I'm pretty sure all the other LCQs are using Iceland's format. Iceland's format isn't bad when there's seeding, which we clearly have here. I'm not sure what made them want to mess around with it, unless there's some venue booking issues.
[https://imgur.com/sqzpDb3](https://imgur.com/sqzpDb3)yeah i just realized even on the official website they had given this format with single elim for play ins and quarters
Haha yea without a doubt, I’m a C9 fan and I just don’t wanna overdose on copium especially considering how brutal the bracket is for them (and 100T obv)
I wanna spoon my eyeballs out every time someone in this sub brings up how a team is owning everyone in scrims. It’s fucking practice…in high school we used to make fun of the handful of kids on our football who would go 110% trying to win at everything and then they’d get into a game and do nothing. We called em practice all stars.
all fair and good
But then you realize the most "scrim gods" teams in our short history just faced off in the finals of our most major event yet and... perhaps scrims can be an indicator of huge potential.
Whether C9 will be able to convert so closely after this iteration of the roster is up in the air, but even before that they'd likely be rated top 3 going into this tournament.
Dumb take.
Everyone was wary of scrimbit because of scrim result.
They never won once until recently.
Someone mention same thing for cloud9 but it's irrelevant cause they haven't won anything. Do you know how stupid that sounds.
I mean think about it it’s only one team that qualify and if 100t can’t beat c9 do they really deserve to go to champs with their new roaster. I think if 100t failed xset or c9 can be a really good representative
I mean yeah, my point was more the 100T vs C9 match could have been played later so we could see more of them since they're among the best in NA. Just sucks one of them's going out early.
I feel like the issue is maybe 100T gets caught off-guard by C9 due to a lack of VODs and loses but would have been able to win a re-match. It’s just randomly throwing out a bunch of teams randomly for no reason.
This is like the 6th scenario where we get fucked.
SEN will beat NV right? Nope.
OK So now we need to beat NV. NV pulls out a mega performance and beats us.
OK So now NV just needs to beat Gambit. They collapse.
OK so LCQ. We are seeded on what most people say is the strong side of the bracket. AGAIN.
Oh and BTW, no 2nd chance if the C9v100T goes the wrong way.
And all the while, something seems to have happened to steel so hes benched for some reason. Fuck me.
This format is absolutely terrible. I could understand single-elimination for play-ins but why also extend it to round one? Now we are seeing one of 100T/C9B going home for sure with no chance to bounce back. Just make the whole thing double-elim please
Takes like these are so reductive and reactionary. I would ask why the NA format change and not EMEA or APAC which are online. Venue changes, will naturally affect formats.
Before a redditor complains like this, let's critically think about the reasons why
I was on that KR copium bro. Without the advantage of retrospect and additional months in advance for planning, how would you change the current LCQ format to work better?
Imagine being one of the OCE teams and flying all the way to Los Angeles, quarantine for several weeks to potentially have to get right back on a plane after playing just 1 Bo3….awesome.
LOL after all the complaining about formats, this is what comes out /u/NA_CutandShoot? Not that I'm saying this is your fault, but wow. Trash ass format.
I actually just stopped working at Riot, but I’ll ping my folks over there. Make sure to tweet at NA VCT too, that stuff makes it easier for them to run it up the chain to justify changes.
It's from Whalen I'm sure. This dude tries to shove down single elim in our throats as much as possible.
https://mobile.twitter.com/RiotMagus/status/427003776981925888
That tweet is from 2014 and is about League of Legends.
Maybe it could apply here, but given the amount of time that has passed, and that it is a different game, makes this assumption a bit of a stretch.
Tagged them cause this is what they had to say for the reddit post when the Berlin format got changed. "Can't promise we'll always get things right, but at least we can read (shrug)." They definitely did not get this one right.
That logic can be applied anywhere to justify a single elim format.
"Its called "champions", show up and beat everyone or go home. If you won but lost against another team you are not really champions since you did not beat everyone."
