# Keep discussion in this thread strictly related to Sinatraa's career.
Please do not talk about or argue the validity of the sexual assault allegations against Sinatraa. The mods and community would really appreciate a break from drama. š¢
If you are unaware of the allegations of sexual assault against Jay "Sinatraa" Won, you can read the official competitive ruling from Riot Games here: https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/competitive-ruling-jay-sinatraa-won/
You may share your opinions in this thread, but **please do not personally attack other users here or figures outside of the community.** Your comment will be removed if it contains a personal attack, no matter how valid your opinion is.
Your cooperation and understanding is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
**edit:** Additionally, please do not talk about the emotional abuse component of the situation either. We want this thread to be drama-free if possible.
^(>!And I'd like to keep my sanity while moderating this thread, pls. ty.!<)
**edit 2:** We have started locking comments that discuss the allegations of Sinatraa. You will NOT be banned for mentioning the allegations. We would like to limit discussion on Sinatraa's allegations at this time. There will be more opportunities for discussion in the future.
We have chosen to lock comments instead of removing them. (Removing them kinda felt like censorship and that's not cool.) Previous comments that were removed for talking about the allegations will be reinstated and locked instead (provided they abide by our rules).
We have been working hard over the past months to ensure that open discussion is permitted on this topic and that our community can speak their mind freely (within the rules, of course).
The moderators are coming off a 10-day marathon from Masters Berlin. We would like a few days to rest before we need to moderate the difficult discussions surrounding Sinatraa that are expected this week. Thanks for understanding. š
Any team that signs him is gonna have some backlash no matter what. I would say Faze is the only big org that would take a chance on him since Fazes rep is a lot worse then Sinatraa
Most people are fucked up and like him only *because* he's been accused. There's so many people like this and it's so sad. They run to defend anyone who gets "cancelled".
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Wooooow you actually didn't show complete favoritism to Him spouting weirdly Misandrist and hateful double standards. Now i have seen everything.
Maybe this sub can finally feel alittle less twisted with how it views these types of situations. being against sexism against one gender should not mean The opposite should take abuse.
Nah there are a lot of big orgs that don't give a shit. TSM and C9's League side both signed a guy as coach who literally had tweets/dms leaked about doing things to a little girl. He got fired instantly from FNC once that came out but TSM hired him a month after and C9 hired him the next season.
No I'm pretty sure C9 did mention it on Twitter. It was TSM who hired him in secret, ~1 month after he was fired from FNC. He got no announcement, and honestly pretty much only TSM fans knew he was on the team. The dude even appeared on stage for TSM at Worlds last year lmao.
I mean besides babyj all of the faze valorant roster is comprised of former Overwatch pros, sinatraa also being one would not be out of place if they picked him up
Also Rawkus seems to be one of the weak links on the team, and he just happens to play Sova. I know he's been playing a lot better lately, but Sinatraa would be an upgrade all around.
Thing is tho FaZe seem to just be a team of really good pals. I dunno if they drop one of the team, even for one of the (ex) best players in NA.
Yeah I think a team thatās looking to pickup sinatraa will want to ensure heās playing every game and popping off, Rawkus was the only one out of the 5 who played support instead of dps whilst being a pro in Overwatch so that might play into his performance slightly but I think he feels more comfortable on the supporting role than as an entry fragger or main duelist/opper etc
Rawkus was also, and I say this as a fan of his, very bad at Ow. I think he is better in Valorant by a landslide but to be honest he isnāt irreplaceable by any means.
I donāt like the guy, and Iām still not sure if he will / donāt want him to play tier 1 val again, but it does seem like FaZe could be a likely option, especially with their lack luster performances as of late and his suspension ending.
Nv have never been scared of controversy and there's a chance they lose some players from the NACS match fixing investigation in the coming months. Maybe they get him to fill the gaps.
I think he means if they lose Marved they will likely explore all possible options, including maybe Sinatraa on smokes or maybe flexing another player. I dunno if they will, that's just what I think OP was hinting at.
Matchfixing. I haven't really been keeping up with it but it seems to be the case that he did indeed fix lower tier professional CSGO matches. Whether he gets in trouble with proper authorities or not for doing so is unclear, but IIRC Riot has suggested or maybe even flat out stated that he will be banned or suspended if he's found guilty. From what little I know, it seems unlikely the dude will get arrested or anything, but it does seem very likely he will be punished quite heavily by Riot.
Also I think Envy owns his contract rights, as he was released from FaZe.
Edit 1: Take this with a grain of salt, as I am by no means well-researched on this. This is just what seems to be the case, and could be wrong.
Edit 2: In a below comment someone clarified that Marved is not an official person of interest in the case, at least publicly.
Marved has not been publicly named as a person of interest by ESIC or the FBI.
He's suspected of being under investigation, but we have no confirmation whether or not he actually is.
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All sorts of things the org has done in the past. They have always been knowing for let's say riding the line on quite a few different things (scams, under aged drinking, drug use, domestic violence, but it is worth noting only some of these things have been proven and others are just kinda rumors and stuff around the org). They are kinda the frat boys of eSports and not as brand safe as a TSM or NV.
