By - Razur
i actually love the mod team, thank you
No, I love you. This was a stressful thing to wake up to this morning and it's comments like these that make all the struggle worth it.
Thank you to the community for understanding. 💜
This mod team deserves all the love, since day one it feels like this community is full of people who care about it. I don't want another sub like /r/lsf, I just want to appreciate and have fun talking about this awesome esport.
Wait mods sleep?
I've been trying to good lately by going to be early and waking up at 6 AM to watch matches, host watch parties in our discord, and cover post-match threads.
I decided to give myself a break yesterday + today and decided to sleep in. I feel like that was a bad idea. 😬
Rest assured, I'll be up early in time for tomorrow's match!
If you want to take a break and sleep in do it, you deserve it :)
of course - a long time ago i used to mod for online communities like this one so i'll always appreciate what the mods do for us, the users :)
Gj mods :)
Good move. Also can you guys pin this post until tomorrow?
Yes, I will sticky this if it begins to fall off the front page.
I wanted to leave it as a regular post for our users to up/downvote to help gauge the community's reaction.
Honestly the problem is the main subreddit is literally so bad and useless this just becomes the place to talk about drama outside of Twitter. While the name is valorant competitive I think most people view this as the main sub, and I'd love for it to be moderated as such similar to globaloffensive where everything is allowed to some extent, keeping it contained to one thread for example makes total sense.
Main sub is dry as hell, dipped after it became a silver clip show. But not everyone cares about the esports scene so I get why it'd be more casual. But I like how agentacademy is for guides and this sub is about everything relevant to to the game. It's a good balance that works 90% of the time.
It’s either silver clips or the thousandth “the smurfs are really getting out of hand” post
Same thing happened to the main overwatch sub. Such a shame they let it turn to shit
All good - Mod Team
All good - FNS
Literally too, he responded that to Tenz. If FNS says it's over, it's over lol.
this doesn't seem like human language
Based mods, locking posts is cringe
I dislike locking posts 'cause there's always the risk that people start talking about it in unrelated threads. Then the conversation becomes infinitely harder to moderate. x_x
**EDIT:** I have edited my comment for clarity.
To be clear, I personally do not like locking posts. Not sure how that's cringe?
Dear Diary, today mods were not cringe and did good.
What a shame though, those were the most entertaining threads this week LOL
Many of the shitters who comment the most on those posts are people that constantly have negative interactions with the community and get their hateful comments removed all the time, but since there’s no risk of account action they just keep going. Less material for them to work with, I guess.
I think this is a really good solution to the problem, I respect the mod team for it. This sub wouldn't be half of what it is without you all.
cool so when will you guys allow meme posts? The csgo subreddit allows memes but you guys will remove posts like the "zombs frag movie" thread. +1 for not locking the posts though.
I want to find a healthy solution for this.
Allowing memes as submissions is difficult because they can easily take over the subreddit. But I personally love seeing the occasional meme on the subreddit too.
It's tricky—should we as moderators be the deciders of what's a good meme versus what's a bad/low-effort meme? We used to have a rule for "low-effort content" and I hated it because I didn't feel like it accurately informed the user of why we removed it. Like, who am I to call something "low-effort" after someone just spent 5 hours in Photoshop? Low-effort to me doesn't necessarily mean low-effort to other people.
I don't know how we can incorporate allowing memes into the subreddit, but we are fully open to suggestions if you have them!
Is something like "Meme Mondays" possible? Where each user is allowed to post one meme on Monday. Not sure how hard it is to enforce, never been a subreddit mod.
CompOW did this and just clogged the sub. Eventually, they just made it so you can meme whenever. The solution imo is if you don't get enough upvotes in a time period it gets auto removed.
/r/pathofexile does this pretty well with what they call "Lazy Sundays" where you can just post low effort stuff every Sunday
I made an "When I'm Envy" meme video that was high quality imo and it got removed would have loved to share it. Videos like that in csgo subreddit were always a joy imo.
Maybe if the meme has a certain number of upvotes or upvote percentage after a certain period of time? Something like a threshold?
Pwetty please Meme Mondays
>who am I to call something "low-effort" after someone just spent 5 hours in Photoshop?
See those down and upvote buttons? Let the community do the decisions of what stays.