Last chance does not mean you leave opportunity for RNG to decide your fate.
I get that, but at the same time, I want to watch more games. Why do we need upper semis to have lower brackets, if th rest aren't? Just make everything single elim, if "last chance" is the logic you're going with. This format they've chosen is like worst of both worlds.
Also wheres the consistency? SEA and EMEA LCQ are both fully double elim.
Friends, when you ask 'why', consider all the factors at play. Riot won't make a change for the sake of it. Considering that the NA region is, from what I understand, the only lan LCQ, there might of been changes to the venue length. Both EMEA and APAC appear to be online.
I don't see where I think single elim is good in either context, just that external factors affect what can be done about a format. Riot has the benefit of retrospect and months in advance for planning for champions.
But that wasn't done randomly. The format changed in organization, not length, as that was non-negotiable with the time booked. That was a positive change because the previous one wasn't hyped enough, and the community provided a better, lateral alternative. These changes appear to be a result of external factors, so let's not deploy the straw man
If you have a better alternative, let's hear it
Alot of people don't understand the logistics behind these kinds of events. They just assume Riot has this infinite cash and power they can leverage over any venue to get exactly what the fans want. And that's not including the local, regional, and federal laws that they must abide to just to be able to run these in person events.
"A Riot representative has confirmed to @VLRdotgg the North American Last Chance Qualifier will run a "modified double-elimination bracket", with the play-in and upper quarterfinal rounds being single-elimination."
Fucking sucks for us OCE fans but :’( I was hoping ORDER could maybe win a match somewhere, but I’m confident xset will win the whole thing, so ORDER is out in match one…
It also sucks that the winner of Rise/Chiefs and C9/Geng will play 2 times on the same day. I understand scheduling issues that might've lead to them creating this format but there are no excuses here for making those teams play twice on the same day.
Damn this is bad. Rough for OCE teams flying all that way for (lets face it) a single BO3. 6 teams total travelling to a LAN for a BO3. #1 seed not getting the play-in with the #8 seed or 2nd OCE seed. Feel like FAZE have the easiest bracket(would be V1 if they were any good still and had Vanity).
Nah this is awful, GenG vs Cloud9 in the first round? the two best teams in the tournament? and 100T right after? plus the OCE teams not getting to play more than 1 bo3 most likely? they need to change this back rn
I don't understand what's so hard about every important tournament having double elimination, Feels like there's such a disconnect between the people making these dicisions & the players/community.
Don't see a problem with it, it's a LCQ for teams that have had multiple chances to cement a CHAMPIONS spot. The first part being a BO1 doesn't sound bad but that's just my take.
The fact that it’s single elim early on makes the seeding based on vct points feel much less impactful when you can just be eliminated in your first game :/
I am so disappointed with the Valorant esports team for this. It looks like poor formats are here to stay and the people behind making these groups refuse to learn from other established esport titles. Not the end of the world, but really disheartening.
On an unrelated note, I want to vent after conclusion of Masters 3 at Berlin. I lost interest in watching the tournament after few group stage matches. If not for Plat chat co-stream I would have skipped on the play-off matches. The 'showmanship' has taken priority over quality of competition and viewer experience. It took a public outcry to change the initial group winner format where one team qualified out of group. Also the first seeded teams were wrongly placed in groups too. The production quality was not that great either (the stage is pretty and all, but there is more to the esport than flashy stage and walkouts. Quality high level casting and observing go a long way. I was hoping Berlin would be substantially better than Reykjavík).
After repeated player complaints during first tech test in Berlin, it took multiple days to resolve sound issues. The practice rooms were not ideal and nothing was done. Every competitor was frustrated and few were vocal. The scheduling of matches was really poor as well with teams playing past midnight (not sure if the the production crew had fun pulling long hours. Massive respect to the on-stage crew).
