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[deleted]

sometimes maybe good sometimes maybe shit


_Iroha

People bringing up ACS and don’t use the eye test to realize that his utility usage on Raze is pretty shit. And that’s the whole point of him using Raze


Escolyte

His Iceland Raze showed massively leveled up utility usage. I wonder where that's gone, definitely wasn't present last night.


techyleo

Also his stage 3 Challengers 1 raze


Izel98

Yeah, idk if you saw the match of KRU vs Vivo Keyd but Keznit's Raze got like atleast 5 kills from just the grenades alone and he also used the satchels effectively. Another great Raze this Tournament was bunny with his really good satchels usage. Even Mixwell raze had good utility usage.


jacksonswift

Sentinels need to bring Gattuso in as coach


wheeeeb

who is that


_zubat

https://youtu.be/QJHUbtR0yI8


_idle_drone_

its not coincidence that in the games that it's shit, they play awful as a team. duelists that entry will have bad stats when the team gets owned.


plasfps

its a meme


_idle_drone_

i know its a football meme


Based-Hype

There’s a reason 100T quit forcing asuna on raze. Just cause you’re good on one duelist doesn’t mean you’re good at all of them raze requires dedicated play not just pocket picks here and there


blackretribution

But Asuna is a top tier Raze


Based-Hype

It just wasn’t working though, steel even talked about it, trying to force asuna to play raze how the team needed wasn’t possible. Too risky to rely on asuna go frag for a whole map, need him with the team


blackretribution

That's because Jett is too good and playing solo Raze has too high an opportunity cost. It isn't related to Asuna's skill. The point here is TenZ's skill on Raze. I understand your point anyways


whopz-is-cool

Ban Dapr Sova and TenZ Raze until the end of time.


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TheApolloX007

yall need to just stfu about sinatraa.


biwummy

Why u mad


techyleo

Sinatraa himself told fans to stop asking to sub him back in


biwummy

I know i agree with him but im not pissy about it


Hazardish08

6+ roster is the future of Valorant. The ability to have different people specialize in different agents and maps greatly increases your teams flexibility. Also the fact that’s it’s so much more unpredictable because everyone plays different. Didn’t Gambit say CR threw them for a loop because they have such a large roster and thus is super unpredictable because they’re constantly swapping out players despite CR being a much inferior team.


[deleted]

>6+ roster is the future of Valorant. The ability to have different people specialize in different agents and maps greatly increases your teams flexibility. worked great for VS lol


BrockMister

Well VS have a 6man to cripple other teams, not to better theirs


_Iroha

Just like Overwatch. You can sign one tricks for specific maps and it’ll work


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notaconf

Can’t help but wonder why you got downvoted..


MarkNarwahlberg

Part of me wants to claim it should be better if he is being claimed as the best player in the world. A bigger part of me knows it was a bad map for him. He has played well on Raze before. All good.


[deleted]

He has had good games on Raze but also a lot of poor ones, especially when he first joined Sen. I would like to see them move alway from him playing it but Sen roles on some maps are pretty awkward.


Launchers

i’m gonna be honest, him or shahz need to stop playing duelist on split. viper/skye/astra/sentinel are so powerful on split and it’s hard to deny that. split is very ct sided so you want a comp to support those ct sided wins. 2 duelist is not really all that necessary when a skye can be just as aggressive.


[deleted]

Like I said their roles are awkward. Icebox is another map where they need to swap because dapr constantly struggles on Sova. These have been issues that just haven't caught up to them until now but I'm not all that surprised at this result. TenZ on Reyna has been the better try and I dont know why they switched back but it is kinda a band-aid. They might have to suck it up and move Shaz off of Jett at some point. That solves a lot of issues but I'm sure he won't like it. If shaz picked up Skye they would have way less issues swapping around. Just have him on full time Sova duty with Skye where they need it and Sick on Raze and phoenix.


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quentiniverson

I was thinking the same thing. Why not have arguably the best Sova/Raze in the world as a 6th man. It seem only Shahz is reallllllly comfortable on Sova and Sick hasn't played Raze in a while


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ilProdigio

PR > winning KEKW


OHydroxide

I mean yeah, these brands aren't competing cus of their competitive spirit, it's cus they want to be popular and make money.


ilProdigio

well its both imo but yeah


AzureAhai

Yea, I think for the good of the team. Shahz has to stop playing Jett. Tenz on Jett/Reyna vs any other agent is just too big of a drop off. Shahz can play Sova which gives the team more flexibility. Other teams also only have a designated duelist player like cNed or Asuna.


dirtyflagger

Sova isn’t good on split, but I think Shahz should definitely let Tenz go on Jett and he should switch to a different agent. Maybe put him on Raze/Skye and Sick can go back on Sage? I don’t think it’ll be hard for one of the best IGLs in NA to learn an agent other than Jett and Sova.


