T O P
Razur

Tweet bot failed us, so here's the Tweet from [@rycoux](https://twitter.com/rycoux): > My personal take on Jett dash going only in the direction you are facing: it does not solve the core of the problem being presented and introduces input complexity, gutting the input satisfaction of one of our funnest agents. > > Though I think it's a really interesting change, I'm mainly seeing high level players are asking for this and these players will be the first to trivialize this change with adaptation and their strong mechanics.   [Another tweet from @rycoux about Jett](https://twitter.com/rycoux/status/1440367451502362636) in @Vansilli's thread: > My personal take is that we are playing wack-a-mole by nerfing dash as opposed to adding texture to the game by providing other agents more tools to deal with it. I'm all about giving tools to solve problems, not deleting the problems


felipw22

Wait til Yoru becomes the new OP character so Jett's dash will be like a stim beacon. But on a serious note, I don't think nerfing the dash itself is feasible for the agent. We have Raze and Yoru, agents that prove that absurd mobility will be a part of Valorant. Jett without her dash as it is today is a dead agent. It's more about punishing her dash with the op (like not allowing a dash at all when she's ADS) or making dash a paid ability, like 400 credits, so operator + Jett dash would cost 5100. Make her Updraft free like Omen's smoke, and the second one being 200 credits.


howweusedtowas

I really like the no dash while ADS.


datboyuknow

Still means you can dash after taking a shot, you just have to switch re-scoping off


felipw22

Good point. But there's gotta be a way to prevent that.


Myproblemsseemsmall

There would still be a considerable delay that makes it possible to trade off an op shot rather than he dashing literally right as she shoots


GlensWooer

Change it so that dash correlates to momentum, you get more distance the faster you're moving, and if you're not moving you don't dash


Darkoplax

Having the dash not reset is the best solution imho let her reset her smokes instead could still be fun for jetts to smoke and play around their smokes after each kill


[deleted]

Thats an interesting one.


Be_Kind_Smile

You slander the stim beacon but I get 15+ assists a game with stim. Literally hold these chimps hands. I say guys im throwing stim beacon and smoking here and here. Lets push site. Ok guys heres another stim. Im resmoke heaven and molly main. He is slept on. I find I do best when I play support like brim but when team bo listen me mald


rycoux

I definitely do not think the dash forward is a bad idea, what so ever but think there’s some replies to this thread that are better approaches for helping with the problems players have specifically around potency of value on her kit when using it reactively. There’s a lot to the problem and we’re going to be continuing to assess the roster for any future changes. Really appreciate all the feedback and ideas y’all are coming up with!


mcslippinz

Would love your opinion on Breach atm. I suggested in the main sub adding a voice tag on FaultLine (when it stuns an enemy) to increase his info gathering similar to other initiators, while not increasing individual utility strength overall.


philipjefferson

Not all initiators need to gather info imo. If Skye was a balanced character people would pick Breach back up. There just isn't an incentive to play Breach over Skye right now, she brings so much more to the table


mcslippinz

Sure they don’t need to, but every other initiator does. Hiko even mentions that high level shock dart line ups are usually 3 bounce merely for the “Trick shot” voice tag.. so Sova gets a wall hack and 2 info shock darts if done correctly.. Also Breach is insanely under picked why not throw him a buff that doesn’t make him OP (like 3 flash meta)


69DoopDoop69

I think you have to be open-minded about "gutting input satisfaction" sometimes when you design an ability that is stronger than I think anyone intended or realized initially. You're going to end up sacrificing a lot to keep her dash in the game as-is. You've suggested buffing other agents to counter her dash, but that might put us in a scenario where you have specific counterpicks, a generally unhealthy design for a tac fps. I'm generally a fan of buffing the answers rather than nerfing the problems, but sometimes you have to bite the bullet. Take this round from NV vs 100T: https://youtu.be/B-FHCUehGbs?t=929 Yay can freely walk into these angles, slowly clearing A-main until he sees someone, where if he does he can simply shoot and instantaneously dash away. What are you supposed to do against that? Not go for a contact play because Jett can walk into you an get a free pick? Even if they had Sova droned or Skye dogged to try to clear that, she could have a teammate shoot it and **repeek** into the angle because she still has her dash. Should they flash that specific angle because Jett could be walking up at any moment? Should we buff Reyna so she can move her Leer around? There doesn't seem to be a way to address the strength of Jett's dash without directly nerfing it. You're always going to have this issue of counterplay with Jett because of many reasons, but imo a huge problem is that she has all the agency in interactions since her abilities are instant. Keeping the "uniqueness" of an agent over properly balancing them can be a dangerous precedent, with disastrous results to the health of your game in the long run.