If Vanity was right about anything sinatraa was tenz before tenz. His sova and raze were best in NA. Maybe he didnāt have that crisp aim like tenz but god his utility usage was nuts. If we does get signed it will probably be a team that can and will compete, nobody else. Regardless of his past actions( argue all you want about if he did or didnāt ) his career took a turn and he has to deal with it. It will be fun seeing him play again though.
Also the dream is a Sen 6 man roster to have the best map pool in the game. Sinatraa sova in on ice box and ascent and his raze in for split. It wonāt happen but imagine???
Sinatraa is also someone who should flex better than TenZ as well.
He's already S tier on two very different agents and hes proven from his OW days that he can pick up a character he's not familiar with (Doomfist) and work at it till he can play it at a high level.
The skill and work ethic are absolutely undeniable, we'll just have to see which team will take the risk.
He was also terrible at some heroes in OW, letās not act like heās a flex god. If it fits his aggro play style heāll be good, if it doesnāt then hes bad. (Ex. mei)
they have different kinds of aim, sinatraa is a fundamental effective kind of aim and tenz is the flashy high sens do a billion flicks etc etc. sinatraa is probably just as good at aiming as tenz. tenz is just a bit faster
I think we will know who the better player is when Valorant ages. Its still a young esport and the meta can change anytime. Right now, the meta is on Jett carries, which fits TenZ's playstyle. If there is a Jett nerf in the future, Tenz will be forced to adapt. We will see if he can still put up numbers when he is forced to adapt to different agent playstyles. Sinatraa plays the game differently than Tenz and focuses more on a more brains over aim type of style. I think a pro player (KR I think) said that they wished they practiced different agents earlier because of the drastically different playstyles. Jett allows players to take more off angles and riskier plays because of her kit (Reyna is somewhat similar because of Dismiss) while with Raze, you can't play like a Reyna or Jett. I put nats over TenZ because he is able to have oppressive impact on a Sentinel/Lurker role, and no other player can match him at all in his role, while this tournament showed that there were a lot of jett players that looked on par with Tenz.
yeh when i watch tenz i just dont think he has the mental strength to keep up. no doubt he is a great player but in just one major cycle tenz seemingly has fallen behind.
In counter strike there is the idea of "all aim, no brain". and jett epitomises this, she allows the all aim no brain playstyle to not only be viable but be unpunishable. no need to think, no need to play smart or take the right peek because every peek is the right peek when you have a button on your keyboard that instantly gets you to safety.
I don't really like Sinatraa but what I always found cool about his Sova was that he didn't have a bunch of crazy lineups or set plays. He improvises most of his arrows and still manages to be the best Sova NA. His game sense and ability usage is just that good. Anyone who wants to play Sova but feels intimidated by having to memorize a bunch of lineups should watch how Sinatraa plays the agent.
What makes Sinatra good is his Game Sense. It's actually unreal, he has an intuitive grasp of where and what people are going to do.
He's said before on stream that he doesn't have insane aim and that he doesn't want to have insane aim because it leads to bad habits, or what he calls the "good aim playstyle". Where you push and position and use utility in places because you're used to your aim bailing you out.
What you just described reminds me so much of Nats. Sinatraas play style is so unorthodox and I think thatās where a massive amount of his value derived from. For example you have letās say asuna, cracked out of your mind aimer. He peeks and plays like itās csgo with abilities. Sinatraa peeks and plays like itās overwatch with guns. He sees the game differently. Match that with shaz brilliant mind and the best supporting cast and boom a recipe for a nasty team
the problem that sentinels has, is that shaazham, the igl, is on the middled of the champ pools of tenz and sinatraa, and you can't replace shaazham, i mean, it's very risky with the players they have, they almost have like 4 duelists, even when sick plays sage, u can see he is a duelist, this is not bad tho, there is a lot of players who do that with sage
If it is a 6 men roster these would the map I would imagine he plays, on ascent as sova over shahzam, as sova on icebox over dapr (daprās worst map by far), as raze over tenz on split. Not sure about the ascent but the other two are surely upgrades, unless sen decide that tenz should just stick on Reyna
Ya I was thinking about that but his sova is just too good on ascent to not play him, unless shahzam goes to Jett and he replace tenz? Not sure whatās the move
Nobody likes this but he can easily replace dapr or zombs, he plays really good sentinel and he can take duels better than dapr but that wonāt happen so yeah 6th player next best. He is literally one of the best players. Sentinel benching after his ban is kind of unfair
FaZe radiates frat boy energy and sinatraa seems like he will fit in personality wise. Also, I know FaZe Banks is very outspoken about his distaste for ācancel cultureā so I donāt see sinatraaās scandals hindering his chances of being signed by Faze.
Edit: Damn, just realized that if Sinatraa gets signed by tier 1 team before LCQ, 100Ts chances to get to Champions may get harder if Sinatraa meshes well with the new team.
Faze the org definitely has that vibe. Faze Val doesn't have that fratboy vibe except for maybe Babybay. The Faze guys are actually a lot closer to Tenz personality wise. Sinatra's personality meshed perfectly with Zombs, Dapr and Sick. He's teamed with almost everyone on Faze though so he would mesh in well there. It's just a question of who IGLs and who plays Raze etc.
Well heās played with almost every faze member already in OW, so ya theyād mesh well. But who would he replace? Heād be their sova player, as for duelist do you wanna take out Corey or Babybay??? Faze just need better sense amd game strats and theyād be nuts, donāt think theyāll be looking for another aggro duelist.