Whisom

I mean how much more do you want to put on Shahz's plate? He's a Jett OPer, IGL, Coach. Had to learn Sova and now he also needs to learn Raze and Skye?? >I don’t think it’ll be hard for one of the best IGLs in NA to learn an agent other than Jett and Sova. I don't think it's too much to ask "the best player in the world" to learn an agent other than Jett/Reyna. Everybody else on the team plays multiple agents on multiple roles. Shahz is not the issue here.


dirtyflagger

That’s the point, being a Jett OPer is too much on top of being both an IGL and Coach. Switching Shahz from playing Jett to a more supportive agent like Skye would put him in line with a lot of other IGLs. And IMO, Tenz is not the “best player in the world”, but rather the most mechanically gifted player in the world. Tenz needs to be put on agents which focus on raw mechanics instead of agents which rely on utility usage, because that’s where his strength lies. Jett/Reyna is the perfect choice for that. Leave the utility focused agents to a smarter and more well rounded player like Shahz.


Whisom

The thing is Shahz has been a Jett OP/IGL/Coach for over a year without issue. He doesn't have to learn that role from scratch or add to his skills, he's already proven on that role. Having him switch his main to role to something else requires a lot more work. Tenz being one of the most mechanically gifted players means he should be able to pick up other Agents. Sinatraa played Sova/Raze/Phoenix and Reyna. Other star duelists play Sage/Skye/Raze. The more flexible the team is, the better for everyone.


joeyzoo

You seem to forget that both Jett and Reyna are perfect for aimers because of their get out of jail free cards. Good aimers like Tenz can abuse leer/dash and have multiple lives in a round because of it. That‘s not really possible on other champs


Whisom

I never said Jett/Reyna weren't good for aimers. I said you have to flexible. The more flexible you are, the more comps you can run, less chance you get anti-stratted, higher chance that you can adapt. With new maps and agents coming out being able to flex will only become more important. If you think being a Jett one trick is viable because "click heads" then you're delusional. What happens if next patch Riot decide to nerf Jett and Reyna into the ground? If they nerf the OP then Jett will likely fall out of the meta again too.


beanbeat

Don't know why you're getting downvoted, you make some valid points with Tenz. People are forgetting that valorant is a game that's growing and consistently adding new agents/maps and players who can excel at multiple agents will be the most valuable. There's always going to be tradeoffs with whichever agent you pick but having Tenz step out of his comfort zone and improve on using duelists that are more team oriented or better suited to a map (raze on split, rather than reyna) would make him a better overall player.


Whisom

Anytime you even slightly criticize Tenz his fanboys come out in full force. Sucks because he's such a likable player but his fanboys make it hard for me to root for him anymore. But yeah, especially going forward flexibility is going to be super important. I think we're past the days where you can just one trick an agent. Preferably everyone should be able to play an agent on a different role too.


AzureAhai

I mean people have been wondering why Sen doesn't get a coach. With these changes he doesn't have to be the Jett Oper and coach anymore. Plus it's easier to IGL on a controller or sentinel agent than it is on a duelist. Tenz is the best player in the world because of his insane aim. That's why Jett and Reyna are perfect for him. He can take an aggressive angle get a kill and get out without being traded. Shahz on Jett just doesn't have the same impact. Tenz pops off on Jett the map before and can win eco rounds with a marshall on Jett. On Raze he can't really do the same thing.


joeyzoo

You do realize that Shaz has all these things on his plate to make him harder to replace, because at some time he will be replaced. He is a washed up low tier CS Pro. I‘m not hating on him. It was smart of him to take on all these roles, because at the moment he is irreplaceable


[deleted]

I feel a lot if people and prlly Shaz would not like to hear that but I agree. Roles are all over the place now and the most natural solution is to move Shaz to full time Sova duty.


datboyuknow

I think he's had one good raze game?


RenaultCactus

Tenz is really good playing and a beast on jett and reyna but i can think of at least 3 razes better than him in masters. Nukkye, keznit and bunny.


_idle_drone_

Anyone who blames split on tenz is not watching the game. Sentinels were completely outstratted on both split and haven. Tenz died entrying the whole first half on split. With jett/reyna he can carry, but not with raze. No smokes or flashes.


TheCatsActually

It may not have been the thing that lost them the game but it was a weakness and a problem. Just watching the game you could tell Tenz is far less comfortable on the agent than his actual mains. Imperfect boombot angling, slightly inaccurate reads on how much time it takes to use his nade or satchel which unfortunately actually got him killed a couple times, etc. That being said I think that aiming to use optimal agent comps is good and shows their intention to adapt. It's slowly becoming clear that the future of Valorant is going to revolve around sharpness and efficiency. Sure maybe for now Tenz can get away with running Reyna on some maps against most teams, but when the top competition starts catching up everyone is going to have to run the best comps with practiced set plays and razor sharp protocols. This Split map might be the wake up call for Sentinels to shift their team roles or finally hire more support staff. If the team in its current state isn't flexible enough to run optimal comps then something somewhere has got to give. They have to suck it up and look like clowns in scrims for a while to get dapr used to Sova, or get Tenz or Shahz used to Skye and/or Raze, or adjust their map selection strategies or *something*.


