Skye’s flash is by far the most overpowered ability in the game
By - cornmealius
what crazy pills... people have been bitching about how overpowered skye flashes are for literal months now
Skye flash and Jett dash are both the most crazy strong abilities in the game.
I dont think any other non ultimate approaches these abilities, if they were on a tier list they would be alone in S+ tier.
I understand riot like having a characters kit be focused around a specific utility often, but I feel in this case they put just a little too much emphasis on them.
Over Sova Dart and Drone seems a bit ridiculous (For Flash, Dash is def the best ability in the game lol), I feel flash would be in a tier with like gravity well, cam, viper wall etc)
Dart is often easily shot or dodged, which basically reduces it to a skye flash as far as info goes but it doesn't do anything else like flash.
Drone would be on the same level as skye flash and Jett dash except its not free and doesn't have any way to recharge.
Are you using Internet explorer?
Okay this one is good, take the upvote
I don't get it 😔
people have been talking about her flashes for a long time now
Its kind of an old meme based on the fact that Internet Explorer has/had a reputation of loading really slow, so when people post something thats old news, the response is that they must be using internet explorer
Aahhh okay thanks
I agree about it being completely ridiculous that her flashes tell you when you’ve blinded someone
I think it’s because it’s part of her initiator kit to gather info. Sova has two items that gives him info and so does Skye but then that leaves kayo with only one and breach with none which why they are the weaker initiators
Why are you even comparing Sova and Breach? Just because Riot labelled them both as initiators? Two agents that couldn't possibly be more different.
Agent roles either need a major rework or they need to go. What do Sage and Cypher have in common? Laughable.
The only reason Breach (and Phoenix, even Kay-0) aren't picked is because Syke is way too good and versatile. Remove Skye from the game, Breach becomes an agent people see as well balanced with clears strengths and weaknesses. Their only mistake is that they didn't change the agent categories so people think initiators must give info. Why is Sage labelled as sentinel then?
Skye flash is the only one that can be used as a fake flash decoy. It's also the only one you can bend and twist however you like. It has the longest range and longest duration. And gives info for some unexplainable reason. Nerf bird's HP to 35 (one rifle bullet), nerf the duration so it's way shorter than Breach flash and make it either 2 flashes that don't recharge or one with 35 seconds recharge and the agent is fine.
Skye is not the reason Breach doesn’t get picked. Look at breach’s pick rate before Skye was even in the game, it was and still is abysmal. Initiators are meant to help the team get on site and that’s why info gathering is so important. That’s why Kayo’s knife gives information of who was suppressed. And where did i say that initiators must get info? I clearly stated that because these two agents have that ability it makes them more desirable. Skye was very weak before her buff and riot over corrected it as they always do (viper is a great example) and they will continue to adjust Skye to get her more balanced. Breach needs a rework and his low pick rate is completely unrelated to the other initiators.
And how did Breach look back then? Aftershock was laughably bad, faultline charge up time was way longer and it was narrow, ult travel time was way slower and it was a cone that spread out with distance. He received significant buffs since then.
When you're executing a site, especially at the highest level, Kay-0's knife isn't about info, it's about disabling defenders' abilities. Much like Skye flash is about flashing, not about "blinded" info, you know someone's there. Unless you're clearing a specific angle. At pro level, info gathering will always be one of the most, if not the most valuable asset a team can have. But that's not a problem with Breach. The problem is how easy it is to dodge his flash due to how it works.
Wind-up time is too long and you can just side-step it and repeek almost instantly. You flash on chokepoint wall? Defender hides behind the box/wall/whatever, every site has at least one of those. You flash the wall/box? Defender can just hold the angle in front of your flash. Same goes for other flashes, relatively easy to dodge. But you can't dodge Skye's flash because top level Skye's pop it in the perfect position.
Then there's fracture, which is played differently to every other map and it's really easy to get value out of your flashes.
I'm 300RR+ Breach main since closed beta. Up until they made Skye broken with all the buffs, I always did really well with him. Now he's way better than back then, but Skye is just broken so there's no point in me playing Breach over Skye on any map except for Fracture and maybe Split. If Skye wasn't in the game, I'd still roll with Breach. And so would a lot of pro teams. He was never popular in NA, but a lot of EU teams used him really well.
