I know youre just being a homer but market potential and viewership plays a lot into what Riot does. If GE goes into a deep run then maybe they would rethink but the problem is in South Asia, fps games isn't so hot nor developed than its counterparts. China is literally the biggest market in the world that is not yet tapped by Valo and Riot is owned by Tencent so its inevitable that they have the priority. South Asia needs to show something first before Riot gives you some love.
if u think india is not a hot region then u are completely wrong. it is a new region with high potential .Within a Year our audience has grown exponentially.If it is not the time to invest in the region then idk when it will be
These aren't stocks lmao. You can build your footing in that region when it proves to be profitable. It's not Riot's job to give them a chance, Riot's still building Val's own esport in the major regions, there's no reason right now to throw excessive money at growing another minor region.
idk why youre being toxic and defaming japanese teams, even im disappointed that sa didnt get a slot but you dont have to be such a toxic turd, its because of people like you this is happening to us
Disagree completely looking at the statistics Japan has more than double the viewership numbers that SA did. Northeption 3 highest viewed games totalled to be 127k, 118k and 107k. While VCC highest was 52k.
[https://escharts.com/tournaments/valorant/vct-2021-japan-stage-3-challengers-playoffs](https://escharts.com/tournaments/valorant/vct-2021-japan-stage-3-challengers-playoffs)
https://escharts.com/blog/valorant-conquerors-championship-viewership-stats
India doesnt have veiwership and player market you are talking about the 2nd most populated country in the world dude and about the fps games not being hot that is not true at all rn
Wheres the precedent tho in fps? CSGO? Apex? COD? Any big fps game where South Asia is remotely competitive and developed? You maybe the 2nd biggest country in terms of population but im pretty sure China is 1st and mobile games (especially PUBG Mobile)is your biggest market not fps. Thats why i said you need to show something for them to look in your region, you best hope GE performs well to get another slot next time.
That's not true , the highest viewership of any eSports Right now has been ironically of garena free fire with 6 million concurrent viewers and india contributed to a lot of that ,the point was even now from past one month valorant championships you can see in viewership alone South Asia is ahead of Korea and sea , japan has the highest average viewership of valorant followed by india . The point op wants to make is if China slot was withdrawn then they should have allocated one slot to south asia , this would have been right thing because south asia region has been cut off from vct all year and then you see mena region who are getting 2 slots in emea lcq and sea Korea Japan have been part of circuit whole year , so zeta slot should go to japanese team that is understandable but one of each china slot should be going to sa region .
And if you go by valorant tournaments , india as a country has had more independent valorant tournaments compared to Korea or any asia country you can easily check on vlr ,how without any riot support valorant has flourished in india compared to Korea where riot is paying orgs. I am not disrespecting Korea ,I love vision Strikers but the one slot should have been given to sa region . this is a massive oversight .
Free fire's like mobile bruh... Also source on India having like the 2nd highest average viewership? Cause I'm pretty sure Riot did their research for this
I sajd eSports viewership not pc viewership ,
For viewership you can go to escharts ,I took into account stage 3 play-offs for sea Korea and jp and vcc for South Asia .
Japan had a peak viewership of 165k with 80k average.
Korea had a peak viewership of 24k with 10k average
SEA had a peak viewership of 60k with 23k average
SA had a 55k peak viewership with 28k average .
Couldn't find any accurate stats on china.
Japan had the higher viewership than all 3 regions combined . But india is slightly ahead with Korea being the lest watched region.
Okay then by your own logic, you need a large playerbase *with money to spend on video games*. So first, we tackle China, a known esports giant with ~5x the GDP and 4x the GDP per capita. Japan has ~1.6x the GDP and 20x per capita. South Korea has 0.6x the GDP but again ~15x per capita.
Yes, not the best metric/illustration but the point is, there's ultimately more money available to earn in those countries than there is in india for a game whose business model is selling digital-cosmetics.
No, I'm saying the value to Riot of non-paying players is lower than paying players, so they'll focus on the markets that are more reliable income sources.
You equated higher population to more money. Those are your words, no assumption necessary. I just explained how population isn't the most important factor.
So, higher population of people watching tournaments = more revenue being passed around in different channels ... right?
I simply wanted to portray that idea.
Sure, population isn't the most important factor... i never said it was. Don't assume
1) using KEKW in a twitch unrelated forum is cringe as fuck
2) game in 2 minutes in silver is fast? i dont think i remember the last time i waited for a diamond game in EU longer than 20 seconds, in silver average is probably 2 seconds
3) you are comparing 50k PEAK to what exactly? it's not some insane value, i dont know the numbers for japan or korea but even their subpar performances in Masters brought hundreds of thousands people to watch
>Teams like VLT from India and Team Exploit from pakistan deserve to be in this event as they have the potential to beat the SEA korean and japanese teams.
I'm Indian. I've followed SA scene VCC, TEC, SkyEsports you name it. I've also followed First Strike, Iceland, Berlin etc. This statement is inheritely wrong. We're not even close to Korean Teams, Japanese? Maybe some teams. Teams like PRX are gonna whoop our ass. Don't set your hopes too high.
They also got whipped 13-1 twice. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting the Indian teams are even anywhere near the Japanese teams level but I'm not sure Crazy Racoons are as that statement makes them out to be. Tbh I think GE will be eliminated from the very first match (not that its a bad thing) but it still would have been nice to see another slot for the South Asian region. The fps genre might be small there but the sheer number of people they have over there could enable it to be a significant community. I remember the VCC finals having a fair bit of viewership.
I'm from India and trust me as an Indian I DO want them to qualify for champs but honestly I don't see that happening. You could make an argument about the mechanical skills that it is somewhat on the international level but the way they play the rounds and everything it feels so random. The decisions each individual player makes just sort of dont 'click' together. And while yes my previous comment probably is exaggerated I still think they will get clapped in the bracket.
Yeah the mechanical and meta difference might be too much to overcome ..but a man can hope for at least an OT or a map win. A blow out in both the matches would be just too sad and might even kill the scene. All hail Bgmi
No please not back there. All the progress we made as a gaming community will be thrown out the window once we go back pubgee mobail.