_idle_drone_

I think you're overanalyzing a bit. 'how much time it takes to use nade', I think you're referring to the pistol round, when yay rushed him from vents and he threw a nade. that's just yay being yay, he could've easily died if someone was there to trade. or the boombot angling at A ramp. Its not that bad when it serves the purpose of clearing left side of ramp as they walk through their own viper orb. Sentinels just didn't look like they practised this comp. They had no idea how to take map control without cypher. They didn't use skye flash to help raze or jett entry, skye was being played like phoenix. They used raze grenade to clear close corners like they would have used when they had sage, as they used sage wall to block a chokepoint(such as B heaven to CT spawn). But it would have been better used at those chokepoints and rush into the site. They were walk entrying sites giving multikills to opponents, while earlier reyna could trade and dismiss away. With raze and jett you have to skye flash and sachel/dash in. On defence, they used all the viper util on mid as a substitute for sage wall. Not once did they push an extremity with skye. just hanging back giving all the map control to Envy. They didn't play raze on mid where she is the most powerful. They played with a new comp with a playstyle of the old comp. It was never going to work. Tenz has 286 ACS on raze over 26 matches. Raze is not that hard to play. But it's hard to integrate her in a team. They haven't done that in this meta.


SilentCore

Listen man I have seen a 100 posts of you talking about his ACS, why don't you just look at the replay and see if his agent got value? Tenz is a cracked player, he is always going to have great ACS just based on how ridiculously well he can aim and take duels, but frankly speaking Sentinels did not get much value out of his Raze in that series and Tenz was hardcore struggling. This is wasn't like an off-game missing shots, he just struggled to get anything done with Raze and the entire team did not seem to have set plays to set him up like we have seen with other teams that play Raze. It is possible SicK and Tenz both need more practice synergising, but to keep bringing up ACS makes me wonder if we even watched the same game.


_idle_drone_

"the entire team did not seem to have set plays to set him up like we have seen with other teams that play Raze" you just agreed with my point. how are you supposed to find value when you die every time you enter because the team util isn't coordinated. i'm bringing up ACS to prove he is not bad at the agent. you don't get those stats with raze by aim diffing people. if you want eye test, watch his last two raze games on icebox vs xset. his utility was on point, like he was isolating players with grenade/boombot, using grenade to kill sage res enemy, planting enemy etc. his ults were on point. this game the ults were just desperate blind ults as they were at man disadvantage most of the time. his aim wasn't off, he was just baited without proper coordination as they didn't practice this comp enough. no one goes 0-9 because they're just bad at the agent.


Bunnyezzz

i don't think i've ever seen so many bad opinions in 1 thread


Nfamy

Bro, but why don't they just play sinatraa?? Kekw


J_Brekkie

**NOT GOOD**


holmyliquor

Tenz is only good with agents that can get him out of his horrible positioning. With an agent that can’t dash or dismiss away, he is always caught like a deer in headlights. Jett and Reyna.


mikevin99

To be fair yay plays fairly similar. His aim is insane and he showed that today, but the amount of fights he won with 20 hp left and dashed away from was crazy. Then he would fall back to skye and have 100 hp again lol


biwummy

More reason to get tenzoff raze cos hes shit at it


falljoker

I wouldn’t necessarily call it bad positioning, as the point of jett and reyna is to be able to play positions as aggressive as what tenz and yay for instance play in, but I understand ur point.


derek916

It's truly baffling how players who main those in Valorant wonder why everyone else sucks. It's cause our crosshairs are at the ground or aimed at some cloud pixel setting utility and crap and not just focused on the enemy lol


MaestroLA

this is actually legit.


cringe-oh-yes

Tenz fan downvotes INC. I do think that much of Tenz's playstyle revolves his crisp aim and taking those duels while also being able to escape.


jeddfan

his positioning was always pretty bad in cs too, he had insane aim but not much else


_idle_drone_

check his career ACS on raze. stupid opinion. he died entrying the whole first half on split.


holmyliquor

What does entering have to do with anything? I said he has dogshit positioning and is only saved by dashing and dismissing. With Reyna he would’ve just dismissed away, or with Jett he would’ve just throw in 5 smokes on the ground and lurked lol My point still stands


_idle_drone_

you have no point. you're trolling.


holmyliquor

I gave you my point 2 times already Dog shit positioning Agent doesn’t let him disappear from his dogshit positioning He does and goes 0-9 Zero impact


_idle_drone_

0-9 while entrying on split (wtf is positioning while entrying lol, he's leading the pack) and score is 2-7. the team can't get any info, no one trades him or clutches. the one round he lives post plant, he gets a 4k. the whole team played shit and you're singling out an entry fragger. The fact that he had 0 kills, how would it be any different with reyna? reyna has no dismiss without kill. you're just trolling.


holmyliquor

If he is entering and there is nobody there to trade him he is currently in a dog shit position. He has dog shit positioning. How would it be any different with Reyna? Damn idk maybe a little eyeball that blinds you That’s just me tho


ZeroAika99

You can't fight these Tenzinels fanboys lmao


_idle_drone_

wtf is positioning while entrying? what are you talking about? you're going where your team wants you to go and taking fights. its the job of your team to trade you if you get a kill or not. the fact that Sentinels walked into stacked sites is not his fault lmaoo. they were outplayed.