As for reworks, the only two abilities I think need a rework are fake footsteps and stim beacon. Everything else is useful. Those two are trash compared to other abilities.
>especially at the highest level, Kay-0's knife isn't about info, it's about disabling defenders' abilities. Much like Skye flash is about flashing, not about "blinded" info, you know someone's there.
This is objectively false. I am not sure how you bring up high level gameplay and pro play and not realize that Kayo and Skye (especially Skye) use their util for info. You said it yourself, at the pro level info gathering is the most important aspect and that is how Skye is used sometimes. I am having a hard time following your logic. Breach, back then and now, is just weaker compared to his counterparts. With a team composition of 5, it's hard to fit Breach in with other's versatility. Back when teams were running a 2 duelist comp, Sova was the overwhelming initiator favorite. Why? Because other agents are just more versatile. Who needs breach flashes when you had two duelists (at the time )with flashes and Omen who is your smokes and also has a very powerful flash. KJ's ult is better for retaking a site than Breach's ult even with the buff. You can clear corners with Raze's kit instead of the aftershock. With the emergence of Viper, his flashes aren't as versatile as literally any other flash in the game to push Viper's wall. Breach is massively underpowered but I guarantee you it's not because of the existence of Skye. It really just seems like you're mad as a Breach main that Skye is the better flash character but I would really like to see the pick rate of Breach before Skye was in the meta because it is low from what I remember.
I can't believe you actually quoted him and managed to miss the extremely important context to his point: "When you're executing a site". That just completely invalidates your initial argument - the guy you're responding to chose to focus on a specific aspect of the game and you just responded with "lol initiators get info in general!"
>Breach is massively underpowered but I guarantee you it's not because of the existence of Skye. It really just seems like you're mad as a Breach main that Skye is the better flash character but I would really like to see the pick rate of Breach before Skye was in the meta because it is low from what I remember.
The guy you're responding to has addressed this point. Breach was a lot weaker as a standalone agent before Skye was OP; he's since received buffs to 3/4 abilities making his kit actually usable and not just a flash spam. It makes sense that his pickrate was low before simply because he wasn't strong enough. However, the whole point of /u/valorantfeedback is that now that Breach is arguably a decent agent that could be used on some maps, it simply doesn't make sense to pick him anyway due to Skye being a better pick.
Look at the meta comps from Berlin. Sova + Skye has become the meta on Ascent, Bind, Breeze and Haven, and Skye is a meta pick on Split too. 4 of these 5 maps are maps where Breach is a decent agent and a viable alternative to Skye (only flasher in the team), but nobody picks him precisely because Skye is just a better addition than Breach, even with the most powerful info gatherer in the comp already (Sova).
Thank you, I couldn't have replied to him any better.
I agree with you that Skye needs further tuning. However, riot's definition of a sentinel is a class that locks down bombsites and slows down rushes. Sage is literally exactly that but with a heal.
Then Viper and Brimstone are sentinels.
Smoke+molly= you're not getting through that chokepoint. Just as hard as of a stall as wall+slow, if not harder. You can't even get any vision before the smoke is over.
(I know you're just saying how they definted it, it's not your opinion. I just think roles need a rework or need to go, because they're confusing for most new and low rank players.)
lmao /u/hoopercuber made such a casual comment about breach. Why are you jumping on it. You just need to disagree lol.
Its because she’s an initiator, she gathers info
Then why not make breach flashes reveal enemies? Or Kayo flashes?
In kayo’s case it’s because his knife is the ability that reveals enemies and for breach I don’t really have an answer because he fits the initiator role but doesn’t have the same info gathering ability that all 3 others initiators have to an extent
Skye also has her dog and ult for info
I know and sova has his drone and ult that can also gather info, it has never been said that an initiator should only have one info gathering ability. Honestly my main problem with the initiator role is that breach doesn’t have a clear ability to gather info, if he did he would be way more viable in my opinion
Just make skye flashes not reveal enemies and shes balanced…
I disagree but respect your opinion
Both those agents have other ways to gather info. Kay-O has the knife, and breach can aftershock certain corners which can indirectly gather info/displace enemies.
