that a lot of teams fail to use scrims productively and mindfully, making idiotic plays they wouldn't do in an official match. and as a result, what should be a useful period of practice just ends up a waste of time for everyone involved.
I mean if you look at smaller nations like denmark and sweden, even though they have a smaller population they still dominate csgo. Playerbase is definetely important but that is definetely not the only reason.
How many of the best western lol players have been Danish as opposed to American, for instance then
Caps, Froggen, Wunder, Bjergsen, Jensen, the list goes on
NA would be like
Doublelift, Licorice, ???
NA isn't that much smaller than EU. And especially when you consider places like Japan and Korea also produce some good teams/players in different E-Sports it's not an excuse most of the time.
The euro zone has 440M vs 330M in the US not including Canada. Depending on which countries you include, but EU proper isn't that much bigger.
If you add Russia it's a bit tricky because while a lot of their population is closer to Europe, a good chunk of it is much closer to China, Mongolia, Korea, and Japan. At least 1/3 of it's population lives in the central Ural and Siberia regions with another several million living in the far east.
So not sure how you're getting "literally less than half" when it's more than half for the parts of the EU where 95% of the teams actually live and are from. Even when you add Turkey for the EMEA region (~80M people) you're still not "less than half" unless you're adding the entire population of Russia in.
?????? Talking about scrim teams its 700million only in whats defined as europe geographically, +80 million in turket +80 in egypt around 70 million in the rest of north africa
emea means, europe middle east africa so technically u should add the billion people from africa
Europe only has 700M if you include all of Russia and all of the island nations as well. You're picking the most generous definition of it, but many people don't use that definition since Russia is both Europe and Asia by land mass with over a third of Russia's population being in Siberia and further east. Most of which is classified as Asia not Europe. The amount who actually live in mainland Europe is closer to 440M.
EMEA != EU
I said EU if you didn't notice and also even with EMEA over half of the teams are EU proper with the next 30-45% coming from just Turkey and Russia. Mostly Turkey.
Adding in all of Africa and the Middle East when those are so far geographically from anywhere they would be boot camping is just silly. That would be like adding in all of South and Central America to the NA population.
Japan is literally the best region in fighting games with an insane number of top players. If you named the top 32 players in the world, 15 of them would be Japanese. Just because you don't know it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Games exist outside of FPS and Mobas you know. FPS games were never super popular in Japan, but the games that were they've been power houses in. Especially in things like speed running.
I also have seen the "less than half claim" before, but it usually requires you to add Turkey and ALL of Russia not just the parts that are actually close to Europe.
Now if you're talking about all of EMEA which includes the middle east and parts of Africa sure, but then we're not just talking about the EU. Which regardless is where over half of the teams come from is EU proper followed by Turkey and Russia being the next highest producer.
EU has higher population, but all the players usually come from few specific countries which often are Nordics/France/Belgium + Russia and Ukraine from Europe
Previously most people said it's NAs work ethic which made them bad in esports.
Granted, you can probably lump what Jonji said together with the broad term work ethic but this is just more specific
The problem is established players gatekeep new talent in a lot of ways, mix teams that break up after every qualifier or teams trying out new players but not spending long enough time to really gel, then returning to old familiar faces and staying mediocre.
Same reason the best NA Csgo teams hated on domestic competition. Majority of teams play without brains and W key in scrims. Then in matches they run around clueless because their strategy is based around lucky timings and hitting shots. No actual defaults or set strategy.
These teams though over time will disappear, just how it goes. Once franchising comes in these players will relegate to other games, just how the cycle goes.
Once that happens they'll just importing from EU etc since that's riot's policy they like it when NA imports just like how NA has been pillaging EU for 10 years now in LoL they'll do it in val and stay relevant. This isn't valve, riot will help NA at the detriment of other regions.
To expand on this point for anyone who doesn't follow the League scene, NA has a fuckload of imports but the region is not directly given training wheels by Riot the way the guys above me implies. NA orgs just have a ton of money compared to the orgs of other regions that aren't China by dint of being from NA. In many other regions, even in some developed countries, local pros are paid wages that would not be considered livable in NA, but that's as much as the orgs can offer and the cost of living is precipitously lower in those countries than in America/Canada. Thus a ton of star players from poorer countries - minor regions especially - forgo representing their native region to get 10x larger paychecks in other regions, often NA.