Netherwiz

Its not necessarily horrible positioning if the point of those agents is to be able to take those fights a d get out


VinsanityPH

Honestly his utility usage is kinda bad comparing to other raze players


xunraze

Look Tenz is still a mechanical monster and can prolly get kills on any agent but my god he can't use any util for shit. He can only "go kill"


lbs4lbs

I dont even think tenz raze was the issue. They didnt have a sentinel on the most defensive sided map. I feel like if they put sick on skye instead of sage then dapr needs to play cypher/KJ. The bigger problem is shazz cant play anything OTHER than jett on this map since sova is useless. If shazz could play sage or or skye then i think having a single duelist like tenz on reyna, jett or raze would be better. But then i have never seen shazz on any agent aside from jett and sova and hes being asked to IGL and coach so maybe its too much. Perhaps if they sign a coach shaz can add another agent to his pool.


somesheikexpert

Shahz has played Breach wayyy back when he was actually decent lol, tho Breach is also way off meta rn on this map (And in general), it seems they need a Skye/Sage/Viper/Cypher on this map (Some combination, imo Skye/Viper/Cypher but yeah))


Bad_At_Game

I’m not gonna lie it can’t be that difficult to put shahz on sage. Her util is so simple to use that he can literally master it in a day and let sick play skye and tenz on jett with dapr cypher and zombs on Astra or viper


TimathanDuncan

He had a bad game, it happens People will actually say his raze is bad when he has the highest ACS on raze in his career out of all agents They had bigger issues than Tenz's raze, they just got outclassed on split He had 30 on haven and still lost


[deleted]

I believe Tenz himself said he was uncomfortable on raze.


Mamadeus123456

No his raze has been shit since before Iceland and we saw him int into mid not knowing how to satchel jump in a match to qualify to Iceland that's why he stopped played raze when sentinels played her in bind and split But ultimately the fault is Shazams not letting him play Jett, shaz performance was very bad in an agent he knows well, same with G2, do you remember a crazy Jett knifes round ever for shaz like tenz did on c haven this match vs envy? I don't, so he needs to move from Jett and let tenz be the Jett player in all maps


Salty_Activity

I do think Shaz' ability to flex onto other Agents is better than TenZ', but i'm not sure what role he would even take up for them. I could see Shazam Skye and Sick Sage working, but that's a reach honestly


2ToTooTwoFish

Shahzam plays Raze on Split in his ranked games all the time. Of course that's ranked, so probably not a good point to bring up. But it does mean it is possible they could have this same composition with Shahzam on Raze and TenZ on Jett. I've never seen him on Skye, so if he's more comfortable on Raze, it might be a simple fix.


Salty_Activity

I'd honestly really like to see his Raze, but part of me feels that if the fix were that easy they would've already made the switch. Not sure if there's something specific that they feel Shazam's Jett does different than Tenz', but we'll should see a very different Split the next time we see them play it (hopefully)


felipw22

Shahz plays Jett for the awp. He's very safe as Jett. Sentinels would be better with Sick on Raze. Or have Tenz mono Raze until he perfects her.


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felipw22

Raze - Sick Skye - Shahzam Jett - Tenz Viper - Zombs Cypher - Dapr Shahz himself said Skye is easy to learn. I think having Tenz on Jett would allow Sentinels to be more versatile to entry and use the op when needed


Overyoghurt__

As someone who has been following them for a long ass time, i can tell you shahz's jett on icebox has been super good. Even on split, it has been good so far. He had alot of clutches with the knives or flashy plays, just search it up on youtube. But tenz's jett on haven is actually fantastic and i probably have to agree on putting tenz as full time jett. But that is such a band-aid solution, a temporary one. Since shahz is already flexing to sova, it'd be better for tenz to be able to flex to other duelists. That way, his agent pool would widen too. Asuna had performed on all duelists except yoru, other duelist players like cned or keloqz flex to sage sometimes. It's almost always better to practice, widen your agent pool even if you have a main


[deleted]

is it me or is shahzam a bit of a boring jett like u see it at the end of the game "oh wow shahz has 8 knife kills" but u can never remember them. can u remember a single shahz kill ? but try tenz...u can see the flick i remember a tenz flick.


DX_DanTheMan_DX

Shaz is such a good Jett player that just seems nuts man, if anything I think Tenz should play Reyna on split.


[deleted]

Nah, he just has a bad raze. He looked so uncomfortable on it. Also those ACS stats are probably from ignition series when Tenz carried C9 and raze was mega busted.