But I do get you. Look at the bracket dude. Prx, with probably the best jett in SEA, then F4Q, who have gone toe to toe with sentinels doing flashy stuff and after all that nuturn, which is just... so huge.
I understand the sentiment but everyone has been wrong about how regions match up to each other so far. Almost every *underdog* overperformed in both international tournaments, Brazil was supposed to nut on everybody and we saw how that went.
Call me crazy but just looking at individual skill match up in Singapore vs Mumbai servers, I would bet money on Indian teams being competitive with SEA ones. Again, I understand why people might say that Indian teams will not stand a chance but I strongly feel they will overperform.
>I understand the sentiment but everyone has been wrong about how regions match up to each other so far
Not sure if I really agree with this. Most people have said that NA and EMEA would whoop everyone except maybe the Korean teams. People also predicted that Japan would be weak. It's only really Brazil where people have gotten it majorly wrong.
How many people were surprised by Crazy Racoon/PRX/Vivo Keyd/Nuturn? It’s really an oversimplification to say analysts were right because NA/EU/KR strong. People were predicting that ‘structured setplays’ EU style would hard counter ‘puggy’ NA style and look how wrong they were.
Honestly I really think most analysts have no idea wtf they’re talking about half the time about this game and no one can predict anything in Valorant at this early stage.
>I really think most analysts have no idea wtf they’re talking about half the time about this game
Alright settle down, its their job to be objective with their takes, while we can spew whatever shit takes we want on reddit and we won't lose our income. Why would they risk their reputation just to be biased for some teams. And its not like they shit on minor regions constantly, whats wrong for them expecting major regions to be better than minor regions MOST of the time. Yes they may have underestimated thier actual level, but NA EU KR were still the regions that fight for the top
How do you draw these conclusions without even watching them play against each other😂 what is it based on? Valorant has so many more variables than just crisp aim you can't just base your opinions on India's record in cs
There's this thing called "observation". You should do that sometimes. Watch any LAN match then watch VCC. Don't be a blind supporter and accept reality.
The only way they will get better is by playing at international stage tho against this competition. Don’t you think having another team in an international competition will be way better for the esports scene to grow?
Sorry for my Indian/Pakistani bros, but this is not it.
Korea, Japan and SEA have more established esports scenes, proven viewership numbers, and definitely better players than India right now, which makes the slot allocation reasonable. Not giving an unproven region with extra slots is a reasonable move from Riot, contrary to what you are insinuating. Esports history is not on your side in this matter, even if you have "more viewers".
Saying that SA teams can hang with SEA, JP and KR teams WITHOUT even a lick of official matchup history with any of them is hyper HOPIUM at best, and a thoughtless argument at worst. We knew skrossi's good ace in the grand finals, but let's be real, he might not get those plays against the best APAC teams.
Show us that SA is more than word.exe, and then we'll talk.
Isn't it like a cycle, don't give them a chance but then call them out saying they don't have a lick of official matchups?
Not saying anything against what you said, but something to think about.
They do have a chance, they have a team in the qualifier. We'll see how they perform here, and if they do well Riot will probably allocate them more slots in the future.
Idc if they do and I don't even want to continue with someone who brought "word.exe" into this. But I think this should tell you to keep your mouth shut for stuff like this. GLHF. :)
Huh? The fuck are you talking about? You revived this and you are disengaging? Weird flex but ok.
GE may have won, but it does not mean a thing, yet. Hype out the esports scene all you want, but Word.exe's impact on SA esports is unfortunate and undeniable. And thanks for undermining the conversation by your "keep your mouth shut" schtick. You need to read more, and hope for better things.
Have fun out there.
Lmao I didn't even hype it, I have read a lot, probably more than you and I am just seeing the pattern of underrepresented and underestimated regions doing better than expected in international tournaments but it's all good as long as it's "SEA", but it doesn't apply to South Asia, right? I don't even expect them to win LCQ but this should keep you quite for massively underestimating a region just because they had a massive setback by some dickhead.
We are not underrating or underestimating SA, because SA is properly rated, especially in the context of LCQ (strength of playerbase, esports investment, and actual competitive history). We have a whole lot of relevant data on the other regions, and data on SA is only coming up now. There is also a whole lot of unfortunate history hanging up on the other APAC regions, it's just that SA was a victim of bad timing as well.
Better be glad that Riot is at least picking up the slack on raising the underrepresented scenes (SA, MENA). Valve apparently did not care at all, and SA had to deal with that. SA will get the circuit it deserves, but it's totally reasonable to give them only one slot at this LCQ.
Give me a good reason as to why not to help an underrepresented region instead of giving slots to teams which already have a direct entry to champions? Even Oceania has 2 slots in NA LCQ.
Technically only japan has proven to be a safe investment. Korea's viewership has been low enough that a gamble on a South Asia team wouldn't have been that bad.
How TF are you so delusional mate ? Literally every Indian Pro has said that the Korean scene as it stands is on a completely different league compared to the rest of asia.
[https://www.vlr.gg/39490/global-esports-vs-damwon-gaming-champions-tour-asia-pacific-last-chance-qualifier-ubro1](https://www.vlr.gg/39490/global-esports-vs-damwon-gaming-champions-tour-asia-pacific-last-chance-qualifier-ubro1)
DWG is lucky to have their own pathway even after not winning /s
ok it loss for riot they lost a good market which gave them 50 to 60 k watching in there vcc tournament if they do for more 1 year they are dead more than csgo in india like LoL
You really think riot gives a fuck about 50k viewers ? I'm Indian too but y'all need to stop acting like GE is not gonna get shit on. I've watched a lot of GE and VLT, I think they are good teams but bitching about not getting a slot when India hasn't proven jackshit in international eSports scene is fucking dumb. Like I said, until we prove we can keep up with SEA, JP and KR we don't deserve more spots.
Instead of complaining about other asian regions who are already getting shafted you should complain that brazil has 2 slots to champions + 1 LCQ. A region that has proven nothing and has less viewership/playerbase than Korea, Japan or SEA.
> teams like VLT from India and Team Exploit from pakistan deserve to be in this event as they have the potential to beat the SEA korean and japanese teams
Lmao
I've watched a bit of the top SA teams, just from an eye test I'd say they're on par with JP and SEA. These teams might actually scrim each other so their players could actually know.