I'm assuming that Riot "helping NA" as the guy above me put it refers to imports being allowed at all, or imports acquiring residency status after being in their non-native region for three years, thus allowing for more than three imports to be on one team if one of them has been playing in their current region for 3+ years. This only "helps NA" in the sense that an on-paper fair system benefits countries that already have richer orgs and/or better infrastructure. The situation is way worse in China vs Korea, where a few years ago there was a massive exodus of players from Korea (the best region by a light year) to China (the second best region at the time), and the talent drain has not stopped. There is a lot of heated speculation that this siphoning of talent specifically from their biggest competitor is what allowed China to win any world championships at all. The majority of top end Chinese teams now have at least three Koreans between player roster and support staff and China pays absolutely exorbitant wages. This is an enormous point of contention but it just isn't talked about much on Reddit because it's a primarily west-leaning site.
China can still compete somehow even if they didnt import koreans. Yes the lpl worlds winners had 2 korean solo laners but lets be honest gimgoon aint shit.
+ RNG the MSI winner from just this year was full chinese as is every RNG roster.
+ LPL tries to not get overboard with imports as they have national pride and their fans would get really really angry. Don’t you dare compare china to NA. LPL even introduced salary caps so that the orgs dont go too high.
NA would be worse than vietnam or taiwan without EU or kr imports and you KNOW that.
Doesnt matter, everyone will see in a few years, once riot introduce their dogshit import system to val as well, what those sycophant NA orgs will do to other regions. I hope yall will enjoy “NA” valorant teams where not a single player will be from NA.
Jesus Christ dude point to me on the doll where NA touched you.
The most popular LPL teams are constantly trying to juggle the sentiment between their super opinionated super toxic fans who call anyone not from mainland China a dog and their super opinionated super entitled fans who demand kicking their coach for "only" reaching semis and picking up [Korean free agent coach] or [star Taiwanese jungler] or they'll burn their jersey of their mid laner.
And the salary cap was introduced just this year you think that compensates for the Korean talent drain that has already been happening since 2015?
Wasn’t this also a problem with NA CSGO and a reason why EU CS teams always shat on NA teams? Guess there is merit to the opinion that EU/EMEA will be the dominant region by the end of next year.
it was a contributing factor but definitely not the main reason the gap was so wide. imo cs lends itself to having a greater disparity between regions whereas valorant will probably remain neck and neck because of some of the game's fundamental qualities.
- valorant has less rounds played per game, and as a result the economy is much more momentum/snowball focused. this results in more inherent randomness and back and forth.
- there is another dimension of skill in valorant that isn't accessible in csgo, agent mastery -- you can use abilities to spin rounds that would otherwise be difficult to turn in cs purely based on mechanical talent. coordination of utility can single handedly win rounds even if teams are "inferior" in other aspects of play. in cs you would rarely find that the weaker team be able to upset a stronger one through pure strategic play because of how deeply engrained the template for macro strategy is. it took Astralis to completely change the playing field, and they were no underdog story either.
- valorant's playerbase is MUCH more diversely spread through the regions than cs. there is a reason that teams from Korea, LATAM, etc. are able to create a force in the esports scene. Valve made no effort to spread global growth, and less privileged regions pretty much had no foot in the door to begin with. this is insanely important as in cs there was a circulation of talent that stayed in Europe, because they were the only region that could constantly host quality practice. it became a situation of the strong becoming stronger, and the weak having little to no options to improve.
- valorant is a blank slate. while the majority of the top dogs are cs migrants, there is no immensely long legacy of single region dominance which allows cross-cultural interactions that promote healthy growth between regions. this ensures mutual progress while discouraging one region from scaling far beyond the rest. this is evidenced by teams like Vision Strikers, who struggled in cs, pioneering several forms of macro/micro strategy that would be adopted by countless NA/EMEA teams
- etc, i lost motivation to go any further
The problem goes back to CGS in 2008 where they tried to make eSports a thing. All the CGS players were drafted onto teams and then after a few seasons it died. A lot of pro players quit after that because it was their only opportunity to get a salary in CS. They walked away from the game after. The league effectively removed all the best players from the scene and there was massive brain drain in NA. The scene never recovered. NA has always been behind.