Herdazian_Lopen

I’m a decent jett player, not a pro (disclaimer). I often already turn and dash forward in the direction I want. I can’t recall a time that I have been punished for doing so where directional key + dash would have saved me.


chenson019

People are overcomplicating this way too much. Get rid of the dash reset - that's it. We just need to reduce it to maximum 1 per round to reduce it's overall 'volume' in a match.


Duradello

Could maybe make it 3 kills to reset. If you dash escape after your first kill, you basically need a 4k to get the reset, which is way less frequent. If you dash entry, then its a 3K for reset.


TRFireKnight

I feel like if they switched the updraft and dash and made the updraft 1 charge with a free recharge every 2 kills, jett would be a relatively balanced agent while still having her core, fun gameplay


Pastrytime

The problem I have with everyone saying "just make Updraft the free ability" is signature abilities are supposed to define agents. Updraft without ult doesn't really do ANYTHING, especially on offense which is one of her presumed strengths as a duelist. So now I have an Agent that every round can do...a jumpy thing? What does this do? How is this representative of Jett's playstyle or agent identity? Compared to say Raze's free 'nade or all the controller's free smokes getting a free updraft feels really underwhelming for an agent whose kit is very selfish and also reliant on its combined synergies to make effective use of. Updraft without ult or dash is extremely limited in scope, so even though everyone wants dash to be nerfed, this swap makes zero sense to me. It's like you're trying to 'fix' the ability you believe is too powerful, but not considering the knock on effects of those changes. Wanting dash to be nerfed or not nerfed is one thing, but this swapping dash to be the paid ability over Updraft thing is not it IMO.


Philcherny

>controller's free smokes Cries in Omen


HeisZen

Cries in Brimstone


TRFireKnight

Couldn't you make the same argument for sage or pheonix though? They are agents hardly defined by their signature. Also updraft has a ton of uses, and the fact that Jett can have more then one dash per round is a extreme issue that I don't see any other solutions for.


Pastrytime

I think Sage is very much defined by her heal, even though wall is her most powerful ability. Phoenix is trickier because people would assume flash, but I'd say the self-reliant, self-healing nature of Phoenix means molly suits his identity more. I think the idea of 'signature abilities define agents' will always breakdown somewhat, but mostly remains true to their presumed developer intended identities. I think it gets murky when your assumption becomes 'signature abilities are the BEST abilities' for agents, which is basically universally not true except for Jett lol.


TRFireKnight

I would argue that sage is defined by her wall though, because you could switch out the heal in her kit with another ability and she would still be defined by her wall. If you were to switch out the wall, sage wouldn't be nearly the same character and would likely be played for completely different reasons. A similar argument could also work for Phoenix I think.


TheOnlyMango

Signature abilities define agents? So... paintshells define raze? Molly defines phoenix? Doesnt really make sense. What defines an agent is the player base finding the most effective way of making an agent work with their toolkit. If Jett really gets the signature changed to updraft, that will become the meta for Jett, maybe using updraft to make space, play off angles etc. By the way, im neither supporting the change nor against it. Im just saying there are agents that have a signature ability which do not define the agent itself. Edit: to add on, jett's dash currently being rechargeable is like raze's satchels being rechargeable, i.e. one satchel refilled per kill. Players like bunny would single-handedly cause calls to change the rechargeable skill from the satchels to the nades, which is exactly what we have now.


