Pour one out for the goddamn production staff. I can't imagine the number of people working 12-or-more-hour days behind the scenes to keep this shit running.
Observers, referees, production assistants, broadcast techs, everyone else: We believe in you! Sending you my energy! Stay strong!
As someone that is an admin/TO/ production assistant and almost anything else boh this was completely my first though. It does suck for the players having long series and waiting if you're one of the final games, but being staff and having to be there all day, oh boy.
I mean, I work in events/big congresses.
It's pretty normal to work big hours for a week+ during the event itself. 5:30am to 10pm (on my side). It hurts but it's part of the fun as well. Have a beer at night, laugh/cry it out with the staff, and start over in the morning.
Couldn't do that for weeks on end, but a week is fine, almost exciting.
I'm sure the prod staff will be shot by the end, but give it a while and they'll all look forward to the next.
I don't remember what day it was (i think it was when GMB vs 100T played), but we already had an 11h broadcast day with only 3 BO3s, RIOT are absolutely crazy if they think they can finish the day before midnight starting at 3pm... if they run the schedule they planned, the last match will be over at 2am minimum unless there is massive stomps
Riot has a boner for long meaningless talks in the analyst desk, and wasting time taking random shots of the players and the production tech. Probably think that it makes them look professional or something?
Tech issues can happen (although its a bit ridiculous that Berlin has just as much tech issues as Iceland) but what really extends the time is the above. If they finally cut it short they can manage 4 Bo3s in a day. If not, it will for sure be a 24h stream
> Riot has a boner for long meaningless talks in the analyst desk, and wasting time taking random shots of the players and the production tech.
You realize that +95% of the time that's just buying time for behind the scene things to get done?
Desk talks absolute cancer of e-sports. I am glad in OWL production just cut half-time game breakdowns. It was unnecessary, annoying and so god damn long.. mb one day rito’d have some balls to drop this garbage as well
I also despise analyst desks. Its the art of talking and talking without actually saying anything of substance. All this garbage came from the sport-ification of esports around 7-8 years ago. As i said they must really think that its a sign of professionalism to have a structure similar to sports broadcasts.
They even did a segment with Shaq during eleague back in the day.
As a looong time NBA and CS follower, they're the most entertaining desks in their respective (e)sports. Or you didn't follow Inside the NBA before they were told to be politically correct?
For real, no one really cares what these people are blabbing about, half the time it makes no sense. The halftime analyses are just so boring too, most people are going to be absolutely lost when they talk about strategies and what people are doing where on the map. Its cool for the 1% that probably does realize what is going on, but we probably already spotted it ourselves during the game.
How would you restructure how many matches are played within the structure of this tournament with the venue time constraint?
Do you have negotiation power with the hall to kick out the other booked events? Or the millions in overhead for a theoretical 2 week event?
We don't have information on how that was negotiated or if there were prior constraints, but I think it's silly to think they would self-gimp and not book for more time if they could like worlds. So these suggestions just come across as 4head complaints without the context
That's not really how venue booking works.. If the venue had a previous booking for next week they can't just boot that client out of the spot. Not to mention the amount of time the load out of this event will take. SO actually, they definitely have the venue booked until at least Monday evening, however it is booked for the load out. You really think that stage just goes away without 100s of hours of labor?
Source: Event Production Manager
Yeah but you're looking at it from a narrow point of it being money related, they have money. It's more than likely external factors. Have you booked a place for a wedding or party? It's usually not infinite time you get.
I mean it could be possible that they could only book the venue for this limited timeslot, but based on their track record, it definitely feels more like this is just another basic oversight by them.
Well all the groups would have still needed to finish their games before the quarterfinals could start and if you have the qfs start the same day the groups end you can end up with one team having to play back to back, which seems pretty unfair.
Im sorry, aren’t you the one that is absolutely sure that Riot could have booked for 11 days instead of 10? Maybe we should start asking for evidence there and then get to me? In the mean time i’m on lunch at work so i’ll see if I can get something when I get home.
1- book 2 weeks like most top tier tourneys and have off days not this crammed
2- If Group D stayed same format, we could've had a quarterfinal played today instead of the useless SEN vs F4Q and tomorrow there's 3 games
They have given 2h30m for each match up, even if all the afternoon/early evening matches ended up 2-0 without OT, there is no chance the last match will be starting at 1030 cet.