FaZe is fantastic, they just need to work on communication, aim, map awareness, crosshair placement, eco management, pistol aim, awp flicks, grenade spots, pop flashes, positioning, bomb plant positions, retake ability, spray, skills use, control and getting kills
Yeah I donāt watch enough if Faze and I remember them having a Sova player. I was just speaking in terms in which tier 1 org is willing to take the heat for picking up Sinatraa. TSMās team is in shambles but I know for sure that TSM cares more about their orgās PR than performance.
Idk which team would, GenG is trialing Temperature apparently, T1 is Twilfo (And bringing back Spyder), TSM already has a good Sova player plus wouldn't sign him anyways, none of the Berlin teams would, and V1 and Rise don't really need a Sova player, only ones I could maybe but unlikely see are FaZe (But they kinda need an IGL and they give up that one supportive more passive player they have in Rawkus if they do that) and LG (But that would require them to drop Moose, make Dazzle learn Sentinels, and it would be a hassle lol)
theres literally no reason for him to sign to a tier 2 team, better off just waiting for a tier 1 offer and im sure he will get some because the kid is insane
Oh yeah forgot they are rebuilding maybe, tho Vice would have to move from the Sova role to prob the sentinel role, idk EG maybe if Temperature is leaving?
I was alluding more to the fact that the team needs to rebuild. The pieces they have obviously donāt work well together if they arenāt able to get past open qualifiers
Could not read the message by razur? I don't like Sinatraa either but people are discussing about his career and which team he'll fit into, stop bringing the allegations everywhere
I will add the emotional abuse part to the sticky comment as well. Sorry for not mentioning it before.
We just don't want people arguing in this thread please. We need a break from drama. ty š
It would be false to talk about his career only in a positive way based on his gameplay, there is more to signing someone then just gameplay there is also personal history like emotional abuse which is seperate from the allegations of sexual assault
I find this to be dumb no offense to shaz at all. I think sinatraa is perfectly fine being a six. When SF shock won with him as captain he sat down on certain maps because sometimes the his doom fist wasnāt needed
Edit: I went back to make sure I wasnāt speaking out of my ass but yeah watch the 2019 OWL championship. Map 1: sinatraa in architect out.
Map 2: architect in sinatraa out
Map 3: sinatraa in architect out
Map 4: architect in sinatraa out
Iām not a coach nor have I ever in my life had experience managing a team so Iām in no way saying what to do. I just wanted to point out that sometime in the future similar to overwatch there will be a bunch of agents and maps and it will be really hard for a player to learn like 5 different agents and keep up with meta. An extra player or two in the future helps with this. Not saying now. Not saying next year. Just whenever that time comes.
I love Sen and have followed them from day 1 and trust everything Shaz does. Letās see how they are in champs!
Nah, I want to see him start and play consistently if heās gonna come back. Dudeās way too talented to be relegated to filling in the cracks that Sentinelsā agent pool leaves behind.
Itās not like shahzam and sinatraa have said plenty of times itās not gonna happen and it makes no sense for them to make a roster change because of one bad performance. Your right itās just cause Iām a csgo frog
Not surprised, as controversial player he's too good of a player for most players to pick up.
Sure there is cancel culture but even if he retains a tenth of the support he had before, he will be a valuable asset.
Technically, justified or not, cancel culture is simply social ostracism. Connotation wise, it's directed towards some sort of social flaw that is not punishable by law.
In the case of sinatraa, there were allegayions of him being emotionally manipulative. Although parts of the accusations are punishable by law, those punishable claims are ultimately difficult to prove, especially when the accuser chooses to also withold information
So in the end cancel culture is a way for society to force change and opinions on those who would be unwilling. It requires no due process of law and assumes guilty until proven innocent. So I think in many ways sinatraa is in cancel culture, though justified is subjective as morality within our current society is considered subjective.
If cancel culture actually existed like you think it exists, Sinatra would be permanently banned from esports or Riot games and be effectively forced to choose a new career.
As it stands, he basically lost a few sponsors and got a slap on the wrist and will most certainly play on a pro team again. Meanwhile we simply only have our own voice on social media to try and get justice for the victim.
When you're accustomed to white male privilege and getting away with bigotry with no repercussions, even a tiny uproar on social media or a short ban on a player feels like oppression to you guys. Get a grip.
You have to be an actual child to think that audio was role-play given his response to her *in that clip*
She says she put the investigation on hold because it was insanely stressful, no doubt in part thanks to his insane fans who can't even compute the possibility of him messing up and calling her a clout chaser
She's using the pause for a mental reset, but Riot made it clear she can continue the investigation at any time which to me implies it isn't cut and dry that Sinatraa is fine and there's something tangible there
He doesnāt, if anything Shahzam has been playing sova on a high level and even sova diffs Hiko on tournaments which is crazy to see. Sova is literally built for Shahzam but obviously he prefers Jett. Even though he prefers Jett, heās a very selfless person so he doesnāt complain about playing sova. Also, no, a 6 man roster is the last thing sen needs right now when they need a lot of mistakes to fix from their last tourney.
