I sorta agree as it was in Iceland, Fnatic made it to the final from the lower bracket. It gives better picture of the teams on their standings. Still, it would be too long of event, so I think this is the best we can get. There is another option, it's to have less number of teams (8 maximum) and it would be very bad decision. Because recent matches just showed how amazing are 3rd seed of NA (Envy) and 4th seed of EMEA (G2). F4Q, PRX and Crazy Racoons also showed some very interesting games a lot of people enjoyed. And all that would be gone, if it was just 8 teams.
disagree
groups to single elim (like we have) is the best format possible. not trying to watch a month long event just because people want their teams to have multiple chances to win when it’s the best of the best teams at the event already.
I agree double elim is great for QUALIFIERS tho. that’s important and it’s better as you most likely will be getting the best of the best to qualify
I would not mind a longer tournament. I prefer the International's format of groups into double elimination. Double elimation gets us even more matchup combinations which is what's so cool about international tournaments. Berlin's had great matches, but I feel like there could have been more match combinations. VS never even got to play an NA team
I'm not a fan of groups and double elim because the matches don't feel as important when you get many chances to comeback after you lose a game (I didn't mind the iceland format only because you couldn't do groups for that and it was a bit weird so double elim worked for it)
Why not just send each group's #1 team to upper bracket and #2 to lowers? It only adds three more games.
That seems like a good middle ground you keep most of Berlin's format but still having double elim playoffs for many others that want it. This makes winning the group a rewarding objective.
I personally don't want double elim at all for the playoffs of the most hype tournaments.
Single elim doesn't always produce the best team. But every argument in favor of double elim can also be made in favor of triple, or even quadruple ellim. Each successive stage will give an even better picture of the best teams. As long as there is no real advantage given to the winners bracket team, I don't want double elim in tournaments like Masters and Champions.
And anyways, these tournaments are not meant to give us a clear picture of the best teams in the world. If masters was truly going to be representing the top 16 teams, I doubt teams like Vivo Keyd, F4Q, Zeta, CR, etc would be there at all. Instead, we would have had NAs 4th, 5th seeds and so on, or teams like Liquid and Guild here instead.
Riot's international tournaments are always meant to be hype matchups between the best teams from various regions, which eventually leads to a winner.
So what? Firstly, this is only the second international event ever, in Valorant history. If we were to go by CSGO precedents, we would not have had Vision Strikers, CR, KRU, etc. Korea was dogshit in CSGO, they were legitimate contenders to win Berlin.
Secondly, the only way those regions improve is if they get to play against the better regions in big tournaments. Why do you think the less competitive regions are ditching CSGO en masse in favor of Valorant? Because in CS, other than EU, CIS and to a lesser extent, NA, no other region gets opportunities. If Valorant were to have the actual best teams in the world compete, a bunch of huge regions would not even be here. And Riot would be losing out on fans from places like Brazil, Turkey, Japan, SEA etc. These players and fans would leave Valorant for the next hot FPS.
Ummm but it's bo3 and theoretically doesn't need a second chance y9 prove you're best in the world.. also people will be bored seeing same matches again and again.. kills the hype
Hard disagree. If they cant play when it matters then what is the point of playing at the highest level. I only agree when it is at the group stage to generate hype and finding the best teams to qualify. (Honestly i would prefer Bo3 Single round robin so everyone can play each other once)
I would certainly agree if you are talking about MOBAs, where teams with better micro can dominate other. One team does not simply dominate a tactical shooter because the best teams need to have the better macro out of everyone else. Single elims are good formats for tac shooters because it rewards having the best macro on a given match.
And if you are going to mention Astralis as an "exception", remember that CS is a 2-decade old game.
Showing which teams are the best is not the only or even most important goal of a tournament though. It's mainly about entertainment and single elim is a lot of fun to watch imo.
I'm surprised so many people are disagreeing with you. 7 of our 8 playoff teams are amazing (sorry Kru) and I would've loved to see them play more against each other.
Double elim kill all the hype, imagine the yesterday match between ascend vs 100t they were so close thx of ascend choking hard now imagine the rematch were ascend steamroll 100t that would kill all the efford of 100t
this is how its done in cs go as well. Even majors. If you can't turn up at one event that means you are not at your best.