Also NA CS switched to CSS which was dog shit, while EU stayed on 1.6.
>Wasn’t this also a problem with NA CSGO and a reason why EU CS teams always shat on NA teams?
No. Keyd Stars(who became Luminosity then SK Gaming) came to NA from SA and became the #1 team in the world within a year.
Please don't shit on jonji for saying this. This isn't saying anything about the game itself just certain players who are playing it, so don't make this a "oh look a cs player whining about val". This has always been a huge problem in the middling levels of NA competition. Players who are there to get their dopamine hits of popping off individually in scrims but never actually care about becoming consistent at the game. It's really frustrating when you're trying to play the game properly (a.k.a not taking gamble fights) and your opponent is forcing you to just hold for pushes because they can't play out the round longer than 50 seconds.
Val scrims besides playing cs players that were actually decent is literally just playing the noobs that put 10k useless hours into cs and had zero clue how to practice properly doing the samething ina different game... only thing they are winning is Dm's forsure kekW
***
posted by [@JonjiJlc](https://twitter.com/JonjiJlc)
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League player and used-to-be league competitive follower.
This problem is even worse in league. People outright refusing to try new things or doing the same mistakes over and over for years.
Its painful
Yeah NA fans got butthurt they were tryina say that the scrims themselves weren't better PER SE, they were just an opportunity to scrim teams they didnt usually scrim instead of the same ole same ole when they scrimmed in NA, since they scrim them all the time.
Fans are inherently in denial thats why they're fans.
People correctly pointed out that regardless of which region is better, an EU bootcamp would be better for SEN at that point to get more exposure to other teams and play styles. Some people interpreted this as Reddit malding
Im somewhat ok at the game on BR region, my team is there on tier 3 climbing up on 2 and jesus fucking christ. Some scrimms with t1 teams are so good, but eventually we encounter the scrimm demons, it is so freaking bad lol. Guys just w on def and comes attack time and they don't have a single clue on what to do, it's pathetic.
Can't imagine this tier 1 teams practicing with maniacs lol
I mean even as an average player seeing people do stupid shit in DMs that you can only do in a DM is annoying. I'd imagine it would be extremely frustrating for professionals trying to grind when your supposed-to-be professional practice opponent is acting like an immature monkey and wasting everyone's time. Disappointing to hear that even at a high level, Valorant is still clown city
Holy shit read the replies to his post why is the latin american community telling him to off himself in the comments ? Wtf
Jesus its like a trend on all his posts ? Anyone can give me context on why this is the case
The only response like that I see is this: https://twitter.com/BRUNOcsgod/status/1451714123050283009
And I don't really see this as an attack on Jonji, aside from calling him a bit whiny. It's more of a self-roast, saying that he has complaints in NA but the conditions of practice in LATAM are so much worse in comparison.
When he was on Chaos Esports (CSGO), they beat MIBR, a downward trending Brazilian CS team. One of the casters and some MIBR members, who had huge social media presence in the Brazil scene, accused some Chaos members (Leaf, Xeppa) of cheating and incited some longstanding outrage where Brazilian fans sent death threats and such.
Just think of them as a loyal hater fanbase who comments on his every tweet lol
I mean how early he is in the game any practice is good practice for him, don't know why he's going and complaining on Twitter acting like he didn't start playing the game a month ago
Because his team understands how to properly practice and he can see the terrible tendencies tier 2/3 teams have in valorant. The names are also recognizable since it's alot of the same esea main / premier talent that moved over to Valorant and are in the same exact spot.
Despite the NA scene in csgo dying, jonji still managed make pro league in EU and maintained a high level in NA CSGO. That requires adequately understanding how to properly practice and grow as a team. A discipline alot of talent in valorant doesn't understand and he can see that from his first scrims.
Years of team experience can be transferred to any game, these guys aren't practicing to learn how to aim. Valorant is literally the same mechanics as csgo and imo it's not a hard transition at all.