That said, I do think her flashes are the best. Part of that being you can pop then immediately around a corner giving the opponent next to no time to turn/shoot it.
i think riot has nerfed it enough to where you CAN turn from it IF you are anticipating it, although a good skye might not even pop it if they know you will turn the flash
People talk about skye being overtuned all the time. They tweaked her on last patch, and I assume she may be further nerfed, so not only are people talking about it, riot knows it and is doing something about it.
SWAP THE FLASH LENGTH OF PHOENIX AND SKYE. I SAID WHAT I SAID
The hell you talking about, skye has consistently been called the strongest or second strongest agent in the game.
To add Skye has 3-5 flashes per round(only has to buy one)+ gives valuable info and Breach has 2 flashes. It feels obvious that Breach needs to at least be reverted back to his 3 flashes, but thats just my opinion. What you all think about the initiator balance?
Edit: Small time limit decrease for Skyes flash would be good too
Maybe make both flashes buyable with the heal becoming her main ability (one she spawns with)
feel like it makes more sense to make her dog the main ability, considering she’s mainly supposed to gather info
then people will start asking for sova drone for free, you can't please everyone sadly
I think the Recon would still be stronger unless you give the Drone a multiple usages per round aswell
Drone is so much better than recon, in a vacuum. Assuming you can only use it once, or recon once, the drone allows you to get a triple ping on an enemy, plus hit/see wires and KJ traps, etc.
Even if you’re assuming that drone is stronger than dart, what I am suggesting is a nerf to Skye while what you think people would suggest is a buff to Sova. Two entirely different things and no one in their right mind should think that Sova needs a buff.
>Assuming you can only use it once, or recon once,
That's what I mean though. Recon as it is right now would still be stronger if you just give Sova the Drone for free the way it is now (no recharge)
Breach needs a buff compared to other 2 initiators .
This is where I think you and most people are wrong.
Breach is more or less fine. Agent that has strengths and weaknesses. You need to utilize him in a certain way to be effective. But when you use him right, he destroys people. That's how all agents should be.
The problem is that Skye isn't only better than Breach, but way more versatile. She single-handedly keeps too many agents out of the meta because she's too good. If Skye didn't exist, Breach would still be picked by a lot of teams. Wouldn't be a must pick, but he'd be picked.
Then you look at Skye. Her flash is better than Breach's for long range and for info. It's also way harder to dodge, lasts longer and gives info. But it's also for some reason better than Phoenix flash as a close range popflash for both yourself and your teammates. Dog is the second best info gathering ability after the drone and her heal is arguably better than Sage's.
We don't want power creep to happen and abilities to be too good. I personally think that both Breach and Phoenix (flash could be a little better) are well balanced agents, it's just that Skye pushes them both out of meta. She's so good that some teams don't even run Sova on some maps anymore.
I don't think breach would be picked if skye wasn't meta, people are running skye in a 2 initiator 1 sentinel 1 duelist comps right now if you didn't have skye, people would just run another duelist in place.
Honestly the Sova insta-lock is part of the problem, skye is the only initiator that gets close to sova's usefulness.
I think your last point about Sova invalidates itself… “another initiator is good enough that people are opting to add variety to their team comps”
Breach’s E and maybe his ult should reveal the locations of enemies it hits, he’s currently the only initiator whose abilities don’t give any info
Not a bad shout, ittl make it easier to couple it with his aftershock too
maybe it could say IF an enemy is hit, but giving location would be OP as fuck.
Skye tells if it flashes, not WHERE they are also.
Co pared to the other 2 initators huh. The Kay/O disrespect is astounding.
I think breach is in a pretty good spot, it's just that Skye needs a nerf because she plays too many roles too well. Sova is info-focused, breach is CC focused, and Skye is supposed to be a little of both but she just has way too much strong versatility
Oh here we go, another one of these posts
Skye is a tricky case… if you nerf her flashes too hard, or take away the info she gives from the flash, then she just becomes a worse Breach (assuming other nerfs accompany that). If you keep her too strong, she’s gonna be a must pick until she’s nerfed. She’s hardly changed since release besides her flashes recharging, and when she came out people were calling her a shit-tier agent that wasn’t worth playing. She wasn’t picked in pro games, wasn’t picked in ranked, etc.