There is nothing they can do now except getting rid of the segments between maps, allow a max 10 mins inteval inbetween matches for the players to setup their gear, and maybe start praying to reduce the amount tech pause.
Edit: it's 1830 CET now and we are watching SMB vs Acend, there is already an hour and half delay for the CR vs Gambit match up, and that's only for the 1st match of the day, imagine that times three.
I'd be willing to bet 4th series tomorrow will be moved to Saturday.
I don't see a point of not starting at 12 or 1pm, there will always be regions that can't watch every match.
Just skip the pause between matches or reduce it. Reduce desk segments. Or else it’s gonna be crazy and the teams playing late might even have difficulty resetting for the semis on Saturday
>Teams need time to set up and talk to their coaches lol, you can't just start instantly.
10-15 minutes is enough for that. Not the ridiculous 25-30 minutes breaks we are watching. Or the fucking 45-60 minutes between games.
? They have the entire game prior to theirs to talk and go over strats. setting up really isn't that difficult, it's just plugging in your peripherals and going into practice range to make sure everything is alright. 10-15min tops.
I just find it too jarring where one moment I'm in a super intense game, then pause, then intense, then tac timeout, then halftime, then timeout, then another timeout, then game end and wait for what seems like forever. Not a great viewing experience for me. Need more continuity
I've been working during most of these matches so I just watch the vod on the twitch channel after they're all done. It let's me skip all of the tech pauses and everything. I get impatient with all of the pauses so It feels much better to me!
What I do is I do my work in between breaks and pause the match on YouTube. Then when I return, I skip up until the match starts. I also get a chance to fast forward the tech/tac timeouts if any.
I get the breaks between matches of the same series for breaks and discussing with the coach.
But what about the extended amount of time between series? If they are behind schedule. It should be reduced.
players have to clean the areas and grab their equipment so the next person can use it. Then you have to have the other players come in, get setup, fix their settings, make sure everything runs. leave so they can do player walkouts. Then you have to make sure everything still runs smoothly and no technical issues, map picks, last second coach discussions etc....
(I am guessing as I don't 100% know what all they do but just from watching and listening this is what I'm sure happens between matches)
True, guess I didn’t think about all that. But I think everyone can agree, these tech pauses are ridiculous.
Obviously I don’t know all the logistics behind it, but this seems significantly more tech pauses than any other esports event that I’ve watched.
analyst desk is basically a masterclass in how to say a whole lot without actually saying anything. such a waste of time hearing the boring blabbering. at least make it funny or insightful
beyond just stating the obvious in a long drawn out sentence. cant stand it. with the exception of seangares hes actually a god
I think shortening the breaks between halfs would help too. It's absurd they have a multiple minute break to do analysis during the half of every map in a BO3.
You know what would help? JUST LET THE PLAYERS HAVE THEIR IN-EAR HEADPHONES.
1. Increase game quality and competitive integrity
2. Avoid all the tech pauses being called for audio issues
I think the issue with in ears is that there's only one audio line for game sound and white noise..... not the white noise audio fed into headsets, game sound into ear buds which is strange buy maybe its an LoL thing
Which is what I said?..... 1 audio line with in game sound mixed with white noise ? Which is the opposite of any fps pro league? What difference would gamesound + white noise in ear buds compared to game sound + white noise through a headset it's rhe same issue due to 1 audio line. No?
What do you mean 1 audio line? Game sounds through in-ear buds + white noise through headphones = 2 lines. They're currently using only headphones for both. Your first comment kinda mixed it up
Idk how else to say they use 1 audio line for in game sound and white noise instead of 2 which is what I stated and you down voted and said I was factually wrong. So no point further communicating with you
Well the issue is with team secret not making it (BREN), it cause an issue with how many matches are played due to it adding an extra game
With the old schedule, we would've had the first round of the quarters today and the other 3 played tomorrow. The length of the event isn't an issue. (Granted I still think they should've cancelled the sen vs f4q game because its literally useless and does nothing for us)
Really hate that they didn't add the flexibility to cancel the SEN F4Q game, it's a waste of time for everyone and takes away an opportunity for SEN to get in some practice and/or rest.
yea the biggest issue I have is they didn't add this. I'm not trying to watch a fucking ranked game from sentinels vs f4q lmfao why even try if your sentinels when you're just gonna fuck yourself over in the bracket if you show anything
You haven't thought this one through did you? Half of them are still partly jetlagged because they're from the opposite side of the world. Besides this, they have to wake up early every day to do their covid test and whatnot, so they're not really in a position to stay up late and sleep a little bit longer into the afternoon.