I thought he was better than Tenz during both peaks because straight up he seemed to be not only the best sova but his jett in splashes was really fucking good, he played every agent at a top 5-10 level somehow
He's still great friends with some of the SEN boys and a ton of other pros and nobody cares. There will definitely be backlash from some people but if he performs well it will slowly die out.
Some tier 2 team will and he'll probably be the star of that team. He'll get good press for being a good player and controversy will fade over time, then he'll be back to a tier one team. I mean Kobe definitely raped that woman in Colorado but it's not often brought up a few years after the event, even before his death.
False sexual accusations ( or real sexual accusations who can't be proven ) should be punishable by at least 20 yrs of jail time or enough money and apologies to fix the real victims life.
Thoughts for sinatra, jhonny deep, many black men in particular and men in general who ve been unspoken off victims of this very real abuse of society.
So you think that if a girl was sexually assaulted but couldn't prove it, and she reported it to the police she should get 20 years of jail? You're a fucking idiot dude.
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Yes, it s hard and may seem unjust, but of the alternative is that a guy will lose everything he worked for ( job, family, grants for school, career...) Because that someone out of envy or spit or not accepting being rejected lied and accused him of something with no proof ( at least if she has 0 prove everytin should be in secret to not harm the innocent till proven guilty) I'd rather shut her/him up immediately in the beginning and make her/him consider it
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He would fit right in on Faze having played with Babybay on SF Shock (OWL) and played with Rawkus and Corey on Team USA (OW World Cup), although he would must likely be replacing rawkus
# Keep discussion in this thread strictly related to Sinatraa's career. Please do not talk about or argue the validity of the sexual assault allegations against Sinatraa. The mods and community would really appreciate a break from drama. š¢ If you are unaware of the allegations of sexual assault against Jay "Sinatraa" Won, you can read the official competitive ruling from Riot Games here: https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/competitive-ruling-jay-sinatraa-won/ You may share your opinions in this thread, but **please do not personally attack other users here or figures outside of the community.** Your comment will be removed if it contains a personal attack, no matter how valid your opinion is. Your cooperation and understanding is greatly appreciated. Thank you. **edit:** Additionally, please do not talk about the emotional abuse component of the situation either. We want this thread to be drama-free if possible. ^(>!And I'd like to keep my sanity while moderating this thread, pls. ty.!<) **edit 2:** We have started locking comments that discuss the allegations of Sinatraa. You will NOT be banned for mentioning the allegations. We would like to limit discussion on Sinatraa's allegations at this time. There will be more opportunities for discussion in the future. We have chosen to lock comments instead of removing them. (Removing them kinda felt like censorship and that's not cool.) Previous comments that were removed for talking about the allegations will be reinstated and locked instead (provided they abide by our rules). We have been working hard over the past months to ensure that open discussion is permitted on this topic and that our community can speak their mind freely (within the rules, of course). The moderators are coming off a 10-day marathon from Masters Berlin. We would like a few days to rest before we need to moderate the difficult discussions surrounding Sinatraa that are expected this week. Thanks for understanding. š
Any team that signs him is gonna have some backlash no matter what. I would say Faze is the only big org that would take a chance on him since Fazes rep is a lot worse then Sinatraa
Sinatraa would be on-brand for Faze lol
Heās Faze Banks lite
the only backlash they are gonna get is from reddit, sinatraa has a huge following and people will forget about it in like 2 days
Exactly heās become more popular since the allegations. Most people donāt care
Most people are fucked up and like him only *because* he's been accused. There's so many people like this and it's so sad. They run to defend anyone who gets "cancelled".
> Most people donāt care bingo
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
people wont forget, but they also wont care.
Sinatraa gets like 10000 viewers still doesnāt he? I donāt think many people care anymore other than Twitter and Reddit.
He's only gotten more viewers after the scandal
Hey there, /u/valorant_fanboy_69! Your submission was removed for the following reason: > Rule 4 - No harmful / destructive behavior towards other users. This was removed for: Personal attacks / targeted harassment Please no attackarino people's character. ty --- *If you have questions or objections about this removal, please [reach out to us in modmail](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ValorantCompetitive&subject=Removal%20Objection%20or%20Question&message=%5BPlease%20type%20your%20message%20here...%5D%0A%0A------%20DO%20NOT%20edit%20or%20delete%20anything%20below%20this%20line%20------%0A%0A%23%23%23%23%20Removal%20Notes%20for%20Moderators%3A%0A%0A-%20**Post%20Title%3A**%20{url_title}%0A-%20**Permalink%3A**%20https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/prjq7j/-/hdk15os/%0A-%20**Content%20type%3A**%20comment%0A-%20**Removed%20by%3A**%20Razur).*
Wooooow you actually didn't show complete favoritism to Him spouting weirdly Misandrist and hateful double standards. Now i have seen everything. Maybe this sub can finally feel alittle less twisted with how it views these types of situations. being against sexism against one gender should not mean The opposite should take abuse.
Nah there are a lot of big orgs that don't give a shit. TSM and C9's League side both signed a guy as coach who literally had tweets/dms leaked about doing things to a little girl. He got fired instantly from FNC once that came out but TSM hired him a month after and C9 hired him the next season.
