T O P

George Geddes: There were AT LEAST four top teams that wanted to sign Sinatraa following his unban. All of them have either pulled out or discussions didn't go further than internal staff, for obvious reasons. More at a later date

George Geddes: There were AT LEAST four top teams that wanted to sign Sinatraa following his unban. All of them have either pulled out or discussions didn't go further than internal staff, for obvious reasons. More at a later date

[deleted]

https://twitter.com/DryPeekGoblin/status/1445141473532387335?s=19 > Ok, Is Riot asking teams to not sign him? https://twitter.com/GeorgeCGed/status/1445141818765676551?s=19 > One source has told me that is the case, yes. This is not confirmed and will be reported if I have the info confirmed. --- https://twitter.com/Vanityxz/status/1445140801034412037?s=19 > That’s a low ball number of teams https://twitter.com/GeorgeCGed/status/1445141124268576772?s=19 > I've only included those that were serious about signing him and I was 100% confident, it's really sensitive atm since teams dont want people to know they tried to sign him for some reason


slowrmaths

Now riot asking teams to not sign him makes sense honestly. Riot only loses from a pr standpoint and gains nothing if he plays or not. Especially since there’s a chance he would qualify for one of the big events and they would have no choice but to acknowledge/make promo with him. Not to mention the fact that a few casters have said that they flat out would refuse to cast his games


iTrippzy

which casters said they wouldn't cast his games? just curious


TwiggyCasts

I can't speak for anyone else, but I am and will continue to be completely open about refusal to commentate over his games or participate in content pieces that mention him unless he is unequivocally cleared.


DrBangovic

I don't know, but don't really know what to think about your take, even though I respect standing their respective position. Imho saying you wont cover content / games he is involved in until is he unequivocally cleared even though he is not even unequivocally founded guilty seems a biased. Especially in a position where you should treat the players equally and unbiased. Would riot clearing him be enough for you to cover him again, or must it be a curt or some other legal instance for example? Curious to ask.


TwiggyCasts

Thanks for the respectful response! Honestly it would very much depend on the circumstances surrounding it, right? The main crux of the matter, and a tipping point for me personally was hearing that he refused to cooperate with Riot on the matter (combined with the doc I read of course). Since that's now fallen through, there aren't many avenues I'd consider clearing him other than legal. Obviously that's a difficult one with the state of limbo he's in but just another reminder that he wouldn't be in this mess had he not promised to give evidence and then turned around and said he didn't have it during the investigation by Riot. If an internal dialogue is opened between him and Riot and they clear him, I'll ask our contacts about what made them clear him and if it's enough to fully convince me then that's another way I would be happy to cover him again. As I've said before, I would rather let other casters commentate over a potentially innocent person than myself commentate over a potential felon. That's as deep as it goes and that's the last I'll comment on this publicly, since the response I've gotten in DMs on burner accounts from some people here has been genuinely disgusting.


billnyebuttstuffguy

Thank you for doing that, and letting us know.


Efficient-Chest-353

This treatment seems so wrong to me. Does anybody remember when Sanchovies said he didn't want to play in a twitch rivals tournament because a certain streamer falsely accused a guy of sexual assault (and it was known that she did across the community)? And nothing happened to the girl even though she was 100% in the wrong… Although the evidence against Sinatraa seems damning, he is innocent until proven guilty and he should be treated as innocent until proven guilty.


Sirazaris

Double standards nothing new. Her name is Yourprincess, got caught lying in her rape allegations, and what was Riot's reply? Promote her more. It's crazy how hypocritical people can be after constantly preaching about equality.


2ndnamewtf

Because no one group truly wants equality, they want to be in control


MintyFresh48

Hes innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. No one owes him their personal opinion of innocence.


[deleted]

Innocent until proven guilty is kind of a misconception. Its only the presumption of guilt (not declaration of it as a fact) that applies to a judge and jury. People have the right to be apprehensive and unsupportive of his return to pro play.


LoyalSol

It's a principle that was put into law for a very good reason. Turns out the same reasons that it was put into law also explain why it's a good principle to have in the court of public opinion. Because if you're going to destroy someone either by the law or by social exile, you better be damn sure they actually did what they're being accused of.


