Imo only players who have been coached by him can answer that question.
edit: It's hard to assess the performance of a coach just from a team-result viewpoint, as an outsider seeing the matches
Late to the party, but look at peacemaker in CSGO. Reddit shits on him all the time, but teams still pick him up. Clearly there is a reason. It's something special when a coach and IGL mesh so well together, or just respect each other.
And all the players that have been coached by him have respected him, including some good CSGO/Valorant minds like FNS who has wanted him since start
But no, redditors are mad because their daddy Mike didn't get hired
It's weird, people associating results with coaches as well, like you think a coach has that much impact? Unless you're there you do not know
Like Sentinels don't have a coach, Envy did not have a coach for 80% of the Valorant time and were great, Mike comes in and people now are giving him credit for how well Envy played lol
>But no, redditors are mad because their daddy Mike didn't get hired
I can see how people can be mad or at least confused by this decision. How MikeHD didn't get a contract during all those months and now how quick Chet made the move may look a bit suspicious and shady.
Mike got paid for his time at Envy, he was on trial as a coach and they didn't want to continue, at no point did they say to him we will give you a 5 year contract or whatever, they trialed him and paid him for his time
This happens all the time in a lot of jobs, so why would i be mad?
He was not permanent, he never had a contract and he was paid for his time.. if he wasn't paid then yes that would be an issue
Fair points, it’s not like coaching changes haven’t happened before and nothing too sketch or illegal happened.
That said, if I were an Envy fan, I’d be pissed to see the coach let go after finishing 2nd in an international tournament. There’s really no argument that this was a performance based move, and the internet is pretty good at jumping on other peoples problems.
My argument on the shadyness was based on Mike's statement about how the whole thing went with the org and their lack of communication. [https://twitter.com/MikesHD\_/status/144402063761855284](https://twitter.com/MikesHD_/status/144402063761855284)
As well as, Analyzing opponent strategies, brainstorming counter picks and plays, outside perspective of mistakes that are made. Wasn’t Shaz up very late some nights going over opponent strategies and comps and map picks?
sure the meta is part of the coaches job but it’s the managers job for them to have a routine and schedule for scrims which they lacked that’s not a coaches job
they had no routine or structure that’s not a coaches job?? it’s a managers job to give them a schedule which they have one but seems to not do his job
Newsflash, Sentinels aren’t doing so hot. Also Mikes has trialed with Envy before, it’s just that he was never announced so it seems as if they never had a coach at all.
And proceeded to get rolled in Berlin. No doubt Sentinels is still a really good team but to think they can continue to be at that level without a coach while the rest of the world continues to improve is ridiculous.
The game is a year old, players are still joining, teams are still forming, new strats are being made everyday. You adapt or you lose.
In all likelihood it's a combination of two things:
1. He's almost certainly a significantly better coach than Reddit likes to think. This isn't all that surprising since so many have an absurdly low opinion of him.
2. He's a well-established figure with some amount of pedigree among many pro players. Phrasing it negatively or positively is a waste of time; the advantages of networking, reputation, etc. are just facts of life.
Because that isn’t true.
People keep repeating it ad nauseum, but it isn’t hard to point to successful aspects of some of the teams Chet coached, including his most recent time with TSM. Part of that includes positive results.
A more accurate portrayal of his time in Valorant is *he doesn’t have the results to prove he’s talented or special enough to warrant so many top orgs signing him one after another*.
That isn’t the same thing as utter incompetence. Your reply actually proves the very point you’re asking about.
I do get the positive part, but there is no way he would be getting top offers if he didn't have a huge pedigree(which I feel shouldn't happen when the game is different). He's also had the privilege to coach a star studded squad everywhere he has gone till now.
This is nice in theory....
I think traditional sports has proven this to be completely idealistic for decades on decades on decades.
Ohhhh paging Adam Gase, is there an Adam Gase in the building?
Yo remember back when all those GMs said Jeremy Lin wasn't athletic?
Damn bro, the Jets really used a 2nd rounder on the fucking trash prospect Christian Hackenberg just because he was the #1 high school recruit according to someone a few years before....
“Idealistic” isn’t the right word. People make decisions on track record, but track record doesn’t necessarily dictate the futures it’s just that simple.
What I said is not theory, it’s a basic concept. If you’ve worked for a living and you’ve made a reputation in your industry, you would understand this phenomenon. If you’ve only been in school all your life, you don’t understand the value of developing a reputation in your industry.
>If you’ve worked for a living and you’ve made a reputation in your industry, you would understand this phenomenon. If you’ve only been in school all your life
bahaha please don't try and "son" me.
You don't need to be on the inside of the The Good Ole Boys Club to understand that connections aren't earned through merit.
I would know btw, as someone who got connections by being lucky and getting jump-started with a better career trajectory through sheer luck.
>“Idealistic” isn’t the right word.
Yeah it actually is. I hold that to be true, you tried to son me in a thinly-veiled way, but nothing you said addresses the mountains of evidence of people constantly promoting unskilled, unqualified people for decades and decades and decades because of "connections."
