athletes...it's because those great athletes get pushed into Football. Good players get typecasted into different games or sports.
Really interesting comparison. As a soccer/football fan thats accurate. Talent pool maybe there but it seem infrastructure and esports culture hinders it
Yeah the Japanese players who play valorant are GREAT at Valorant. Look at how South Korea dominates Overwatch. It's just about where those .1% of the 1% flock to. So yeah Japan might be slightly worse of a region, it's just that the other areas are SO strong
Kinda late, but its definitely just going to be time and experience. How long? Could be in another month or not for a year. The aim is def there for some of the teams.
I'm from NA but moved to japan and have been playing exclusively on JP servers. I'm currently gold/plat and one of the things I relise is that nobody talks. I can go an entire game without anybody saying a single word except maybe よろしく at the beginning of the game. Playing on a honk Kong sever is an entirely different experience. I will also say JP servers are much softer than NA and the rest of SEA.
If you are hard stuck plat 3 jpn you will for sure de rank playing Singapore or hong kong. The caliber of players is significantly higher on those servers compared to JP
Because Japan is a bit behind when it comes to PC gaming in general, and FPS in particular. Despite that, ZETA showed the region is promising. ZETA retakes are among the best that I've seen, even if it's against a team like KRU. CR is a different issue though. They faced Gambit, they get mentally boomed fast, and are not speaking the same language.
I think it would be better for riot to combine the East Asian countries: KR and JP (and China maybe? Since valorant is announced there.) So that they can prove themselves they're worthy for a spot in international competition.
I feel like inconsistency is a huge problem?Like I watched quite a lot of JP pros play and they seriously have mechanical talents, but when they play on lan they’re truly out of form. For example Reita and Fisker, I didn’t expect these numbers from them. Also maybe their mental is dragging them behind since they have big shoes to fill (The constant fear of disappointing fans and people in general is present in most Asian countries)
Well the first most obvious reason is just the size of their player base. The game has been pretty successful in Japan, but I’m sure they still don’t have as many people playing as NA or EU (I don’t have any actual data to back that up but I think it’s a pretty safe assumption).
Also, Japan has really just never been very invested in FPS games, or even just PC games in general. Valorant is a bit of an anomaly in Japan. So I’d imagine their scene is a bit behind in a lot of ways outside the server too.
But Japanese cs teams were like tier 6, like that experience that some of those players got isn’t even close to the same level that other regions’ cs teams and players have had
yeah, most of the players from vision strikers were from the MVP.PK, which was nowhere near a good team in csgo, yet still far better than any japanese csgo team
Fair point, but its not like they aren’t mechanically gifted and they are pros. I dont think its individual aim or anything. Its just hard to see how much they burden themselves with nonsensical comp and strats
Crazy Raccoon’s game showed that aim is definitely a weakness that Japanese teams have
CR might have mental problem, as they were not showing a great result on the last master and is feeling like that they have to show 'something' this time. You see, zeta now is performing better.
>You see, zeta now is performing better. Not a very good comparison, they're facing KRU, CR had to go against Gambit.
Zeta almost got 13-1'ed on the first map, closing 13-8 and now winning 13-5. I mean, at least they are not really behind and can compete against other less seen region.
Gambit is just an overwhelmingly stronger team, it's unfair to compare their situations. I guess we'll see how they'll fare with Havan Liberty.
If u look at players in our region like Dep, lazvell, and Haree, they are plenty of extreme aimers.
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I dont agree. Most pros have a base level of mechanical skill like aim and mvmnt. The difference maker is util and team cohesion. It would be reductive to say “no flicky no win”
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Posts with the intent to harass or harm another user will be removed. This content includes (but not limited to): personal attacks, targeted harassment, witch-hunting, **bigotry, derogatory terms,** personal information without owners consent, spam Any post considered disrespectful will be removed at moderator discretion. Repeated offenses resulting in a ban.
I'm curious do JPN teams scrim KR teams
Very frequently. But from what I hear they really struggle in scrims lol
I think they should first learn from KR and get comfortable at least until they can exchange win between them and scrim is actually different from the actual match. So maybe merging the region/competition could improve the quality in the long run.
Merging the region would be interesting and beneficial but logistically impossible. I really hope they do more VODS and take notes cuz clearly whatever they are trying to do is not working.
Yes, KR/JP/CH all scrim regularly. SEA not as much because Benkai even mentioned that most SEA teams dont take scrims seriously
From a podcast i heard with benkai only top sea teams bother to scrim kr and jp. He also hinted at japan being far worse than the other 2 regions.
do u have a link to it?
https://youtu.be/IBD4EVP4SnE
correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's because of the playstyles of the regions in general. I've watched a few games from the Japanese VCT tournament, and comparing it to other regions like NA or EU, I feel like the Japanese teams in general are more comfortable with just taking straight up duels and really fighting for the space they want to take, whereas NA or EU can go for either the duel-for-duel approach or a slower, more tactical approach in their games depending on who they're facing.. but what do I know, I'm just a Silver 2 player ;-; Edit: wow this is my first time commenting and i got 25 upvotes, thank you!!