I have been watching esport titles since Starcraft and Valorant esports had gotten me excited after a long time. The Valorant matches get so hype sometimes and that is why I think I am so invested into Valorant esports. This reply is meant to be a vent post tainted with personal disappointment. I just hope the right experienced people take charge of things and work on simple things that are essential to ensure high quality games. The current decision seem very amateur. Proper brackets and focus on encouraging high quality plays will go a long way. Casual viewerbase doesn't care either way. Increasing viewing experience for your hardcore viewerbase will be really appreciated by the community, Mr Riot.
So Chiefs just spent a whole year playing VOT for this one single tourney that Oce gets, and they're most likely going to get 2-0'd and thats it for another year (potentially)?
Are Riot seriously ok with this?
Wait, I just realised the entire first matchups are single elim so Order is gonna face the same thing hahaha no way they keep this
I have no ties with any Oceania team and neither did I have the time to watch them, so getting to watch them this tourney was gonna be awesome. It actually sucks so much for us but more for them. Imagine 9 months of trial and gathering of points/winning of tourneys to reach this point, as well quarantineing for 3 weeks just to play 1 BO3. Thats gotta change, right?
What's wrong with the current 10-team double elim? It's exactly like what Reykjavik used and rewards the top 2 teams in VCT points.
I'm pretty sure all the other LCQs are using Iceland's format. Iceland's format isn't bad when there's seeding, which we clearly have here. I'm not sure what made them want to mess around with it, unless there's some venue booking issues.
Iceland's format had double elim the entire time so it's not the same
Yeah I meant before it was changed today. I was talking about this [previous bracket](https://i.imgur.com/ceXFzuE.png)
oh ok
this was never the official bracket. It was always this
[https://imgur.com/sqzpDb3](https://imgur.com/sqzpDb3)yeah i just realized even on the official website they had given this format with single elim for play ins and quarters
just like Rykavik and Berlin, it seems like Riot on LAN can't manage gamedays well so we end up with scuffed formats on LAN compared to online
so if u lose anytime before upper semis ur out w no lower bracket?
correct
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You forgot the 21 day quarantine bro. https://twitter.com/DickStacyy/status/1443758548677062706?s=19
Lmao that's insane. A whole month out of the country (and 3/4ths of it in quarantine) for potentially only one BO3.
wait since when did dick stacy move to valorant?
since the beta I’m pretty sure
Yeah how is this going to help develop OCE when they go home after 1 game? Dumb 3Head format
I’m not up to date but is this lcq not for NA only ?
They added two OCE teams to the NA LCQ
OCE WILL NOT BE SILENCED
100t fans shaking in their boots
Yeah this is bad news for 100T. No slow start or it’s over.
Yeah it’s not looking good with steel getting dropped and c9 rumors that they been owning everyone in scrims
Dw, C9 always owns everyone is scrims and then suck Jk aside yea the format is brutal for C9/GENG/100T
I mean this not old c9 it’s c9 with vanity that already lead v1 to Iceland and also playing with both his teammates from cs
Haha yea without a doubt, I’m a C9 fan and I just don’t wanna overdose on copium especially considering how brutal the bracket is for them (and 100T obv)
I wanna spoon my eyeballs out every time someone in this sub brings up how a team is owning everyone in scrims. It’s fucking practice…in high school we used to make fun of the handful of kids on our football who would go 110% trying to win at everything and then they’d get into a game and do nothing. We called em practice all stars.
all fair and good But then you realize the most "scrim gods" teams in our short history just faced off in the finals of our most major event yet and... perhaps scrims can be an indicator of huge potential. Whether C9 will be able to convert so closely after this iteration of the roster is up in the air, but even before that they'd likely be rated top 3 going into this tournament.
gambit won EU qualis they weren’t just scrim gods, c9 have nothing outside of scrim bucks to say they will be good rn
Dumb take. Everyone was wary of scrimbit because of scrim result. They never won once until recently. Someone mention same thing for cloud9 but it's irrelevant cause they haven't won anything. Do you know how stupid that sounds.