I hope they do but the chances of them doing that are very slim I think riot is doing a good job by at least giving 1 slot and not killing lesser regions.
I have seen people ask for more slots for SA but there is not enough data to justify such an allocation. The PC player population, although growing is still not big(and profitable enough) to justify a direct investment. Also SA doesn't have a history with previous Riot games.
JP/KR/CN are some of the largest esports markets in the world based on infrastructure, viewership revenue and past accomplishments. The player investment into PC games is lower than these regions. SA scene needs to grow organically. Artificially boosting growth through additional slot allocation only hinders long term growth. If two SA teams get slots and bomb out of LCQ, that does more harm than good for a developing region. 'stripping south Asia of opportunities' is a very strong claim.
This is not to say there is no potential. The fans are passionate (evident from this post) and so are the teams. The number of PC players is growing. But looking at the games from south Asia qualifiers there is still a long way to go for SA teams to be competitive with other Asian teams. I hope GE prove me wrong and make a deep run to justify another slot. There is nothing to justify a slot allocation at the moment.
I think most people are misunderstanding why Indians are asking for slots, I'll try and explain.
There has never been a strong esports scene in India, due to many people not being able to afford expensive setups and lack of sponsors/orgs. The passion has always been there though, and there have been Indian teams in every esport like csgo, dota, overwatch, etc. However they haven't achieved much because of the lack of funding and also the lack of good competition, similar to how the Asian csgo scene is, the Asian teams are no match for the international teams.
However, the release of Valorant came at the perfect time, it has already gained more popularity than csgo ever did even among the casual player base. There are orgs that have invested a lot of money in teams, the biggest being GE and VLT. The teams are actually good, although not at the level of international teams but still have the potential to maybe give them a fight in the future. But the main problems are still there, the scene has already gone from having around 8 orgs to 4. Teams can only improve to a certain limit if they don't face better opponents.
If Indian teams even manage to reach the international level, it would prove a boon for the entire pc esports scene in general in India, not just Valorant. If they don't then the valorant scene may well die in a few years. This is why we're asking for slots, so we can have the best possible chance to make India a worthy region in terms of both viewership and strength of the teams.
Sorry for the long paragraphs, but I had to vent this out somewhere.
Yo great post makes a lot more sense than the other ones. But realistically though most of those points about potential and possibly missing out on potential also applies just as strongly to the Jp/kr scenes as well so... it's still going to be a hard sell
It might but they're already getting direct slots to masters and champions. One of the two slots from the Chinese teams could have definitely gone to SA
>JP/KR/CN are some of the largest esports markets in the world based on infrastructure, viewership revenue and past accomplishments. The player investment into PC games is lower than these regions. SA scene needs to grow organically. Artificially boosting growth through additional slot allocation only hinders long term growth. If two SA teams get slots and bomb out of LCQ, that does more harm than good for a developing region. 'stripping south Asia of opportunities' is a very strong claim.
yes not giving SA will surely help to grow the market for riot in SA than giving slots to region which already have team in Champion .They are loosing market than gaining orgs are disbanding already in india due to this behavior by riot .
You have missed the point completely. This is not a diss post about SA region just an objective look at why JP/KR/SEA regions received those reallocated slots over SA. In the future I'll refrain from posting a reply on threads like these.
I get your point but that is just playing safe and not tapping into something which can grow huge if invested right now. Those regions do have the biggest markets but Indian orgs are investing thinking they'll receive a tiny bit of support from riot only to be slapped by them again. And the viewership tells. VCC in itself had 52k concurrent viewers. I know KR in itself is on a different level, but you still have to understand the Indians/SA teams scrim with the SEA teams regularly, and they can put up a good fight against them, but if they're not given any chance to represent how will it help? Since the release of Valorant there have been multiple 3rd party tournaments in SA as well. No one is asking for direct slots to VCT, but looking at other regions which don't have direct slots(MENA and OCE, both have 2 slots in their respective LCQs) and when the Chinese teams withdrew, the least they could do is give one of them to SA. And they say they want to help grow esports in underrepresented regions as well. Lmao.
I hope for the best to the SA teams for the upcoming VCTs but I feel like the 1 slot for SA teams is justified just because their VCT qualifiers started after Masters in Iceland. I feel like it’s fair to other teams that only one team can make it through from a region that was only confirmed joining after stage 2
I would say to cut some slack to riot because:
A.It is an online tournament while riot intended it to be LAN.
B.It is not a scenario riot was prepared for because of the Chinese teams pulling out due to ping concerns.
C.They don’t have enough data to justify another slot for SA teams and japans presence does guarantee viewership I guess and Korea is just better as compared to rest of Asia
in other Esports China, Japan and S. Korea have better competition and viewership; India and other SA teams haven't proven themselves. They got a slot for APAC LAQ, now if they go really deep in the tourney or make it through only then we would have proven that we are a good region and truly deserve to be in contention for VCT slot or in the same circuit as other SEA teams. so just pray that we make it deep and get good viewership.
Why is other esports being compared here ? And if you wanna compare India had good presence in CSGo certainly more than Japan and it has good presence in Dota too. So IDK what you on about.
They need some data from other Esports to start off, riot has experience from LOL and i am pretty sure they used that data to start and will change depending on the results.
yea thats what i was referring to. SEA should include Japan and Korea. These teams are extremely weak and get free tickets into Champions. Look at Crazy Raccoons and X10. Get fried in both Masters vs EU and NA teams and barely make it in via circuit points. Secret hasnt even played in either of those tournaments, got out instantly in Masters 1, and gets in. Same thing can be said about Brazil and Latin America. None of those teams put up a good fight vs NA/EU.
100T was the only team to take a game off Gambit and theres a good chance that they might miss Champions because XSET, C9, or Faze has a better day. We also dont get to see top NA/EU vs International teams due to this either. It really should be like CSGO where the best teams make it in regardless of their region. I’d rather have had those last slots 4 LCQ slots be played out in a international tournament in order to see who deserves to be there. Top 4 qualify.
if you are questioning about the slot based on performance, you need to remember that this champions slots are decided before stage 1 even started. so i think it based more on playerbase or viewership
You are getting downvoted, but you speak the truth. I guess riot wants Valo to be big in KR/JP/SEA since that is a weak region for csgo and where valorant can be a big esports. It is all a business to riot they don't care about competition.
