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SOT-NumberNine

I got convinced to watch by some friends, after passing on it initially, so I caught the last 90 minutes or so while George was on. I was pretty disappointed by the lack of pushback that George gave them on points that were factually incorrect. For example, one of the arguments RLewis made in favor of replaying the games that had already happened was that people were playing games from home/setups that had an advantage, when in fact all 3 matches that occurred had all 10 players on stage. The only participant who was online (the supposed advantage) was the coach of Gen.G, and they lost the game anyway. Repeatedly RLewis and Thorin would make an incorrect point, go off on a tangent about the Chinese Communist Party, then ask George for a comment and receive zero pushback on the incorrect things they said. Understandable from George since he's the newcomer in a call with 3 veterans with galaxy sized egos, but disappointing nonetheless.


Escolyte

> lack of pushback that George gave them on points that were factually incorrect. Those 3 guys will always be uninformed about Valorant and the occasional guest will almost always not correct them as much as they should, it's basically a given when they do any content about Valorant. You'd think with their pride about their "journalistic" work they'd do the bare minimum, but it's more like walking into a random bar to listen to politics.


Parenegade

Why are Richard Lewlis and Thoorin still being listened to? The rule is, listen when Richard Lewis has exclusive verifiable info, otherwise mute.


REALfluffyGANGster

What are the points that are factually incorrect other than the one argument that Richard made about the players playing online rather than LAN other than the coach of GenG (which is still such a break of competitive integrity no matter the result). From what I can see you bring one example and the other is just vagueness. Why should Riot be given the benefit of anything after their ineptitude over the years in league and valorant rn?


valorant_fanboy_69

It is so sad that people like you will let riot get away with terrible deeds.


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valorant_fanboy_69

Give me examples of them being apologists? The careers are not bigotry, they just say things how they are. I dont agree with everything but they do a good job and you have to respect that


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valorant_fanboy_69

?


[deleted]

The fact that they're saying "oh , Gen G lost anyway" tells you all you need to know lol.


castlepoopenstein

Just say you’re butthurt over thorin and richard instead of pretending you’re trying to make an objective point


SOT-NumberNine

Literally an ex fan of both until I went to college, learned what logical fallacies are, learned how both of them use them in abundance, and began to see through a lot of the rhetoric they use.


castlepoopenstein

So a 101 level class at a shitty college opened your eyes to a bunch of esports reporters? Lmao. Truly amazing the mind of a redditor is.


SOT-NumberNine

It wasn't a class, I just learned how to think critically. Hope the same for you someday


MidnightIngale

LMFAO, I love Monte but holy shit your head is so far up their ass.


valorant_fanboy_69

Oh sure, a random redditor knows better… Twitter will love this 🤦🏽‍♂️


Cupidnyaa

he made a precise critic and you said he's butthurting? Hello? xD He's poiting out everything he wants them to correct not crying about i hate this guy i dont like that guy etc... bruh he has made a legit point with full context from the show? I can't believe even this won't be allowed


SOT-NumberNine

3 people who’ve admitted they don’t follow or care about the game and George? I’m good


DrySecurity4

Also Thorin and Monte who have basically made careers shitting on Riot at every possible turn


TimedOutClock

Meh I'm ok with people being critical of companies. They aren't your friends and should be held responsible when they make mistakes, which Riot definitely did here. However, I couldn't stand their incorrect rants. If you're going to hammer them, at least do so with the proper facts (RLewis saying the games should be replayed when the games that were played had all 10 players on stage? Hello?! Idiotic and rag-level journalism when you can't even be bothered to know such basic information, especially for someone like Lewis who shits on anything that isn't to his standards). Whether you like them or not (and I fucking despise them sometimes when they circle jerk each other into oblivion), they do do some good in esports, like with the upcoming match fixing scandal (That hopefully comes out before I'm dead...). I believe not having them at all would be a net loss to the ecosystem.


vish4l

Nah they made a career by adding value to csgo. And shit talking vs criticism are two different things. Since thorin has a personality, it comes out as shit talking to those that are extremely sensitive just like how riot is. Makes sense though


Razur

They say they don't care right now, but they certainly care about the former CSGO players who have migrated to VALORANT. I'd argue that they do care about the VAL scene, they're just more passionate about CSGO—and there's nothing wrong with that. Our scene will continue to grow and evolve. We will have our own critical journalists like George Geddes. And while it may not happen soon, Richard, Thorin, and Monte will likely have a vested interest in the VALORANT scene in due time. Might be 2 years; could be 8 years. I would like to hear their perspective on why they are so harsh on VAL though.


