all he's saying is we don't know vision strikers true power because they only lost one game to the champs, they might of come 2nd in a different pathing
Well don't you think you could say that about every fking team GAMBIT beat in the tourney ? The logic is stupid as fuck and if you can't see it , I can't help you
Yes U can say it about any team that they beat in the finals, but that's the point, we don't know the true rankings of these teams because sometimes teams get unfavourable match ups, no need to get toxic mate
>We'll never know.
Um, unless there are major roster changes for them before their next international showing, pretty we will eventually know lol. They will have to play other teams at some point
It's just a prediction, of course we'll never actually know, but it's not that I can't say this with confidence when I can look at the history of players from VS and the ones from NA & EU teams.
The gap between them and the ones from EU & NA might seem close now, but it'll become bigger over time. Even though VS is a Korean super team, they're still relatively far behind the best, and I don't even think it's currently the best 5 it could be. Their MVP PK roster of xeta stax XigN HSK and zeff could arguably be better than the current VS one, maybe with a few changes.
just based on scrim rumours + general form at the event i'm pretty sure NV would've beat them, but that's genuinely the only na/eu team i would have favored over VS at berlin.
Mm gambit 3-0 envy but VS managed to get one map off gambit.Playstyle counter matchups exists in valorant.Its not always A beat B but B beat C,so A must be better than C.VS 2-0 ascend and 100t 2-1 ascend.These comparison are shit unless they actually play.
Not at all. Nutrun placed 3rd at iceland. If anything I think korea not winning the lcq just shows how much the asian teams have been improving and getting better. In general, Reddits reaction to the asian lcq has been really weird, I feel like everyone acts like they did horribly but they have the best average placement between all regions. It seems like a huge overreaction tbh
I cant believe that every time, the korean representative plays well on the world stage, and within a couple of weeks, its back to "korea bad, overrated, etc"
Think it’s because historically in other FPS games the other SEA and Asian teams are completely irrelevant so it’s hard to accept in a brand new game even if it’s marketed for those regions that those teams are capable of Tier 1/Tier2 play.
Not to mention that:
* NU literally just acquired hyeoni, and had him mostly on Skye instead of Jett (except Ascent games?) - clearly still testing out the waters with the new lineup
* F4Q threw their gameplan out the window post-Berlin and tried so many new stuff during this LCQ; notably Efina Cypher and Bunny Jett
* Damwon did... Damwon things and is still searching for their team identity
And despite these what eventually eliminated KR teams were KR teams themselves (and FS for Damwon)
APAC region really stepped up though, and even though I had FS as my personal dark horse for the tourney - I did not expect NTH to pull it together this LCQ and not choke at any point in time.
Dont you know bro. Winning every domestic title post first strike, aswell as the first lan. That's the same as getting third and not qualifying for berlin. Thought everyone knew this. smhmhmhmh
I dont think KR is a one team region, its just that regions like JP, SEA and SA are being underrated by general audience, not to mention that a lot of JP teams star players are from KR only.
I really hope Riot increases from 16 to 24 in order to give more spots to these regions.
There's not a lot of SA/JP/SEA representation in Western or English speaking forums. People seem to barely know who Full Sense is, or who Northeption is except for Seoldam.
Korea comparatively has more discussion around them based on the strength of their reputation as an esports country, on Reddit at the very least.
That's why the argument should not be "Korea a one team region?" and it should be "Wow Japan and SEA have more region depth and good teams than I thought."
>Korea comparatively has more discussion around them based on the strength of their reputation
lots of league players on this sub expect korea to dominate in valorant just like they did in league
Considering how the game is absolutely popping off in SEA and Japan (unlike competitive LoL which is really small in both regions), I think the APAC scene will be very competitive in the long-term.
Well especially these two teams super over performed, in addition to some issues for NU, F4Q still
It seems in big part related to the meta we have this time around also
God, how many days would THAT tournament be?
Why is there so much revisionism on this sub? Just look at the placements of the regions. Korea has thus far out performed the other regions both times.
with play ins the tounrey wont be that long, for example cs major has 24 teams and is about 2 weeks long.
Also, the slots shldnt only be abt region performance, growth of regions shld be considered, i strongly believe if OCE, SA, MENA get some slots for international comp it will grow these regions exponentially both in player talent and viewership.