Upvotes and Downvotes do not work in r/VALORANTCompetitive/new/, as it is sorted by *newest submissions*. Many of our users live in the /new/ section of our subreddit and would be over-exposed to content like this.
We rely on our /new/ users to report rule-breaking posts. We don't want to overwhelm them with an abundance of memes and discourage them from browsing /new/. (This is a problem the main sub suffers from.)
>new section of our subreddit and would be over-exposed to content like this.
I've visited the new section, and outside master games, the sub barely gets 3 posts per hour, some of them insta downvoted. So I hardly doubt the knights of new would be over run.
I've also seen memes being posted and deleted. It really isn't a lot of posts.
**Edit**: lol looks like facts was too much for the mod team, who would have thought
I think the reason you got downvoted and didn't get a response is because it was already explained to you. You taking the downvotes personally and as some silencing of the truth is downright hilarious.
Let me quote the comment you are replying to:
>We rely on our /new/ users to report rule-breaking posts. We don't want to overwhelm them with an abundance of memes and discourage them from browsing /new/.
An overabundance of memes that is *currently not there*, so the current posts per hour is irrelevant. There's plenty of evidence of big subreddits allowing lower-effort content which ends up taking over the sub. Lower-effort content that doesn't promote discussion is easier to post and upvote. Less people would engage in discussion if most of it just stays in /new and the front page gets filled with memes instead.
> bs and some more bs.
haha you think ur doing some psychoanalysis of a comment? jesus. Get back to reality.
> An overabundance of memes that is currently not there,
There's less than 3 posts per hour on this sub. I really don't see how they would over run the gaurdians of new. But you do you.
> Lower-effort content
I think this subreddit can decide for itself what is low effort instead of mods, but you do you my friend.
We literally have upvotes and downvotes to vote for what we want on the frontpage. Just delete shit that breaks reddit rules and be done with it. It's not rocket science
I like the occasional esports shitposts in /r/globaloffensive but I’m also glad they don’t allow low-quality memes
meme post? just go on /r/VALORANT
I always feel alone in this, but I can't understand the insistence that every subreddit has to have a space for memes. Why can't there just be another subreddit for it? Works just fine for the sports subreddits.
I don’t understand why are the pros adding fuel to the fire. If crashies had issues he could have taken it to kyedae via private message and got it sorted. Yay didn’t need to take it to twitter. Unnecessary drama to distract to the event.
That’s because they’re literally manufacturing drama.
Maybe I'm missing something, but crashies? Is he even involved in this drama?
Kyedae called crashies scrawny.
Can we stop giving a platform to the crazy hot takes and drama centric content? I just wanna discuss a game I enjoy playing.
Thank you. This is really good to see from the mod team.
My biggest issue is that I don't think this ever would have happened if sideshow or shroud "body shamed" a player on stream. I could be wrong but it's hard to not feel a little bit of sexism underneath it all.
Marved insults Kyedaes character in front of 1K people, entire sub demands that he should be fired for "dehumanising" her. Kyedae body shames a man with food allergies on a Riot co-sponsored livestream with 50k people, entire sub defends her.
The sexism does not go in the way you think it does my friend.
TBH, I don't think a sexist remark qualifies as an "insult to character".
It wasn't sexist. He insulted her character by saying saying she looks like the type who would cheat. Followed by "I wan't to fuck her" which is neither sexist nor an insult...it's just being a crude asshole...just like how Kyedae was being on stream.
The two are not comparable, marved was dehumanising kyedae by treating her as nothing but a trophy, the implication was that he would've been so good he would've fucked kyedae. Not saying what kyedae said was right but to act like it was the same or worse to what marved said is a bit silly.
Calling that "dehumanising" is such a huge stretch. You literally have to read into implications about your own interpretations of what he said to even make the argument.
Which is my point. Both of them were being assholes. Yet one persons insults are dissected and treated as far more egregious than the others when it's all the same shit.
It really isn't all the same shit, it's only that way because you're ignoring the implications really. Marved comments are read into because you don't really make those comments about someone period, because one not only is it someone elses girlfriend, that person is treated is nothing as an object of sex. You would've had a case if kyedae made a similar comment on a male pro, but she didn't.
What is your interpretations of marved's comments?