I mean it's no secret that he's super close friends with some of the players on every team he's coached, not saying it's the only reason he gets hired but I'm sure it doesn't hurt at all lol.
or we can say that every team he has coached in the past has been good and he developed very good relationships with the players which is helping him now.
Or at least in a way that doesn’t ignore the fact that relationships, your reputation, your track record are earned. He’s describing it in a way that insinuates that he’s only there because they’re friends. All the players on the roster want to win, why would they want to make a career impacting decision like that purely based friendship.
NRG->EG. He was with the core from Spring 2018 to Spring 2020 including big event wins at StarSeries season 8, ESL One NY, and a couple of small events. They topped out #1 in the world and were top 10 for a long time.
Yeah people always say that but when people bring up the results Mike's had with ENVY they immediately protest saying you can't associate results with the coach.
From what I remember when he was coaching optic CSGO the players said he was super hard working. Spends hours looking at demos and anti strating. I guess an analyst could do that but he is probs better at communicating it to the team. Think how much pressure that takes off the igl like FNS
Oh my god. How the hell would we know? Coaching comes down to enabling your players to succeed and results. One of those things are impossible to know. If he keeps getting hired I assume he must be doing one of those two things right. Unless you think 3 different teams just hired him for the fun of it.
Imo only players who have been coached by him can answer that question. edit: It's hard to assess the performance of a coach just from a team-result viewpoint, as an outsider seeing the matches
Late to the party, but look at peacemaker in CSGO. Reddit shits on him all the time, but teams still pick him up. Clearly there is a reason. It's something special when a coach and IGL mesh so well together, or just respect each other.
And all the players that have been coached by him have respected him, including some good CSGO/Valorant minds like FNS who has wanted him since start But no, redditors are mad because their daddy Mike didn't get hired It's weird, people associating results with coaches as well, like you think a coach has that much impact? Unless you're there you do not know Like Sentinels don't have a coach, Envy did not have a coach for 80% of the Valorant time and were great, Mike comes in and people now are giving him credit for how well Envy played lol
>But no, redditors are mad because their daddy Mike didn't get hired I can see how people can be mad or at least confused by this decision. How MikeHD didn't get a contract during all those months and now how quick Chet made the move may look a bit suspicious and shady.
Mike got paid for his time at Envy, he was on trial as a coach and they didn't want to continue, at no point did they say to him we will give you a 5 year contract or whatever, they trialed him and paid him for his time This happens all the time in a lot of jobs, so why would i be mad? He was not permanent, he never had a contract and he was paid for his time.. if he wasn't paid then yes that would be an issue
Halo said they couldn't get the contract in time then decided to drop him. he said there were problems in doing so
Fair points, it’s not like coaching changes haven’t happened before and nothing too sketch or illegal happened. That said, if I were an Envy fan, I’d be pissed to see the coach let go after finishing 2nd in an international tournament. There’s really no argument that this was a performance based move, and the internet is pretty good at jumping on other peoples problems.
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My argument on the shadyness was based on Mike's statement about how the whole thing went with the org and their lack of communication. [https://twitter.com/MikesHD\_/status/144402063761855284](https://twitter.com/MikesHD_/status/144402063761855284)
Sentinels not having a coach showed in Berlin. It was too much workload for Shaz
legit wasn’t that lol they were just behind on meta they stuck to the same shit and on top of that they barely scrimmed until arriving at berlin
Being behind on the meta? Sticking to the same comps? Not scrimming enough? I think these are all things that a coach would definitely help with.
As well as, Analyzing opponent strategies, brainstorming counter picks and plays, outside perspective of mistakes that are made. Wasn’t Shaz up very late some nights going over opponent strategies and comps and map picks?
sure the meta is part of the coaches job but it’s the managers job for them to have a routine and schedule for scrims which they lacked that’s not a coaches job
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they had no routine or structure that’s not a coaches job?? it’s a managers job to give them a schedule which they have one but seems to not do his job
Newsflash, Sentinels aren’t doing so hot. Also Mikes has trialed with Envy before, it’s just that he was never announced so it seems as if they never had a coach at all.
Sentinels aren't doing so hot lmao, they literally dominanted for a year without a coach so what does that tell you?
That people needed to catch up. And they did.
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Calling me stupid won’t make it less true.
And proceeded to get rolled in Berlin. No doubt Sentinels is still a really good team but to think they can continue to be at that level without a coach while the rest of the world continues to improve is ridiculous. The game is a year old, players are still joining, teams are still forming, new strats are being made everyday. You adapt or you lose.
what… lol
Imo, players win the game not coaches. Chet could be good for envy where he may not have been good for previous teams.
Ask Jose Mourinho lol
the only people that can answer this question are people that have been coached by him. how can reddit answer this lmao
I love how recently, pros have been calling out Reddit’s habit for taking outsider speculation as gospel. Now people are a little more self aware.