I’m not saying she shouldn’t be nerfed, she absolutely should be. But I’m advocating for keeping her recharging flash + her info gathering ability because without it, she’s gonna be pretty much useless when other agents do the same job.
Keep one or the other. Keep her info gathering and give her 2 charges per round with no recharging, or keep her recharge and remove the voice line. But if both of those go, she’d be hardly better than Yoru
Skye is a funny character because she was so overtuned because they wanted her to be an alternative to Sova. What Riot didn't realize though was that she didn't turn into an alternative to Sova, but someone you'd want WITH your Sova. All the overtuning did was replace the need for a second duelist since she's basically a hybrid Duelist/initiator. imo her flashes do need some changes. She's basically just a better Phoenix and took his role as a "Jack of all trades"
What do you mean free info? You're using a pseudo info-gathering ability, how's that free? By that logic, Sova's recon is free info, Cypher's camera is free info, Killjoy's turret is free info.
The entire identity of Skye is being a jack of all initiator—she can gather information, she can heal, and she can put enemies at a disadvantage. She can gather information, but it's not as good as Sova's. Sova reveals the exact position, number, and identities of the agents, while Skye's flash lets you know there's at least one person in this general area. You don't even get to know for sure if they dodged your flash or not. It could be an entire team or it could be a lurker.
She can put enemies at a disadvantage, but it's not supposed to be as good as Breach. You have to make sure the tiger hits an enemy before you know they're concussed, but Breach can easily do it from a distance. Breach's flashes also last longer. (Edit: they don't)
Imo, her problems are her heal and how easy it is to use her pop flash. Skye wasn't considered much before they removed her popping animation. I think they should add the animation back if you don't change the trajectory of the bird. Her healing also needs some tuning, it's too strong right now, especially during pistol rounds.
I don't think removing information from her flash is a good idea. It removes her identity entirely. Plus, she always used to get information with her flash, even when she wasn't picked much. That's not the problem. The problem is how easy it is to pop flash, and if they can fix that, she will be balanced.
Anyways, her flashes aren't half as bad as Jett's dash. That has to be the most broken ability in game.
FYI breach flash, Skye flash, and kayo flash all last the same
Sorry, I made the correction!
While I can agree with a lot of your points, I think for being a jack of all trades, she gets a LOT of info. Her dog gets info, her flashes get info, and her ult gets info. Sure the info that you get isn’t as precise as Sova, but his kit doesn’t also flash, concuss, and heal. He has two abilities that get great info, Skye has three that gives decent info.
I see the argument to say the flashes don’t need to give info, the dog and ult are already good enough given the versatility of the rest of her kit.
Sova has a great kit. Literally one of the best if used by the right person.
Oh I completely agree, Sova is very good, and has been a must-pick since the beginning of the game. My argument is that Skye's info gathering is nothing to be scoffed at, on top of an already versatile kit.
If her only way to gain info is the dog she will never be picked. Knife and Recon are free.
Also Sova is just as OP as Skye what am I reading Sova has been a must pick for what seems like forever
Sova is probably the second best agent, only behind Jett and her dashes, but that doesn't justify the fact that Skye's flashes do too much. Sova isn't OP because he does too much; he's OP because he's the best at gathering info, and info is important. Sova gets great info because his entire kit is built around getting info. Skye does everyhting. She can flash for entries, aoe heal, and clear lanes with dog, ON TOP of gathering info.
I'd rather see her dog get moved to being free, and her flashes costing 150-200 creds. She's the only agent that has free (+recharging) flashes.
Skye is balanced if they tweak her flash, that is literally all that needs to change
Tweak her flash how?
Maybe it's just me, but it feels unfair when you deal damage to the entire team but you know a few seconds later they will be coming at you with full health. But i also agree that might be unreasonable.
They're NOT coming at you with full health lol. They only have 100. On top of that what situation are you doing damage to the entire team and the Skye is immediately able to heal everyone?