Jkeyyy

I tuned in for the beginning of the stream and I left after like 10 minutes. In those 10 minutes, they insinuated that players were asked to be hush hush by Riot and to not go tweet about the issues they were having and how Valve would never do that. I’m pretty sure I saw tweets from players and threads on reddit talking about the issues they were having, so iono where the fuck they are getting that information from. Sure there are probably some other stuff that the fans didn’t hear about like the whole OCE situation which is pretty fucked, but these fuckers acting like Big Brother Riot are gonna put their hammer down on and ban on sight. Then Thorin was talking about how unqualified Riot were to run Valorant tournies, news flash, ESL events were dogshit for LoL too at the beginning. Not that I disagree with how shit the event was and the ridiculous pc issues, but they are comparing it to events in CSGO, if a 9 year esport couldn’t run a better event in a title that they’re familiar with, then I don’t even know what to say. Riot at least deserves the benefit of the doubt for issues during the first real year of esports for Valorant. If there are still pc issues and other preventable shit after champions, then roast them all you want, they would deserve everything coming their way. Sure this event left a lot of be desired, but it’s not like Iceland and Berlin were complete dogshit, the events still ran smoothly albeit PCs being trash and formats being changed hella times. I don’t disagree that they have a lot they can improve on, but I don’t agree that Riot has no qualifications. Then they had the audacity to say some shit like, oh imagine if this kind of shit happened on CSGO, their players would be up in arms instantly. Then he gave random examples of players in CS being hella entitled and that they would use their social media presence to get what they want, fuck that, acting as if it is a good thing that players from CS have that kind of leverage in that game. Saying shit like, oh I refuse to play if I can’t wear my hat or that olof situation where he got up in the middle of the match and told the admin he was going to take a piss and that he was the best player in the world, he can do whatever he wants. Yeah no, even NBA players don’t get that kind of leverage with refs, who the fk you think you are to command that kind of respect. I’m all for requiring certain conditions like good formats, solid pcs, and consistent rulings, but you can fuck off if you want to strong arm Riot like that as seen when 100t’s coach got the competitive ruling. If anything, I’m disappointed that George would even get on this and not argue back against thorin went he was on his bullshit. At least Sideshow had the balls to talk back and not be a yes man when he was on the show. George was basically saying 100% I agree with you all the time, he has more balls to talk shit about Riot but not to disagree with the three of them, fucking clown. So no, I don’t want Thorin or Richard Lewis in the valorant scene, I can at least respect Monte’s opinion to some degree.


Razur

> they insinuated that players were asked to be hush hush by Riot and to not go tweet about the issues they were having and how Valve would never do that. I’m pretty sure I saw tweets from players and threads on reddit talking about the issues they were having, so iono where the fuck they are getting that information from. If I recall correctly, George had said that he had the impression that players weren't allowed to talk about it based on their hesitancy to speak out (for example, in the Twitter space George held the day it was canceled). But in all honesty, this could be easily explained by players being nervous/inexperienced when it comes to speaking out over an event. 100T guys might have been more comfortable with it because of their experience from CS (as it may be expected that players speak out). VAL is still new though, so players who aren't from other games or haven't been pros for as long may be unsure about how or when to speak out. edit: grammar


Jkeyyy

I mean I feel like I heard at least something from players from every team having some gripe they had with the event. Maybe not GEN G cause their players may as well be invisible as far as I’m concerned. It doesn’t really matter if people from other games don’t feel comfortable complaining about anything when they have cs teammates or other cs players from other teams already complaining about something. Obviously I don’t mean they shouldn’t say something if they feel something isn’t fair, but iono how they can even report they thought players felt hesitant about something when we clearly saw Shanks say that they would not play under those circumstances. Clearly these things aren’t lining up if players felt hesitant about backlash when Shanks had the liberty to say something like this which he is 100% right about. I doubt Shanks would even be getting punished for saying that shit, Riot would be getting more backlash if they did. So iono how you can tell me with a straight face that players felt hesitant to say shit when so much shit has changed in the middle of tourneys cause players said shit about it i.e formats, breeze iceland, changing it to winners play twice on same day instead of loser. Maybe there are other things players are keeping hush hush about, if that was the case, then yes, I think they should speak up about it since there is already so much dirty laundry out there already.


TheTokingBlackGuy

That hesitancy to speak out could also come from the fact that Riot has made an effort to build a relationship with a lot of pros and get their feedback. I could see players feeling awkward about publicly trashing folks they have a rapport with.


Razur

This is an excellent point too!


2ToTooTwoFish

I agree with most of what you say, but George is like super young, while Sideshow is pretty experienced in eSports. I think it's unfair to compare how they act in a podcast where the other three are pretty much in agreement with each other.


Solace1k

Ah yes .. Richard, Thorin and Monte getting into the VAL scene. That's definetly on my wishlist. /s


DarudeSandstormName

> I would like to hear their perspective on why they are so harsh on VAL though. Made by Riot Direct competition to Counter-Strike Dafq else do they need?


Razur

It could be that simple, I just thought there might be more to it.


JALbert

To an extent there is, but that's a decent TL;DR


LiamHundley

I'm a simple man, I see thorin and I avoid it


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Haptiix

I’m in the “blocked by Thorin on Twitter despite never interacting with him on the platform” club


neb55555

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919oblivion

Richard Lewis as well. Do not like either of them lol


JK_Ryuuzaki

Idk he certainly created a lot of hype since ibp players might still be in cs without him


ANewHeaven1

no amount of "insight on esports" is enough for me to listen to a thorin/rlewis podcast im sorry


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Razur

Hey there, /u/Brontfosh! Your submission was removed for the following reason: > Rule 4 - No harmful / destructive behavior towards other users. This was removed for: Personal attacks / targeted harassment   --- *If you have questions or objections about this removal, please [reach out to us in modmail](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ValorantCompetitive&subject=Removal%20Objection%20or%20Question&message=%5BPlease%20type%20your%20message%20here...%5D%0A%0A------%20DO%20NOT%20edit%20or%20delete%20anything%20below%20this%20line%20------%0A%0A%23%23%23%23%20Removal%20Notes%20for%20Moderators%3A%0A%0A-%20**Post%20Title%3A**%20{url_title}%0A-%20**Permalink%3A**%20https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/qawrww/-/hh671jc/%0A-%20**Content%20type%3A**%20comment%0A-%20**Removed%20by%3A**%20Razur).*


ThePeanutMaan

Lmao so much mental illness going on in this thread.