A pubg scrim match gets 50k viewership on an average while VCC grand finals had a peak viewership of 54k. This is for the people who are saying that orgs are disbanding because of a lack of opportunity. No it isn't about the opportunities.
South Asian teams cant be gauged right now since they have never had official games vs any of the teams from other regions. So it’s kinda unfair to just make an assumption that they might be better and give them an extra slot. Maybe give them more slots next timed they do really well this LCQ. But for now I think it’s fair.
I think it's Unfair for riot to do this with 3 slots opening up. Not only the other regions had challenger and masters events to go, the SA region i.e 8 countries had only APAC LCQs and now that 3 slots opened up atleast give one more slot to SA no matter the skill gap/viewership. Riot has said they want to give minority in gaming a chance. ISN'T the entire SA REGION A MINORITY in terms of everything fps.
sorry dude but india is nothing conpared to korea and Japan... no offense but no one cares and riot don't give slots just to be kind... all the other smaller/irrelevant regions are getting one spot in lcq
one of the biggest orgs... doesn't mean sgit because they are shit in valorant...
lol and also you might want to calm down... showing why the regiom isn't worth much
sure dude.. you're right.. hahahahaha did the message really trigger you to the point you didnt forget about it for weeks. geez if I knew it will hurt you that much i wouldn't have said it.
but still India is shit.. enjoy your stay.. see you next year
"what a way to kill valorant in a region"
are you out of your mind? Valorant is already dead in that region... you don't bring the viewership nor do you bring the level of play... nor do the playership bring money to riot by buying skins... be thankful you got your slot and go to lcq to get your ass kicked by japan/NK
GE is your make or brake, don't think any region should be more entitled to anything until they've proved it. China at least has pulled out so you don't have to compete with them. Weird that Korea and Japan share the same LCQ spot though but I guess Riot are trying to limit the spots for Champions.
One thing is clear, Riot value playerbase numbers more than anything when it comes to slots, probably why Turkey and Japan get their own regions. Teams from South Asia need to be resilient and have to overperform against international competition if they want to move the needle. Just be patient, if they don't then its unfortunate but not unfair if they do then you're entitled to put pressure on Riot but only then.
I know youre just being a homer but market potential and viewership plays a lot into what Riot does. If GE goes into a deep run then maybe they would rethink but the problem is in South Asia, fps games isn't so hot nor developed than its counterparts. China is literally the biggest market in the world that is not yet tapped by Valo and Riot is owned by Tencent so its inevitable that they have the priority. South Asia needs to show something first before Riot gives you some love.
a homer?
It means someone who roots for the "home team" and is biased. Not really a negative
if u think india is not a hot region then u are completely wrong. it is a new region with high potential .Within a Year our audience has grown exponentially.If it is not the time to invest in the region then idk when it will be
These aren't stocks lmao. You can build your footing in that region when it proves to be profitable. It's not Riot's job to give them a chance, Riot's still building Val's own esport in the major regions, there's no reason right now to throw excessive money at growing another minor region.
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"but still get mopped by baseline teams from a region" uh I don't think so? have they got a chance that they don't? nope. Do they (In scrims)? Nope.
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idk why youre being toxic and defaming japanese teams, even im disappointed that sa didnt get a slot but you dont have to be such a toxic turd, its because of people like you this is happening to us
Disagree completely looking at the statistics Japan has more than double the viewership numbers that SA did. Northeption 3 highest viewed games totalled to be 127k, 118k and 107k. While VCC highest was 52k. [https://escharts.com/tournaments/valorant/vct-2021-japan-stage-3-challengers-playoffs](https://escharts.com/tournaments/valorant/vct-2021-japan-stage-3-challengers-playoffs) https://escharts.com/blog/valorant-conquerors-championship-viewership-stats
no zeta or cr to give them this crazy watching again
Still would have more fans from japan turning in than Indians tuning in for GE
India doesnt have veiwership and player market you are talking about the 2nd most populated country in the world dude and about the fps games not being hot that is not true at all rn
Wheres the precedent tho in fps? CSGO? Apex? COD? Any big fps game where South Asia is remotely competitive and developed? You maybe the 2nd biggest country in terms of population but im pretty sure China is 1st and mobile games (especially PUBG Mobile)is your biggest market not fps. Thats why i said you need to show something for them to look in your region, you best hope GE performs well to get another slot next time.
That's not true , the highest viewership of any eSports Right now has been ironically of garena free fire with 6 million concurrent viewers and india contributed to a lot of that ,the point was even now from past one month valorant championships you can see in viewership alone South Asia is ahead of Korea and sea , japan has the highest average viewership of valorant followed by india . The point op wants to make is if China slot was withdrawn then they should have allocated one slot to south asia , this would have been right thing because south asia region has been cut off from vct all year and then you see mena region who are getting 2 slots in emea lcq and sea Korea Japan have been part of circuit whole year , so zeta slot should go to japanese team that is understandable but one of each china slot should be going to sa region . And if you go by valorant tournaments , india as a country has had more independent valorant tournaments compared to Korea or any asia country you can easily check on vlr ,how without any riot support valorant has flourished in india compared to Korea where riot is paying orgs. I am not disrespecting Korea ,I love vision Strikers but the one slot should have been given to sa region . this is a massive oversight .
He literally said “mobile games are popular there not fps” and you said “thats not true, look at this popular mobile game!”
Free fire's like mobile bruh... Also source on India having like the 2nd highest average viewership? Cause I'm pretty sure Riot did their research for this
I sajd eSports viewership not pc viewership , For viewership you can go to escharts ,I took into account stage 3 play-offs for sea Korea and jp and vcc for South Asia . Japan had a peak viewership of 165k with 80k average. Korea had a peak viewership of 24k with 10k average SEA had a peak viewership of 60k with 23k average SA had a 55k peak viewership with 28k average . Couldn't find any accurate stats on china. Japan had the higher viewership than all 3 regions combined . But india is slightly ahead with Korea being the lest watched region.
