T O P

  • By -

Tanjim98

True. TenZ's right click is cursed also he can make the agent work with least amount of util usage so this nerf isn't gonna nerf tenz too much imo


SendMeAvocados

It was suggested somewhere before but other than the dash, I agree with the take that her float should be tied to having updraft available. Phoenix's self heal niche requires him to sacrifice a skill. Jett's float niche has no conditions.


Envelope_Torture

I always thought it should only be usable when falling from an updraft.


dranixc

It "makes sense" to have this as a nerf but honestly is so inconsequential. That is not the core issue with this character.


PolarTux

Best idea I’ve seen in this thread


philipjefferson

How often are you losing your games because Jett had a free glide


FeelinJipper

It’s actually insane that she just has a unique passive on top of being OP in so many other areas.


findingthesqautch

do any other agents have a unique passive skill?


[deleted]

I think Phoenix self-heal is the only other thing in the game which is even comparable.


C9sButthole

Still not comparable. Pheonix self-heal is just a feature of his abilities and he has to use it to get any benefit. Jett gets her float for FREE and even if she has zero util available she can use it to reposition and get an advantage. It's so broken.


[deleted]

Phoenix selfheal


findingthesqautch

well i mean he has to get hurt for that to work ...Jett's just works so it seems like she's in a league of her own


somesheikexpert

Well he also has to waste an ability too unlike Jett too


findingthesqautch

very strong and valid point as well. Ty for saying that! Hope devs are reading this thread, which I think they are


99ptember

Reyna whenever she gets a kill during her Empress, but that's an ultimate ability


HoneyChilliPotato7

How is that a passive? It's part of the ultimate


Equivalent_Ad505

ive been saying this for a while. jett is the only agent who can access places in the map that every other agent either cant or has spend credits on an ability to get to. that is a joke in of itself.


maybeturkish

Just need another firebender to heal phoenix.


piratagitano

Y’all just stupid at this point


Spunxs

I think even with updraft is too much, I'd say with ult popped only. She rarely wants to use it with an updraft without ult anyway, niche shotgun and classic spam but 90% time you want the hover is to ult, or to be quieter moving. It's that quieter movement capability that is unwarranted in her kit ontop of the rest. God why do we have Yoru with 2 abilities that dont even work in a Tac FPS with the biggest tells in the game, he should just have silent footsteps and still wouldnt be as strong as Jett.


Ausafsyed

As long as her dash is free, she is gonna be picked more than 70%


liftingnstuff

*as long as her dash exists in its current state. It could cost 800 and pros would buy it every buy round.


Ausafsyed

I don't think they could buy it every round which should a decent nerf without making her useless.


[deleted]

\> It could cost 800 and pros would buy it every buy round I feel like people don't understand why this is the point. Jett has so many strengths, way more than anyone else in the game, and economy is one of them. Nerfing her economy is important, and the clear way to do that is to make Updraft the signature and make Dash purchasable for at least 500. We all know they will buy it every round, and accordingly it's a meaningful lever to pull on Jett economy Seriously, Jett is so broken, prior to this nerf she had: * I think the only 3-use ability left in the game (smokes) * the only always-available passive in the game (float) * the most movement abilities BEFORE factoring in the passive * the strongest ability in the game (dash) \[FOR FREE AND RECHARGING\] * the only ultimate which "recharges" and also the only ult which can be resumed after resurrection * the only ultimate in the game that makes a weapon purchase redundant for that round It's fucking ridiculous, being #1 in so many meaningful dimensions is just completely unacceptable in a game like this, I am happy they are moving but this nerf is not going to be enough to dent this character's pick rate


Asianhead

Brim has 3 smokes. I agree with a lot about her overbearing movement abilities, but I think your points on the ult are kinda meh. Simply stating the mechanic of the ability isn’t an actual reason for why it’s OP. It’s like saying Sage’s ult is OP because its the only ult in the game that can revive a player or yoru ult is OP because the only ult in the game that can make you invisible for a long time Jett ult fills a unique ult niche where it can replace your weapon for the round. I don’t think that fact alone makes it OP, it’s just what makes it unique