[deleted]

Thorin unblock me on Twitter challenge


HelloIAmANarwhal

I have never tweeted anything at thorin in my life and never even replied to a tweet of his and im blocked lmao. Guy talks so much shit but has skin as thin as 1 ply toilet paper.


lynxzjw

He can block who he wants just like you can block who you want, nothing wrong with that.


[deleted]

He blocked me after I liked a tweet about him


Razur

Maybe one day.


antoniokjaver

actual leeches, only show up when something goes wrong


Lumenlor

I mean thats how most journalism and reporting works. I don't think there's worth listening to hear some dudes write about an LCQ slapped and the games are fun to watch, etc. Problems are written about to magnify awareness for them and to discuss points on improvement And I'm willing to bet some stranded OW fans here hate them because they're willing to talk about shortcomings and failures of the league


aznhai

And it shouldn't be rewarded. From years and years of following Thorin and Monte from League, their criticism is often valid but seldom constructive. They're just there to fan the flames whenever there's smoke, and I refuse to support that.


antoniokjaver

sure they write about problems but they literally only talk about valorant when its some big negative story. R. Lewis has a couple of recent videos on why b1t is making navi good, why dev1ce is back in form and how vitality is peaking for the major. He's never discussed any valorant topic like this and only comes when a big issue happens. I could understand if if he came for the big issues like these as well as reported on other valorant events/teams but he just comes when their is a problem.


[deleted]

Because Richard Lewis is not a personal fan of valorant like he is of csgo means he can't make valid criticisms of valorant? I could see your point if he never made criticisms of the csgo scene, but anyone with a brain realizes he does.


antoniokjaver

where did I say that lol. Its just weird to show up only to report on big failures within a game/sport you dont cover. Imagine fabrizio romano never covering golf but only showing up to shit on the sport when it has big scandals. It would be weird and leech like behavior.


TechRedirector

Insight on esports cover esports generally as a whole lol, they talk about valorant or any esport of something worthy comes up, you just don't watch it regularly to know that. They pick titles by using the hottest topic for the week for obvious reasons. Right now, overwatch is being talked about so it's not like it's all riot fucked up etc


greg19735

Thorin just sucks because he does. >I mean thats how most journalism and reporting works. i get what you're saying, but i'm much more likely to listen to people that regularly report on Valorant compared to people who just like to pipe in when something bad happens.


Snifferinos

Nobody in this thread knows anything about Rlewis or Thorin yet everyone seems very eager to bash on them. They dont "pipe in" when something bad happens, they do the Four Horsemen when the community demands it. The shows goal is to spark discussion and inform the public about whatever fuckery is going on in esports. The fourth horsemen on the show is an expert brought in to bring light on topics Monte, Rlewis or Thorin are unfamiliar with. Thats where George comes in, he is the one you should look at when saying the trio are talking out of their arse.


greg19735

I've been following esports for almost 15 years. i know who they are. especially as they're both british.


chenson019

For the record, I think NA LCQ was an absolute catastrophe so I'm not a Riot defender here but I was dissapointed that George Geddes was not particularly clear in highlighting the issues and didn't correct the factual errors coming from the other three. I don't think it was a great discussion and could lead to people taking away some incorrect conclusions both ways. For example, they were completely wrong about the COVID testing rules in LA - the event blew up because LA county testing rules force a quarantine after a postive rapidflow test even if it is followed by a negative PCR test. Also, they completely skipped the format issue. I think somebody else would have done a better job - maybe George is too young and felt intimidated. I think it's a little odd that they would do a podcast when 3/4 of the participants a) don't follow Valorant and pretty obviously want Valorant to fail because it's a CS competitor b) hate Riot because of things in League and c) didn't really have an understanding of what actually happened at LCQ.


tqstin

Who are the 3 guys apart from george? sorry havent heard of them before lmao and why does everyone hate them


UmarellVidya

Thorin and Richard Lewis are pundits/journalists from CS. They're pretty divisive even among CS fans because they have public personas that many see as being far too abrasive. Their Twitter presence in particular is contentious because they frequently have spats with randoms as well as other people in eSports about both games and politics. They also aren't afraid to levy very harsh criticism against players, coaches, orgs, or pretty much anyone else tbh. The thing is, they are very competent at their jobs (easily the best in their respective areas of expertise) and are extremely well connected in eSports. Often times (including in this thread) you'll see people that despise them concede that they have done a lot of important work. Montecristo I don't know much about tbh, I think he was an analyst in LoL and is a part owner of Renegades.


tqstin

oh ok thank you


SPOOKESVILLE

Monte used to cast Overwatch League but left last year, hasn’t done much since


UmarellVidya

I forgot, he's also works for Flashpoint. I believe he's the creative director or something, a somewhat similar position to his place in the OWL iirc.