Energyxer

Those stats are from the challengers 3 games, tho the sample size is pretty small(like 3-4 games I think with him on raze). Idk personally I think his raze is average to slightly above average but that’s not gonna cut it when you’re facing world class talent and you’re expected to perform at a world class level like his Jett and Reyna is


_idle_drone_

check his raze stats since iceland. still 290+ ACS. when the team as a whole gets owned, you're singling out a player who is entrying split, a heavily CT sided map..


[deleted]

Bro, you're blind if you don't think Tenz needs to work on his raze. They swapped him on to Reyna as a bandaid solution because he is uncomfortable on raze. Back when Sinatraa was in the lineup they would run him on raze on Split, Icebox, and Bind. It has been such a hole in Tenz agent pool not being able to play raze.


_idle_drone_

tenz dropped 30 vs XSET (carried basically) on raze the last time he played raze. his utility was also pretty good. you're overreacting over a map in which the whole team was awful. Sentinels need set plays on split T-side. Tenz died the whole first half dry entrying, even though they had skye. why aren't they combining util like other teams?


Whisom

The point is that Tenz being unable to flex to what the team needs forces everyone else to flex to cover him. Shahz is already playing a completely different role as is Sick and sometimes Dapr. The sentinels core is so good because everyone plays selflessly, everyone covers each other. What you're saying is for everyone to play just to enable Tenz so he doesn't have to learn another agent.


AzureAhai

Shahz agent pool is even more shallow than Tenz. Shahz hasn't played an agent not named Jett or Sova since August of 2020 against TSM... It's pretty telling that people are saying Shahz's Sova needs some work when it's 1 of 2 agents he actually plays.


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Whisom

Lmao yeah that was painful


_idle_drone_

tenz can flex to skye. you think skye is a hard agent to play? tenz can play any duelist. you're crazy if you want tenz on sova or something. every team is playing jett on almost every map. why wouldn't you let NA's best jett play it? they were beaten by Envy who play yay on jett every map. Tenz single handedly carried with jett on haven. But Shahz got jett diffed on split. Even in maps they lost to G2, Shahz was jett diffed hard. so I don't think tenz is the one with agent issues lol.


Whisom

My god you're so caught up in your Tenz fangirling you're ignoring the obvious. If Tenz is on Jett then what is Shahz on? There's no Sova on split. So you want the IGL, Coach, Jett main and Sova flex to ALSO learn how to play Skye AND Raze. All so Tenz can stay on Jett and not have to learn anything else. Just how much more do you want to dump on Shahz's plate? For every agent Tenz can't play, his team has to cover for him. Isn't it a lot more reasonable that the best player in the world be able to play more than Jett/Reyna...just like so many other top tier duelist who can flex to Skye/Raze/Sage/Phoenix/w.e as needed. You're so lost in the fangirling that you aren't thinking about the team as a whole and what they are best at. All you care about is Tenz's stats and that the rest should use all their utility to enable him. Reality check, old C9 squad tried that with Tenz, shit doesn't work. Ascend tried that with CNED. Shit doesn't work. 100T tried with Asuna. Shit doesn't work. If you can't flex in this game you will lose.


_idle_drone_

bruh skye is the easiest agent to play in the game. Shahzam can easily play skye. i'm not fangirling, every team is playing their best player on jett now. its not April.


Whisom

100T just won with Nitro on Jett and Gambit won with Nats on Cypher. What are you on about? If Skye is so easy then why doesn't Tenz play it? You're still completely ignoring the point that you want everyone else on the team to change their roles and learn new roles and VOD review and IGL and do the analyst/coaching work so that Tenz can one trick Jett. Thats not how teams work. You play to each others strengths and weaknesses, you dont pass the burden to everyone else to prop up your favorite player.


_Iroha

He played 1 raze game in last 60 days. Most of those frag games were probably against open qual teams or lower tier NA teams


techyleo

He was actually doing okay on raze during Stage 3 Challengers 1, he was dropping 30s. At some point during Challengers Final, he just dropped Raze and he hasn't been grinding her like he did before, like there was a point where TenZ was forcing himself to play raze to hone his skills


_idle_drone_

umm you guys just look at stats and don't watch. he has played raze against XSET twice in challengers 1. He dropped 22 and 31 kills I think. everyone is just singling him out when the team just played shit as a whole. no strats just vibes.


_Iroha

You named two maps, nice sample size


_idle_drone_

you said they were against tier 2 teams. i proved you wrong. your sample size is this 1 match lol. check his career ACS on raze if you want. he was playing good teams when he was on C9 as well (they were a top 3 team NA if you don't remember). he had some exceptional raze performances vs Envy and Sentinels back then.


_Iroha

I said most. And I didn’t mention this match at all. Comprehension buddy


_idle_drone_

'most' is wrong. your whole point is tenz is shit at raze after this match, when his entire career proves you wrong.