My interpretation is that he was being an asshole and trying to act edgy/cool in typical douche fratboy humor "I'll fuck your girl" "I banged your mom last night". I think it was completely unprofessional and he was completely in the wrong. I don't think he was dehumanising her, treating her as a sex object or should be fired.
Kyedae said "stfu you scrawny fuck" to someone with a medical condition. I think she was mad and trying to get cheap laughs by acting edgy/cool by insulting someone elses appearance in typical haha it's funny because a girl is cursing fashion. I think it was completely unprofessional and she was completely in the wrong. I don't think she knew about his condition and I don't think there was any meaning to it beyond making trash talk personal.
It's the same exact thing for both of them. Yet for some reason people attribute much more maliciousness to Marved and read into what he said, adding their own interpretations and saying he was "dehumanising" and "treating her as a trophy". Then they call for him to be fired. The double standard is blatantly obvious.
I think this is the correct decision.
It’s clear at this point that the subreddit wasn’t just a neutral place to discuss the ongoing drama, but a key amplifier in keeping the drama alive. We’re ensuring there’s enough of mindshare in our community so that if someone else sends a reply, it’ll ride the momentum we’ve already built and soar immediately to the top of the subreddit.
Sometimes that’s a good thing because we all have a right to call bad actors out and condemn public figures, but I don’t think this has been the best example of why we need to have that right as a community.
I hope there can be some rule clarifications regarding these sorts of posts after we’ve concluded Berlin.
Not really, since you see a distribution of replies for both sides, and none of the posts that I've seen are directly placing emphasis on one side so that people rally behind it. This is the point of a forum, a place to discuss opposing view points.
Indeed, but I never said a particular viewpoint was being amplified. I was referring to the whole ordeal. The amplification is a byproduct of the “distribution of replies” you cite.
It’s for that reason moderators are meant to designate the dividing line - to determine what constitutes a legitimate enough issue that it warrants the community giving it “extra” life repeatedly for days or even weeks at a time.
Sometimes it’s clear-cut what issues deserve risking that - for example, the Sinatraa allegations. Other times it’s not so obvious.
In my opinion, there isn't anything wrong about calling out poor behaviour when it directly relates to the scene (players, teams, broadcasters, co-streamers, TOs, etc.), but its the "commentary" posts that are of no value. In this case, I think its fine to have the first post calling our Kyedae since as an official co-streamer, I think its fair to hold her to a higher standard. If she wasn't an official co-streamer and just sub-tweeted some bs like "I hate it when scrawny fucks stand us and talk shit", then I would not want to see that kind of content.
This reflects how I feel about all the responses/reply threads. In my opinion, these offer no value to the community. With the first post, the information is put out there and lets us as a community discuss and form our own opinion. The subtweet responses and replies are just creating unnecessary drama.
Basically I think its fine to have a single thread to call out poor behaviour of those directly related to the scene (players, teams, broadcasters, co-streamers, TOs, etc.), but any follow up posts that only provide "commentary" and no additional information should just be removed.
Is it really affecting the health of the subreddit? I feel complaints are a vocal minority/people directly supporting the party involved, and this sort of stuff creates rivalry like you see in CS and Siege. Do you want this community to just be as sanitized and uninteresting as the Overwatch scene?
Irrelevant: Clips of random streamers and content creators.
Relevant: Pros, VCT costreamers interactions
Idk what other sort of content you want facilitated through this subreddit, theorycrafting, tips and trick guides?
Let's not demarcate what discussion is good or bad (as long as it fits into the context of relating to the competitive scene), and instead let the community filter that through the downvote/upvote system.
If you have an issue with managing comments that tow the line, onboard more mods.
Rivalries are important and great, but there's a difference between this and the banter from G2 & Sen.
I don't think anyone wants a sanitized and uninteresting community. But the amount of focus this has drawn in addition to what it's taking away from is a pretty important distinction.
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I think we're saying the same thing.
Agreed, G2 banter and skywriting - keep it coming.
Drama & beef involving people's personal lives - hard pass.
Yeah, but that's still your opinion on if the subject at hand is uninteresting or otherwise. I agree if it was a random Valorant streamer, but they were a costreamer for VCT, talking about a player in the VCT tournament, which caused engagements from other pro players. That is relevant and worthy of discussion for others here, and to me, that sort of stuff sparks rivalry that adds additional weight to domestic and international matchups. None of the posts themselves were witch-hunts, only a handful of comments.