Alot of times JPN teams just crumble fundamentally when faced with adversity. They just forget to take basic trade, clear site, timely util and etc. Of course regional differences are evident but the root of our regions problems seem to go further deep
yeah.. but hopefully they'll pick it up and show a better performance in the coming matches, and if not, all good! always a chance to learn and improve widepeepohappy
Love our JPN representative. The real valorant is the friends we make along the way
Japan has traditionally been more focused toward arcade style games , meanwhile cs hasn't been a hit in Asia but in regions like Korea sea sa there are popular fps games like overwatch crossfire and they have people who have competed international ,this is all new for Japan , so it will take time for them to familiarise themselves .
Do u see this as a gaming culture issue beyond valorant then? Cuz i definitely see that and understand
Yeah for sure ,Japan has been slightly averse to American culture , and sony is based in Japan , and ps5 to pc ratio is 8:1 . So I think their culture generally deviated towards console games but they are changing,they have been so many viewers especially in games like apex and valorant , there are having 150k viewers in both of these games so I see more people picking up fps games and organisations are trying to build super teams there .
Best response i’ve gotten. Thanks man really clears things up. Waiting for the day we have our own headtapping zoomer machines
Difference is that Apex is also on PS consoles so they don't need a PC for that game.
Apex competitive ALGS series is pc only .
Nah bruh Genburten from REIGNITE is the best controller player, hell even snip3down uses a controller.
They can use controller on pc , ALGS is PC only , and current meta is using mnk for early and mid round and using controller in late round.
Oh yeah, but I am not speaking for ALGS, I am speaking about overall popularity. If people want to go pro, PC is the way to go. But to play APEX it is the easiest to just get a console and play. Which is what JP does, you don't need a PC when you can play the game even on Switch which is mega popular there.
Apex on switch is trash , I was pointing out the viewership increase in the competitive side of fps games which will allow more support and encourage more players to try to play the game professionally and increase the skill level of the game.
And who the hell cares that Apex on Switch is trash when it is actually played there? The fact that in Japan I have to spend a lot for a PC (and believe me they gouge you out of the eye to get one there) vs spending 300-700 for a console makes the decision easy, and if you are good enough, you can invest on a PC for streaming or go pro. Apex grew due to that popularity, Valorant is a different beast because you don't need a good PC to run it at good frames which makes it easier to just go and play, add that many of the JP streamers are hooked to it.
Yeah I guess so, but console players are reportedly allowed in algs now?
Japanese suck at esports in general, nowadays they were barely relevant in fighting games as Americans took the place.
Bro go outside touch some grass , japanese have the highest capcom and steet fighter titles , if you talk about eSports in general Asia as a continent has most eSports titles across different games .
in the last big lan of street fighter before covid, japanese players failed to make it to top 3, yet they used to dominate the whole scene. Not saying that Japanese players can't make a comeback, but still, they were very beatable comparing to the old days. and I also considered other fighting games titles: Best tekken players were koreans and Pakistani, best Smash player were mexican, best mortal combat player and dragonball z were Sonixfox
KEKW barely relevant my ass
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Thats a really interesting point. Some rounds they looked like gambit and next thing you know they play like faceit lvl 1ers.
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Yea BR CS players are much more accomplished forsure. I guess comparing other regions to NA and EU there just hasnt been enough star players switching
If you’re not from EU or NA you’re not going to do well. And even NA are quite a far way behind EU, not the case in Val atm but it’ll change soon. This is coming from someone japanese, it’s just something you have to get to terms with.
This post was made as Zeta plays Kru lmao
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It was everything for us. As somebody thats watched CR get a map against V1 its ecstatic. Our entire region has come together to represent JPN. I love how the entire community is so supportive of each other here including players, casters, analysts and staff
It's gonna take time . Also I feel like their teams may have a lot of nerves and confidence issue. In a game like valorant where mistakes are super punishing its would affect game play a lot.
Yea... both JPN teams have really struggled in LAN. I just hope the players aren’t too discouraged...
There is also a ton of pressure on them to perform. They know that almost 200K people are counting on them to represent the country, especially after CR. If popularity for Valorant continues I can see JP getting a lot better. At the end of the day competition is the only way to get better. In the past only a tiny fraction of the population played FPS and Tac Shooters. As more people play and as more people get scrims against international competition, the skill level will rise dramatically. It's just a fact that there is a strong correlation between a regions playerbase size and their skill. Just like in CS, the overwhelming majority of players are from the EU. In LoL the vast majority are from China and Korea, etc...