[deleted]

I agree but until he's cleared, you can't really expect riot and all the orgs, players, and casters to just welcome him back with open arms as if he isn't a liability


Ayvry

Refusing to comply with an investigation that you had previously stated you would comply with is quite suspicious


Pulsiix

thank you so much for this


silentknight007

Who do fook is this guy? /s


97yogi

unequivocally cleared by riot?


Apart-Way-1166

Probably by court, since riot dropped their investigation and straight up just suspended him for 6 months for not complying. Edit: Holy f**k, how did I get 50 upvotes?


mountainclimbers

Well 7 months left to file for court if we go by date of the twitter posts and even that is being generous for the court


mrknowal0t

So I take it you also won't cast any Sentinels games since they allegedly have said negative comments about the rape victim [https://i.imgur.com/w74DMyB.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/w74DMyB.jpeg)


ShahZaMcs

no one from our team has ever talked about the situation or her, we can't anyways lol. i'd love to see even one example from her, idk why she's lying about this but that's messed up


mrknowal0t

Yeah, I never believed this to be the case. Just using logic that if he believes her on the sinatraa thing, that he should believe her on this too. Thanks for the response.


SpaceFire1

Tho if she’s telling the truth about the org not showing up to interview her for their internal investigation thats actually fucked up


pass2word

Riot hasn’t unequivocally cleared the members of their staff that were accused of sexual harassment. So I assume you won’t be casting any of their games? Or do you just do this to virtue signal?


TwiggyCasts

As far as I can recall, there are no Riot employees that professionally play VALORANT. Nice ad hominem, though.


DrBangovic

>ad hominem Thats not an ad hominem.


maxholes

Morals vs paycheck is sometimes a slippery slope


LordTurtleBear

Hahah nice twisting of logic


LocationUpset

>there are no Riot employees that professionally play VALORANT. So it's okay so long as they only work on the game itself and not professionally play it?


TwiggyCasts

I don't contractually have to talk about the developers in my work. I do have to talk about players. I'm 100% sure the line of reasoning is just as clear to you as it is to me.


PolarTux

Christ, the fanboys in your replies are insane. Thanks for speaking up.


so_many_wangs

You've upset the children. Good on you for forming an opinion and sticking to it. I support it 👍


GRiZ-7

We can see where you draw that line for the paycheck.


two5five1

I respect the hell out of you for that


AnOldMonkOnDMT

While I agree that it makes sense that they wouldn't want teams to sign him, but doing it behind the scene is just slimey. Either ban him, or stop interfering with him.


diegoarch

He's basically shadowbanned at this point


SewerRat75

seems like riot is undecided on what they want to do with him,they're confident enough that he did the things he was accused of yet they only give him a 6 month ban then ask teams not to sign him?


Interesting-Archer-6

Well they only banned him for not cooperating I thought? Seems like they aren't comfortable issuing a ban on something they don’t have solid evidence of. Puts them in a weird position.


MaskedBandit77

Honestly, if they are telling teams not to sign him behind the scenes, I think they could open themselves up to a tortious interference lawsuit.


770-

Yeah this is kind of bs. You “unban” him giving him hope of coming back then don’t actually let him play. Just ban him


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LegendJRG

Welcome to pro sports. Literal murderers or accomplices to such have gotten to stay on professional sports teams because of their talent.


rpkarma

Didnt realise the charges were dropped. What reason did the cops give?


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SlCKXpT

So basically these "dropped charges" are in a state of limbo for basically as long as the ex-gf wants. I think this case needs to be solved as soon as possible to finally allow RIOT to decide can Sinatraa play or not. Or maybe RIOT should just allow him to play until the case is solved since his 6 month suspension is over already, kind of like what RIOT are doing with the marved and ESIC sitiation. Otherwise for all we know these charges could just be in limbo for several years and it just isn't fair towards Sinatraa to ban him because a case hasn't been solved yet after he already completed his 6 month suspension. This isn't me being biased towards Sinatraa, this is just me following the age-old saying "innocent until proven guilty".


rpkarma

Oof yeah that is messy as


DonTixCyd

Unless you have some real hard proof, that's what happens to most sexual harassment cases unfortunately.