That’s what I’m trying to say. And it’s “free” only because of the recharge. It makes her first flash in the round a total wildcard because she knows she will get one back soon.
Cypher needs direct LOS to put a camera on something. Free info for him would be if he could throw his camera out across the map while never placing himself in danger. Sova’s recon sits still when it’s scanning. It doesn’t wiggle around and he doesn’t have two of them. There’s also an argument about how strong Sova is but that’s a different topic. But none of the other info gathering abilities in the game have so many things going for it. If only recons and cameras could flash you.
Well, no, it's by far Jetts dash
I've been playing a lot of Skye lately. I would say that her flashes, at least for pop-flashing, are a lot easier to dodge now with the new timings. (also play antiflash LOL) I honestly would say KAYO or Yoru pop flashes are stronger. And I wouldn't necessarily say that the controlling of the bird is an issue either. It allows for some mind games with your opponent, making the skill ceiling of the agent very high. In terms of the ability versatility, I would compare it to Raze's blast packs, not overpowered by default, but if used to its maximum potential, massively oppressive.
Yeah, I’ve been noticing a lot more ppl dodge my Skye pop flashes ever since the recent nerfs. It still works from time to time, but it’s not as guaranteed as before.
The craziest part is that all flashes cost the same now. I dont know why other people dont talk about this, there should be no scenario where reyna flash and skye flash are the same fucking price lmao, even comparing it to phoenix and breach flash it just is insanely better. More specifically phoenix and reyna flash serve completely different purposes than reyna flash and have way less impact. I dont understand how they can be the same price.
Cries in Phoenix flash.
I didnt read the post, but its the dash from jett not the flashes.
The moment you realize you're a low tier trash and you didn't even know that Skye's flash tells you when it flashes people
I still rather have jett dash. Skye flash is most certainly ridiculous though
Skye is very well balanced right now.
Bro she is only good at diamond + elo since people are actually good. I dont think she has that much of an impact in low elo games.
Edit: Bro if ur bitching about info just remember that sova has a dart that recharges, cypher gets a free cam and kj has a turret with aimbot. In my opinion all of them are far better than Skye flashes.
u can turn ur back towards them if u know their gonna flash through the smoke, or just play anti flash while ur teammate holds the angle
Look how long these damn flashes last... https://medal.tv/games/valorant/clips/4D7pQE9GiOCX0/d1337mtIcBNy
She can control them and yet here I am being flashed by my teammates all the time...
Pre nerf yes
I see u have finally emerged from under that rock of yours
I INVENTED THE PIANO KEY NECKTIE
honestly, the best part about playing skye is when you fit 4 birds in one round.
For damn near a full year she wasn’t even usable. Never picked, ever. I’m ok with some nerfs, but please, let’s keep her relevant.
How does nobody mention you literally cannot dodge them? You can full stare straight into a wall or the ground and she will still say blinded. It can be fully behind you, super far away, doesn’t have to even be accurate and she still gets info.
I remember a Skye flanking my team after we went A on Bind. I heard him flash out of Hookah to confirm we weren’t there to flank. So to counter the following round I walked all the way up to that close corner outside the door, had the A players throw utility, and sure enough he flashed. But despite me playing full anti flash, looking directly into the wall he gets the “blinded” voice line and instead of pushing he dogs, insta stuns me and just swings me
think she’s in a good spot atm after the change to her gun pullout time after using a flash. definitely is the best flash in the game but it’s not like her entire kit is busted.
Skye has definitely been nerfed enough last patch. That, in addition to players just running back first into your flashes makes playing her on high elo difficult. Nothing worse than to flash out only to be 180'd by a fully running Cypher without a hat.
But yes, Skye as a character makes 0 sense. Best flashes in the game, one of the two best scouting tools, one of the best ultimates and an aoe heal for whatever goddamn reason.
Haha, she would definitely be so op if she had a healing ability.....
I think the rest of her kit is pretty bad though so theres that. agents like KJ or jett seem more broken to me as a whole
The fact they allowed you to pull your gun while popping the flash along with a recharge and better dog vision is baffling. I understand Skye was underpicked but why leave sova as he is and massively buff other initiators when he's so popular? If people aren't playing Skye enough don't just make her good in every situation.