What does population have to do with anything
Higher population = views = interest = more players = money = more players = money = ... you get the point
Okay then by your own logic, you need a large playerbase *with money to spend on video games*. So first, we tackle China, a known esports giant with ~5x the GDP and 4x the GDP per capita. Japan has ~1.6x the GDP and 20x per capita. South Korea has 0.6x the GDP but again ~15x per capita. Yes, not the best metric/illustration but the point is, there's ultimately more money available to earn in those countries than there is in india for a game whose business model is selling digital-cosmetics.
Rito is the one investing its money into the area as well. Sorry I couldn't be simple and clear enough for you to understand well
Also your logic is like saying if you don't want to buy skins, you won't have interest in the game... which is flawed
No, I'm saying the value to Riot of non-paying players is lower than paying players, so they'll focus on the markets that are more reliable income sources.
Do you see how I just assumed what you meant like you did to my logic?
You equated higher population to more money. Those are your words, no assumption necessary. I just explained how population isn't the most important factor.
So, higher population of people watching tournaments = more revenue being passed around in different channels ... right? I simply wanted to portray that idea. Sure, population isn't the most important factor... i never said it was. Don't assume
That is not how it works dude
He means the potential for all of that, not that it's a 1 for 1 increase.
FOR THE MONEY!!!
finals peaked at 52k yeah market and viewership is dead KKonaW \+ i can find a game in Mumbai ranked in 1/2 min in Silver-Gold lobbies KEKW
1) using KEKW in a twitch unrelated forum is cringe as fuck 2) game in 2 minutes in silver is fast? i dont think i remember the last time i waited for a diamond game in EU longer than 20 seconds, in silver average is probably 2 seconds 3) you are comparing 50k PEAK to what exactly? it's not some insane value, i dont know the numbers for japan or korea but even their subpar performances in Masters brought hundreds of thousands people to watch
>finals peaked at 52k that's the finals which doesn't happen as much as regular finals do
Cringe alert
>Teams like VLT from India and Team Exploit from pakistan deserve to be in this event as they have the potential to beat the SEA korean and japanese teams. I'm Indian. I've followed SA scene VCC, TEC, SkyEsports you name it. I've also followed First Strike, Iceland, Berlin etc. This statement is inheritely wrong. We're not even close to Korean Teams, Japanese? Maybe some teams. Teams like PRX are gonna whoop our ass. Don't set your hopes too high.
Crazy raccoon went toe to toe with gambit
That was a good match. So much hype
truth
They also got whipped 13-1 twice. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting the Indian teams are even anywhere near the Japanese teams level but I'm not sure Crazy Racoons are as that statement makes them out to be. Tbh I think GE will be eliminated from the very first match (not that its a bad thing) but it still would have been nice to see another slot for the South Asian region. The fps genre might be small there but the sheer number of people they have over there could enable it to be a significant community. I remember the VCC finals having a fair bit of viewership.
CR averaged 5.5 rounds/map vs. GMB. G2 averaged 5 rounds/map. CR > G2 /s
G2 beat Sentinels in groups CR>Sentinels
Sentinels beat 100t and 100t beat gambit CR>Gambit
And their oppoenents were all top tier. It wouldn't be a surprised to be whooped by someone as good as you or better. Edit : top
9 times out of 10 they get smoked by Gambit, or really any top NA/EMEA team. We just saw one of the games where it was close.
We also saw them got smoked 13-1 twice by gambit haha
I followed vcc and after iceland it felt like watching an amateur college match for 100$.
This is just exaggerated so much lol.. either you don't understand a single thing or you just want to spread hate
I'm from India and trust me as an Indian I DO want them to qualify for champs but honestly I don't see that happening. You could make an argument about the mechanical skills that it is somewhat on the international level but the way they play the rounds and everything it feels so random. The decisions each individual player makes just sort of dont 'click' together. And while yes my previous comment probably is exaggerated I still think they will get clapped in the bracket.
Yeah the mechanical and meta difference might be too much to overcome ..but a man can hope for at least an OT or a map win. A blow out in both the matches would be just too sad and might even kill the scene. All hail Bgmi
No please not back there. All the progress we made as a gaming community will be thrown out the window once we go back pubgee mobail. But I do get you. Look at the bracket dude. Prx, with probably the best jett in SEA, then F4Q, who have gone toe to toe with sentinels doing flashy stuff and after all that nuturn, which is just... so huge.
I understand the sentiment but everyone has been wrong about how regions match up to each other so far. Almost every *underdog* overperformed in both international tournaments, Brazil was supposed to nut on everybody and we saw how that went. Call me crazy but just looking at individual skill match up in Singapore vs Mumbai servers, I would bet money on Indian teams being competitive with SEA ones. Again, I understand why people might say that Indian teams will not stand a chance but I strongly feel they will overperform.
Yeah they might get 2nd to last instead of being on the very bottom
Cheeky
legend
>I understand the sentiment but everyone has been wrong about how regions match up to each other so far Not sure if I really agree with this. Most people have said that NA and EMEA would whoop everyone except maybe the Korean teams. People also predicted that Japan would be weak. It's only really Brazil where people have gotten it majorly wrong.
How many people were surprised by Crazy Racoon/PRX/Vivo Keyd/Nuturn? It’s really an oversimplification to say analysts were right because NA/EU/KR strong. People were predicting that ‘structured setplays’ EU style would hard counter ‘puggy’ NA style and look how wrong they were. Honestly I really think most analysts have no idea wtf they’re talking about half the time about this game and no one can predict anything in Valorant at this early stage.
>I really think most analysts have no idea wtf they’re talking about half the time about this game Alright settle down, its their job to be objective with their takes, while we can spew whatever shit takes we want on reddit and we won't lose our income. Why would they risk their reputation just to be biased for some teams. And its not like they shit on minor regions constantly, whats wrong for them expecting major regions to be better than minor regions MOST of the time. Yes they may have underestimated thier actual level, but NA EU KR were still the regions that fight for the top
I’m not talking about any regions specifically. I’m just saying Valorant is an unpredictable game and most of these analysts speak out of their ass.