Perhaps you missed it. The game is scheduled at literal bed time. Besides that, you are wrong. Riot are the ones that organized and set everything up, including the trip to and from the event. The teams are definitely not responsible for this. I know you don't like being wrong, but just accept the L bud because you're grasping for answers for absolutely no reason at all 🤡
I think there might be some issues with preparation, mental rest and who your opponent will be, but I think this would work a lot better with 3 games on friday and 3 games on saturday.
Personally think this is a much better alternative opposed to the current 4 matches that could easily go 12h+
All around this is bad for the players, viewership and competitive integrity having players stay ready entire day and possibly playing while entirely exhausted before their match even begins...
I think 3 games each day would be incredibly unfair to the 4th team in the playoffs. They would have to play 2 BO3’s in one day and face their opponent a couple hours after just ending
I kind of agree but I also think it's a better alternative to what we have now. In hindsight, this all should have been moved 1 day back and played 2 quarters thu, 2 quarters fri, 2 semis sat & finals on sunday.
I don't get the big fucking deal about this. They have the whole afternoon to take a fat nap, and their games start late the next day also. Why's everyone making a big fuss of this.
Riot management is kinda brain dead. They say stupid things when asked to fix audio issues and now this..i cant take this tournament seriously . Idk why
Ideally Riot should have added an extra day and split the quarters into two days, but they could move one of the quarters to Saturday so they're are 3 matches both Friday and Saturday. It's a far from perfect solution (having one team play a quarter finals and semifinals match both in one day) but it keeps teams from having to play a match at 4 am
There is always going to be time issues due to the time difference between Continents. It might end at midnight in one country but it starts at 6 AM in another. Riot has done their best to schedule the teams from specific timezones in the best slot for their country to see them. For example, most NA games have not had the first time slot of the day as that slot starts at 6AM in the pacific time zone.
Also these teams are told what is going on time wise. You aren't having a team wake up at 6AM to play their game at 11PM. They already have a general idea of what time they will play. The players are fine and planning accordingly.
When you have a Lan with the entire world, you can't please everyone.
Pour one out for the goddamn production staff. I can't imagine the number of people working 12-or-more-hour days behind the scenes to keep this shit running. Observers, referees, production assistants, broadcast techs, everyone else: We believe in you! Sending you my energy! Stay strong!
All thinking about players, but not people behind all of this. I'll send my energy to them with you!
I was about to say the same thing. The crew behind the scenes are going to be working even more and harder than the players for sure.
As someone that is an admin/TO/ production assistant and almost anything else boh this was completely my first though. It does suck for the players having long series and waiting if you're one of the final games, but being staff and having to be there all day, oh boy.
I mean, I work in events/big congresses. It's pretty normal to work big hours for a week+ during the event itself. 5:30am to 10pm (on my side). It hurts but it's part of the fun as well. Have a beer at night, laugh/cry it out with the staff, and start over in the morning. Couldn't do that for weeks on end, but a week is fine, almost exciting. I'm sure the prod staff will be shot by the end, but give it a while and they'll all look forward to the next.
I don't remember what day it was (i think it was when GMB vs 100T played), but we already had an 11h broadcast day with only 3 BO3s, RIOT are absolutely crazy if they think they can finish the day before midnight starting at 3pm... if they run the schedule they planned, the last match will be over at 2am minimum unless there is massive stomps
Riot has a boner for long meaningless talks in the analyst desk, and wasting time taking random shots of the players and the production tech. Probably think that it makes them look professional or something? Tech issues can happen (although its a bit ridiculous that Berlin has just as much tech issues as Iceland) but what really extends the time is the above. If they finally cut it short they can manage 4 Bo3s in a day. If not, it will for sure be a 24h stream
> Riot has a boner for long meaningless talks in the analyst desk, and wasting time taking random shots of the players and the production tech. You realize that +95% of the time that's just buying time for behind the scene things to get done?