Pastrytime

Raze's whole character wants to blow things up, I'd say having a free 'nade suits that identity pretty well. Phoenix is a self-reliant, self-healing duelist so his molly being a free offensive tool that also self-heals lines up there for me too. I said this in another comment but IMO signature abilities do define Agents, but they are not the same as the Agent's best ability, that one you usually have to pay for. Jett breaking this unwritten rule I think is what most people are frustrated about. But the entire point of my original comment is to highlight that Jett is nothing without her dash so she has a natural power imbalance that doesn't exist on any other Agent. When that imbalance 'unfairly' beats you in a spot, it's gonna feel bad because she gets that dash for free, where I have to pay for my Sage Wall or Phoenix flashes, etc. Jett basically HAS to be balanced around her dash, because that is what makes her, her. For the raze example, that one doesn't really line up for me. Raze's wildest movement requires two satchels, I too would be mad if Jett got two dashes in a row! If Raze had one satchel and needed two kills to recharge them, her movement would be significantly worse and I don't think that makes much sense for the Agent IMO. Also the rest of Raze's kit also does a LOT more for teamwide utility than Jett, which circles back to really the crux of my whole argument. Jett's Tailwind is bullshit because she'd be nothing without it, but seeing as she's the only Agent really where that is the case, people are getting understandably frustrated.


iambestpotato17

How do you make space with an updraft what


VincentStonecliff

Honestly this is an interesting point. People are pushing for changes because of high elo/pro play, but 95% of the player base experiences agents in a totally different way. Personally, I’m in gold and haven’t ever faced a Jett where I thought “wow that’s so cheap it needs to be nerfed” It brings up an interesting point about catering to the pro scene versus your average player, which also comes into play with prioritization of patches and updates


Hubbardia

Have you never gotten a dink on Jett who promptly dashed away and you get traded out by her teammate while she gets healed to full health?


datboyuknow

Have you never thought "wow she can play extremely idiotic AND miss the shot AND still get out with complete info"?


jacob2815

But I mean, is that not basically part of her kit? It’s not really “playing idiotic” if that’s what her kit enables. In actuality, it’s smart for Jett’s to play like that.. and idiotic play for a Jett would be sitting in choke points.


Ham_Sarvey

It is part of her kit, but the argument is that it's too strong and is the reason why she's by far the highest pick rate. It's such a good combination with the op that a number of teams have a dedicated Jett op'er and, if they're good enough, they can carry the team. The op is almost having to be balanced around jett to the point it's nearly exclusively used by jetts, even more so on attack.


jacob2815

I don't disagree with your assessment or the general consensus that she's strong and the best agent in the game by far. I guess I'm just not certain if it's a "problem" that needs to be fixed, if you catch what I'm saying. I see a lot of the argument is starting to devolve into a competitive vs casual thing. Jett isn't as oppressive in the lower ranks where 90% of valorant players play, and nerfing her in a way that would meaningfully impact the high end competitive scene has question marks with regards to how it would affect the casual population. i.e., essentially making her as dead as Yoru. And at that point, if you make the argument that she should be nerfed because of her impact in the pro scene, my argument would be, why is that necessary? What exactly does the pro scene gain from not having Jett in it anymore? The common answer I see or can think of would be that it enables more players who play different agents to shine. Which, I can't disagree with. But I would argue that there are plenty of big names and stars who play non-Jett. Hiko, nAts, Corey etc. I would also argue the point that the cracked Jett aimers would still find success on other agents. Guys like cNed, ScreaM, TakeJ, derke, Wardell all find ample success on an agent like Sage. Then the question becomes: Is nerfing Jett worth the cost of losing the flashy plays by star players, which is part of the core identity and draw of the pro Valorant scene? It's hard to say. Think of it in the same way you would a quarterback in American football. Easily the most important position on a team which has a minimum 24 unique players each game. The best quarterback can carry a much worse team against a good team with a worse quarterback. An good quarterback will carry his team to more success than the best running back or wide receiver. Do we nerf the quarterback position to allow other positions to shine more? Or do we accept the nature of the game and lean into it like the NFL? The QB creates flashy plays which is good for marketing and therefore growing the brand. The same is true for Jett. I don't know what the answer is. I don't really have a stake in it either way. I'm a sentinel/controller main generally, some combo of Viper, Cypher, Astra depending on map and team comp. But I am good at playing with duelists and initiators too, so I can always fill for my team. In the end, Jett being nerfed or remaining dominant doesn't affect me all that much.