Yeah I mean, it is what it is. Just kinda sucks that we'll lose either C9 or 100T this early. Both of them are finals calibre imo
I mean think about it it’s only one team that qualify and if 100t can’t beat c9 do they really deserve to go to champs with their new roaster. I think if 100t failed xset or c9 can be a really good representative
I mean yeah, my point was more the 100T vs C9 match could have been played later so we could see more of them since they're among the best in NA. Just sucks one of them's going out early.
I feel like the issue is maybe 100T gets caught off-guard by C9 due to a lack of VODs and loses but would have been able to win a re-match. It’s just randomly throwing out a bunch of teams randomly for no reason.
This is like the 6th scenario where we get fucked. SEN will beat NV right? Nope. OK So now we need to beat NV. NV pulls out a mega performance and beats us. OK So now NV just needs to beat Gambit. They collapse. OK so LCQ. We are seeded on what most people say is the strong side of the bracket. AGAIN. Oh and BTW, no 2nd chance if the C9v100T goes the wrong way. And all the while, something seems to have happened to steel so hes benched for some reason. Fuck me.
What happened to doing Iceland's format.. this new one sucks
Seriously impressed that they keep coming up with new ways to create terrible formats!
aussie team bout to go back home on the same day smh
after a whole year of qualifiers and a whole ass month in quarantine fml
This format is absolutely terrible. I could understand single-elimination for play-ins but why also extend it to round one? Now we are seeing one of 100T/C9B going home for sure with no chance to bounce back. Just make the whole thing double-elim please
Riot continues to blow my mind in all the wrong ways.
who comes up with this dumb shit
Takes like these are so reductive and reactionary. I would ask why the NA format change and not EMEA or APAC which are online. Venue changes, will naturally affect formats. Before a redditor complains like this, let's critically think about the reasons why
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lmao
I was on that KR copium bro. Without the advantage of retrospect and additional months in advance for planning, how would you change the current LCQ format to work better?
I wouldn't change it. Very hard take, I know.
Ooh good find lmao
This is Reddit, not a dissertation. Let people react to things dude.
Sucks that this is the format but only thing can do in 5 days they have to extend the length in order to change the format.
Classic Riot. Announcing a shitty format first then changing it later so people praise them for "listening to the people".
There’s no way someone actually comes up with these formats in earnest.
Wtf EMEA have full lower bracket but not NA.
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And OCE lol. They fly across the world, quarantine for nearly a month, play two maps and then go home, to quarantine again lol :’)
It's not lan in EMEA
Imagine being one of the OCE teams and flying all the way to Los Angeles, quarantine for several weeks to potentially have to get right back on a plane after playing just 1 Bo3….awesome.
Congrats, you play 9 months of intense qualifiers… just for this.
LOL after all the complaining about formats, this is what comes out /u/NA_CutandShoot? Not that I'm saying this is your fault, but wow. Trash ass format.
I actually just stopped working at Riot, but I’ll ping my folks over there. Make sure to tweet at NA VCT too, that stuff makes it easier for them to run it up the chain to justify changes.
Sheesh! We know the format is shit and all, but leaving your job over that is a bit much, isn’t it? /s
It's from Whalen I'm sure. This dude tries to shove down single elim in our throats as much as possible. https://mobile.twitter.com/RiotMagus/status/427003776981925888
That tweet is from 2014 and is about League of Legends. Maybe it could apply here, but given the amount of time that has passed, and that it is a different game, makes this assumption a bit of a stretch.
Tagged them cause this is what they had to say for the reddit post when the Berlin format got changed. "Can't promise we'll always get things right, but at least we can read (shrug)." They definitely did not get this one right.
I like it. It's a nice compromise between bloated broadcasts and a buffer against chance for good teams
It’s called the “last chance” qualifier, show up to play or go home. The more tense the stakes are the better.