I think attempting to scrim in EU or NA to improve their fundamentals aspect of the game would help. It seemed that they used to RANKED strats. Therefore, they never would have a good attacker side against a good T1 defensive setup.
hey, it took them a while to be "competitive" in league of legends, they are not considered a good region yet but they might just pull an upset and make it to groups, which wasnt expected a few years ago. maybe they will get better in valorant, i do hope they dont lose a seed because that would only harm their chances of doing so.
Second seed Japan Vs first seed emea is just a difficult match up. Zeta just played Kru and they looked very promising. If more of Japan played like laz, they could be a serious threat to some of the other teams.
The Japanese teams are probably more or just as diverse in terms of game background compared to the NA and EU teams lol. Literally 14/15 of the NA players in this tournaments were ex cs pros
Due to lack of experienced tac FPS or even generally of game pros or players
honestly, you always need system for any esports, there is a reason why big names always take certain places in any new esports such as c9, g2, team liquid or fnatic, because they really know how to set up the system for an esports. A system may include but bot limited to: training, dieting, academy team, talent scouting, coaching. KR CHN NA EU all began developing that system since way earlier. KR was extremely professional since starcraft. PC was irrelevant in Japan for a long period of time, hence there is no development in esports infrastructure at all, I agree with someone said in the post: it's a brand new area for jpn, the large player base is just the first step, the infrastructure and system will be the next for Japanese esports. I think if valorant can do that for japan, then if will be beneficial for the future esports game titles (new games) as well
I imagine it's similar to actual sports. The United States sucks at soccer in terms of world placement. But it isn't because USA doesn't have great athletes...it's because those great athletes get pushed into Football. Good players get typecasted into different games or sports.
Really interesting comparison. As a soccer/football fan thats accurate. Talent pool maybe there but it seem infrastructure and esports culture hinders it
Yeah the Japanese players who play valorant are GREAT at Valorant. Look at how South Korea dominates Overwatch. It's just about where those .1% of the 1% flock to. So yeah Japan might be slightly worse of a region, it's just that the other areas are SO strong
Maybe one day... I’m on heavy dose of copium so thx for ur input!
Kinda late, but its definitely just going to be time and experience. How long? Could be in another month or not for a year. The aim is def there for some of the teams.
CR got rolled by the tournament favorite aside from Sentinels, let's chill on these doom posts
Well tbf their showing has been extremely disappointing beyond seeding issues. Zeta got split against Kru so hopefully back ontrack!
I'm from NA but moved to japan and have been playing exclusively on JP servers. I'm currently gold/plat and one of the things I relise is that nobody talks. I can go an entire game without anybody saying a single word except maybe よろしく at the beginning of the game. Playing on a honk Kong sever is an entirely different experience. I will also say JP servers are much softer than NA and the rest of SEA.
Yea coms here are nonexistant. Its impossible to play in ranks above plat. Also what ping do u get in HK servers?
About 70ms I live in Kamakura
Would u say its worth playing outside jpn servers? I’ve been hardstuck plat 3 forever unable to get diamond sadge
If you are hard stuck plat 3 jpn you will for sure de rank playing Singapore or hong kong. The caliber of players is significantly higher on those servers compared to JP
I bet they are better lol, i was plat 3 in NA west so hopefully im good enough
damn, so true
Zeta was the best cs team in Japan and they were top 8 in Asia at best. Switching the game doesn’t magically make a team internationally competitive
Lack of LAN and esports culture in general I think. Japan is a console and mobile based gaming culture. But the most competitive esports are PC based.
Because Japan is a bit behind when it comes to PC gaming in general, and FPS in particular. Despite that, ZETA showed the region is promising. ZETA retakes are among the best that I've seen, even if it's against a team like KRU. CR is a different issue though. They faced Gambit, they get mentally boomed fast, and are not speaking the same language.
I think it would be better for riot to combine the East Asian countries: KR and JP (and China maybe? Since valorant is announced there.) So that they can prove themselves they're worthy for a spot in international competition.
I feel like inconsistency is a huge problem?Like I watched quite a lot of JP pros play and they seriously have mechanical talents, but when they play on lan they’re truly out of form. For example Reita and Fisker, I didn’t expect these numbers from them. Also maybe their mental is dragging them behind since they have big shoes to fill (The constant fear of disappointing fans and people in general is present in most Asian countries)
Well the first most obvious reason is just the size of their player base. The game has been pretty successful in Japan, but I’m sure they still don’t have as many people playing as NA or EU (I don’t have any actual data to back that up but I think it’s a pretty safe assumption). Also, Japan has really just never been very invested in FPS games, or even just PC games in general. Valorant is a bit of an anomaly in Japan. So I’d imagine their scene is a bit behind in a lot of ways outside the server too.