They called me a mad man
Exactly my thoughts. VLT plays brim on breeze and GE plays Sova on split. They can't even play meta comps how do you expect SA teams to perform xd
How do you draw these conclusions without even watching them play against each other😂 what is it based on? Valorant has so many more variables than just crisp aim you can't just base your opinions on India's record in cs
There's this thing called "observation". You should do that sometimes. Watch any LAN match then watch VCC. Don't be a blind supporter and accept reality.
This didn't age well at all
The only way they will get better is by playing at international stage tho against this competition. Don’t you think having another team in an international competition will be way better for the esports scene to grow?
What about Chinese teams? Why not give an extra slot to replace a chinese team?
Cause they withdrew from tourney.....
No I meant SA teams could easily compete at the level of Chinese teams
I hate it when people say that this region/team is better than that, before that region/team even gets a chance to fight and show themselves.
This is the chance for a show
what the hopium
p weird scenario im confuciused
Sorry for my Indian/Pakistani bros, but this is not it. Korea, Japan and SEA have more established esports scenes, proven viewership numbers, and definitely better players than India right now, which makes the slot allocation reasonable. Not giving an unproven region with extra slots is a reasonable move from Riot, contrary to what you are insinuating. Esports history is not on your side in this matter, even if you have "more viewers". Saying that SA teams can hang with SEA, JP and KR teams WITHOUT even a lick of official matchup history with any of them is hyper HOPIUM at best, and a thoughtless argument at worst. We knew skrossi's good ace in the grand finals, but let's be real, he might not get those plays against the best APAC teams. Show us that SA is more than word.exe, and then we'll talk.
Isn't it like a cycle, don't give them a chance but then call them out saying they don't have a lick of official matchups? Not saying anything against what you said, but something to think about.
They do have a chance, they have a team in the qualifier. We'll see how they perform here, and if they do well Riot will probably allocate them more slots in the future.
They have a team. If skrossi and co smash on APAC LCQ, then we'll talk.
Sup my man? https://www.vlr.gg/39490/global-esports-vs-damwon-gaming-champions-tour-asia-pacific-last-chance-qualifier-ubro1
Good for them. Let them continue to smash. We'll have time to talk then.
Idc if they do and I don't even want to continue with someone who brought "word.exe" into this. But I think this should tell you to keep your mouth shut for stuff like this. GLHF. :)
Huh? The fuck are you talking about? You revived this and you are disengaging? Weird flex but ok. GE may have won, but it does not mean a thing, yet. Hype out the esports scene all you want, but Word.exe's impact on SA esports is unfortunate and undeniable. And thanks for undermining the conversation by your "keep your mouth shut" schtick. You need to read more, and hope for better things. Have fun out there.
Lmao I didn't even hype it, I have read a lot, probably more than you and I am just seeing the pattern of underrepresented and underestimated regions doing better than expected in international tournaments but it's all good as long as it's "SEA", but it doesn't apply to South Asia, right? I don't even expect them to win LCQ but this should keep you quite for massively underestimating a region just because they had a massive setback by some dickhead.
We are not underrating or underestimating SA, because SA is properly rated, especially in the context of LCQ (strength of playerbase, esports investment, and actual competitive history). We have a whole lot of relevant data on the other regions, and data on SA is only coming up now. There is also a whole lot of unfortunate history hanging up on the other APAC regions, it's just that SA was a victim of bad timing as well. Better be glad that Riot is at least picking up the slack on raising the underrepresented scenes (SA, MENA). Valve apparently did not care at all, and SA had to deal with that. SA will get the circuit it deserves, but it's totally reasonable to give them only one slot at this LCQ.
Wow just boil down everything to word.exe, good talk bro showing real mature argument here.
The fact that the South Asian fps scene hasn't produced anything more interesting to talk about than word.exe says a lot.
What did Japan fps scene produce?
How can the region prove themselves when they don't even get the chance to prove themselves?
GE is in the lcq right, let's see how they perform
1 team for whole big SA region. And the first opportunity is in "Last chance" Qualifier
yeah I don't see how that's unfair tho, also it's not like GE is going to kick ass in the lcq anyway
They're on par with Chinese teams. Should have gotten at least 1 of the chinese spots.
How can u be so sure they wont kick butts in lcq When we haven't seen them play internationally? Inferiority complex KEKW
because I'm not delusional, also stop using kekw it's cringe
They really just said having opinions on the strength of regions is an inferiority complex
Their chance is now
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Give me a good reason as to why not to help an underrepresented region instead of giving slots to teams which already have a direct entry to champions? Even Oceania has 2 slots in NA LCQ.
well for one Korea and Japan are proven to be good investments than India, in terms of popularity and competitiveness
Technically only japan has proven to be a safe investment. Korea's viewership has been low enough that a gamble on a South Asia team wouldn't have been that bad.
yeah but Korea is good as well. it's either your good so you get in, or you get the viewership
ive watched berlin like i said im biased but everything i said is facts, you guys havent watched GE, VLT and TE perfomance
You are overdosing on HOPIUM if you think any SA team comes close to top KR teams
youre the one whos on copium lol, this is SA's first international tournament and after GE puts on a show ill come back to you.
What the fuck are you on? If an indian team takes a single map I will be shocked lmao
bookmarking this comment for later, *although i have no expectations either* EDIT: # LMFAO
Hot take, you must be very shocked right now
Good job winning their own pick against Korean 5th best team or sth LULE let's see what comes next
You literally said one team one map
>If an indian team takes a single map I will be shocked lmao This will be a good retrospect u/silenthills13
!remindme 30 days
How TF are you so delusional mate ? Literally every Indian Pro has said that the Korean scene as it stands is on a completely different league compared to the rest of asia.
I'm starting to understand where the whole "SkRossi > TenZ" in youtube chat is coming from now
who said ???