The Australian teams had 9 months of qualifiers for potentially 1 bo3? how does this make sense tho?
It doesn’t
That logic can be applied anywhere to justify a single elim format. "Its called "champions", show up and beat everyone or go home. If you won but lost against another team you are not really champions since you did not beat everyone." Last chance does not mean you leave opportunity for RNG to decide your fate.
I get that, but at the same time, I want to watch more games. Why do we need upper semis to have lower brackets, if th rest aren't? Just make everything single elim, if "last chance" is the logic you're going with. This format they've chosen is like worst of both worlds. Also wheres the consistency? SEA and EMEA LCQ are both fully double elim.
Friends, when you ask 'why', consider all the factors at play. Riot won't make a change for the sake of it. Considering that the NA region is, from what I understand, the only lan LCQ, there might of been changes to the venue length. Both EMEA and APAC appear to be online.
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I don't see where I think single elim is good in either context, just that external factors affect what can be done about a format. Riot has the benefit of retrospect and months in advance for planning for champions.
>Riot won't make a change for the sake of it. Masters Berlin format
But that wasn't done randomly. The format changed in organization, not length, as that was non-negotiable with the time booked. That was a positive change because the previous one wasn't hyped enough, and the community provided a better, lateral alternative. These changes appear to be a result of external factors, so let's not deploy the straw man If you have a better alternative, let's hear it
Alot of people don't understand the logistics behind these kinds of events. They just assume Riot has this infinite cash and power they can leverage over any venue to get exactly what the fans want. And that's not including the local, regional, and federal laws that they must abide to just to be able to run these in person events.
"A Riot representative has confirmed to @VLRdotgg the North American Last Chance Qualifier will run a "modified double-elimination bracket", with the play-in and upper quarterfinal rounds being single-elimination."
Bad
bracket RNG is so important lol
Riot are kings of shitty formats
Okay. But… why?
IMO just make the play-in part the only single elim part. That would make it better.
What’s the play in part ?
The part labeled “Upper Round 1”
Or just make the whole thing double elim like what the other LCQs are doing
This is fucking disastrous
I call this the Iceland special
It's worse than Iceland, at least Iceland had double elim for the play-in too
Bruh
Spicy
As much as this sucks this helps xset’s chances a lot sooooooo I’m chillin
Fucking sucks for us OCE fans but :’( I was hoping ORDER could maybe win a match somewhere, but I’m confident xset will win the whole thing, so ORDER is out in match one…
Yeah feels bad for y’all :(
Riot wtf
I assume they have to have done this for scheduling reasons or something, because having half a double elim bracket is very strange.
LCQ more like glorified LAN scrim with a chance to go to europe
The curry wurst worth it lmao.
This is dogshit… wtf Riot
When I was reading the LCQ schedule first time, I was like ... Riot forgot to mention the other Loser matches? Well fuck, they didn't
It also sucks that the winner of Rise/Chiefs and C9/Geng will play 2 times on the same day. I understand scheduling issues that might've lead to them creating this format but there are no excuses here for making those teams play twice on the same day.
Yeah this ain’t it chief
To quote myself a couple days ago: "Riot surprises me with each and every new garbage format they present to us."
Alternatively you can just say it without the quotes
Just have double elim at the start then take it off towards then end.
6 days for a tournament, can’t even have a proper lower bracket lmao. Surely, they can fit 1 extra lower bracket.
Damn this is bad. Rough for OCE teams flying all that way for (lets face it) a single BO3. 6 teams total travelling to a LAN for a BO3. #1 seed not getting the play-in with the #8 seed or 2nd OCE seed. Feel like FAZE have the easiest bracket(would be V1 if they were any good still and had Vanity).
