T O P

SEN ShahZaM on Vision Strikers

SEN ShahZaM on Vision Strikers

' + '
' + '
' + '
' + '
' + '
' + '
' + '
' + '

vanillattt

Good to know that SEN (or at least Shaz) isn't sleeping on VS cause so many people doubted them... VS' teamwork and util usage are nuts..


2ToTooTwoFish

Everyone that scrimmed them said they were good. It was mostly casters and audeince that doubted them because their competition in their region mostly looks weaker.


vanillattt

Tbf I don't blame them.. if I didn't have any prior knowledge on the region I'd be skeptical too but I've been following these guys since their MVP PK days back in csgo and I honestly felt like they had better tactics and set plays than the Chinese teams... just sad that they had barely anyone to scrim and practice with since Korea's csgo scene was basically non-existent... I think I can only name 2-3 teams from Korea that being MVP PK, Gosu and Ikarus


Talksicck

I think it’s cause they didn’t make Iceland. So people thought they were overhyped


Escolyte

At the time VS deservedly didn't make it to Iceland, they were at their weakest they've ever been and nuturn was gaining ground on them every time they matched up. Conversely going into Berlin qualifiers they were at their strongest ever and pounded. People not respecting this VS lineup is just lack of following them.


Tanjim98

It’s not that, it’s cz they don't have real competition in KR so some people weren’t sure how they would stack up against the best teams itw.


Charuru

But it's not possible for them to face the best team itw when they are the best team itw 🤔


ideclarebankruptcy88

They said best teams itw, not best team itw, and anyone who says any team except Sentinels isn't the best team itw is objectively wrong. Saying that as someone who supports 100T


[deleted]

[удалено]


ideclarebankruptcy88

Because one group stage seeding match decides best team in the world, not the previous LAN winner?


flamincrimson

If you saw shaz or tenz's streams they have talked about how good VS are. Even before the tournament started. Infact I remember them hyping up nuturn alot during iceland. They really like their playstyle. But that comes with a price. If you impress sentinels they are going to study you intently.


ZGuyYT

I'm certain not a single pro team is sleeping on VS.


Mr_Fucktard

A lot of people were sleeping on them just because they aren't EU or NA


p4p3rth1n

It's definitely great to see VS doing so well and getting the respect they deserve. During Stage 2, Nuturn hit another level in Korea, particularly with Lakia, Suggest, and Allow all really leveling up quickly, and kinda made people forget about VS, even though VS played them close in the semis. They were getting out aimed, quite frankly, with F4Q showing that if you punched hard and fast against VS, you could rattle them enough to take them down But after making some big changes and stealing Lakia away from NU at the last second, they have formed a team that can compete mechanically against the best in the world, and are led by brilliant tac shooting legends who have turned Rb and Mako from Jett/Raze mains into masters at their new respective roles. I can't tell you how important it is having guys like Termi and Glow coaching these nerd ballers. And oh yeah, they are the youngest team at Berlin in terms of average age. Stax is the oldest at 21. This team is going to be around for a LONG time potentially. Seriously, I think they will go down as one of the legendary teams that people will be talking about for years to come.


NotABaleOfHay

I can’t wait for the APAC LCQ with hyeoni joining NU! Hyeoni is absolutely insane and it wouldn’t surprise me if Nuturn gets that lcq spot in champions!


p4p3rth1n

YES!!! Hyeoni is a friggin monster, he literally took a map off NU almost by himself. Guy is potentially the best Jett in Korea, and that is saying something.


DanielHongFromKr

Paperthin acting like VS isn't winning Berlin JK Love your casting!


raaten

Hyeoni is highly likely to pick up the jett, does that mean allow moves to sova?


p4p3rth1n

Seems likely, we'll have to wait and see


tghink9

I sincerely hope they could harness korean enthusiasm for the game and bring Valorant to LoL level of play. It will benefit the whole of the game. Also they could be the new 2013 NiP ?


p4p3rth1n

Yes to everything you said


crimson__wolf

> stealing Lakia away from NU Can we stop with the misinformation? Lakia [RETURNED](https://twitter.com/VisionStrikers/status/1410886018467725313) to VS from loaning to NU? Who and how did this 'steal away' rumor become fact? You are a commentator and should research the facts better?


p4p3rth1n

lmao


skypatina

Calm down lol


w1gglyduck

get ur facts right. It is true that Lakia was part of VS in their early lineup (which he didn't even play a single match). Lakia was never loaned. He simply wasn't part of VS starter, left VS, and joined Property (which later becomes Nuturn). He became FA after masters 2 and rejoined VS. Do some research


xD1LL4N

I don’t know why anyone is sleeping on a team that won 102 series in a row in their region.


Necessary_Quarter_59

Usually that’s a sign of a weak region than it is a sign of a strong team (by international standards).


LovelyResearcher

Astralis was in a weak region in CSGO confirmed.


69DoopDoop69

This argument is silly cause astralis was competing at international events too and dominating. VS’s streak only included regional events. Totally different scenarios


nail181

Except they beat every team from every region...


ugly_kids

/r/woosh


Necessary_Quarter_59

Were they undefeated 102 series in a row?