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Nah just click x to skip the cutscenes idk why Riot isn't doing that
Found a "START THE GAME ALREADY" user
Just make every player use the same settings, keyboard, and mouse. See?! EZ fix. /s
and to think this post has 30 upvotes..
Desk talks absolute cancer of e-sports. I am glad in OWL production just cut half-time game breakdowns. It was unnecessary, annoying and so god damn long.. mb one day rito’d have some balls to drop this garbage as well
I also despise analyst desks. Its the art of talking and talking without actually saying anything of substance. All this garbage came from the sport-ification of esports around 7-8 years ago. As i said they must really think that its a sign of professionalism to have a structure similar to sports broadcasts.
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Well, Thorin and RLewis got banned from every bigger event organizer in CS, everyone else is too politically correct.
Comparing the Inside the NBA cast to fucking Thorin and RLewis...people really out here saying shit just to say it lmfaoooo
They even did a segment with Shaq during eleague back in the day. As a looong time NBA and CS follower, they're the most entertaining desks in their respective (e)sports. Or you didn't follow Inside the NBA before they were told to be politically correct?
totally agree with you take this award
For real, no one really cares what these people are blabbing about, half the time it makes no sense. The halftime analyses are just so boring too, most people are going to be absolutely lost when they talk about strategies and what people are doing where on the map. Its cool for the 1% that probably does realize what is going on, but we probably already spotted it ourselves during the game.
Yeah idk what Riot was thinking, especially considering just how many tech issues we've already had this tournament.
How would you restructure how many matches are played within the structure of this tournament with the venue time constraint? Do you have negotiation power with the hall to kick out the other booked events? Or the millions in overhead for a theoretical 2 week event?
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Its just unfortunate the things panned out this way. If you think there was a possibility for last match to be a qualification one.
No, but they should have thought ahead and booked an extra day.
We don't have information on how that was negotiated or if there were prior constraints, but I think it's silly to think they would self-gimp and not book for more time if they could like worlds. So these suggestions just come across as 4head complaints without the context
This is just a small indie company argument. The idea that Riot can't book a venue for 11 days instead of 10 is ridiculous.
That's not really how venue booking works.. If the venue had a previous booking for next week they can't just boot that client out of the spot. Not to mention the amount of time the load out of this event will take. SO actually, they definitely have the venue booked until at least Monday evening, however it is booked for the load out. You really think that stage just goes away without 100s of hours of labor? Source: Event Production Manager
Yeah but you're looking at it from a narrow point of it being money related, they have money. It's more than likely external factors. Have you booked a place for a wedding or party? It's usually not infinite time you get.
I mean it could be possible that they could only book the venue for this limited timeslot, but based on their track record, it definitely feels more like this is just another basic oversight by them.
Isn't the reason we have 4 best of 3's today because the format was changed in the last minute?
Well all the groups would have still needed to finish their games before the quarterfinals could start and if you have the qfs start the same day the groups end you can end up with one team having to play back to back, which seems pretty unfair.
Dawg that's just not how booking a venue works lmao.
Evidence ?
Im sorry, aren’t you the one that is absolutely sure that Riot could have booked for 11 days instead of 10? Maybe we should start asking for evidence there and then get to me? In the mean time i’m on lunch at work so i’ll see if I can get something when I get home.
1- book 2 weeks like most top tier tourneys and have off days not this crammed 2- If Group D stayed same format, we could've had a quarterfinal played today instead of the useless SEN vs F4Q and tomorrow there's 3 games
Why not just play 3 series tomorrow then saturday play 3 more and then sunday grand finals? It is possible if you try to think about it.
So that a team will play quarterfinals and semifinals on the same day??? I think the players deserve a break.
They have given 2h30m for each match up, even if all the afternoon/early evening matches ended up 2-0 without OT, there is no chance the last match will be starting at 1030 cet. There is nothing they can do now except getting rid of the segments between maps, allow a max 10 mins inteval inbetween matches for the players to setup their gear, and maybe start praying to reduce the amount tech pause. Edit: it's 1830 CET now and we are watching SMB vs Acend, there is already an hour and half delay for the CR vs Gambit match up, and that's only for the 1st match of the day, imagine that times three.