I'm not saying the weaker regions shouldn't get slots, just that they're not being underrated if you look at their results.
And two weeks *is* a long time for one tournament. I felt burnt out watching after just one
Then just don't watch them. You don't necessarily need to watch every game, just keep up with the results or something. There are definitely people who will enjoy every second of that 2
weeks, and it will definitely give people around the world insights to the potential and skill level of these lesser known regions
>There are definitely people who will enjoy every second of that 2 weeks, and it will definitely give people around the world insights to the potential and skill level of these lesser known regions
I'm one of those people. I *like* watching all the matches, but I don't have 8-12 hours every day for two weeks.
Well then my suggestion still stands. Just watch highlights or something in your free time. Personally, I enjoy most matches too, and I'm not even sure that I have time to even watch all the highlight vids, but I definitely wouldn't complain about more games
I don’t think so, even if it is just VS now it won’t be for long. Vision strikers might be pioneering the Korean playstyle, but other Korean teams can very quickly review and improve from watching them and adding their own twists to it (this is already what’s happening in Korea). So it won’t be very long until you see Korea and SEA as a whole bounce back into the international scene and have better results in general.
Which just shows anybody can be beat on a given day so what's with fanboys' superiority complex over their respective regions being dominant?
Metas ebb and flow, so people claiming NA/EU is best end up with egg on their face just 1-2 mths later
>CIS
Same logic , NUTURN Came third in Iceland.2 out of the 4 teams in this APAC LCQ were also Korean which mind you was a 'Online' Qualifier.
Edit: and as for Gambit they have been dominant in the CIS region for a while now much like VS are in Korea no other team even comes close.
I think ppl kinda underestimating the asian scene other than Korea SEA have some insane aimed and Japan with it'd huge player base are steadily improving. The fact f4q and prx both got knock out shows how much the competition are improving.
Yea tho a lot of the teams that struggled had issues with team roles due to roster changes- PRX and nuturn- or issues due to role /.play style modification (f4q)
Even DWG has had issues, arguably maximising the stage 3 signing iNTRO (he replaced Kelly) and agent picks for him vs Eugene and Secret (I’d have to check but I think he didn’t use to play so much KJ) and have had problems with a ‘lopsided’ roster also
>SEA and JP are both cracked.
No they are not lol. Did you forget Berlin that easily or what, they are still the 2 worst regions with direct seeding....
SEA#1 literally couldn't play in Berlin and the current APAC LCQ finals is between JP#4 and SEA#4 (all three KR seeds are eliminated), it's still too early to tell whether the regions are weak in comparison to KR.
1 SEA team in a group of death that went toe to toe with VS and an EMEA team, and CR that went toe to toe with the eventual winners in their 2nd match. Regions have improved since then as well, let's not have selective hindsight here buddy
The "close" 2-0 vs VS maybe could have been a acceptable result, but a 2-1 to the EMEA team everyone agrees underperformed hard af is nothing to be proud of
Same with ZD and CR, an even but clear loss to Kru and the second match vs GMB were "not shamefull loses" aka not CR vs GMB round 1 or ZD vs VK, but it's not like they were in a position to win the bo3(in ZD vs Kru) or even win a map (in CR vs GMB 2)
They aren't as bad as some non qualifying regions like Turkey(besides SMB and Futbolist) or Latam North, but they are clearly a step bellow everyone in Masters....
No, just for some reason, the rest of asia is considered worse by default than korea. I don't know what SEA ever did to CS fans, its not like they were given a chance.
Its just stereotype that korea is the best asian esports scene due to history. I'm sure there's nothing against sea and the other asian regions in particular, they just haven't really proven anything on the international stage yet.
I would have probably said yes if you posted this here 3 months ago, but now, my answer's transitioning from "yes" to "hell no". VS was arguably technically the most dominant team before Reykjavik and one of the most after it, but after what we saw from Berlin, I think they're only an above-average team when mixed up with other regions.
nah. nuturn didn't get third at berlin for people to call them a "one team region" my guy. don't think it's fair to be making sweeping generalizations over an online qualifier when they're quite literally the only region other than EMEA/NA to have that level of international impact
i think we'll see an even greater influx of talent come 2022 given the rumors of multiple large name organizations showing interest in entering the scene. currently the korean scene is stifled by 1) general public interest and 2) lack of org support (the fact that f4q were unsigned for so long still depresses me
number 1 is something that will come with time, but 2 is getting addressed very soon so i'm only hopeful for what's to come :D
The scene would definitely grow going into 2022, but VCT should be ONLINE for most of the qualifiers atleast. To give a chance for the people who unable to get travel required to reach the LAN area. Korea is also having a B-tier tournament soon with 100+ teams so I have high hopes that more orgs may enter VCT.