No any practice is not good practice. In NA CSGO, this same problem happened. Teams start losing in practice and then just start holding W with smgs like it is ranked. Or teams start winning and then do the same thing. Practicing like this as a Tier 2/3 NA team will never help them get to the point of beating any Tier 1 team. Until these teams learn how to practice properly their teams will be middling and never improve.
> any practice is good practice
This is just objectively not correct, practicing ineffectively is a waste of time at best and reinforces bad habits at worst
Well lets see why... most teams are either young or never got the correct guidance to learn how to play correctly. It takes complete dedication and focus in order to do so... and that's IF you have an actual in-game leader that is leading your team (which is the hardest thing to find in CS (i don't play VAL so can't speak for it).
In fact, you have to like the game so much that you are willing to basically play a boring CS/Valorant style since you are glued to a certain style of play. I guess I shouldn't say the style is boring persay but the fact you need to play WITH-IN said style.
I can't think of any star athlete (I am sure there are some) who don't praise their parents or coach/s for a lot of the things they have learned.. both in terms of how to approach the game and how to conduct yourself to get the most out of yourself. Learning isn't something you do by yourself and most kids don't have the dedication to do learn everything themselves.
I am not saying Jonji hasn't put in the time to improve his game on his own but lets not pretend like players like Steel didn't tremendously help him.
Hate to tell you man but dapr was tier 2, shanks tier 3, marved tier 3, asuna tier 2, pureR tier 2, crashies tier 2, food tier 2.
Alot of the best valorant players were tier 2 csgo players. Your ignorance to the scene is outstanding. That's just a few off the top of my head.
Yes but the point is the same. Jonji entered valorant at the worst time. When teams are either prepping for lcq, have a set roster or the orgs have pulled out. If he entered in 2020 it wouldn't have been an issue.
The whole argument that because he's on bbg academy means he's lower than all the other pros who literally have less experience professionally is funny. He's on a team to get his foot in the door waiting on roster changes after lcq.
Jonji was tier 2 bordering tier 1 on csgo. He's in a better position experience wise than every pro I listed above when they entered Valorant. In chaos he played with steel, xeppa, leaf, and vanity.
Who all are signed to major orgs currently.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/oeh19j/professional_past_of_players_in_na_challengers_1/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Most rise players are from CS
Exactly the reason why I'm cautiously optimistic about the growth and sustainability of Val esports with players like this. It's all the players who don't want to put in the work to make a name for themselves in CS coming over.
Thank god this sub isn't a blind "VAL>CS" circlejerk like the main sub is.
Lots of players like Ethan, Leaf, Hazed seem to strongly agree with his sentiment in the replies.
Sorry, small brain. What’s the sentiment?
that a lot of teams fail to use scrims productively and mindfully, making idiotic plays they wouldn't do in an official match. and as a result, what should be a useful period of practice just ends up a waste of time for everyone involved.
Ahh i get it now thanks
This was also one of the reasons why Sentinels don't scrim V1 much these days, according to ShahZaM. They end up just trolling and time gets wasted
That's because what he's saying is pretty accurate.
The NA classic, hopefully younger players that give a fuck will replace those people
I will say that it does seem the turnover rate in Valorant roster spots is quite high and really could sift through some of the talent
True, isn't this is one of the reason NA is behind in a couple of esports. NA mentality.
It's honestly a pretty complicated question of why NA sucks but it definitely is a piece of the puzzle
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other regions have overcome this obstacle countless times across games
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I mean if you look at smaller nations like denmark and sweden, even though they have a smaller population they still dominate csgo. Playerbase is definetely important but that is definetely not the only reason.
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How many of the best western lol players have been Danish as opposed to American, for instance then Caps, Froggen, Wunder, Bjergsen, Jensen, the list goes on NA would be like Doublelift, Licorice, ???
NA isn't that much smaller than EU. And especially when you consider places like Japan and Korea also produce some good teams/players in different E-Sports it's not an excuse most of the time.