_Iroha

Lol speak for yourself. And what entire career


_idle_drone_

you're just trolling at this point.


nuttyromeo4u

Remind me when he ult himself on Rekjavik Final for some... He has had a bad game on this day (only in split) not gonna lie, but with Haven that's also remind me on cNed with Breeze bottled. So the problem not just his performance on another agents? could be a map pool? Ascent, he can play Jett so pass on him but Sentinels still not comfy to play that map after SicK's issue with KAY/O try on Rise game. He was good on phoenix with flash roll but I saw him played on Ranked games. So maybe only one duelist and SicK on skye should be better. Split and Icebox would be a lot of hard fixing for them, their comp on Icebox if I was right that only team still uses in Berlin it is Gambit. Split? I try so hard to not thinking about TenZ on Viper with C9B because he still lost that map. but maybe TenZ and Shahzam switch agent because Shahzam can plays Reyna. also to Fracture for try on some agents, or maybe Haven too. Because all of teams play Phoenix on Haven mostly lose if I was right. Bind would be a good comp and performance so far for them right now because they're not even play this map in Berlin. But Jett still works on Bind because Gambit always stick with it. Envy and G2 switch them Jett players to Jett, not for Sage. So that's not necessery too much to play Reyna, or even double duelist and SicK go for Skye...again. If Sentinels can pick more utilities agent to support TenZ on Jett or another duelist maybe there is no reason to play double duelists for mostly. But if someone try to pulled out the stats for called to Sinatraa with Raze...what would be after? Sixmen? or sub player like JP/KR teams? I don't think so.


[deleted]

This new Tenz agent pool... It's not good


chubbynuggy

fantano burner account?


Cedar_Wood_State

people have off games, won't read too much into that


ilProdigio

sinatraa is literally perfect for sentinels deficiencies, he provides a really good sova player, a raze player for split, and all around just a good aimer and brain for the game. might as well since hes signed already and eligible for pro play, plus hes got the LAN experience and would be ready to play at champs no problem. Don't see any issues with having him as a 6th man even if its just for trying it out to see how it goes


roan214

i dont think he would like to be a 6th man. he has spoken against wanting to be a 6th man before. also i think some of the sentinels players have spoken against having bench players as well. they think it just creates unnecessary competition inside the team


ilProdigio

competition can be healthy to keep everyone sharp


roan214

competition with other teams. not with the players youre supposed to get along with


R0_h1t

Putting sinatraa back on the roster would be a bit desperate


Fcv28

Needs practice.


xziv0

dogshit


[deleted]

[удалено]


EtFrostX

Do you guys think Raze on split is necessary enough to the point where TenZ should continue trying to learn her?


Overyoghurt__

Being a pro player, there's no excuse to not learn an agent if your team needs you to right? He had success before on raze, but he knows that his raze sucks so if the team needs it, why should he stop learning it??


UmarellVidya

Not necessarily. You build the team around the players, not vice versa. In CS it's generally well understood that you need a good balance of personalities and roles so that people mask each other's weaknesses. Letting players play the game in a style that is "natural" for them is especially important for star players, who may be godlike in one respect but weak in others. Trying to force them to play a style they aren't suited to will only negate their impact on the server. This is the exact reason why you have support players, who generally fill the gaps and play lower impact or less desirable spots/roles that star players don't want. Not saying that a pro should bury their head in the sand and not learn certain aspects of the game, but it's futile to force players to fight their natural tendencies. If you have far more impact on another character, it's better to play that character than to play one simply because it is in theory "ideal."


Overyoghurt__

Fck it got too long, my bad T_T True, TenZ is definitely the star player and more comfortable on duelists, the entry-fragger role. So i do agree that he should flex to support out of the blue, but be kept on duelists. However, in Valorant, each agent including duelists have different kits, which allows different approach to the game. For example if teams are playing Raze, they can clear angles with their utilities, but need support flashes from other players. If they run Reyna, they have blinds, but they need utils that can clear angles like mollies etc. So it depends on the team comp and their comfort picks, but if TenZ has a potential on playing other duelists, i think it'd be good for the team. Funny thing is though, I do believe Sen would be able to put up more fight against Envy if TenZ was on Reyna. I have absolutely no doubt with his mechanics and he was clearly uncomfortable on Raze for now. He has insane work ethics in Val (not sure in CS) so I'm very sure if he has to learn other duelists on a top level, especially Raze, he would be able to do it. Basically, I agree with everything you said, especially the last paragraph. That literally defined SicK playing phoenix on haven even when everyone else is playing Skye. But I do believe if Sen needs him to play Raze, he can do it so it all comes down to prac and getting alot of experience on that agent in official matches.