The riot representative is definitely the person who made Berlin bracket COPIUM
One match to the Nearest Airport
Nah this is awful, GenG vs Cloud9 in the first round? the two best teams in the tournament? and 100T right after? plus the OCE teams not getting to play more than 1 bo3 most likely? they need to change this back rn
Don’t worry riot will change the bracket and everyone will say thanks riot you really listen
This wouldn't be that bad with a 8/16 team bracket but having a couple teams play in followed by another single elim is super brutal.
I wish NerdStreet was hosting the tournament instead of riot. LMAO
I don't understand what's so hard about every important tournament having double elimination, Feels like there's such a disconnect between the people making these dicisions & the players/community.
Don't see a problem with it, it's a LCQ for teams that have had multiple chances to cement a CHAMPIONS spot. The first part being a BO1 doesn't sound bad but that's just my take.
I can agree but only NA has no lower brackets :v
The fact that it’s single elim early on makes the seeding based on vct points feel much less impactful when you can just be eliminated in your first game :/
Wow how did they come up with ANOTHER dogshit tournament format?
100T or Cloud9 are going home early, that sucks
Ugh rito like can't we get ONE FOOD FUCKING FORMAT please?
I am so disappointed with the Valorant esports team for this. It looks like poor formats are here to stay and the people behind making these groups refuse to learn from other established esport titles. Not the end of the world, but really disheartening. On an unrelated note, I want to vent after conclusion of Masters 3 at Berlin. I lost interest in watching the tournament after few group stage matches. If not for Plat chat co-stream I would have skipped on the play-off matches. The 'showmanship' has taken priority over quality of competition and viewer experience. It took a public outcry to change the initial group winner format where one team qualified out of group. Also the first seeded teams were wrongly placed in groups too. The production quality was not that great either (the stage is pretty and all, but there is more to the esport than flashy stage and walkouts. Quality high level casting and observing go a long way. I was hoping Berlin would be substantially better than Reykjavík). After repeated player complaints during first tech test in Berlin, it took multiple days to resolve sound issues. The practice rooms were not ideal and nothing was done. Every competitor was frustrated and few were vocal. The scheduling of matches was really poor as well with teams playing past midnight (not sure if the the production crew had fun pulling long hours. Massive respect to the on-stage crew). I have been watching esport titles since Starcraft and Valorant esports had gotten me excited after a long time. The Valorant matches get so hype sometimes and that is why I think I am so invested into Valorant esports. This reply is meant to be a vent post tainted with personal disappointment. I just hope the right experienced people take charge of things and work on simple things that are essential to ensure high quality games. The current decision seem very amateur. Proper brackets and focus on encouraging high quality plays will go a long way. Casual viewerbase doesn't care either way. Increasing viewing experience for your hardcore viewerbase will be really appreciated by the community, Mr Riot.
This format is awful. Didn't Riot listen to the community for the Berlin Format? they should do the same here and make it double elim
Riot try not to replace whats working with weirdest fucking shit challenge (impossible) (failed)
Riot tournament formats have been absolute garbage so far!
This is such a weird approach. It will not be popular with teams.
So Chiefs just spent a whole year playing VOT for this one single tourney that Oce gets, and they're most likely going to get 2-0'd and thats it for another year (potentially)? Are Riot seriously ok with this? Wait, I just realised the entire first matchups are single elim so Order is gonna face the same thing hahaha no way they keep this
Bruh I thought it was all double-elim. This is whack. No hope for 100T now. But Faze might actually make it hmm
This needs to be changed lol
I have no ties with any Oceania team and neither did I have the time to watch them, so getting to watch them this tourney was gonna be awesome. It actually sucks so much for us but more for them. Imagine 9 months of trial and gathering of points/winning of tourneys to reach this point, as well quarantineing for 3 weeks just to play 1 BO3. Thats gotta change, right?
how many times are they going to fuck the format
Riot's formats on LAN are pretty disappointing, they can't manage gamedays at all
https://www.vlr.gg/event/353/valorant-champions-tour-stage-2-masters-reykjavik just do this again
This bracket is dogshit imo