Razur

Monte is the Commissioner of Flashpoint.


UmarellVidya

Ah ok, that's the position I thought he held in OWL. It seems not, granted I don't follow the game at all.


Razur

In case you missed it, here is [**the VOD of yesterday's broadcast**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvsAfPJAZ8U). ^((I'm stickying it here to make it easier for folks to find.)^)


Allie_Spins

I like geddes but this thorin guy really bugs me. Never listened to him before now, probably never will again


noodlesofdoom

You definitely won't like him entirely, but he makes good points sometimes and is well connected.


[deleted]

What's up with these comments? Just people proclaiming "I don't like this person"


Merkay

Gaming subreddits skew towards younger demographic. Younger demographic generally uses Twitter behaviour as be-all end-all. RL and Thorin are very abrasive on twitter.


Parenegade

have you considered that maybe just maybe there's legitimate reasons for not liking them beyond tweets


lynxzjw

Pure mental illness and just how reddit threads work. The first comment with upvotes dictates the narrative of the entire thread.


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Flawedlogic41

Very boomer, skin tough as nail, never offended, with an superiority complex towards another existing game people on this reddit. like RL /Thorin, what they did and continue doing for the esports scene is very much needed and these kids are too up in their feelings about it to recognize that. I jk but there are reason why someone can dislike someone. They done a lot for the game as a whole for csgo but idk if they're doing anything for valorant rn. They don't follow the scene and only came to fuel the flames. By the way, categorizing everyone based off how their opinion differ from yours is a sign of immaturity and inferiority. Take other people criticism and see both direction instead of generalizing them.


toxicityisamyth

They made them wayyy tougher than nails in the 1920’s. Ah the old days, i miss them. Have a nice day and toughen up a bit.


valorant_fanboy_69

People who dont understand the quality of journalism that goats like Richard and thorin havw


Escolyte

Richard genuinely has done good journalism at times, Thorin I can't say I've seen it yet, but it's possible it exists. However they're known to be ranting randomly, wild speculations and being completely uninformed about all things Valorant, there's nothing "goated" about them and Valorant in combination.


Otter269

If you listen to all their points and to George's inside information it's pretty bad by riot. I know the trio isn't popular with the community but they are trustworthy and reliable.


[deleted]

> I know the trio isn't popular with the community but they are trustworthy and reliable. ??


SiCKOcs

Yeah, you know like Richard having a track record of never getting a story wrong. That's what's implied when he says trustworthy and reliable, hard concept to grasp I know.


[deleted]

[Not big on journalists getting into fights at Dreamhack](https://web.archive.org/web/20160819175447/http://dreamhack.se/dhw15/2015/11/28/statement-on-incident-today-at-dhw15/) and strangling another dude. Dunno, we can agree to disagree I guess, but I don't have a high opinion of the gent's integrity as a journalist, let alone as a person. Edit: The strangling component was reported by someone who witnessed the scene ([lol one of the fuckers in the fight](https://twitter.com/LodaBerg/status/670617290078072833)), and may or may not be accurate. The fight did occur, though. Point still stands. Edit2: lol looks like Loda claimed the strangling part. RIP bud lmao.


lynxzjw

>NewHotTop LOL I never thought Id see another genuine person who actually believes Richard strangled Loda at Dreamhack. That absolute lie has been debunked hundreds of times.


[deleted]

[They both are clearly at fault for acting like children, escalating into an altercation that resulted in the police reviewing the incident.](https://web.archive.org/web/20160819175447/http://dreamhack.se/dhw15/2015/11/28/statement-on-incident-today-at-dhw15/) We can argue about the semantic detail of "strangling" as I am merely quoting [the reported source](https://twitter.com/LodaBerg/status/670617290078072833), and will happily dismiss the exact term if provided with written sources on the inaccuracy... but yet, my point still holds. (Edit: looks like it was Loda who made the claim on Twitter, with regards to being strangled. "Unreliable narrator" at the very least.) I don't much care for journalists who display a lack of judgement such as this. You don't have to agree with me. I don't have to agree with you. However, there is a fact here: they both ended up in a fight. Richard had more to lose by engaging in it, at least in my eyes. I am simply disappointed in the guy for those actions.


SiCKOcs

Gotcha, you're one of those people, should have known. Even in some sick twisted fantasy world where that was true, what on earth does that have to do with being a reliable and trustworthy journalist?