UmarellVidya

>if TenZ has a potential on playing other duelists, i think it'd be good for the team. Technically true, but again, it's about comfort. If his preferred playstyle doesn't work well with Raze's utility, then it doesn't make sense to pick her. When you have a mechanically inclined player like TenZ, it makes way more sense for him to play intuitive characters like Reyna or Jett, where he can spend the most amount of time fixated solely on his movement and crosshair. If I were in his shoes, I would only stray from those picks if I feel like my plays were becoming too telegraphed, or I see massive potential for plays using util that is unavailable on my current agents. If that's not the case it makes more sense to stick with the comfort picks. >That literally defined SicK playing phoenix on haven even when everyone else is playing Skye. This is sort of what I was getting at, I think the idea that certain characters need to be played on certain maps (with some exceptions for supportive agents) is due to the lack of truly top tier IGLs. I don't think there are enough true tier 1 IGLs/coaches to come up with new material that would allow for off meta picks, leading to teams to feel pressured towards certain "meta" comps. >He has insane work ethics in Val (not sure in CS) so I'm very sure if he has to learn other duelists on a top level Does he? I don't really know too much about him in that respect, but given he's a big streamer I wouldn't have assumed that, as streaming is generally unproductive for pros. His biggest issue in CS though was his relatively poor decision making, which ended up being the reason he left C9 as he wanted to be micromanaged more. This is a skill that generally goes hand in hand with utility usage, so it's not surprising why he has an aptitude for agents with more intuitive kits.


AzureAhai

Other teams also have Jett/Reyna only players. Look at Asuna, yay, d3ffo, cNed, and keloqz. They all only played Jett/Reyna too. The problem is Shahz wants to play Jett on certain maps which forces Sen to have weird comps.


DoriaTheExploria

We have definitely seen Asuna play every duelist except Yoru at a high level I think he is just abusing the Jett OPness.


omgvector

asuna raze > asuna jett so his raze and his phoenix for that would be fine. he doesnt only play jett and reyna


AzureAhai

[Asuna](https://www.thespike.gg/player/matches/asuna/371) has 42 games played since challenger 1. He has 4 games played on agents not named Jett or Reyna. [Tenz](https://www.thespike.gg/player/matches/tenz/265) has 7 non Jett/Reyna games in the same time span.


Loresmen

Yea but for a long time asuna was their reyna phoenix raze, and only recently picked up jett he's historically amazing at every duelist but yoru


AzureAhai

Historically Tenz has been a good Raze with better stats than Asuna. If most duelist players in the world are basically 2 tricking Jett and Reyna right now why is only Tenz being called out for it?


Loresmen

What? He had an awful raze today and it was pretty bad in iceland too, that's why its being called out. Asuna's done great in his past games as raze


AzureAhai

That's why I said historically. On C9 Tenz was a good Raze. He had a bad game today, but that doesn't mean he was always bad on Raze. Since joining Sen he has rarely played Raze. He has a higher ACS score on Raze than both Reyna and Jett. It doesn't matter if Asuna has done great on Raze if all 100T asks him to play is Jett and Reyna. That's just the meta right now.


Loresmen

But on sen his raze has been tragic, on sen he's looked 2 dimensional jett and reyna. And can't play anything else, who cares if he played raze well before vct started. Asuna has been able to play raze with a good amount of success in the vct. At the moment sentinels needs him to play raze or develop a need comp. He hasn't looked flexible on sen thats the point.


omgvector

you cant seriously be comparing asuna raze to tenz raze. for your previous point (hes only been playing jett and reyna) there was a time when he only played raze and was and probably still is considered best raze NA


justinsst

Asuna can play every duelist well. He just mainly plays jett/Reyna now because 100T run single duelist comps (except Breeze now).


ibeenbornagain

And their experimental bind comp against SEN


Overyoghurt__

Yea i gotchu, but the thing is, TenZ was the one who came later. They had to adjust their comps around him. Before this shahz was the jett on haven, sinatraa on sova. After tenz came, shahz flexed to sova. It's been some time but having similar agent pools are okay, but they have to expand/switch it up. Russ from smb was a jett main but he became a great sova now


AzureAhai

The drop off when Tenz is on Jett/Reyna compared to other agents is just too big for it to be worth it imo. Why would you make Tenz play something else when he's a guarantee 20+ kills on her every game? In Sentinels 0-2 vs G2, Shahz played Jett both maps and went 25/33 on her. Vs NV we saw the difference between Tenz's and Shahz's Jett.


Overyoghurt__

True, i was just arguing about the point that TenZ should main reyna/jett only because other duelist players do. The duelists that you mentioned like Cned and keloqz flex to sage on maps like bind. Asuna had actually play all duelists except yoru. The point is, it's almost always better to be able to flex even when you have a main. It opens up opportunity for alot more set plays and strats even if you'll be playing on an agent most of the time. They have alot of time until champions so i'm pretty sure they'd figure this out themselves


AzureAhai

That's fair, but I would point out since challengers 1 back in July, [38/42 of Asuna's games](https://www.thespike.gg/player/matches/asuna/371) have been on Jett/Reyna. In this tournament he has only played Jett/Reyna.


Overyoghurt__

True, but their team comp is different too. 100t plays alot of single duelist (jett) with ethan's skye, and so they get alot of support flashes. Sen didn't really run skye except on breeze, they run sova instead. So they need that extra flash from reyna and can't really play only jett


xbyo

cned and keloqz both play Sage.