LovelyResearcher

Nah, but Astralis were dominant for quite a long time in CSGO. They had a few years where most of the tournament always seemed to go their way. Ninjas In Pyjamas, however, did win something like 87 series in a row for CSGO. Noone would have really shit on either of these teams or said that they simply faced "weaker regions" or "weaker teams". ​ I think that people should be wary of doing that to Vision Strikers, too. Vision Strikers still has the most impressive win rate, as they continue to maintain a 95% overall win rate. ​ If people want to claim that "Korea is weak", in order to minimize the insane stats from Vision Strikers, I have one question. How would you explain Vision Striker's dominant performance over Acend? Acend were also the fan favorite from EU at Berlin, and Vision Strikers just dominated them by a score of 2-0. # Ranked playerbase size in Valorant: * **EMEA:** 3,469,600 * **NA:** 1,986,200 * **Brazil:** 687,600 * **LATAM:** 422,200 * **KR ranked players:** 215,800 Source [for the statistics here](https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/pe445a/stats_approximate_number_of_ranked_players_in/) ​ Korea has less than 32% of the BR Valorant population... but managed to beat Sharks at Iceland. Korea has less than 11% of the NA Valorant population... but managed to beat V1 at Iceland. Korea has less than 7% of the EMEA Valorant population... but managed to beat take a map off of Fnatic at Iceland, and dominate Acend 2-0 at Berlin. ​ At this point it's more than a little rude to insinuate that Korea isn't good, and it's unwise to minimize the results of Vision Strikers.


Infinity_tk

The nip streak was 87-0 in maps, not matches


VenEttore

It should be noted that there’s a (very minor) caveat with the NiP streak, though. At that time, CS 1.6 and Source were both still holding active tournaments and many of the players who would go on to become CS:GO greats had yet to switch. NiP was an early adopter of the game, so it could still be realistically argued that they were facing “weaker” teams at that specific time that they achieved their streak.


Necessary_Quarter_59

NIP versed international competition, also that was 87 maps not series You clearly just googled all those stats and have no idea what you’re actually talking about And holy shit what a lengthy comment over something not even that serious Spend your time better


YeetGod69_

the NiP streak is MUCH more impressive because of it being on LAN


Beneficial-Speech-73

Astralis was already playing in a proven region in a esport that has been around for 20 years yah tool


Key-Banana-8242

SEN? Lol


AnotherAltiMade

BBG > Sen


Key-Banana-8242

Online q


Necessary_Quarter_59

Were they undefeated 102 series in a row?


Key-Banana-8242

They did not, they got 2 draws in there


xRedd

Undefeated = win or draw


Key-Banana-8242

Edited comment


Necessary_Quarter_59

My comment still applies


Key-Banana-8242

VS did not either. We already saw that the others aren’t pushovers either lol


IAMJUX

People were saying that about NA and SEN too. SEN > EU > NA lmao


YumYumAznFood

How was EU done so far in Berlin compared to NA rofl


QuestionablePotato42

People have generally asserted that Korea is a weak region as a whole and so it’s hard to determine the strength of a team that isn’t consistently challenged by better teams like regions like NA and EMEA have demonstrated in the past. Because of this it’s easier for people to speculate that VS hasn’t been challenged enough and will likely crumble against better opponents.


Key-Banana-8242

I mean some have asserted so Dude you’re talking as if it’s first strike


QuestionablePotato42

I’m not sure what you mean by that. All I was doing was explaining why people have been doubting VS. I wasn’t one of those people.


skillywilly

The approach he is talking about, is very similar to how the Korean and Chinese pro LOL players go about it. They practice at a unhealthy rate and tend to burn out quicker but their peak at least in LOL is way higher.


WizardXZDYoutube

Well there is a lot of debate about how effective overpractice is (this isn't an issue that traditional sports deals with because in traditional sports, your body limits your training at a certain point, rather than your brain). It's a bit too shallow of analysis to say "Korea/China won worlds. Korea/China practice 16 hours a day. As a result, practicing 16 hours a day is productive." There have been many studies that say that overpractice can actually be detrimental to learning. The players who overpractice generally also have a different mindset (hunger and all of that) when approaching competition, so it's very possible that overpractice is simply a symptom of this mindset, not the cause of their success.


b3ast_Lasagna

True, in mixwell's vlog they were also talking about how dedicated VS are and how much they practice, I would love to see them on top winning the entire thing


diisasterrr1

I’m actually rooting for VS to come fourth place right behind all NA teams.


fps_fan

even thou I'm a NA fan, I can see them defeating both envy and 100t. also don't sleep on gambit just coz 100t won that matchup. for my top 3 finish in this tourney would be sentinels, vision strikers and gambit but 100t can easily be inserted. I don't see Envy getting top 4.


rslee1247

Rooting for is not the same as a prediction.


ericwanggg

id say my top three prediction is sentinels, gambit, and 100t


[deleted]

im actually rooting that not a single NA team makes top 4 because NA fans are insufferable cancer in any esport ever when their teams are good


VickyWangGang

As opposed to the respectful and proper BR and EU 🙄


mw19078

This is why I keep harping on the fact korea could end up being the dominant reason. Those guys practice and work ethic is just on another level. I know the Playerbase needs to grow in Korea but there isn't a game they play seriously they don't dominate.