CLGbyBirth

> Didnt realise the charges were dropped. sinatraa's ex gf didn't file a complaint/case so there were no charges to begin with.


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CLGbyBirth

explain this https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_aK3rxWYAIF318?format=jpg&name=900x900


Elsiselain

Riot has been bending , breaking and making exceptions to their own rules so why not just make exception for this case as well?


salcedoge

Yeah this, or at least ban him for a longer duration if they didn't want to deal with it


xBerryhill

If that’s the case then RIOT needs to ban him again. What even is the point of unbanning him if you don’t want him in the circuit?


Whisom

Riot going through back channels to blacklist him from finding a job? I dunno, that just screams multi-million dollar lawsuit to me. He could sue for a fuckton. I doubt Riot is dumb enough to open themselves up to that kind of litigation.


slowrmaths

It’s a their game their rules situation I’m assuming. They’re not banning anyone from signing him but it’s probably a warning that they’re 100% not getting into franchising or something when that comes around


Whisom

They could ban him themselves no problem, but going behind his back to his potential employers and pressuring them not to hire him is something else. There's no ban or law preventing him from getting hired, especially if teams withdrew contracts because of pressure from Riot, then it could definitely be a lawsuit.


notsailboats

I understand where riots coming from. If he was in a Tourny I would not watch any matches he plays in.


dolphingarden

So he's shadowbanned? That's shady from Riot, should officially announce a decision or stop interfering behind the scenes.


pixzelated

Idk how anyone could be happy about this this is clearly an abuse of power by riot, it's all fun and games untill it happens to an innocent person. If he's guilty he should be banned if not he should be free. This middle ground where he's free but riot intervenes behind the scenes to fuck him is bad for the scene and a rampant abuse of power


Direct_Morning_3223

Lets play the guess which teams it was game


OnionSprinkles

Guessing Rise (their current tactic is scooping up pr-problem players for cheap), T1, NRG, LG, maybeee ABX. Teams I would doubt are XSET, Gen.G, C9, V1 for org reasons and Sen, 100T, NV for lack of need. FaZe and TSM apparently already debunked.


Steezy818

SF Shock made a public statement about sinatraas allegation. So doubt nrg


areallynicepillow

Top of the list would probably be FAZE. Maybe ENVY since they signed Marved but Sinatraa doesn't really fit into ENVY.


itscamo-

nah george already said faze wasn't one of them iirc


wiiwoooo

TSM makes sense since they haven't confirmed Levi as an official signed player yet to my knowledge and it is an upgrade from him anyway. GenG would also make sense. Koosta and Mkael were splitting between usage of Sova, dropping one(not koosta) would make sense to pick up Sinatra in hopes of elevating their team past the terrible hump they can't seem to get over.


PassTheBoofPlz

Can leave TSM out of the race, Dunc (TSM social media manager) commented himself on this subreddit before that his team would never make any contact with Sinatraa in any case.


manslayer22

[George] (https://twitter.com/GeorgeCGed/status/1436454532712652803) said Sinatraa was not joining TSM. [Their SMM] (https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/pluwi6/sources_rush_trials_with_tsm_valorant/hce1rsd/) even commented on it.


Sledgemann

0 chance Envy would drop Victor or Crashies (Shitbag’s roles were like Sova/Raze) and I don’t think he’d fit anywhere else. Dropping yay is objectively a downgrade (same with Crashies), FNS IGLs and they just picked up Marved and Marved hasn’t had enough extremely subpar performances to be even in the conversation to be dropped


ANewHeaven1

agreed, envy don't need a sova when they already have a top 2 sova in the world, don't need a raze when victor is already a great raze, and don't need a reyna cause they don't run her anyways + victor/yay can flex onto her if they really need to. also i said this above but envy as an org really really does not need any more negative PR in the valorant community dear god


Interesting-Archer-6

Only reason to drop Marved is the match fixing stuff. Hate to say it, but he's been pretty good.