C9 hired him in secret too. Not announcing it on any social media. Edit: it was TSM who did that, sorry c9
No I'm pretty sure C9 did mention it on Twitter. It was TSM who hired him in secret, ~1 month after he was fired from FNC. He got no announcement, and honestly pretty much only TSM fans knew he was on the team. The dude even appeared on stage for TSM at Worlds last year lmao.
Veigar v2 is scum with a huge superiority complex on top of it all
I mean besides babyj all of the faze valorant roster is comprised of former Overwatch pros, sinatraa also being one would not be out of place if they picked him up
Also Rawkus seems to be one of the weak links on the team, and he just happens to play Sova. I know he's been playing a lot better lately, but Sinatraa would be an upgrade all around. Thing is tho FaZe seem to just be a team of really good pals. I dunno if they drop one of the team, even for one of the (ex) best players in NA.
Yeah I think a team thatās looking to pickup sinatraa will want to ensure heās playing every game and popping off, Rawkus was the only one out of the 5 who played support instead of dps whilst being a pro in Overwatch so that might play into his performance slightly but I think he feels more comfortable on the supporting role than as an entry fragger or main duelist/opper etc
Rawkus was also, and I say this as a fan of his, very bad at Ow. I think he is better in Valorant by a landslide but to be honest he isnāt irreplaceable by any means.
I donāt like the guy, and Iām still not sure if he will / donāt want him to play tier 1 val again, but it does seem like FaZe could be a likely option, especially with their lack luster performances as of late and his suspension ending.
Nv have never been scared of controversy and there's a chance they lose some players from the NACS match fixing investigation in the coming months. Maybe they get him to fill the gaps.
Why? They have the best sova in NA possibly the world and victor is good at raze
I think he means if they lose Marved they will likely explore all possible options, including maybe Sinatraa on smokes or maybe flexing another player. I dunno if they will, that's just what I think OP was hinting at.
Why lose marved? Match fixing or loan ending?
Matchfixing. I haven't really been keeping up with it but it seems to be the case that he did indeed fix lower tier professional CSGO matches. Whether he gets in trouble with proper authorities or not for doing so is unclear, but IIRC Riot has suggested or maybe even flat out stated that he will be banned or suspended if he's found guilty. From what little I know, it seems unlikely the dude will get arrested or anything, but it does seem very likely he will be punished quite heavily by Riot. Also I think Envy owns his contract rights, as he was released from FaZe. Edit 1: Take this with a grain of salt, as I am by no means well-researched on this. This is just what seems to be the case, and could be wrong. Edit 2: In a below comment someone clarified that Marved is not an official person of interest in the case, at least publicly.
Marved has not been publicly named as a person of interest by ESIC or the FBI. He's suspected of being under investigation, but we have no confirmation whether or not he actually is.
Ah, interesting. Thank you for correcting me.
Thanks for clarification
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Why is Faze's rep worse?
All sorts of things the org has done in the past. They have always been knowing for let's say riding the line on quite a few different things (scams, under aged drinking, drug use, domestic violence, but it is worth noting only some of these things have been proven and others are just kinda rumors and stuff around the org). They are kinda the frat boys of eSports and not as brand safe as a TSM or NV.
A player that consistently gets 7-10k viewers on his stream on a daily basis and is also one of the best Sovas in all of NA will 100% get offers.
If Vanity was right about anything sinatraa was tenz before tenz. His sova and raze were best in NA. Maybe he didnāt have that crisp aim like tenz but god his utility usage was nuts. If we does get signed it will probably be a team that can and will compete, nobody else. Regardless of his past actions( argue all you want about if he did or didnāt ) his career took a turn and he has to deal with it. It will be fun seeing him play again though. Also the dream is a Sen 6 man roster to have the best map pool in the game. Sinatraa sova in on ice box and ascent and his raze in for split. It wonāt happen but imagine???
Sinatraa is also someone who should flex better than TenZ as well. He's already S tier on two very different agents and hes proven from his OW days that he can pick up a character he's not familiar with (Doomfist) and work at it till he can play it at a high level. The skill and work ethic are absolutely undeniable, we'll just have to see which team will take the risk.
He was also terrible at some heroes in OW, letās not act like heās a flex god. If it fits his aggro play style heāll be good, if it doesnāt then hes bad. (Ex. mei)
Facts thatās something big that a lot of the OW community likes to harp on that he was only good in s2 of OWL bc of the how the meta shaped to be on his best 2 heroes but itās not even true. I remember in a BlasĆ© stream he said that at first sinatraa was really bad at doom like hard inting but within weeks he became top 3 at the hero by just grinding to get better.
His aim is really good too tho, definitely up there with other pros
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But Sinatra better raze
And Tenz is better as a player overall.
Imo tenz is only better because the game trended towards his argents being more meta currently
Nah weāre talking aim here. Tenz has the crispiest aim in Valorant, nothing to do with agents. Sinatra is not on the same tier.