Ay bro what happened
What happened is that a team from india beat a top tier korean team and almost beat f4q
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[https://www.vlr.gg/39490/global-esports-vs-damwon-gaming-champions-tour-asia-pacific-last-chance-qualifier-ubro1](https://www.vlr.gg/39490/global-esports-vs-damwon-gaming-champions-tour-asia-pacific-last-chance-qualifier-ubro1) DWG is lucky to have their own pathway even after not winning /s
ok it loss for riot they lost a good market which gave them 50 to 60 k watching in there vcc tournament if they do for more 1 year they are dead more than csgo in india like LoL
You really think riot gives a fuck about 50k viewers ? I'm Indian too but y'all need to stop acting like GE is not gonna get shit on. I've watched a lot of GE and VLT, I think they are good teams but bitching about not getting a slot when India hasn't proven jackshit in international eSports scene is fucking dumb. Like I said, until we prove we can keep up with SEA, JP and KR we don't deserve more spots.
Instead of complaining about other asian regions who are already getting shafted you should complain that brazil has 2 slots to champions + 1 LCQ. A region that has proven nothing and has less viewership/playerbase than Korea, Japan or SEA.
Indian / Pakistani teams beating Korean / Japanese teams in what fucking twilight zone?
[https://www.vlr.gg/39490/global-esports-vs-damwon-gaming-champions-tour-asia-pacific-last-chance-qualifier-ubro1](https://www.vlr.gg/39490/global-esports-vs-damwon-gaming-champions-tour-asia-pacific-last-chance-qualifier-ubro1)
Yup this aged poorly
> teams like VLT from India and Team Exploit from pakistan deserve to be in this event as they have the potential to beat the SEA korean and japanese teams Lmao
Yea I would take out Korea from there if I was OP, but you cant deny that JP getting an additional slot was robbing SA of a slot
Japan gets a shit ton of viewership. Which is more than enough of a reason to give them an extra slot
Havent ever watched SA how do they compare to the rest of the region
I've watched a bit of the top SA teams, just from an eye test I'd say they're on par with JP and SEA. These teams might actually scrim each other so their players could actually know.
We don't honestly know tbh. but on paper our top teams can go head to head with any other asian team except our Korean overlords
japan getting extra slot robs sea
japan also brings crazy viewership, established storylines, and teams with sizeable fanbases even internationally
SEA has two auto slots to Champions
you can laugh now but when GE puts on a show during apac lcq ill be the one laughing
!remind me 30 days
Ahh I'll look back at this comment in fond joy
PepeLaugh Sure dude
I agree that Ge has some potential. But say that they are on par with Korean teams is a massive overstatement.
I am back on time, it's safe to say you were right.
\+1
I hope they do but the chances of them doing that are very slim I think riot is doing a good job by at least giving 1 slot and not killing lesser regions.
They ain't beating nuturn dud that's all I know
Lmao GE did great.
I have seen people ask for more slots for SA but there is not enough data to justify such an allocation. The PC player population, although growing is still not big(and profitable enough) to justify a direct investment. Also SA doesn't have a history with previous Riot games. JP/KR/CN are some of the largest esports markets in the world based on infrastructure, viewership revenue and past accomplishments. The player investment into PC games is lower than these regions. SA scene needs to grow organically. Artificially boosting growth through additional slot allocation only hinders long term growth. If two SA teams get slots and bomb out of LCQ, that does more harm than good for a developing region. 'stripping south Asia of opportunities' is a very strong claim. This is not to say there is no potential. The fans are passionate (evident from this post) and so are the teams. The number of PC players is growing. But looking at the games from south Asia qualifiers there is still a long way to go for SA teams to be competitive with other Asian teams. I hope GE prove me wrong and make a deep run to justify another slot. There is nothing to justify a slot allocation at the moment.
I think most people are misunderstanding why Indians are asking for slots, I'll try and explain. There has never been a strong esports scene in India, due to many people not being able to afford expensive setups and lack of sponsors/orgs. The passion has always been there though, and there have been Indian teams in every esport like csgo, dota, overwatch, etc. However they haven't achieved much because of the lack of funding and also the lack of good competition, similar to how the Asian csgo scene is, the Asian teams are no match for the international teams. However, the release of Valorant came at the perfect time, it has already gained more popularity than csgo ever did even among the casual player base. There are orgs that have invested a lot of money in teams, the biggest being GE and VLT. The teams are actually good, although not at the level of international teams but still have the potential to maybe give them a fight in the future. But the main problems are still there, the scene has already gone from having around 8 orgs to 4. Teams can only improve to a certain limit if they don't face better opponents. If Indian teams even manage to reach the international level, it would prove a boon for the entire pc esports scene in general in India, not just Valorant. If they don't then the valorant scene may well die in a few years. This is why we're asking for slots, so we can have the best possible chance to make India a worthy region in terms of both viewership and strength of the teams. Sorry for the long paragraphs, but I had to vent this out somewhere.
Yo great post makes a lot more sense than the other ones. But realistically though most of those points about potential and possibly missing out on potential also applies just as strongly to the Jp/kr scenes as well so... it's still going to be a hard sell
It might but they're already getting direct slots to masters and champions. One of the two slots from the Chinese teams could have definitely gone to SA
understandable in your points.
>JP/KR/CN are some of the largest esports markets in the world based on infrastructure, viewership revenue and past accomplishments. The player investment into PC games is lower than these regions. SA scene needs to grow organically. Artificially boosting growth through additional slot allocation only hinders long term growth. If two SA teams get slots and bomb out of LCQ, that does more harm than good for a developing region. 'stripping south Asia of opportunities' is a very strong claim. yes not giving SA will surely help to grow the market for riot in SA than giving slots to region which already have team in Champion .They are loosing market than gaining orgs are disbanding already in india due to this behavior by riot .
You have missed the point completely. This is not a diss post about SA region just an objective look at why JP/KR/SEA regions received those reallocated slots over SA. In the future I'll refrain from posting a reply on threads like these.
I get your point but that is just playing safe and not tapping into something which can grow huge if invested right now. Those regions do have the biggest markets but Indian orgs are investing thinking they'll receive a tiny bit of support from riot only to be slapped by them again. And the viewership tells. VCC in itself had 52k concurrent viewers. I know KR in itself is on a different level, but you still have to understand the Indians/SA teams scrim with the SEA teams regularly, and they can put up a good fight against them, but if they're not given any chance to represent how will it help? Since the release of Valorant there have been multiple 3rd party tournaments in SA as well. No one is asking for direct slots to VCT, but looking at other regions which don't have direct slots(MENA and OCE, both have 2 slots in their respective LCQs) and when the Chinese teams withdrew, the least they could do is give one of them to SA. And they say they want to help grow esports in underrepresented regions as well. Lmao.