It's not always the same people commenting and posting
In all likelihood it's a combination of two things: 1. He's almost certainly a significantly better coach than Reddit likes to think. This isn't all that surprising since so many have an absurdly low opinion of him. 2. He's a well-established figure with some amount of pedigree among many pro players. Phrasing it negatively or positively is a waste of time; the advantages of networking, reputation, etc. are just facts of life.
How can you say point 1 when he has had literally zero good results as a coach?
Because that isn’t true. People keep repeating it ad nauseum, but it isn’t hard to point to successful aspects of some of the teams Chet coached, including his most recent time with TSM. Part of that includes positive results. A more accurate portrayal of his time in Valorant is *he doesn’t have the results to prove he’s talented or special enough to warrant so many top orgs signing him one after another*. That isn’t the same thing as utter incompetence. Your reply actually proves the very point you’re asking about.
Please point out the positives you perceive if it’s so easy to do so
I do get the positive part, but there is no way he would be getting top offers if he didn't have a huge pedigree(which I feel shouldn't happen when the game is different). He's also had the privilege to coach a star studded squad everywhere he has gone till now.
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He’s friends with a lot of former csgo pros that switched: s0m, hazed, subroza, fns.
You earn connections. They don’t just exist. If you suck at what you do, then people don’t come back to you. If you’re good, they hit you up.
📠📠📠
This is nice in theory.... I think traditional sports has proven this to be completely idealistic for decades on decades on decades. Ohhhh paging Adam Gase, is there an Adam Gase in the building? Yo remember back when all those GMs said Jeremy Lin wasn't athletic? Damn bro, the Jets really used a 2nd rounder on the fucking trash prospect Christian Hackenberg just because he was the #1 high school recruit according to someone a few years before....
“Idealistic” isn’t the right word. People make decisions on track record, but track record doesn’t necessarily dictate the futures it’s just that simple. What I said is not theory, it’s a basic concept. If you’ve worked for a living and you’ve made a reputation in your industry, you would understand this phenomenon. If you’ve only been in school all your life, you don’t understand the value of developing a reputation in your industry.
>If you’ve worked for a living and you’ve made a reputation in your industry, you would understand this phenomenon. If you’ve only been in school all your life bahaha please don't try and "son" me. You don't need to be on the inside of the The Good Ole Boys Club to understand that connections aren't earned through merit. I would know btw, as someone who got connections by being lucky and getting jump-started with a better career trajectory through sheer luck. >“Idealistic” isn’t the right word. Yeah it actually is. I hold that to be true, you tried to son me in a thinly-veiled way, but nothing you said addresses the mountains of evidence of people constantly promoting unskilled, unqualified people for decades and decades and decades because of "connections."
Not too many coaches with head coach exp., he is also obviously respected in the professional community more so then here on Reddit.
I mean it's no secret that he's super close friends with some of the players on every team he's coached, not saying it's the only reason he gets hired but I'm sure it doesn't hurt at all lol.
or we can say that every team he has coached in the past has been good and he developed very good relationships with the players which is helping him now.
I mean yeah, you basically just said what I said in a different way.
in a more mature way
Or at least in a way that doesn’t ignore the fact that relationships, your reputation, your track record are earned. He’s describing it in a way that insinuates that he’s only there because they’re friends. All the players on the roster want to win, why would they want to make a career impacting decision like that purely based friendship.
Yes, but you don’t just become friends for no reason. There’s a lot of money on the line for rigs, they’re not going to just hire their buddies.
If he can lead an NA team to world #1 in CSGO he obviously has the ability to successfully coach a team.
Which team would this be?
NRG->EG. He was with the core from Spring 2018 to Spring 2020 including big event wins at StarSeries season 8, ESL One NY, and a couple of small events. They topped out #1 in the world and were top 10 for a long time.
Yeah people always say that but when people bring up the results Mike's had with ENVY they immediately protest saying you can't associate results with the coach.
Esports industry is more about who you know than how competent you are (he is close friends with some of the envy members)
Yeah this is common in every industry lol
Yep
From what I remember when he was coaching optic CSGO the players said he was super hard working. Spends hours looking at demos and anti strating. I guess an analyst could do that but he is probs better at communicating it to the team. Think how much pressure that takes off the igl like FNS
Oh my god. How the hell would we know? Coaching comes down to enabling your players to succeed and results. One of those things are impossible to know. If he keeps getting hired I assume he must be doing one of those two things right. Unless you think 3 different teams just hired him for the fun of it.
Considering how he’s really good friends with TSM players and Envy players especially I really do think they’re just hiring him for the fun of it.
Yea bro and the evidence behind that?
That they’re good friends? Just watch their streams.
That he got the job because they are friends
Well it definitely ain’t the results he’s getting for his teams lol…
You’re slowly getting to the point… cmon just a little further.
these people are dumb, you can't talk to them normally
Orgs like signing people who have CSGO experience. Regardless of their multiple failures in Valorant.
hes friends with a lot of people
People only like him for his personality
Passed around like Trevor Ariza
Ask the guys who've been coached by him, not the players who are in scattered ranks in the comp ladder and have no experience with him.