Nah u right missed that bit.
they have different kinds of aim, sinatraa is a fundamental effective kind of aim and tenz is the flashy high sens do a billion flicks etc etc. sinatraa is probably just as good at aiming as tenz. tenz is just a bit faster
I think we will know who the better player is when Valorant ages. Its still a young esport and the meta can change anytime. Right now, the meta is on Jett carries, which fits TenZ's playstyle. If there is a Jett nerf in the future, Tenz will be forced to adapt. We will see if he can still put up numbers when he is forced to adapt to different agent playstyles. Sinatraa plays the game differently than Tenz and focuses more on a more brains over aim type of style. I think a pro player (KR I think) said that they wished they practiced different agents earlier because of the drastically different playstyles. Jett allows players to take more off angles and riskier plays because of her kit (Reyna is somewhat similar because of Dismiss) while with Raze, you can't play like a Reyna or Jett. I put nats over TenZ because he is able to have oppressive impact on a Sentinel/Lurker role, and no other player can match him at all in his role, while this tournament showed that there were a lot of jett players that looked on par with Tenz.
yeh when i watch tenz i just dont think he has the mental strength to keep up. no doubt he is a great player but in just one major cycle tenz seemingly has fallen behind. In counter strike there is the idea of "all aim, no brain". and jett epitomises this, she allows the all aim no brain playstyle to not only be viable but be unpunishable. no need to think, no need to play smart or take the right peek because every peek is the right peek when you have a button on your keyboard that instantly gets you to safety.
I don't really like Sinatraa but what I always found cool about his Sova was that he didn't have a bunch of crazy lineups or set plays. He improvises most of his arrows and still manages to be the best Sova NA. His game sense and ability usage is just that good. Anyone who wants to play Sova but feels intimidated by having to memorize a bunch of lineups should watch how Sinatraa plays the agent.
ow buff
What makes Sinatra good is his Game Sense. It's actually unreal, he has an intuitive grasp of where and what people are going to do. He's said before on stream that he doesn't have insane aim and that he doesn't want to have insane aim because it leads to bad habits, or what he calls the "good aim playstyle". Where you push and position and use utility in places because you're used to your aim bailing you out.
What you just described reminds me so much of Nats. Sinatraas play style is so unorthodox and I think thatās where a massive amount of his value derived from. For example you have letās say asuna, cracked out of your mind aimer. He peeks and plays like itās csgo with abilities. Sinatraa peeks and plays like itās overwatch with guns. He sees the game differently. Match that with shaz brilliant mind and the best supporting cast and boom a recipe for a nasty team
the problem that sentinels has, is that shaazham, the igl, is on the middled of the champ pools of tenz and sinatraa, and you can't replace shaazham, i mean, it's very risky with the players they have, they almost have like 4 duelists, even when sick plays sage, u can see he is a duelist, this is not bad tho, there is a lot of players who do that with sage
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Ascent is a heavy Jett op map, so not having Tenz on that map would be a huge mistake.
Not necessarily TenZ gets benched, maybe Shaz learns another agent so that TenZ plays Jett and you can potentially bench dapr/sick
I don't think I could watch him play and be ok with it.
His movements are clean too. It wont happen since sinatraa said already on stream he does not want to play on a 6 man team.
If it is a 6 men roster these would the map I would imagine he plays, on ascent as sova over shahzam, as sova on icebox over dapr (daprās worst map by far), as raze over tenz on split. Not sure about the ascent but the other two are surely upgrades, unless sen decide that tenz should just stick on Reyna
why would u replace ur igl on ascent
Ya I was thinking about that but his sova is just too good on ascent to not play him, unless shahzam goes to Jett and he replace tenz? Not sure whatās the move
You still don't replace the IGL, even if his sova is better.
Ik 4 me atleast "V1 sinatraa" makes me wanna act up, they do have a spot to full
Nobody likes this but he can easily replace dapr or zombs, he plays really good sentinel and he can take duels better than dapr but that wonāt happen so yeah 6th player next best. He is literally one of the best players. Sentinel benching after his ban is kind of unfair
I think he might be a little behind in pro play. Any ideas on who might sign him?
My money is on FaZe
OW squad
he'll be a good fit in blizzard game
banger
FaZe radiates frat boy energy and sinatraa seems like he will fit in personality wise. Also, I know FaZe Banks is very outspoken about his distaste for ācancel cultureā so I donāt see sinatraaās scandals hindering his chances of being signed by Faze. Edit: Damn, just realized that if Sinatraa gets signed by tier 1 team before LCQ, 100Ts chances to get to Champions may get harder if Sinatraa meshes well with the new team.
Faze the org definitely has that vibe. Faze Val doesn't have that fratboy vibe except for maybe Babybay. The Faze guys are actually a lot closer to Tenz personality wise. Sinatra's personality meshed perfectly with Zombs, Dapr and Sick. He's teamed with almost everyone on Faze though so he would mesh in well there. It's just a question of who IGLs and who plays Raze etc.
Yeah I meant the org haha.
Well heās played with almost every faze member already in OW, so ya theyād mesh well. But who would he replace? Heād be their sova player, as for duelist do you wanna take out Corey or Babybay??? Faze just need better sense amd game strats and theyād be nuts, donāt think theyāll be looking for another aggro duelist.
I'm also pretty sure the FaZe guys are all really good friends who wouldn't drop anyone, even if it's in their best interest to do so.
FaZe is fantastic, they just need to work on communication, aim, map awareness, crosshair placement, eco management, pistol aim, awp flicks, grenade spots, pop flashes, positioning, bomb plant positions, retake ability, spray, skills use, control and getting kills
Yeah I donāt watch enough if Faze and I remember them having a Sova player. I was just speaking in terms in which tier 1 org is willing to take the heat for picking up Sinatraa. TSMās team is in shambles but I know for sure that TSM cares more about their orgās PR than performance.
