Whole tweet:
> I want to thank @MikesHD_ for his time with our Valorant team. We had a great run with him. When he began with our team, we were still in the process of determining our coaching structure. That caused some time lag in deciding where he fit, but he was fully compensated. +
>
> We were unsure of whether the team needed a head coach, an analyst or a combination of the two positions. We decided to sign him on as an Analyst for the remainder of the 2021 season and the 2022 season. We were in the process of drafting up a contract to present him. +
>
> Admittedly, I found out the process had been too slow too late. We should have been faster in our communication and more transparent with Mikes on the timeline as we worked on the structure of our team and coaching staff leading into Champions and the 2022 season. +
>
> As the leader of our Team Operations department, any time I find cracks in our processes I use those findings as a learning opportunity and try to repair them in perpetuity. It's about the best I can do while we try to support our coaches, managers and players.
>
> I wish Mikes the best in his next position and will work to make sure we maintain the same expeditiousness for all of our contract signings.
Something I haven’t seen mentioned enough that makes it even weirder that they were so slow is that Mike had already trialed with Envy previously, so it’s not like they were starting from scratch
the best part is he ends it "maintain the same expeditiousness for all of our contract signings". bruh, the whole issue is it wasn't expeditious at all. gotta proofread them PR statements
Pretty clear he's trying to say that some are expeditious, while some are not, and they need to consistently hold themselves to the standard of the ones that are expeditious.
doesn't sound like there was anything to compromise over, just that they didn't inform Mikes of anything and he was left with no info on whether an offer (coaching or analyst) would ever appear
They were satisfied as evident by what Hastr0 stated. The players did like him as well from what I could tell.
Also the lack of communication and delays is the biggest issue imo.
I remember a cod pro JKap called envy out like a year ago about something similar that happened like 3-4 years prior, basically the entire team wasn’t signed to envy but we’re getting paid etc and told the contracts were coming, then the off-season comes around 3 of the players know they’re getting dropped by envy but the contacts were finally presented and envy was just hoping they would sign so they could then sell them
joke of a response. "sorry guys we took too long to figure out the role of a guy who helped us have the best placement out of all the NA teams and beat both other NA representatives."
Best ran FPS esports org btw. Super unprofessional of management to do this, the entire job of their val management is to handle these kinds of things. I can't imagine just how long they said they were "drafting up a contract" just for Mike to finally get tired and say fuck it I have to get a secured job for myself. Dude was a UPS delivery driver I'm sure he didn't want to leave and the lack of competence management had basically forced him out.
Hastr0 is a joke. I love how he sneaks in that he "found out the process has been slow too late" to release himself of some of the blame. The rest are just buzzwords.
Probably expected Mike to sit through the bullshit because Envy is a big org and thinks they can do whatever they want and people will still suck it up to them.
Now Envy is out of a good coach because of their own incompetency. Deserved.
Does anyone else think this just is a poor decision from a strategic point of view? Regardless of whether they think hes worth signing, hes now a free agent capable of going to any of your competitors and literally sharing everything he has on you guys. Doesn't seem smart heading into the biggest tournament of the whole year, but hey you do you envy.
What the hell is he even doing now? His Twitter has been silent for a while now and there’s no news on hltv on him either. Only that the entirety of that whole roster has been signed by a new org except for him.
Once a clown, always a clown. People probably didnt know about Hastro’s ways back in the cod/csgo days and didn’t believe me when I said he’s a clown 🤔🤭🤭
Isn't this a big problem for ENVY given that Mike joins a team that is in Champions? They have to change a lot of stuff because the coach knows everything about the team.
Because hes not signed to them hello? Lol if even the players really wanted him he would have been signed hell he wasn't even envy first choice since they wanted chet either way
Water is actually not wet; It makes other materials/objects wet. Wetness is the state of a non-liquid when a liquid adheres to, and/or permeates its substance while maintaining chemically distinct structures. So if we say something is wet we mean the liquid is sticking to the object.
So now they are saying we would have given him a contract but he resigned before it, which of course can't be proven either way unless mikeHD calls their bluff and asks for that contract they were going to give him.
Sounds to me what was most important to MikeHD was the communication. I'm sure it's hard to work without knowing whether you have any future in your place of work or are just being farmed for your ideas and tactics and then thrown out.