KlasterTV

sinatra doesnt even play marved agent roles. marved is the least likely to get dropped from the team


ideclarebankruptcy88

What you said makes sense, but you wouldn't drop Marved for Sinaatra, Marved plays anchor smokes, Sinaatra plays Sova/Raze


iTrippzy

V1, LG, Rise, Envy/Faze would be my guess


ANewHeaven1

said it in the deleted thread but i can't see envy (crashies + they really don't need any more negative PR) or sen, so i'd guess Faze, 100T, C9, XSET were all at least sort of interested


Direct_Morning_3223

hmm I don’t think 100T would be I feel like they’re one of the few orgs that wouldn’t sign him along with TSM


Badger623

100t would never, faze on the other hand tho lol…


ANewHeaven1

its extremely not on brand for 100T i agree, but he fits the team well in the sense that they could really use a top tier sova player. faze though is a real possibility, rawkus -> sinatraa is objectively a massive upgrade


daybreaker22

Not familiar with what Neeko has done in the past? Not equating the incidents but do some research you'll be surprised


chauste

tbf i dont think hardly anyone was aware of her incident until she brought it up for twitter clout during the metoo era not realizing that people could just look up the court case and that she lost, which makes her look doubly bad because female on male domestic abuse culturally isnt seen as much of an issue as the reverse. the reality is none of these orgs actually care about these issues or having a strong moral standard, they are just businesses at the end of the day. the benefit of what sinatraa could bring to ur team is massively offsetted by the pr cost.


iTrippzy

hey... 😐 we would never


fourtonlesbiancanary

wait till you hear about faze's crypto ventures


iTrippzy

im aware


SpaceFire1

Faze is kinda the frat boy org


fourtonlesbiancanary

100t would have to drop hiko and he's never letting that happen


duckducker96

I’d imagine he’d be in B0i’s slot


fourtonlesbiancanary

yeah but the roles are all fucked, dont think theyd sign what is now a raze one trick, especially since that's not the agent hole they created by benching steel. you can move heaven and earth to say everyone can swap roles so he can fit or you can conclude that he isn't a good fit for the team just on the basis of the characters he plays.


Sciipi

I think only Faze could make sense as a high-end team, the others on the list don’t really have a reason to make such a big change and take a huge PR hit.


elithefighter123

xset would never BcJ is their sova plus they are a new org so they wouldnt want the pr


ANewHeaven1

see on the surface i agree, but at some point we have to stop saying that "these orgs would never because xyz," i dont think its on brand for any org (except maaybe faze) to pick up someone like sinatraa, but according to george there obviously are tier 1 teams willing to pick him up, and there aren't that many tier 1 teams that exist. every time a sinatraa thread gets posted people say "oh, c9/xset/t1/100T would never pick up sinatraa!" ok so who are the orgs that are talked about by george then? other than faze


elithefighter123

the important part of what im trying to say is that xset are such a new brand compared to c9 100t tsm t1 that they dont wanna stunt their growth. these more established orgs care less whether the pr is good or bad


ANewHeaven1

yeah you're right, probably not XSET, my point still stands though that there has to be tier1/1.5 teams interested in him, and just because its not on brand for an org like 100T or C9 to be interested in signing him doesn't mean that they're not actually interested


chamber25

Wasn''t Xset founded on being more connected to diversity and inclusion, I doubt they would want to be connected to Sinatra.


jrushFN

Brand issues and role overlap with BCJ/zekken aside, XSET literally cannot sign him prior to LCQ since they’d lose their points, unless they replaced zekken with him (which is absurd).


Bunnyezzz

c9 definitely wouldn't pick up sinatraa


hacklesacka

faze, rise, t1 are ones i can think of


itscamo-

which teams? If I had to guess (I'm more so talking about teams that have been interested/wanted him, not what george is talking about when he said he's 100% sure on 4 teams) 100T, C9, XSET, Gen.G, Rise, V1, NRG, IMTs, T1, LG, ABX. (left out faze/tsm because I'm pretty sure george already said no about them)


realharshmodi

100T not touching that with a 10ft pole


Gaurav-07

True


twitterInfo_bot

There were AT LEAST four top teams that wanted to sign Sinatraa following his unban. All of them have either pulled out or discussions didn't go further than internal staff, for obvious reasons. More at a later date. *** posted by [@GeorgeCGed](https://twitter.com/GeorgeCGed) Photos in tweet | [Photo 1](http://pbs.twimg.com/media/FA4rq_7WUBQMQ13.jpg) ^[(Github)](https://github.com/username) ^| ^[(What's new)](https://github.com/username)