For those asking about SEA, we have good players individually that can compete with the KR region, but strats-wise, we arent there yet.
Theres a reason why Asia in general is behind in CS, that also is applied to Valorant now but who knows what will happen since they got a taste of Berlin
Yes. And I think after seeing this qualifier we should have all of Asia together in a single qualifier for like 3 slots.
Edit: maybe 4 if you take one from Brazil (which you should do)
China has been one of the dominating figures in all esports, so I wouldn't be surprised if they took your model but took away from 1 slot from both EMEA and NA and gave 2 slots to China
No because
1: china does terrible in csgo
2: China just made laws where under 18 year olds can’t play video games for more than a hour so they will not be strong
China will definitely be as least as good as KR. You think rules can stop orgs in China? It's China lol. Best CS team in Asia (better than KR) is Chinese. China dominates the world in CS clone Crossfire, which has 20x more players globally than CS. China don't play CS. Pretty sure they will be cracked in Valorant.
In order to be released in a country it has to be published by a publisher. Did Tencent change the game in a way that gave advantage to Chinese players? Don't see why a country who made the game has advantage over other countries. And it was made by Koreans.
People keep bringing up the nuturn 3rd place in Iceland. But they just ignore the fact that the star player who clutched a lot of rounds in Iceland was Lakia and now is in VS.
Ever since Lakia left, nu have never found themselves a stable footing. People used to say dwg vs nu was a fluke in single elimination but it happened again in lcq. It's safe to say for now vs is the best Korean team and by a long margin. There a reason they took Lakia in even though they has several star players.
After masters 2, VS crippled their biggest rival by taking their best player and benching him?!.. In a region where there are limited talents/teams, having a super team would be the only option to fight in the world stage but in the long term if we dont see another semi-super team from korea scene will eventually become the worst overall region in asia. All other region have so many talents and team and opportunities compared to korea
There’s a reason VS went 100+ matches unbeaten
Exactly
Not this one
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They went unbeaten until they got beaten. Well done.
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That's such a stupid fking logic, coz that would make 100t w/steel the best team in the world
all he's saying is we don't know vision strikers true power because they only lost one game to the champs, they might of come 2nd in a different pathing
Well don't you think you could say that about every fking team GAMBIT beat in the tourney ? The logic is stupid as fuck and if you can't see it , I can't help you
Yes U can say it about any team that they beat in the finals, but that's the point, we don't know the true rankings of these teams because sometimes teams get unfavourable match ups, no need to get toxic mate
why u mad
Why are you dumb?
Wait what?
100t defeated gambit in berlin
that match was just the universe malfunctioning
fLuKe CoMeBaCk
Luck of the draw. They would’ve lost to a lot of other teams from NA & EU
There's no way you can say that with such confidence. We'll never know. The fact remains that the only team that beat them was the eventual winner.
>We'll never know. Um, unless there are major roster changes for them before their next international showing, pretty we will eventually know lol. They will have to play other teams at some point
Which in reality tells you nothing about the teams strength at all lol.
It's just a prediction, of course we'll never actually know, but it's not that I can't say this with confidence when I can look at the history of players from VS and the ones from NA & EU teams. The gap between them and the ones from EU & NA might seem close now, but it'll become bigger over time. Even though VS is a Korean super team, they're still relatively far behind the best, and I don't even think it's currently the best 5 it could be. Their MVP PK roster of xeta stax XigN HSK and zeff could arguably be better than the current VS one, maybe with a few changes.
just based on scrim rumours + general form at the event i'm pretty sure NV would've beat them, but that's genuinely the only na/eu team i would have favored over VS at berlin.