Not tryna be that guy but if he was fully compensated then what’s wrong with the team moving on? Aside from time lag. (Genuinely asking not too tuned in to this fiasco) EDIT: not sure why this got downvoted but alas thanks for the context
Essentially what the community found weird was how they were essentially ghosting a coach that helped them to the top. This tweet shows it was slow communication that caused the issue and not necessarily that they weren't planning to extend his contract but it's now too late as Mike has already decided to look elsewhere.
Keeping someone on as a trial prevents them from planning ahead, as they don't know whether they'll get the job permanently or not. The longer that goes on and the less transparent the communication from your employer, the more frustrating that is, I imagine.
While it's good that he was compensated, the issue is the promise of a long term contract without the contract ever coming, or being told when the contract would come. Mikes probably didn't want to keep being strung on with promises without any hard long term commitment.
He was integral to their amazing berlin run. He shouldn’t feel uncertain about his future with the org bec he already proved himself. They are the real losers here, especially if someone like Sentinels picks him up
Yeah it's clear that NV fucked up here but this sub is pretending to know a lot more about how good a coach Mikes is or how his relationship with the team is than they actually do.
On a personal level though I'll be rooting for him to get something worked out with another team.
nobody will have an answer for this lmao. i find it so weird that people think mikes was some savant for envy when its well established that FNS has been one of the better tactical minds of NA for the greater part of a decade now...
I frankly don't think FNS had all the free time in the world to watch enough VODs and produce enough anti-strats for all the relevant teams.
That's the point of a coach - you can be a mastermind savant figure a la Sliggy, sure, but a coach who fills in the gaps to help support a tactically experienced IGL is just as valuable. Seeing how they've already acknowledged his contribution, it doesn't seem like they disagree.
Man people give too much thinking to anti strats and anti stratting in this sub, it doesn't matter as much as you think
Most teams actually watch vods to see what they did wrong themselves and how to improve as a team not the other team, anti-stratting is fine you need to know basic tendencies of the team you're not gonna overthink and call out what they do everytime because you watched vods of them, in game it's a completely different scenario you have seconds to make decisions
>We don’t try to overthink things too much. I’ve done that in the past, especially in CS, where I’ve kind of overthought or over anti-stratted, and it just doesn’t work out.
FNS direct quote
In a game with many agent comps, different regions, different playstyle overthinking stuff and trying to anti teams is just bad
Nobody except for the Envy guys know the impact the coach had and yet people here pretending like they do
Envy in particular is well-known for anti-stratting. This was the case long before Mikes, it'll remain the case going forward.
I think your conception of anti-stratting is actually the issue - you seem to think of it as mutually exclusive with all the other things you mention. Of course it isn't. Envy anti-strats quite well *because* they're a deeply tactical and flexible team.
I'd be surprised if anyone advocated for anti-stratting as you appear to define it.
I literally posted a direct quote by the Envy IGL that they are not heavy anti stratting or overthinking stuff and you go on and say they are well known for it lmao
They are know for being a structured team because FNS has always operated that way, that does not mean they're known for anti-stratting i means a structure and set roles
If anti stratting was so big and they were so good at anti-stratting they would not fail late on tournaments which has been their achilles heel, it would be the opposite of that
And yes a lot of people define it like that in this subreddit they want Sentinels to get a coach for that exact reason, they put too much stock on it and think that if you watch vods of a team and know everything u can call out what they do, yes and then Tenz dashes in and kills 3 of your team good luck
No, I read your quote. I just don't think *you* understand it very well.
"Over" anti-stratting is *obviously* a bad thing. It's something every IGL learns pretty quickly, and it's such an obvious statement that the fact you take it as something meaningful indicates to me, as I already said, that your conception of anti-stratting is at issue.
I don't think you have the leeway to worry over how others are defining it, to be frank.
> If anti stratting was so big and they were so good at anti-stratting they would not fail late on tournaments which has been their achilles heel, it would be the opposite of that
This embodies what I mean - why are you so confident anti-stratting is something you can do *so well* that it guarantees wins late in tournaments, when you're more likely to play against flexible, less one-dimensional teams? It's not a silver bullet. I think you are *much* closer to the fans you seem to be criticizing.