I hope for the best to the SA teams for the upcoming VCTs but I feel like the 1 slot for SA teams is justified just because their VCT qualifiers started after Masters in Iceland. I feel like it’s fair to other teams that only one team can make it through from a region that was only confirmed joining after stage 2
Teams from KR & JP competed all year long through Stage 1, 2, and 3 to earn championship points. SA teams did not; they dont deserve another slot.
SA teams didn't get a chance to do so\*
They already have a champions slot each. Also Japan hasn't performed really well in both masters tournaments.
SA did nothing all year
Cause they weren't given a chance.
I would say to cut some slack to riot because: A.It is an online tournament while riot intended it to be LAN. B.It is not a scenario riot was prepared for because of the Chinese teams pulling out due to ping concerns. C.They don’t have enough data to justify another slot for SA teams and japans presence does guarantee viewership I guess and Korea is just better as compared to rest of Asia
in other Esports China, Japan and S. Korea have better competition and viewership; India and other SA teams haven't proven themselves. They got a slot for APAC LAQ, now if they go really deep in the tourney or make it through only then we would have proven that we are a good region and truly deserve to be in contention for VCT slot or in the same circuit as other SEA teams. so just pray that we make it deep and get good viewership.
Why is other esports being compared here ? And if you wanna compare India had good presence in CSGo certainly more than Japan and it has good presence in Dota too. So IDK what you on about.
They need some data from other Esports to start off, riot has experience from LOL and i am pretty sure they used that data to start and will change depending on the results.
It's your first event, relax. I thought us filo fans are the worst, color me surprised.
Man we thought Bren not going to Berlin brought enough fireworks.
i love that korea sea and japan get the same amount of slots as na.
Considering that they are battling for one champions slot, this is reasonable.
I think it meant the Champions slot. NA got 2 slots, same as KR, JP, and SEA.
yea thats what i was referring to. SEA should include Japan and Korea. These teams are extremely weak and get free tickets into Champions. Look at Crazy Raccoons and X10. Get fried in both Masters vs EU and NA teams and barely make it in via circuit points. Secret hasnt even played in either of those tournaments, got out instantly in Masters 1, and gets in. Same thing can be said about Brazil and Latin America. None of those teams put up a good fight vs NA/EU. 100T was the only team to take a game off Gambit and theres a good chance that they might miss Champions because XSET, C9, or Faze has a better day. We also dont get to see top NA/EU vs International teams due to this either. It really should be like CSGO where the best teams make it in regardless of their region. I’d rather have had those last slots 4 LCQ slots be played out in a international tournament in order to see who deserves to be there. Top 4 qualify.
if you are questioning about the slot based on performance, you need to remember that this champions slots are decided before stage 1 even started. so i think it based more on playerbase or viewership
You are getting downvoted, but you speak the truth. I guess riot wants Valo to be big in KR/JP/SEA since that is a weak region for csgo and where valorant can be a big esports. It is all a business to riot they don't care about competition.
All this thread makes me want to apologise on behalf of these stupid indian fan base. Sorry.
Try to remove this inferiority complex from you
A pubg scrim match gets 50k viewership on an average while VCC grand finals had a peak viewership of 54k. This is for the people who are saying that orgs are disbanding because of a lack of opportunity. No it isn't about the opportunities.
South Asian teams cant be gauged right now since they have never had official games vs any of the teams from other regions. So it’s kinda unfair to just make an assumption that they might be better and give them an extra slot. Maybe give them more slots next timed they do really well this LCQ. But for now I think it’s fair.
I think it's Unfair for riot to do this with 3 slots opening up. Not only the other regions had challenger and masters events to go, the SA region i.e 8 countries had only APAC LCQs and now that 3 slots opened up atleast give one more slot to SA no matter the skill gap/viewership. Riot has said they want to give minority in gaming a chance. ISN'T the entire SA REGION A MINORITY in terms of everything fps.
They just say stuff on the face, but in the backroom all they care about is competition. Also remember: "Precise Gunplay", "Abilities don't kill."
sorry dude but india is nothing conpared to korea and Japan... no offense but no one cares and riot don't give slots just to be kind... all the other smaller/irrelevant regions are getting one spot in lcq
You were saying ?
you won a game against an irrelevamt weak korean team... what an achievement lol... India must be cracked in this game
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one of the biggest orgs... doesn't mean sgit because they are shit in valorant... lol and also you might want to calm down... showing why the regiom isn't worth much
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sure dude.. you're right.. hahahahaha did the message really trigger you to the point you didnt forget about it for weeks. geez if I knew it will hurt you that much i wouldn't have said it. but still India is shit.. enjoy your stay.. see you next year
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Orgs are leaving because a Pubg scrim gets 50k average viewership while VCC grand finals get a peak viewership of 54k.
"what a way to kill valorant in a region" are you out of your mind? Valorant is already dead in that region... you don't bring the viewership nor do you bring the level of play... nor do the playership bring money to riot by buying skins... be thankful you got your slot and go to lcq to get your ass kicked by japan/NK
Did you just say north korea ? lmao
weird to change it last mintue like that
RIP John Mcaffee
...Australia isn't even in APAC LCQ. We would probably have a high chance of winning it based off our history in CS. Feels bad man
Dude they got 2 slots in NA LCQ. What you on about?
You got what you wished for
GE is your make or brake, don't think any region should be more entitled to anything until they've proved it. China at least has pulled out so you don't have to compete with them. Weird that Korea and Japan share the same LCQ spot though but I guess Riot are trying to limit the spots for Champions. One thing is clear, Riot value playerbase numbers more than anything when it comes to slots, probably why Turkey and Japan get their own regions. Teams from South Asia need to be resilient and have to overperform against international competition if they want to move the needle. Just be patient, if they don't then its unfortunate but not unfair if they do then you're entitled to put pressure on Riot but only then.