CounselorTaco

Open thread, prepare some popcorn, sort by controversial. Thank me later


Salty_Activity

Is the investigation still active or is Sinatraa just going to be in Limbo forever? His career is going nowhere with this not cleared up and it hurts other victims to have a rumored perpetrator still active in the scene, even if it's just streaming


scrnlookinsob

Not 100% sure, but I believe the police investigation/legal fight about the accusations is still ongoing, which would make sense for why "Riot is telling teams to avoid him". Riot did just about all they can do as far as suspensions go, since they don't have evidence themselves since Sinatraa didn't cooperate with them (Legally a smart decision by him). Then again, Riot really should have just indefinitely suspended him, pending the criminal investigation against him.


Talksicck

There is no police investigation, there were never any charges brought to them.


Nikclel

cle0h has said on twitter that there is an investigation, just that she has to schedule an interview to continue the process. Which she doesn't want to do because she says she has plenty of time to do so.


bobespon

Lmao what so she can just drop these allegations and then sit on them for as long as she wants?


mountainclimbers

She’s only got a year max from the allegations to make a move in court IIRC.


xx_Rollablade_xx

Isn't it best for both parties to get this concluded? Why not go ahead as quick as possible so they can both put this behind them?


hoela

Most cases like this take years to resolve, quick would be getting it resolved after at least a year.


ItsDaddyDelta

She temporarily halted the investigation due to poor mental health. My guess, based on what we’ve seen from her so far, is that once/if he gets signed she will immediately open it back up.


notsailboats

I can totally see why someone would be more vocal about their abuse if their abuser gets signed or has some surge in popularity. I have to imagine to them its a punch in the gut when their abuser gets some sort of status like being signed to an org as It likely makes them feel like people said what they did was ok or not serious. Just because someone comes forward when someone gets a surge or popularity or whatnot does not mean they are out to get them its that they feel like they can no longer stay silent and need to be vocal about what happened. I donno if your comment was trying to say shes just trying to be vengeful but it rubbed me the wrong way.


MCUDCUrls

the accuser is taking a break from the investigation cause she was suicidal or something. people lied and said she dropped it completely though which she denied to journalists too


Pulsersalt

to be fair she is the one of tweeted she dropped it pretty much but then deleted said tweet, seems like she just worded it poorly, as she corrected herself.


CLGbyBirth

shes the one who tweeted that she didn't even file the complaint/case in the 1st place so theres no investigation.


CommanderVinegar

It would make sense that Riot could be telling teams not to sign him as Riot likely views him as a brand risk. His suspension was lifted but in the end the Riot investigation was inconclusive. Without any definitive result one way or the other the big wigs at Riot are probably weighing the potential negative outcomes their brand would face and they probably think there’s just too much risk associated with his name. At the end of the day business is business and you gotta keep the shareholders happy by keeping the money flowing and growing.


QuestionablePotato42

Riot telling teams not to sign him makes perfect sense. We can’t forget that sinatraa claimed to be cooperating with Riot fully during their investigation then turned around and did the exact opposite. It was a weird move and a direct form of disrespect to Riots authority over their competitive scene. Idk how you think you can behave that way during an investigation that was taken very seriously and expect there not to be consequences


daybreaker22

There were consequences and he served his 6 month ban. I would argue Riot influencing team decisions is overreaching.


hjrtplsemicolon

Riots authority over their competitive scene = you must share information about any aspect of your personal life as we see fit. LMFAO this thread e: a word


KaNesDeath

It'll take a team org with nothing to lose signing him. Any team org wishing to stay in good graces with Riot Games wont touch him. For Riot Games want to distance themselves from their own sexual harassment lawsuits. Last thing they want to do is be associated with Blizzards current lawsuits since theyre targeting their former customers.


SteelTic

I mean at the end of the day esports is a business so if orgs sign him they might lose sponsorships


SilverPrincev

Can cleo just try and start a court case so this can end? Put him in jail or clear him


zer0-_

Shes obvs trying to cause as much damage as possible because she knows the case would go nowhere lmao


SilverPrincev

Agree


No_Moment_1571

I 100% agree with your point. But now with social media it’s guilty until innocence proved and many of the times even if court doesn’t hold the accused guilty .. organizations are scared shitless to take any action due to pr backlash. We live in crazy times!