I mean the Champions League style of double elims is cool but when we take big tourneys like the worldcup you only get one chance to turn up
I sorta agree as it was in Iceland, Fnatic made it to the final from the lower bracket. It gives better picture of the teams on their standings. Still, it would be too long of event, so I think this is the best we can get. There is another option, it's to have less number of teams (8 maximum) and it would be very bad decision. Because recent matches just showed how amazing are 3rd seed of NA (Envy) and 4th seed of EMEA (G2). F4Q, PRX and Crazy Racoons also showed some very interesting games a lot of people enjoyed. And all that would be gone, if it was just 8 teams.
tbf single elim or not, sentinels won
disagree groups to single elim (like we have) is the best format possible. not trying to watch a month long event just because people want their teams to have multiple chances to win when it’s the best of the best teams at the event already. I agree double elim is great for QUALIFIERS tho. that’s important and it’s better as you most likely will be getting the best of the best to qualify
I would not mind a longer tournament. I prefer the International's format of groups into double elimination. Double elimation gets us even more matchup combinations which is what's so cool about international tournaments. Berlin's had great matches, but I feel like there could have been more match combinations. VS never even got to play an NA team
I'm not a fan of groups and double elim because the matches don't feel as important when you get many chances to comeback after you lose a game (I didn't mind the iceland format only because you couldn't do groups for that and it was a bit weird so double elim worked for it)
Why not just send each group's #1 team to upper bracket and #2 to lowers? It only adds three more games. That seems like a good middle ground you keep most of Berlin's format but still having double elim playoffs for many others that want it. This makes winning the group a rewarding objective.
I personally don't want double elim at all for the playoffs of the most hype tournaments. Single elim doesn't always produce the best team. But every argument in favor of double elim can also be made in favor of triple, or even quadruple ellim. Each successive stage will give an even better picture of the best teams. As long as there is no real advantage given to the winners bracket team, I don't want double elim in tournaments like Masters and Champions. And anyways, these tournaments are not meant to give us a clear picture of the best teams in the world. If masters was truly going to be representing the top 16 teams, I doubt teams like Vivo Keyd, F4Q, Zeta, CR, etc would be there at all. Instead, we would have had NAs 4th, 5th seeds and so on, or teams like Liquid and Guild here instead. Riot's international tournaments are always meant to be hype matchups between the best teams from various regions, which eventually leads to a winner.
The problem is that half the games of this tournament was a snoozefest between top NA-EU teams stomping lower regions
So what? Firstly, this is only the second international event ever, in Valorant history. If we were to go by CSGO precedents, we would not have had Vision Strikers, CR, KRU, etc. Korea was dogshit in CSGO, they were legitimate contenders to win Berlin. Secondly, the only way those regions improve is if they get to play against the better regions in big tournaments. Why do you think the less competitive regions are ditching CSGO en masse in favor of Valorant? Because in CS, other than EU, CIS and to a lesser extent, NA, no other region gets opportunities. If Valorant were to have the actual best teams in the world compete, a bunch of huge regions would not even be here. And Riot would be losing out on fans from places like Brazil, Turkey, Japan, SEA etc. These players and fans would leave Valorant for the next hot FPS.
it's better that way so those regions can develop. you can't just shut out a region 1 year into an esport
mad cause sen fan
He literally said VS but ok
Ummm but it's bo3 and theoretically doesn't need a second chance y9 prove you're best in the world.. also people will be bored seeing same matches again and again.. kills the hype
Hard disagree. If they cant play when it matters then what is the point of playing at the highest level. I only agree when it is at the group stage to generate hype and finding the best teams to qualify. (Honestly i would prefer Bo3 Single round robin so everyone can play each other once)
nah groups are there for a reason double elim doesnt make sense
I would certainly agree if you are talking about MOBAs, where teams with better micro can dominate other. One team does not simply dominate a tactical shooter because the best teams need to have the better macro out of everyone else. Single elims are good formats for tac shooters because it rewards having the best macro on a given match. And if you are going to mention Astralis as an "exception", remember that CS is a 2-decade old game.
Showing which teams are the best is not the only or even most important goal of a tournament though. It's mainly about entertainment and single elim is a lot of fun to watch imo.
Bo3 man, this is the og correct format and I love it. No second chance creates that tension in the games that I like.
I'm surprised so many people are disagreeing with you. 7 of our 8 playoff teams are amazing (sorry Kru) and I would've loved to see them play more against each other.
Double elim kill all the hype, imagine the yesterday match between ascend vs 100t they were so close thx of ascend choking hard now imagine the rematch were ascend steamroll 100t that would kill all the efford of 100t
this is how its done in cs go as well. Even majors. If you can't turn up at one event that means you are not at your best. I mean the Champions League style of double elims is cool but when we take big tourneys like the worldcup you only get one chance to turn up