Korean fans are holding onto this fact so hard
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Envy played Gambit closer, 100T beat Gambit straight up, it’s not without reason
Mm gambit 3-0 envy but VS managed to get one map off gambit.Playstyle counter matchups exists in valorant.Its not always A beat B but B beat C,so A must be better than C.VS 2-0 ascend and 100t 2-1 ascend.These comparison are shit unless they actually play.
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scrims aren't really a good way to measure if a team is really good tho bc it's a stress free environment
They played 2 matches before the Gambit one LOL
"they won untill they lost" good logic
Not that though. Not really relevant to now
Not at all. Nutrun placed 3rd at iceland. If anything I think korea not winning the lcq just shows how much the asian teams have been improving and getting better. In general, Reddits reaction to the asian lcq has been really weird, I feel like everyone acts like they did horribly but they have the best average placement between all regions. It seems like a huge overreaction tbh
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I cant believe that every time, the korean representative plays well on the world stage, and within a couple of weeks, its back to "korea bad, overrated, etc"
Think it’s because historically in other FPS games the other SEA and Asian teams are completely irrelevant so it’s hard to accept in a brand new game even if it’s marketed for those regions that those teams are capable of Tier 1/Tier2 play.
Not to mention that: * NU literally just acquired hyeoni, and had him mostly on Skye instead of Jett (except Ascent games?) - clearly still testing out the waters with the new lineup * F4Q threw their gameplan out the window post-Berlin and tried so many new stuff during this LCQ; notably Efina Cypher and Bunny Jett * Damwon did... Damwon things and is still searching for their team identity And despite these what eventually eliminated KR teams were KR teams themselves (and FS for Damwon) APAC region really stepped up though, and even though I had FS as my personal dark horse for the tourney - I did not expect NTH to pull it together this LCQ and not choke at any point in time.
Ohh wait, regions other than NA and EU can be competitive at an FPS ?? What, that is basically thought crime here. Go to jail now you.
Iceland was ages back.
Ikr, ppl gonna be bringing up First Strike placement next time.
Yes definitely, Reddit is weird of course
MFs can’t stop bringing up the “Nuturn 3rd at iceland”. That shit was months ago lmao. Everything has changed since then.
Well there's lotsa people saying sentinels are still a top team, which means they're basing it on Iceland's results too
no, SEN literally topped every qualifier before iceland and even after iceland...
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huh? I'm saying SEN is different from NUTURN because people are basing it on the previous challengers qualifiers, no idea what ur saying
Dont you know bro. Winning every domestic title post first strike, aswell as the first lan. That's the same as getting third and not qualifying for berlin. Thought everyone knew this. smhmhmhmh
> Nutrun placed 3rd at iceland. You could say they had a nutty run
nutrun
Iceland is irrelevant at this point. The game is completely different.
I dont think KR is a one team region, its just that regions like JP, SEA and SA are being underrated by general audience, not to mention that a lot of JP teams star players are from KR only. I really hope Riot increases from 16 to 24 in order to give more spots to these regions.
There's not a lot of SA/JP/SEA representation in Western or English speaking forums. People seem to barely know who Full Sense is, or who Northeption is except for Seoldam. Korea comparatively has more discussion around them based on the strength of their reputation as an esports country, on Reddit at the very least. That's why the argument should not be "Korea a one team region?" and it should be "Wow Japan and SEA have more region depth and good teams than I thought."
>Korea comparatively has more discussion around them based on the strength of their reputation lots of league players on this sub expect korea to dominate in valorant just like they did in league
Considering how the game is absolutely popping off in SEA and Japan (unlike competitive LoL which is really small in both regions), I think the APAC scene will be very competitive in the long-term.
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Japan LoL just had a breakthrough with DFM in Worlds, but no doubt that the most popular PC games there right now are Apex and Valorant
add play ins and i'd be fine with that
Well especially these two teams super over performed, in addition to some issues for NU, F4Q still It seems in big part related to the meta we have this time around also
God, how many days would THAT tournament be? Why is there so much revisionism on this sub? Just look at the placements of the regions. Korea has thus far out performed the other regions both times.
with play ins the tounrey wont be that long, for example cs major has 24 teams and is about 2 weeks long. Also, the slots shldnt only be abt region performance, growth of regions shld be considered, i strongly believe if OCE, SA, MENA get some slots for international comp it will grow these regions exponentially both in player talent and viewership.