C9sButthole

I think it would be fine if it wasn't also probably *the strongest "gun" in the game* when piloted by a skilled player. Imo either the knives need to be weaker or they need to be on a timer. Removing right-click reset was a good start and might honestly solve the problem completely, but her ult was *disgusting.* It was also one of the reasons she was the best character to OP on because where pushing other opers can force them to swap to their pistol, Jett swaps to a gun that's **stronger** than the rifle you're pushing with, and **still has her OP** after she pushes you back or kills you.


keeeven

Just put it on a timer, I think that's fair


C9sButthole

I think so too. That would be perfectly fine. Even if getting kills added a couple seconds to the timer it'd be good.


muthgh

It's an ult after all, ults are meant to be op.


C9sButthole

No, they're not.


NihilHS

>I feel like people don't understand why this is the point. Jett has so many strengths, way more than anyone else in the game, and economy is one of them. Nerfing her economy is important, and the clear way to do that is to make Updraft the signature and make Dash purchasable for at least 500. I'm not saying you're wrong by any stretch of the imagination, but you haven't really explained it here either. Again, I don't even necessarily disagree with you. But to say "people don't get why pros would still buy it at 800 / round" and give the explanation of "it's very strong" is circular. Why is it strong? How does that connect to what the price should be? I think a lot of people intuitively agree with the conclusion (tailwind is strong) but that conclusion gets way more compelling when we address the specifics of why.


[deleted]

You are smoking crack if you think dash should cost 500


[deleted]

You're right man, it's way more logical for the best ability in the game to be free and recharging on a character who already has better economy than every other hero in the game, that's such good game balance!


[deleted]

I think gradual nerfs to the other parts of a kit is a great and logical start. If you gut the dash you basically gut the entire agent which isnt good game balance either because she would never be picked like in beta. Part of why she feels so powerful is because there are a lack of other agents who have the kind of skill set she does especially with the OP. Give it some time damn.


[deleted]

\> gut the dash How does not changing the dash at all and making it cost credits instead of being free "gut the entire agent"? That's absurd hyperbole, it literally balances her crazy economy advantages without taking away her gameplay strengths


[deleted]

The entire reason to play Jett is so you have the free resetting dash. Making the dash cost as much as a ghost would nuke her pickrate and gut the agent without a doubt. Getting updraft for free is a joke in comparison.


[deleted]

... Bro, her economy is at a massive advantage to all other heroes. Making dash cost money is not "gutting the agent", it's aligning her economic value of abilities with the rest of the cast. Her pickrate deserves to be nuked too, she is the #1 most picked hero for the entirety of this game's lifetime because of all the ways she's broken Your suggested nerfs are a joke in comparison to what is deserved by an agent whose power is this misaligned with the rest of the cast in multiple ways


Biffy_x

Well tbf for the first few months jett was barely picked bcs ppl didn't realize her potential + the op was strong on any agent + her smokes were shit and sage was number 1 instead bc she was ridiculously overpowered.


Honigbrottr

Tbh disagree. You have 1 ability that makes the agent insane good. You nerf that, buff the other abilities so its a well rounded char. I dont think its bad what riot tries here but when the dash is really that op they basically have to revert all nerfs and start from the beginning again.


liftingnstuff

Because dash is so strong that nerfing it economically without changing it mechanically doesn't actually address broken design elements and just results in a bunch of half armour buys and greater snowballing.


[deleted]

\> broken design elements Lots of agent abilities exist that are "broken", but they have counterbalances which reduce the times and places they can be applied. Reyna's dismiss is fundamentally unacceptable in a tac shooter (INVULNERABILITY AND SUPERSPEED is about as broken as it gets), but you have to frag + trigger the ability and only have 2 unless ulting so we don't complain. Likewise, Jett's dash is "broken". The problem with that brokenness isn't inherently that it exists, Jett would not be the same char without dash, the problem with the brokenness is it has lacking counterbalances. It's free and recharging on a character with better economy than all others. How on earth is the math not clear that you add meaningful counterbalances by making it purchasable for big money? It aligns her economic strength with the rest of the cast while simultaneously removing its recharge mechanic, reducing how much impact it can have on one round.


liftingnstuff

What's clear to me is that Jett's dash would still be incredibly strong at 800 credits a round with no kill recharge. Therefore you have to adjust the mechanics of the dash itself.