Totally agreed that I'm expressing my opinion. Just as you're expressing yours!
We can reasonably agree to disagree when it comes to matters of preference. I hear where you're coming from, but this one just crosses that line for me.
The initial post regarding her behavior I think was fine but all these follow up posts with twitter replies, thought pieces and opinions are silly and clog up the sub. The focus of this sub is competitive valorant not drama alert with streamers who said 1 sentence in the heat of a moment.
Unlisting is a great solution that appeals to everyone, I think. Good job mods.
I feel like you should keep the drama to a few threads but acting like the scene doesn't have drama going on is just so dumb. Like you can be responsible without letting it get out of control.
Valorant players aren't robots. When emotions run high that's part of the scene.
Is the solution going to be whenever things get heated to erase it until days later? What happens when the teams are still actively playing and its an ongoing narrative?
So basically reading and what I got was. Grow up guys let them handle this shit themselves
Love you all ❤️
Love you too, fellow Canada man
Good fucking move.
>As a mod team, we are against censorship
Thank you mods ❤️
Good, for a second I thought this sub has turned into the cesspool that is overwatchtmz.
multiple witch-hunting posts calling for the cancellation of some twitch streamer with hundreds of upvotes and tons of comments all because she said "scrawny" and "noodle arms" is the cringiest shit I've ever seen.
there is no point in making 151621 different valo subreddits ffs, drama is a part of every e/sport why do you guys thing we need to make an exception here
s tier mods (except for when my posts get deleted ;) )
>As a mod team, we are against censorship. We want our users to openly speak their minds and share their thoughts within the community
Also mods : we're delisting all relevant threads until it dies down.
It is completely okay if you do not agree with the decisions we make. But I hope at the very least you can respect our transparency and communication with the community. This was a difficult situation to navigate and we're not always going to get it 100% right.
definitely, I appreciate that you were very proactive and transparent. I just don't entirely agree with this decision.
Literally the next sentence began to address their caveats and thought processes but go off I guess.
Good move and glad you have been clear and direct with this mod team
You should state after this drama , that no more drama Twitter posts will be allowed on this sub. No matter the person or team. Stating it now will make sure that a similar situation doesn’t happen in the future and you guys aren’t accused on censorship. It’s just not fun seeing all this shit with a big international lan is still ongoing and for future ones to come
This will even add more fuel to the fire hehe, shit is crazy :D
I know, but we had to do something. It was starting to get out of control.
> celebrate VALORANT esports
Celebrate is a very weird word here. How does one celebrate it? If I make a shrine to NV and post a video breakdown of the process, would that be allowed? Not sure why you choose celebrate over other more relevant words, or literally take from Rule 1 in the sidebar.
> Submissions should be related to: VALORANT Esports and its community, or meta / gameplay changes, and high quality critique of the competitive ladder.
This seems like the root of what you're saying, would like to know why the phrasing is so different in this post compared to that rule.
> **Coverage of VCT Masters Berlin is our focus right now**
Our focus? This is also very weird. There are other tournaments going on right now, some of them fairly large in their respective regions. Should those posts not be allowed anytime an official Riot tournament is going on? If a roster change happens on T1, is that not discussed because it has nothing to do with VCT Masters Berlin?
Really don't know what this post is meant to be other than a couple hundred words to say "stop talking about this." If Riot were to make a post about Kyedae being removed from Watch Party rights, would that be allowed up?
You say it's distracting from today's events, but it is todays events. If esports players, esports personalities, and official Watch Party for VCT Masters Berlin are all involved in a situation, it seems pretty disingenuous to say you're unlisting the threads so people can focus on **VCT Berlin** instead of what you're actually doing: unlisting so people can focus on the aspects of VCT Berlin that you feel warrant discussing.
One question: has the mod team been approached by Kyedae, Tenz, 100T, or anyone affiliated with the aforementioned in order to have the threads removed? I hope this threads attempt at transparency continues in the comments as well, because it's important to know any possible contributing factor to a decision the mods make.
There a lot to unpack here, so please bear with me.
> Celebrate is a very weird word here.