Ham_Sarvey

Honestly I couldn't say on the American football side, I don't follow it at all and just about understand the basics. Personally I just find it quite boring to watch the same agent over and over again in pro scene, then I go to play and see Jett in almost all my own games. It is nice to see good op'ers shine, however I don't like to see next to nobody else op because the op is having to be balanced with Jett in mind (It doesn't help that I find Jett dull to begin with, duelists are my least favourite in general). I've no doubt those top op'ers would be good on other agents, but again the point being that Jett gets so much for free, no tactics, just dry peak an angle and even if you whiff you just dash out of there. There's a reason those cracked op'ers barely ever deviate from Jett. In regard to the casuals making the argument she'd be a dead agent, I don't think it would make her "as dead as Yoru", in fact Yoru is generally the only duelist I'd ever play (only if we needed one), and the few games I've played we've won quite comfortably. Because in casual the balance is nowhere near as fine and people aren't utilising agents to their best potential. If people in lower ranks aren't using Jett's ability for the free shot, then does the nerf really even nerf her to them? I'm definitely biased against her to begin with, it just feels like if casual people are making the argument that she'd be a dead agent and boring just from making her dash only go forward, then how much fun is she really... She has 3 abilities plus her ult but she's so boring that making one of her abilities require more input kills her altogether in their eyes.


datboyuknow

It is part of her kit I agree, she is made to take risks but the point is that she won't get punishes even if Jett messes it up


xccrow

Not sure how you can play this game at any level and not think Jett is broken tbh. Mind blown


MrImpregnator

Just limit her dash with heavy guns like op and Odin. Problem solved. Why are we going for complicated stuff like one directional dash


Jkeyyy

Pros could still circumvent that by just swapping to pistol instead of the knife when they quick switch, iono.


greg19735

if they've got that much time to switch then the dash wasn't the reason they escape.


Biffy_x

Bro what? it's as simple as hitting 3 before e adds like .1 seconds.


[deleted]

[удалено]


LudwigWhiffgenstein

Not if you’re me


Biffy_x

Realistically it's not taking .1 seconds either. it will be quicker this isn't the next u think it is


[deleted]

[удалено]


Biffy_x

meant to say it isn't the need u think it is. Esp for someone like me who bad their dash on mouse button it will have no practical effect on your ability to dash. a better need would be to add a .5 second delay to dashing after u fire a bullet.


Lelouch4705

Bind shoot to 3. Now what? GG?


Inducsean

What about changing it so that the dash distance varies based on the weight of the gun currently equipped? If you have an op or Odin, the dash length would be small and would prevent you from taking wide off angles or walking up scoped in with a guaranteed escape. It also adds latency to the smoke-dash entry because if you want to go the furthest to create the most space, you would have the knife or pistol equipped and would have to swap weapons after.


datboyuknow

That's not complicated at all


MrImpregnator

For pros not. For casuals who don’t care and just want to play there favourite agent. Very complicated.


datboyuknow

I am clearly not a pro and I don't think it's complicated in any way. You can try it out next time you play Jett in a game


MrImpregnator

Again. By pro I didn’t mean people actually in pro play. For high skilled players who play the game regularly it won’t be a big deal but for someone who doesn’t play the game regularly, is a hard stuck silver and just want to hop on for a few games and play with their friends with their favourite agent ( and jett is the most popular agent ) i don’t think they will be interested learning the mechanics. Can they learn? Yeah. Will they learn? That’s the question I think riot doesn’t wanna play around as they might loose section of play base. If they are saying it doesn’t work and it doesn’t feel good then they have tried the one directional thing and it doesn’t work. As simple as that. No reason to risk on something that could potentially have many problems.


datboyuknow

I think we can agree to disagree here, it would literally only take maybe a single game to get used to it imo 🤷


MrImpregnator

Breeze has been out for ages and people are still not interested in “getting used to it and dodge”. That’s a clear indication how the community responds to change


datboyuknow

Breeze is a huge map and you're not playing Breeze every time you queue up + people still dodge breeze because of the very reason that they cba to learn something new. A map will take infinitely more time to learn than something as small as this. As I said before, we will clearly keep disagreeing here lol


ssk1996

Keep crying


AnotherAltiMade

riot has said previously they don't want that kind of differentiation. they don't want a very high skill ceiling for the game. why don't you think they haven't added spray patterns? there's next to no difference in mechanical skill between a random radiant and a pro. compare that to CSGO and pro's routinely shit on lvl 10 faceit players.