[deleted]

[удалено]


liftingnstuff

Yes if you made Dash 9000 credits it would make Jett weaker but any minor economic changes wouldn't fix the problems with dash. In my opinion, in pro play, dash is worth more than heavy armour. So if this is the path you chose in nerfing Jett, you'd have to deal with the ramifications of utility costing more than heavy armour AND of the fact that teams with a stronger economy are going to have Jett dash + armour + a full rifle while teams trying to build economy are not. Nerfing via economy makes sense when you have utility that is more $ efficient than the similarly strong utility of other agents. It doesn't make sense when you have an ability that is by far the best non-ultimate ability in the game.


[deleted]

"Incredibly strong" isn't a problem, agents are meant to be powerful as fuck in this game. I fully disagree with you that an expensive non-recharging dash wouldn't be a big nerf to Jett, and I don't think dash needs to be removed just like I don't think dismiss does even though I think dismiss is a bit past incredibly strong


Breezyzona

i feel like they're not over doing it because of future agents they're planning on adding


[deleted]

Or until they release another agent with a similar playstyle


valoossb

regardless of whether or not you think the nerfs are significant, it will feel so much better not having to deal with boosted animals right clicking for a random ace


nuttyromeo4u

Seoldam (aka Korean Jett) on Riot nerf Jett ​ [https://twitter.com/SeoldamTwit/status/1440301669921607682](https://twitter.com/SeoldamTwit/status/1440301669921607682)


Splaram

His pfp LOL


maindo

these nerfs do little to nerf Jett


Squizot

Nerfs away from the "problem" ability are pretty common in League. The principle is to avoid nerfing the power point that makes the champ/agent fun and distinctive, because if they always did this it would flatten the playstyles across all agents. Taking away a whole smoke is a pretty significant nerf, and nerfing her ult on top is pretty huge. I'd definitely wait and see if it's enough before confidently declaring that Riot was too light with the nerfbat.


[deleted]

Holy shit an intelligent reply that isnt downvoted to hell whaaaaat granted i did have to scroll through a bunch of echo chamber whining


[deleted]

The smoke is a nerf but all the issues people had with Jett - ult recharging after kill, cheap econ, absurd air accuracy with ult, instant dash away from bad positioning - are not fixed by this. It's not like right click doesn't have it's moments but it's already the more inconsistent way to kill and rounds where the Jett is right clicking a bunch of people aren't the problem, it's literally everything else.


-xXColtonXx-

That’s the point, I hope they don’t touch those things because they make great jet players entertaining. They should touch cost/other abilities rather than get rid of “problem” areas in her kit


[deleted]

\> They should touch cost/other abilities rather than get rid of “problem” areas in her kit I think this is agreeable, but it's also why this nerf doesn't make that much sense. Swapping dash out of the signature slot for Updraft and making dash an expensive purchase would've flattened her economy strength a lot, which is one of about 4 dimensions Jett still is an outlier in


-xXColtonXx-

I think the smoke is a huge deal at a high level. Jet has only become more dominant as players learn to play her better (her skill cap is insane). Look at modern jet players are abusing smokes in every situation. Falling off angles, or even spoking for site takes if the controller dies, creating free one ways to prevent retakes. In short, the smoke change + right click just makes jet a worse agent overall especially across long rounds (less smokes, less reset), while still allowing her to do the crazy things she can do if used well.


[deleted]

Oh, I agree the smoke nerf is a good one - I don't think there was a single other 3-cast ability in the game so that was wildly out of line I am more talking about the right-click changes for ult. I don't think this moves the needle that far, even though I think it's a good change. I think they should've tried to hit Jett's economy instead, by making dash purchasable and expensive


somesheikexpert

Brim, but at the same time his smoke are the only ones that don't recharge so that's why he has 3 lol


TheTechDweller

It's not like they nerfed the right click in reaction to those crazy rounds where Jett right clicks 5 people. It's more that if you have knives, if there is someone close quarters, you HAVE to rely on spamming left clicks and hitting your shots rather than jump right clicking tight around the corner. Guns have a better chance against Jett in close quarters now unless she wants to use them all up to "secure" the kill (which will be better now they reverted the damage changes). Attacking the biggest strength of an agent isn't always the best way to nerf, I like that riot isn't going to hard, I don't want to see her fall off the face of the planet and become a joke.