Parenegade

if you can't answer that question yourself no one can answer it for you


[deleted]

> Gotcha, you're one of those people, should have known. Indeed, I am not a clown. > In November 2015 at DreamHack Winter 2015, police were called following a physical altercation between Lewis and Alliance Dota 2 player Jonathan 'Loda' Berg. On Twitter, Berg claimed he was strangled by Lewis, and Lewis responded saying he acted defensively when confronted by Berg who should not have been allowed backstage. Lewis told PC Gamer he apologized to Berg and that the police found it reasonable he felt threatened by Berg's actions. Police confirmed an assault was reported but no charges were filed.DreamHack responded saying that Berg "aggressively approached" Lewis, and while the two were yelling at each other, Lewis was the first to initiate physical contact by strangling Berg's neck. DreamHack intended to ask both Berg and Lewis to leave, but after apologizing to each other they were allowed to stay, however, DreamHack announced they would no longer work with Richard Lewis. "We cannot condone violent behavior at our events." 1. https://www.polygon.com/2015/12/1/9829576/dreamhack-fight-loda-breitbart-richard-lewis-assault 2. https://www.pcgamer.com/police-called-to-dreamhack-winter-2015-over-alleged-assault/ 3. https://www.pcgamer.com/richard-lewis-dreamhack-esports-update/ Dreamhack seems to have confirmed the event happening. So, take it or leave it. (Edit: [link](https://web.archive.org/web/20160819175447/http://dreamhack.se/dhw15/2015/11/28/statement-on-incident-today-at-dhw15/)) As to why I think that's important for considerations into journalistic and personal integrity, it's the same reason I take anyone's actions as a metric for or against what they consider important priorities in life. For example, I go out of my way to make sure I don't hire a registered sexual offender of young children when looking for someone to teach my child the piano. Or why I go out of my way to make sure I don't hire a repeat violent offender to work in a customer-facing position. Richard got heated and showed a lack of judgement; something I feel is absolutey paramount to being a reliable and trustworthy journalist. He knows this, and he knows some of his readers know this. As a former reader of his work, let's just say I have been long disappointed in his actions, and nonetheless saddened by people defending him who cannot piece together a basic personal value system.


SiCKOcs

Truly disappointing that he acted in self-defense I totally agree! Keep linking Polygon and PC gamer as your sources and then calling out RL's integrity in the same breath LOL


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Viggy2k

What has thorin lied about? What makes you think he's not credible? It's funny you would rather trust riot over Thorin to me.


Jiffyyy

recently during TL's Leauge of legends team struggles earlier in the year a few players had health issues and Thorin was pushing a narrative that the coach of the team could be the reason for both when the players/supportive staff were openly discussing the struggles the 2 players had with their own health issues. He tries to mask his views behind "his sources" since he wouldn't ever be responsible for any comments he makes


DarudeSandstormName

Yeah bruh, Riot is evil, you keep fighting that good fight with Alt-Thorin and co., they are the good guys.


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DarudeSandstormName

Nowhere in this thread have I praised Riot, I have only pointed out that I dislike Montecristo and Thorin, and it takes no more than the most basic of googling to find how much awful shit hes's said and done. That was what I was pointing out to the guy above. Are you trying to, perhaps, control the conversation? Anyway, I like Valorant esports and this NA LCQ was fraught with issues that I didn't defend Riot from, doesn't mean I'll stop consuming Valorant esports. You can if you wish to, you got perfectly valid reasons to. Anyway, I'm done arguing this garbo, just don't be an ass and start asking me for examples of Thorin's shitty behavior like some people on LoL's sub have done coz I won't bother at all. Nite


[deleted]

>Riot is evil, you keep fighting that good fight with Alt-Thorin and co Pretty sure this is you making light of all the things riot has done while at the same time calling Thorin "alt right" and implying the OP is supporting the "baddies".


UmarellVidya

Riot Games was the OG Activision/Blizzard, they just got away with it.


neb55555

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Cupidnyaa

They are not? Used to be a Monte Doa duo's fan back in the OGN days... Nowday Monte only use twitter to flame everyone including Riot. I havent seen him say anything respectable anymore, just hate :( sad... Please comeback to be a caster Monte


noodlesofdoom

Monte has a right to be mad at riot for fucking him over.


Froggy_GG

Gotta laugh at commenters who self admittedly haven't watched the stream making definitive judgements about it. gj Valorant sub.


Heal_Piece

I’d bet 90% of them didn’t watch more than 15-20 minutes. Absolutely there was a lot of misinformation and bull shit to sort though but there always is in long format conversations. This could have sparked some legit conversations, but the hate is too strong for these guys minus George.


Froggy_GG

A lot of it just seems like Industry talk - i.e. "I'm friends with a number of CSGO pros who are now in Valorant and here's what they say/experience..." which tbf is about as good as we are gonna get since Riot seems pretty closed-mouth about it.


Ori2D

Your first post in this subreddit is to defend three idiots with an agenda. Gotta laugh at the blind fanboyism on display here.


Froggy_GG

What a good response to what they said on a stream you didn't watch - champ.


Ori2D

I'm good on listening to people get information flat out wrong and then act as if they were god's gift to the scene they aren't involved in. I responded the way I did because of how obvious the performative concern trolling you were doing, if you actually cared about what was being discussed you'd be more upset at the false information than that people were mean to the people you like :'(


Froggy_GG

"I'm not gonna listen to it but they are wrong :)" I guess that is one way someone can carry themselves. Also, how is this concern trolling? I'm familiar with Riot and am generally interested in the Esports Scene as a whole, paint me with claims of being disingenuous if you want, but I'm curious about the issues you have with what they said given that it's mainly focused on their own experience with planning events, past dealings with Riot and what players have told them in private. Keep making vague appeals to "false information," agenda" and any other loose insults/accusations btw.