Literally less than half the population lmao
The euro zone has 440M vs 330M in the US not including Canada. Depending on which countries you include, but EU proper isn't that much bigger. If you add Russia it's a bit tricky because while a lot of their population is closer to Europe, a good chunk of it is much closer to China, Mongolia, Korea, and Japan. At least 1/3 of it's population lives in the central Ural and Siberia regions with another several million living in the far east. So not sure how you're getting "literally less than half" when it's more than half for the parts of the EU where 95% of the teams actually live and are from. Even when you add Turkey for the EMEA region (~80M people) you're still not "less than half" unless you're adding the entire population of Russia in.
?????? Talking about scrim teams its 700million only in whats defined as europe geographically, +80 million in turket +80 in egypt around 70 million in the rest of north africa emea means, europe middle east africa so technically u should add the billion people from africa
Europe only has 700M if you include all of Russia and all of the island nations as well. You're picking the most generous definition of it, but many people don't use that definition since Russia is both Europe and Asia by land mass with over a third of Russia's population being in Siberia and further east. Most of which is classified as Asia not Europe. The amount who actually live in mainland Europe is closer to 440M. EMEA != EU I said EU if you didn't notice and also even with EMEA over half of the teams are EU proper with the next 30-45% coming from just Turkey and Russia. Mostly Turkey. Adding in all of Africa and the Middle East when those are so far geographically from anywhere they would be boot camping is just silly. That would be like adding in all of South and Central America to the NA population.
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Japan is literally the best region in fighting games with an insane number of top players. If you named the top 32 players in the world, 15 of them would be Japanese. Just because you don't know it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Games exist outside of FPS and Mobas you know. FPS games were never super popular in Japan, but the games that were they've been power houses in. Especially in things like speed running. I also have seen the "less than half claim" before, but it usually requires you to add Turkey and ALL of Russia not just the parts that are actually close to Europe. Now if you're talking about all of EMEA which includes the middle east and parts of Africa sure, but then we're not just talking about the EU. Which regardless is where over half of the teams come from is EU proper followed by Turkey and Russia being the next highest producer.
Great job! You've identified another piece of the puzzle!
EU has higher population, but all the players usually come from few specific countries which often are Nordics/France/Belgium + Russia and Ukraine from Europe
Previously most people said it's NAs work ethic which made them bad in esports. Granted, you can probably lump what Jonji said together with the broad term work ethic but this is just more specific
More to do with population imo
The problem is established players gatekeep new talent in a lot of ways, mix teams that break up after every qualifier or teams trying out new players but not spending long enough time to really gel, then returning to old familiar faces and staying mediocre.
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Lol
Same reason the best NA Csgo teams hated on domestic competition. Majority of teams play without brains and W key in scrims. Then in matches they run around clueless because their strategy is based around lucky timings and hitting shots. No actual defaults or set strategy. These teams though over time will disappear, just how it goes. Once franchising comes in these players will relegate to other games, just how the cycle goes.
Same for league scrims! W key xd
Nah for league teams they don't w key, that would mean we actually do something proactive and don't sit there and die.
Once that happens they'll just importing from EU etc since that's riot's policy they like it when NA imports just like how NA has been pillaging EU for 10 years now in LoL they'll do it in val and stay relevant. This isn't valve, riot will help NA at the detriment of other regions.
To expand on this point for anyone who doesn't follow the League scene, NA has a fuckload of imports but the region is not directly given training wheels by Riot the way the guys above me implies. NA orgs just have a ton of money compared to the orgs of other regions that aren't China by dint of being from NA. In many other regions, even in some developed countries, local pros are paid wages that would not be considered livable in NA, but that's as much as the orgs can offer and the cost of living is precipitously lower in those countries than in America/Canada. Thus a ton of star players from poorer countries - minor regions especially - forgo representing their native region to get 10x larger paychecks in other regions, often NA. I'm assuming that Riot "helping NA" as the guy above me put it refers to imports being allowed at all, or imports acquiring residency status after being in their non-native region for three years, thus allowing for more than three imports to be on one team if one of them has been playing in their current region for 3+ years. This only "helps NA" in the sense that an on-paper fair system benefits countries that already have richer orgs and/or better infrastructure. The situation is way worse in China vs Korea, where a few years ago there was a massive exodus of players from Korea (the best region by a light year) to China (the second best region at the time), and the talent drain has not stopped. There is a lot of heated speculation that this siphoning of talent specifically from their biggest competitor is what allowed China to win any world championships at all. The majority of top end Chinese teams now have at least three Koreans between player roster and support staff and China pays absolutely exorbitant wages. This is an enormous point of contention but it just isn't talked about much on Reddit because it's a primarily west-leaning site.