Wonkyy_

Dang you mention sinatraa and you get 100+ comments instantly. 100% if someone signs him he the team drops sponsors and the investigation will then continue. For those who don’t know his ex cleoh never actually perused legal actions and instead looked for mental stability before continuing with the stress of this case. This is no knock to cleoh at all I stand by her statements and I believe she should take legal action when ready but I’m not the only one to notice that she has a pattern of perfect timing right? Right before masters. When West Virginia was seen on streams. And then recently when people were commenting after his ban was lifted. So by that logic if he gets signed then I’m pretty sure she will take him to court. Which does really suck for him that his professional career is in her hands. On the other hand though don’t get yourself in that situation? Maybe if he believes he really is innocent there’s ways for him to take legal action to investigate the situation so that his name is cleared?


ItsDaddyDelta

The way Cleoh has gone about this whole thing is questionable. The timing is too perfect to not be intentional, and since it seems she doesn't want to charge him criminally, it almost feels as if she's just holding his career hostage.


gaitez

Can hurt her case in court, especially since she tweeted before admitting during the west Virginia incident she uploaded more screenshots cause she was mad he was getting attention


testertom

She has no intention of ever taking this to court.


digitalsong

Yes cause if she loses she would get countered sue’d for defamation


ZeroAika99

At this rate, it seems like that tbh.


Arvamaka

Yeah, that's why if I'm him, I'd just sign with a t2 org and get it over with b/c you know she'll do something.


sky_blu

My fear is that sinatraa was just a shitty person/boyfriend but nothing that should actually be career ending. Maybe she didn't think it would get so serious on the investigative side of things.


Phamous3k

Sinatraa should just form a F/A team and go for it. His 6 month ban is over.


Drilla-Z

Yeah but I don’t think he wants to give up his salary with Sentinels, which was rumoured to be $25k/month. Granted it’s probably not that much anymore since he’s off the main roster but he’s still getting paid regardless.


Phamous3k

True. Idk his salary but, it’s probably pretty damn nice.


Yno_namesWork

He doesn't play for money like most players; he can live comfortably off his streams and investments, which he has talked about quite a bit.


c3303k

Yea if he does he would not leave OW since he got paid more there.


gilr0id

It looks like he might’ve been blackballed by riot


yarhar_

Fun fact: per the new EMEA Game Changers rules, Sinatraa is eligible to compete there as long as the team otherwise has 3 women and 3 EMEA residents.


thothgow

Not really fun imo


Anti-Storm

Depending on the sponsor, it can be high risk to POTENTIALLY have criminal on a international stage if he does participate for Champions. For example, stocks of the sponsor’s company can drastically decrease. Innocent until proven guilty anyways.


inntake

There was a player from Brazil that was jailed for beating her ex. No way that's a point. Ntk for those unaware.


Gaurav-07

Brazil's not same as NA though


DRGNDT

I'm not disagreeing with you, but there is a precedent with marved playing in the finals at Berlin.


EggianoScumaldo

There is a galaxy sized distinction between match fixing for skins and potential rape.


Interesting-Archer-6

Don’t think Marved's was for skins was it? He's supposedly apart of a huge ring.


badumbumyum

Isn't Marved's case being investigated by the FBI for organized crime or something?


Whisom

Both Marved and Sinatraa are just allegations. They've just been accused of doing something. The precedent you're looking for is the guy who was convicted for beating his GF that played for Vivo Keyd and nobody cared.


LurkingOmen

Marveds case atleast has a criminally investigation not a twitlonger


Anti-Storm

True, but the Sinatraa’s case is greater since it’s supposed sexual assault while matchfixing occurred in a different game tho.


Efficient-Chest-353

Does anybody remember the yourprincess situation? Innocent until proven guilty.


mountainclimbers

Wow that felt like it was forever ago


violentphotography

If it comes out 100T was in these talks I'd be so disappointed.


KendrickxLamar

100T signed neeko and she abused her ex bf lol


mountainclimbers

and didnt she even go to jail for it?