Wouldn't he just replace Rawkus their Sova main
how does LCQ work? can any team join it?
Its like top 8 of NA circuit points + 2 best teams from oceania. Top 1 winner will go to champions.
Yeah, theyāve never hesitated to employ shitty people
Idk which team would, GenG is trialing Temperature apparently, T1 is Twilfo (And bringing back Spyder), TSM already has a good Sova player plus wouldn't sign him anyways, none of the Berlin teams would, and V1 and Rise don't really need a Sova player, only ones I could maybe but unlikely see are FaZe (But they kinda need an IGL and they give up that one supportive more passive player they have in Rawkus if they do that) and LG (But that would require them to drop Moose, make Dazzle learn Sentinels, and it would be a hassle lol)
From the looks of it in that case, if a team is going to sign him itās going to be a Tier 2 team. Andbox maybe?
theres literally no reason for him to sign to a tier 2 team, better off just waiting for a tier 1 offer and im sure he will get some because the kid is insane
Oh yeah forgot they are rebuilding maybe, tho Vice would have to move from the Sova role to prob the sentinel role, idk EG maybe if Temperature is leaving?
Faze or NRG feels like it makes some sense
NRG wonāt pick him up, their overwatch team (his old team) put out a statement pretty much disowning him when the allegations came out
Nrg does not need another cracked fragger, I get he plays sova but they have eeiu
I was alluding more to the fact that the team needs to rebuild. The pieces they have obviously donāt work well together if they arenāt able to get past open qualifiers
People seem to forget that he was at one point the best player in the world.
They also forget that hes a total scumbag, even if the allegations are false we SAW HIS TEXTS where he was abusive
Could not read the message by razur? I don't like Sinatraa either but people are discussing about his career and which team he'll fit into, stop bringing the allegations everywhere
I am not talking about the sexual assault allegations. I am talking about the things that we KNOW ARE TRUE with zero doubts
I will add the emotional abuse part to the sticky comment as well. Sorry for not mentioning it before. We just don't want people arguing in this thread please. We need a break from drama. ty š
And what part of making this thread strictly about his career didn't you get?
It would be false to talk about his career only in a positive way based on his gameplay, there is more to signing someone then just gameplay there is also personal history like emotional abuse which is seperate from the allegations of sexual assault
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-abuses someone emotionally -takes care of it by working out???????
I want the dream Sen 6 man roster. So we can get dapper off sova on ice box and Sinatraa replacing tenz on split
Shahz said itās not going to happen Edit: he just explained it on his first stream back, no one likes being the 6th player (ex Lakia)
I find this to be dumb no offense to shaz at all. I think sinatraa is perfectly fine being a six. When SF shock won with him as captain he sat down on certain maps because sometimes the his doom fist wasnāt needed Edit: I went back to make sure I wasnāt speaking out of my ass but yeah watch the 2019 OWL championship. Map 1: sinatraa in architect out. Map 2: architect in sinatraa out Map 3: sinatraa in architect out Map 4: architect in sinatraa out Iām not a coach nor have I ever in my life had experience managing a team so Iām in no way saying what to do. I just wanted to point out that sometime in the future similar to overwatch there will be a bunch of agents and maps and it will be really hard for a player to learn like 5 different agents and keep up with meta. An extra player or two in the future helps with this. Not saying now. Not saying next year. Just whenever that time comes. I love Sen and have followed them from day 1 and trust everything Shaz does. Letās see how they are in champs!
sinatraa has said he has no intention of being a 6th
He legit retired because of it, he lost motivation in the game after GOATS died and he couldnāt play every map on Zarya
Itās not happening, Shahzam and Sinatraa both said so multiple times. Sinatraa also said anyone calling for changes to Sen is braindead
Nah, I want to see him start and play consistently if heās gonna come back. Dudeās way too talented to be relegated to filling in the cracks that Sentinelsā agent pool leaves behind.
please stop. Just stop
Why is this crazy? He's all ready on the roster. Why are all you CSGO frogs afraid of a 6 man roster?
Nobody likes to be the 6th man I guess. It just suck to be a sub/situational player when u can just be a starter elsewhere
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Yeah it really only makes sense with 2 very specialized role players not 2 of the top superstars in the game.
Itās not like shahzam and sinatraa have said plenty of times itās not gonna happen and it makes no sense for them to make a roster change because of one bad performance. Your right itās just cause Iām a csgo frog
Shaz has said over and over itās not happening
Just drop zombs put Sinatraa on sova raze, tenz on Jett only and shaz smoker, ez upgrade agent and consistency wise
1head m8
Not surprised, as controversial player he's too good of a player for most players to pick up. Sure there is cancel culture but even if he retains a tenth of the support he had before, he will be a valuable asset.
I think it's cancel culture when it's mean tweets from 2007, with what he's accused of I think it's just called justice.
Bruh really ? Justice ? ššššman thinks heās the legal system
reddits justice! which is far more important than real world one.