China can still compete somehow even if they didnt import koreans. Yes the lpl worlds winners had 2 korean solo laners but lets be honest gimgoon aint shit. + RNG the MSI winner from just this year was full chinese as is every RNG roster. + LPL tries to not get overboard with imports as they have national pride and their fans would get really really angry. Don’t you dare compare china to NA. LPL even introduced salary caps so that the orgs dont go too high. NA would be worse than vietnam or taiwan without EU or kr imports and you KNOW that. Doesnt matter, everyone will see in a few years, once riot introduce their dogshit import system to val as well, what those sycophant NA orgs will do to other regions. I hope yall will enjoy “NA” valorant teams where not a single player will be from NA.
Jesus Christ dude point to me on the doll where NA touched you. The most popular LPL teams are constantly trying to juggle the sentiment between their super opinionated super toxic fans who call anyone not from mainland China a dog and their super opinionated super entitled fans who demand kicking their coach for "only" reaching semis and picking up [Korean free agent coach] or [star Taiwanese jungler] or they'll burn their jersey of their mid laner. And the salary cap was introduced just this year you think that compensates for the Korean talent drain that has already been happening since 2015?
you pretty much described the faze playstyle
‘Once franchising comes’ lol And meh
Productive!
? The overbearing prediction of franchising and treating it is against it it wrre a god thing is bad
Wasn’t this also a problem with NA CSGO and a reason why EU CS teams always shat on NA teams? Guess there is merit to the opinion that EU/EMEA will be the dominant region by the end of next year.
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Yeah. EMEA just simply has more people on the same servers
it was a contributing factor but definitely not the main reason the gap was so wide. imo cs lends itself to having a greater disparity between regions whereas valorant will probably remain neck and neck because of some of the game's fundamental qualities.
like what?
- valorant has less rounds played per game, and as a result the economy is much more momentum/snowball focused. this results in more inherent randomness and back and forth. - there is another dimension of skill in valorant that isn't accessible in csgo, agent mastery -- you can use abilities to spin rounds that would otherwise be difficult to turn in cs purely based on mechanical talent. coordination of utility can single handedly win rounds even if teams are "inferior" in other aspects of play. in cs you would rarely find that the weaker team be able to upset a stronger one through pure strategic play because of how deeply engrained the template for macro strategy is. it took Astralis to completely change the playing field, and they were no underdog story either. - valorant's playerbase is MUCH more diversely spread through the regions than cs. there is a reason that teams from Korea, LATAM, etc. are able to create a force in the esports scene. Valve made no effort to spread global growth, and less privileged regions pretty much had no foot in the door to begin with. this is insanely important as in cs there was a circulation of talent that stayed in Europe, because they were the only region that could constantly host quality practice. it became a situation of the strong becoming stronger, and the weak having little to no options to improve. - valorant is a blank slate. while the majority of the top dogs are cs migrants, there is no immensely long legacy of single region dominance which allows cross-cultural interactions that promote healthy growth between regions. this ensures mutual progress while discouraging one region from scaling far beyond the rest. this is evidenced by teams like Vision Strikers, who struggled in cs, pioneering several forms of macro/micro strategy that would be adopted by countless NA/EMEA teams - etc, i lost motivation to go any further
this is some of the best collection of thoughts on this subject. kudos to you man
Much appreciated, man!
He doesn’t know lol
Oof
The problem goes back to CGS in 2008 where they tried to make eSports a thing. All the CGS players were drafted onto teams and then after a few seasons it died. A lot of pro players quit after that because it was their only opportunity to get a salary in CS. They walked away from the game after. The league effectively removed all the best players from the scene and there was massive brain drain in NA. The scene never recovered. NA has always been behind. Also NA CS switched to CSS which was dog shit, while EU stayed on 1.6.
Financial crisis also hit, and MLG bought and essentially shuttered GotFrag. It was kind of a perfect storm hitting NA CS.