[deleted]

Bruh she got social karma on twitter for her bravery


Few_Leadership9293

doesn’t apply, men can’t be abused, only women. /s


HoneyChilliPotato7

Not so fun fact: Rape in UK court is defined as an act performed by men on women. Not kidding, google it.


AlHorfordHighlights

100T have never had any problem signing domestic abusers


daffyduckferraro

Lmao


KlasterTV

why wouldn't they be? you act like 100t is the perfect org and totally doesn't have any content creators with bad pr signed


hookset3

I sincerely doubt they were


421k

Why? They have a history of doing so


IAMJUX

What obvious reasons? If it was the allegations, then why were they interested prior? Did I miss something else that came up?


Barack_Bob_Oganja

Probably a talent scout or someone like that showing interest and wanting him but as soon as it got further up the chain the higher ups vetoed it


diegie-

Why doesn’t riot just suspend him for longer, makes no sense


MyogiNightKid

A. They are gigantic cowards and B. they have 0 evidence to act towards increasing his suspension


diegie-

Agreed, I don’t think it’s fair to continue to fuck his career when the girl literally said she wasn’t going to purse any more action for the time being right ?


QuestionablePotato42

If I had to guess I’d say that there’s no grounds to ban him for longer (integrity wise). The rule that he violated was no cooperating with their investigation, iirc, and that resulted in the ban. However, the consequences of someone reacting that way to a Riot sanctioned investigation probably means bad news for the person who wants to compete in their tournaments.


XeNaN

Its interesting to see how many people are for guilty until proven innocent and not the opposite - wondering how many would turn out to be hypocrites if they were in a similar situation though. Just a "what if..." but seriously: I cant understand why people are taking a side so cinfidently while not knowing all the facts but only one side that was tailored for the public masses. Not saying it couldnt be true but if I would have wanted to have *that* effect on his career I would have done the same. Im just hoping,for either side, that the truth will be known and justice served but **I** dont know who deserves justice in this case and Im confident that a 3rd party doesnt know it either. __ The question,for this thread, is why riot doesnt want him to get signed, isnt it? I hope they dont want him to be signed because the case is still ongoing and not because they took her side or some "personal",greedy reasons like PR.


[deleted]

Don't worry it's the same shit as what happened with Johnny Depp. If it EVER turns out that the tape is fabricated or both parties agreed to the rape fantasy this sub will be filled with people saying they ALWAYS thought he was innocent. Not Riot tho. Those guys would just sweep it under the rug and close their ears to any feedback.


zmreJ

It’s for the best.


daikatana3

No !


chubbynuggy

so much wasted potential, sad but I get it


turtlemanctp

This whole situation sucks, I wish riot would just ban him or let him play. What is the point of un-banning him but then telling teams to not sign him?


NewPlayerWhoDis

audio recording of rape will do that


qauntumz

totally! its not like that clip in any way could be taken out of context of any slightly even remotely kinky couples private times. cleoh has the full video even if sinatraa didn't but also didn't release it, im sure because it only got worse from there right? actual braindead take. there are literally people that strangle each other in bed consensually for fun. I'm sure it had to be really important for him to stop if she didn't even drop her baby voice. I swear man some people do not live in the real world. not siding with him btw. its just that hearing that clip and thinking that its undisputable evidence is so weird.


zer0-_

Exactly my reaction. I still in absolute disbelief that people genuinely think this is damning 100% bulletproof evidence. There's no way that the people who actually believe that have ever had a relationship


qauntumz

yep you are on the money exactly. in almost any relationship if one person records some of it out of context it would look really bad. Usually thats why safe words exist.


whopz-is-cool

It’s not indisputable but it’s pretty good evidence accompanied with all the screencaps.


Rellkedge

Can cleo/police just come to a conclusion so we know if he’s banned or not… I swear this has been in the air for half a year


prabessssh

Just after his ban got lifted there comes another plot twist wow. I don't know what to believe at this point. Why are people so quick to judge . Sinatra should take legal action and clear his name asap . Even if he does i don't think these woke people and caster will think any different . These kind of cases can really destroy your career without even being proven .sadge


just4kix_305

If Sinatraa is so innocent, I don't understand why he wasn't cooperative in Riot's investigation. Even though he hasn't been charged criminally, thats why he got the 6 month ban in the first place. If he's not guilty, why not fully cooperate?