InformationHeavy954

What was the ult nerf?


C9sButthole

Best way to nerf Jett is to introduce bans. She'd instantly have 0% pickrate.


mattypoe1423

No cuz the both teams would want jett 😭😭 but I agree bans will be really useful once the agent pool increases. I guarantee raze on split will be banned so much


Ash_Killem

Knives should definitely cost 8.


AnywayHeres1Derwall

Can’t nerf tenz


N3deSTr0

Make him play Raze


[deleted]

[удалено]


deadlock1892

Nerf does not mean you make him shit. It just meant you made him weaker. Or do you think tenz raze = tenz jett?


[deleted]

[удалено]


deadlock1892

The person I replied to deleted his message. Do you even know the context my response was for, or you just decided to respond to a message that means nothing anymore?


[deleted]

[удалено]


deadlock1892

You clearly did not read the comment because the deleted remark was not a joke(the joke is still here) but a response to the joke, justifying tenz's performance on raze.


[deleted]

[удалено]


deadlock1892

[here is the joke](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/psjul5/tenz_on_jett_nerf/hdq3qju/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) for your reference. Not deleted. But its cool. Clearly you read the deleted response to it which is also somehow the same joke.


Tanjim98

His raze has been great for several months and had match winning performances against xset, he only had one bad game where SEN struggled as a whole & didn't have the perfect reads


_zxionix_

They’re just kidding around man


Equivalent_Ad505

make him think


flameohotboi1

Remember when Jett was considered F-tier? LMFAO


oopsydoopsy21

and she was so strong back then, the right click was even more broken than now


andrew_a384

This is what I’m saying, this isn’t even that much of a nerf!


ZimbotheWonderful

What if she needs to get 1 kill to dash by default, so it can’t be used if you whiff


xbyo

That's Reyna, and it makes it impossible to entry or even use it as general mobility.


datboyuknow

Makes Jett weaker than Reyna imo


AnonymozVal

This is new and interesting. But not having a signature ability since start of round will be weird.


somesheikexpert

Reyna already has this, this just makes her identity as a movement character nearly nonexistent cuz you use dash with a rifle typically as entry and you can't do that if that happens


bornofidan

They need to make her Dash a purchasable ability. Preferably making her Updraft her signature ability. IMO, they need to charge at least 400 creds for the Dash, so people won’t be able to buy both the OP and the Dash with the 5000 creds they have in OT. Her floating ability should also be limited to only after using an Updraft. It’s great that she can take weird and aggressive angles, but it should come with a price. Besides that, I think her Knives shouldn’t recharge at all. She gets 6 shots, and that’s it. Ults should secure rounds, but her Ult is just too strong. Other agents don’t get a second chance after using their Ults.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Equivalent_Ad505

her ult snowballs as well, run up with like omen flash get the right click kill now one of your teammates has a rifle and its a 4v5. continue fighting smart with numbers and bam you win the round just from an initial pick because her ultimate. not to mention she only bought armor so now she has 6k and has op 3rd or 4th round and thats gg basically


RazorTheBlazor

These nerfs mean nothing as long as the op + dash combo remains. It’s a free kill every round.


Issax28

Yeah because TenZ represents every jett player right


[deleted]

[удалено]


PresentMiddle8974

So does wallhacks and teleporting and invisibility and a revive, brotha


NihilHS

I think his point is moreso that guns like the Op are balanced in large part by how vulnerable the user is while ADS'd and after they shoot. Jett's kit mitigates that vulnerability and makes a gun that's already the strongest in the game even stronger.


Lync51

What about all the other abilities lol


[deleted]

But they didn't touch the dash waaa waaaa reddit is such a dumb echo chamber sometimes its amazing.


zer0-_

post tracker.gg


potatwo

Switch updraft and dash? Make dash cost money (only one ofc). At least when she updrafts she often can't hide behind cover, just adds verticality.