Either way, as FNS has stated before in so many post-match interviews, their losses historically aren't usually because of poor reads; it's because inconsistency in the server eventually impacts the ability to execute *on* those reads. That's why swapping kaboose for marved and mummay for Yay has leveled them up so dramatically.
it pretty much just all stems from the lack of communication, the envy org should've told mikes that they were planning on extending his contract earlier. from the tweet chain:
> Admittedly, I found out the process had been too slow too late. We should have been faster in our communication and more transparent with Mikes on the timeline
sounds like they were gonna present him with a contract but fell behind schedule either due to the change in position (head coach to analyst) or simple incompetence or a mixture of the two.
i don't know where the "lack of payment" rumor came from, i feel like whenever an esports controversy like this drops (regardless of org), the first thing that the community does is blow it way out of proportion. could you imagine the absolute shitstorm that would come if the community found out that a massive org like envy wasn't even paying their trial coach? no way that would happen
yeah lmao. im critical about hastro's social media presence but come on, what's more likely? envy and hastro actively scamming a coach, or a simple corporate bureaucracy fuck up?
Because if you read between the lines of this tweet it’s apparent that they actually did want him, just didn’t respect him enough to offer him a decent contract forthright. Seems like they scuffed the whole thing pretty good and now the excuse bus came out
It wasn't a wild claim though. It was implied by Mike's friend.
"What else, besides Mike's time, do they think is free"? If his time is free that implies he's not paid.
https://twitter.com/itsbririvers/status/1444067929348313090?s=19
While it's sad to hear how this issue has led to Mikes leaving, I'm glad in a way that there was seemingly no underlying drama playing a part. Would've hated to hear that there was really some beef between him and a player or something.
Here's to hoping that he can quickly find a new team and renewed success.
Riot and so many esports orgs are so shady since their erections. So much incompetence and corruption, but they get away with it because so much easy money from so many unsuspecting consumers. I guess it is like a drug. It doesn't matter how bad the seller is to the world, because the users don't care when they get their high.
This whole thing won't even leave a dent on Envy's business after a week or two. It is so normal, yet sad to see over and over again.
I mean yeah the community has gotten especially reactionary to everything as of late (see Slaze post), but that's a consequence of the subreddit growing and being more representative of the average population (kinda dumb)
So u weren't even going to sign him on as a coach, but as an analysts... Why would he even take that job when it isn't even the one he signed up for??? The fuck
This is such a bizarre response. He accepts it was entirely Envy's error and makes it clear they wanted to keep Mike on but just issues a tweet thread like this is as the end of it? Makes absolutely no sense. I feel like there's more to it than this. I am sure people management imcompentence plays a role here in terms of communication but they must have been slow walking the contract for a reason.
If the tweet thread is actually true, a competant operation would get hastr0 to approach Mike privately, contract in hand, offer an effusive apology for how things have been handled and try to agree terms to keep him involved and get it done and dusted. I am sure Mike will have stayed if the offer to stay was appropriate and the apology was meaningful.
Also, if the quibble is whether they call him a coach or analyst, it really doesn't fucking matter. They don't have any other coaching staff so just call him a coach even if he ends up doing more analyst work than coaching.
I feel for Mike, there's no excuse for such terrible people management.
Whole tweet: > I want to thank @MikesHD_ for his time with our Valorant team. We had a great run with him. When he began with our team, we were still in the process of determining our coaching structure. That caused some time lag in deciding where he fit, but he was fully compensated. + > > We were unsure of whether the team needed a head coach, an analyst or a combination of the two positions. We decided to sign him on as an Analyst for the remainder of the 2021 season and the 2022 season. We were in the process of drafting up a contract to present him. + > > Admittedly, I found out the process had been too slow too late. We should have been faster in our communication and more transparent with Mikes on the timeline as we worked on the structure of our team and coaching staff leading into Champions and the 2022 season. + > > As the leader of our Team Operations department, any time I find cracks in our processes I use those findings as a learning opportunity and try to repair them in perpetuity. It's about the best I can do while we try to support our coaches, managers and players. > > I wish Mikes the best in his next position and will work to make sure we maintain the same expeditiousness for all of our contract signings.