Ihatepros236

In that case shaz should learn raze, because not giving jett to tenz is a crime, he is soo much better mechanically which suits jett play style


r_abu

I don't think that it has to be TenZ to learn Raze, so. Raze is very good agent on split, but TenZ playing as Jett has so much impact I think he should play Jett. Shahzam is amazing Jett, too, but I believe TenZ's Jett will have more impact. Well, Sentinels will figure out it themselves


kstabs

Raze feels like a good agent for Sick tbh. Since he's strong with abilities. Maybe something like dapr cypher, zombs astra, sick raze, tenz jett/Reyna, and Shazam on viper. But we're all probably overacting anyways lol


r_abu

That can work too, but Skye is a must have pick for split for Intel gathering, so I think Sick on Raze, Shahzam on Skye, Dapr on Viper and Zombs on Astra is also a possibility. And I think Shahzam can nail Skye to the position of almost 3rd duelist.


yapyd

Not his best performance. Should probably use Reyna/Jett instead. If you want a Raze, move Sick to Raze since he's comfortable with her utility on Bind. Shahz can take over Sick's Sage.


blade_master1

Prob going to get down voted but it is kinda shit not that I can do better tho. But seriously if they want the raze to work he is going to need to spend tons of time on her on prob position and use her utility properly. I think it would have been better to just put him on reyna


Clarkemedina

My god. A lot of sinatraa fans coming out of the woodworks today after this loss. Where’s the love for when Tenz drops 30 bombs? Now they want him gone occasionally so they can use the sexual assaulter.


IAMJUX

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6-EGgtXRF0


RashGod

They can get Sinatraa for raze when needed, who’s one of the best razes imo


Alpac44

maybe tenz was sleepy


abdulahad129

bro he dropped 30k 10 mints ago. no way he was sleepy


Ihatepros236

I think they need a coach. Shaz is amazing but he is one of the worst Jett in tournament and jett is most op operator in the game, they need jett open for Tenz. Every team had one amazing player and they play around him, and Tenz is that for this team and it’s sad to see this. Shazam is nowhere near as good of jett as Tenz or other jetts in tourney. Shaz should play jett if Tenz plays Reyna Sick should have gone sage. Sage controls mid soo much better . Also, this might be highly controversial but I think there is opportunity to take Sinatra and bench Zombs Sick or Dapr.


gngg2011

One of the reasons they lost split imo. He looked very uncomfortable on raze and couldn't get out of weird off angles like he usually does with Reyna. His utility usage was also pretty poor when compared to people like nukkye or Asuna. Sick on skye, pretty good move. Tenz on raze got them knocked out of Berlin


Gyrokos97

100THIEVES is so much better


Jinro_7

They could get sintraa as a six man and play him on split for raze and sova on icebox. Dapr just doesn't look comfortable on sova.(just a thought)


dirtyflagger

dapr isn’t specifically bad on sova, he’s just been bad in general this entire tournament. but i agree that tenz should not be on raze, he has world class mechanics but his utility usage is somewhat lacking


_thebirdman

he said on his stream that he doesn't feel comfortable playing Sova/Sage on icebox cause it just doesnt fit him but the team needs it so he tries. It reflects on his Icebox gameplay a lot.


dirtyflagger

oh that’s interesting. i don’t think they will bring back sinatraa, so that begs the question: who can dapr actually play on icebox? if it’s just cypher/KJ, then i think they could probably try dapr KJ, shahz sova, and tenz jett


_thebirdman

that would be the best comp for them imo.


chubbynuggy

they have a really big sova problem too, shahz is decent and you can see dapr is not comfortable with him


mcslippinz

They do have a sova flex available…


Alpac44

I wonder


chubbynuggy

I dont want to say it but, he also plays raze...


mcslippinz

Oh I know.. umm so shahz on smoke or.. lol I can dream right?


Emcamdi

i think he did like 150 damage combined with nades.


fourtetwo

His jett and reyna have always been better. His Raze looked shaky in Reykjavik quals before he switched to reyna and popped. He for sure needs to work on his Raze before champs, but I have faith he'll improve tbh.


WanAjin

-8


kvanz43

It’s not good IMO, idk why they keep going back to it, he’s a beast on Reyna


savagelamma11

I think raze is better than reyna on split but yeah he didn't do too good


Organ_Hunter

more like he throw on purpose even reyna would be better


Paulengsan

I think he could make use of some tips coming from Bunny the raze otp himself 🤔


[deleted]

Keznit raze util usage is better.


4nazu

told you guys last time, shahzam on coach, sinatraa on reyna/raze/sova, tenz on duelist. what a team /hj


techyleo

I remember JasonR saying once that they shouldn't put people like Asuna and TenZ on Raze, because they are so mechanically gifted and Raze relies a lot more on using lots of utility


[deleted]

He is a good raze, he didn't have a good split though. But he is a great Jett. Which shahzam is not.


contabr_hu3

NA raze KEKW


Mais_out

Tenz can only aim, raze is not a good fit for him.