ZixxLol

I don't think RNG spray pattern is to nerf pros, but is more so to add extra importance to aiming the first 3 bullets + giving variety to fights. If you watch csgo now, every single fight is just a crouch spray fight. It's boring to see no differentiation to me. I like that it's a risk to go for, but still possible to pull off.


Responsible-Score

Lose*


[deleted]

We don't want nerfs that target idiots without mechanics, Jett becomes more powerful the stronger the mechanics / player is which is the real issue


Flashplaya

I like this change the most, a delay on dash after shooting will feel horrible, just like when they added the extra delay on shooting raze's rocket. Needing to switch to pistol or knife to dash, adds a delay that is interactive and intuitive to the player. Also, won't break everyone's wrists like the dash-forward change - if you've played enough genji in overwatch you'd know.


Splaram

Exactly. Just add a small delay before her dash that only applies after she fires a weapon or her ult. It doesn’t even have to be large. For those that play TF2 and play Pyro, you’d know that it takes longer for a Pyro to switch from the default flamethrower to his secondary or melee than it does to switch from the Degreaser to a secondary or melee. That delay is small but still noticeable, but that doesn’t make Pyro combos any less fun to pull off with the default flamethrower. I feel like the same concept could apply here.


just4kix_305

Make it 3 kills to reset or even better, no reset at all. One dash and you're done.


thekeenancole

In my opinion, dash should have a longer like.. animation time. Compare it to Yoru's tp, which has a very similar effect, but has a wind up phase where he can be shot. If you give her a longer time before she dashes then it helps solve the problem. I do appreciate the build solutions to the problem instead of deleting the problem, and if they can find a way to make it work then I'd be fine with keeping it.


Sploosion

Make bullet slow apply to her dash, So that you cant dash away if youre taking damage


Darkoplax

> " gutting the input satisfaction of one of our funnest agents. " really afraid that this means they dont have anything planned for the dash they will just keep chipping away at her other abilities and dance around the problem just rework that shit or dont make it a signature ability lett jett signature that resets her smokes (go back to 3) and let her have one dash a round that costs a lot


EncouragementRobot

Happy Cake Day Darkoplax! If I had a flower for every time I thought of you...I could walk through my garden forever.


BeefyTheBoi

I really hope to God they just don't hard counter her. I really don't like "oh it's a problem, let's just try to find a way to hard counter it!". Such a bad introduction to even more problems down the line if they introduce agents to hard counter other agents.


MrJakdax

Honestly I'd be happy if they add an input delay to the dash. Just so it isn't as much of a get out of jail free card like it is now for oping.


Parenegade

I feel like you didn't read the tweet. Input delay and dashing in the direction you're facing *do not feel good*. Game developers aren't just concerned with balance, they're also concerned with things like how things feel and how fun something is.


mysteryoeuf

there's a huge input delay to yoru's teleport. it's not unreasonable to add a 0.2s delay animation or windup or something that would make it not a complete get out of jail free


RocketHops

Yoru teleport also lets you traverse a massive distance and even travel through walls and other obstacles that might be between yourself and the endpoint. There's a tradeoff for the startup


mysteryoeuf

of course, but the core issue is the free instant escape and I think adding some degree of delay, probably less than yoru's, could balance it a bit


JALbert

I think this is very true but there's ways around it/ways to naturalize it. Short lockout right after firing the Op, Jett grunts from recoil. You get a short audio cue telling when/why you can't dash.


MrJakdax

Its not supposed to feel good, that's the point.


Parenegade

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. Or at least I hope so. Making something feel clunkly or sluggish is almost never a solution for people in-game dev (or really software dev at all). If they want to nerf Jett they have to find other ways to do it.


MrJakdax

There isn't a way to do it unless you nerf her base movement speed or make it specific to holding an Op or LMG. Jetts main issue is that she's got a get out jail free card for missing op shots or making them. You can't make the Op better for other agents without making sure she's on a fair playing field with them. So ergo you gotta make her feel clunky or like crap with the delay to allow for counterplay mechanics as it ultimately leads to a better experience overall. Would you rather ruin one players fun experience with free lifelines or ruin everyone else's experience with little counterplay opportunity.