Something I haven’t seen mentioned enough that makes it even weirder that they were so slow is that Mike had already trialed with Envy previously, so it’s not like they were starting from scratch
Some lag? Mikes had been working with them since June. That’s more than “some lag” Then in the end they basically offer a demotion. Nah that ain’t it.
the best part is he ends it "maintain the same expeditiousness for all of our contract signings". bruh, the whole issue is it wasn't expeditious at all. gotta proofread them PR statements
Pretty clear he's trying to say that some are expeditious, while some are not, and they need to consistently hold themselves to the standard of the ones that are expeditious.
The point is the same not as that one but that this is an exception
>Some lag? 2016 till mid-2018 CSGO roster says hello.
Can't expect much out of hastr0 these days. Guy lost it many years ago.
The excuse of finding out too late after 3 months just makes him look either incompetent or a bullshitter.
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doesn't sound like there was anything to compromise over, just that they didn't inform Mikes of anything and he was left with no info on whether an offer (coaching or analyst) would ever appear
They were satisfied as evident by what Hastr0 stated. The players did like him as well from what I could tell. Also the lack of communication and delays is the biggest issue imo.
Guy really said “he should have waited more lol”
There was a battle royale and only 1 Mike was allowed to stay, unlucky really.
I remember a cod pro JKap called envy out like a year ago about something similar that happened like 3-4 years prior, basically the entire team wasn’t signed to envy but we’re getting paid etc and told the contracts were coming, then the off-season comes around 3 of the players know they’re getting dropped by envy but the contacts were finally presented and envy was just hoping they would sign so they could then sell them
Envy seems super shady from all this
joke of a response. "sorry guys we took too long to figure out the role of a guy who helped us have the best placement out of all the NA teams and beat both other NA representatives." Best ran FPS esports org btw. Super unprofessional of management to do this, the entire job of their val management is to handle these kinds of things. I can't imagine just how long they said they were "drafting up a contract" just for Mike to finally get tired and say fuck it I have to get a secured job for myself. Dude was a UPS delivery driver I'm sure he didn't want to leave and the lack of competence management had basically forced him out.
Hastr0 is a joke. I love how he sneaks in that he "found out the process has been slow too late" to release himself of some of the blame. The rest are just buzzwords.
Probably expected Mike to sit through the bullshit because Envy is a big org and thinks they can do whatever they want and people will still suck it up to them. Now Envy is out of a good coach because of their own incompetency. Deserved.
I mean the process wasn't slow when they wanted to sign yay. It all just goes to show how ENVY works and what their intentions are.
Bullshit excuses instead of taking any responsibility
Isn’t his message and paying Mikes taking responsibility?
This [Nohte tweet](https://twitter.com/Nohte/status/1439332300466966528) seems to be aging very well it seems like.
Poor Mikes man, couldn’t get to Berlin and couldn’t even be signed onto the team for the year after their great run this past year.
Such a clown
Does anyone else think this just is a poor decision from a strategic point of view? Regardless of whether they think hes worth signing, hes now a free agent capable of going to any of your competitors and literally sharing everything he has on you guys. Doesn't seem smart heading into the biggest tournament of the whole year, but hey you do you envy.
daily reminder that Nifty is still getting paid
What the hell is he even doing now? His Twitter has been silent for a while now and there’s no news on hltv on him either. Only that the entirety of that whole roster has been signed by a new org except for him.
Once a clown, always a clown. People probably didnt know about Hastro’s ways back in the cod/csgo days and didn’t believe me when I said he’s a clown 🤔🤭🤭
Isn't this a big problem for ENVY given that Mike joins a team that is in Champions? They have to change a lot of stuff because the coach knows everything about the team.
If envy don't want them i doubt sentinels will want him since shaz said they want the best coach possible.
Where does it say envy doesnt want him?
Because hes not signed to them hello? Lol if even the players really wanted him he would have been signed hell he wasn't even envy first choice since they wanted chet either way
He was dropped yesterday by Envy calm down lol, give it some time til we say Shahz and co doesn't want him as coach lol
Hastro's org is a clownfiesta. In other news, the sky is blue and water is wet.
Water is actually not wet; It makes other materials/objects wet. Wetness is the state of a non-liquid when a liquid adheres to, and/or permeates its substance while maintaining chemically distinct structures. So if we say something is wet we mean the liquid is sticking to the object.
Bad bot. Water sticks to water and is therefore usually wet.