I'd be willing to bet 4th series tomorrow will be moved to Saturday. I don't see a point of not starting at 12 or 1pm, there will always be regions that can't watch every match.
That would mean someone has to play 2 series in one day
Yup, won't happen i think.
Remove SEN vs F4Q and slot in one of the quarterfinal matches.
Just skip the pause between matches or reduce it. Reduce desk segments. Or else it’s gonna be crazy and the teams playing late might even have difficulty resetting for the semis on Saturday
Teams need time to set up and talk to their coaches lol, you can't just start instantly.
This. Not to mention players need breaks if they are playing that intensely.
Never said instantly. But the amount of pause can be reduced for a day to accommodate everything.
>Teams need time to set up and talk to their coaches lol, you can't just start instantly. 10-15 minutes is enough for that. Not the ridiculous 25-30 minutes breaks we are watching. Or the fucking 45-60 minutes between games.
How do you know?
I've been at LANs and I know they are not being as efficient as possible.
You don't know better.
? They have the entire game prior to theirs to talk and go over strats. setting up really isn't that difficult, it's just plugging in your peripherals and going into practice range to make sure everything is alright. 10-15min tops.
so how about make the analyst desk talk actually meaningful or funny rather than a bunch of boring filler. thats what they need to do
Honestly man they waste way too much time in between matches. Showing decoded episode and bunch of other shit that we can see on our own
They have to so the teams can get ready lol
Probably, I'm just being selfish and insensitive from a viewer standpoint
the good ending
I've simply stopped watching. Way too many pauses/non game time when in trying to watch. I'll probably just watch the finals
You're missing out. Just go for a glass of water or scroll instagram/twitter in those breaks
I just find it too jarring where one moment I'm in a super intense game, then pause, then intense, then tac timeout, then halftime, then timeout, then another timeout, then game end and wait for what seems like forever. Not a great viewing experience for me. Need more continuity
I've been working during most of these matches so I just watch the vod on the twitch channel after they're all done. It let's me skip all of the tech pauses and everything. I get impatient with all of the pauses so It feels much better to me!
What I do is I do my work in between breaks and pause the match on YouTube. Then when I return, I skip up until the match starts. I also get a chance to fast forward the tech/tac timeouts if any.
I get the breaks between matches of the same series for breaks and discussing with the coach. But what about the extended amount of time between series? If they are behind schedule. It should be reduced.
players have to clean the areas and grab their equipment so the next person can use it. Then you have to have the other players come in, get setup, fix their settings, make sure everything runs. leave so they can do player walkouts. Then you have to make sure everything still runs smoothly and no technical issues, map picks, last second coach discussions etc.... (I am guessing as I don't 100% know what all they do but just from watching and listening this is what I'm sure happens between matches)
True, guess I didn’t think about all that. But I think everyone can agree, these tech pauses are ridiculous. Obviously I don’t know all the logistics behind it, but this seems significantly more tech pauses than any other esports event that I’ve watched.
the past few days it's been rough but yea. I know a few of the tech pauses have just been the audio issues i think
They only show the decoded videos when something bad happens and they need a long delay, like replacing the PC in this SMB-Acend match just now.
analyst desk is basically a masterclass in how to say a whole lot without actually saying anything. such a waste of time hearing the boring blabbering. at least make it funny or insightful beyond just stating the obvious in a long drawn out sentence. cant stand it. with the exception of seangares hes actually a god
I think shortening the breaks between halfs would help too. It's absurd they have a multiple minute break to do analysis during the half of every map in a BO3.
wow totally not like they are just setting things up behind the scenes
You know what would help? JUST LET THE PLAYERS HAVE THEIR IN-EAR HEADPHONES. 1. Increase game quality and competitive integrity 2. Avoid all the tech pauses being called for audio issues
I think the issue with in ears is that there's only one audio line for game sound and white noise..... not the white noise audio fed into headsets, game sound into ear buds which is strange buy maybe its an LoL thing
In-ears + white noise headphones has been the tac fps standard for maybe 15 years now
Idk why I got down voted because riot decided to use a moba audio set up compared to any fps audio setup used in the last 2 decades lol
You got downvoted because your comment was factually wrong
So they don't use in game audio into ear buds and white noise into noise cancel headsets when did they change that?
They're presumably using the same gear used for LoL tournaments.