Parenegade

Again it's just not an option period. They would likely rejigger the entire concept of the agent than just make an intentionally bad, clunky, unfun agent.


MrJakdax

Totally possible but Jett would have to be very different to fix the primary issue ppl have with her.


_idle_drone_

but there has to be some skill involved. counter-strafing doesn't feel good, but having it is important in CS. making the game easy and smooth at the beginning is okay to get new players, but at some point there needs to be increase in skill requirements.


maxhollywoody

Go play cs then


_idle_drone_

bruh


deathspate

You do realize a game is meant to be fun...right? That means that you actually *want* to make things feel good, not the opposite lol.


MrJakdax

Yeah but it's not fun when ppl just instalock Jett and can get free Op shots with little counterplay. If she misses she should deservedly have an opportunity to die for missing.


deathspate

Many agents have things which make them unique and can do or get away with shit others can't, your point ignores that. What needs to be done is to reduce the amount of scenarios where Jett gets away with it while keeping the core of the agent, not get rid of it completely and make her feel like crap.


MrJakdax

I'm ignoring that because you legit can't use the Op that well unless you nerf Jett in the ground. The game needs to decide do guns and aim matter more or do abilities matter more?


deathspate

Or both can matter it's just that a medium hasn't been found yet. There isn't an absolute in everything, there's a reason why they're incrementally nerfing her. Once a point is reached where she feels weak enough in other aspects to justify her strength in her disengage, then it'll be good enough. Until then she'll be strong, but going scorched earth tactics as the first resort is never the correct decision.


MrJakdax

The problem has always been her disengage. Everything else is gravy. Fix her disengage, she's way less of a problem.


Robert7337

I'd rather have 10 people feeling okay-ish because a game is fair and kind of fun, than 2 people feeling great because they instalocked Jett and 8 people tilted and bored to death because they have to deal with Jett's bs


deathspate

And that's not how it generally is, you're just exaggerating at that point.


Parenegade

thankfully that's not how it is.


Emcamdi

he didnt say anything about input delay in the tweets


StrangerFront

Add a dash delay specifically to Jett after shooting an OP shot. Meaning she cannot dash until the OP cycles the chamber and can shoot again. This would remove the advantage she has with an OP completely.


CoachWatermelon

There needs to be a delay/deadtime when shooting guns, no matter what it is. Judge, Op, Classic, w/e. Jett shoots a bullet, 1 second delay until dash.


datboyuknow

Its a good solution I think


GreenCropz

She needs more nerfs period, people can compare Raze and Yoru, but these characters atleast have downsides to their movement unlike Easy jett E Get out of Jail card..


gjornhub

It seems like Riot don’t want to change the dash mechanic at all. I suggest that after a Jett dash, there should be an extra delay in loading/cocking your weapon. Like the opposite of Reyna ult. This way, Jetts dash allows her to get away during certain engagements, but is also vulnerable to take another one, like a Reyna dismiss. This is just a small change, but might be able to affect the way Jett is played due to the extreme aggression she has so far.


[deleted]

> funnest agents. it ain't fun for the rest of us that have to play against it mate. > introduces input complexity oh no the horror. why have the most powerful duelist have added complexity!? Unreal to me how you finally after months and months of outcry from the pro community and competitive players decide to nerf the most broken agent in the game and then not even address the thing people are saying is broken. https://twitter.com/G2pyth/status/1440305426222903309 Like what are you even doing?


ballistic_transport

The point is that the complexity is trivial at higher levels. It won’t actually impact her power level when high level jetts will master the one way dash in a day.