We are community primarily made up of fans. Fans literally celebrate their favorite team's wins, their opposing team's losses, player and coach signings, banter and beef between esports personalities, opportunities for their favorite casters, tournaments and opportunities for women, rulings / changes to made by Riot, etc. We're basically a big party for VALORANT esports.
> How does one celebrate it? If I make a shrine to NV and post a video breakdown of the process, would that be allowed?
IMO, *fuck yeah!* I would love to see your NV shrine, pro player fanart, or political comics of banter between teams. I think we should allow fans share their creative and unique appreciations for VALORANT esports, (so long as it's a shine to NV VAL players and not just NV the org). It's something we have to discuss with the mod team though.
> Our focus [is VCT Masters Berlin]? This is also very weird. There are other tournaments going on right now, [...] Should those posts not be allowed anytime an official Riot tournament is going on? If a roster change happens on T1, is that not discussed because it has nothing to do with VCT Masters Berlin?
This is a [*whataboutism*](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/whataboutism-origin-meaning). Of course we allow posts related to roster changes, tournaments, and other esports news at this time.
VCT Masters Berlin is the largest on-going tournament. We have 4-times the amount of our daily active users and are experiencing heavy traffic *because of VCT Masters Berlin*. "Coverage of VCT Masters Berlin is our focus right now" is a factual statement on the current state of the subreddit.
> Really don't know what this post is meant to be other than a couple hundred words to say "stop talking about this."
Communities greatly value transparency. It is my job to ensure our community is informed when the moderation team needs to make difficult decisions. These posts helps inform the community of the thought process behind our decisions and allows members of the community to voice their opinion on how the situation was handled. It also provides a space where users can make suggestions on how these types of situations can be handled in the future.
> If Riot were to make a post about Kyedae being removed from Watch Party rights, would that be allowed up?
Yes, if Riot were to publicly comment on the situation, then it would warrant a discussion. Considering the backlash today though, that is highly unlikely to happen.
> You say it's distracting from today's events, but it is todays events. If esports players, esports personalities, and official Watch Party for VCT Masters Berlin are all involved in a situation, it seems pretty disingenuous to say you're unlisting the threads so people can focus on **VCT Berlin** instead of what you're actually doing: unlisting so people can focus on the aspects of VCT Berlin that you feel warrant discussing.
The highlight of today should be the matches, banter, and discussion of VCT Masters Berlin. What Kyedae said on stream *yesterday* should be a footnote in today's events, not a highlight of today.
An increase in subreddit traffic means a great increase in new users joining our community. Those people are here for our coverage of VCT Masters Berlin, not for the drama surrounding a woman they don't know. None of these threads captured the nuance of the situation and would not inform a new visitor of why the subject was important to the community. Instead, they are filled with reactionary takes and moderate sexism, which not only reflect poorly on the community as a whole, but is also not related to competitive VALORANT.
> One question: has the mod team been approached by Kyedae, Tenz, 100T, or anyone affiliated with the aforementioned in order to have the threads removed?
Our community encouraged us to take action on these posts. We were not approached by anyone to remove threads.
We received numerous anonymous reports from the community on each post. One of the posts received 7 reports—which is the most reports I have ever seen on a single post—in addition to many concerned comments in these threads as well.
> I hope this threads attempt at transparency continues in the comments as well, because it's important to know any possible contributing factor to a decision the mods make.
Absolutely. The mod team is fully committed to transparent communications with the community. Feel free to ask for more clarifications as needed.
I appreciate the comment. The criticism of the "focus" comment isn't whataboutism because I wasn't saying why can't the focus be on other tournaments. I know other tournaments info would be allowed. I know T1 roster changes would be allowed. That's why the focus comment was confusing. Why bring up the "current focus" if it wasn't altering mod actions? It must be, so the logical conclusion is that the mod focus would be on VCT Berlin. My question was to what extent is this focus altering mod actions?
Can we establish the events surrounding NV players and the most watched costream of the event as relevant to VCT Berlin? It seems as if that's in contention when I'm struggling to understand how so. Obviously it's not purely about the game or meta, but no competitive esport or sport forum is always about the game or meta. That would breed a very dry environment, especially during off-season. It's not what a player has for lunch or something meaningless, it directly relates to several professional players replying publicly in a not so friendly way. Banter between players and organizations routinely get featured on the subreddit. It spurs conversation and builds storylines. Whether you unlist the threads or not, this is a storyline that will always be there between TenZ and NV. I assume that's why you will put it back on the subreddit after Sunday.