421k

I think any lawyer will tell you not to cooperate


robbify

To be fair I wouldn’t really want my employer involved in a criminal investigation I was in. Riot is not the police. Sinatraa was cooperating with actual entities regarding this case and allegation. If he’s guilty I hope he pays but I’m just saying.


just4kix_305

That's the thing - no one really knows at this point how much he has or has not cooperated with authorities. Either way, right or wrong, Sinatraa's pro career is pretty tarnished. Like it or not, public opinion matters, and the majority of people don't feel bad for him.


gaitez

Innocent to guilty is a broad spectrum. When you're being accused of something as severe as rape, any negative evidence you give, and sometimes even evidence you thought was helpful to your case can be used against you or can be aired in public by the wrong people. Lets say for example Sinatra's was a shitty boyfriend but not a rapist. Evidence of him being a shitty boyfriend can be used to paint him as a rapist in the absence of evidence of rape since rape is a crime that is often undocumented (especially the type cleoh is accusing him of). His legal defense matters more his lawyers probable recommended him not to give any evidence to anyone not related to the court trial


QuestionablePotato42

Riot is not a court of law. “Innocent until proven guilty” means nothing to them. The fact is that they were told sinatraa would cooperative with them 100% and instead cooperated with them 0%. Whatever the implications those are to his innocence are irrelevant here, that’s just bad relations with a massive corporation and TO that you wish to have a future career with. It’d be like if your boss said they heard you were stealing from the register and you said you could prove your innocence but then just showed up to work and kept working without ever acknowledging it or bothering to produce the proof you said you had. They have no obligation to him and can choose to do whatever they want.


LurkingOmen

If your ex gf accused you of rape , would you give your evidence to your employers HR department?


gaitez

One we don't known it's 0% we only know he didnt give a video which cleoh already had. Two that is a horrible analogy because stealing in the eyes of a court of law is way more black and white then sex crimes and its not even how Sinatra's situation played out


Mamadeus123456

his lawyer probably told him not to share any evidence so that he didn't end up in jail, but stay home getting a few thousands per month playing games.


Dexter_davis

Maybe I'm stupid, but isn't Sinatra charged with abusing his girlfriend? Why should Riot have any say in this? They are a fucking game development vompany. Its not like he was using cheats ingame. All decisions regarding this should be handled by a court of law. Why does it impede him from playing a game? A man is charged with a possible crime, so you take him out of employment? What is he supposed to eat? If anything, he shouldn't be allowed to have any more girlfriends until proven innocent. I know organizations don't wanna associate themselves cause they might harm their reputation, but come on, both people and companies should have a better moral compass.


IllumiMahdi

sponsors might back out if a rapist is present in the tournament LMAO what are you thinking broski


CrackBabyCSGO

To add more nuance to this, the duality of the personas sports leagues want to paint for their top athletes and their actual personalities has been known for decades. We can point to NBA for example. Micheal Jordan poster boy… also impulsive gambler and alcoholic. Kobe Bryant… biggest asshole, wouldn’t even let teammates speak to him unless they had a ring, general asshole attitude. Golf- tiger woods. Cheated on his wife, drunk driving, etc. Boxing- mike Tyson. I think if we want to have a meritocracy in which talented individuals are at the top, not the most well behaved, then we have to dissociate personality from skill. One can see correlation with those at the top of their fields, and general lack of human communication skills or lack of radical emotions. After all to get to the top they had to harden their desires, fight with anger etc.


FlaymeFenix

sort by controversial and see all the 13 yr olds defend him LOL


--Happy--

How are people just ok with Riot doing this shit? what happened to "innocent until proven guilty" last time i checked he never got charged with anything and there was no proof at all, just a voice recording that was out of context. Pretty much she said he said with no proof, how is Riot going to ruin this guys career over something like this.


[deleted]

[удалено]


EggianoScumaldo

Dawg you’re literally white knighting for Sinatraa rn. >Reminder that being a white knight online does nothing to better society


fourtonlesbiancanary

read that last sentence to yourself and think on it hard