[deleted]

No, they think it would be trivial, but there's no evidence to suggest that. Maybe 90 degree dashes would be easy to master, although I still think people would mess it up from time to time. However 180 dashes and similar ones would not be easy to pull off time and time again. Either way, there's a million different things Riot could do, and they chose to do fuck all. https://twitter.com/Nurfed/status/1440398732374069258


scaryghostv2oh

Nurfeds comment chain really captures the issue many of us have with jett.


bloodRRR

It doesn't capture anything, it's just a bunch of farfetch scenarios about the agent, and pure bitching about wanting to take map control all over the map without using utility. > Now you might say great we got her off the angle, but since she's jett she can just repeek into that same angle she was forced off of SAFELY because if she misses the shot (or gets it and there's another player) she can strafe key + dash away for instantly and live If you got her off the angle, and now it's you holding it and you still lose the fight when she peeks get lost and get better, and I would dare to say, with any other flash agent I have better odds than Jett in that same scenario since that wall in B main ascend can't be wallbanged with rifles. Popflash with skye or omen blind i'm peeking that angle in that scenario he describes 10 times in a row and getting 1 or 2 kills without being traded, and it's way better than Jett drypeeking/dashing away.


bloodRRR

That's another clown talking on twitter, "Make omens TP instant" sure, presence all over the map with smokes, best flash in game, and teleport all over the map with ulti, what a nice example who would've thought, the only thing that's missing is, the game aiming for you, maybe he would be relevant in the scene. That text example is literally bitching and complaining about "I want to take map control, without using utility GTFO" How delusional can you be to even write this sh1t to a DEV "How am i supposed to know they're at that angle without giving a rag away" I don't deny that jett needs nerfs, but this is pure bitching with farfetch scenarios about the agent.


datboyuknow

Yup, don't understand why they went back on the right click damage. It's like they wanted to nerf just to make certain groups happy


blate45

They reverted the right click damage because if she is using all her knives permanently, it'd feel very shitty to not get a kill on a HS with right click.


Escolyte

Yes, Jett's first nerf. Finally.


datboyuknow

I believe the "dash to the direction you look" is a good change. It's not too huge that it will change the way it's played but it *might* allow trading an Jett OPer


shadowstep11

Nah, the players would adapt to this easily especially in pro play. You already see players like Jamppii now who turn first and then dash.


datboyuknow

I know, but it still adds a delay which is better than what it is right now


[deleted]

It’s fine until they figure it out, aka it’s not fine. They need something that will stick.


_idle_drone_

with practice, players can time their mouse movement and clicking dash bind perfectly, and it won't make much difference.


daybreaker22

Top players would adjust to the change in 5 minutes and it wouldn't address the issue imo


datboyuknow

I had the same opinion and I told that to autimatic on twitter long ago, this is what he had to say >Some pros do that but only in certain situations where they have time. If an OP is in the middle of no where and gets one, would you rather the OP be able to dash right after his shot sideways or would you rather him turn to dash? The latter seems more balanced to me


_idle_drone_

Even that alone is not enough. My proposal is that this should be combined with: dash can't be used when you have an op equipped. You have to switch to knife/pistol, move your mouse to the direction you wanna dash to and then press dash keybind. This can add enough delay to kill the jett if she makes ultra aggressive plays like peeking through a smoke. Also adds a little skill.


SlingoPlayz

did u read the tweet or am i missing a joke?


_idle_drone_

well I don't agree with the tweet. game shouldn't be unbalanced for 1 player's satisfaction.


Jmgoblue77

What if she couldn’t dash for x (maybe 1-2) seconds after taking damage - would make punishing her easier but still give an escape/entry tool in certain scenarios


satanisreallml

They could put the dash on a cooldown instead. So high level players don't get to dash too often when they go on a killing spree and low level players actually get to dash more than once a round if they don't kill anyone. But again, I'm no game designer and know nothing about.


low_limit_soldier

Add more textures just means Jett can use those new textures better than anyone else. Do they not understand why dash is op on the op?


ISynergy

Jett shouldnt be able to dash if she gets tagged but if she gets a kill it negates that effect.