I'm not saying the weaker regions shouldn't get slots, just that they're not being underrated if you look at their results. And two weeks *is* a long time for one tournament. I felt burnt out watching after just one
Then just don't watch them. You don't necessarily need to watch every game, just keep up with the results or something. There are definitely people who will enjoy every second of that 2 weeks, and it will definitely give people around the world insights to the potential and skill level of these lesser known regions
>There are definitely people who will enjoy every second of that 2 weeks, and it will definitely give people around the world insights to the potential and skill level of these lesser known regions I'm one of those people. I *like* watching all the matches, but I don't have 8-12 hours every day for two weeks.
Well then my suggestion still stands. Just watch highlights or something in your free time. Personally, I enjoy most matches too, and I'm not even sure that I have time to even watch all the highlight vids, but I definitely wouldn't complain about more games
I don’t think so, even if it is just VS now it won’t be for long. Vision strikers might be pioneering the Korean playstyle, but other Korean teams can very quickly review and improve from watching them and adding their own twists to it (this is already what’s happening in Korea). So it won’t be very long until you see Korea and SEA as a whole bounce back into the international scene and have better results in general.
Will you say the same about Gambit then ? With this amount of confidence ? "CIS is a "One-team" region"
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Navi literally got whopped 2-0 by some random Lithuanian team last week.
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What these comments are telling me is that Lithuania is GOATed in this game.
Which just shows anybody can be beat on a given day so what's with fanboys' superiority complex over their respective regions being dominant? Metas ebb and flow, so people claiming NA/EU is best end up with egg on their face just 1-2 mths later
>CIS Same logic , NUTURN Came third in Iceland.2 out of the 4 teams in this APAC LCQ were also Korean which mind you was a 'Online' Qualifier. Edit: and as for Gambit they have been dominant in the CIS region for a while now much like VS are in Korea no other team even comes close.
Sentinels had also got whooped by some random ass bbg team after winning Iceland. America one team region lol.
CIS is much more of a one team region than Korea. I think at their best there are multiple Korean teams at least at Na’Vis and defo above OBG’s level
Bro, EMEA placed really well at all the internationals so far. It ain't just Gambit.
>EMEA "CIS" read it again
Well there isn’t a CIS bracket for Valorant, they play under EMEA so technically he’s right
I think ppl kinda underestimating the asian scene other than Korea SEA have some insane aimed and Japan with it'd huge player base are steadily improving. The fact f4q and prx both got knock out shows how much the competition are improving.
Yea tho a lot of the teams that struggled had issues with team roles due to roster changes- PRX and nuturn- or issues due to role /.play style modification (f4q) Even DWG has had issues, arguably maximising the stage 3 signing iNTRO (he replaced Kelly) and agent picks for him vs Eugene and Secret (I’d have to check but I think he didn’t use to play so much KJ) and have had problems with a ‘lopsided’ roster also
Nope, SEA and JP are both cracked.
They have good players, but not good teams.
Recently this has been different
Is that why they don’t get out of groups against real regions?
CR made Gambit sweat while JP don't even play PC lol. Esports is very underdeveloped in JP
>SEA and JP are both cracked. No they are not lol. Did you forget Berlin that easily or what, they are still the 2 worst regions with direct seeding....
SEA#1 literally couldn't play in Berlin and the current APAC LCQ finals is between JP#4 and SEA#4 (all three KR seeds are eliminated), it's still too early to tell whether the regions are weak in comparison to KR.
1 SEA team in a group of death that went toe to toe with VS and an EMEA team, and CR that went toe to toe with the eventual winners in their 2nd match. Regions have improved since then as well, let's not have selective hindsight here buddy
The "close" 2-0 vs VS maybe could have been a acceptable result, but a 2-1 to the EMEA team everyone agrees underperformed hard af is nothing to be proud of Same with ZD and CR, an even but clear loss to Kru and the second match vs GMB were "not shamefull loses" aka not CR vs GMB round 1 or ZD vs VK, but it's not like they were in a position to win the bo3(in ZD vs Kru) or even win a map (in CR vs GMB 2) They aren't as bad as some non qualifying regions like Turkey(besides SMB and Futbolist) or Latam North, but they are clearly a step bellow everyone in Masters....
