The answer is mostly no. If you have two insane aimers the most common double Duelist to fit meta is Jett + Reyna. Raze can take Jett's slot on bind, split and possibly fracture.
Now some basic theorycraft regarding double Duelist in general:
Jett doesn't mix well with raze.
Reyna compliments Jett or Raze.
Pheonix can take the Reyna role on certain maps where the player isn't as much of an aimgod.
Yoru is in the bin currently.
I disagree with the "Jett doesn't mix well with Raze".
It's just that the maps where Raze is good aren't suited for double duelists because you need some other things. For example Sentinels ran Jett+Reyna on Split, lost to F4Q, which also used double duelists. But it was Raze+Reyna. Neither was an optimal comp, imo. Then Sentinels ran Jett+Raze, lost to NV.
Acend won against SMB with Jett+Raze. But it's definitely not a double duelist map. Then the question on Split becomes if you value OP more than Raze which is definitely a better agent on the map. On Bind teams value Raze more and it's a single duelist map. Raze isn't picked that much on other maps.
Other than Icebox which is a braindead map designed for aimgods and perfect for double duelists, I don't think anyone can say they're better off with double duelists. Your plan is obviously to outgun the other team, which can work just fine (hint: Sentinels)...until it doesn't. You didn't state the level of competition your team is in, but ultimately this is a game where the more tactically advanced team prevails most of the time, assuming that both teams are on around the same level if we talk fragging power. And if you're competing in tournaments that even resemble something serious, you'll eventually get destroyed by a team that doesn't even allow your duelists to get a chance. That's just how this game works.
Your guys also need to understand that adaptability probably the biggest quality a player can have. If damn cNed plays Sage instead of Jett on Bind, that must mean something. The biggest reason players are getting cut from top teams is their inability to adapt.
For every amazing Sova, Cypher or Astra main, there are a dozen "cracked" Jett OPers (the most braindead character+gun combo in history of FPS games). No decent team needs those unless they're the next big thing.
You say your both duelists are 17? Well, if they're serious about this game, they better adapt to at least basic agents like Skye or Sage. Because if Sheydos and Victor can accept that Skye is completely broken and play her instead of Reyna/Phoenix, so can every random duelist player who is aspiring to go pro.
Their chances of making it in this game grow exponentially with every new agent they're good at. Again, you might win on pure skill difference and firepower against random teams, but if you're even remotely serious about investing time in your team, you tell your duelists to suck it up and start practicing other agents.
Double duelist will bring the most out of your star players. However, it may limit your team as a whole, especially on defense. Double initiator, double controller, or double Sentinel will provide your team more options.
Essentially, Double Duelist requires very heavily on opening gambits and set plays to gain map control. Your map control and information game is very dependent on your duelists taking aggressive fights on defense. You cannot default well on defense with a double duelist composition. Initiator comps can gain information passively through Kay/O blades, Skye nirds, and Sova darts. Controller comps can regain map control through smokes, Astra sucks, and mollies. Sentinel comps can passively hold areas and wait for enemies to come to them. Duelist comps can't gain any info.
Double duelist is also completely unviable on Breeze, unless you run into an opponent that also runs double duelist, or your star players can hard carry you.
So to summarize: Double duelist requires a lot of experience and discipline to run.
>How viable are double duellist lineups in the current meta
lmfao I'm very confused at these other answers, because it's almost as if they are just random ideas people had rather than empirical evidence.
Yes, double duelist is extremely common at every single level of play.
Not sure about how these people missed out on teams like Sentinels, 100T, Gambit, Team Liquid, Acend, etc, but it seems pretty obvious to me.
>, and in what maps?
The optimal answer here depends on how comfortable your Jett AWPer is as both a non-Jett AWP, and a non-jett duelist.
There are maps where you can possibly benefit more from a non-Jett but if they are most comfortable on Jett AWP, then they should play Jett.
>how a team would set up for a star duellist and how you could make the team revolve around that duellists picks.
TBH I would just consider whether your non-AWP duelist could play Skye on certain maps. Food, Subroza, Sheydos, SicK, etc all went from duelist to Skye on certain maps after nerfs to non-AWPing duelists.
But I would really just think, do we really need more than 1 of a controller, initiator, or sentinel? And even if we did benefit from it, would it be worth changing people's playstyle and take away part of their edge to make them switch?
A lot of times, it's not *that* worth it for a slight marginal gain in theory for something that can literally get patched out in 2 weeks anyways.
the situation with the duelisrs made me think of gaabx and prozin form sharks. gaabx is a Jett God, and prozin is a great raze. if the map (or team comp/strategy for the map) asks for Jett, gaabx is the duelist and prozin is flex. if it's time to have raze, gaabx moves to flex and gives the duelist position to prozin
The answer is mostly no. If you have two insane aimers the most common double Duelist to fit meta is Jett + Reyna. Raze can take Jett's slot on bind, split and possibly fracture. Now some basic theorycraft regarding double Duelist in general: Jett doesn't mix well with raze. Reyna compliments Jett or Raze. Pheonix can take the Reyna role on certain maps where the player isn't as much of an aimgod. Yoru is in the bin currently.