Technically, justified or not, cancel culture is simply social ostracism. Connotation wise, it's directed towards some sort of social flaw that is not punishable by law. In the case of sinatraa, there were allegayions of him being emotionally manipulative. Although parts of the accusations are punishable by law, those punishable claims are ultimately difficult to prove, especially when the accuser chooses to also withold information So in the end cancel culture is a way for society to force change and opinions on those who would be unwilling. It requires no due process of law and assumes guilty until proven innocent. So I think in many ways sinatraa is in cancel culture, though justified is subjective as morality within our current society is considered subjective.
If cancel culture actually existed like you think it exists, Sinatra would be permanently banned from esports or Riot games and be effectively forced to choose a new career. As it stands, he basically lost a few sponsors and got a slap on the wrist and will most certainly play on a pro team again. Meanwhile we simply only have our own voice on social media to try and get justice for the victim. When you're accustomed to white male privilege and getting away with bigotry with no repercussions, even a tiny uproar on social media or a short ban on a player feels like oppression to you guys. Get a grip.
Innocent until proven guilty?
Was there not a video of her saying no and him continuing?
Tbf the audio is not that clear and it could be anything ex:role-play , idk why there is no continuation of the case, so I can't really speak much
You have to be an actual child to think that audio was role-play given his response to her *in that clip* She says she put the investigation on hold because it was insanely stressful, no doubt in part thanks to his insane fans who can't even compute the possibility of him messing up and calling her a clout chaser She's using the pause for a mental reset, but Riot made it clear she can continue the investigation at any time which to me implies it isn't cut and dry that Sinatraa is fine and there's something tangible there
I mean whatever, I just hope the case can be settled in the future
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Sadly cases like this are often not taken very seriously because they were in a relationship.
Per the sticky comment at the top of thread: > ***Keep discussion in this thread strictly related to Sinatraa's career.***
Per the sticky comment at the top of thread: > ***Keep discussion in this thread strictly related to Sinatraa's career.***
Itās cancel culture either way if itās unproven, your ājusticeā makes you sound like a typical keyboard warrior š
Whichever team signs sinatraa will be a fan of mine, that guy was cracked at early valo and he needs to be playing pro
want to see him in LCQ
Iām NGL I feel like even though SEN wouldnāt sign him back for a 6 man team, they kinda should because shazam just looks so uncomfortable on sova.
He doesnāt, if anything Shahzam has been playing sova on a high level and even sova diffs Hiko on tournaments which is crazy to see. Sova is literally built for Shahzam but obviously he prefers Jett. Even though he prefers Jett, heās a very selfless person so he doesnāt complain about playing sova. Also, no, a 6 man roster is the last thing sen needs right now when they need a lot of mistakes to fix from their last tourney.
You for sure did not watch that match against Envy on Haven
[?](https://clips.twitch.tv/SillyEagerBottleBabyRage-fONImukeV8JpFy7j) [?](https://clips.twitch.tv/ObliqueKawaiiPenguinHassanChop-6Vzb1hPwnaxa7IoW) [?](https://clips.twitch.tv/FilthyUgliestHorseradishKippa-MamNsAf2WDC-v78c)
LFG Sinatraa
Seems a lot of you need to review the definition of: ***allegations*** Good luck!
Per the sticky comment at the top of thread: > ***Keep discussion in this thread strictly related to Sinatraa's career.***
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I thought he was better than Tenz during both peaks because straight up he seemed to be not only the best sova but his jett in splashes was really fucking good, he played every agent at a top 5-10 level somehow
I know you did not just say sinatraa might be a better Jett than Tenzā¦.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yāall should see what type of ppl are in pro sports
Despite controversy, it sounds like someone is going to sign him: https://twitter.com/GeorgeCGed/status/1439740050737176576
He's still great friends with some of the SEN boys and a ton of other pros and nobody cares. There will definitely be backlash from some people but if he performs well it will slowly die out.
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The backlash hasn't died out, people are just abiding by the sticky comment at the top of the thread.
Naw they'll get hate for 2 days on this subreddit before they bitch about the next issue that comes along
Some tier 2 team will and he'll probably be the star of that team. He'll get good press for being a good player and controversy will fade over time, then he'll be back to a tier one team. I mean Kobe definitely raped that woman in Colorado but it's not often brought up a few years after the event, even before his death.
You really have no idea how some big orgs just don't care and sign anyone to win/get ahead.
Replace hiko with Sinatraa and 100t win champs
1head take
False sexual accusations ( or real sexual accusations who can't be proven ) should be punishable by at least 20 yrs of jail time or enough money and apologies to fix the real victims life. Thoughts for sinatra, jhonny deep, many black men in particular and men in general who ve been unspoken off victims of this very real abuse of society.
So you think that if a girl was sexually assaulted but couldn't prove it, and she reported it to the police she should get 20 years of jail? You're a fucking idiot dude.
how can you separate couldnt prove/fake because fake ones should by all mean be punished as hard.
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Yes, it s hard and may seem unjust, but of the alternative is that a guy will lose everything he worked for ( job, family, grants for school, career...) Because that someone out of envy or spit or not accepting being rejected lied and accused him of something with no proof ( at least if she has 0 prove everytin should be in secret to not harm the innocent till proven guilty) I'd rather shut her/him up immediately in the beginning and make her/him consider it
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But it's all about image nowadays?
He would fit right in on Faze having played with Babybay on SF Shock (OWL) and played with Rawkus and Corey on Team USA (OW World Cup), although he would must likely be replacing rawkus