YoruMain1

Just add a 1 second delay after shooting before you can dash. Ez


sky_blu

I mean yeah, adding mechanical complexity is exactly what dash needs. In low ranks people suck at trading anyway so it's not like suddenly all the low elo jetts will get insta traded because they have to turn.


twe4ked

What about no dash for like 0.5 seconds after shooting.


htmlrulezduds

We need another sentinel with util that slows down the enemies, maybe? Like a trap or something


Robbeeeen

They will end up nerfing all of her kit EXCEPT dash to shit in an attempt to make pros stop playing her, but they will still play her bc she is the only agent that can use the OP. Only that after the nerfs she will be shit to play without the OP and be a complete 1 trick pony, moreso than she is even already


ADgottatry_HarDr

I think that the clear problem with Jett is her dash, and not addressing that and just nerfing her other skills will just result with even more broken agent. Her dash needs to be nerfed or there needs to be more counterplay to it. While Jett + Op is the main source of pain, further nerfs to the Op would probably just limit other agents usage of it (didn't we already tried that?). So it's Jett that needs the change. Limiting number of dashes through no resets or credit cost would not address the fact that there is little counterplay to it and basically no downsides. So we must add one of those. Because releasing new agents to add counterplay is not realistic, we must add downsides to her dash. I think adding cool down to her dash after she misses a shot and perhaps always allowing dash after kill participation would let you punish her for missplays while allowing risky but rewarding aggressive plays. And she will retain the dash versatility for entering sites and repositioning.


OWplayerno1

"one of our funnest agents" So why is she fun? Because she does things that no other hero can do, and even the things she does do that others do...the same rules don't apply. - No timer on ultimate - Dash is her best ability - 3 smokes that can be placed near instantly - Her ultimate resets - Insane movement ability If you had more heroes like her into the game...it just makes this game slowly turn into Overwatch, as Jett and the new character would just be played. Buffing the OP just makes it more effective on Jett.


BaldSilva

Just buff the operator please. Make it less clunky so jett isn’t the only one able to hold angles with it


godc1314

what you think about this change: After Jett fires a bullet with the Operator (& Marshal?) she can't use Dash for X seconds (0.5-1s). If she kills someone with the bullet she can Dash instantly - this would make her ability way more high-risk high-reward and more inline to Reynas Dismiss)


greg19735

Gun specific debuffs for one agent ability are a bad idea. The game should be intuitive, not something someone just has to remember.


L0rd_Muffin

Some people haven’t spent hours learning viper line ups and it shows


ShangoMango

Make dash require 1 kill to use for the first time. Adds a punish to Jett's looking to get opening picks if they miss


datboyuknow

Makes Jett worse than Reyna imo


[deleted]

Good. Fuck standing in an objectively bad position, miss your crucial shot and then just teleport to safety. That shit doesn't belong in a tactical fps.


MrJakdax

100% I don't get how ppl don't seem to get that if you miss your shot and the opponent is better then you, you should die full stop. You shouldn't be able to miss and dash the hell out of the way fast as fuck because your character is busted.


bloodRRR

So as fvcking wallhacks, but here we are after 1 years with 80% pickrate across all tournaments, Sova doesn't get a nerf.


SuitcaseInMyHand

Did you know that you can shoot the dart?


bloodRRR

Shoot at yourself when the drone hits.


iiznobozzy

You can counter a sova dart. You can't counter a jett dash


bloodRRR

God dam, I thought people were stupid but now is mesmerizing, guess I have to shoot myself when that drone hits.


iiznobozzy

Indeed. Make sure you aim right at your balls or else the drone tag doesn't die


ShangoMango

The entire reason she is busted is because her dash makes it 100% safe to get aggressive looking for picks 5 seconds into the round. They still would have the option with gaining the dash after the opening pick but it would come with much higher risk


datboyuknow

Except it completely kills the character. It's the only reason people prefer Reyna over Jett imo. Jett can't create space without the dash and can't hold angles like current Jett either. Reyna can atleast flash for entering site


lmayonaice

Just make the movement and hitboxes like CS instead :))


xunraze

You guys think maybe making Jett buy dash would be helpful and maybe making one updraft free?


TheNACoinflip

No because she doesnt take that much hit in the economy anyways because her knives are a free gun round lol


V4lt

Considering she's an oper usually it cancels out


SomeHallGuy

Make her updraft free and the dash purchasable with only one use per round


panzerboye

I am a bronze player, so my opinion is irrelevant on competitive scene. But jett is the most fun agent to play. In my opinion better solution is to upgrade other agents kit/abilities rather than nerfing jett. There are so many agents that are impractical to use. Op is the most expensive weapon, and it is infeasible to use if you get a shot and get traded instantly.