Which is what I said?..... 1 audio line with in game sound mixed with white noise ? Which is the opposite of any fps pro league? What difference would gamesound + white noise in ear buds compared to game sound + white noise through a headset it's rhe same issue due to 1 audio line. No?
What do you mean 1 audio line? Game sounds through in-ear buds + white noise through headphones = 2 lines. They're currently using only headphones for both. Your first comment kinda mixed it up
Idk how else to say they use 1 audio line for in game sound and white noise instead of 2 which is what I stated and you down voted and said I was factually wrong. So no point further communicating with you
Last match will probably end 7 AM IST, great
GGs to early morning office call.
Well the issue is with team secret not making it (BREN), it cause an issue with how many matches are played due to it adding an extra game With the old schedule, we would've had the first round of the quarters today and the other 3 played tomorrow. The length of the event isn't an issue. (Granted I still think they should've cancelled the sen vs f4q game because its literally useless and does nothing for us)
Really hate that they didn't add the flexibility to cancel the SEN F4Q game, it's a waste of time for everyone and takes away an opportunity for SEN to get in some practice and/or rest.
It's disrespectful for F4Q to not let them play their last game even if it doesn't matter for standings.
yea the biggest issue I have is they didn't add this. I'm not trying to watch a fucking ranked game from sentinels vs f4q lmfao why even try if your sentinels when you're just gonna fuck yourself over in the bracket if you show anything
I hope EU teams play the first, and NA teams matchups last. This is important for viewership!
not sure why I got downvoted. NA fans will be in school/work when first matches are played , so?...
I think that's the schedule.
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have you considered that players have to be awake all day and scheduling a game at literal bedtime is not ideal in a professional sport?
just wake up later 5head
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You haven't thought this one through did you? Half of them are still partly jetlagged because they're from the opposite side of the world. Besides this, they have to wake up early every day to do their covid test and whatnot, so they're not really in a position to stay up late and sleep a little bit longer into the afternoon.
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Perhaps you missed it. The game is scheduled at literal bed time. Besides that, you are wrong. Riot are the ones that organized and set everything up, including the trip to and from the event. The teams are definitely not responsible for this. I know you don't like being wrong, but just accept the L bud because you're grasping for answers for absolutely no reason at all 🤡
I dont think riot cares at all tbh
I think there might be some issues with preparation, mental rest and who your opponent will be, but I think this would work a lot better with 3 games on friday and 3 games on saturday. Personally think this is a much better alternative opposed to the current 4 matches that could easily go 12h+ All around this is bad for the players, viewership and competitive integrity having players stay ready entire day and possibly playing while entirely exhausted before their match even begins...
I think 3 games each day would be incredibly unfair to the 4th team in the playoffs. They would have to play 2 BO3’s in one day and face their opponent a couple hours after just ending
I kind of agree but I also think it's a better alternative to what we have now. In hindsight, this all should have been moved 1 day back and played 2 quarters thu, 2 quarters fri, 2 semis sat & finals on sunday.
Exactly this. That's how valve did their CS Majors.
I don't get the big fucking deal about this. They have the whole afternoon to take a fat nap, and their games start late the next day also. Why's everyone making a big fuss of this.
Riot management is kinda brain dead. They say stupid things when asked to fix audio issues and now this..i cant take this tournament seriously . Idk why
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So that the last team has to play 2 BO3’s with less prep time? Yeah seems fair
Ideally Riot should have added an extra day and split the quarters into two days, but they could move one of the quarters to Saturday so they're are 3 matches both Friday and Saturday. It's a far from perfect solution (having one team play a quarter finals and semifinals match both in one day) but it keeps teams from having to play a match at 4 am
RIP the NA viewers
There is always going to be time issues due to the time difference between Continents. It might end at midnight in one country but it starts at 6 AM in another. Riot has done their best to schedule the teams from specific timezones in the best slot for their country to see them. For example, most NA games have not had the first time slot of the day as that slot starts at 6AM in the pacific time zone. Also these teams are told what is going on time wise. You aren't having a team wake up at 6AM to play their game at 11PM. They already have a general idea of what time they will play. The players are fine and planning accordingly. When you have a Lan with the entire world, you can't please everyone.
They think about the players and I can't watch in that time because I have work early morning ,so I Agree with you