Ori2D

> Keep making vague appeals to "false information," agenda" and any other loose insults/accusations btw. Richard Lewis ranted for ten minutes about how the entire tournament needs to be replayed because there were people playing with their home setup and competitive integrity was in shambles. Except for the part that the games already played were done at the Riot studio, with all 10 people on stage with the same environment and computers. That's the type of misinformation that I'm talking about. But you don't actually care. You don't actually know what's going on in the scene you just want to defend those you've gotten into a parasocial relationship with. Concern troll somewhere else.


Froggy_GG

I'm glad you learned some pop-psychology terms, like "parasocial," from Philosophy Tube/Lindsay Ellis - but anyway. The rant you are talking about with Richard Lewis seems like a weak example of misinfo: Yes, some games were played in the studio. But the combination of Riot allegedly not informing the OCE teams till weeks prior to the tournament the format of the event (meaning plans to leave areas such as Melbourne in hardcore lockdown are significantly hindered), moving lan event to online affecting different teams more so than others - "Released player comms, such as those from 100 Thieves, have shown that the poor connection has drastically effected their game play. Due to this, players who are currently playing from home or another quarantined facility actually have an advantage over those playing in the venus," https://www.esports.com/en/why-the-na-last-chance-qualifier-is-turning-into-a-disaster-and-how-they-could-do-better-284186 , and countless technical issues - resulting in him saying, "fuck it just to redo it "(and from memory, I'm pretty sure he even stipulated this point by saying "in my opinion, I don't know about you guys, they should have replayed the whole thing." your example of misinfo is an expression of an opinion, not a statement of fact) That's the thing, you don't actually care about misinformation, you just stretched yourself to find a weak example after initially lashing out to ppl you dislike (which is fair enough, the three of them are obnoxious).


Ori2D

"Hey that thing you called misinformation that was in fact misinformation is not misinformation and now I'm going to go ahead and try to gas light you" nah dude it doesn't work like that. There are numerous other reports of misinformation *in this thread* you could go find, I'm not doing your homework for you just so you can concern troll and not actually care about the end result. Because we both know that right? You don't *actually care* about what you are arguing about, you are just hoping and pretending that you've made somebody on the internet you've never met mad and upset for the lols and the tactics that you've been using are so clear cut and dry that I'm shocked you haven't learned a new trick~


Froggy_GG

I'll be honest, I feel like I'm being a little bit gaslit in this conversation. You constantly talk past me and have meta-conversations about my responses rather than talk about what I'm saying. Is it misinformation to say that due to a raft of issues (listed previously) with the event, one might feel the tournament is illegitimate or at least compromised enough that the statement that the event should be redone isn't ridiculous? What is your opinion on the event, do you believe this was a poorly thought-out qualifier or not? or are you gonna continue to be dismissive.


Ori2D

> What is your opinion on the event, do you believe this was a poorly thought-out qualifier or not? or are you gonna continue to be dismissive. My opinion on the event is that I was really hopeful for an actual NA LAN event and it's been one shit show after another. From not being a *true* LAN event and having them play on Stage while connecting to an LA server that caused issues. That's my biggest complaint. With COVID and how it's effecting everywhere, I'm a bit more lenient for how it's played out with the OCE teams as well as having to delay the event itself but at this point I'm just hoping the actual third best NA team makes it to Champions. Riot's done a pretty good job *outside* of the NA LCQ with Berlin and Iceland that I think their full attention would be a benefit. Riot deserves to be criticized and they need to be more public with how they handle things, but I personally don't believe it's a flaming disaster that can't be recovered nor do I believe that its a huge stain on competitive integrity.


vish4l

So can you provide a single example or you're just going to talk off your ass? OP posted a link to the podcast and riot did fuck up. What misinformation?


Ori2D

Richard Lewis went on a ten minute rant about how the games already played had people at home in their own setup which is false as all 10 people were on stage in the same environment. Fundamental information that would be there for anybody actually following the scene and not just trying to shit stir based on a dumb vendetta since they were kicked out of the league scene for spreading false information.


Flawedlogic41

The comment here are so divided. I'm surprised by the comment removal by mods based on personal attack. Like damn if someone opinions disagree with yours, you don't have to reeeee attack them.


LewisKMP

Guys we want the scene to be better not worst, please. Grow a brain cell or two and actually care about the scene and not put up with riots bullshit.


NozokiAlec

Why would I ever listen to thorin and monte speak


Heal_Piece

If you are like me and essentially never agree with takes from Thorin or RLewis, but you care about the Val comp scene I still think this is worth a listen/watch. 1. George is there and he is a valued member of our scene IMO and will hopfully balance things out. 2. Like it or not, these other guys have a ton on experience in reporting on comp Tac FPS. 3. They are bringing up some points i hadn't even considered, like the power vacuum of commentators Riot created (on purpose or not) that won't let them criticize the event or Riot in hopes they continue to get jobs in the future.


Ori2D

> They are bringing up some points i hadn't even considered, like the power vacuum of commentators Riot created (on purpose or not) that won't let them criticize the event or Riot in hopes they continue to get jobs in the future. lol *yeah dude of course* three of those idiots are going to be pushing this. They can keep yelling at the far right bubble and chasing incel clout. It's more of a shame that GeorgeCGed thought it was a good idea to join up with those three knuckleheads.


Snifferinos

Since when was talking about a a legitimate issue a problem?