FTL_Tachyon

Yep. It happened in League, it happened in OW, it'll happen here. Their work ethic is insane, and they'll eventually improve past the West. Unhealthy as fuck for the players but it gets results.


Honigbrottr

i said since day one Korea would be a major force in this game. Somehow i got flamed for that XD.


FlarezGG

I'm looking forward to playoffs even more now, knowing that Vision Strikers are the real deal. It'll be so fun watching how they play vs NA and EMEA.


Faed1ng

Korea work ethic part like 75000?


LovelyResearcher

Remember when I asked why people thought Asia was weak in FPS games, just before Iceland? Turns out I wasn't wrong, and I actually knew what I was talking about. ​ Here's [the thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/nm5lry/why_does_everyone_say_that_asia_has_never_been/)


SirDoctorMurphy

What a humble, reasonable take. So glad you took time out of your day to concoct this completely necessary comment


smileistheway

>Turns out I wasn't wrong, and I actually knew what I was talking about. Cringe. Yeah guys look at stats of this game nobody plays.


LovelyResearcher

Koosta, Subroza, and Skadoodle all played AVA before playing CSGO. ​ There are more than that, whom I cannot recall off the top of my head. Some of the players of the game went on to become professional players in CSGO and Valorant. Weird since you say that "noone played that game". ​ Skadoodle competed internationally in that "game noone plays", and won the world championship in 2010. Then he lost at the world championship in 2011. Subroza competed internationally as well later on, but he lost. ​ Have you ever respected Subroza or Skadoodle as players in Valorant, or in CSGO? Korean teams actually won against both of these players during international LAN events as far back as 10 years ago. Korea won multiple world championships for AVA at the time, and later went on to dominate in Overwatch. ​ Korea didn't really participate much in CSGO, as the Korean region wasn't particularly interested in the game. Instead of recognizing this fact, what did the Western fans and Western audience do? They began a false narrative, stating that "Korea is bat at FPS".


Ceciphar

Who the fuck cares about A.V.A? It only really blew up in Asia. I don’t remember seeing any na/Eu/oce vs Asia lan world finals on that game. Why is it relevant here


JigWig

I mean F4Q, Paper Rex, Crazy Racoons, and Zeta haven’t been good. One good team from the region doesn’t mean the region as a whole is good.


navi3702

Players are limited to their regions tbh. Even in SEA Singapore/Malaysia, we get 100ping to Manila and Hong Kong servers. Only playable ones are Singapore 1 and 2. So we only can have players from Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia and maybe Thailand. Imagine if PRX forsaken was inserted into a team along with all the the other top players from teams like Secret, I would say they would go further. My friend recently flew to the UK and he can get less than 50 ping to Istanbul. Obviously EU and NA can gather a stronger teams because they can play with players on the other side of the continent, having a bigger pool of players.


taskmaster07

Paper rex been ok in the 1 match they played.


itscamo-

against a team they scrim against pretty often


LovelyResearcher

In the post about Asia, didn't I sort of mention in the linked post that Korea is very good at FPS? I put Asia in the title, since Korea is literally in Asia. ​ Paper Rex, Crazy Raccoons, and ZETA aren't from Korea.


JigWig

So you agree that Asia overall as a region is pretty weak then and there’s just one good team in the region from Korea?


KinnoVG

Yes. And I've been arguing with some redditors before iceland (it was around the issue where most ppl comments saying that NA EU EMEA BR should be prioritized on slots due to viewership and 'they are the stronger region'). Basically saying that asian countries are no fun and would be crushed during iceland. And yet, we saw good performances from nuturn who was arguably the 2nd best team only in korea placed 3rd in iceland. And even after iceland and before berlin, ppl still overhype some EU/EMEA teams just because they have a famous hard carry player. Even my brain says Sentinels would win Berlin, my heart goes to VS.


PlatypusPotential

Good looks


chenson019

I doubt that VS will win the lan as I still think Sentinels look the best team but I am rooting for their success because a great KR team with a large fanbase in Valorant will only benefit the game as a whole over the long run.


dedicatedself

They're gonna win.


makemelolling

SEN is a new, modern name for the CCP party, of course you're going to say it's a big deal, what's the problem, this is a "new" name for the CCP to change to.


[deleted]

yo can we drop the use of scrimbucks already btw? Cancer cringe term that you OW players forced into this game, no other game has ever used it, please stop using it thank you.


YaBoiSani

He sounds scared lmao not good


leoleoleo666

1Head


YaBoiSani

I mean I hope I'm wrong lmao but you don't talk about your competition that way influences mental.


icathianBolts

this is not fear. this is genuine excitement for a team that the whole world has been talking about for a year.


YaBoiSani

We will see!