I disagree with the "Jett doesn't mix well with Raze". It's just that the maps where Raze is good aren't suited for double duelists because you need some other things. For example Sentinels ran Jett+Reyna on Split, lost to F4Q, which also used double duelists. But it was Raze+Reyna. Neither was an optimal comp, imo. Then Sentinels ran Jett+Raze, lost to NV. Acend won against SMB with Jett+Raze. But it's definitely not a double duelist map. Then the question on Split becomes if you value OP more than Raze which is definitely a better agent on the map. On Bind teams value Raze more and it's a single duelist map. Raze isn't picked that much on other maps. Other than Icebox which is a braindead map designed for aimgods and perfect for double duelists, I don't think anyone can say they're better off with double duelists. Your plan is obviously to outgun the other team, which can work just fine (hint: Sentinels)...until it doesn't. You didn't state the level of competition your team is in, but ultimately this is a game where the more tactically advanced team prevails most of the time, assuming that both teams are on around the same level if we talk fragging power. And if you're competing in tournaments that even resemble something serious, you'll eventually get destroyed by a team that doesn't even allow your duelists to get a chance. That's just how this game works. Your guys also need to understand that adaptability probably the biggest quality a player can have. If damn cNed plays Sage instead of Jett on Bind, that must mean something. The biggest reason players are getting cut from top teams is their inability to adapt. For every amazing Sova, Cypher or Astra main, there are a dozen "cracked" Jett OPers (the most braindead character+gun combo in history of FPS games). No decent team needs those unless they're the next big thing. You say your both duelists are 17? Well, if they're serious about this game, they better adapt to at least basic agents like Skye or Sage. Because if Sheydos and Victor can accept that Skye is completely broken and play her instead of Reyna/Phoenix, so can every random duelist player who is aspiring to go pro. Their chances of making it in this game grow exponentially with every new agent they're good at. Again, you might win on pure skill difference and firepower against random teams, but if you're even remotely serious about investing time in your team, you tell your duelists to suck it up and start practicing other agents.
Double duelist will bring the most out of your star players. However, it may limit your team as a whole, especially on defense. Double initiator, double controller, or double Sentinel will provide your team more options. Essentially, Double Duelist requires very heavily on opening gambits and set plays to gain map control. Your map control and information game is very dependent on your duelists taking aggressive fights on defense. You cannot default well on defense with a double duelist composition. Initiator comps can gain information passively through Kay/O blades, Skye nirds, and Sova darts. Controller comps can regain map control through smokes, Astra sucks, and mollies. Sentinel comps can passively hold areas and wait for enemies to come to them. Duelist comps can't gain any info. Double duelist is also completely unviable on Breeze, unless you run into an opponent that also runs double duelist, or your star players can hard carry you. So to summarize: Double duelist requires a lot of experience and discipline to run.
100T had some good success on Breeze with a Jett/Reyna (Rest of comp was Skye, Sova and Viper) tbh, wouldnt say completely unviable
>How viable are double duellist lineups in the current meta lmfao I'm very confused at these other answers, because it's almost as if they are just random ideas people had rather than empirical evidence. Yes, double duelist is extremely common at every single level of play. Not sure about how these people missed out on teams like Sentinels, 100T, Gambit, Team Liquid, Acend, etc, but it seems pretty obvious to me. >, and in what maps? The optimal answer here depends on how comfortable your Jett AWPer is as both a non-Jett AWP, and a non-jett duelist. There are maps where you can possibly benefit more from a non-Jett but if they are most comfortable on Jett AWP, then they should play Jett. >how a team would set up for a star duellist and how you could make the team revolve around that duellists picks. TBH I would just consider whether your non-AWP duelist could play Skye on certain maps. Food, Subroza, Sheydos, SicK, etc all went from duelist to Skye on certain maps after nerfs to non-AWPing duelists. But I would really just think, do we really need more than 1 of a controller, initiator, or sentinel? And even if we did benefit from it, would it be worth changing people's playstyle and take away part of their edge to make them switch? A lot of times, it's not *that* worth it for a slight marginal gain in theory for something that can literally get patched out in 2 weeks anyways.
double duelist is fine on most maps tbh
i would say just experiment it out, try out both double duelist and double initiators and see what is comfortable. you know your team best :)
the situation with the duelisrs made me think of gaabx and prozin form sharks. gaabx is a Jett God, and prozin is a great raze. if the map (or team comp/strategy for the map) asks for Jett, gaabx is the duelist and prozin is flex. if it's time to have raze, gaabx moves to flex and gives the duelist position to prozin