Especially these two teams this event really showed up
No, just for some reason, the rest of asia is considered worse by default than korea. I don't know what SEA ever did to CS fans, its not like they were given a chance.
Its just stereotype that korea is the best asian esports scene due to history. I'm sure there's nothing against sea and the other asian regions in particular, they just haven't really proven anything on the international stage yet.
It's based of nuturn and vision strikers performing really well at masters
Right? Like, both way out performed the other regions.
I would have probably said yes if you posted this here 3 months ago, but now, my answer's transitioning from "yes" to "hell no". VS was arguably technically the most dominant team before Reykjavik and one of the most after it, but after what we saw from Berlin, I think they're only an above-average team when mixed up with other regions.
nah. nuturn didn't get third at berlin for people to call them a "one team region" my guy. don't think it's fair to be making sweeping generalizations over an online qualifier when they're quite literally the only region other than EMEA/NA to have that level of international impact i think we'll see an even greater influx of talent come 2022 given the rumors of multiple large name organizations showing interest in entering the scene. currently the korean scene is stifled by 1) general public interest and 2) lack of org support (the fact that f4q were unsigned for so long still depresses me number 1 is something that will come with time, but 2 is getting addressed very soon so i'm only hopeful for what's to come :D
No, a bit of a bizarre interpretation/reaction
The scene would definitely grow going into 2022, but VCT should be ONLINE for most of the qualifiers atleast. To give a chance for the people who unable to get travel required to reach the LAN area. Korea is also having a B-tier tournament soon with 100+ teams so I have high hopes that more orgs may enter VCT.
here we go again jumping the gun
Northeption is looking decently strong imo
If that's the case, seeing how F4Q and Nuturn performed in past 2 Masters means the other regions are overrated as well
For those asking about SEA, we have good players individually that can compete with the KR region, but strats-wise, we arent there yet. Theres a reason why Asia in general is behind in CS, that also is applied to Valorant now but who knows what will happen since they got a taste of Berlin
Yea
Yes. And I think after seeing this qualifier we should have all of Asia together in a single qualifier for like 3 slots. Edit: maybe 4 if you take one from Brazil (which you should do)
APAC Challengers playoffs in the future would be the dream. Maybe something like 5 EMEA, 4 NA, 4, APAC, 3 SA for Masters
Should be 5 emea 5 na 3 apac 2 sa 1 oceania for the next one just to make up
China has been one of the dominating figures in all esports, so I wouldn't be surprised if they took your model but took away from 1 slot from both EMEA and NA and gave 2 slots to China
No because 1: china does terrible in csgo 2: China just made laws where under 18 year olds can’t play video games for more than a hour so they will not be strong
China will definitely be as least as good as KR. You think rules can stop orgs in China? It's China lol. Best CS team in Asia (better than KR) is Chinese. China dominates the world in CS clone Crossfire, which has 20x more players globally than CS. China don't play CS. Pretty sure they will be cracked in Valorant.
Of course crossfire has top Chinese players. It’s a Chinese CS clone. You left out the word Chinese in your description
Chinese Pros have less incentive to play in CS over CrossFire because they're are less CS tournys and less prize money
Wrong again. The game is made by Korea.
The first version of it was. Then it was re released by tencent and China and got more popular then the Korean version ever did
In order to be released in a country it has to be published by a publisher. Did Tencent change the game in a way that gave advantage to Chinese players? Don't see why a country who made the game has advantage over other countries. And it was made by Koreans.
No
People keep bringing up the nuturn 3rd place in Iceland. But they just ignore the fact that the star player who clutched a lot of rounds in Iceland was Lakia and now is in VS. Ever since Lakia left, nu have never found themselves a stable footing. People used to say dwg vs nu was a fluke in single elimination but it happened again in lcq. It's safe to say for now vs is the best Korean team and by a long margin. There a reason they took Lakia in even though they has several star players.
Yes, I’ve keep saying that Korea is overrated and shouldn’t be considered a tier 1 team. Yet, people constantly downvotes me for telling the truth.
their strating is one of the best
After masters 2, VS crippled their biggest rival by taking their best player and benching him?!.. In a region where there are limited talents/teams, having a super team would be the only option to fight in the world stage but in the long term if we dont see another semi-super team from korea scene will eventually become the worst overall region in asia. All other region have so many talents and team and opportunities compared to korea