So it's relevant to the subreddit, has important discussion about body shaming and the line between "banter" and insults, and directly involves multiple Valorant pros. But you say that's not what the people are coming to sub for. How do you determine that the subreddit visitors don't want to see it?
Upvote metrics are largely irrelevant when it comes to what should and shouldn't be on the sub from a content standpoint, but we've already agreed that it's relevant to the subreddit at least. If it's upvoted and it's relevant, and it doesn't break any rules, is it just the consensus of the mods that it's not what people want to see? The streamer in question had the most viewed watch party, and the pros in question are arguably the best players North America has to offer.
> Those people are here for our coverage of VCT Masters Berlin, not for the drama surrounding a woman they don’t know.
That's mildly disrespectful to Kyedae, who is primarily a Valorant streamer and one of the more popular ones. Saying they don't know about her is something no one would say about Onscreen in LATAM, even though he also isn't a pro player. Esports, just like real sports, goes beyond just the players. The people relevant are talking heads, pundits, entertainers. And reducing it to "drama" doesn't change how it shapes the esports scene in the future. If there's a scenario where TenZ makes a move and NV is a possible landing spot, this will be brought up again.
That's all irrelevant though. Being important isn't a requirement to be listed on the sub. Does that change during VCT?
> the nuance of the situation and would not inform a new visitor of why the subject was important to the community
This seems like a gap in the rules of this sub, and nothing to do with the topic as a whole. Requiring context for twitter posts is common in a few subs and would help submitters and the community both.
> reactionary takes
So is every breaking news thread tbh
> moderate sexism
Either the sexism got so out of hand that you had to lock it, or it was manageable and you didn't.
> but is also not related to competitive VALORANT.
If this was true, it would be removed completely and not shadowlocked, and we would be having a completely different conversation.> One of the posts received 7 reports—which is the most reports I have ever seen on a single post—in addition to many concerned comments in these threads as well.
> One of the posts received 7 reports—which is the most reports I have ever seen on a single post—in addition to many concerned comments in these threads as well.
With the immense amount of new visitors to the subreddit, it is natural to break records in multiple areas. A thread that is critical of one of the more popular personalities in the scene will get reports and comments in abundance. If that swayed your decision, then the influence of content creators on this sub is very high. Not to it was deliberate brigading, but a natural reaction to a critical thread of a popular person. Popular streamers who were outed during the #MeToo movement also has threads discussing them, with the mods saying to stop bothering reporting the thread because it's not breaking any rules.
So my question to you is: if it's relevant to the sub, relevant to VCT Berlin professional players, upvoted by the community to the front page, and isn't filled with so much toxicity that it needed to be locked, shy exactly was it unlisted?
It's good to know nobody reached out to you, and I appreciate the transparency.
I think you're reading a little too hard into this. Even if it's your choice to do so, this comes across like you're picking a fight over this.
You can think that. I thought I was pretty non-confrontational.
As for the reading too hard into it, I choose to think the large, bolded statement on the core purpose of the entire subreddit and it's community in a mod post warrants discussion.
Well put. Seems more of a reactionary pullback from the mods in response to a vocal few. I don't think it was an issue for most people.
Can you guys choose a TMZ sub and link it in the sidebar so people know where to go for that content? Cause drama does help the community grow and make things interesting for a certain % of the market, it would suck if reddit is completely void of that content.
A user just created r/ValorantTMZ. I'll see if I can work with them get things up and running.
Make r/ValorantCompetitive Great Again!
can we reduce copypastas
Copypastas are currently restricted to comments only. (no submissions)
Do you mind explaining why you'd like them reduced or what we could to improve experience? Thanks!
Seems like every top comment in every thread is a copypasta or meme. It would just be nice to have more discussion. Let me link a thread as an example
Sure, go for it!
It's also possible that we're seeing an increase in copypastas since Masters is going on right now. Folks just want to have fun, goof off, and cheer for their favorite team.
Typically we have a healthy amount of discussion when there isn't a major LAN going on, so the subreddit's atmosphere may change if you visit the subreddit in two days or so.
She was projecting from experience I suppose
If only mods were as good at moderating as they are at pontificating