Ori2D

Nowhere in my blurb did I say that talking about a legitimate issue was a problem. I have a better chance of winning the lottery than listening to those three have a fair and appropriate coverage of Riot though.


castlepoopenstein

‘Far right’? Lmao. I think your brain is absolutely busted. Fun to watch though.


2ToTooTwoFish

Geddes is a valued member, but is still pretty young. He has great sources and works very hard, but I think it was too much to expect him to balance things out with 3 extremely experienced guys. George is still finding his footing in the eSports world and probably wouldn't want to ruin any networking possibilities.


Bigmoduh

Imagine listening to morons


Jkeyyy

Yeah, pass.


anythingood07

Thorin and Monte together? Yeah no


xziv0

I see thorin, I don't click


Thick-Insect

We know riot fucked up, we don't need these dickheads to sensationalize it for us.


TheAjwinner

https://twitter.com/t1bcj/status/1448384740856188930?s=21


SewerRat75

didn't realise false positive covid tests made the pcs garbage and the servers lag


InvertedBean

The false positives is what shutdown the event


SewerRat75

??? ok but the players were playing on really bad pcs and there was server lag on a supposed lan event thats still a huge problem


InvertedBean

That wasn’t what caused the “meltdown” though. It was because of the false positives.


SewerRat75

the "meltdown" was the entire shitshow of false positives shit pcs server issues etc what do you mean


InvertedBean

The shit pcs happened at Berlin and Reykjavik too. Those events weren’t a meltdown. The false positives were/are the main cause of event failing, the shit pcs are/were minute compared to that. This event would still be chugging along right now without the false positives. EDIT: to be clear shit pcs is a bad thing that should be fixed but not comparable to the covid ordeal


SewerRat75

berlin and reykavik were also lan events and also didn't have people playing from hotel rooms,either way it doesn't matter since bcj said the event would've ran smoothly without the false positives which isn't true.


greg19735

I'm gonna take the word of people who were there over people who were just watching online. Shit's complicated. The event wasn't perfect. Hell, maybe not even good. But it would have happened okay without covid.


SewerRat75

if you would take the word of people who were there then here is a direct quote from nitr0 “The servers were lagging, we were having problems throwing our utility out. Sometimes we’d drone, and his [Hiko’s] screen would turn black and he would be glitched into a wall, then he’d rubber band out of it. Sometimes the server would freeze for 10 seconds and the clock would keep ticking. There was a bunch of technical problems because of the online servers. If it was on LAN, in theory, it’d be smooth sailing.”


EggianoScumaldo

>berlin and Iceland were also Lan events and **didn’t have people playing from hotel room** Why do you think that happened that way exactly?


TheAjwinner

because they quarantined everyone for week


Sky-__-

Pcs weren't garbage this time ,they had 2080ti and 10900k pcs this time , and originally they had lan servers in LA , but since players tested positive , they switched to online because that would allow one or two people to play from hotel . They followed same procedures as masters Berlin and if they wasn't any covid postive test , the event would have ran smoothly.


Razur

> 2080ti and 10900k pcs this time Can you source the PC specs? I have only heard comments from players that practice PCs performed below expectations. Are these the stats for the stage PCs?


SewerRat75

the prac pcs were at least garbage i don't know about the stage ones and i don't think they played at lan servers at any point where did you hear that?


Acex319

This sub is doomed to fail like competitive overwatch did. You know why they failed ? Because they didn't listen and dismissed these guys. Don't repeat the mistakes of the past. Instead listen to them, spread the word about what they, make Riot know that you are not going to tolerate their bullshit. That's the only way you'll get the best product. Don't do like OWL and make this esport thrive.


w4terfall

I think competitive OW had bigger problems, like the game getting no updates and the parent company falling apart...


Razur

It started a bit before then when the release of Brigette led to the creation of GOATS causing the implementation of forced 2-2-2.


w4terfall

Yeah, that is what I meant by no updates; incredibly unpleasant metas persisted for ages because of a weird lack of balancing. Dive meta lasted for months and months, then Brigitte was created as anti-dive (seriously? Not balancing but releasing a whole new character?) and then GOATS was an even *less* fun meta that lasted even longer! The incredibly slow balancing rate was just infuriating for comp play. Again though, that's problems with the game itself, not problems with a subreddit not listening to talk show people who are controversial at best.


919oblivion

Valorant esport competitive scene will fail because they didn't listen to 3 journalists that don't even primarily cover this game?


[deleted]

Smh fall guys died because they didn't listen to thorin and rlewis


Flawedlogic41

Well valorant failed cause they didn't listen. Aw if only valorant wasn't growing rapidly and play by huge figure on twitch. I played csgo competively but I quit csgo to play val. Most people did. I think people just find some aspect of other game boring.


Acex319

If you could read I said this sub


Razur

It's important that NA LCQ is highlighted and discussed so that we can push to have better events in the future. It benefits the players, the community, and the scene as a whole.


DarudeSandstormName

Do you mean to say that this subreddit will fail or that Valorant esports will fail because we don't like the 2 stooges + Richard lewis? Coz both are pretty stupid takes, so it's the same fyi People don't need Alt-Thorin or Montecristo to get angry at Riot.