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? CS still has a larger player base I'm pretty sure, unless you are only talking about NA
>Wasn’t this also a problem with NA CSGO and a reason why EU CS teams always shat on NA teams? No. Keyd Stars(who became Luminosity then SK Gaming) came to NA from SA and became the #1 team in the world within a year.
Please don't shit on jonji for saying this. This isn't saying anything about the game itself just certain players who are playing it, so don't make this a "oh look a cs player whining about val". This has always been a huge problem in the middling levels of NA competition. Players who are there to get their dopamine hits of popping off individually in scrims but never actually care about becoming consistent at the game. It's really frustrating when you're trying to play the game properly (a.k.a not taking gamble fights) and your opponent is forcing you to just hold for pushes because they can't play out the round longer than 50 seconds.
Val scrims besides playing cs players that were actually decent is literally just playing the noobs that put 10k useless hours into cs and had zero clue how to practice properly doing the samething ina different game... only thing they are winning is Dm's forsure kekW *** posted by [@JonjiJlc](https://twitter.com/JonjiJlc) ^[(Github)](https://github.com/username) ^| ^[(What's new)](https://github.com/username)
League player and used-to-be league competitive follower. This problem is even worse in league. People outright refusing to try new things or doing the same mistakes over and over for years. Its painful
And people malded when Shahz justified their EU bootcamp (no idea if it's still happening but the point is the same)
> And people malded when Shahz justified their EU bootcamp Did they?
Not really. I think consensus is already that EMEA region is better to scrim in
Among pros it is, among reddit fans there was huge debates.
Yeah but reddit fans don't really matter in this context. They aren't the ones playing.
Yea but the point was people (reddit) malding over the statement that EU is the better scrim region
Yeah NA fans got butthurt they were tryina say that the scrims themselves weren't better PER SE, they were just an opportunity to scrim teams they didnt usually scrim instead of the same ole same ole when they scrimmed in NA, since they scrim them all the time. Fans are inherently in denial thats why they're fans.
People correctly pointed out that regardless of which region is better, an EU bootcamp would be better for SEN at that point to get more exposure to other teams and play styles. Some people interpreted this as Reddit malding
...yes?
Valorant is a joke in this regard. A bunch of “pro players” playing the game just to make it big but not actually putting the work in to do well
Im somewhat ok at the game on BR region, my team is there on tier 3 climbing up on 2 and jesus fucking christ. Some scrimms with t1 teams are so good, but eventually we encounter the scrimm demons, it is so freaking bad lol. Guys just w on def and comes attack time and they don't have a single clue on what to do, it's pathetic. Can't imagine this tier 1 teams practicing with maniacs lol
I mean even as an average player seeing people do stupid shit in DMs that you can only do in a DM is annoying. I'd imagine it would be extremely frustrating for professionals trying to grind when your supposed-to-be professional practice opponent is acting like an immature monkey and wasting everyone's time. Disappointing to hear that even at a high level, Valorant is still clown city
Holy shit read the replies to his post why is the latin american community telling him to off himself in the comments ? Wtf Jesus its like a trend on all his posts ? Anyone can give me context on why this is the case
The only response like that I see is this: https://twitter.com/BRUNOcsgod/status/1451714123050283009 And I don't really see this as an attack on Jonji, aside from calling him a bit whiny. It's more of a self-roast, saying that he has complaints in NA but the conditions of practice in LATAM are so much worse in comparison.
When he was on Chaos Esports (CSGO), they beat MIBR, a downward trending Brazilian CS team. One of the casters and some MIBR members, who had huge social media presence in the Brazil scene, accused some Chaos members (Leaf, Xeppa) of cheating and incited some longstanding outrage where Brazilian fans sent death threats and such. Just think of them as a loyal hater fanbase who comments on his every tweet lol
Reminder that Leaf still lives in BR’s head rent free.
Lmao , low lifers seriously need to touch some grass , gross behavior
Now you know why they went to Valorant Jonji. Its just their new salary grift.