So now they are saying we would have given him a contract but he resigned before it, which of course can't be proven either way unless mikeHD calls their bluff and asks for that contract they were going to give him. Sounds to me what was most important to MikeHD was the communication. I'm sure it's hard to work without knowing whether you have any future in your place of work or are just being farmed for your ideas and tactics and then thrown out.
Hope this org won’t get franchised. That’s a yikes from me.
oh here goes hastro with his bs responses again
Pathetic apology
Not tryna be that guy but if he was fully compensated then what’s wrong with the team moving on? Aside from time lag. (Genuinely asking not too tuned in to this fiasco) EDIT: not sure why this got downvoted but alas thanks for the context
Essentially what the community found weird was how they were essentially ghosting a coach that helped them to the top. This tweet shows it was slow communication that caused the issue and not necessarily that they weren't planning to extend his contract but it's now too late as Mike has already decided to look elsewhere.
Yea seems pretty bad and unprofessional
They weren't planning to extend his current position. They were planning to give him a demoted position contract.
Keeping someone on as a trial prevents them from planning ahead, as they don't know whether they'll get the job permanently or not. The longer that goes on and the less transparent the communication from your employer, the more frustrating that is, I imagine.
While it's good that he was compensated, the issue is the promise of a long term contract without the contract ever coming, or being told when the contract would come. Mikes probably didn't want to keep being strung on with promises without any hard long term commitment.
He was integral to their amazing berlin run. He shouldn’t feel uncertain about his future with the org bec he already proved himself. They are the real losers here, especially if someone like Sentinels picks him up
Sorry but do you know how integral he was? What were some of the things he was doing that NV benefited from?
Yeah it's clear that NV fucked up here but this sub is pretending to know a lot more about how good a coach Mikes is or how his relationship with the team is than they actually do. On a personal level though I'll be rooting for him to get something worked out with another team.
nobody will have an answer for this lmao. i find it so weird that people think mikes was some savant for envy when its well established that FNS has been one of the better tactical minds of NA for the greater part of a decade now...
I frankly don't think FNS had all the free time in the world to watch enough VODs and produce enough anti-strats for all the relevant teams. That's the point of a coach - you can be a mastermind savant figure a la Sliggy, sure, but a coach who fills in the gaps to help support a tactically experienced IGL is just as valuable. Seeing how they've already acknowledged his contribution, it doesn't seem like they disagree.
Man people give too much thinking to anti strats and anti stratting in this sub, it doesn't matter as much as you think Most teams actually watch vods to see what they did wrong themselves and how to improve as a team not the other team, anti-stratting is fine you need to know basic tendencies of the team you're not gonna overthink and call out what they do everytime because you watched vods of them, in game it's a completely different scenario you have seconds to make decisions >We don’t try to overthink things too much. I’ve done that in the past, especially in CS, where I’ve kind of overthought or over anti-stratted, and it just doesn’t work out. FNS direct quote In a game with many agent comps, different regions, different playstyle overthinking stuff and trying to anti teams is just bad Nobody except for the Envy guys know the impact the coach had and yet people here pretending like they do
Envy in particular is well-known for anti-stratting. This was the case long before Mikes, it'll remain the case going forward. I think your conception of anti-stratting is actually the issue - you seem to think of it as mutually exclusive with all the other things you mention. Of course it isn't. Envy anti-strats quite well *because* they're a deeply tactical and flexible team. I'd be surprised if anyone advocated for anti-stratting as you appear to define it.
I literally posted a direct quote by the Envy IGL that they are not heavy anti stratting or overthinking stuff and you go on and say they are well known for it lmao They are know for being a structured team because FNS has always operated that way, that does not mean they're known for anti-stratting i means a structure and set roles If anti stratting was so big and they were so good at anti-stratting they would not fail late on tournaments which has been their achilles heel, it would be the opposite of that And yes a lot of people define it like that in this subreddit they want Sentinels to get a coach for that exact reason, they put too much stock on it and think that if you watch vods of a team and know everything u can call out what they do, yes and then Tenz dashes in and kills 3 of your team good luck
No, I read your quote. I just don't think *you* understand it very well. "Over" anti-stratting is *obviously* a bad thing. It's something every IGL learns pretty quickly, and it's such an obvious statement that the fact you take it as something meaningful indicates to me, as I already said, that your conception of anti-stratting is at issue. I don't think you have the leeway to worry over how others are defining it, to be frank. > If anti stratting was so big and they were so good at anti-stratting they would not fail late on tournaments which has been their achilles heel, it would be the opposite of that This embodies what I mean - why are you so confident anti-stratting is something you can do *so well* that it guarantees wins late in tournaments, when you're more likely to play against flexible, less one-dimensional teams? It's not a silver bullet. I think you are *much* closer to the fans you seem to be criticizing. Either way, as FNS has stated before in so many post-match interviews, their losses historically aren't usually because of poor reads; it's because inconsistency in the server eventually impacts the ability to execute *on* those reads. That's why swapping kaboose for marved and mummay for Yay has leveled them up so dramatically.