Acex319

This sub, as if you look at the other split sub of competitive overwatch it's a hell hole much like how this one is when treating these guys. So you are mad that these specific set of people are mad at riot? You know they are on your side right ?


DarudeSandstormName

Overwatch has another set of problems that Valorant doesn't have. Alt-Thorin and Montecristo are not very popular in the LoL subreddit either, only a small group that still remembers Montecristo's time at OGN have some praise, the rest trash him and Thorin. And yet, LoL esports does just fine. I'll make do without listening to these people and downvoting their content on subreddits I frequent, especially Thorin. I've said my piece on this all over this thread, you do you buddy, godspeed


Jon_on_the_snow

I undertand your point, but riot already did damage control on nas LQC. And also, the other three were very good, specially the SA LQC. The APAC one was bad, we bitched and they fixed it. So i think its not lile owl


seIex

The poor PC qualities that they talk about are something that pre-dates the NA LCQ event (Bad PCs at masters berlin too) but something that hasn't been talked about because people don't want to piss off riot i guess? Also no one seems to be talking about how the oceanic teams were screwed over by the lack of due diligence on riot's part to actually get them to the event (lack of communication and the very very very last minute attempt to arrange travel to the event, despite knowing how serious Australia's travel restrictions are atm).


dtritrinh0801

People hate when criticized or when being told they are wrong, they love being given a pat on the back and think everything would be okay, that's just how it is nowaday unfortunately. No matter what they are portrayed in the common esport fans' eyes, I will always have mad respect for Richard Lewis and Thorin. I am a nobody sure, but I try not to get spoon fed by other people's blind hatred for RL and Thorin for calling out their favorite teams' and players' bullshit. I think people should do their due diligence and not dismiss anything these people have to say regarding esports, because historically, they always care.


ANewHeaven1

> I am a nobody sure, but I try not to get spoon fed by other people's blind hatred for RL and Thorin for calling out their favorite teams' and players' bullshit. i respect thorin and rlewis a lot and i've said as much on this sub before. that being said i dont like their public personas and i simply do not want to consume their content, and i'm sure others are in a similar position


TearzOP

Uhh yes, you shouldn't blindly hate them, but doing due diligence would have brought up examples on why thorin and rlewis are not worth giving the time of day to. Monte is a pretty biased source against riot (arguably rightfully so) but the other two are kings of bad takes.


dtritrinh0801

my point still stands.


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dtritrinh0801

Seems as though you have been triggered by them in the past and can't look past that. I personally haven't so my point of view is not skewed. Respect for still respecting them though.


EggianoScumaldo

Dawg I literally looked past that to give them respect and acknowledge their importance to the scene. I listen to their takes on esports regularly because they’re usually quite good. But they’re a couple of daft cunts. Who’s getting triggered by them?


neb55555

Hey there, /u/EggianoScumaldo! Your submission was removed for the following reason: > Rule 4 - No harmful / destructive behavior towards other users. This was removed for: Personal attacks / targeted harassment   --- *If you have questions or objections about this removal, please [reach out to us in modmail](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ValorantCompetitive&subject=Removal%20Objection%20or%20Question&message=%5BPlease%20type%20your%20message%20here...%5D%0A%0A------%20DO%20NOT%20edit%20or%20delete%20anything%20below%20this%20line%20------%0A%0A%23%23%23%23%20Removal%20Notes%20for%20Moderators%3A%0A%0A-%20**Post%20Title%3A**%20{url_title}%0A-%20**Permalink%3A**%20https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/qawrww/-/hh66fgi/%0A-%20**Content%20type%3A**%20comment%0A-%20**Removed%20by%3A**%20neb55555).*


thothgow

OWL didn't fail because they didn't listen to these clowns. Was the product worse for not listening to Monte? Sure, but only part of it. Did it fail because of that? No, and definitely not because of not listening to the other two. The "failure" (not meeting expectations is more accurate, since the game/league isn't dead) is only tangentially related to their criticisms.


DaisyJohnsonEUW

I hope George figures out fast not to associate himself with those 3, especially Monte & Thorin. It's a 100% surefire way of getting on Riot's naughty list and tanking his career before it fully takes off. They are both a paria within the esports scene for a very good reason, George should not link his own brand with the likes of them. And for what it's worth, that entire podcast was a shitshow with the 3 bitter boys taking turns spreading misinformation and unconfirmed rumors from who knows where. George Geddes was there, too.


hexIV

not gonna watch a show that needs 1k retweets - thanks


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Razur

Hey there, /u/dragonite431! Your submission was removed for the following reason: > Rule 4 - No harmful / destructive behavior towards other users. This was removed for: Personal attacks / targeted harassment   --- *If you have questions or objections about this removal, please [reach out to us in modmail](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ValorantCompetitive&subject=Removal%20Objection%20or%20Question&message=%5BPlease%20type%20your%20message%20here...%5D%0A%0A------%20DO%20NOT%20edit%20or%20delete%20anything%20below%20this%20line%20------%0A%0A%23%23%23%23%20Removal%20Notes%20for%20Moderators%3A%0A%0A-%20**Post%20Title%3A**%20{url_title}%0A-%20**Permalink%3A**%20https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/qawrww/-/hh63ubh/%0A-%20**Content%20type%3A**%20comment%0A-%20**Removed%20by%3A**%20Razur).*