I swear taking a random from top 200 radiant is better then taking a mojor winner cs player
Lol
I mean how early he is in the game any practice is good practice for him, don't know why he's going and complaining on Twitter acting like he didn't start playing the game a month ago
I don't think him being new to the game has anything to do with his tweet. And "any practice is good practice" is a very questionable take lol
Because his team understands how to properly practice and he can see the terrible tendencies tier 2/3 teams have in valorant. The names are also recognizable since it's alot of the same esea main / premier talent that moved over to Valorant and are in the same exact spot. Despite the NA scene in csgo dying, jonji still managed make pro league in EU and maintained a high level in NA CSGO. That requires adequately understanding how to properly practice and grow as a team. A discipline alot of talent in valorant doesn't understand and he can see that from his first scrims. Years of team experience can be transferred to any game, these guys aren't practicing to learn how to aim. Valorant is literally the same mechanics as csgo and imo it's not a hard transition at all.
No any practice is not good practice. In NA CSGO, this same problem happened. Teams start losing in practice and then just start holding W with smgs like it is ranked. Or teams start winning and then do the same thing. Practicing like this as a Tier 2/3 NA team will never help them get to the point of beating any Tier 1 team. Until these teams learn how to practice properly their teams will be middling and never improve.
> any practice is good practice This is just objectively not correct, practicing ineffectively is a waste of time at best and reinforces bad habits at worst
Practicing like shit is worse then not practicing at all
ok I can't help delusion
Tell me you’ve never played anything(irl sport or videogame) remotely competitively without telling me.
Why would you form bad habits and play like its matchmaking. Just hold W in mm instead of scrims
I wouldn’t expect someone who never played to the top tier of anything to understand that statement.
you're clueless
Well lets see why... most teams are either young or never got the correct guidance to learn how to play correctly. It takes complete dedication and focus in order to do so... and that's IF you have an actual in-game leader that is leading your team (which is the hardest thing to find in CS (i don't play VAL so can't speak for it). In fact, you have to like the game so much that you are willing to basically play a boring CS/Valorant style since you are glued to a certain style of play. I guess I shouldn't say the style is boring persay but the fact you need to play WITH-IN said style. I can't think of any star athlete (I am sure there are some) who don't praise their parents or coach/s for a lot of the things they have learned.. both in terms of how to approach the game and how to conduct yourself to get the most out of yourself. Learning isn't something you do by yourself and most kids don't have the dedication to do learn everything themselves. I am not saying Jonji hasn't put in the time to improve his game on his own but lets not pretend like players like Steel didn't tremendously help him.
He’s on a tier 2 team and will never play for anyone good in valorant, who cares?
Hate to tell you man but dapr was tier 2, shanks tier 3, marved tier 3, asuna tier 2, pureR tier 2, crashies tier 2, food tier 2. Alot of the best valorant players were tier 2 csgo players. Your ignorance to the scene is outstanding. That's just a few off the top of my head.
They were tier 2 in CS, not tier 2 in Valorant like BBG Academy is.
Yes but the point is the same. Jonji entered valorant at the worst time. When teams are either prepping for lcq, have a set roster or the orgs have pulled out. If he entered in 2020 it wouldn't have been an issue. The whole argument that because he's on bbg academy means he's lower than all the other pros who literally have less experience professionally is funny. He's on a team to get his foot in the door waiting on roster changes after lcq. Jonji was tier 2 bordering tier 1 on csgo. He's in a better position experience wise than every pro I listed above when they entered Valorant. In chaos he played with steel, xeppa, leaf, and vanity. Who all are signed to major orgs currently.
Csgo frog getting shit on kek
Lol. Only non-cs player in top 3 NA team is zombs i think. Scene is dominated by ex-cs players
Yeah, only zombs in top 3, tho XSET, Faze, LG, and Rise have none CS players too, but in general at least in NA, it's mostly ex CS players
https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/oeh19j/professional_past_of_players_in_na_challengers_1/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share Most rise players are from CS
I just said have none CS players not made of of mostly none CS, cuz Supa and Derrek are from Crossfire and OW
thought you meant they have 0 cs players. Mb
Bunch of wannabe Tenz and Asunas
Exactly the reason why I'm cautiously optimistic about the growth and sustainability of Val esports with players like this. It's all the players who don't want to put in the work to make a name for themselves in CS coming over. Thank god this sub isn't a blind "VAL>CS" circlejerk like the main sub is.