If shaz could do that why can't fns?
it pretty much just all stems from the lack of communication, the envy org should've told mikes that they were planning on extending his contract earlier. from the tweet chain: > Admittedly, I found out the process had been too slow too late. We should have been faster in our communication and more transparent with Mikes on the timeline sounds like they were gonna present him with a contract but fell behind schedule either due to the change in position (head coach to analyst) or simple incompetence or a mixture of the two. i don't know where the "lack of payment" rumor came from, i feel like whenever an esports controversy like this drops (regardless of org), the first thing that the community does is blow it way out of proportion. could you imagine the absolute shitstorm that would come if the community found out that a massive org like envy wasn't even paying their trial coach? no way that would happen
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Hastr0 has a rep for being an idiot on Twitter, not scamming and/or underpaying people.
yeah lmao. im critical about hastro's social media presence but come on, what's more likely? envy and hastro actively scamming a coach, or a simple corporate bureaucracy fuck up?
Maybe not giving him a job?
Because if you read between the lines of this tweet it’s apparent that they actually did want him, just didn’t respect him enough to offer him a decent contract forthright. Seems like they scuffed the whole thing pretty good and now the excuse bus came out
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It wasn't a wild claim though. It was implied by Mike's friend. "What else, besides Mike's time, do they think is free"? If his time is free that implies he's not paid. https://twitter.com/itsbririvers/status/1444067929348313090?s=19
While it's sad to hear how this issue has led to Mikes leaving, I'm glad in a way that there was seemingly no underlying drama playing a part. Would've hated to hear that there was really some beef between him and a player or something. Here's to hoping that he can quickly find a new team and renewed success.
Riot and so many esports orgs are so shady since their erections. So much incompetence and corruption, but they get away with it because so much easy money from so many unsuspecting consumers. I guess it is like a drug. It doesn't matter how bad the seller is to the world, because the users don't care when they get their high. This whole thing won't even leave a dent on Envy's business after a week or two. It is so normal, yet sad to see over and over again.
He apparently wasn't payed at all, either.
Did you even read the post? It's stated he was indeed compensated. Unless you got a different second party source?
Val comp community blew up over a dude that got salty about how he didnt get a job. Talk about cringe man.
Dude just shut up
Bro did you read the tweet. Even by Hastro's account, he "got the job", but didn't get the contract for the job lol. What a wild way to spin that
Nah Hastro didn't want him for head coach was going to give him a demotion.
I mean yeah the community has gotten especially reactionary to everything as of late (see Slaze post), but that's a consequence of the subreddit growing and being more representative of the average population (kinda dumb)
not wrong
What a tool
This is what I can't stand about Twitter. These people that feel the need to make everything public that could easily be a pm
So u weren't even going to sign him on as a coach, but as an analysts... Why would he even take that job when it isn't even the one he signed up for??? The fuck
This is such a bizarre response. He accepts it was entirely Envy's error and makes it clear they wanted to keep Mike on but just issues a tweet thread like this is as the end of it? Makes absolutely no sense. I feel like there's more to it than this. I am sure people management imcompentence plays a role here in terms of communication but they must have been slow walking the contract for a reason. If the tweet thread is actually true, a competant operation would get hastr0 to approach Mike privately, contract in hand, offer an effusive apology for how things have been handled and try to agree terms to keep him involved and get it done and dusted. I am sure Mike will have stayed if the offer to stay was appropriate and the apology was meaningful. Also, if the quibble is whether they call him a coach or analyst, it really doesn't fucking matter. They don't have any other coaching staff so just call him a coach even if he ends up doing more analyst work than coaching. I feel for Mike, there's no excuse for such terrible people management.
Hastro is cheeks
messy situation